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01:00What do you reckon?
01:01You're not too old.
01:02I saw on the news recently a 95-year-old man running the 200 metres in less than a minute.
01:08And he only took up running, I think, in his 80s and bodybuilding.
01:12And also, you can't give me any of that.
01:14You're only 71.
01:15That's amazing.
01:16You've got 10 years before you can start bodybuilding and you still have beaten him in times of time.
01:20I can't, I can't even run for a bus anymore, it's terrible.
01:24And I spoke to a friend of mine, I said, how's your lung capacity?
01:28He's my sort of age.
01:29He said, great.
01:30He said, you've got to build it up.
01:31And this guy cycles.
01:33Yeah.
01:33He may be in this race, actually, in Yorkshire.
01:36He cycles 60 miles without even thinking about it.
01:39Is this Sir Alan?
01:40Yeah, amazing.
01:42He's a big cyclist, isn't he?
01:44He's a man all the lycra.
01:46He does a bit of lycra.
01:47But don't let's go there.
01:49Don't let's go there.
01:50Who have we got?
01:51I'll tell you who we've got, Rachel.
01:52We've got somebody who could be formidable, a young mathematician called Liam Thorne,
01:57who stormed in yesterday with a score, the rate of 106.
02:01Welcome back.
02:02Great, great win.
02:03You're joined today by Robert Baxter, sales assistant in an off-license.
02:07Is that right?
02:08That's right, yeah.
02:08That's a nice place to be.
02:10You can have a wander around the wine shelves.
02:11Yeah, it is, yeah.
02:12Yeah.
02:13Very interesting.
02:14In West Yorkshire.
02:15So, by all rights, you should be back in the saddle there.
02:17Big music fan, big eclectic taste, I think.
02:20What do you listen to mainly, Robert?
02:22Jazz.
02:22A lot of jazz.
02:23Oh, all right.
02:23Middle Eastern stuff as well.
02:25Really?
02:26Yeah.
02:26Middle Eastern, that's unusual.
02:28Yeah.
02:28What introduced you to that?
02:30I just came across it.
02:32Okay.
02:32Came across it from some friends of mine and, yeah, I've liked it ever since.
02:35Excellent.
02:36But massively eclectic taste from anything.
02:38Very good.
02:39Well, good luck today.
02:40Good luck to you both, in fact.
02:41Let's have a big round of applause for Liam and Robert Baxter.
02:49And over in the corner, Susie, joined once again by Chris Hollins, journalist, presenter
02:55and sportsman.
02:56Oh.
02:56You still play a bit?
02:57I still play a bit if anyone picks me.
02:59Yeah, I'll play a bit of cricket.
03:00I'll play a bit of football.
03:01Golf is my new passion.
03:03And what sort of handicap are you playing off yet?
03:05Six.
03:06That's not bad.
03:06You've just taken it up.
03:08Well, it may look like it, but no, I've been playing for quite some time.
03:11Golf, it's always, you know, trying to handle...
03:14How do you handle the nightmare situation of topping it, knocking it into the water and
03:19moving on to the next...
03:19I don't handle that very well.
03:21I'm very fragile.
03:22All right.
03:23Let's see how fragile our contestants are today.
03:26Let's see how fragile Liam is now as we go into a letters game.
03:30Hi again, Rachel.
03:31Hi, Liam.
03:31Can I have a consonant, please?
03:33Start with K.
03:35And another.
03:37D.
03:38And a third.
03:40L.
03:41And a vowel.
03:43B.
03:44And another.
03:46I.
03:47And another.
03:49O.
03:50And a consonant.
03:53D.
03:54And another.
03:56T.
03:57And a final vowel, please.
04:00And a final I.
04:02And here comes the countdown clock.
04:35Liam.
04:36Six.
04:37A six.
04:38How about Robert?
04:39I'm looking for a seven.
04:41Yes, Liam.
04:41A toddle.
04:43Now then, Robert.
04:44Deltoid.
04:46Good man.
04:47Absolutely brilliant.
04:48It means triangular, but the deltoid muscle is a thick and triangular muscle.
04:53It's covering the shoulder joint.
04:54Use it when you lift your arm up, basically.
04:56Very good.
04:57Very, very good.
04:57Very good.
04:58And Robert's nodding there.
05:00Now, what have we got there?
05:02Chris.
05:02I don't know.
05:03This is rather ominous, but I'm on the door.
05:04Dole.
05:05That's all I could get.
05:06Susie?
05:07A kiddie for another six, but deltoid's brilliant.
05:10Excellent stuff.
05:11All right.
05:12So, seven points to Robert, and we're with you now, Robert.
05:15Good start.
05:16Letters time.
05:17Hi, Rachel.
05:18Hi, Robert.
05:18Can I get a consonant to start with, please?
05:21Start with Z.
05:22And another one.
05:25L.
05:26And another one.
05:28D.
05:29And another one, please.
05:30S.
05:32And a vowel.
05:33E.
05:34And another vowel.
05:36I.
05:37And another vowel.
05:38O.
05:40And a consonant.
05:42R.
05:44And I'll finish with a vowel, please.
05:48And finish with I.
05:50Stand by.
05:51I don't know.
05:53I don't know.
06:22Robert. Just six. A six and? Seven. Yes, Robert. Closed. Closed and? Soldier. Yep. And soldier. Excellent. Good seven. Not
06:33bad. Any more sevens there? Chris, Susie?
06:35There is an eight there. A scleroid. S-C-L-E-R-O-I-D. In botany and zoology, it
06:44means having a hard or hardened texture. Scleroid. Thank you. Yeah, that's quite special, isn't it? Now, seven apiece and
06:58it's numbers time. Liam. I'll have one large and five smaller again, please.
07:03Thank you, Liam. One large one, five little ones coming up. And for the first time today, the numbers are
07:08ten, four, five, two, six and the big one, twenty-five. And the target, two hundred and sixty-four. Two,
07:18six, four.
07:51Liam. Two, six, four. And Robert. Two, six, five. Two, six, five. So, Liam.
07:56Twenty-five multiplied by ten. Two hundred and fifty. Two times the five is ten. Another ten, yep. And add
08:03the four.
08:04Fourteen. Two, six, four. Lovely. Mm-hmm. Very good.
08:11So, Liam on 17, Robert on seven. But now it's time for a Tea Time teaser, which is Google My.
08:17And the clue, I didn't use Google to find out about my jewellery. I studied.
08:23I didn't use Google to find out about my jewellery. I studied.
08:44Welcome back. I left you with a clue. I didn't use Google to find out about my jewellery. I studied.
08:50And the answer is, I studied gemology. I guess a study of precious stones, Susie.
08:57It is. Any more complicated than that?
08:58Nothing. No, not more complicated still.
09:00All right. 17 plays. Robert's seven. And Robert, it's your letters game now.
09:04Thank you. I'll start with a vowel, please.
09:07Thank you, Robert. E.
09:08And another one.
09:10A.
09:11And another one.
09:12O.
09:13And a consonant.
09:15Oh, that's two.
09:16P.
09:18And another one.
09:20V.
09:20And another one.
09:23M.
09:24And another one.
09:27Y.
09:28And a vowel.
09:31A.
09:33And finish with a consonant, please.
09:35And finish with G.
09:37Stand by.
09:54Bye.
09:55Bye-bye.
09:55Bye-bye.
09:56Bye-bye.
10:04Bye.
10:07Bye-bye.
10:07Bye-bye.
10:09Robert a dodgy five a five limb I think I've got a fix Robert gamey gamey and voyage voyage
10:19well done that is excellent gamey you can't spell it with the e yes but voyage we hadn't seen that's
10:29really really good what had we seen in the corner not a lot that was quite tough that one it
10:35was
10:35anything there Susie a couple of fives and Omega Omega and vampy okay 23 plays seven and it's Liam's
10:45letters game kind of a consonant please Rachel thank you Liam L and a valve oh and another e and
10:57a
10:57consonant G and another s and another V and a vowel oh and a consonant ah and a final vowel
11:16and a final e
11:18time time
11:20so
11:50Transcription by CastingWords
11:52Liam? Seven. A seven, Robert? Yeah, seven. Liam? Resolve. And Robert? Grovels. Grovels. Nice. Good word, eh? Yes, very good
12:03word. But in the corner, any advances on grovels? We had grooves as well. Grooves? Yes. Grooving. Oh, indeed groovy.
12:1330 plays 14. What should we do? Let's have a numbers game with Robert. One large, five small, please, Rachel.
12:20Thank you, Robert. One from the top row. And five little ones coming up. And for the second time today,
12:25the numbers are seven, two, nine, four, four. And the big one, 100.
12:32And the target? Five hundred and seventy. Five, seven, zero.
12:37One, two, three.
12:38One, two, three.
12:40One, two, three.
12:52One, two, three.
12:57One, two, three.
12:57One, two, three.
12:57One, two, three.
12:58One, two, three.
13:08Yes, Robert.
13:10572.
13:11572.
13:12Liam?
13:13571.
13:14571.
13:15Come on, then.
13:164 plus 2 is 6.
13:18Yep.
13:19Multiply by the 100.
13:21600.
13:229 times 4 is 36.
13:24Times the other 4, yes.
13:25Minus the 7.
13:26Minus the 7 for 29.
13:29And then take it away from the 600.
13:30Well done.
13:32571, one away.
13:33One away.
13:34How tricky is 570, Rachel?
13:36If you say 2 times 7 is 14, add to 100 for 114.
13:43And then 9 minus 1 of the 4s is 5 and times them together for 570.
13:48Very good.
13:48Well done.
13:49Thank you, Rachel.
13:51That's wonderful.
13:54Now we turn to the score standing at 37 to 14.
13:57We turn to Chris.
13:59And, Chris, yesterday you talked about bloopers when reporting on BBC Breakfast.
14:03But often it's the viewing public that say the oddest things, I'm told.
14:08Yes.
14:08And then we talked about emails as well.
14:11And I was just thinking about it, that sometimes it saves my job, where they say, oh, you know, let
14:17him off, he's not that bad.
14:18But also, I don't think anybody at home really believes that when we say, please email in, please send us
14:23your thoughts, we actually are sitting, presenting live on television and getting your emails at the same time.
14:28And I remember one Christmas day, I was presenting the programme.
14:32No one else wanted to do it.
14:33They wanted the day off.
14:34So I'd got in at 3 o'clock in the morning on Christmas day.
14:37You know, as you can imagine, the atmosphere in the office was fantastic.
14:41And we said, you know, 6 o'clock, good morning, everyone, Merry Christmas, welcome to BBC Breakfast.
14:46This is what's coming up on the programme.
14:48It was a quiet morning, as you can imagine.
14:50And about 6.03, we were meant to go to Afghanistan for a bit of a catch up with the
14:54military, what they were doing on a Christmas day.
14:58Unfortunately, it went down.
14:59The contact went down.
15:00And they said, Chris, can you feel, can you feel in your earpiece?
15:03So I said, yes, yes.
15:04So I just thought, OK, well, everybody at home, I've been up since 3 o'clock in the morning.
15:07I mean, what have you been doing?
15:09Email us in, tell us what you've been up to.
15:11And all of a sudden it went, ping, email.
15:13And it said, I opened it up, and I thought, here's an email in straight away.
15:17And all it said was, Chris Hollins, you're an idiot.
15:20And I thought, someone on Christmas day at 6 o'clock in the morning has got up in their pyjamas,
15:25got on their computer, logged on and sent me that message.
15:27And I thought, that's charming.
15:29But what I really like is sort of the contact you get with some of the people out on the
15:33streets.
15:34And I remember one Champions League final, it was Manchester United against Barcelona in 2009, and we were in Rome.
15:40And we were standing outside the Coliseum, all sort of doing the live hits for the studio.
15:45All loads of us and loads of us telling everybody about the atmosphere, what's going on.
15:49And this Australian couple, who obviously on holiday, came up and said, oh, hello, could you tell me what's going
15:54on?
15:55What's so interesting?
15:56And I said, well, it's a big European Cup final, all the best teams in Europe have been playing, and
16:01it's Manchester United against Barcelona for the glory of being the European champions.
16:06And they said, oh, fantastic, sounds great.
16:08And they're playing in the Coliseum?
16:12And I thought, do I actually bother telling them no?
16:15And I said, yes, that's right, 8 o'clock tonight.
16:17Brilliant.
16:18Extraordinary stuff.
16:19Thank you very much indeed, Chris.
16:20Now then, where are we?
16:22Liam, 37, Robert on 14.
16:24And now we're back with you, Liam.
16:26Letters game.
16:27Can I have a consonant, please, Rachel?
16:28Thank you, Liam.
16:30T.
16:30And another.
16:33S.
16:34And a third.
16:36T.
16:37And a vowel.
16:39I.
16:40And another.
16:42E.
16:43And a consonant.
16:46S.
16:47And a vowel.
16:49U.
16:50A consonant.
16:53L.
16:54And a final vowel, please.
16:57And a final A.
17:00And it's...
17:02Cunt Town.
17:02E.
17:04And a consonant.
17:33Liam 7 Robert 8 so Liam tassels yes Robert saltiest saltiest and I need to
17:44ask Liam there how he's spelling tassels t-a-double-s-e-l-s if you need three s's
17:50you've only got two unfortunately but salt is it is excellent 8 very good but
17:56in the corner any advances on saltiest well I've written down and I'm not quite
18:01sure this is okay there's a lustiest yes it's in the dictionary and Susie we had
18:09saltiest but you can also have salties for seven s-a-l-t-i-e-s which in
18:15Australia it's a slang term for the saltwater crocodile don't want to meet
18:18one of those no no no not easily 37 days 22 Robert's clambered up there and it's
18:26Robert's letters game now start with the consonant please thank you Robert n and
18:31another one oh
18:34another one please D and another one D and a vowel E another vowel U another vowel I and a
18:52consonant M
18:57and another consonant please and finally D stand by
19:02D and a vowel E another E another E a intensely
19:33Yes, Robert?
19:34Seven.
19:35Seven, Liam?
19:36Seven.
19:37Robert?
19:38Muddy.
19:39And?
19:40Yeah, I've got muddy here as well.
19:41All right.
19:43Anything else there?
19:45Chris?
19:45Well, I must admit, I'm struggling at the moment,
19:48but I'm being helped out and made look very intelligent with Untried.
19:52Yes.
19:52What else do we have?
19:53A surface seven.
19:54A couple of eights intruded.
19:56Yes.
19:56And rudiment.
19:58The sort of foundation or first principles of something are the rudiments.
20:01Yep, or the rudiments, if there's more than one, I suppose.
20:0544 plays 29, and it's numbers time for Liam.
20:10We'll go with one large and five small.
20:12Same again.
20:13Thank you, Liam.
20:13One from the top row and five little ones.
20:16And for this round, the little ones are three, five, eight, ten, and four.
20:23And the big one, 75.
20:25And the target, 698.
20:29698.
20:32698.
20:33How are you?
21:01MUSIC CONTINUES
21:03And Robert?
21:03Yeah, 6, 9, 8.
21:04So, Liam?
21:0675 minus 5.
21:07Is 70.
21:08Multiplied by 10.
21:10Or 700.
21:118 over the 4 is a 2.
21:12Yep.
21:12Then take it away.
21:13Well done.
21:146, 9, 8.
21:15And Robert?
21:16Same way.
21:16Yeah.
21:17We happy?
21:18Yes, thank you.
21:19We good?
21:19All right.
21:24So, 54 plays Robert's 39 as we go to a tea-time teaser,
21:29which is Rob Steele.
21:31And the clue, to get this, you need to think like a postman
21:34and rearrange the letters.
21:36To get this, you need to think like a postman
21:39and rearrange the letters.
21:50APPLAUSE
21:58Welcome back.
21:59I left you with the clue.
22:00To get this, you need to think like a postman
22:02and rearrange the letters.
22:05And the answer is sortable.
22:08Sortable.
22:09Now, 54 to Robert's 39.
22:11Robert, a little bit of time left, but not a great deal.
22:16Letters time.
22:17A vowel, please.
22:19Thank you, Robert.
22:20U.
22:21And another vowel.
22:22E.
22:23And another vowel.
22:25A.
22:26And let's go for a fourth.
22:29U.
22:30And a consonant.
22:31J.
22:32And a consonant.
22:33S.
22:35And a consonant.
22:36Excuse me.
22:37B.
22:38And a consonant.
22:41T.
22:43And a vowel.
22:46And another vowel.
22:48O.
22:49Stand by.
22:51T.
22:51And a consonant.
23:12Yeah!
23:20And a consonant.
23:20And a consonant.
23:22Robert just a five a five yeah five as well Robert's five joust joust and very good what
23:32else have you got can you have bute you certainly could you and and that's on the end and have
23:39bute's
23:39couple of bute's there Chris I like that but you would you including me there as you're looking
23:44over anybody's better yeah so we've got beauts we've got beats yep quite a few fights but beauts
23:52was our only sex as well good well done 59 plays 44 Liam come on letters time our constant please
24:00Rachel thank you Liam n and a vowel you and a consonant X and another T and a third
24:14n and a vowel I and another e and a third I and a final consonant and a final arc
24:30standby
24:35so
24:47so
25:04Liam? I'll go with a 6. A 6 and Robert? I think I've got a 7. So Liam? Tinier. Tinier
25:12and? I'll put an extra N in for tinier. Wow. How about that? Yes, excellent.
25:17Very good. But in the corner, Chris? That was pretty impressive, Tinier. We couldn't get past that, could we? Couldn't
25:24get more. If you wanted to use the X, you can have Trixie, T-R-I-X-I-E, which
25:30is a bet consisting of three doubles and one treble. Thank you very much. All right. So 59 plays 51.
25:37Hang on, Robert, hang on. But before we carry on with the game, let's have a word with Susie and
25:44her wonderful origins of words.
25:46Well, Nick, I don't know if you're familiar with the phrase, go tell it to the Marines. It's a little
25:51bit old-fashioned now, but it's a pretty scornful reply to someone whose story you don't believe at all. So
25:57it's utter disbelief in response to a tall story.
26:00And there's a very popular tale attached to it, which goes back not to our modern-day Marines, but to
26:06the much older military unit belonging to King Charles II.
26:10And the story goes that in Samuel Pepys' diary, he reports how Charles II was once at a banquet with
26:17the diarist, who was entertaining him with anecdotes about the Navy and the subject of flying fish, fish that fly,
26:24came up in conversation, had the whole company laughing in disbelief, including the king, except for one Marine who claimed
26:33that he too had glimpsed at this flying fish.
26:36So the king was busy mocking this poor officer, and through that, so the story goes, the stereotype arose of
26:43the fact that Marines were intensely gullible.
26:46Unfortunately, if you go through all the way through Samuel Pepys' diary, there is no such entry to be found.
26:53And if you do a little bit of digging, you'll see that the story was in fact a hoax caused
26:57by William Price Drury, who wrote a book on naval stories.
27:01And he entirely made it up. The expression actually has its origins in the deep contempt that the sailors of
27:07the Navy have for the Marines.
27:09And the first Marine company, again in the reign of Charles II, was the Duke of York in Albany's Maritime
27:16Regiment of Foot back in 1664.
27:19And they were soldiers who enlisted, they were from the land, and then they were put on board a ship
27:24and had to try and learn the ropes quite literally.
27:27But obviously they were quite green.
27:28And the full expression was, go tell it to the Marines, the sailors won't believe it.
27:33And that's because a true sailor who had been trained on board a ship knew a lot more, or so
27:38they thought, than the Marines, who were land lovers, essentially.
27:42Brilliant. Excellent stuff. Well done.
27:46Thank you. Thank you, Susie.
27:48Now, Robert.
27:50A lot to go for here, Robert. Let us go.
27:53A consonant, please.
27:54Thank you, Robert.
27:55N.
27:56And another one.
27:58M.
27:59And another one.
28:00P.
28:02And a fourth, please.
28:04S.
28:05And a fifth.
28:07R.
28:09And a vowel, please.
28:10E.
28:12And another vowel.
28:13A.
28:15And another vowel.
28:17O.
28:19And a consonant to finish.
28:22And to finish, F.
28:24Countdown.
28:29Robert.
28:29Oh, well, I'll tell you a second.
28:29Oh, well, I'll tell you a second.
28:30Oh, well, it's a fifth one.
28:35Anyway, I'd say a fourth, please.
28:37And a vowel, please.
28:37And I'll tell you a second.
28:45And it sounds like a fifth, please.
28:53And a vowel, please.
28:54It's a fourth.
28:54And a vowel, please.
28:56Robert seven a seven now just a five and your five poems now then Robert
29:03format a foreman very good good seven yes my word one point behind Lee and this
29:12is gonna be a close thing come on the corner Chris and Susie persona mm-hmm
29:19yeah seven four member you beat the lot didn't you well this is nautical one
29:24appropriately given the marine story a man ropes are therefore eight they are
29:28safety ropes on board a ship especially the ones on the side of the ship's
29:32gangway that you use you'd lean on to or hold on to when you're going up the
29:41gangway things in here very tense here Rachel let's see how Liam does on the
29:46next letters game Liam have a consonant please Rachel thank you Liam Q and a
29:51vowel I and a consonant T and another P and a third F and a vowel E and another a
30:10a
30:11third vowel I and a final consonant and a final T and the clock starts now
30:27so
30:35so
30:36so
30:51Mmm, Liam.
30:53Just a five.
30:54A five, Robert?
30:55Dodgy six.
30:57Liam?
30:58Fated.
31:00No, then, Robert.
31:01Fated with an A in it.
31:03F-A-I-T-E-D.
31:04Ooh.
31:05I know.
31:05Not there.
31:07No.
31:07Sorry.
31:09Very well.
31:09No.
31:10Bad luck.
31:10Sorry, Robert.
31:11Bad luck.
31:12Now, then, Chris?
31:15Adept.
31:16Yep.
31:16Pretty good.
31:17Good five.
31:18Susie?
31:19One six, pitied.
31:21Pitied?
31:21Yeah.
31:22Pitied.
31:23Look at this.
31:24Now it's 58 to 64.
31:27Still time.
31:28Still time, Robert.
31:29But now let's turn to the numbers.
31:32Let's turn to Rachel.
31:34Robert?
31:35One large, five small, please.
31:37Thank you, Robert.
31:37One from the top and five small.
31:39And we could have ourselves a crucial conundrum coming up.
31:42Right.
31:42The final numbers game of the day is eight, four, three, nine, two.
31:48And the big one, 50.
31:50And the target, 213.
31:53Two, one, three.
31:55Two, one, three.
32:25Yes, Robert?
32:26Yeah, two, one, three.
32:27Two, one, three.
32:28Liam, two, one, three.
32:29Robert?
32:3150 plus two.
32:3252.
32:33Times four.
32:34Times four is 208.
32:36And then eight minus three is five.
32:39Eight minus three, yep.
32:40And add it on.
32:40Lovely.
32:41Two, one, three.
32:42And Liam?
32:43It's slightly different.
32:43They did four times 50.
32:45For 200.
32:45And then add the eight, the two, and the three.
32:47And the 13 again.
32:48Lovely.
32:49Well done.
32:51So.
32:57We are in crucial conundrum time.
32:59So, Liam, Robert, fingers on buzzers.
33:02Let's reveal today's crucial countdown conundrum.
33:28Robert.
33:29Is it infatuate?
33:30Infatuate?
33:31Let's see whether you're right.
33:34Wow, look at it.
33:40Well done, Robert.
33:42God, that was a good game.
33:44Oh, Liam.
33:4674 to Robert, 78.
33:48You played very well.
33:49You played very well.
33:50But he crept up, didn't he?
33:52He did, yeah.
33:52Robert crept up.
33:53But there's your goodie bag.
33:55There's your teapot.
33:56And you take them both back to Bristol.
33:59And good luck at Exeter in your maths degree.
34:03Excellent stuff.
34:04Well done.
34:05Robert Baxter.
34:06That was great stuff.
34:08You pleased?
34:09Very, yeah.
34:10You should be.
34:10But we'll see you on Monday.
34:12Oh, OK.
34:12How's that?
34:13All right?
34:13Monday it is, yeah.
34:14Have a quiet weekend.
34:15All right.
34:16Brilliant stuff.
34:17And we'll see you both on Monday, Susie.
34:19And Chris, you're going to come back again, aren't you?
34:21If invited, I'll be there.
34:23I would have put money on, young Liam.
34:25Nicely sweeped in by Robert.
34:26Perfectly done.
34:27Excellent.
34:28See you on Monday.
34:28And we look forward to seeing you on Monday, same time, same place.
34:31You be sure of it.
34:32A very good afternoon.
34:34You can contact the programme by email at countdown at channel4.com, by Twitter at C4Countdown, or write to us
34:42at Countdown Leeds LS3 1JS.
34:45You can also find our webpage at channel4.com forward slash countdown.
34:529 o'clock tonight on more for Gallipoli and the extraordinary true stories of the women who are vital to
34:57the 1915 war effort, new drama, Anzac Girls.
35:00Your personal deal up next here on Channel 4.