AUDACY NEWS' True Crime Roundup: Looking at the Lindsay Clancy case, Nick Reiner updates, Derek Chauvin and more

Name: AUDACY NEWS' True Crime Roundup: Looking at the Lindsay Clancy case, Nick Reiner updates, Derek Chauvin and more
Uploaded: 2026-08-26T18:06:30+00:00
Duration: 1 h 2 min 50 s
Channel: Audacy News

00:00:05This is a true crime roundup from the On Deadline podcast. We explore crime stories reported on by

00:00:12Odyssey's radio newsrooms across the country. I'm your host, Lauren Berry. This week, we're

00:00:19looking into the latest developments in the case of Nick Reiner, who is accused of killing his

00:00:25parents, beloved Hollywood power couple Rob and Michelle Reiner. He's been trying to access the

00:00:31trust fund his parents set up for him to pay for his defense. But is that a violation of the

00:00:38Slayer

00:00:38rule? We'll look into that. Another case we're diving into in this episode also involves family

00:00:47murder. It's the Lindsay Clancy case out of Massachusetts. Clancy is a mother accused of

00:00:53killing her three children, and the details of her case have opened up a discussion around

00:00:58postpartum depression and the more rare postpartum psychosis condition. We'll also touch on the

00:01:06investigation into the death of actress Hayden Panettiere, though crime is not currently suspected

00:01:12in that case. Before we get into those cases, we'll cover some crime updates from across the U.S.,

00:01:20including Derek Chauvin's attempt to get his 2020 murder conviction for the death of George Floyd

00:01:26overturned. Then we'll hear discussions about parents getting punished when their children commit crimes

00:01:32and about school shooter drills. First, we have the case of an 18-year-old accused of killing his

00:01:40girlfriend, a recent high school graduate who was headed to California, where she was set to play

00:01:46soccer for Penn West. Here's the Big K morning show out of Odyssey Station KDKA in Pittsburgh with

00:01:54the story. State police say a college soccer player was killed Wednesday night by her boyfriend. His

00:02:00mother is accused of trying to help him cover it up. 18-year-old Royce Moser is charged with homicide

00:02:06in the death of 18-year-old Caroline Heintz, a recent graduate of Peters High School and a student

00:02:11to Penn West California. Moser's mother, Rachel, is charged with hindering apprehension, evidence

00:02:17tampering, and more. The DA says Royce and Caroline were talking about the future of their

00:02:22relationship when he stabbed her in the chest. Moser allegedly put Caroline's body in her vehicle

00:02:28and drove to his mother's house where attempts were made to clean up the blood. Investigators say

00:02:33Moser, followed by his mother, drove to California Borough and left his dead girlfriend and her SUV in a

00:02:39parking lot. Trooper Rocco Gagliardi. We're talking about an 18-year-old girl that was ready to start

00:02:46life and now she can no longer get to pursue her dreams, which is really unfortunate. Court paperwork

00:02:51says Moser told investigators a demon told him to stab his girlfriend. Odyssey Station KYW News Radio in

00:03:00Philadelphia reported on sentencing for men convicted of killing a rapper in 2020. Like in our last dispatch,

00:03:08the victim was just 18 years old when he died. Two men convicted in the murder of an 18-year

00:03:13-old

00:03:13rapper six years ago in West Philly learned their fate today. Donovan Williams will spend the rest of

00:03:18his life in prison for his role in the July 2020 shooting death of Amir Johnson Day. Baj Dini was

00:03:25sentenced to 13 and a half to 42 years. District Attorney Larry Krasner says this was a long time coming.

00:03:31Here we are six years after the homicide and finally there is a verdict and finally there

00:03:37is a consequence. The shooting happened on July 5th of 2020 at a home on 61st Street near Master Street.

00:03:44The DA says it took more than 15 months to track down one of the defendants and three years to

00:03:48find

00:03:48the other. Day's mother says she's grateful for the persistence of investigators. And I just wanted to

00:03:54thank everybody who put in all of this time to give my son justice. His birthday is this month so

00:04:00this

00:04:01is a perfect happy birthday for him. Krasner's office still seeking information on this shooting

00:04:07though saying one or two more people may have been involved.

00:04:13One of the most reported on and discussed crime cases of 2020 was the killing of black man George Floyd

00:04:21at the hands of white police officer Derek Chauvin in Minneapolis. Chauvin was convicted in connection

00:04:28with the death and is currently serving concurrent state and federal sentences that are both more than

00:04:3420 years. Now he's seeking to have his state murder conviction overturned. Odyssey's WCCO News and Talk

00:04:43in the Twin Cities has the details. Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin is again asking for

00:04:50his state murder conviction in the 2020 killing of George Floyd to be overturned. Chauvin and his

00:04:56legal team argue the assignment of Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison to prosecute the case was

00:05:00illegitimate. They also argue that Chauvin's due process rights were violated because the Hennepin

00:05:05County District Court failed to convene a grand jury before any charging decision. Previous legal efforts by

00:05:11Chauvin have been unsuccessful including when the Supreme Court rejected an appeal of his conviction for

00:05:16second-degree murder. Two other attempts for post-conviction relief have also been rejected.

00:05:22Mark Fry, News Talk 830 WCCO. Chauvin right now is simultaneously serving a 21-year federal sentence for

00:05:28violating Floyd's civil rights and a 22-and-a-half-year state sentence for second-degree murder.

00:05:34In Detroit, Odyssey Station WWJ News Radio provided an update on the case of a man accused of killing

00:05:42multiple family members. 25-year-old Livonia man accused of killing multiple family members in

00:05:49June appeared in court for a competency hearing this morning and is now seeking an independent

00:05:55review. 25-year-old Gage Pierce, the man accused of shooting and killing his mother, father, brother,

00:06:02and brother's girlfriend in their Livonia home in June, has been ruled incompetent to stand trial,

00:06:08but will now undergo an independent review to see if he can be ruled competent. At this morning's

00:06:13hearing in 16th District Court in Livonia, Pierce spoke on his own behalf as to why he thinks he

00:06:19should be ruled competent. What I would like to speak on has been falsely misconstrued in those reports

00:06:27that my expressions have been unduly limited in the sense of, firstly, I am confined to a space where

00:06:37it's a sub-day room in Section 2C of this jail, where I am stuck in such a shielded space

00:06:48with lack of sunlight.

00:06:51Pierce also said instances of him laughing don't reflect his competency in this

00:06:57case. There was talk about his ability to work with his attorney as well, and Pierce ended up

00:07:02requesting a new attorney at the end of the hearing. About a dozen family and friends were in attendance

00:07:07for the proceedings, which will now be picked up on October 29th, with Pierce facing four counts of

00:07:13first-degree murder. In Livonia, Luke Sloan, WWJ Newsradio. Now we'll hear some discussion related to

00:07:21the parents of children who commit crimes and school shootings. Two issues that have intersected

00:07:28in at least two cases. The Oxford school shooting committed by 15-year-old Ethan Crumbly in Michigan,

00:07:36and the Appalachee high school shooting committed by 14-year-old Colt Gray in Georgia. In both cases,

00:07:42the young teens' parents have also faced legal ramifications for the tragedies, along with their

00:07:48sons. Tommy Tucker of Odyssey Station WWL in New Orleans, Louisiana, discussed parental responsibility

00:07:56when their children commit crimes with an expert this week. Let's listen in.

00:08:07Dane Cialino, professor of law at Loyola. Morning, Dane. How are you?

00:08:11Morning, Tommy. Just fine.

00:08:12Talking about today, parental responsibility when it comes to kids and committing crimes. What does

00:08:19the Louisiana law say, Dane? At what point is a parent responsible for a crime their kid commits?

00:08:25Yeah, I mean, it's a tough question that we see with prosecutions across the country,

00:08:32but in Louisiana, a child's crime isn't automatically the parent's crime. But if a parent

00:08:40knowingly permits or aids or is criminally negligent in supervising a child, and the child engages

00:08:50in delinquent conduct, then there can be criminal consequences on the parent. But it's got to have

00:08:57that level of culpability for the parent. There's got to be some criminal negligence or knowledge or

00:09:02willful conduct where the parent's allowing the minor to engage in conduct that's specified in

00:09:11the statute. Things like violating curfew, missing school, underage drinking, having guns, those sorts of

00:09:18things.

00:09:19I was going to ask you, criminally negligent seems like a somewhat subjective term. Does the law lay out

00:09:24what specifically a parent can, I guess I start to say, do or fail to do to get them in

00:09:31trouble as

00:09:32far as the kid's behavior is concerned?

00:09:37Well, criminal negligence is one of those indeterminate terms in the law that we know

00:09:44that negligence means that a person does or fails to do something that a reasonable person would have

00:09:50done under similar circumstances. But in criminal cases, it's even more indeterminate and stringent in

00:09:58the sense that it's got to not be ordinary negligence, but a gross deviation from the standard

00:10:05of care of what a reasonable person would do. So I just threw out a lot of legal jargon there,

00:10:11but didn't really answer a lot of questions. That's the tough question presented to judges and juries

00:10:18when they have to evaluate whether someone was negligent in either a criminal or a civil case.

00:10:22Back to that reasonable person kind of thing?

00:10:26Back to the reasonable person standard of care. Yeah, it's something that I'm talking about today

00:10:32in my contracts class. It's something that comes up in all areas of the law. It's fairly, from a legal

00:10:39scholarship standpoint, fairly controversial, imposing criminal liability for just mere negligence.

00:10:45When somebody didn't know of a risk, but they should have known of the risk. But that's what

00:10:51happens in these child supervision cases. And I'm just wondering, Dane, does the fact that a parent

00:10:59is held responsible for the child's crime, does that lessen the culpability on the part of the child,

00:11:05or are we punishing everybody here?

00:11:09No. Children are held responsible in juvenile court for their crimes every day. So this is

00:11:17nothing that lessens the child's responsibility for juvenile delinquency, but the parents

00:11:24are held accountable for not adequately supervising.

00:11:28There's no sliding scale of, okay, Junior did this, but the parents didn't do that,

00:11:32so therefore Junior's not really responsible for that. None of that happens at all.

00:11:38Yeah, and in fact, it seems that, to me anyway, that this parental criminal responsibility is almost

00:11:45a lightning strike. There are, you only see it really in these high-profile cases, these school

00:11:52shooter cases, the mass shootings. You don't really see it for ordinary juvenile delinquency,

00:12:01of which there is a lot of in urban centers all over the United States. You don't see a lot

00:12:06of

00:12:07efforts by prosecutors in those kind of, I hate to say it, but ordinary run-of-the-mill cases of

00:12:13juvenile delinquency. But if it's a high-profile case, and it's investigated, and the parents are

00:12:22found to be somewhat culpable, or very culpable, then you see the prosecutions.

00:12:26I remember doing an interview with somebody, and I don't remember the details of it, but it was

00:12:32basically, they called the police on their own child because they couldn't do anything. It's like,

00:12:36I don't know, he's out of control. Help me out here. Would that be a mitigating factor

00:12:40if the parents had done something like that beforehand?

00:12:44Oh, very much so, yeah. Yeah, very much so. Any real effort by parents to get help or assistance from

00:12:52law enforcement or social workers is going to look to be looked upon by prosecutors quite

00:13:00favorably. What about the civil aspect of this?

00:13:03That's a lot easier. Parents are responsible for the torts committed by their children,

00:13:13and they can even be liable without being negligent themselves. So we are almost strictly liable for

00:13:22the torts committed by our children, and there's often typically insurance coverage for that sort of

00:13:28thing, but that's a lot easier case to make, and you do see that those sorts of lawsuits brought more

00:13:34often by personal injury lawyers. And apparently there's no, I would think there's no floor on

00:13:40that, but what about the ceiling? Is it the age of majority 17? Yeah, I mean, once a child is

00:13:4718 years

00:13:48old, he's responsible for his own torts, and his parents aren't going to be responsible for those.

00:13:54So, you know, that's why some parents have been known to emancipate their children in an effort to

00:14:01avoid liability for torts committed by wayward children. You don't see it often, but it's

00:14:07something that parents have thought about. You read my mind, because that's what I was going to ask

00:14:12you. What is the legal age to emancipate a child in Louisiana?

00:14:17Ah, well, I mean, there's judicial emancipation, there's emancipation by juridical act. I'd have to

00:14:23research the exact ages. Again, it's not something you really see very often, but it is an option.

00:14:31Primarily, that's to avoid liability. A parent would do that, right, for the most part?

00:14:37That's right. And courts are going to be reluctant to do that, because the law assumes that parents

00:14:43are going to be responsible for rearing their children. And by emancipating a kid, that's

00:14:48essentially saying the parents have given up on parental authority.

00:14:53Is it in practice more of a threat than, like you're talking about a lightning bolt? It seems like

00:14:59when, rather than, I know they got a study that the University of Nebraska-Lincoln did

00:15:05with police chiefs and prosecuting attorneys, they said it's not really effective, but they

00:15:09do bring it out, I guess, sometimes politically, when it's like, we're going to charge your parents

00:15:13on this because they were negligent, when in fact, like you're saying, the high-profile cases

00:15:17get the attention, but not the everyday cases of juvenile delinquency.

00:15:23That's exactly right. And, I mean, that's really no way to run a criminal justice system

00:15:29is just to pick out the cases that are on TV for prosecution. But in this unusual area

00:15:37of criminal responsibility, that is something that does seem to drive some of these prosecutions.

00:15:42Schools across the U.S. have active shooter drills to prepare staff and students for potential

00:15:49school shooting incidents. According to gun violence prevention organization Everytown, USA,

00:15:56over 95 percent of American schools have active shooter drills. Following the 1999 Columbine High

00:16:04School massacre in Colorado, these shooter drills have become more common. However, some question how

00:16:11effective the drills actually are. And there has been some evidence that suggests they are

00:16:18detrimental to the mental health of students who go through them. In Kansas, a new law just changed

00:16:24the way these drills work. Dana Wright, Scott Parks, and Sam Stevie III of the Dana and Parks Show

00:16:31on Odyssey Station KMBZ in Kansas City discuss the news.

00:16:37Story here from Channel 5. Kansas schools cannot conduct an active shooter drill without first

00:16:43notifying parents and families have the right to opt their children out. Under a new state law

00:16:49taking effect this year, the Students Safe at School Act applies to every public and private school

00:16:56in Kansas. Under the law, schools must notify parents at least 24 hours before any active shooter drill.

00:17:04Students who opt out face no punishment. The law also bans drills that simulate a real shooting.

00:17:10You can't use fake gunshots. After every drill, schools must debrief students and have mental health support

00:17:16on site. By the way, K-5 no longer will participate in any school shooter drill.

00:17:23We've just traumatized a generation or two of people over this. And teachers. Do not forget the staff.

00:17:31Yeah, of course.

00:17:31There are teachers who have called into this program who said they, you know, what are we doing?

00:17:36Where you've got the SWAT team bursting in. I know we don't do this anymore, but back several years ago.

00:17:42Post Columbine.

00:17:43They would, you know, we're going to surprise attack everybody and let's just see how good

00:17:48you are at throwing a chair at the fake gunman who's, what are we doing?

00:17:53We had a overhead call at my grade school. So every year we had the fire drill, the tornado drill,

00:18:00and it seemed like we had one of fire and tornado for every three active shooter drills.

00:18:06And this was early 2000s. And the call would come over the loudspeaker and all the kids would

00:18:11run into the corner of the classroom and they'd lock the door and the principal would

00:18:15literally run around the school banging on different classroom doors. And if he could

00:18:19hear us inside, we would then go over, you know, remain quiet, stay out of sight of the

00:18:25doors. I wouldn't say it was traumatizing.

00:18:29Yeah.

00:18:29You knew they were drills. Okay.

00:18:31We had a certain call over the loudspeaker to know it was a drill and a certain call over

00:18:35the loudspeaker to know this is the real deal. But I don't really, in an emergency like that,

00:18:43the teachers need to know what to do.

00:18:45Agreed.

00:18:46Not the students. And the students are going to be freaking out either way if it's real.

00:18:51So are the teachers.

00:18:52I remember the day that I thought, that's it. I'm packing up the family and we're moving out

00:18:57of here. And it was a day I was on the air and I got, yep, I got the sweetest,

00:19:03oh, that

00:19:03sweet little face, a text. And it was a selfie from one of the children. And she said, we are

00:19:12on lockdown and we're in the dark and the teachers are telling us we have to hide and be quiet.

00:19:19But you always said to me, we're supposed to run. What am I supposed to do?

00:19:22Oh boy.

00:19:24And I remember that day, she was probably, she was probably 10 years ago, 11 years ago,

00:19:30thinking like, I'm done. I'm so done. We don't have any answers for this thing. No one has the

00:19:35courage to have the answers that we need to fix this thing. Right. And I've said it before, like I

00:19:42have never been so relieved that they are out of that phase of their life. And I've never asked

00:19:47them, I need to do that. Like, what do you remember about those drills? And do you remember

00:19:51being afraid? And, um, the, the one drill that sent them on lockdown that I think scared

00:19:56the heck out of everybody was, there was a report that there was somebody outside roaming

00:20:01around with, with a gun after some sort of burglary nearby or something. And it ended up

00:20:06being unfounded.

00:20:07Mm-hmm. But I wonder, um, were we traumatized with the nuclear blast drill, having to climb

00:20:14under a fake wood desk, knowing full well we would be vaporized anyway?

00:20:18Let me tell you the difference. At age seven, I didn't understand what a nuclear attack was. I knew

00:20:25the tone that they would do in the elementary school. And then you would go run out into the

00:20:29hallway and put your, you know, head against the brick.

00:20:31Kiss your butt goodbye.

00:20:32And that was kind of scary. But at seven, none of us understood what we were talking

00:20:37about with a nuclear holocaust, which had we understood, we would have said, then why

00:20:41are we doing this? We're all going to be vaporized.

00:20:43Mm-hmm.

00:20:44Seven-year-olds in school today that have gone through those drills will tell you, they know

00:20:48exactly what the bad man with the gun looks like that's coming into that school.

00:20:52That's the difference.

00:20:54Sam, you did go through these drills. If you knew they were, they were going to happen in

00:20:59advance, why would anybody make noise when somebody banged on the door anyway?

00:21:03Exactly. They were pointless. It was dumb. All of us kids would get in the corner of the

00:21:08room and, you know, crack jokes and try to see what we could get away with in terms of

00:21:13how much noise we could make before the teacher was like, you're going to get me in trouble.

00:21:16I feel so bad for the teachers.

00:21:17I think the tornado drill is legit.

00:21:21Oh, sure.

00:21:22Students should need to know.

00:21:23You need to know where to go.

00:21:24Teachers need to know.

00:21:25Yes.

00:21:25If there is a tornado, what are we going to do?

00:21:28Absolutely.

00:21:28If you're in the bathroom and the fire alarm starts going off and, you know, what stairwell

00:21:33do I go down? What door do I walk out of?

00:21:36All legitimate.

00:21:38What is going to happen, though, if you are among the group of kids who opt out of the

00:21:42school shooter drill? You just going to take you to Starbucks for the day?

00:21:47It says students will not be, cannot be punished at all.

00:21:51What would the punishment be?

00:21:53I don't know.

00:21:54But where are they going to go is my question, because for us, it was an entire school thing.

00:21:59I understand.

00:22:00But when they did the shooter drill at your school, where did everybody, including yourself,

00:22:05in the classroom go?

00:22:07In the classroom?

00:22:08We stayed in the classroom we were in, yes.

00:22:10Okay.

00:22:10So I'm assuming that a student whose parents have opted out would just sit at their desk,

00:22:17twiddle their thumbs.

00:22:18So they're still experiencing it then?

00:22:20How many?

00:22:21Yeah, I guess so.

00:22:22If you had to put a percentage on it, what percentage of people do you think will opt

00:22:25their kids out? Because I would have opted them out.

00:22:28Depends on what the alternative is for my kid to do.

00:22:31So if I opt my kid out, right, and they're not to take part in the drill, to Sam's point,

00:22:37where do they go?

00:22:38Do they get moved down to the cafeteria five minutes before this happens?

00:22:43Yeah, because in elementary school, it's not like they're going to go hop in a car and

00:22:46grab Starbucks.

00:22:47Right.

00:22:47So do the kids whose parents have opted them out, are they taken to the library?

00:22:52Do they go to the cafeteria and just sit and wait for 10 minutes, and then they get to

00:22:56go back to their classroom?

00:22:58What if they're the only one in that classroom who's been opted out?

00:23:01I think you'll be surprised how many people are going to opt their kids out of this.

00:23:04And I don't remember the tally, but we did have like three or four actual lockdown situations

00:23:10while I was there.

00:23:10They were never in the building.

00:23:12Was it bank robbery adjacent?

00:23:13That's the most common.

00:23:15It was located, there was pretty common that there were shootings like four or five blocks

00:23:19away, and they would be like, okay, we're going to go into lockdown.

00:23:24I just, to your point, Dana, they are so pointless because you do have to give them advance warning.

00:23:31Otherwise, the kids are going to lose it, and rightfully so.

00:23:37But if they know it's coming, you would never know that a school shooting is about to happen,

00:23:42sadly.

00:23:43No.

00:23:43Right?

00:23:43And sadly, that they even happen.

00:23:46But if everybody is given a warning, oh, by the way, Timmy, tomorrow at three o'clock

00:23:50or two o'clock, there's going to be an active shooter drill at your school.

00:23:54Okay, Mom.

00:23:58And what are they learning?

00:24:00It's just reinforcing the fact that this has happened and can happen.

00:24:04And really, if we're being honest, this is why I've got this problem with these new cameras

00:24:10that claim they can shoot a gun, like, spy a gun in a hallway.

00:24:15Zero eyes.

00:24:16By the time that has happened and someone has that weapon inside, it's over.

00:24:22There's not, I mean, you can teach the kids to hide.

00:24:25It didn't work in Sandy Hook.

00:24:28No, it didn't.

00:24:29You know, in...

00:24:31You can teach them the fire drill.

00:24:32It didn't work in whatever that one was.

00:24:35It's also the, quite frankly, the teachers that shoulder all of that responsibility in that moment.

00:24:45And it usually is a teacher who loses their life protecting those kids.

00:24:48Telephone number here is 913-586-7798.

00:24:51Would love to hear from the teachers or parents.

00:24:55Can you opt out if you're a teacher?

00:24:56I don't want to do it.

00:24:58If you're a parent, do you plan to opt your kid out?

00:25:17Late last year, the nation was shocked to hear that Rob Reiner,

00:25:22director of heartwarming audience favorite films like Stand By Me,

00:25:26When Harry Met Sally, and The Princess Bride, among others,

00:25:30was found slaughtered alongside his wife and frequent collaborator Michelle Singer Reiner.

00:25:36What seemed even more shocking was that the suspect arrested for the murders

00:25:41was their son, 32-year-old Nick Reiner.

00:25:45He's now on trial for murder, and he's pleaded not guilty.

00:25:49According to reports, Rob and Michelle's other children,

00:25:53son Jake Reiner and daughter Romy Reiner,

00:25:56testified before a grand jury that ultimately indicted Nick.

00:26:00Alan Jackson, an attorney known for representing Harvey Weinstein,

00:26:04has agreed to represent the defendant

00:26:06if Nick could get access to the money from a trust fund

00:26:10his parents established for him.

00:26:13Odyssey station KNX News in Los Angeles

00:26:15had the latest on the case this week.

00:26:20Nick Reiner's trying to get his hands on trust fund money

00:26:22for his murder defense,

00:26:23but the judge today pushed a hearing on that to the fall,

00:26:26so for now, Reiner remains broke, in jail,

00:26:29and relying on a public defender.

00:26:31Here's Emily Valdez.

00:26:32Nick Reiner has a public defender,

00:26:34and he wants big-time attorney Alan Jackson,

00:26:36but for that, he needs big-time money.

00:26:39The Reiner's had set up a trust for their children,

00:26:42including Nick Reiner.

00:26:43Attorney Chris Melcher is not involved in the case.

00:26:47There's money in that trust,

00:26:48and Nick, or really his attorney,

00:26:52wants that money for his criminal defense,

00:26:55but the trustee is saying,

00:26:57no, you can't have that money because you killed your parents.

00:27:01California has what's called a Slayer Statute,

00:27:03and that means people cannot inherit or get money from people

00:27:06they have likely killed.

00:27:07Notice the word likely.

00:27:09The bar is lower.

00:27:10This is not beyond a reasonable doubt,

00:27:12and Reiner was indicted by a grand jury.

00:27:15The judge in the probate court has sufficient information,

00:27:17I believe, to make a finding

00:27:21for that purpose of the killer air statute

00:27:24that Nick Reiner is responsible

00:27:26for the murder of his parents to deny payments.

00:27:29Of course, if other evidence came out in the future,

00:27:31which would show that somebody else killed the Reiner's,

00:27:34then Nick can reapply or petition for the money from the trust.

00:27:39Reiner sits in jail.

00:27:40His bail, $1.5 million.

00:27:42His next probate hearing is in October.

00:27:44I'm Emily Valdez, KNX News.

00:27:48For more on the Reiner case,

00:27:50Dana Wright, Scott Parks, and Sam Stevie III

00:27:52discussed the new developments this week.

00:27:56Did you see there is a new indictment

00:27:58that has been handed up

00:27:59alleging that the son of Rob and Michelle Reiner

00:28:03was, quote, lying in wait before he killed them,

00:28:07and that is an additional upgraded charge, by the way.

00:28:10He has been indicted on murder charges

00:28:12and the killing of his parents,

00:28:13and now there are additional charges

00:28:17that he was literally...

00:28:20The charge is, Scott, lying in wait.

00:28:22I didn't know that that was a thing.

00:28:24I didn't either.

00:28:25The grand jury had been meeting in secret,

00:28:26as they do,

00:28:27returned the indictment on July 20th.

00:28:29It was unsealed today.

00:28:32We know what lying in wait means,

00:28:33that he waited or hid from his victims

00:28:35in order to, quote, ambush them.

00:28:38What was the motive?

00:28:39I forget.

00:28:41Oh, it was just crazy?

00:28:42As an allegation,

00:28:43it is meant to show premeditation.

00:28:45And, of course,

00:28:48I don't know that many people dispute that.

00:28:51Well, yeah, if you're lying in wait to kill your...

00:28:53Sam, yes.

00:28:55Wasn't he living with them at the time?

00:28:57I believe so.

00:28:57It's a confusing charge, in my opinion,

00:29:00because wouldn't you be at the house anyway?

00:29:04I was watching a legal observer today,

00:29:06and she just said,

00:29:07while we don't know exactly what went on in that house,

00:29:10we know it was violent,

00:29:11we know there was a struggle,

00:29:13and these charges would indicate that he was hiding,

00:29:17waiting for them to come home,

00:29:20likely incapacitated dad first,

00:29:23who would have done anything and everything

00:29:25to protect his wife.

00:29:27See, and therein lies a difference, Sam.

00:29:30There is a difference between,

00:29:32even if he did live at the home,

00:29:34your parents come home,

00:29:35I think they were at a party

00:29:36that he was also at earlier in the night.

00:29:39There's a difference between

00:29:41your parents coming home

00:29:42and you're sitting on the couch, right?

00:29:44Oh, hi, mom.

00:29:45Hi, dad.

00:29:46I'm about to kill you.

00:29:47And then hiding behind the couch.

00:29:50I'm not saying that's where he was.

00:29:51I'm just using that as the example.

00:29:53And if he's hiding behind the couch,

00:29:56they walk in, think nothing is wrong,

00:30:00and that gives him an immediate advantage of surprise.

00:30:03Did he get access to his trust for his legal defense?

00:30:06Oh, he's trying.

00:30:07Listen to this.

00:30:07The indictment comes as he continues seeking unpaid money

00:30:11from a trust his parents established for him,

00:30:16saying he needs it to help in his defense, right?

00:30:19Reiner said in a court petition

00:30:20that the trustees who oversee the funds

00:30:22have denied the money to him,

00:30:24quote, without legal justification.

00:30:27The money was to have gone to Nick Reiner,

00:30:30quote, even if his parents were alive,

00:30:32according to the legal filing.

00:30:36Trustees won't share the exact amount,

00:30:38but here's what the filing says.

00:30:39Are you ready for this?

00:30:41Be careful.

00:30:42I may agree with it.

00:30:43Nick loved his parents.

00:30:44I don't agree with that.

00:30:45He is devastated by their deaths.

00:30:48He's not.

00:30:48But the facts about what did and did not happen to them

00:30:53are not the issue here.

00:30:56The issue is, do you still have a right

00:31:00to the money that they set aside for you

00:31:04when you killed them?

00:31:05Is there anything, flip it around, Scott.

00:31:08If someone dies and leaves you a million dollars,

00:31:10does that come with strings?

00:31:12Strings, you can only access that

00:31:14if you're going to use it for housing,

00:31:16or you can only access that

00:31:17if you're not going to buy your girlfriend

00:31:19a $300,000 car.

00:31:21If there weren't strings attached to this money,

00:31:24they are arguing they wanted him to have it,

00:31:27and that the reason he needs it is immaterial.

00:31:30Well, but the reason he needs it is a defense

00:31:33in a case where I believe he has pleaded not guilty.

00:31:36Is that correct?

00:31:37I believe so.

00:31:38It's probably going to be an insanity plea.

00:31:40Yes.

00:31:40In our legal system, you are innocent until proven guilty.

00:31:44He has not been proven guilty of the murders of his parents.

00:31:48Therefore, I would make the legal argument

00:31:51that he has every right to that money.

00:31:53I think there's a law, I'm pretty sure there is,

00:31:55that says you cannot profit off of the murder

00:31:59that you have committed.

00:32:02Now, you're going to say, and you're right,

00:32:03He's not convicted.

00:32:04He's not convicted yet.

00:32:06If you're right, that is a loophole that needs to be closed.

00:32:09Why?

00:32:10Because it would, follow me here,

00:32:12it would literally give people that are off their rocker

00:32:21almost ammunition to kill someone.

00:32:23If you know you're going to get $1.5 million,

00:32:27it's in a trust, if something, God forbid,

00:32:29if a plane goes down and something happens to mom and dad,

00:32:31I get $1.5 million.

00:32:32If you make it so that there isn't a murder exception,

00:32:36people would just go around killing people for the money.

00:32:39But once you're convicted, you can't spend your parents' money.

00:32:41Like, he's asking to spend it before.

00:32:45Right.

00:32:46No.

00:32:47He's not free.

00:32:48He's not out of jail, right?

00:32:50He's in jail.

00:32:53Obviously, with this case, all signs point in one direction.

00:32:56But if it weren't this case, and the individual didn't do it,

00:33:01are they not being convicted beforehand

00:33:03by being denied access to the money for their legal defense?

00:33:06He still has a legal defense.

00:33:07Might not be the world's best in L.A.,

00:33:09but he still has a defense.

00:33:10Will he be entitled to the best defense that he can afford?

00:33:12I feel like there should be an asterisk in any trust

00:33:15that says, I am setting this money aside for you.

00:33:19So long as you're not charged with killing me?

00:33:21So long as you don't murder me.

00:33:24But there's, Dana, I know.

00:33:26Okay.

00:33:26So long as you are not indicted for my murder.

00:33:31I mean, shouldn't that just be baseline common sense?

00:33:35No, because I will defend the system that we have.

00:33:40He is, at the moment, he is innocent.

00:33:43At the moment, he's innocent with a public defender.

00:33:47That only furthers my point.

00:33:49He's, because now we're getting into conversation about public defense.

00:33:53He doesn't have the best lawyer available.

00:33:56Correct.

00:33:57And he is facing charges that are extremely severe.

00:34:02They could seek the death penalty.

00:34:04Correct.

00:34:05At which point he would get different attorneys.

00:34:07I'm sure they have a death penalty defense team.

00:34:10We're talking about the, what's the Reiner son's name?

00:34:14Nick.

00:34:14Nick, Nick Reiner.

00:34:18Whether or not he should get the inheritance from his parents, even though he is accused of killing them, to

00:34:26fund his legal defense.

00:34:27And Dana and Sam, I think, are of the opinion that he should not.

00:34:31And I am of the opinion that he should.

00:34:34Not because I think he's innocent, but in this country you are considered, or you are innocent, until or unless

00:34:42you are proven guilty.

00:34:43And he's not at home on house arrest or anything, ordering Uber Eats or anything like that.

00:34:48He's in jail.

00:34:50He is charged with their murders.

00:34:53So, I was correct.

00:34:55It is a legal doctrine known as the Slayer Statute or the Slayer Rule.

00:35:00Slayer is capitalized.

00:35:01I'm assuming that means someone's name and not the active.

00:35:05That would be a really unfortunate name for a law like that.

00:35:08Nor the band.

00:35:08Under the legal doctrine known as the Slayer Statute, an individual who commits a felonious and intentional killing is legally

00:35:18barred from receiving any financial benefit, inheritance, or trust payout from the victim.

00:35:24Now, it does – I understand what you're saying, Scott.

00:35:27He hasn't been convicted yet.

00:35:28So, what, you give them all $1.5 million to essentially blow, which is money that should go to the

00:35:36other siblings who didn't murder their parents.

00:35:38Let me ask you this.

00:35:40Let's go to Steve in Lewisburg.

00:35:42Hello, Steve.

00:35:44Hello.

00:35:45Interesting discussion.

00:35:46I'm glad you're bringing this up.

00:35:47You didn't mean to raise it directly, but I've argued for some time now that we should perhaps at least

00:35:54think about reconsidering – not throw it out – but reconsidering whether innocent until proven guilty is really the right

00:36:03thing.

00:36:04Keep in mind, innocent until proven guilty dates back like 3,000 years.

00:36:08It was codified by the Romans in like 100 A.D.

00:36:11And we've always just lived with this idea that that's right, just, fair, a concept.

00:36:17But it came about at a time way before we had videotape, audiotape, ballistics, fingerprints, and a lot of other

00:36:25things.

00:36:26I just think in certain cases the burden should shift because I don't think innocent – you know, it made

00:36:33a lot of sense maybe in the Old West when it was like, hey, who pulled his gun first?

00:36:37And you had no proof other than people's testimony.

00:36:40But nowadays when you have some pretty overwhelming physical evidence, I bet you're innocent until proven guilty makes sense anymore.

00:36:49That is an – yeah, interesting and some would say radical theory, Steve.

00:36:54Do we not already handle certain cases even though, okay, you are innocent until proven guilty, okay?

00:37:01Correct.

00:37:01Then why is there no bond?

00:37:02Why are you behind bars until trial?

00:37:04Well, we don't let homicidal maniac suspects, not convicted yet, we don't let them roam around with the rest of

00:37:12us.

00:37:12Well, and some people would say that that is unconstitutional, that they're – I can't remember which amendment it is

00:37:18– that you have to have basically a reasonable bond.

00:37:22No bond is not reasonable.

00:37:24I'm not making that argument.

00:37:26I'm saying what some people would say.

00:37:27But you wouldn't want Ted Bundy living next door to you while he awaited trial, right?

00:37:32No, I would not.

00:37:33So I do think in some cases, innocent until proven guilty, it's the best system that we have.

00:37:40But do we really believe that?

00:37:42And I would say to you in high-profile cases where there's a risk to the public, we don't because

00:37:47we keep them in jail pending their conviction.

00:37:51I don't even think we have innocent until proven guilty anymore because your entire life will be ruined even if

00:37:56you didn't do the crime and say your trial takes two years to come together.

00:38:01You now spent two years in jail.

00:38:03What are you going to tell a future employer?

00:38:04Hey, oh, well, yeah, I was convicted of murdering my parents, but I didn't do it and I finally got

00:38:09off.

00:38:09But they kept me in jail for two years because they decided that was best for society despite the fact

00:38:14that I wasn't a killer.

00:38:16Richard Jewell, who was implicated.

00:38:20Was he ever charged?

00:38:21He was implicated in the Olympic bombing, but he didn't do it.

00:38:26And was actually just a loving, good employee.

00:38:34Anna in Kansas City.

00:38:36You get the last word.

00:38:37Anna, hello.

00:38:38Okay, I really feel that the money should be used for his lawyers.

00:38:45I believe that he was schizophrenic and his parents, I know, did everything they could to help him, but they

00:38:54had put him on new medicine.

00:38:55He wasn't doing well on it.

00:38:57I don't think that he was in his right mind when he killed his parents.

00:39:01And I think that he needs a lawyer to help him.

00:39:05Anna, thank you for the call.

00:39:07This is where the lying in wait charge becomes interesting.

00:39:09Because if you had some sort of psychotic snap, right?

00:39:17You just snapped.

00:39:19Why would you lie in wait?

00:39:20And how long did he lie in wait?

00:39:21And that's what we don't have those details.

00:39:23I think that updated indictment today on the lying in wait is kind of a wink and a nod to

00:39:32everybody to say, do not completely blame this on mental health.

00:39:36Is there a mental health component to it?

00:39:37Absolutely.

00:39:39But he was also in and out of rehabs countless times.

00:39:42Oh, his parents were at their wits end, Scott.

00:39:44He was on God knows how many medications.

00:39:47And who knows what that did to his psyche.

00:39:50From the text line, and it's a good point.

00:39:53Steve was making the argument, well, maybe it shouldn't be innocent until proven guilty necessarily in this day and age

00:40:00because of all the videos and all this stuff that we have now.

00:40:04Well, somebody points out on the text line, what about AI?

00:40:07Yeah, but we have you on video saying this.

00:40:10Do we?

00:40:14Hollywood was again shocked by death just last weekend.

00:40:18This time, 36-year-old Hayden Panettiere, an actress known for her roles on shows like Heroes and Nashville, who

00:40:26had been in the business since she was just a baby, was found dead.

00:40:30She was unresponsive when first responders found her in her Greenville, South Carolina apartment last Sunday.

00:40:38Her on-and-off-again boyfriend, Brian Hickerson, who faced allegations of domestic violence in 2020, was at the scene.

00:40:46In Panettiere's recent memoir, This Is Me, A Reckoning, she said that Hickerson once beat her so badly that she

00:40:55didn't leave the house for weeks.

00:40:58He has not been charged with anything regarding her death.

00:41:02Panettiere's death is under investigation by the Greenville Police Department and the Drug Enforcement Administration.

00:41:08Crime and Terrorism Analyst Brad Garrett joined Odyssey Station WBEN in Buffalo to discuss the case.

00:41:16Investigation into the death of actress Hayden Panettiere.

00:41:20The DEA now joining this investigation, Brad, which I guess now over the past few days appears maybe a bit

00:41:29more complicated than it had initially.

00:41:32What's your read on what's been going on here?

00:41:34So, again, we don't really know the details about this story other than, yes, she was found unconscious, had passed

00:41:44away.

00:41:45Apparently, a boy, and on again, off again, as has been described, boyfriend, and the boyfriend's brother apparently reported that

00:41:54she was unconscious.

00:41:56I presume they were at whatever location she was where she was found.

00:42:01And if there was no apparent, like, gunshots, strangulation, knife wounds, things that physically you could look at her and

00:42:14see that she's been hurt,

00:42:15then what does that leave you?

00:42:17Something she ingested or snorted, whatever it might be.

00:42:22And so I think the preliminary was that it was a drug overdose.

00:42:27But the question is, is that true?

00:42:30The thing that's missed in cases like this, Brent, is that you really have to sort of dig deep into

00:42:37the following.

00:42:38You start with who found her and why were they there?

00:42:42Now, obviously, she had this relationship with this guy.

00:42:45But why was he and his brother there?

00:42:48Were there drugs other than prescribed drugs at the location?

00:42:54So you may well want to call in the DEA to do the following.

00:43:00If, in fact, there were other drugs found, where did they come from?

00:43:05Because they're going to have a network of who are the drug distributors in or around where she resides.

00:43:11The other is, even the prescription drugs running down, you know, were they correct?

00:43:18In other words, was she being prescribed things that she shouldn't have been prescribed?

00:43:22That's another angle to this.

00:43:24It may have no relevance, but that's something they'll look into.

00:43:28Because it's all of that that will give you maybe better insight as to what happened to her.

00:43:35Apparently, she had addiction issues for several years.

00:43:39But what is it that actually took her life this time?

00:43:44And toxicology may give you the answer or some of the answer to that.

00:43:49But that takes a while to come back.

00:43:52Is this getting a little extra scrutiny because we're talking about a high-profile celebrity?

00:43:58In some way, this reminds me of what happened when Matthew Perry died.

00:44:05Well, that's right.

00:44:07For whatever reason, high-profile people get high-profile attention from the media.

00:44:15I mean, when Lady Gaga's French Bulldogs were stolen.

00:44:19I mean, I was even talking about that.

00:44:22I mean, would we talk about your neighbor's French Bulldogs getting stolen?

00:44:26No.

00:44:27But that's just the way that the news ebbs and flows.

00:44:35Panetere was also open about her struggles with postpartum depression and addiction.

00:44:41She even revealed that her longtime partnership with skincare brand Neutrogena

00:44:46ended after she discussed postpartum depression during a live interview.

00:44:50She told podcast host Jay Shetty the ordeal made her realize how little people really understand

00:44:56about this condition, which the Mayo Clinic says is, quote,

00:45:01not a character flaw or a weakness, but a complication that can arise from giving birth.

00:45:07The Mayo Clinic also notes that postpartum psychosis is a more extreme and rare disorder than

00:45:15postpartum depression, but it's also a condition that can develop after a woman gives birth.

00:45:21The defense team for Lindsay Clancy, a Massachusetts woman on trial for the alleged killing of her

00:45:28three children, have argued that she suffered from postpartum psychosis.

00:45:34Here's more on that condition from Odyssey Station WBBM News Radio in Chicago.

00:45:41Only about one or two in 1,000 women experience postpartum psychosis.

00:45:45Dr. Kate Johnson, chair of psychiatry at Loyola Medical Center,

00:45:49says the severe depression and break from reality can develop after their bodies have gone through

00:45:54pregnancy and birth.

00:45:56They will scavenge things from their own body.

00:45:58They will take calcium out of their own bones to make sure the baby has what they need.

00:46:02That definitely can cause problems for the mom in a physiologic kind of way after delivery.

00:46:09Dr. Johnson hopes Lindsay Clancy's trial shines a light on the problem while the country's

00:46:14behind in diagnosing and treating other mental illness more broadly.

00:46:18Trying to then get a hold of somebody who knows and understands and has seen and treated

00:46:24and feels comfortable with postpartum depression or postpartum, just perinatal mental health

00:46:29in general, can be really, really challenging.

00:46:31Nancy Hardy, News Radio 105.9 at WBBM.

00:46:36Chad Benson at Odyssey Station KRLD 1080 in Dallas did a deeper dive into the Clancy case

00:46:44and postpartum conditions this Friday.

00:46:47The question is, is she guilty of murder?

00:46:54Not, did she do it?

00:46:57And I know that sounds weird, but if you're not following the case, and it's got a lot

00:47:01of headlines about Lindsay Clancy.

00:47:04This is a woman who in 2023, January 2023, sends her husband out to run an errand.

00:47:13And then she proceeded to kill her three children.

00:47:19So you're thinking, well, obviously she did it.

00:47:22Yes, but we know about postpartum depression, but there's also something called postpartum psychosis.

00:47:35And it's very interesting to look at this case, because I was, you know, I talked about this

00:47:43the other day when my wife had Charlie, my little one, she turns eight in a few days.

00:47:49She had postpartum depression.

00:47:52Yeah, think about it, right?

00:47:53You're, you're, you've got this living being inside of you, feeding off of you.

00:47:57Your hormones are out of control and then it's get on with life.

00:48:01Cause here comes the baby and all the other things.

00:48:05And there was some absolute postpartum depression.

00:48:12Now, did it rise to the level of psychosis?

00:48:15Not even close, but a lot of women are speaking up and they're angry because they feel like

00:48:21she's getting a raw deal.

00:48:22Now here's the thing.

00:48:23She killed the kids.

00:48:25There's nobody's, nobody is arguing that he did it or that it was some other monster.

00:48:31She killed the kids.

00:48:34And she said, she heard voices that said that she needed to kill the kids.

00:48:39She heard voices after she went to the doctors and she got, you know, prescribed SSRIs and they

00:48:48only got louder.

00:48:49I mean, there, there's no doubt about who did it.

00:48:54The question is, can she sell the jury?

00:48:59And it sounds weird to say that, that it was a break.

00:49:03Now there's some, look, many people have come forward and said that when they spoke to her,

00:49:10she was having a breakdown.

00:49:12She, she sought medical care.

00:49:14She went all of these things that, you know, that you would say, okay, this is not somebody

00:49:17who just magically did something and came up with some sort of diagnosis.

00:49:22But her treating psychiatrist said she never appeared to be psychotic.

00:49:28The prosecution said, look, she created the opportunity by sending him away so she could

00:49:34do it.

00:49:34But her chaplain, her mother, several other people that were associated with her family

00:49:41and friends all said that she had changed and that she had threatened to harm the children.

00:49:52And after it happened, she even told the chaplain that she said the kids were safe now.

00:49:59So it is, you know, it's, again, how real is this postpartum, you know, psychosis?

00:50:11It's real.

00:50:14Some people have it and they don't do anything.

00:50:17There's a lot of questions too about, obviously she, there was plenty of signs.

00:50:22Why did nobody pick up on those signs in a much different way?

00:50:25Talking about family members, maybe saying, look, we need to take the kids away from her.

00:50:30And, you know, and, and more and more people are speaking out about this.

00:50:35And it, it is a fascinating and tragic story.

00:50:41And I've watched a lot of the stuff and I've been reading a lot of it.

00:50:45And my wife and I have talked about it because obviously, you know, she's, she's following it.

00:50:49And it's because it's children.

00:50:55Because you're a mom, you know, you go back and you've seen some of these people that have done stuff

00:51:01to their kids.

00:51:03And was it an incident that they had, it was a momentary break that they really were psychotic?

00:51:13Or was it an excuse?

00:51:15I mean, it's such a hard thing.

00:51:17And to, to label everybody as evil and a killer and they did this.

00:51:22I mean, you're killing your three kids.

00:51:24There's got to be a little something wrong with you.

00:51:26I mean, to do that.

00:51:28And, and, you know, we can go back and talk about all these, these women in the past that have

00:51:32done, you know, these things.

00:51:35And there's been plenty of them.

00:51:37I mean, is there, they're there.

00:51:39Is there a break?

00:51:41And I, it is a hard thing because it is a tragic thing.

00:51:48It is an awful thing.

00:51:50It is the thing where you sit there and you go, it churns your stomach because you think of those

00:51:54three little kids and what she did.

00:51:58But then you have a lot of people that come out and say, no, she's just evil and she needs

00:52:01to rot in hell.

00:52:03And my, uh, my buddy comes who, who works with local station comes on before me.

00:52:10He thinks she's just evil.

00:52:12She needs to rot in hell.

00:52:13She needs to be executed.

00:52:14And then there's no such thing as, as this.

00:52:17And I, I don't think it's as, it's as easy as there is or isn't.

00:52:22I think there's a lot more to it than, you know, you, she's got her supporters and there's plenty of

00:52:26them out there.

00:52:27It's just, it's a fascinating thing.

00:52:29When you think about the psychosis, could somebody have a break that the mind, you know, and we've taught, you

00:52:35know, like you get a lot of people out there, they're, they're, you know, not guilty by reason of insanity.

00:52:39That rarely happens anymore.

00:52:42I mean, it just doesn't very rarely does it happen, but we were talking yesterday.

00:52:47It's like, and I've said this over the years is how can you look at somebody like a Jeffrey Dahmer

00:52:51and think to themselves that that's, that's a normal thing.

00:53:00That was, you know, eating a human being and keeping their body parts in the fridge.

00:53:05How do you, how do you, how do you, I, I just, I don't know the mind, all of it.

00:53:08It's, and this is of course become an incident where, you know, you sit there and you, you, you've got

00:53:15this, a lot of people who are there to support her.

00:53:20Because they've been through postpartum depression and, you know, they look and say, you know, there by the grace of

00:53:27God, go I, but it doesn't mean that she's, you know, not guilty.

00:53:32She did kill her children.

00:53:35It's just, did she do it and she had no way to stop herself because she had had a break

00:53:47with reality.

00:53:51It's just fascinating and tragic.

00:53:53The Mark Cox Morning Show out of Odyssey Station 97.1 The Talk in St. Louis also discussed the Clancy

00:54:02case, specifically the role medications play in it.

00:54:06Kim, she's the, the mother accused of murdering her three children and apparently trying to take her own life while

00:54:14battling postpartum depression.

00:54:17That's the argument the defense is using here.

00:54:20It's raised a lot of eyebrows and they asked Dr. Drew about this yesterday on, on Hannity show.

00:54:26And his question was, they found out this woman's medication list.

00:54:29Many, many of the medicines she was on don't interact well with, with the others.

00:54:35His question was in today's medical environment with everything that's online and these health charts and everything.

00:54:42Like if you, if you're with BJC or, you know, SSM or whatever it happens to be, your doctor can

00:54:49pull up your entire list of medicines and look at them.

00:54:51That should be able to.

00:54:52It was the exact question I had asked when I initially talked about this was how was that not known?

00:54:57Because, well, first of all, you're asked usually what other medications are you taking?

00:55:00And I understand you can easily lie about that on some medical form.

00:55:03But don't you think that she would have wanted to list those because she'd want to make sure that they

00:55:08weren't having some weird reaction with any new medication she was prescribed?

00:55:11Or did she doctor shop?

00:55:13Dr. Drew said the U.S. has, quote, eviscerated primary care, making medications and prescriptions a bit of a complicated

00:55:22topic.

00:55:23I don't have a primary care physician.

00:55:25There is one person I went to to try to set that up.

00:55:27But if I'm sick, because I'm not sick very often, I go to urgent care.

00:55:31It's just way easier.

00:55:32That's part of the problem.

00:55:33But it's also not the answer.

00:55:34Because my mother will go to the same doctor she's been seeing for five or six years, and we'll go

00:55:40in and sit down in an appointment, and they will look at her and say, what medications are you on?

00:55:49And every time, my answer to them is, whatever you prescribed her.

00:55:54Look in your chart.

00:55:55Why are you asking me?

00:55:56And I guess, ultimately, what they're asking is, has another doctor prescribed something we don't know about?

00:56:03That would be a better way of asking that question.

00:56:06That's not the way they ask it.

00:56:08Well, they're probably not taking the time to look it up because they truly don't know.

00:56:11They ask the same questions over and over again.

00:56:13And again, I get you have to update information and things like that.

00:56:16But when my son had to get stitches the other day, I went to a Mercy Urgent Care.

00:56:20I said, hey, they said, oh, we can't help you go to this one.

00:56:23It was within the same network, Mercy.

00:56:25And I said, can you please call them first and make sure that they can handle this?

00:56:28And they said, we don't have their number.

00:56:30We have no way of talking to them.

00:56:31You're in the same network, and you can't, there's no number.

00:56:34There's not a single person that you can get a hold of over there.

00:56:37That makes no sense to me.

00:56:39Yeah, I agree.

00:56:40All right.

00:56:40John Grayson, Scott Parks, and Sam Stevie III of the Dana and Parks Show out of Odyssey Station, KMBZ in

00:56:48Kansas City, weighed in on the Clancy case, too.

00:56:51Are you interested at all in the trial that's going on right now in Massachusetts?

00:56:55I find it fascinating.

00:56:57Yes, I find it fascinating.

00:56:58My wife is obsessed with this trial and has been going through and looking at every bit of commentary that's

00:57:07out there on the web.

00:57:08And people, I mean, if there is a more hated person in the country right now, not than her, than

00:57:15her husband, I don't know who it is.

00:57:18People hate this man like poison.

00:57:21Yeah, it's getting really, really ugly.

00:57:23But I don't know if you heard at the top of the hour, something interesting happened today because they broke

00:57:29for lunch and then never came back.

00:57:32The judge just said, unforeseen circumstances, we're sending everybody home.

00:57:35We'll see you tomorrow.

00:57:36Oh, that's weird.

00:57:37Yeah.

00:57:38See, I do not think that she, and I almost feel like I have to preface this by saying that,

00:57:48of course, what she did, and nobody's denying that she killed her three kids.

00:57:52Hmm, hmm, hmm, not so fast.

00:57:56There are.

00:57:56There is a conspiracy theory out there that he killed them.

00:58:00Okay.

00:58:02Sam, what have you done to John?

00:58:06I didn't say I believed it.

00:58:08I just said it's out there.

00:58:09Don't blame me.

00:58:10You're the one that's been working with me every day.

00:58:15I do not think she should go to prison for the rest of her life.

00:58:18I do think she should probably go to a mental detention facility for a very long time.

00:58:26You know, am I following it gavel to gavel?

00:58:29No.

00:58:29Am I keeping up on it?

00:58:31Hell, yes, I am.

00:58:32And because I do think that this is a very interesting story.

00:58:37But there is no doubt that she was sending people signals, I am not well.

00:58:42Oops, sorry.

00:58:43Yes.

00:58:43I just hit the microphone, beg your pardon.

00:58:45She was begging for help.

00:58:46Yes.

00:58:47And she was largely ignored.

00:58:48I'm thinking about doing harm to the kids.

00:58:51And, you know, mental health in this country, including postpartum depression, which I'm

00:58:59starting to really believe she had in a, they use an extra word on it.

00:59:06Psychosis.

00:59:07Yes.

00:59:10I'm starting to be convinced that she had the psychosis of postpartum depression.

00:59:16And she was begging for help.

00:59:19But, you know, with so many other different kinds of mental health issues, problems in

00:59:26this country, we are slow to get on this bandwagon and accept that, you know, that your brain

00:59:34is just like any other part of your body, except better and more important.

00:59:38And when something is not working up here or, you know, the wires are getting crossed, well,

00:59:44you know, suck it up, buttercup.

00:59:46You know, the depression is one of the most misunderstood things in this country.

00:59:52Absolutely.

00:59:53You know, I remember when Robin Williams died a handful of years ago and we ended up talking,

00:59:58he died literally at the tail end of one of our shows.

01:00:01And of course, we started talking about it right out of the gate at two o'clock the next

01:00:05day because it was Robin Williams and he had killed himself.

01:00:08Right.

01:00:09And I lost track of how many people would write in on the text line or call in on on

01:00:14the phone

01:00:14lines and say, what did he have to be depressed about?

01:00:17He had everything.

01:00:18He was famous.

01:00:19He was rich.

01:00:20It doesn't work like that.

01:00:22Right.

01:00:23No, no.

01:00:24It's it's not what do you have to be depressed about?

01:00:27You either are or you aren't.

01:00:28And if you are, there's very little outside of therapy and medication and things like that

01:00:33that you could do about it.

01:00:34So, yeah, the idea that, you know, he had all this money and all this fame, he should

01:00:38be happy.

01:00:39No, no, that's not how that works.

01:00:42Let me think about just very quickly and then we got to get to a really short break.

01:00:46But think about all the famous people that have killed themselves that people would say,

01:00:51well, what do you have to be depressed?

01:00:51I think about Brad Delp, the lead singer of Boston, Boston, yep, who killed himself by

01:00:57lighting a charcoal grill in his bathroom and closing the door.

01:01:03That's how he killed himself.

01:01:05People would say, what did Brad Delp have to be depressed about?

01:01:07He had everything.

01:01:08He was lead singer of Boston.

01:01:10He was rich because it doesn't work like that.

01:01:14It's that simple.

01:01:16Thank you so much for listening to this true crime roundup from the On Deadline podcast.

01:01:21This episode was written and produced by me, Lauren Berry.

01:01:25Special thanks to KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh, KYW Newsradio in Philadelphia, WWJ Newsradio in

01:01:34Detroit, WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities, Tommy Tucker out of WWL in New Orleans, the

01:01:43Dana and Parks Show out of KMBZ in Kansas City, KNX News in Los Angeles, WBEN News and Talk in

01:01:51Buffalo, the Chad Benson Show out of KRLD 1080 in Dallas, and the Mark Cox Morning Show out

01:01:59of KFTK in St. Louis.

01:02:01You can find these programs on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your podcasts.

01:02:07You can find these true crime roundups by subscribing to the On Deadline podcast, the Who Killed

01:02:14Strawberry podcast, or the Bitter Academia podcast, on the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

AUDACY NEWS' True Crime Roundup: Looking at the Lindsay Clancy case, Nick Reiner updates, Derek Chauvin and more

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