R29 Nose Dive: Smells Like: Sh*t

Refinery29

Have you ever sampled a whiff of your own BO… and enjoyed it? Or perhaps some of the more litter-y notes of the cat variety? No shade, says Arabelle Sicardi, longtime writer, investigator, and expert conveyor of fragrance, author of The House of Beauty (out now!), and creator of the scent-centered creative collective Perfumed Pages. They chat with Asia about how their dad basically kicked off their life in perfumery by water-boarding them — with scent! Arabelle dishes about their obsession with orange blossom, deep vanilla, and also the finer scent palate required to appreciate the musk of the civet cat’s perineal glands that shapes so many beloved, classic perfumes. Thankfully, eos Pumpkin Chai is a reminder that not every unexpected scent has to be divisive. It's a richer, spicier take on pumpkin that smells nothing like the overly sweet versions you might expect.  Listen on Apple Podcasts: [INSERT LINK] Listen on Spotify: [INSERT LINK]  ABOUT REFINERY29 Refinery29 is a modern woman’s destination for how to live a stylish, well-rounded life. http://refinery29.com/  SUBSCRIBE TO REFINERY29  Subscribe to the Refinery29 channel: http://bit.ly/subscribe-to-r29 Follow Refinery29 on Instagram:  / refinery29   Follow Somos on Instagram:  / r29somos   Follow Unbothered on Instagram:  / r29unbothered    Products Featured: eos Pumpkin Chai 24H Moisture Body Lotion: https://evolutionofsmooth.com/products/pumpkin-chai-body-lotion?srsltid=AfmBOopnS6O1EHxDVgKEkwPT4oYj_nmVnjd61MTbAfussClRfa7U6qR-

Transcript

00:00want to know if you would sniff this is it being sniffed or you can you can just skip it

00:04all right

00:04cool first petting zoos oh sniff extreme sniff really yeah there's so many different animals

00:12different furs the water the soil yeah why wouldn't you

00:26welcome to nosedive where we take a profound whiff of the fragrances moments and memories that make us

00:33who we are and what they tell us about the notes on the horizon i'm asia grant i will be

00:39your scent

00:40sommelier this season of nosedive is produced in partnership with eos and their brand new

00:46scent for fall pumpkin chai this pumpkin chai let me tell you has me in such a choke hold

00:52and i'm just gonna lean all the way in i want the lattes i want the candles and i will

00:58be lathering

00:58this lotion all over my body after every shower and then layering of course with the accompanying

01:04body mist this is eos's very first fall fragrance and i promise you it will be an instant icon did

01:12you know that one of the most prized elements in the world of fragrance comes from the digestive

01:19track of a sperm whale you can look it up on tiktok i promise it is called ambergris people are

01:25legit

01:25getting hundreds of thousands of global british pounds for discovering this rare material on the

01:31beaches of the uk there are also other freaky kind of things that are in fragrances and fragrances that

01:38we know and love not even super niche like civet which is this fecal like musk from the civic cats

01:44perennial gland there's deer musk which is the deep earthy animalic scent originally sourced from

01:51the deer's musk gland and oud and i feel like oud is all over the place men are always saying

01:57they want to

01:57smell like oud women want to smell like oud and what oud actually is is the mold that infects a

02:03specific tree and that tree produces this resin to fight the infection and that resin is what we

02:08harvest so it's kind of like you know when you get a little scabby and it's a little ooey gooey

02:12that is what oud is but for a tree you might be surprised by all of this but today our

02:17guest she is

02:18not she is deep in it who i have with me today is arabelle sicardi a longtime writer investigator

02:26expert conveyor of fragrance the author of the house of beauty which is out now and i think

02:32paperback is coming out soon yes yes yes in november in november absolutely phenomenal

02:39congratulations that means that sales are doing well she's also the creator of scent centered

02:44creative collective called perfumed pages and you're currently based out of morocco which i feel

02:49like is probably one of the best places to really dive into fragrance welcome arabelle thank you so much

02:55for having me of course we're going to actually open this up with a quick fire game called sniff

03:01or skip okay yeah i'm locked in amazing so i want to know if you would sniff this is it

03:08being sniffed or

03:08you can you can just skip it all right cool first petting zoos oh sniff extreme sniff really yeah are

03:16you getting in there and sniffing or are you kind of just like in enjoying the ambience of the sniff

03:20i'm

03:21not a bad tourist i'm not gonna climb the fence you know i will not be seen on news misbehaving

03:27but i

03:28will get like really close to the window i'm just so curious about this is this kind of like a

03:32county

03:33fair petting zoo that you're trying to sniff or are you trying to sniff like the top tier upper echelon

03:40like exotic animal sniffing i want exotic animal sniffing and i want them to be as ethically contained

03:45as possible even though that seems like kind of counterintuitive you want like 200 acres of a of a

03:50yeah i want the erwin family to be proud that it exists incredible yeah i love yeah first animal that

03:56you would sniff there panda perfect tiger for me number two taxis with a strong osium smell which is

04:05that you know skip skip skip thank you no thank you because that was literally me this morning coming

04:11in on my uber i was like um can we open all of the windows i understand that it is

04:15there should be

04:16a smell free option there needs to be a smell free option where it's like temperature freezing

04:21conversation little to none but i do want to know how your day is and zero smell so please aerate

04:26the

04:27car before i get in so true liking your own bo

04:31i think it depends on what you eat but i can see it

04:38i would i would skip it but i think that also depends so yeah okay i'm so true honestly i

04:48would

04:48skip it too like sometimes i do the sniff test on all of my shirts after like going to the

04:52gym and i'm

04:52like i'm like what were you doing this is me last one spraying yourself all over perfume wise twice

05:02yeah that's appropriate that is that's correct for me what is your application style honestly i

05:09usually do two sprays on my wrists and then on my neck area clothes or no clothes no clothes okay

05:16no we

05:17are once again very aligned never on clothes i think i spent too much money on my clothes and my

05:22perfume they need to both shine kind of separately yeah and sometimes it's like what it's the the

05:27extract version of fragrances they might have more oil so you might you might stain you might stain it

05:32is it worth it then no no never incredible yay well on this episode we're going to get straight

05:38into the strange rules the obsessive rituals the technical artistry and of course the weird

05:46ingredients the unbelievable ingredients that shape how fragrances actually work so i want to know

05:52when you're working with like a hard to get ingredient like an ambergris or a civet or a deer

05:58musk if you guys did not know these were in perfumes like this is there especially if you like something

06:03that's like a skin scent or something that's a little bit kind of like feral and sexy these are there

06:09and the process of coming up with the perfect formula takes rounds rounds rounds error trial

06:15there's just like a lot of kind of protection around it i want to know what you specifically

06:21arabelle have been obsessed with in these kind of like oddities i actually got to smell ambergris

06:27like the og version of it maybe like two years ago and i was surprised that it felt so contained

06:35in

06:35comparison to what i thought it would be okay but for me what i love is a really fresh fresh

06:42orange

06:43blossom and super super super super super extracted vanilla okay like drunk on vanilla vanilla where

06:54origin wise do you like vanilla like madagascar you want the original madagascar i want i want the

06:58original okay you know i'm i'm obsessed with like how boozy it can get yeah and how how filthy

07:05you know almost spicy it's almost bo there's so much personality in it right and vanilla is probably

07:12the least vanilla raw ingredient when you smell it the grand irony of it yeah when you get closer to

07:18it

07:18it's just so surprising it's its own universe so i love that and i'm learning so much about saffron so

07:24i

07:24i'm really appreciating learning about that so i could imagine there's a bunch of saffron in morocco

07:29like yeah can you paint me a picture of smelling saffron in morocco and how that's been you've been

07:36doing a lot of fragrance research while you're there yeah i brought some with me but i think i

07:40have it over there but it's so it's marvelous because you can just walk down the streets i i'm

07:46staying in fez and so you walk down the streets and you smell the cats that live in the streets

07:52you smell

07:53like the still water you smell the the limestone of the buildings and you smell saffron because people

07:59just put it put a little sprinkle sprinkle in their water to drink it's much cheaper there so

08:05if you were buying it here you'd be like that's 30 right there right and they like pull it out

08:10of

08:10their pocket and it's like this little like yeah exactly and so you smell it everywhere and it smells

08:16entirely different to me and it's just layered with all of the orange blossom and the mint because

08:23there's there's booths of mint and donkeys carrying huge huge like barrels of i remember being in

08:30morocco and coming into one of the bazaars in marrakesh and you smell like the hay and kind of the

08:37barn smell like so much information it's it's a lot of like overload and then not even talking about like

08:42how hot it is and also like just the noise pollution but seeing kind of like that cart of

08:50mint and olives yeah dragged by a donkey is i think it's gorgeous and it can be very over stimulating

08:57but

08:57i think for me it's one of the only places that i've been where i like don't have my phone

09:02having

09:02being connected to the internet is not useful it's not useful if you're looking in your phone you will

09:06get lost because fez is the oldest labyrinth in the world it's the biggest labyrinth and so you must

09:12rely on your senses you have to pay attention to the the buildings to the land you're talking about

09:18the old part of the city yeah though the medina is the oldest labyrinth in the world and it's the

09:22biggest and so you just have to pay attention with your whole body and then you won't get lost and

09:28i

09:28haven't i never get lost there because i'm just like what do i smell what are the sounds is that

09:33an

09:34alley i remember and so it's helped me actually pay more attention to the things i'm smelling to

09:40and the sounds and the senses i'm not it's helped my screen time so the more you smell the more

09:46you

09:47know it is the oldest data phenomenal i had no idea about that yeah and i want to get to

09:52know you

09:53like not smell you yet but i do want to get to know about you and your origins and like

09:58you're

09:58blooming into perfume as well so all of our listeners could also get to know you but of course

10:03i want to know how you became a fragrance expert why did you even get drawn to perfume

10:11i fell in love with perfume through being a professional hater actually i will say like

10:18a proper capricorn yeah because you can hate something so much that it becomes its own kind

10:22of devotion right right like no on the same side of the spectrum yeah like know thy enemy and then

10:28when

10:28you know your enemy so well they kind of become your oldest friend but i had such an obsession with

10:37coco chanel and we're probably gonna we're gonna talk about it we're gonna talk about it but i had an

10:43obsession with chanel number five i had a section an obsession with really classic classic fragrances

10:51and when i was little my dad used to um don't call cps on him you guys so he used

10:57to he would kind

10:59of waterboard me with with fragrance like he would slap me with like a wet towel because i was really

11:04horrible at waking up oh and then he would like spray it with like a fragrance okay so like my

11:10earliest

11:10memories are like being forcibly awoken by like estee lauder beautiful love and like really really

11:17really floral traditional fragrances yeah i hated that okay obviously like clearly many people yes

11:23of course um i'm so sorry but also thank you dad right no literally it's it's funny the things that

11:31we do as parents but i was so obsessed with figuring out the psychology of these smells and you know

11:41making

11:41sense of this moment that i became obsessed and it's just a great way to connect to people traumatized

11:49moments aside being able to be like you smell great as a compliment opens up a relationship with someone

11:56so quickly like on the street you can say what does that smell that smells amazing all right what are

12:01you

12:01wearing and then people will stop people will explain people will stop they are like they will they will

12:06literally make themselves late yeah and because it's an opportunity for them to talk about themselves

12:12but it's like the quickest way to see someone exactly and it's it's really funny but like i always

12:17joke that the easiest way to kidnap me is just to smell good and lead me down valley oh because

12:21like

12:21i've absolutely followed people like randomly being like wait tell me everything about rice right it's

12:28just a way to be curious and earnest with marginally little risk right and i love that it's like every

12:36every opportunity you talk about smell with a stranger is kind of like that moment when you're

12:41in a girl's bathroom in a party yeah and everyone is taking care of everyone else yeah that's what smell

12:47culture is to me so a little bit of trauma bonding a little bit of healing yeah the trauma bond

12:52and

12:52finding out that you actually love the thing that you hate yeah but was there a specific smell like

12:58this sounds like a lifelong journey was there like a point maybe it's chanel number five but a point where

13:03you felt like yeah this is what i now get to devote my work to i don't think that there's

13:08like this one

13:09point it's kind of in a continuous decision i make i'm the type of person that there's very little

13:15distance between when i dream something and when i try to do it and i think that's what shapes my

13:19life

13:20i joke that i'm the luckiest person in the universe but it's also because i write down

13:26the things that i want and then i write down in really granular detail the things i'll do to make

13:31it happen and like i'll bargain with the universe and be like i'll do this this this this this i

13:37promise

13:37check in with me that's fine and then i do it i'm not the type of person that will say

13:41i want to do

13:42this maybe one day i will immediately start figuring out how to do it and when it comes to fragrance

13:48fragrance that meant that like oh i want to know more about the smell i'm going to go get a

13:52bunch

13:52of citrus i want to smell an orange fragrance or a chai fragrance or something and compare it to the

13:58smell of the tea and all the different teas and that becomes a meditation for the day or the week

14:04or the month and then you're surrounded by your own curiosity and your own reward and so i just try

14:11to

14:11make that happen over and over and over again and that's what builds my life is just finding

14:17finding ways to make the devotion instantaneous right and immediate and then keep going and the

14:22ritualistic way of just exploring i think you were saying this before where you have to be an observer

14:27and you have to be one that experiences fragrance to really understand it yeah you you pay attention

14:34and it's it's the opposite of distraction to me and we live in a society that rewards

14:40and it inundates us with distraction right like doom scrolling and just just the numbing effect of

14:47social media and so for me fragrance is all about the exact opposite experience how do you pay attention

14:55to something that you can't see and that's just like i agree it's like x-ray vision it's amazing and

15:02the more you find out about one thing it kind of unlocks the wisdom of a bunch of other things

15:07it's

15:07kind of like one plus one turns into eleven because you're like oh i didn't know that these

15:11two things were connected and they are actually twins just from like different places it's just

15:16a series of side quests that become the world and it's the best you seem like a queen of side

15:20quests

15:21like i would love to go on side quests with you it would be an honor to take you on

15:24side quests

15:25i feel like what you have described for the listeners there's this thing that perfumers go through

15:33before they're even allowed to make a perfume which is called nose training and it sounds like your life

15:37is the act of consistent repetitive nose training yeah it kind of is yeah when did this start like

15:46can you remember when this actually happened like as a child like what was the first kind of raw

15:50material note where you're like this is now my act of devotion as you've said i have roses in my

15:57family's garden um that i grew up with my parents still live in the house that i grew up in

16:02and so

16:02i would smell the backyard all the time i would smell the roses they're they're bulgarian roses

16:10they're not damascus roses and there's peonies and a bunch of other flowers that have smell and then

16:16there's there's the pine trees that we grew from seeds and all of these things and i would do

16:21weeding jersey city cool bridge and tunnel kid baby love so i grew up with all of these smells

16:28and i used to hate the smell of roses and i used to hate weeding and all of these things

16:34because it

16:34was just it's exhausting but the more that i've become in love with fragrance the more the things

16:42that i hated i have such appreciation for like me being in morocco is me chasing down the rose harvest

16:50at the final breaths and like i used to hate roses now i traveled across the world to hold a

16:57single

16:58rose yeah at harvest yes like there's nothing that i can't find a way to to be in love with

17:04like if i really really try not that i have to for everything of course there's some things that i'm

17:09like

17:09absolutely not don't touch yes but i think being able to find ways to make your curiosity the most

17:15powerful and special thing about you like is is the most generous gift that being alive can give

17:23right so yeah but my life is pretty much all in those training and and sharing that with other

17:29people and seeing how it shapes our art and the ways that we communicate and it's it's one of the

17:36greatest gifts that i've been able to invent for for my writing and my creative practice i want to talk

17:42to you about rose before we dive into everything else because i feel like rose is one of those

17:46fragrances and notes that people associate with kind of old lady stuffy not cute but it's one of the

17:55most complex and rich sensual honestly very unisex as well how would you describe smelling a rose

18:05so the roses that i've been smelling the past couple weeks they are um damascus rose they

18:13they smell a little green like some roses they smell almost candy right sometimes for me i'm not

18:22describing the smell i i sometimes think of colors right and every perfumer you'll ever meet yeah every

18:28perfume you have on me like oh yeah i'm synesthetic i'm so gifted and this suddenly seemingly rare like

18:35thing about people everyone you meet has it in perfumery which i find we all have it dubious but

18:42amazing right i'm like okay you have to rush you gotta rush like a very you it's if you pluck

18:47a rose

18:48like it's dying like it's almost like bleeding out you've disturbed you've disturbed its life you've

18:54right and they're very dramatic as they even look when they're alive they're the most dramatic

18:57thing so you have how much time do you have after a rose has been plucked to actually distill it

19:01down

19:02to the oil that you you must do it immediately like if you wait for the afternoon like it's gone

19:07like people farmers like what they wake up before dawn really to begin the process of of harvest and

19:13distilling so me just holding it is me just like ruining it as a material for smell it's just me

19:21appreciating it the natural material and the little indulgent a little selfish yeah it's it's selfish but

19:26it's a good way to understand like how the smell changes from when it's living and on the ground

19:32to when it begins to decay and like the molecules start to change because the sun like it's drying out

19:38the petals and so you get more of the decay and like you know like the molecules of death they

19:44they

19:45they extrapolate they get bigger as they're dying right so that's why so many of these perfumes they

19:51have a little civet or they have a little the molecules describe what civet is because i know

19:54what it is but civet i like to call it the death the the death molecule really yeah what do

20:01you call

20:02it how do you describe it oh it's like the sassiness of a black cat oh that makes sense too

20:07but also when

20:08i think about cats i'm also thinking of the smells of like the litter and stuff too no yeah sorry

20:14i'm maybe

20:15it's more because i'm a dog person right now oh no but but civet it it reminds me more of

20:21of of

20:22decay and like fecal stuff and i don't i don't mean that in a like ew gross way not not

20:27totally no an

20:28interesting way it adds more dynamic it makes a life have an ending in a beginning right because if it's

20:36just a perfect thing that's only life life life life life you don't see the end of it and for

20:42civet

20:43that makes it seem like it'll it has a heartbeat or that it's gonna bleed for our listeners civet is

20:49an animal musk that's where the origins of musk came from you mentioned ambergris ambergris comes

20:54from sperm whales it's sperm whale bile civet correct me if i'm wrong that's it's from cats it's from like

21:01a

21:01cat uh not to be too gross because you know all of us were animals at one point we are

21:07just you know

21:08now we have thoughts but civet is kind of that cat pee cat poo like butt gland of a fragrance

21:17yeah yeah

21:18and it's not um supposed to be used in most fragrances now like the natural version because we have

21:25hunted these animals to near extinction because of our desire to extract we're greedy people are

21:34greedy people want it in the purest form and i feel like it's if you think back to when people

21:40would like hunt animals and there's like the taxidermy and it's like look at this glorious

21:44thing but you're destroying a glorious thing to just have kind of the moment to show off let's do

21:49something fun because i don't think people actually understand how perfumes are made so i want to talk

21:53about what it takes to actually make a fragrance we can go through the whole process as much or as

21:59little as you want but the basics of the overall process of making a fragrance cool so for the

22:06most part perfumers they're not like going to be out in the farms like i am sniffing roses necessarily

22:12they have a bunch of materials and for let's say my nose training programming it takes like two to

22:19four weeks to macerate yeah it has to kind of give it time yeah you gotta let it simmer yeah

22:23sometimes

22:24it can let it cook yeah you gotta let it cook a little bit yeah do you believe in like

22:29you need

22:31a multiple multiple multiple iterations before a fragrance is done or do you have you ever worked

22:37in a way or with a perfumer that's like we're gonna just spend a lot of time on the research

22:42side

22:42and like the concepting side and then crank out one no that would feel like cheating that would feel

22:49like that i'm doing the spark notes version of the fragrance but you know people work differently

22:54there's definitely fragrance experiences out there where like you don't get multiple iterations as like

23:01a walk-in retail client to like a perfume workshop you're not going to get multiple rounds because of

23:06the nature of how it's structured for me i think creating a fragrance for yourself is such a personal

23:13journey and if you're going to do it right without compromise you need the time because for example

23:20like a vanilla it can smell not sweet enough when you first start using it and then in two weeks

23:26later

23:26the vanilla will have gotten a little darker almost in the bottle so it'll smell almost too sweet

23:31so if you add enough for your immediate nose it might be too much actually right right that's

23:39happened to me before when i've when i've done my own versions of things and for my my own personal

23:44smells i i have very simple formulas because i just i like i like being able to smell everything

23:53that i'm working with but compared to like the finished perfumes that you can get in store they

23:59usually have like dozens and dozens and they're also equally beautiful um but yeah you need more

24:04time you need to be able to have a back and forth and sometimes things change in the bottle right

24:10in

24:10front of your eyes and you won't notice until you smell it again i told people on the perfume tour

24:14when

24:14they immediately like something that they've sprayed on skin i'm like would you marry someone after the

24:19first date and they're like oh no i would not i was like is this perfume love bombing you yeah

24:28i'm yeah

24:28i'm like you love this right now it's telling you everything that you want to hear you feel like

24:32you're most beautiful that should be a sign that you need to take a little moment like it's okay to

24:37play

24:37hard to get with your perfume maybe it won't understand you in two hours maybe you're just in my

24:43it might ghost you yeah it might ghost you in 45 minutes but you really loved it for the first

24:48five so you kind of need to treat it as if you're dating to mary so so true live with

24:55her yeah do two

24:56weeks empty the sample and i feel like perfume making is really the same way i'm like you might

25:01love the first creation that you make but you need to check in two weeks later yes the art of

25:07commitment

25:07right you have to keep on coming and people don't know how to commit anymore no they don't it's a

25:12practice it's a practice of devotion i think everything is coming back to what you're saying

25:15around devotion where yeah you can't give your entire self right at the beginning you have to at

25:21least wait yeah and save and discover together has your taste developed over time like what did you

25:27like in the beginning of your perfume exploration journey to now i'm gonna be so honest i have

25:34immaculate taste and i always have incredible the things that i we are kin the things that i liked

25:41when i was 12 are still bangers and incredible yes what did you like when you were 12 for fragrance

25:46stuff i didn't really wear fragrance but for like makeup and things i really loved like having blue

25:55eyeliner i loved having black lipstick and this like all of these things i felt very fearless at a very

26:01young age and having that confidence has protected me in so many ways and i think that that little

26:07version of myself is incredible and is an icon and a legend so for smell stuff i'm like no the

26:14things

26:15that i loved are still incredible like britney spears has some of the greatest fragrances of all time

26:21fantasy midnight fantasy like the jolly rancher like effect it's just like the candy nature

26:29it's like a kaleidoscope it's beautiful it's stunning we would have would you wear it today still yes i

26:35still have it i still have my original bottle yeah it is it is an elder to respect and review

26:41yes

26:41absolutely i would love to know coming back to how fragrances are made and getting into the nitty-gritty of

26:51perfumery how do new scent materials get discovered like have we not already figured out all of the plants

26:56like don't we know every plant that has ever existed or are things still changing or are we

27:00now in the labs cooking up new funny funky things this is one of my favorite subjects it's something

27:07that i feel like there needs to be like a ted talk on or something this is your ted talk

27:10we are inventing

27:12things all the time still we every single day something new is possible you can be as jaded as

27:18as anything but the fact is in fragrance there's always more opportunity and we are in a renaissance

27:26right now where new things are still getting invented all the time which is wild of course there are some

27:31plants that we're still discovering but there are human main molecules that are being created and

27:38iterated on right now at a pace that we've never had before explain what the whole thing yes explain

27:45what this means because yeah i don't let's get down to the actual chemistry we don't have to i failed

27:51chemistry in high school so we don't have to get i hate chemistry i have found that a lot of

27:54people

27:54that are into perfume hate chemistry yeah sadly but okay tell us how like what is a perfume so a

28:02perfume

28:03is a combination of different fragrant materials plus like perfumer's alcohol basically right so you

28:11have all these different materials let's say you have like your 40 and you used let's say like four in

28:17different ratios right let's say five drops of jasmine three drops of lavender so on and so forth to

28:24finish the fragrance you're going to want to have perfumer's alcohol or like a carrier oil or something

28:29and then you put that with the finished materials in a certain ratio and then like kind of voila you

28:35have an iteration you have a version it may not be the finished product but you have something that

28:41you're moving in a direction yeah you have something that's skin safe so that is the simplified version of

28:49what a perfume is right um and so right now we have technology that is allowing people with with the

28:57technology to make new make new fragrance molecules and some of them might be twists like additions to

29:06existing molecules are essentially like the lavender or like the rose it's the oil or whatever kind of

29:12yeah material that you mix with the perfume or alcohol to make the fragrance 100 so every fragrance

29:19material like the liquid of it it is it is a molecular thing fragrance yes it comes in a bottle

29:26but

29:27at the end of the day it's it's like an atomic combination of molecules that are combined into

29:34a bottle that you can spray right think of think of it less as like a product and more like

29:41an invisible

29:41language yeah right and so when you're inventing a new molecule they're adding a couple of letters

29:47right and then suddenly a new thing is born right some of them are really just iterations and others

29:55are are not they might be more unique and the history of fragrance is all about how it's changed

30:05because of technological inventions like industrial perfumery became industrial because of chemistry

30:14advancements after after wars so it's all been tied together science and beauty have always been

30:21intertwined that way and yeah so we're inventing new molecules for fragrance all the time a lot of them

30:27are uh protected they call them captive molecules what does that mean oh yeah i could i could go on

30:36and

30:36i will eventually like captive is good bad cap damsel in distress is doing a lot of work right it's

30:42doing so

30:43much work so captive molecules are basically trademark protected molecules that only certain companies can use

30:48or distribute because they have they've they've got the trademark on it right right so and there's

30:56only a couple of companies in the world that that um have the capacity to continuously produce captives right

31:03and it's those captives that become like exclusive accords right which are a combination of different notes

31:11that become kind of their own their own grouping right you know like there's different

31:19color families right you have like how pantone also owns a bunch of exactly so you have like your

31:26jewel tone colors you have like your brights you have your your your your skin tones your accords are

31:33basically those kind of families of many different things in one grouping and so when you have

31:39captives they be they become from like they can either be a single a single smell or it can be

31:46a grouping

31:47and like the hero fragrances so to speak where there's like a new accord sometimes they'll have a little

31:55trademark symbol that's that's also because they own it no one else can use it but them right and to

32:01set

32:01some context of the industry of perfume because i'm sure some people believe that there are the

32:08byredo's and the diptyques and the le labo's and the prada's and the gucci's those are the brands

32:15those are essentially the creative direction of how a fragrance should smell but they are not the ones

32:20that are actually making the fragrances who's actually making the fragrances are one of the i think

32:24four big perfume house there's a bunch of indie kind of smaller perfume houses coming out but those are

32:29robertay givadon uh firmanish and i'm missing one yeah i feel like i mean coachy does yeah yeah

32:40sure yeah yeah but the biggest ones are like givadon and firmanish and then robertay and then probably

32:46cody and those are the ones that are where the perfumers are they're the ones i'm assuming

32:51hyper concentrated right exactly what is the most interesting note that you've i loved how your face lit

32:59up when we were talking about like invention yeah invention and the new molecules like what is a new

33:04molecule or cord that's really just been hitting it for you i'm really into the different solar

33:13yes fragrances that are happening i think that's amazing the idea that like sun and brightness and

33:19like summer can have an olfactory experience when you think about a solar fragrance because i see it

33:26being thrown around in marketing a lot what notes or kind of what accords does that bring up for you

33:33because i have very very strong opinions about solar fragrances i think right now it's not even specific

33:40notes it's like atmospheric and i love an atmospheric fragrance and for me that that means that i'm not

33:48when when i'm smelling something i'm not seeing a material i'm seeing a space and solar brings up

33:55sand and big spaces okay and like sahara okay oh so like a dry dry dry deep yeah okay and

34:04earthen even

34:05okay it's a little little toasty almost okay that's really interesting for me it's kind of the opposite i

34:11love that a lot of greenery like when i smell a solar fragrance like a greenhouse not even a great

34:16like

34:17big rolling open like sky and like very the hills are alive yeah and the sun is like this beaming

34:25thing that actually isn't overheating you it's just like giving you life a wash of light right exactly

34:31and that's i feel like that is solar that's solar too the thing that i love about it is that

34:37we can

34:37have entirely different experiences with the same fragrance and they're both right yes right that's what i

34:43love and there's nothing wrong in fragrance there's nothing wrong you can both have your own journeys

34:49and they both make sense and they're both just for you i really feel like solar fragrances overall are

34:55very like high spring or peak summer i really love that you're saying that they're deep like dry sahara

35:03and i'm like yeah i love like the rolling hills and like frolicking and rolling down just like the

35:07grass i think it's perfect and i love the concept of that i do not like the season of summer

35:13it's way

35:13too hot for me i'm a fall person i really really love fall and i feel like a season can

35:18sometimes be

35:19like summed up in a scent and i'd love to know like what does fall smell like to you

35:25fall smells like cider and like leather jackets and a good scarf and apple picking very apple forward

35:35yeah and just the best outfits happen in fall the best outfits do happen in fall and i feel like

35:40every

35:41outfit eats a little drink yeah and for me that's always a pumpkin chai and i'm also and literally

35:47that's why i am so so so obsessed i'm so obsessed and cannot resist eos's pumpkin chai right now and

35:55i'm like who is this girl who is this girl that likes pumpkin chai because i feel like i don't

35:58fit

35:59the pumpkin chai girl and i would love to know how you would describe her personality she's always

36:05extremely moisturized and she'll she'll look good for a very long time because of it 100 and she has

36:14her food that's perfectly seasoned she actually knows how to season she knows how to season her

36:18food because it's spicy like the spice of of a pumpkin chai like you need to know how to do

36:23it we

36:24should just smell her right now can you grab it for us incredible thank you oh my gosh this to

36:31me i love

36:32fall and this is just like the coziest girl ever this is just the girl that's going to have personally

36:39i've always wanted to be the girl that can have the photo shoot you know what i mean i want

36:45the

36:45photo shoot with my dog and my cats i don't have a dog i want it with my cats multiple

36:49locations i want

36:50multiple locations the the pinterest board is sent out six weeks in advance the light has to be right

36:55it has a whole run of show you have matching sweaters we do have matching sweaters that's just

37:01appropriate she should stay in fall and winter because we need to anticipate her for fall and winter

37:05you know when something something smells good when you like feel like you're just gonna like

37:09snort it oh yeah where you're like and then you squeeze some on your yeah i almost squeezed too

37:13hard and some like jumped out at me it smells gorgeous but layering this in the 24-hour body

37:19lotion and the cashmere mist because there's like a little mist so i mean you don't need to layer

37:23different smelling person in the room so eos's pumpkin chai is out now and you can find it in stores

37:29or

37:30evolution of smooth.com arabelle it's been such a pleasure talking to you because i feel like i can be

37:34my

37:35true true true true freaky perfume person when i'm with you because freaking me the freaking you

37:41we are one our freaks unite exactly and sometimes i think people are a little bit nervous to get

37:50freaky with their fragrances i always tell people my favorite way to smell is mommy in charge

37:56mommy in charge yeah mommy in charge but that doesn't mean you know weird or salacious but it's

38:03just like there's a specific smell when you know when your mom gives you that look

38:07and you're like i need to i need to behave i need to collect myself exactly and you know that

38:11when

38:11you're three it's like deep in the brain that's how i like to smell and i want to know what

38:16do you

38:16like to smell like like is there a scent that you're yearning for that doesn't really have to

38:20do with notes but it's just like kind of freaky and different for me i like to smell

38:28kind of intimidating okay i never want to smell like sexy cool hot i want to smell like a divine

38:35goddess yes that has deigned to make a presence okay in the room okay that you must fear and revere

38:41and respect revere reverence yes i want reverence i don't want to be objectified i want to be devoted

38:48and worshiped you know like there's a difference there um so for me i like smells i like perfumes that

38:55promise like feelings of like nostalgia or deja vu or something one of my favorites is like actually

39:03based on like alien abduction stories so say more so it i think it i don't even remember what it's

39:09called it has a very long name um but it was literally the perfumer interviewed a bunch of

39:14people that were abducted by aliens or allegedly you know emphasis and his perfume is based on their

39:21interviews and experiences and when i smelled that i got like asmr tingles yes and i was like this

39:27feels oddly familiar she's like i've been abducted it was crazy yeah there's definitely lower i definitely

39:33have a mystery scar on my back that no one can explain so you know the lower kind of clocks

39:37in the lower basta box

39:38oh

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