- 1 week ago
A panel discussion featuring former Lieutenant Governor Dr Kiran Bedi, former IPS officer Yashvardhan Azad, former Urban Development Secretary Dr Sudhir Krishna, and civic activist Gauri Sarin analyzes urban disasters, building collapses, and civic administrative lapses across Delhi and the National Capital Region. Prompted by a structural collapse in Satya Niketan, the debate addresses systemic corruption within the Municipal Corporation of Delhi, unauthorized constructions, and unregulated paying guest facilities in crowded student hubs. The panelists highlight a shortage of university hostel seats that leaves over seven lakh students relying on unsafe accommodations lacking fire safety NOCs and evacuation blueprints. Emphasizing institutional accountability, Dr Kiran Bedi calls for daily on-ground monitoring by civic officials, while Gauri Sarin urges the execution of proper paying guest policies across Tier 1 cities. The experts advocate for independent financial audits of municipal authorities, structural safety testing, developer licensing, and updated urban master plans to reform urban misgovernance.
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00:00The MCD once again caught napping viewers.
00:04The MCD is one department in the national capital
00:08where anyone who has dealt with this department
00:10knows that it's a department that thrives, survives on cuts,
00:15on looking the other way,
00:17just for the virtue of a little bit of money,
00:20where most call it the most corrupt department.
00:23The other question we ask,
00:24will anyone be held accountable
00:27or where mere suspensions that have taken place with the MCD be enough?
00:33And why are our cities turning into death traps?
00:36Who will break this corruption nexus?
00:40Does the MCD as a unit need to completely be dismantled
00:45because this clearly is not the first oversight?
00:48Joining me this evening, Dr. Kiran Bedi,
00:52former IPS officer and former lieutenant governor,
00:54governor, Deekshu Kukreja, architect, urban designer,
00:59environmentalist, managing principal at CP Kukreja Architects,
01:03Gauri Sarveen, founder, making model guru gram,
01:07living without medicine, Dr. Sudhir Krishna,
01:10former secretary, Ministry of Urban Development,
01:13Yashavardhan Azad, former IPS officer.
01:16I want to begin with Dr. Bedi first.
01:17Dr. Bedi, I just want to take you through over the last eight months
01:21the kind of tragedies and complete violation of norms
01:25that we have seen that have led to deadly disasters.
01:28We've had the Malwia Nagar fire.
01:30We've had the Sakit building collapse.
01:32We've had Mustafa building collapse,
01:34flooding at a coaching center in old Rajendra Nagar.
01:37Why is it that over and over again, month by month,
01:41there's one tragedy after the other,
01:42but Delhi refuses to learn its lessons?
01:46Because we don't attend to the root cause.
01:51What are the possible root causes?
01:53And who knows the root causes?
01:55Has anybody analyzed the root causes?
01:58Have we engaged a professional agency
02:01to understand why is NCD considered
02:05the most corrupt department?
02:07Why?
02:08What are its processes which cause these problems?
02:12And why is it still always a problem and never a solution?
02:17So exceptionally, it may be work in exception cases,
02:21but generally that's the public perception.
02:23Why is this perception prevailing?
02:26Why isn't it functional?
02:28Why is it not preventable?
02:31Why are we working in silos?
02:35Why?
02:36I think, has anybody understood?
02:38Why not engage a professional management agency
02:41to let us know within a week or 10 days
02:44what is basically wrong with this corporation,
02:47which is the key to urban development of the city?
02:51So I think we have not addressed the root causes.
02:54And you and I are only talking about corruption.
02:56What about other lack of processes?
02:59Are the officers of the MCTA being given tasks to do daily
03:08from senior to junior?
03:10Are they visible?
03:12Are they accessible?
03:14Are they trusted?
03:15Are they effective?
03:18I think that's a problem.
03:19We need to answer.
03:20The problem is we are not preventive.
03:24We are all reacting all the time.
03:27And that's why we crime.
03:28It's reaction after reaction after reaction
03:31and not prevention.
03:33Task the commissioners, MCD.
03:36Task the DCPs.
03:37Task the junior engineers to be out on the ground every day.
03:41Pick up your own areas.
03:42And number two, task the elected representatives.
03:46Task them also.
03:47The corporators, the MLAs, the MPs.
03:50Are they walking the streets?
03:52Why not?
03:52If you imagine, imagine if all of them are walking the streets on a daily basis for one
03:59hour together, inspecting things by surprise.
04:02Any area, your footpaths will be cleared.
04:06Your garbage will be cleared.
04:07And these buildings will now scamper to make it possible.
04:12One thing more before you move on to another panelist.
04:14You know, we are already creating problems.
04:20When you are asking for fourth floor and fourth floor allowed or fifth floor allowed, what's
04:25happening?
04:26The earlier buildings were built only for three floors.
04:28How are you building the fourth floor and fifth floor?
04:31Which foundation will take them?
04:32It's happening right under our eyes.
04:37Our buildings, when you are reconstructing or adding, our buildings, our buildings are getting
04:44the earthquake tremors.
04:45We have nowhere to go.
04:47So our buildings' lives are also being shortened.
04:50So when it collapses one day, faster, earlier than later, it will be the reason.
04:55We are allowing additional floors without...
05:00And how would you don't correct the foundations?
05:03So I would say these, before you go to the other panelists, I wanted to highlight these.
05:09A fair point, Ma'am.
05:10You know, I'm going to come right back to you as well.
05:12Let me just cut across to some of our other panelists.
05:14Because in all of this, viewers, I just want to, you know, digress.
05:18But it's a part of the same conversation.
05:21The development plan of Delhi was released just two weeks ago.
05:25Wixit Delhi development plan, which was going to be how Delhi will develop over the next
05:3020 years.
05:31And if you read the fine print in that, most colonies now have been given a sub-commercial
05:37set up.
05:38Now, what will that lead to?
05:39Something that we are witnessing, even at a larger scale.
05:42So that's just a point.
05:43Because you might have the authorities say what they do right now.
05:47But they really, on the other hand, passing rules, which will never be followed.
05:51And what will happen is abject exploitation.
05:54I want to bring in Mr. Razad into this conversation.
05:57And I want to go back, Mr. Razad, to May 30th, where six people were killed when an unauthorized
06:03building in South Delhi's Saib Dhu Lajab collapsed.
06:06A subsequent magisterial inquiry concluded that there were definite grave lapses by the
06:13MCD.
06:13There was corruption involved.
06:15Meaningful enforcement action did not follow.
06:18The question that I want to ask you, Mr. Razad, is because every time you will have one department
06:24pass the buck to the other that we did our job, but this department did not.
06:28Is it time that there be a legally defined chain of responsibility that no agency can
06:35simply say that enforcement was somebody else's job?
06:39Should we now have a legally defined chain of responsibility?
06:43You can certainly have that.
06:45And one should do it in a management style.
06:48But I don't think the problem will stop with that.
06:51You remember when we were discussing the basement tragedy with the coaching institute, where every
07:01kind of culpability was observed on the part of the MCD, on the part of the institute, on
07:07the part of the contractor and everyone.
07:09And there was a committee which was constituted and the CM only said that we will look into it.
07:14That was the time to look into all such places, whether they were the coaching institutes
07:19or whether they were the buildings of this kind.
07:22The Lucknow fire tragedy, which came and which again killed youngsters, there was again a
07:27kind of announcement that it will be across the board.
07:31And I thought Supreme Court should take it up that wherever students are there, whether
07:34in Kota, whether, you know, in Delhi, whether all over, they're living in hovels.
07:39They're living in absolute, you know, dire conditions which should be rectified.
07:45But given that, let me tell you, there are two things which are very, very clear.
07:49One is the misgovernance and the other is the lack of political will.
07:53Ultimately, you know, have you seen the councillors doing anything except jumping around on the
07:58tables of the MCD assembly?
08:01Have they done anything else of note?
08:04They know almost everything of the particular area.
08:07Have they ever come up with any kind of a solution or naming any kind of a building or
08:13suggesting any kind of revisions?
08:15No.
08:15There can't be an implementation.
08:17If you remember the fire tragedy in Malviya Nagar, even the Damkal, the fire Damkal could
08:22not enter that place.
08:24So everything is known, Priti.
08:28It's not that it's not known.
08:30Of course.
08:31Mr. Asad, either in MCD, everybody knows.
08:34I think who, you know, and you'd stand testimony to it.
08:37We all know, you go to the MCD, they either have a cut or you slip them some money under
08:42the table, they look the other way.
08:44Absolutely.
08:45And that's exactly what I say.
08:47It is the political will.
08:49It is the corruption which oils and lubricates the system.
08:53And unless somebody attacks it, nothing is going to happen.
08:57I am happy that these five people have been suspended.
08:59But I hope at least they are dismissed that the fear of God is instilled in these people.
09:05Because, you know, each and everything is known.
09:09If on the 55 square yard you make four floors and the basement is being, you know, rebuttressed
09:17and the load-bearing pillar is shifted, there is the culpable homicide charge which should
09:23be against the contractor because he knew exactly what was happening.
09:26And to the owner itself.
09:27You know, fair point, I'd like to bring in, I'd like to bring in Mr. Radha, Dr. Sudhir
09:32Krishna, he's the former Secretary, Ministry of Urban Development.
09:35And Mr. Krishna, the question is, where does the buck stop?
09:38Because I'll give you an example.
09:40It's not just the MCD.
09:42It's a whole system of malaise which completely refuses to address the situation.
09:49We have somebody on the same panel, Mr. Krishna, Ms. Gauri Sareen, who had written,
09:54you know, and submitted a policy paper on regulation of paying guests for consideration by Civic and
10:01Urban Development Authority, which clearly underlines the unregulated growth of PGs across
10:07Gurugram.
10:08Now, that was, I think she's documented Gurugram.
10:10But what did the urban development authorities do?
10:14Absolutely nothing, Mr. Krishna.
10:17Well, I think in Delhi, there is a proper policy.
10:22Earlier, there was an act also.
10:23There was a law which was enacted, I think, 20 years ago.
10:28But recently, last month, they have repealed that law.
10:30I do not know the good reason for that.
10:32But anyhow, there is a policy for the bed and breakfast, you know, scheme.
10:38And that has got some good features.
10:40I cannot say it is ideal, but good features.
10:42So, I don't think that rules are missing.
10:46And even the building structural safety, the MCD Act provides enough provisions are there.
10:52Empowering the commissioner to get the buildings, unsafe buildings inspected and give direction
10:58to the owner to rectify the weakness, otherwise, in a given time, failing which corporation
11:04shall do it and recover the cost.
11:06But, sir, I don't think that the question is about the absence of rules.
11:09The absence of rules are there.
11:11You said there was a law which has been taken off, but the rules are there.
11:14It's not about the absence of rules.
11:15It's actually more about the absence of sustained coordinated action, which never follows.
11:21It is not followed in many places, but, you know, Delhi has a unique position.
11:26The problems are there in almost every city, almost every state.
11:30But Delhi has got a unique position in the whole country as far as the city of Delhi or
11:34the NCT.
11:35NCT and city both are the same here.
11:37So, it is because there are too many vertical, high-powered structures that are having a power
11:43of managing the affairs of Delhi.
11:45Whether it is the Home Ministry or Ministry of Housing and Urban Affairs, they have created
11:50a new full-fledged department of NCR Affairs.
11:52And then there is a lieutenant governor, there is a DDA, and there is a Delhi government,
11:56the government of NCT of Delhi, the Municipal Corporation of Delhi.
12:00And then, you see, they all are parallel.
12:02There is nobody responsible to other and so on.
12:05So, it is a complicated situation for Delhi.
12:08So, everyone basically passes the buck to the other department.
12:11But, Dr. Krishna, I want to ask you another question.
12:13Because we might be sitting here and debating the current context.
12:17While we are already looking to pass Master Plan Delhi for Vixit Master Plan Delhi 2046,
12:23where you speak about the height of structures, where there is a provision in the new master
12:28plan that if your building is next to or over a 9-meter road, 12-meter road, you can actually
12:33build five floors.
12:34And you've also included the fact in the master plan that is coming up, which goes on to suggest
12:40that there could be mixed commercial usage in residential areas.
12:45What are we really looking at?
12:46Because then, what you're doing is you're hunting with the hare and running with the hounds.
12:51Because at the same time, you're giving a free pass for everyone to exactly go down this path
12:57and then coming on camera, not you, sir, but the likes of, you know, the Delhi chief minister
13:03and other authorities come on camera and say what's happened is terrible.
13:07But then, you're amplifying it.
13:09You're engaging in it.
13:11Well, I'm not trying to escape.
13:13I was part of the government and I continue to believe in some way I feel responsible.
13:17But having said that, I think the officers have got a great role to play.
13:22Unfortunately, I do not know what is happening.
13:24The officers are now going behind the curtain and we all the time see the political leaders
13:29here.
13:29Everybody has a role to play.
13:31But in municipal corporation affairs, the Delhi Corporation Act, if you read, and every municipal
13:37corporation in the country, right or wrong, it is a municipal commissioner who is the
13:41director of the show.
13:43And so that is how it is in our country, not other countries.
13:45Elsewhere, you see mayor is boss.
13:47If you go to New York, if you go to Russia, Moscow or Shanghai, it is mayor is the real
13:52boss.
13:53But here it is not so.
13:54In reality, the commissioner, so I fail to understand what is making the commissioners,
13:59you know, resile, resile from exercising their power.
14:02You mentioned certain challenges in the Delhi master plan.
14:05You see, if we read carefully, the plan would have made provisions to do things right way.
14:09But you have to do something, you know.
14:11So I appeal through this channel.
14:13I appeal to the officers, municipal commissioner and his team, the development authority,
14:18the vice chairman and his team to, you know, rise to the occasion.
14:21They have got N of power.
14:22You see, Bombay Commissioner, that lady is doing wonderful work in a short few months'
14:26time.
14:26She has her name.
14:27Everybody is reciting her name, right.
14:30People want to follow good law.
14:31So they want to respect law.
14:32But, you know, somebody has to take the lead.
14:34No, you know, everyone wants to respect law, Dr. Krishna.
14:37And I'm sorry, because I know you've served in the ministry and you've become pretty much
14:40the punching bag on this show.
14:42But nobody really does it.
14:43And that's the sad part.
14:44But if the Delhi government today, if the DDA today really wants to be serious about
14:49walking their talk, then tear up the Delhi master plan and draw up a completely new one
14:54and make fresh rules, sir.
14:56And I think let's just begin with that.
14:58Gauri Sareen, you want to come in?
14:59Go ahead, ma'am.
15:00You had written to the development authorities in Gurgaon on the unregulated PGs in Gurugram.
15:07Make your point.
15:07Yes, so this is in the context of what has been happening in Gurugram and which is really
15:13relevant in all tier one cities where there's migrant population, there's a huge student
15:17population, and there is also huge working professionals population.
15:22And all these three sets of people are living in human settlements, sometimes unauthorized
15:27colonies, sometimes licensed colonies with absolutely unauthorized structures, which is
15:33really causing the problem.
15:34Now, Gurgaon was given the mandate, and I'm giving an example of Gurgaon because the PGs
15:39issue happens here right now, is rife right now.
15:43Just about a month ago, there was a complete crackdown on PGs, which were illegal, unauthorized,
15:50and there was a huge backlash on that.
15:55Now, when the backlash actually happened, people said that, hey, where will the students go?
16:02I was sitting with a town and country planning head who was doing this under high court orders,
16:08and he showed me some pictures which told the entire story.
16:12He says, tomorrow, if anything happens in any of these PGs, and mind you, I'm just sharing
16:18this very, very consciously, the students or the people staying here will not be able
16:23to evacuate.
16:24There is no evacuation plan.
16:27There is no fire NOC.
16:30These people will never be able to get out.
16:33And I wanted to really emphasize on the evacuation piece here, which somehow has been missing in
16:39the entire discussion.
16:40I've been following it through the day, Preeti.
16:42And I noticed that people are talking about response of teams and agencies and structural
16:47audits.
16:48But nobody is talking about the fact that the building may be unsafe in itself because
16:53it is not built the right way.
16:55But where is the evacuation policy?
16:56How is a building allowed to keep students or anyone for that matter without a proper evacuation
17:03plan?
17:04That's A.
17:05Second is that the ministry, the Mahua ministry has been talking about low cost housing.
17:11It's been talking about all kinds of things.
17:12It's time that all tier one cities, not just Delhi, not just Gurgaon, but all tier one
17:17cities has a proper PG plan policy in place, which is executed properly.
17:23It has a working population as a rental policy.
17:26I've been talking to builders and they said the government has been talking about it, but
17:30nothing comes on the ground.
17:31It's time we have a reasonably set out policy, which can be executed by builders so that norms
17:40are followed.
17:41I think this is really need of the hour right now.
17:44Thirdly, as I think sir was mentioning, you know, we are building, when builders build one
17:50floor after another floor on an original building, which may be meant only for three months, three
17:56floors, we are actually creating a huge death trap, which is really what has happened in this
18:02particular case.
18:03Last but not the least, I think that, you know, the time has really come for us to think
18:10very seriously about urban misgovernance.
18:12I think we all started at where is the problem?
18:14Is it corruption?
18:15But if you're going to point fingers on the agency, remember, all these agencies are driven
18:20by political interests.
18:22And until we are able to question the politicians out there behind it, who are running, many
18:26of them are running these shows, actually.
18:28You go to the villages, there are about 900 rooms which have been sealed.
18:34And I was asking the town and country planning head, I said, how many more are there?
18:37He says, there's so many, not just in licensed and unlicensed colonies, but they are all over
18:43the villages, which are in the middle of the city.
18:46And MCG is responsible for that.
18:48And there's the same story everywhere.
18:50So how are we going to really take care without a proper policy?
18:56I don't agree that the MCG should be responsible.
18:59I believe there should be another agency which is responsible for the uptake of the buildings
19:04who need to ensure there's regulation on these buildings when they're made.
19:08They are not, these buildings don't have OCs.
19:11They don't have, they're not following FAR rules.
19:13They're not having approvals.
19:15It is a very, very serious issue.
19:17And also, you know, have a legally defined chain of command that one department doesn't
19:23pass the buck to the other and say that it's not my job.
19:26It was his job.
19:27We did ours.
19:28Dikshu Kukreja, with the visuals that you have seen and what Satya Niketan really is,
19:32it's, you know, this is not just one building.
19:35The entire area is this building there, waiting to collapse.
19:40Low-hanging wires, buildings that are not built on girdles.
19:43There is no safety evacuation, no fire exit, absolutely nothing.
19:48We've been talking to students, Mr. Kukreja, 10 by 10 feet, two kids crammed in matchbox rooms.
20:02Sure.
20:03So, finally, the planner gets to speak something.
20:06I have very carefully heard the other panelists.
20:11And rather than going and repeating myself on all the different perspectives that have
20:15come here, whether it has to do with MCD, whether it has to do with the master plan of
20:19Delhi, or the other aspects that have been spoken about, let me then touch upon something
20:24different, which has not yet been discussed.
20:26And I'm going to say here that it's about community awareness.
20:30It's about citizen participation.
20:32Of course, we know what MCD is all about.
20:35Of course, we know that there's complete civic apathy.
20:38Of course, we know that not even 5% of the 7.5 million households built environment that
20:46is sitting in Delhi is actually having occupancy certificates.
20:49Those are the kind of horrifying statistics.
20:52And this is Delhi we are talking about, a city which a lot of other Indian cities try
20:57to emulate.
20:58So, if this is the situation here, you know, you can only shut it and think what's happening
21:02in the rest of the country.
21:03But what I'm going to say here is that it's important that each one of us decides that,
21:09you know, we need to fix certain things ourselves as well.
21:11And by that, I mean that when we see illegal stuff happening in our neighborhood, when we
21:17see that there are dangerous buildings coming up, yes, we can go and report to the authority.
21:22But just the way I saw crowds converging at this tragic site in Satya Niketan, the same
21:29way we can come together and make sure that these kind of illegal activities do not happen.
21:34Because they are not only a danger to the greedy private owners who are doing that.
21:40But you know, Mr. Kukreja, the fact is today, I think the citizens have gotten sick of the
21:46owners being passed on to them for everything.
21:48It's not their job.
21:50There should be active, you know, active citizenry.
21:53Everyone should be responsible.
21:54But it is really not their job.
21:57And the people who are supposed to do their job are not doing it.
22:00We are paying them taxes to do that.
22:02I completely agree with you.
22:04They are not doing their job.
22:06But are we going to sit and only discuss and, you know, worry about that?
22:10We've worried enough.
22:11We've lost enough lives.
22:13The opening report of your bureau, which was there, was really so tragic about how those
22:20young kids with dreams that their parents have sent them to Delhi to study, how they've
22:25got through Delhi University in that competitive environment, which is another story that we
22:29keep discussing.
22:30And here we are paying out of the, you know, I mean, paying out of their pocket.
22:3415,000 rupees, because most parents, you know, that's the fact, because we've been talking
22:39to a lot of kids through the day.
22:41Getting a flat with four kids is cheaper, viewers, much cheaper than what they really
22:46are paying.
22:46But if you're a parent of a 17, 18, 19-year-old, you wouldn't want your child and your kid
22:51to stay in a flat, unregulated.
22:54So you put them in a PG.
22:55You put them in a PG where they're paying 15,000 for a 10 by 10 feet room who they
23:01share
23:01with another kid.
23:03So you're hoping he'll be safe there.
23:05And this is what really happens.
23:07And the figures that we're looking at are astounding.
23:09Seven lakh students study in Delhi University that come in from across the country.
23:14How many hostel spots are there?
23:167,000.
23:18Do the math.
23:19Over 100 kids from across the country.
23:21Why for one spot of a hostel seat?
23:24And some of them can't even afford that if you do the math.
23:27I want to give all of you just about 20, 30 seconds to wrap up your submissions.
23:31And we'll need to move on.
23:33But Dr. Bedi, if you need to find tangible solutions, if you're not, again, going to get
23:38into rhetorical questions of how terrible our city is and we are a death trap, who's responsible?
23:43If there are tangible solutions, what are we really looking at?
23:45Because if I can actually see, in my eyes, Delhi, DDA, and the government needs to tear
23:52up the master plan.
23:53You want to work towards it, show that you have the stomach to do it.
23:57One, two things without any repetition.
24:01One is contractors should be licensed.
24:04Are they ever oriented towards safety regulations?
24:08They only bring migrant laborers to work on this who have no idea of safety.
24:14They only carry out the orders of the contractors and the subcontractors.
24:19Can there be a policy for how do you license these contractors?
24:24Number one.
24:25Number two, what about the university?
24:27University should know, university should ask for PG ships.
24:33People should apply.
24:35And then the university should register them, put the conditions on them, and have them as
24:41authorized PGs.
24:44And students then could be sent to the following PGs, which are now cleared by the university.
24:49And also the university should know where are the students staying for safety sake.
24:55These are my few points.
24:57Mr. Razad, you know, would you want to come in on that?
24:59Because now, you know, there is a law that you can't build a floor if you can't prove parking.
25:03Should these colleges keep coming up, mushrooming across the capital, and not have the prerequisite
25:10hostel facilities, which they really should?
25:13Should that be now legalized?
25:15So that's exactly the point.
25:17You know, there is no point talking about rules and provisions.
25:21I'll give you a very simple example.
25:23What was the kind of a master plan which was made on Press Enclave Road, which is fully encroached
25:28on one side, and on the other side, there are five hospitals, there are four malls, and
25:33there are the district courts.
25:35So the entire area of Saket is completely blocked off, and I had to literally run away from that
25:40place and find another accommodation.
25:43So my point, again and again, is the same thing.
25:46It's rank corruption, number one, lack of political will, and third-rate political leadership
25:52backed by a spineless bureaucratic network and leaders who just do not do their job.
26:00So unless you do something about it, what can we do?
26:04The people should raise these things on the platforms in a vociferous manner, and that's
26:10why what CJP is doing, I totally support them.
26:14They have done something about the schools.
26:16Nothing will happen here because the implementation...
26:18Mr. Kukreja is suggesting the same, Mr. Kukreja is suggesting the same, that you need to
26:23come out and start protesting.
26:25But the fact is how much...
26:26We are just tired now.
26:2830% of our money is going into taxes.
26:30If these guys are not pulling their weight and doing their job, how much can you keep
26:34protesting as well, Mr. Razad?
26:36They did something in Rajasthan, and the Rajasthan government had to allocate a budget of 1,000
26:40crore to change the schools.
26:42Do you know in 2022, the same thing happened in Satyini Ketan.
26:47There was no implementation.
26:49So if you have a structural audit, it should be with a timeline that who are the people
26:53rightly involved.
26:55True.
26:56Yeah, you're right.
26:57Dr. Krishna, final comment, sir.
26:59Politics.
27:00I think I would suggest a little different thing of solving the problem, which we require
27:05a visionary leadership in the bureaucracy primarily because the schemes are there.
27:09There is a wonderful scheme called Accelerated Rental Housing Scheme under the Pradhan Mantri
27:15Avas Yojana for Urban Areas.
27:17And under that scheme, rental housing can be developed in PPP mode by private developers.
27:24For whom?
27:25For students, for migrant workers, and people who visit the city for a few weeks or a few
27:31months' time, like pilgrims or for medical treatment purposes and so on.
27:36It's a wonderful scheme and private entrepreneurs will get opportunity, you know, to do good
27:41business.
27:42Who is going to regulate it, Dr. Krishna?
27:44Who is going to regulate this scheme?
27:46We'll be sitting here in two years and talking about a building collapse under the same scheme.
27:50Yeah, let me...
27:51So, in that scheme, the provision is that government and the developer, government will approve the
27:59structure and the arrangements and also the rent, rent amount also.
28:04And it will be a proper project.
28:05But, Dr. Krishna, the government is supposed to regulate what we've seen collapse here as
28:10well.
28:10It's the same thing.
28:11It's the government's job.
28:12Different departments of the government, I understand.
28:14And I understand it's a bureaucratic reply or a bureaucratic solution to what we're really
28:20debating.
28:20But what we really need is something radical, sir.
28:23Radical means then either, as was said about, you take to a street.
28:27That is one radical approach.
28:29But what I'm saying is a way where society can remain stable.
28:32We have got resources.
28:33We have got manpower.
28:35What we are missing is the willpower.
28:37Manpower is there.
28:38Willpower is not there.
28:39Officers, I appeal to all the officers who are watching your channel, senior officers particularly,
28:44there is no point in troubling or suspending junior engineers and so on.
28:48Sir, manpower is there.
28:48Integrity is not there.
28:50Other than just willpower.
28:51Gauri Sareen, make your point.
28:53Yeah.
28:54So, I just want to summarize three or four aspects.
28:57And I want to bring in the education ministry here.
28:59I think somebody has already talked about it.
29:02I think it's time that the education ministry gets very serious about students.
29:06We already saw that there was an attack on them against CJP, on suicides and the paper
29:12leakage.
29:12It's time they get very, very serious about the safety, hygiene and the living standards
29:17of students that they're attracting in thousands and thousands in any city of India with Delhi
29:23being the focus right now.
29:25So, I think education ministry has to play a very important role.
29:28It's not just about MCD.
29:29It's not about just, you know, a master plan.
29:31Second, again, I'm repeating that there needs to be a government policy on PG zones, on PG
29:39regulation, on rental accommodation.
29:42I'm adding to the point which Sir has already made.
29:45I think it is really time.
29:47They do it.
29:47Builders are really waiting for a PPP model.
29:50They want something like this to come up.
29:53And in all tier one cities, this is a dire need.
29:55Otherwise, we are going to, we are all living in seismic zones.
29:59This entire NCR area is in a seismic sensitive zone.
30:03Tomorrow, if there's an earthquake which hits us, all these will collapse like cards.
30:08Let's be very sensitive to what might happen in the future.
30:12What has happened is a great warning for us and let's work towards it.
30:16Third is that disaster preparedness has to be a lot better.
30:19There are enough people saying that the response times are very low.
30:22Evacuation systems are not right.
30:24We really need to get that on the ground.
30:27And fourth is wherever these PG's or any of these buildings have been made,
30:31infrastructure has to be in place.
30:33It's the need of the hour.
30:34However, if it is not MCD which can deliver or a municipal corporation,
30:38we need to have another body for it if required.
30:41You're right.
30:42You know, it's said history often offers a warning and history has often warned us enough.
30:48There have been six building collapses in the last one year in Delhi viewers.
30:52So we've been warned us once again.
30:54Yeah, Dr. Bedi, yes, make your point.
30:55And then I'll go to Mr. Kukreja.
30:57One last point is MCD should be put under a third party audit, financial audit.
31:04It cannot be just CAG.
31:06MCD's finances should be independently audited.
31:11Once you start doing that, three-fourths of the money will go back to the people.
31:16So let's go in not Sarkari audit, CAG audit, but an independent audit of all MCD projects.
31:26Ma'am, that's a fabulous point.
31:28Mr. Kukreja is already advocating independent audit, a third party.
31:30No, that is a great point because I think anyone in the national capital who's dealt with the MCD has
31:35needed the MCD.
31:36The MCD has extracted some amount of money from them.
31:39So it's a great, great idea.
31:42Mr. Kukreja, final comment, sir.
31:44Priti, since you asked for some radical suggestions, I'm going to say that, you know, rather than small measures of
31:50injecting and improving the built environment, we need to actually now do testing of whatever buildings are unsafe.
31:58I completely agree with Gauri, we need to create not just quantity, we need to create qualitative, safe built environments.
32:05So we need to look at even redevelopment and reconstruction wherever Delhi needs to do that.
32:11Because the kind of unauthorized colonies, the kind of these narrow lanes, encroachments, unsafe buildings, unsafe additions that have taken
32:20place, there's no easy solution to fix them.
32:22So we will have to really take up our act together now and we have to look at redeveloping these
32:29areas with good quality public spaces as well.
32:32It should not be this greed of just building more and more.
32:36We need to understand that the quality is going to shape the people of tomorrow and therefore we need to
32:41give a better quality of built environment.
32:44I thank you all.
32:45Thanks all of our guests for joining us this evening.
32:47It is a tragedy that we speak at the back of and like we said, history often offers a warning.
32:53This is a warning and sadly, five, seven lives have been lost, five young students.
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