00:08Joining me this afternoon is French Minister for EU Affairs, Benjamin Haddad.
00:12Minister, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:15Thanks for having me.
00:16Now, this week we really had a development when it came to Russia-European relations
00:21because Berlin formally attributed an attack at Leipzig Airport to Russia.
00:26This is a development because countries have held back from directly blaming Russia.
00:31What do you think this all means?
00:33Well, first, it's very important that we reiterate our full solidarity and support
00:37for the German authorities and German people.
00:39And it's one more episode of Russia's hybrid warfare against Europeans.
00:44But we will never be intimidated in our support for Ukraine.
00:47This is the first test for European security.
00:50And we've only accelerated and increased our support for Ukraine
00:54at the European level in the last month.
00:56Remember where we were just a year and a half ago,
00:59after the Oval Office meeting between President Trump,
01:01President Zelensky, Vice President Vence,
01:03when many people thought that Europeans would stand aside
01:08as Ukraine would be forced into capitulation by a deal signed by Russia and the United States.
01:14On the contrary, we've taken ownership of our own security and defense.
01:17We know that the next winter will be very difficult.
01:20This is why President Macron announced new interceptors that will be sent to Ukraine.
01:24This is also why we're working towards the production under license of capabilities
01:29like the SCAP, the Storm Shadows, and working also with the Americans on the Patriots.
01:35I suppose it's very hard to define the situation we're in now,
01:39because up until now you've had these sort of below-threshold hybrid attacks.
01:42But as we heard from Mark Rutte, the Secretary General of NATO, and Kaya Kalas,
01:46these attacks are becoming much more kinetic, much more frequent, much more violent and reckless.
01:51Are we at war with Russia?
01:53Well, you know, it's not war, but it's certainly not peace.
01:57And this is why we need to continue to increase our effort,
02:01first to bolster our defense against these hybrid attacks.
02:05We know that we're in a world that's much more geopolitically dangerous.
02:09We have adversaries and rivals, and this is why we need to continue to increase the coordination
02:15on the defense and security capabilities of Europeans.
02:18But would you say, though, the situation we're in now is, let's say, vastly different,
02:21even the security situation a year ago, that we're getting much closer to that confrontation?
02:26I think we've known for a long time that we were facing a threat coming from Russia.
02:31And by the way, we just need to listen to the constant questioning of European security,
02:36of the European security architecture coming from the leaders in the Kremlin.
02:41So I think, you know, the most important thing is stay calm, stay the course,
02:46continue to invest in our security and defense, continue the support for Ukraine,
02:49continue the pressure and the economic pressure that we're putting on Russia.
02:55You can see, by the way, what's happening on the battlefield with Ukrainians showing incredible ingeniosity
03:03and innovation on the battlefield with drones.
03:05You can see the success of the long-range strikes.
03:08They're bringing also the war to Russia with the impact that it's having, including on the Russian people.
03:13And, you know, a few weeks ago you had this U.S. assessment that it was possible, more closer,
03:18that the Kremlin might target NATO in some way, in some small way that may require an Article 5 response,
03:26because up until now it's been below Article 5.
03:30In that case, let's say a part of Estonia was targeted in a very specific way.
03:35Do you think NATO would be unified enough to respond directly?
03:40Would the United States be behind them?
03:42When you look at the discussions we've had with the United States over the last year,
03:49you can see that the U.S. is in NATO.
03:51We had a successful NATO summit, actually, this year.
03:54We see all the members of NATO increasing their defense spending,
03:58which I think is good for the alliance.
04:01It's also good to boast of the European pillar of NATO.
04:04This is something we support.
04:05If you want a more balanced, a more mature security relationship
04:09where Europeans can take ownership of their own security and defense.
04:12This is something that the U.S. presidents have been demanding.
04:15But the truth is, this is also something that we want.
04:17So we should read the writing on the wall, draw the conclusions from this,
04:22but at the same time continue to work with our American partners.
04:25Look at what we did this year, you know, the G7 where President Trump was invited,
04:29and then the dinner in Versailles.
04:31We've seen, I think, a good reconvergence, realignment on the question of Ukraine,
04:36announcements from the United States on the production of patriots on the license.
04:41But the problem is that was the big getaway from NATO summit, but it hasn't emerged.
04:46But let's be honest.
04:47We're in a different place than we were just a year ago, for example, when it comes to Ukraine.
04:51President Zelenskyy was in Washington recently for a visit that I think was successful.
04:54So, once again, I think the best thing you can do in life is focus on what you control.
05:01And this is why I'm talking about the efforts that Europeans are undertaking for their own security
05:05and their own defense, and then continue the work that we do with the United States.
05:09The Strait of Hormuz is obviously something that the Europeans were not involved in,
05:13in terms of the Israeli-US war in Iran.
05:15But can the Europeans do anything to intervene or to help this situation?
05:21Because it has such an impact globally, but also in particular in Europe,
05:24because we get so much gas and oil through that strait.
05:27We said very clearly that when it comes to the situation in Iran and the Strait of Hormuz,
05:31we were looking for a de-escalation of the conflict that can create the conditions after the war
05:36to have an international coalition where France will take its part to support the freedom of navigation in the Strait
05:45of Hormuz.
05:46And then what's really important afterwards, and this is what was agreed, by the way, at the time in Versailles,
05:53is to set the conditions for diplomacy to deal with the Iranian nuclear program,
06:00which is a security threat for the entire region.
06:03So there's no influence there for the actual de-escalation part?
06:06That just has to happen between the parties that are involved, really, though?
06:09Well, I mean, once again, you know, this is not a war that was started by Europeans.
06:13We will be ready to take our part, really, to lead to freedom of navigation and to diplomacy to handle
06:20this nuclear issue.
06:21So the frozen Russian assets, most of them are held, as we know, in EuroClear, in Belgium.
06:27France came to the position after a while that we should be using them to pay for Ukraine.
06:32It shouldn't be up to European taxpayers. Is that still your position?
06:35We asked the Commission to look, especially technically, on what we could do with them,
06:39because this is where, you know, both technically and legally, we could not find unanimity and consensus.
06:46And it is clear that these assets will remain where they are,
06:50as long as there's still the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine ongoing,
06:53and Russia refuses to pay reparations.
06:55So we're open to having, you know, the debate on what to do next with these assets.
07:00Ceuta is another issue, because migration, once again, being instrumentalized,
07:04is something that's been happening for the last few years, but again, has been escalating.
07:08Do you think that Spain was given the right amount of solidarity by the European Union,
07:12by the Commission, and by member states?
07:14Well, we have been in support of Spain.
07:15Yeah.
07:16And I think the Spanish authorities have clearly taken the measures to be able to respond to this situation,
07:24despite the emergency and the dramatic humanitarian nature of this crisis.
07:29Look, I'm absolutely convinced that the best way to deal with these extraordinary complex issues of immigration
07:36is to do it through European cooperation.
07:38But do you think, though, that Spain was given a hard time unnecessarily?
07:42Without, within moments of the whole thing happening, barely, you know,
07:46Italy had suspended unilaterally, you know, Spain from Schengen.
07:50As I said, this is not the approach that was taken by France.
07:53Yeah, indeed.
07:53Do you think it was a bit out of bounds?
07:56Well, what I can tell you is that France has shown solidarity with Spain,
07:59and that I think Spain has been effective in answering this crisis.
08:03You have a big election next year, and, you know,
08:07the past two or three election cycles we've been saying this,
08:09but this even is even more pivotal, let's say.
08:13First of all, are you concerned about interference in the election?
08:17You know, France has been a major target for foreign disinformation and interference.
08:22We've seen episodes, remember, when President Macron was attacked on a video
08:27when he was going on the train to Ukraine.
08:29The rule should be very clear.
08:30What's illegal in the real world should be illegal in the virtual world,
08:34and this is the criteria that presides in these instruments.
08:38Marine Le Pen goes from strength to strength, it appears,
08:42despite the fact that, you know, she has a conviction for misuse of funds,
08:46which something you would imagine voters would be something that would put them off.
08:50What have you guys done wrong?
08:53You know, I think you see the rise of the far-right and populist everywhere in Europe.
08:58And we should take this with a lot of humility.
09:00And our first responsibility, first, is to continue to deliver on results.
09:05All the issues that we're discussing here today, from migration and security,
09:09from competitiveness and prosperity,
09:11from defending the security of Europeans against foreign threats,
09:16we have a lot to continue to do and to continue to deliver and function.
09:20And then I will tell you something.
09:22You know, this will be, as every election, a tough election.
09:28It's still a long way to go, and I never trust the polls,
09:32because when I personally started supporting Emmanuel Macron in 2016,
09:37he was far, far behind in the polls.
09:39He was a newcomer then.
09:40Absolutely.
09:42But I know something for sure.
09:44The French are deeply pro-European.
09:46The French are proud of the role that their country is playing on the European stage.
09:51And Marine Le Pen, for a long time, has been the candidate of Brexit.
09:55She's been the candidate of leaving the Euro.
09:57It's still far.
09:59But I'm quite confident that the French, like they've done so many, many times,
10:05will refuse extremism.
10:07I am saying this with a lot of humility, because I think a campaign, you know,
10:11you need to campaign.
10:12You need to go meet the French.
10:14You need to listen to voters.
10:16You need to respond, propose a platform.
10:18We need to unify around a candidate, because right now we have a lot of talents in the center,
10:24but we have a fragmented political offer.
10:26So I think by the end of the year, we will have one candidate that can rally the center and
10:31the center-right.
10:31And then we will make a case.
10:33Once again, France has shown repeatedly, the French people have shown repeatedly,
10:37that they have said no to extremism, Euro-skepticism and populism.
10:41At the same time, they're getting stronger.
10:44And they did ever so well at the European Parliament elections.
10:46I think, you know, you have a broader sense of maybe loss of control in globalization.
10:53You have a world that's changing very rapidly, where a lot of the certainties that we had in the 90s
10:58and the 2000s are crumbling.
10:59You know, trade is being weaponized as a tool of pressure.
11:03You see the rise of China and the subsidized overcapacities that are coming to our markets,
11:11that are destabilizing our industries.
11:13You see our traditional alliances that are being questioned and a war of Russian aggression on our continent.
11:20And so when you have all this transformation, uncertainties, and a lot of the pillars on which we had built
11:27our systems,
11:28our European Union, our transatlantic alliance that are being questioned,
11:32yes, I think, you know, these periods of transition paved the way very often for radical answers.
11:38I don't think they're the right answer.
11:39I don't think that in a world where you have the pressure from China, from the US, the threat coming
11:44from Russia,
11:45we would be stronger going it alone.
11:47I don't think we'd be stronger looking inwards.
11:49Benjamin Haddad, EU Affairs Minister for France, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
