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Ascensão da extrema-direita: quem é responsável? Eurodeputados confrontam-se no The Ring
Atenções centradas nas eleições no estado alemão da Saxónia-Anhalt; uma possível maioria absoluta da extrema-direita pode abalar a política alemã e inquietar a Europa. Será o início de uma nova crise?
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/09/04/ascensao-da-extrema-direita-quem-e-responsavel-eurodeputados-confrontam-se-no-the-ring
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Atenções centradas nas eleições no estado alemão da Saxónia-Anhalt; uma possível maioria absoluta da extrema-direita pode abalar a política alemã e inquietar a Europa. Será o início de uma nova crise?
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/09/04/ascensao-da-extrema-direita-quem-e-responsavel-eurodeputados-confrontam-se-no-the-ring
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
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NotíciasTranscrição
00:00Transcrição e Legendas por Quero Volucido
00:08Olá e welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show
00:12Broadcasting from the European Parliament in Brussels
00:15I'm Stefan Grobe
00:17On The Ring, debaters go face to face
00:20On some of the biggest political issues facing the EU
00:24Today, we want to talk about the state election in East Germany
00:27que possui o potencial de fazer a política de alemã política e pode afetar a Europa e o mundo.
00:34Luís Albertos contou por você, por que todos os olhos estão no Saxony-Anhalt.
00:42Saxony-Anhalt é um país pequeno em esterno de Alemã,
00:45mas, no dia, pode ser o centro de uma política política.
00:49O Partido de A.F.D. é polindo mais de 40%,
00:52longe de Friedrich Merz's cristian-democrats.
00:56O Partido de A.F.D. é um caminho para governar a Alemã,
01:00para a primeira vez na época do post-war era.
01:02O Partido de A.F.D. é um dos mais importantes políticos em moderno Alemã
01:07e enviar um poderoso signal para a Europa.
01:09A mais forte A.F.D. é um mais forte combate sobre a migração,
01:13política política e apoio para a Ucrânia,
01:16e um mais difícil para a Europa para a Europa,
01:19em um momento em que a Europa já está enfrentando enorme geopolítica pressão.
01:23Então, é Saxony-Anhalt simplesmente expressa frustração com a política estabilidade?
01:29Ou é o momento em que witness a turning point para a Alemã e, portanto, para a Europa?
01:36Então, há muito a unpackagem aqui para os contadores, e aqui eles estão!
01:42Hildegard Bentele, a German MEP do Centro-Right Europeu People's Party.
01:46Em o Parlamento Europeu, ela é vice-chair da Comité de Development,
01:50e a membro da Comité de Industria, Research e Energia.
01:53Ela também chairs a delegation for relations com Israel.
01:55Ela diz que,
01:56As cristian-democratas,
01:58we are convinced that the only way to counter the rise of the far-right in Saxony-Anhalt,
02:02in Germany,
02:03and across Europe,
02:04is listening closely to people,
02:05offering realistic solutions and presenting,
02:07based on our values,
02:09an optimistic vision for the future.
02:11Jean-Marc Germain,
02:13a French MEP from the Socialists and Democrats.
02:15An economist by training,
02:17he is a former advisor to former Prime Minister of France,
02:20Lionel Jospin,
02:20and one of the main figures within the Socialists and Democrats group in the European Parliament.
02:25He said,
02:26As long as Europe fails to build economic sovereignty,
02:28the far-right will thrive in the regions devastated by globalization and deindustrialization.
02:35So, let me welcome to the ring Hildegard Bentele and Jean-Marc Germain.
02:40Thank you for coming,
02:41great to have you here,
02:43good to see you both.
02:45The aim of the ring is to offer our viewers a glimpse at European Parliament debates,
02:50so you should feel right at home.
02:53Are you ready?
02:53I'm ready.
02:54Great.
02:55I'm ready.
02:55So, let me start with you, Hildegard.
02:57You're from Germany,
02:58and I want to start with the central dilemma here.
03:03Why is the political center losing voters for years now?
03:08Because we are in a difficult general, difficult political situation, geopolitically,
03:14also economically, the situation in Germany is difficult for the last seven years.
03:19We didn't have a growth in the German economy, so people are very concerned about jobs,
03:26also about the geopolitical risks.
03:28We have a war at our borders, so people feel insecure.
03:33And so we have to give, resolve concrete political questions, also internal questions with regard to
03:41reforms of our social system, of our health system.
03:44And of course, we have to tackle migration, which has become a bigger problem since 2015.
03:49That all sounds familiar when I look to France, Jean-Marc. No political growth, economic problems,
03:57job insecurity, healthcare issues, etc. So, what's the view from France?
04:03I think that exactly the same things are driving the rise of the far-rights. There are a lot of
04:09reasons,
04:10but if I may point just one that I think is key is the industrialization. If you compare
04:19the scores of the far-rights at the last national elections or kind of national election, which was
04:25the European elections, the score of the far-rights in France is clearly proportional to the industrialization.
04:34For example, the far-right is at 42%, exactly as the situation of the pool in Saxony-Alts
04:46France. So, for me, the solution is not to say to people you're wrong to look at far-rights,
04:54but to try to solve their issue. And for me, the biggest challenge of Europe, national government,
05:02but also European Union is trying to make Europe a strong and sovereign economy.
05:11I mean, if you look at the parties of the political centers who have for decades in the post-war
05:16era,
05:17you've guaranteed political stability, economic prosperity, etc., etc., and all of a sudden,
05:23there is trust that is lacking. I wonder whether this is rather the center-left or the center-right who
05:33is responsible for this. Hildegard, what do you think?
05:36Well, I would not finger-point at one or the other. We need each other, and I think that's the
05:43central
05:43message, at least for Germany, because we are far away from times when we had absolute
05:48majority. That was the case only once with Pannat Adenauer. So, if we are used to go into
05:53coalitions, I know France is completely different, but this is why we are still, you know, governing,
05:58and we are currently in a coalition with the Social Democrats, like we have been for many times,
06:04and we have a very comprehensive reform package ahead of us which we are going to tackle now. And I
06:09wish
06:10the same would happen in France, but I have to admit that the French conservatives are the weaker part.
06:17Right. There's no spirit of collaboration and coalition in France, right? Why is that so?
06:23I think that first, the right in France has turned to be kind of close to the far right,
06:32and is, as it was said, decreasing. So, even if we would try to make a coalition with the right,
06:41it doesn't make the numbers to win the election. Second is for me that maybe we made a center-left
06:49and
06:49center-right, a common mistake in the 90s, 20s, is that we saw that globalization would bring
06:59a better life in Europe. And it turns that it's not the case, because globalization works when there
07:07is cooperation, but now there is competition, and even worse. And it's the reason I was speaking of
07:16the industrialization that we lose control of our economies. And for us, and maybe as socialists
07:24and social democrats, because our way of thinking is more eager to take control of the economy,
07:33we are maybe in advance, not in the pool, but still in the way of thinking. And I think that
07:39the big job
07:40to do for the center-right is to admit that globalization is not working and that Europe has to develop
07:48a
07:48strong industry to use the tools to control the economy and not to go, as we do now, still into
08:00a
08:00race of trade agreement and free trade. Bringing the famous firewall, right? So the design by the parties
08:10of the center to get together to prevent the far right or far left from taking over and coming into
08:19power.
08:20Is this still a workable solution? Or if not, what happens if the firewall crumbles?
08:30Well, first of all, I would wish that there's a firewall against both extremes. We have it against
08:36right now, but it's not the case with our partners. There is no socialist firewall to the far left,
08:42which is also very radical anti-Semite, anti-European, anti-NATO, anti-military support of Ukraine.
08:49So I think, I mean, for us, it's a very principled stance. It's not a political strategy, but you know,
08:54the far right contradicts our fundamental values, our policy choices. Like, as I said, we are pro-European,
09:02anti-Russia. We are pro-democracy. We have a clear stance on our Nazi past.
09:08So, and they want to destroy us. So their main goal is to destroy us. So why? So it's a
09:14very
09:14principled stance. But our political strategy is, of course, to combat the party politically with our
09:20better arguments, with our better solutions. But it's a principled stance. And I think it's a good stance.
09:26Jean-Marc, what's the French position here? I mean, are we at a stage now where this is all obsolete?
09:32No, for sure not. And in France, there is a part of the rights that made deals with the far
09:40rights,
09:41but still main parties, right-wing parties and center-right parties still apply the firewall.
09:48But we have to be very clear. It's not a firewall against people. We don't deny what they say,
09:55against parties. It's about, one, the fact that the far-right party taking the power in Europe would
10:03be a disaster. And we saw what happened with Urban. We saw what happened with the peace in Poland. We
10:11know
10:12that it starts with the end of rule of law in those countries, the end of fundamental liberties.
10:19And then the economic problems arise because those parties want to leave Europe, basically,
10:25even if they don't say. So what we have to do is to solve the issue of people. And of
10:31course,
10:32we all want to do it. But my main message, if we don't tackle the issue of globalization and
10:41all the problems that arise, less jobs. But if there are less jobs, there is less money for local
10:48authorities. So less public services, less hospital and people feel abandoned. And we have to solve that.
10:54I also like to underline that, you know, the far-left also poses a lot of problems. I mean,
11:01in France, we've got to the disastrous financial situation of France, highly indebted. So Mr.
11:07Mélenchon proposes just to cancel the debt or the interest. You know, I mean, it's crazy.
11:11So, and I can say it for Berlin, you know, the far-left who might, you know, win the mayorship
11:17in Berlin in three weeks' time is openly antisemitic, wants to nationalize. And so, I mean,
11:25these are not solutions we can have at the European, regional and national level. So we should,
11:32you know, be very careful on both sides. So I would be happy, you know, that we talk very concretely
11:40about firewalls against agreements and a better cooperation in the center, because unfortunately,
11:46Jean-Marc was not very clear about it. I think it should even the question to France, how much
11:49you can better cooperate on pension reforms, which are essential for France, which cannot be advanced,
11:55because, you know, single group interests prevail over the common interests and over the European
12:01interests. And then you attacked trade agreements. I mean, trade agreements are the
12:05co-competence of the European Union. If you undermine it with the extremes and put a nationalist
12:12stance before it, this is not helpful. Points well taken. I'm sure we come back to this issue,
12:17but let me stop you there, as we're just getting warmed up. And it's now time for gloves off.
12:27Now we want viewers to get a real flavor of the European Parliament chamber, where members ask each
12:33other questions. So let's get started. And Hildegard, I want to start with you. Your first question to
12:38Jean-Marc. Yeah, Jean-Marc, I mean, we are at halftime in the European Parliament. And I think there is
12:43the need
12:43to renew our cooperation and the platform, what we used to have, which can be better activated. I think
12:50because we have challenges ahead of us with regard to the security challenge, economic challenge,
12:56as you said, migration again. So what is your personal commitment to this cooperation between
13:02the center right, which is us, Christian Democrats and the social Democrats, and of course, the liberals?
13:08Well, I'm ready to do it. And even more than that, I would wish that the rights
13:16in this house will stop to pick and choose the far right when it's needed for migration, for example,
13:25files, and the center left when the far right is not there. So really, if we can do it, not
13:32only
13:33fight by fight, but really with a direction that we want to follow together would be really important.
13:41But again, we have to decide what we want to do together.
13:48Now, your question to Hildegard. No, my question, and sorry, maybe to repeat,
13:53but I think that we have to have simple ideas in politics, is that when CDU, your party,
14:01would understand that the industrialization and social decline are fueling AFD,
14:09and that your agenda of globalization is only making it stronger?
14:17Well, I mean, I think there's a difference. We don't have an agenda of globalization,
14:21but we have an agenda of open markets, that's for sure. And we have one difference,
14:25that the trade agreements, which I maybe heard you oppose in general, which we strongly support,
14:30because it gives a lot of chances, can be put in figures, the chances for our European industry,
14:36with the Mercosur, with the Vietnamese, Australian, whatever. I mean, this is just a benefit.
14:41If you look at the trade agreement with Canada, which is even beneficial for French farmers,
14:46but you have not yet taken the, you know, serious stance, and to defend it back home,
14:51I don't understand. I think we should be more serious about that. This is a clear benefit.
14:56I mean, I'm in favor of, you know, supporting more our industry, because we need support,
15:02because there's unfair competition. I fully agree. But we have limited resources. You talked about
15:06the budget. The budget will not be bigger. It might be smaller. I think that's the realistic,
15:12that's the realistic perspective. And in France, your resources are limited to support industry by money.
15:20So we need to do it through regulation. And here we need to take bold steps. And we only cooperate.
15:28We would always go first for the support for Social Democrats. But on crucial files like migration,
15:34this is the reason why the far right has risen so much, because we haven't solved the migration fail
15:40for years, because we lack support of the Social Democrats. And we will also, if we continue to lack
15:45support for economic measures, which help our industry. It's our responsibility to do it together.
15:52All right. Thanks for this interesting.
15:53Maybe a follow-up question, just very shortly.
15:55Very shortly.
15:56Because I'm in charge of the budget in this house for the Social Democrats. And your chancellor
16:02wants to reduce by 400 million the commission proposal. How do you want to re-industrialize
16:08without money at European level?
16:10But it's not all about money. This is what I said. We have limited resources. We have to invest our
16:15money into our defense, as we know. We have new tasks which we didn't perceive at that moment, but
16:22they are priorities. We have to set priorities. This is why we reform our pension system, our health
16:28core, because they are too costly. We cannot afford this anymore. We have to set priorities. But I'm with you
16:34to set priorities to revive our industry. All right. Now, that's a very tricky issue here. We'll be
16:40following the budgetary debates, of course, until the end of the year. Now, we have heard the views
16:45from our guests. It's time now to hear from a new voice. I would like to bring in German Chancellor
16:55Friedrich Merz, who is trying to stave off an AFD victory by warning against possible economic consequences.
17:02During the campaign a couple of days ago, he said this, and I quote,
17:08I cannot imagine international investors still showing up for a groundbreaking ceremony with an
17:14AFD state premier to establish new plans or set up new businesses in Saxony-Anhalt. Saxony-Anhalt must
17:21not become an experimental field for angry citizens. Now, will this convince the 40 plus minus percent of
17:32voters who are angry? Hildegard? Well, I think, you know, partly the concerns of citizens in Saxony-Anhalt are
17:40economic. It's about jobs. It's about rural areas which have been abandoned. That is true. This is why we need
17:45investments.
17:47Absolutely. Now, this is clear. But we have another, I think, part which we also should take more into consideration.
17:53You know, I know Sven Schulze very well. He used to be a former colleague here in the parliament who
17:56is,
17:57you know, the top candidate of CDU. And he says he never talked so much about culture, media, identity before.
18:03And I think this is a very crucial point. We have to tackle much more, you know, to talk about
18:08values, about,
18:09you know, the fears, because the far right is inciting fear. It's talking about, you know,
18:17catastrophic scenarios, painting the world. Inciting fear. Jean-Marc, there's a similar situation in France
18:23with the far right maybe taking over next year. Is the same risk present in France? Will investors,
18:34foreign investors, stay away from France if there is a far right president?
18:40Yes, for sure. But it's not that because it's true, what the councillor is saying, that it will convince people.
18:50So really people first turn to the far right because they think that other politicians don't have any
19:00solutions. So we have to be convincing about our solution. That's why I think that Europe is a convincing
19:07solution. And if AFD or National Front Rassemblement in France would take the power, their first thing is to go
19:17out of Europe, the very institution that can solve, for example, the industrialization problem. So we have to say
19:26in Germany or in France, we are going to build new cars here in Saxony and Alt. But how are
19:32you, are we going to do?
19:34We are going to make the European preference a reality. And I think it's really key. We have to say
19:41people what will happen and we have to raise credible solutions. All right. Let's take a break here on
19:49The Ring. We'll be back with more. After this, don't go away.
20:02Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show. I'm Stefan Grobe and I'm joined by Jean-Marc Germain
20:08from the Socialists and Democrats from France and Hildegard Bentele from the European People's Party
20:14from Germany. At this point, let's take a look at the topics that move voters in Saxony and Alt. So
20:21these are
20:22surveys among the electorate in Saxony and Alt. And we see here the top issue and 39% is the
20:28economy,
20:29jobs and wages, followed by infrastructure, depopulation, aging communities. And only then
20:37migration and asylum with 23%, closely followed by education, schools, daycare, a very important topic
20:46during the campaign with 22% and 11% of voters say healthcare. Yet migration has been the most
20:54important battleground in the public debate. Yet the economy and jobs are higher on the agenda.
21:01Why this disconnect? And Saxony and Alt, if I may say, has one of the lowest rates of foreigners in
21:08in Germany, half of the national average. So why should people bother? Because it's the same story
21:16every time in history. When the cake is shrinking, the nationalists say, okay, it's for German first or for
21:25French first or whatever country. So it's very easy to use this argument, but it's false. For example,
21:32your pool is saying that one issue is depopulation. And how do you make population grow again? And also,
21:42how do you provide the companies with workers? It's also by migrations. Second thing is also that
21:50the pool reflects some of the fake news in the public debate. So whatever Mertz will do
21:58at German level or whatever the two of us will do at European level. Maybe people don't see it because
22:05it's completely deformed and transformed by social network. So the reality of and the possibility of
22:16public politicians to be heard by people is really an issue. That's why we have to tackle the issue of
22:24fake
22:24news of also foreign interference. And it's really strong in Germany with Russian trying to ban the
22:32election. It's really important. Sachsen-Anhalt in East Germany has lost about one third of its population
22:38since German unification. That also means that they need, you know, more people, more input. They need
22:45skills from maybe a foreigner. So why is this such a, at times, vicious debate?
22:53Well, the far right is saying we don't need more people. You know, the German population could shrink.
22:58That's not a problem. Or we would prefer, you know, German women to give birth to more kids.
23:03Well, that would be an economic problem in the future, right?
23:05This is also what Orban policy was, you know, to insight, you know, Germans to get more kids,
23:10which is a point which we should consider, you know, to be, to make a more family-friendly
23:15policies. I think this is, you know, also our task as centrist parties. But of course, I mean,
23:21this is why we need to give serious answers to the, you know, economic, industrial challenges
23:25of the people, to democracy. And, you know, the far right only puts everything that's a scapegoat,
23:31you know, the migrant, that's a scapegoat. But I want to say one thing. Why migration is so
23:36high on the agenda? You know, it's not the, the, the, the, the normal general migrant,
23:41but it's, we have, we had attacks in Germany often by refugees, which didn't have a right to
23:47stay still in Germany. So, and this happened more and more often. I saw it in Berlin, like,
23:52you know, three weeks ago at the pride. So there is a real, you know, feeling of insecurity. And this
24:00affects not only, you know, far right voters, this affects the whole German population. I think it's the
24:06same in France, that people don't feel secure anymore. And this is why we have to tackle
24:11the issue of migration and to deal with illegal migration, to control better who comes to our
24:17countries and what kind of values those who came here and who stayed here, you know, present.
24:24Because we have a real problem of parallel societies of people, mainly from Islamistic background,
24:29who do not embrace at all our values, equality of men and women and so on.
24:34Do you agree with her?
24:35Where I don't agree is to put an equal thing or we, that's not exactly what you did,
24:41but that's what the far right is, is doing between insecurity and immigration. There is no link at all.
24:48There is a link, of course, with poverty, because when people have nothing, there is small insecurity
24:54related to that, but there is no, no link. And maybe in France, what is different that,
25:00is that integration is still working a little bit, even if we have issues. So what we will wear in
25:09the
25:09next election is to say to young people coming from abroad and being now French that you are France
25:21with the value of France. And that's the key for my party, but I guess also for you, for people
25:30coming
25:30from abroad, from generations, to be part, to feel part of the nation.
25:36Okay, now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
25:44As always, we're doing something different now. I'm going to ask you a set of questions
25:51and you can only answer with a yes or no. Could this election in Saxony-Anhalt change
25:59Europe's political balance? No, not at all. And my bet is that the far right will not win.
26:07Okay. No. So at the end of the day, it's not important. It's a regional phenomenon. Okay.
26:12Is the lesson of Saxony-Anhalt that mainstream parties have failed to address voters' fears of
26:18migration, security and economic decline? Yes. Yes.
26:23Can Germany simultaneously reduce immigration and solve its demographic and labor force problems?
26:31We have to and we are committed to. No. No. Okay. For sure, no. I mean,
26:37it's if you have less population, you cannot have more industry. You cannot finance the social security
26:44system. So you will have a different industry. You cannot go back to the past. The system will collapse.
26:49No. You will have artificial intelligence. You will have different jobs, maybe with less people.
26:55Okay. Can you defeat the far right without adopting some of its policies? For sure, and we will.
27:01Yes. But it doesn't mean that we don't have to solve the problems of people. Exactly. That
27:07far right doesn't offer really answers. They just want to go back to times which will never come back.
27:12So no, we don't adapt their ideas. We stick to our ideas. Wonderful conclusion. Thank you very much.
27:19And that final answer brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring. Thanks again to Jean-Marc
27:24Germain and Hildegard Bentele for a lively conversation here from the European Parliament. Thanks to our
27:30audience at home. If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to
27:36theringateuronews.com. That's it for today. I'm Stefan Grobe. Take care and see you soon here on Euronews.
27:43.
27:43.
27:44.
27:45.
27:46.
27:46.
27:46.
27:46.
27:46.
27:46Legenda Adriana Zanotto
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