- 1 week ago
This week on The 77 Percent, we dive into the realities of modern relationships across Africa. We explore a question: should you marry for love before achieving financial stability, or wait until you're more secure?
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:05When it comes to love, do you think the logic works?
00:07You don't even have to have a PhD.
00:08There's no logic in love.
00:10I feel like...
00:11Hey, you'd be surprised to get a PhD and when it comes to love, you're like the most silly
00:14person ever.
00:20You know, everyone keeps talking about finding their perfect match, but whose responsibility
00:24is it?
00:25Is it your parents, community, or even social media?
00:29Whose is it?
00:30Well, if you think dating apps have replaced traditional meetups and matchmaking in Africa,
00:35think again.
00:36My name is Fatih Elika Moulouchi.
00:38And I am Rachel Nduwati.
00:41What do you think?
00:42I mean, traditional dating, modern dating.
00:44Well, I will say dating in this day and age is very, very tough.
00:48It's tough out here from what I'm hearing from friends because, you know, the previous way
00:54of dating, the way our parents dated, for example, was very different.
00:56Writing letters, finding each other.
01:00You know, they used to like also like tell each other, let's meet in the cinema.
01:02And then they just go to the cinema.
01:04The banter bar.
01:05Exactly.
01:05And they didn't like have this whole texting.
01:08They didn't have social media to look up to.
01:11But now it's a bit of a tough one because everyone is like modeling this by a social media.
01:15They're looking at their relationship, they're posting and it complicates everything.
01:19I agree.
01:20That does complicate it.
01:21And for most people, modern dating could work.
01:24But for some, it's really a lot of giving so much of yourself and it's physically and
01:28mentally exhausting.
01:30And I think that's also fair enough because when you look at it, the intent is not communicated
01:34at the outset, right?
01:36You go into it and maybe in the long term, you can finally decide if this is a committed
01:41relationship that you want to pursue.
01:43Whereas traditionally, which could also even be a courtship, the intent is discussed from
01:48the outset.
01:48The end goal is clear.
01:49The end goal is clear for everyone.
01:52And you know exactly what you're doing even before going out.
01:55But that's the thing, though, you know, like you mentioned.
01:57And I think it's really tough at the moment to merge this too, to merge traditional dating
02:03and modern day dating, because at the end of the day, people are still like, we're still
02:06Africans.
02:06We still have African culture thinking about it still.
02:09And we're like, OK, so we're both earning.
02:12What are we going to do?
02:12Who's going to pay for the bills?
02:14Where are we?
02:14Let's go to Nigeria for now and find this out from favor.
02:18Where are people meeting their partners?
02:20And is it through apps or traditional meetups?
02:23If you're single in Lagos, where do you actually meet someone these days?
02:28Through friends, at work, at church?
02:31Or are we all just on dating apps and sliding into each other's DMs?
02:35I would actually say social gathering.
02:38Social gathering, where we can meet face-to-face.
02:41I would prefer probably the walkway, the social gathering, like a lounge, something like that.
02:46And in fact, I believe that what works for A will not work for B.
02:50But I prefer social media.
02:52I can't go on a dating app.
02:55It's very risky and all.
02:58So I feel like probably it will just happen.
03:01Like, you can literally meet anybody.
03:03So long as it's the right person.
03:05You can meet someone like in the school, in church.
03:11I would prefer meeting with your friends, social gatherings generally.
03:14I met the person I was dating back then, being human.
03:18And mostly friends linking us up and all that.
03:21Well, church, social gatherings, true friends.
03:24More social gatherings and then true training, like training section, volleyball training.
03:29You know, first dates, we always say these are interview compatibility tests.
03:33You're just weighing the waters to see who fits where.
03:35And I think in an African setting, of course, it's a diverse continent.
03:40There's going to be different languages.
03:41There's going to be different forms of culture.
03:43So trying to merge those two sometimes, especially in this generation where people are really like exposed to education.
03:50They really tend to, you know, just get along and look for what works for them and see where it
03:55ends.
03:56I mean, there are clearly a lot of factors that people consider before going into a serious relationship, as we
04:01see here.
04:02I mean, I've seen people who have considered tribes and, yeah, I've seen people who do not really care about
04:08the tribe.
04:09At the end of the day, we've heard people say different things, you know, values.
04:12Some say they consider religion as well.
04:14But we even have the caste system where you cannot marry a member of a certain caste.
04:18Explain, please.
04:19I think it's a very long story.
04:20Explain because what?
04:22It's like a hierarchy of where you have the nobles down to the slaves.
04:25I mean, this is a very old concept, traditional concept.
04:28And I think now it's changing because a lot of people no longer subscribe to that.
04:32Certain families don't subscribe to it, but there are other families that take it very seriously, especially in certain, but
04:37in certain tribes, they take the caste very seriously.
04:40Yeah.
04:41And I think it's also a matter of compatibility because dating is hard in itself.
04:44And so, like, whether you or not you follow somebody's culture, that's a matter of preference.
04:48But there's also like the external noise that is also existent.
04:52I believe it takes more than self-awareness to get to that point of saying culture and tradition don't matter.
04:59I mean, Lagos is also a very big city and there are different and diverse people coming from different cultures
05:04and from different areas in Nigeria.
05:06And so it's pretty much easy and understandable if people have this open mind in their decision making.
05:12But can we say the same of other cities?
05:15So we want to try something different.
05:17Let's go out of Lagos and head over to the north there in Kano to see what people there have
05:21to say about this.
05:23I can marry a Arab person, not Igbo.
05:25Igbo can never marry an Arab person.
05:26I've not even seen when it has happened before.
05:29As a young lady from Kano State, can you marry a guy from Anambra or Adwekiti?
05:36We also want to be marrying within our own culture so that we understand each other more better.
05:41Some families even marry from within the family, not even within the family.
05:47You just have to marry maybe your cousin.
05:48For a very long time, many people believed that women from Kano State must marry either from Fulani or Aousa
05:56community.
05:57Is that true?
05:58We actually expose ourselves.
06:00We marry out of our community, out of our society.
06:04But some don't.
06:06They prefer marrying people within Kano.
06:08But society is changing and many young people are beginning to challenge those expectations.
06:15Yes, nowadays they are free too, but in all those days they are not actually.
06:20Ladies and gentlemen, do you think inter-tribal marriage will help to unite Nigeria?
06:27If Aousa can marry Ibu, then Ibu can marry Aousa in Nigeria, then we will have a peace, no any
06:38tribalism.
06:39Across Africa, many young people are trying to balance between tradition and personal choice.
06:45And for some, marriage has become part of that conversation.
06:51Well, marriage is indeed part of that conversation.
06:53And I was listening to Samson in that report, and I remember when I was young, right, we had this
06:58sort of like couple, very renowned couple in Kenya from two different, main different communities.
07:05And they were really famous.
07:07There was Otieno and there was Womboy.
07:08And they really were this model of, you know, an inter-tribal marriage.
07:14And they sort of like sort of had to make it work.
07:17And the argument was that, you know, the whole tribalism thing, that's colonial thinking.
07:22Because if you look at colonization, right, the British use divide and rule.
07:26So they used to look at the tribes that are really not interacting well.
07:29And then they're like, you know, these tribes are actually like irreconcilable.
07:33So that means then that we can spread bad news about these tribes.
07:37But post-colonial thinking wise, I think Kenya is also very progressive in terms of like inter-tribal relationships.
07:43It's good to see those progressive stories as well.
07:45So people are very intentional in setting out very clearly what is going to work for them, but also for
07:51the family.
07:51And I think that is also a little bit difficult.
07:54And it's really sad because love is a tricky game, you know.
07:58You know, it's also like it depends on the person.
08:00Are you like a much more like emotional, not really logical person?
08:05Because I feel like you...
08:06When it comes to love, you think logic works?
08:09You don't even have to have like a PhD.
08:10There's no logic in love.
08:12I feel like...
08:13Hey, you'd be surprised to get a PhD when it comes to love.
08:15You're like the most silly person ever.
08:17True, true.
08:18But you know who knows?
08:19You know who knows?
08:20Maybe it's a matchmaker.
08:22Because I think that, you know, people really have this sort of like attribute towards dating apps.
08:28They think that dating apps are really not cool.
08:30But they're trying to look for other ways.
08:32And this is matchmaking.
08:34Yeah.
08:34And I think it's actually very fair if someone wants to be clear about what they're looking for.
08:38The values, the tradition.
08:40If someone considers their tradition, I think that also should be noted.
08:43If someone considers religion, noted.
08:45Values, noted.
08:46But then how can we bring these things together to form a match?
08:50Through a matchmaker.
08:52It's mostly transactional.
08:54In this generation, everybody had made it seem like to date.
08:59You need to date a boy that has money.
09:02To be in a happy relationship here.
09:05I mean, you can literally do everything for the woman.
09:07The woman will still do the shit you won't do.
09:08I mean, still it's the same thing for the guy.
09:10Well, generally it's a mess.
09:11People are afraid of getting hurt.
09:14People have insecurities they haven't healed from.
09:16So, like, the dating pool, I mean, it's messy.
09:18It's crazy.
09:19People are cheating.
09:20They are not honest.
09:21From dating apps to social media relationships, many say trust is becoming harder to find.
09:28So, could traditional matchmaking and family-assisted introductions offer an alternative?
09:33Most people come into the platform to get matchmaking.
09:37I've tried one relationship or the other.
09:40And when they see that it's not working, they look at it.
09:43Okay, let's see if we can try matchmaking.
09:45Let's see if a private person can come, match us together, and then let's have discussion.
09:50People are now modernizing it.
09:54It's now about, are they compatible?
09:57Please, can you get us someone that is compatible or that is likely to be compatible with this particular person?
10:03So, it's not going to end.
10:05But with many young people describing today's dating scene as confusing and transactional,
10:09could they be open to traditional ways of finding their true-life partners?
10:14Dating for marriage works, number one.
10:17My mom will not come to me and tell me that.
10:19After I get one kind of husband for you, I don't even know this mother**** for me anywhere.
10:23I actually don't believe that they actually dated back in those days.
10:26I think they all did this matchmaking stuff.
10:29If my parents pick me analogy that he's rich and he doesn't beat women, he takes care of the women
10:35he loves,
10:35I'm down.
10:36I really don't mind at all, as long as he's a good person.
10:38And for some singles, the growing interest in matchmaking reflects a desire for commitment and more purposeful relationships.
10:47There are parents that come to our platform to ask and say,
10:50oh, please, could you match my daughter?
10:53Could you match my son?
10:55And at the end of the day, they live happily ever after.
10:57So, it is an opportunity for you to believe, to accept that matchmaking still works.
11:04All you just need to do is to be intentional about yourself.
11:07True, true. You know, I was watching her and I remembered, like, sometimes when I go on TikTok,
11:11there's so many matchmakers on TikTok live.
11:13Really?
11:13Yes, it's like a gig economy.
11:15And, like, people just...
11:16And I think people trust them more because I think the idea is that the participants are always, like,
11:21turning on their cameras.
11:22So, it's very hard to be cutfished.
11:24I think it's safe to say that the dating pool is messy and that this generation is experiencing a dating
11:30fatigue
11:30due to lack of trust and commitment issues.
11:33You know, are people willing to compromise?
11:34Are people...
11:35Because I think it's just difficult to get that perfect person.
11:38And I think with a matchmaker, it's actually good because, you know,
11:41people always think that the other person is the problem.
11:44So, maybe the matchmaker actually helps you to understand, okay, so you have this problem
11:49and he also has this problem or she has this problem.
11:52I mean, what I see here is young people being open to trying new things.
11:56Well, the matchmaker also gives you a sense of security because you know what you want.
12:00Now, it's just a matter of compatibility and seeing if it works.
12:03I think that and I believe that marriage is still a very important cultural and social milestone in Africa.
12:11But young people just want to do it on their own terms and timelines.
12:14And we head into this conversation even further because Edith was there in Ghana
12:20to open this discussion about marriage and expectations even further.
12:24For men, I think money is always top of mind.
12:26But for you, before you got married, was money a consideration at all?
12:30Before we got married, I had to know whether he's responsible
12:33and then he has a job that he can take care of me before I agreed that we should get
12:38married.
12:39So, financial responsibility, yes, I took that into consideration.
12:43What about for you?
12:44Did you need to be financially secure before you committed to become married?
12:49No, I don't have anything doing.
12:52It's my husband that is taking care of me 100%.
12:54The husband is working and is able to provide the basic needs.
12:59You are okay to go.
13:00I didn't have to consider whether I am working and I can take care of myself before I got married.
13:05No.
13:06So, if, say, Ibrahim didn't have a job, would you have married him?
13:11No.
13:12Oh, Ibrahim.
13:16Lucky for you, you had a job.
13:18But was finances a huge consideration for you?
13:21For me personally, no.
13:23So, as far as you are able to take care of yourself and the basic needs, I think you are
13:26good to go.
13:26But it's interesting here because Mariam is saying that for her it was a really important thing,
13:32but for you, not so much.
13:33So, what was the value for you?
13:35As far as the things that were important before you got married, what was at the top?
13:38So, for me, the first is character.
13:40The second is that we all agree with each other.
13:43And then the third is we are aligned with our goals, our character and fate.
13:48Okay.
13:49So, Musia, I want to come to you for a second because you actually were married.
13:54So, to what extent was wealth a factor of consideration before you decided to take the vow?
14:01Before you decide to take a vow in a marriage, you have to be financially stable because if unexpected happens
14:12to the man, what would you do?
14:14Will you ask for help outside or what are you going to do?
14:18So, that debate right there was in Kumasi in Ghana.
14:21And this is actually a very predominantly Christian society but still has a Muslim population of up to 20%.
14:28You know, money conversations in an African household have never been easy.
14:31And it's even uncomfortable when it comes to like dating because like most, in some societies, I don't know about
14:37in the Gambia, but in Kenya, like people are more expressive about money.
14:40But if you look at like the East African perspective, people like don't really love talking about money.
14:45And it's important to talk about it.
14:47But money will always be a conversation and sometimes also like paying for a date.
14:51These are tangible proofs of affection in the African society.
14:55Dating in itself is also hard because in the African setting, people don't have jobs.
14:59They are trying.
15:00This is still the generation that's so much unemployed.
15:03So, dating is even harder for people.
15:05Yeah, and expensive.
15:06But I'm also there and wondering, we always say that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
15:12What's the way to a woman's heart?
15:14Like no one is ready for that conversation, really.
15:16We always, always prepare women that you have to give.
15:19That's true.
15:20You have to convince.
15:21Like you have to just please.
15:22How is the man supposed to please a woman?
15:24If the woman asks for her gold and diamond, she's termed a gold digger.
15:28How else are you working towards making her happy?
15:30You know, sometimes if you think about it, like I spoke with somebody the other day and they told me
15:35that they do have like joint accounts.
15:37But the woman has like a separate hidden account.
15:41And so she said that this hidden account, it's for security just in case something happens.
15:46And women are always told this.
15:47And she also said that her money is her money.
15:50And the boyfriend's money is their money.
15:53In the African context, this is always how it is.
15:57Because chances are the patriarchy still exists and women are still going to be like very vulnerable.
16:02They're not going to get those opportunities.
16:03You know, of course, we know that women also need to have something going on for themselves.
16:08But, you know, let's delve a little bit more into the financial aspect because there are a lot of expectations.
16:13And I think finance is a very critical aspect because clearly the lives have to be fed and they also
16:19have to be sheltered.
16:20But let's see how that is panning out in the debate here.
16:23They were talking about money issues, but not for God's.
16:27Before going into the marriage, we made mention for better for worse.
16:30But why are you always wanted to enjoy the better part but not the worse parts?
16:35This is the case whereby you are depending on the man fully.
16:38And then anything or everything concerning your social life, anything that you wanted him to take in charge of it.
16:46But don't forget, he is a human being.
16:48As times goes for him, I'm getting tired of how he's spending on you.
16:51So why not, at the moment that he'll be giving you money, you'll be saving some of the money, then
16:56you use it for your other needs.
16:58My sister made mention of if the person is taking fully care of you 100%.
17:02That is where the abuse comes because he sees his ads.
17:04He is the one providing you.
17:06You have nothing to do for yourself.
17:07I will always encourage ladies, that kind of attitude or kind of behavior, they should stop it.
17:13Because normally, they buy the abusive behavior of the man on them.
17:19Because after all, without him, she can't survive.
17:23That sounds like victim blaming.
17:25I'm not so sure I like that.
17:27It's compulsory for the men to do that because that's their job.
17:32They have to take good care of the ladies.
17:34All right.
17:35Yeah.
17:36To me, it's not compulsory.
17:39As a lady, you have to have value of yourself.
17:42Well, Rachel, marriage is a contract.
17:44And depending on where you are, there are terms and conditions.
17:48If we say, okay, the man shouldn't do it.
17:51Let's be honest.
17:51Let's be fair.
17:52If the man should not do it, then the body and curly would rest on the woman.
17:56It has to rest on someone.
17:58If they have kids.
17:59And I read a study right now, actually, like in the African continent, there's a lot of people who are
18:04choosing not to get married.
18:05And marriage rates are declining.
18:07But what is not declining is cohabiting.
18:09So people are choosing to move in together, do the whole thing, do the whole boyfriend and girlfriend thing, but
18:15not get married.
18:16But also financial experts actually warn that if you move in together and you don't have a plan, then it's
18:22the woman who's going to carry that shoulder at the end of the day.
18:25And if they have kids, then it's even going to be worse.
18:28We've seen that.
18:29Because there's no documentation of this.
18:30I think that's why in Islam it's very clear.
18:32And I wanted to bring that up because the people that we've seen in that debate, you know, we've seen
18:36the Muslim girls, we've seen the Christians as well.
18:38And you can hear them and their different perspectives.
18:41It is because of the basis that they're talking from.
18:43In Islam, there's something called the mahr.
18:45The mahr has to be paid before the marriage is even finalized.
18:49It's something, it's a gift for the woman.
18:52It's for her taking.
18:53It's not for the family.
18:54Nobody can take that from the woman.
18:55This is for her.
18:55It belongs to the woman.
18:57But who negotiates for this?
18:58She can negotiate with the husband and they decide what exactly she wants for her tawa.
19:03But the tawa, which is the mahr, has to be something of value.
19:06So either gold or something like an asset.
19:10And the reason why that is, is because in case of eventuality, maybe in the case of divorce or death,
19:15she can use that to rebuild.
19:17Anything she wants to do out of her own accord, there's the basis for mutual understanding and communication.
19:22And that has been given to the couple to decide how they want to rule.
19:26But you cannot abuse her financially.
19:28Or physically.
19:29That is a no-go area.
19:30There you have it.
19:31What's the best way, guys, to settle this as a couple?
19:35If you do decide to get married again, is money something that you will put at the top?
19:39Or is it something that you won't really consider?
19:42No, I won't put money at the top.
19:44But what I will consider is issues still, I'm working, but issues still take care of me.
19:50My money is a security for me.
19:55And also, it's a buffer for the family.
19:58In case of unexpected happens, I chip in.
20:03What happens if, bad luck, he loses his income?
20:07Would you still stay with him?
20:09I will.
20:10Because we married because we loved each other and we had shared goals.
20:15So we are all working towards the goal.
20:17And as we are going, if we fall off, that does not mean I should leave.
20:22I will try to pick him up, then we go together.
20:24Love, I will define as something that you do, no matter what, you do to make your partner feel comfortable.
20:33So love is you making your partner comfortable, not leaving him behind.
20:38So if he fall off, I'll pick him up, then we go together.
20:41We always saw, like, happily ever after.
20:44I like the idea.
20:45But here's the thing, we don't know what happens in the after.
20:48And in the after, that's where, like, life really happens.
20:51You start understanding this man's habits, for example.
20:54You start understanding whether this person actually snores.
20:57Or are you, like, you get those icks or quirks and you're like, is love still enough?
21:01And then also, like, the financial thing that we talked about before.
21:04So, like, all these things, you need, like, mutual understanding and support.
21:07I'm a big fan of mutual understanding and support.
21:11I'm a big fan of be clear about your intentions and set your goals earlier on and reach an agreement.
21:16Of course, now we're in a modern society.
21:19You know, there's so much passion, compassion that we can give and support in the household.
21:23Because at the end of the day, this is the only way you can face the reality.
21:27Because after the love, there is real life.
21:30And, you know, we always say that love heals, but also love hurts.
21:33But also, there are people who are also trying to make it work,
21:36despite the pressure from culture, religion, social media, society, whatever.
21:41And they choose themselves above all these things.
21:44Have a look at this.
21:46Like, no, no, no, no, no, you know, this is our daughter.
21:49We want our daughter back.
21:50Actually, they wanted to take me back to Mombasa that day.
21:53I'm a member of the St. Hildegard Choir.
21:55I really enjoy praising and just singing in the church.
21:59When my family found out that I was with a non-Muslim man, they got so mad and furious,
22:06especially my mom.
22:08She didn't take it easy.
22:09I knew it was serious when after my aunties and my sisters told me to stop hanging out
22:17with that Christian friend of yours, and I was like, no, he's such a cool dude, you guys don't know.
22:24We face a lot of, should I call it backlash?
22:30So, yeah, a lot of, you know, friends will tell you, oh, it can't work.
22:34It can never work, you know.
22:37Because that's what they believe.
22:39That's what they were made to believe.
22:41What they don't understand is we are changing, we are growing.
22:44When a Christian man marries a Muslim woman, religious convention is that he first converts to Islam
22:51and for the marriage to follow Islamic rites.
22:54The conversation about him converting came up even before the marriage.
23:01They came and they found out that I was actually pregnant before marriage,
23:07and that's when they started forcing him to convert.
23:09So, I told him, if I'm Muslim and I'm not comfortable to convert, to be a Christian,
23:17why would I make you convert to be a Muslim?
23:20You're not willing to do it.
23:22When Shifa's family learned she would not ask Justin to convert, the reaction was rather severe.
23:28He was so pressured.
23:30Because I had to choose between my family and him, I was actually put in that situation where I was
23:36told you have to choose between us or him.
23:40So, we had a knock on the door.
23:42She opened.
23:44After she opened, she turned at me and was looking at me with this look she looked at me with.
23:50And I just knew.
23:52I asked them, why come at night?
23:55Like, why come at night?
23:57It's not like I'm running away.
23:59It's not like we are hiding.
24:00And they were like, no, no, no, no, no, you know, this is our daughter.
24:04We want our daughter back.
24:05Actually, they wanted to take me back to Mombasa that day.
24:08Yeah, so they wanted to.
24:09That night.
24:10Without their family's blessing, Justin and Shifa chose a civil union,
24:15skipping the traditional and religious ceremonies that define most Kenyan weddings.
24:19We thought it could be neutral and also it could be legal at the same time.
24:26Theirs is still a rather rare story, but it's proof that two faiths can share one home.
24:31So, we just think about those days and we laugh about it because, well, it was tough.
24:37But now it's just a story that we can laugh about.
24:40When you love someone, you're patient with them.
24:42And I think that is what comes to it.
24:44Like, when you love someone, you understand them, you empathize with them,
24:47you understand their situation and you're willing to help.
24:50Previous generations, like my grandmother, for example, they had a great love story.
24:54They were married for so long.
24:56And I look at now, like, it's hard to hear that people have been married for so, so long.
25:00And it's because there's this whole, like, comparison trap or, like, the performative trap,
25:05which is also a sad thing to see.
25:07We are in a very difficult world.
25:09And no one's society has the answers because we've got different kinds of communities as well.
25:14Every society, like, people have different backgrounds, people have different values,
25:17different things that you're looking out for.
25:19At the end of the day, I think what works is coming together and deciding for yourselves
25:23if that is very important for you.
25:26I think in the end as well, no one has the perfect answer.
25:29Yeah, but we also want to know, are you in love?
25:31Where are you finding that love from?
25:33Do you have any advice?
25:34Be part of our conversation at the 77% and follow us on our social media platforms.
25:40We're looking forward to hear from you.
25:42And that brings us to the end of the show today.
25:44I've had a good time.
25:45This was interesting.
25:47This was interesting.
25:48Thank you so much for watching.
25:49My name is Fateli Kamuloshi.
25:51And I am Rachel Nduati.
25:52Until next time.
25:53Bye-bye.
25:55Bye.
26:04Bye.
26:06Bye.
26:06Bye.
26:08Bye.
26:10Bye.
26:10Bye.
26:10For more information, visit www.fema.org
Comments