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00:00So, Lyme and I, I obviously care about how Browns fans feel.
00:04And sometimes I don't get it all right.
00:06Like, sometimes I take the wrong temperature.
00:09The booing, I did not think that you were going to boo so vociferously
00:13in the Bills game on, especially after the rain.
00:18One, I didn't even think he'd play.
00:20Two, when he came out, like, no, there's got to be nobody left there.
00:23They're not going to boo.
00:24No, you booed.
00:24You booed his ass off.
00:26And then you continue to boo.
00:27And then, had he not said what he had said and put a towel over his head
00:32and kind of hid from everybody, who knows what they would have said to him
00:34on the sidelines.
00:35But he did sign some autographs.
00:38And when Todd Munkin made him the starter, like Lyme and I go,
00:41listen, I care about how Browns fans feel.
00:43I feel the same way you do.
00:44I never wanted to see him play for the Browns again.
00:46But if I were the head coach of the Browns and I were privy to the information
00:50that Todd Munkin has, that, yeah, I would probably have to make the decision
00:54to start Deshaun Watson.
00:56And none of that had to do with ownership or a directive or any of that stuff.
01:00Lyme and I are lockstep on that.
01:03However, there is somebody out there that you won't believe has come to Browns fans'
01:08defense in some way.
01:09It is Mike Florio.
01:12NBC hit it.
01:14You got to make the best decision for the Browns.
01:16And I'm not saying that football decisions should also be made with the broader
01:22business interests of the franchise in mind.
01:25But sometimes they are.
01:26And if there was ever a case to make a football decision that it's close and let's see,
01:33the fans love one guy and the fans hate the other guy.
01:35Why wouldn't that be a factor?
01:37Why wouldn't you consider that when you're determining what's best for the Browns?
01:41Because it's not just X's and O's.
01:43It's not just, can we win this week?
01:45It's not interchangeable parts.
01:46You know, there's no NFL coach, not even Belichick, who would play different quarterbacks
01:51based on which one gives it the best chance of winning the next game.
01:55There's a broader picture in mind.
01:57And I think it would have been appropriate for him to consider, they're going to hate
02:01one decision and going to love the other decision.
02:03They're going to hate me if I make one decision.
02:05They're going to love me if I make the other decision.
02:07All things equal, that should be a fact.
02:09Audio courtesy of NBC and Pro Football Talk.
02:12The thing with what Florio says is, I think Todd did.
02:18Remember, we got a text, when was he hired?
02:19January 28th?
02:21I think he did.
02:22When we get a text saying, hey, he likes Watson, and I would say that Watson's going to be the
02:28starter.
02:29When we get that, the day he was hired, or actually, yes, the morning he was hired.
02:35And then you make it a competition, I think he was.
02:39Because he could have just went in there and said, Deshaun Watson's the starter.
02:43We're moving forward.
02:44It's my football team.
02:45I'm making the decision.
02:46Deshaun Watson's the starter.
02:48And I do think that there was something there to like, hey, we got to have a competition
02:51here.
02:51Because I think there was a football decision in there.
02:54And I also think that, yeah, you probably take the way things are into account going,
03:01hey, if you want to make him the court, like this still goes along with what we've been
03:04talking about, where we do believe, you and I believe, everybody's getting it wrong about,
03:08Jimmy made the call.
03:09Jimmy's forcing him to do it.
03:11He's making too much money.
03:12And I said, guys, he will bring $40 million in here and set it on fire on live YouTube
03:16for you guys right now if it meant winning one more football game.
03:20And Lyme agrees.
03:21Do you or do you not?
03:23Yeah.
03:23Okay.
03:25And I think that there was something where, let's see if this guy can take the job from
03:30Deshaun Watson.
03:31Let's see if he can do it.
03:32And he gave him that chance.
03:33I think he was considering the fans.
03:35I think he was considering how things have been over these last couple years when he decides
03:40to have that competition.
03:41You know, we talked about the honeymoon evaporated very quickly when it comes to the head coach.
03:46And it feels like a lot of people are very annoyed by this.
03:49But can you also simultaneously have a little bit more respect for him not buckling to the
03:56whims of the fans when the fans aren't there every day?
03:59The fans can all, we, and I include us, we can all think that we're experts because we
04:04see some video out of camp and see some highlights.
04:07But that's not, that's not quarterback play.
04:09That's not understanding, you know, who your team is in and out and, you know, getting them
04:13ready and all the stuff that we've heard about the edge that Deshaun Watson has over
04:17Shador at this stage, maybe that edge gets nullified in a few weeks, you know, in a month,
04:22who knows?
04:23But right now that coach thinks there is that edge, because if it was the inverse, if he
04:29would have, you know, declared Shador the starter, and then he would never do this, but then
04:36admit, yeah, he's behind, but younger, he's the future.
04:41He's not as good as Deshaun.
04:43That would have irked people in the locker room if that were the case.
04:45If all of what I just said was the case in this example, but fans would have loved the
04:51decision, but would have also been like, all right, he's not really doing the best to,
04:55to, to allow them to try to win or put a winning product on the field right now.
05:02Understood.
05:03But I have to, I have to take Todd's side of it because I have to look at the realism
05:07of it.
05:08He's been, the story came out, like Harbaugh was telling him, you don't want to go there.
05:11Don't go there.
05:12Come, come over here.
05:13Be the offensive coordinator.
05:15Like that story was out there.
05:16You think he was saying good things about the quarterback room?
05:19John Harbaugh was.
05:20So we know what the rest of the NFL thinks of this quarterback room guys.
05:23So he knew what he was going into.
05:25So he still opened up that competition.
05:27So there's still something there where he had to have known that people were going to
05:32be upset.
05:32He ain't, he is not closed off to what the fans say.
05:35The guy's on Twitter for crying out loud.
05:37Like he's not closed off to what the, what a lot of the fans think he knew was going to
05:40be an unpopular decision.
05:42And he may, and this week, and this is why I can't just go away from what Fanta says as
05:47much as I don't want to talk about the possibilities of one and done.
05:51And I don't, and I'm annoyed by it.
05:52And I think it's, I thought that when he was first hired and people wanted to bring it
05:56up, I found it to be ghoulish.
05:59He knows in the back of his mind, these jobs, they come and go.
06:03And there's things that lead up to it where you may only get one crack at this and one
06:07year to do this.
06:08And he's got to make the decision that he thinks is best.
06:11And he can't give a damn in the end.
06:14He could consider it then, but he can't consider it when making the decision that it's going
06:18to make the guys on the radio or guys in the stands or anybody else upset because it
06:22did.
06:22Well, the bed is made and now we got to see whether or not that they're going to actually
06:26go out there and play well.
06:27And I don't think they will with him.
06:30Hopefully I'm wrong because what we've seen, that's a broken quarterback.
06:35And we sound like broken records, always having to say it because we all see it.
06:39Now the, this, you're not going to like this, but I keep hearing that everybody's like, well,
06:44we know Deshaun's not going to play well.
06:46I kind of figure like, I kind of feel like should or we would have known that too.
06:49I do not think he would have played well either.
06:50And just especially because Munkin doesn't think he's ahead on all these little things that
06:54matter.
06:55So even if he's a better thrower of the football right now and can let it, let it loose a
07:00little bit down the field.
07:01Like I would not have expected him to be in great shapes.
07:04Also Jacksonville has tape on him.
07:06Now last year's teams didn't have the benefit of having tape on them.
07:08You brought up.
07:10Should or you didn't say you said if they would have pictured or as a starter, it wouldn't
07:14be much better.
07:15I would not have thought any differently about the state of affairs for the team.
07:19Vegas would have agreed.
07:20Vegas did not change their number based on Deshaun Watson.
07:24I think only in Cleveland and notably on the radio are people saying that we're doomed in
07:31the opener because it's Deshaun.
07:33When around the country, they would have said the exact same thing for Shador.
07:36Yeah.
07:37So, and what were you going to say?
07:38You wouldn't have thought any differently.
07:40You wouldn't have any look towards hope at all.
07:47If it was Shador over Deshaun.
07:49Him on Shador?
07:51Why?
07:51I think he would have been more exciting throwing the football down the field.
07:54So it would have been different.
07:55That's not necessarily winning football.
07:57But it would have been different.
07:58Like in fact, I could make the argument.
08:00I mean, this is as glummy as we've been in forever.
08:01Here's what I'm saying.
08:03If Todd, if Todd and the things that go into the decision making, if you were to respect
08:07the head coach and think he knows something about what's going on behind the scenes, I'd
08:12be nervous about all the other things.
08:14Like, yeah, he might be able to land a big throw that Deshaun couldn't do.
08:19But that's like Johnny Manziel territory.
08:21Manziel could do that better than Hoyer could.
08:24Well, yeah, Travis Benjamin.
08:25Then we have Casey Concepcion.
08:27So, I mean, yeah, Hoyer couldn't do some of the things Johnny could do and keep plays
08:31alive.
08:32But the mechanics of every play, like you would trust Hoyer.
08:37Now, it's not that I have a ton of trust on Deshaun Watson.
08:39But if you have any respect for the head coach, then you have to believe that he thinks Deshaun
08:46can do that.
08:46All the little things that you talk about all the time, Kenny.
08:49Yes.
08:49So, yeah, it doesn't sound like Shador is ready to do those things.
08:54So, I would have picked us to probably lose in the opener.
08:56What I can try to push back on here.
08:59I mean, what you're saying makes a ton of sense here.
09:00I have to admit that.
09:02Because I've said a bunch of times, if I'm privy to the information that's being leaked
09:07out about, you know, not knowing necessarily the cadence, not knowing where guys are supposed
09:13to line up, things like that.
09:14Like, I can't fight that.
09:15You know, I can have a guy who can throw the ball through the wall.
09:17If he can't get guys lined up, we're not doing anything.
09:20All you are is a parlor trick.
09:22The only thing I could bring up, gosh, it's actually hard.
09:26I thought I could fight you on it.
09:28And I wish you wouldn't have played that damn last part of that clip because it's hard
09:31to bring up.
09:32But the term gamer is looked at as a nasty thing, a negative thing.
09:38I'm not trying to do that.
09:39I did think after the Baltimore game last year where he came in in the second half, and I
09:44understand things settled down for him as the game went on.
09:47And yeah, if Gage Larry Vedan would have held on, might have been different.
09:52I thought after that game, it was going to be an out-and-out disaster, and it wasn't.
09:57There were games that were rough on him, certainly.
09:59Absolutely.
10:00But I thought it was going to be an out-and-out disaster.
10:03There is something there.
10:06But I also go with what Owen had just said.
10:09There have been some people, I knew this was going to happen.
10:11I've been waiting for it, and it's happening.
10:13You know, I look at social media, not as much as you have here over these last few months,
10:17and not as much as I have in recent years, because I didn't think it was going to be
10:22very good this year.
10:23And I've started to see some people try to get me to wave the pom-poms, try to get me
10:29to tell them things that I just don't believe.
10:32You know, that this team's going to win 10 games.
10:34I'm just, I'm not going to lie to anybody.
10:36Like, I'm finding, I always will look for a silver lining no matter what.
10:41I'm guilty as charged on that.
10:43And I will say, yeah, if you can do this, this, and this, I can see their lives.
10:47Okay, you've created this mess on the offensive line.
10:50You've tried to fix it on the offensive line by getting some free agents, drafting Spencer
10:56Fano, and getting guys that aren't just free agents but can move around, because it would
11:00be great at the end of the season to be starting Fano, Brailsford, and Barber and have confidence
11:05in them by the time we drop another QB in there.
11:08The whole thing with Watson.
11:09Yeah, what he said a few weeks ago was asinine.
11:13And yeah, there was a lot of people who rightfully wanted him cut.
11:16They were done with this garbage.
11:18But I can't do it because I need to support the next QB.
11:21So I keep trying to look for the silver lining.
11:23But there's nothing here that tells me I'm going to lie to people and say that, well,
11:27we're just a quarterback away.
11:28We're not.
11:29We're a quarterback and a draft and free agency and depth away.
11:33I'm not going to lie to people and say, well, we're going to actually surprise everybody.
11:36And I like what they're doing.
11:37And they're going to win 10 games.
11:38No, if they win 10 games, there's going to be some luck involved.
11:42There's going to be some guys that I just can't believe how well they're doing, including
11:46the quarterbacks.
11:48Because one of the things that people keep saying, like, I don't know where any other
11:51show stands on where they are with the win totals.
11:53I haven't heard a lot of Baskin and Phelps about it.
11:55And I can't nail the other guys to the wall.
11:57They're like jello.
11:58So I can't get them on anything.
12:00We'll get it tonight.
12:00The fan anniversary.
12:01Yeah, and I'm sure I'll be told I'm taking them out of context even then.
12:04So it won't even matter.
12:05You say four.
12:06I say five.
12:07That's where I've stuck since I saw Deshaun Watson.
12:10I was at six before that.
12:11I'm firmly on five.
12:13That's where I stand on it.
12:14And I still think some positives can be taken.
12:16And there's still some folks who hear that and they think that that's way too many.
12:19And they want it even lower.
12:20So this season isn't about enjoyment of this season.
12:24It's about getting through it.
12:26Or it's not about winning and competing for the ultimate prize.
12:29It's really about trying to find some silver linings and enjoying it.
12:32That's a long way to say it.
12:33I know that.
12:33So Shador Sanders, they don't want to see the other guy.
12:37They're that nasty about the other guy.
12:39With him, even if you don't like the fans or the bots and the burners that are going after you
12:45on social media,
12:47you're still curious.
12:49You want to see.
12:50He has a, regardless of how many people I think are just fake and not real on that website,
12:56he does have a strong fan base.
12:58You want to know whether or not those people are right.
13:01You already know about Deshaun Watson.
13:03Sure, but that, I want to get back to the central question, which is, if he was starting,
13:08would you have a different outlook in the early part of the season or the whole season?
13:13See, what I am hearing when I tune in to, say, Nick and Jonathan, and I'll ask them later tonight,
13:18but when I tune in, they make it sound like one guy is way up here and the other guy
13:24is way down here.
13:25And I'm like, man, if that were the case, he'd be starting.
13:29Like, it wouldn't matter what the contracts were.
13:31Like, Todd Munkin would go with the guy that's way up here.
13:34And they're discounting all those little things that the coaches tell you that matter every single day.
13:40And again, anybody outside of Cleveland is not doing that.
13:44They're all like, well, why would you start, Deshaun, if it's close, if it's a tie?
13:49One is young, one is older.
13:51But that's different from the actual football.
13:54And the coach that is there every day doesn't mean he's not wrong.
13:57Coach can be wrong.
13:58We've seen coaches be wrong before.
13:59But then just say, you just don't trust Todd Munkin.
14:02You think he's an idiot or you think he's...
14:05Where does the trusted Todd conversation come from?
14:07If you think he's off on this to this degree, then you probably don't even want him as the head
14:10coach.
14:11Let's be fair here.
14:12Well, no, if he's an offense...
14:12Well, excuse me, yes.
14:14I mean, if they feel that way, that's the way it is.
14:16When I hear people dance around that conversation like, oh, I just think he's wrong on this.
14:20No, if you think he can't handle this decision, then just admit,
14:23you don't want him to be the head coach of the football team.
14:25No, I don't like the conversation.
14:27I don't like that we have to have it about Deshaun Watson.
14:30But I don't think that Todd Munkin's a total, complete, imbecile boob for making the decision.
14:36There's plenty of things that are smart that I don't like.
14:40Or plenty of things that we have to do that I don't like.
14:42And this is probably one of them.
14:43So I don't hate it.
14:44But I think for Shador, there is this curiosity, and it's not a good argument.
14:51I can't give you a cogent argument on it.
14:52Is that curiosity just because he hasn't played that many games?
14:55And so you'd have that same curiosity for any young quarterback except for Dylan Gabriel?
14:58Part of it.
14:59Part of it it is.
15:00Part of it is that he's raised a level before of another team that was in college.
15:05I understand that.
15:05But he's raised that level.
15:07And maybe he was.
15:08Maybe he was just a product of his environment.
15:10Maybe it was just, hey, you got a hot hand.
15:12You had Travis Hunter.
15:13You had Horn.
15:14You had other guys there.
15:15And maybe this is different.
15:17I'm not sure.
15:18But I'm still curious to see.
15:21Like, I'm steadfast.
15:23Like, we made our 10 quarterbacks yesterday to watch for a very specific reason.
15:30I think that most folks just want something they can be interested in and maybe even get behind.
15:34I'd be more interested.
15:36Honestly.
15:36I agree.
15:37I'm not that interested in the Deshaun Watson comeback story.
15:40I've tried to be.
15:41You don't believe there is one.
15:42Yeah.
15:42I've tried to be open-minded about it.
15:45I do think they are going to utilize his legs in a way that I do not think they will.
15:50Not that Shador is a statue.
15:52But that they will incorporate it into the offense.
15:54You wouldn't do that with Shador.
15:56That's not really his game.
15:57You're not running a lot of RPO.
15:59You're not getting him out trying to, you know, read linebackers on whether or not to go.
16:04Like, you're just not doing that.
16:05Yeah.
16:05I try to be open-minded to it until he threw a bunch of interceptions to substitute teachers
16:10who are going to be on high school coaching staffs next year.
16:12Todd did not seem moved by that at all.
16:13He kind of made it sound like throw that away, discard it, not a big deal.
16:17And we will find out whether or not it's a big deal this coming Sunday.
16:20Because I guarantee you, if he does the same thing, it's going to be a real big deal.
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