What Kelley Blue Book Homes is building with new valuation platform

Name: What Kelley Blue Book Homes is building with new valuation platform
Uploaded: 2026-09-16T08:00:17+00:00
Duration: 25 min 49 s
Channel: HousingWire

00:11Welcome, everyone. My guest today is John Liss, the CEO of True Footage and Kelly Blue Book Homes

00:16to talk about the launch of their new valuation platform and what it means for consumers,

00:21real estate agents, and maybe mortgage lenders. John, welcome to the podcast.

00:26Thanks for having me. Great to have you on. You guys have, you know, you've been busy. So let's see,

00:32we had, you had a Series C round and then you've entered into a JV with Kelly Blue Book. So

00:38now you

00:38are the CEO of Kelly Blue Book Homes. An exciting, let me, let me redo that part real quick.

00:50First, you had the Series C round and then shortly after that announced that, you know,

00:55you guys were doing a JV with Kelly Blue Book and now it's Kelly Blue Book Homes. You're the CEO

00:59of

01:00that. Really exciting new development in home valuation. So I'm excited about talking to you

01:06about that. Thank you. It's been an exciting couple of months for sure. So let's start with like,

01:12what does this JV mean? So when we looked at this, first of all, I thought it was really interesting

01:16to see Kelly Blue Book, a really trusted name, you know, for like car valuations, right? Enter the

01:22home space. And immediately you had people be like, oh, homes are so much more complicated than

01:26cars. How are they going to do that? Of course, that's where True Footage comes in. So maybe walk

01:31us through why you feel like, first of all, why now was a good time to do this and how

01:38you feel like

01:39you guys are providing something different than say like the Zestimate. Yeah. So as you mentioned,

01:45I'm the CEO of a company called True Footage. We're a valuation provider for a lot of large lenders

01:50across the country. And then we also sell software to appraisers. And after five years of doing that,

01:56we thought as a company like, wow, we have this incredible valuation software. It's really

02:01accurate. It's really interpretable. So people can actually see how we came up with evaluations.

02:05We have to find a way to get this in front of consumers. And when we thought about kind of

02:10who

02:10was the perfect brand to do this with, because we didn't want to build a brand ourselves in the

02:14consumer space, we kind of went through some options and ultimately landed on Kelly Blue Book.

02:21Obviously, it's a brand that's been around for 100 years. It has 95% name ID in the United States.

02:2765% of American car owners use it in any given year. There's this sort of nostalgic relationship

02:33that people have with it. Their dad used it, their grandpa used it. And so people really have an affinity

02:39for it as an authoritative brand, obviously, in the valuation space of another large asset, CARS.

02:46And there's great demographic alignment with kind of who's in market selling a home right now

02:50and the Kelly Blue Book typical user. The average home seller is 58 years old.

02:55So it just made all the sense in the world that Kelly Blue Book was the right brand. And Kelly

03:00Blue

03:00Book is an evolving brand. And so when we approached them and showed this vision and showed our technology

03:05and the accuracy that we were seeing on the valuation side, they decided that it was a good time to

03:11test

03:11it. And the test obviously has been going really well. And we're going to be rolling this out

03:16nationally over the next couple of months. So when you guys announced this, I did a podcast not long

03:22after I said, you know, like, that's how I bought my last car, right? It's a great resource. I'm

03:27probably right in your demographic too, where it's like, I look at it and go, this is what the car

03:31is

03:31worth. And once you have a Kelly Blue Book value on a car, you can take that to a dealer

03:35or somewhere

03:36else and be like, this is what I know it's worth. And so it's not just like something that's great

03:40for me. It's something that's recognized by the whole industry. How do you get something like that

03:45when it comes to a house, right? So you can say, here's what we think it's worth, but how do

03:51you get

03:51it to where everybody thinks, yeah, that's what it's worth? Yeah. I mean, it's a combination of

03:57actually having the goods related to the software and a branding exercise. I think when you look at

04:03the valuation industry, there are metrics that people evaluate on. So median error percentage

04:07is one of them. The percentage of the time that the valuation is within 5%, 10%, or 20% is

04:15what

04:15people look at on the valuation side. And so we're tracking those metrics across the country as we

04:20roll this out and seeing that our results are better than what else is commercially available.

04:26So that's one way. But what you got at is something really powerful and something that

04:30we're seeing in our data, which is people that are already on the market or sellers that are

04:35frustrated because they can't sell their house because they were sold a bag of goods by their

04:38agent who was just trying to lock them into their exclusive. They're coming to our website and

04:43looking for that verification of the price. And they want to show the consumer, hey, I've been listed

04:50for 180 days. I did a few price cuts, but finally my home is in an accurate price zone. So

04:54we're definitely

04:55heading in that direction in terms of building tools that can show to the market that this is

05:01the fair price and creating that kind of marketplace clearing price that Kelly Blue Book has been,

05:06you know, doing for a hundred years on the auto side. And that's just one kind of area and where

05:11we see this going. So let's dig in a little bit on the tools there, because like I said, I

05:16mean,

05:16the Zestimate's probably the first thing that came to people's mind. They were like, oh,

05:19it's an evaluation aimed at consumers to know something. And the Zestimate, I think it's gotten

05:25more accurate over time, but has been a bane of the real estate agent's existence for many years,

05:32because, you know, consumers will be like, hey, this is what it says my home is worth. And it may

05:37not be, you know, what it is worth, what the real estate agent or a buyer thinks it's worth. So

05:44maybe tell me, you know, how are you different than that? I think the Zestimate is an unbelievable

05:49tool. And obviously it led to, you know, what Zillow has become today. I think for homes that

05:55are not listed nationally, it stands at about seven and a quarter in terms of the error percentage.

06:02We have a totally different process. Number one, we are asking the consumer questions about their

06:07house. So we're validating some of the information up front with the consumer. Then we're also

06:13leveraging appraisal data to an appraisal methodology to create those valuations. So a lot of the times

06:21county records and MLS data and consumer reported data can be in conflict. And obviously with an

06:27automated valuation tool, the data in drives the valuation output out. And so really making sure

06:35A, that the data that we have is up to date, B, that it's being validated, and then C, the

06:40way that

06:40we're actually building the valuations with the appraisal methodology and the different kind of

06:46software tools that we've been experts on for the last couple of years in the appraisal industry,

06:51I think creates a totally different process. And then the fourth is, you know, we're adding new data

06:56sources into our model that I don't really think anyone else is considering, which I would consider to

07:02be our secret sauce. How will you measure the success of that valuation? Like, are you going to

07:10be, you know, in the back end, are you going to be able to say, look, this is, you know,

07:13this is what

07:14our valuation was, this is what it sold for, we give it a score, like, how do we know, like,

07:19this is going

07:19to be a better tool than some of the ones already out there? Yeah, so we're tracking that already. And

07:24the results are really good. Obviously, we don't have, you know, the sample size that would be

07:28required for institutional testing yet, because we're new. But as far as what we're seeing, the

07:33values are demonstrably better than anything else on the market. That being said, of course,

07:40if a consumer, you know, says their house is 5,000 square feet, and it's only 3,000, like that

07:45creates

07:45an issue. So we rely on the consumer having accurate data. But we're already seeing tons of consumer

07:53reviews of, wow, finally, someone understands the value of my house, everything else on the internet is

07:58junk. And so it's been exciting to see that. And then we're also building, you know, valuation

08:03products for lending institutions and for the mortgage industry as well. So on these valuations,

08:10you're looking at, you know, the data that you have in your system about this house about, you know,

08:16comps, I'm sure you're talking to the consumer, but you're not really, are you running a, sorry,

08:23I can't remember what it's called? Is it like a hybrid or is it a, what's it called where it's

08:27just a, are you running a new evaluation? I'm going to redo this, but what's it called? Are you

08:31running an actual valuation as if you were selling the house? Yeah, we run an, I mean, we run a

08:36valuation, so it's an AVM. Okay. Let me, let me rephrase that.

08:42Okay. So obviously you're, you're looking at the data, you're talking to the homeowner. Those are,

08:47those are pretty different things than say the Zestimate. So you're actually running a valuation

08:52on that house, like it, as if someone was already under contract and you're doing it just like you

08:57would if they've hired an appraiser? Yeah. So it's not an appraisal, obviously, because we don't have

09:02an appraiser signing off on it. But it is evaluation and we are taking the consumer data that they're

09:08putting in. And then we're running it through our software called TrueTracks, which is the software

09:13we use in the appraisal industry. And now we're using it for consumers and it's not instant. So

09:18it's, it's different than Zestimate or Redfin Estimate or something like that, where you type

09:23in your address and you get a value. It takes minutes to actually run. And sometimes we have a

09:30human in the loop, depending on the complexity of the order as well. And so then we return a value.

09:36And so our kind of thesis is we're not just going to return junk for the sake of returning junk.

09:41We

09:41actually want to make sure that we're doing the right work. And we're obviously, it's not a one

09:46size all solution, depending on the complexity of the data, depending on if there's matches or not

09:51matches, everything goes down kind of a different process. So how does Kelly Blue Book Homes make

09:58money in this process? Today we are connecting agents with sellers. So people go on our website,

10:07it's a seller lead platform. So people are going on there because they're thinking about selling

10:11their home in the next three months, six months, 12 months. And real estate agents that we've vetted

10:17are connecting with those people and then selling properties. And we've had people of all price ranges

10:25on there. I was working, helping an agent with a $48 million house in Malibu this weekend. And last

10:32week was a $70 million house in Laguna Beach, of which there's only a couple. And then we have

10:38people putting in, you know, $100,000 homes. So it really kind of people of all income brackets and

10:45backgrounds obviously have a preexisting relationship with the Kelly Blue Book brand. They are exhausted

10:52by the available options and don't trust the available options online related to their home.

10:56And so that's why they're coming to our website. And that's what our agents are connecting with.

11:01So that agent selection process, let's talk about that. Because another big thing, you know,

11:07with Zillow that people, you know, that consumers really appreciate, but maybe agents have felt over

11:13the years, different ways about that. So how do you select these agents? How are you making that,

11:18you know, because you've said on your, on your, on your site, it's not pay to play. It's not like

11:23someone's, you know, paying you for those leads, you're connecting them. So how are you doing that?

11:28Well, we do have a subscription product, but it's not as if someone can just come on the website and

11:33say, I want Beverly Hills and they get Beverly Hills. We're actually making sure that if you're

11:39working that zip code, you have a demonstrated history in that zip code. You have good sale to list price

11:44ratios. You have good days on market that are better than the competition. You have a high success rate of

11:50once you get an exclusive, how often are you getting a sale across the finish line? How many times are

11:55you

11:55price cutting people? Because we know a lot of agents play that game where they lock up exclusives and then

12:02price chop people into oblivion. And we don't want that experience for our brand. And so it's not as if

12:09just

12:09anyone can get on here. We're really taking the time to make sure that you are the right person for

12:14your zip code. And we're going through a rigorous interview process. And right now we have a back

12:19list of about 6,000 people that are agents that are trying to get on the platform. We're onboarding,

12:25you know, at a good pace, but we're intentionally trying to pick the right people based on the right

12:30area. So if you had say six people apply for that Laguna Beach house, how are you deciding between

12:36the six people? Or are you giving the consumer six options?

12:39No, it's one option. So that's one of the things also that the agents found for us. It's both agents

12:45and the

12:45consumer that were frustrated with these other lead processes. And that's not calling out anyone in

12:50particular. But the consumer is like, man, I'm getting called from six different people and they hate that.

12:56And then on the agent side, it's speed to lead. And so you have three agents fighting over the same

13:03lead and

13:04they're all calling at the same time. And we're not trying to just be a speed to lead factory.

13:09Of course, we want people to respond in a timely manner because that's what consumers expect.

13:13But it's not just about, you know, being there in the first second. So as far as Laguna Beach,

13:18we feel really good about who we have in that area. He's one of the top five agents in Orange

13:24County.

13:25He might even be number one. And that's sort of by design.

13:29So back to like, if six agents apply, are you looking at like this agent is best for this?

13:35You know, for, you know, if selling a $10 million house is a very different experience than, you

13:40know, selling maybe a median home in Laguna Beach, maybe that's 2 million. I don't know.

13:44It's a pretty expensive area. But like, so how are you making that? Like, even within regions,

13:49you're probably selecting by the house price or what does that look like?

13:55We're looking for people that are comprehensive. So meaning that they'll handle anything within

14:00their zip code. Obviously, there are some zip codes in the US. Like if you look at us,

14:04we're not in New York yet, but there are parts of there are zip codes in New York where you

14:09can go

14:09from 10 million to a million very quickly. And to your point, that's a very different agent.

14:15But for the most part, in a lot of the counties and zip codes that we've launched in,

14:19the zip codes are a little bit more even in terms of the pricing.

14:23And so we have a model where up to a few people can be in any given zip code. And

14:29then those people

14:30will round robin within the zip code. And so that's how it's designed right now.

14:35Okay. So that answers my question. You have more than one person per zip code

14:38and it's going to go to, you know, who's available or you have some system for that. Because if I'm

14:44an

14:44agent out there, I'm like, what if I get, you know, I mean, if I have Kelly Blue Book out

14:48there saying

14:48this is the top agent that you're going to get and everybody else is kind of cut out, that's that

14:52wouldn't be ideal. Yeah. So we have multiple people that are allowed to do it. And some people

14:59buy the whole zip code. Some people are, you know, rotating with other people. And then obviously we

15:05have metrics around kind of who's having the best success, what are they doing, sharing those best

15:11practices with the other agents on the platform and really trying to make it a place where consumers

15:16are better off by meeting with the right agent in their area. And also the agents are able to

15:21connect with sellers that they maybe wouldn't have been able to meet otherwise.

15:26So I guess that begs the question, like if you have an agent who has paid to be on the

15:31platform,

15:32you've vetted them, but at some point you're like, you're not getting good results or the

15:35consumers aren't getting good results. Is there a way that you can say, yeah, we're not working with

15:40this agent anymore? For sure. I mean, obviously they're signing a contract, but what's most important is

15:46that the consumer has a good experience. And if we were to find out in some way that that wasn't

15:51happening, their calls were being ignored. You know, there's all these secret shopping studies

15:56that have been done on these platforms where there's been a lot of balls dropped. Like we

16:00have a brand to uphold and we reserve the right to uphold the trust and authority of the brand.

16:08Interesting. Yeah. This is going to be really interesting. We see a lot of different

16:12consumer, you know, big, big consumer brains like Bed Bath & Beyond, Kelly Blue, but coming into the

16:18space where you, you have a trusted name that, that people are very familiar with. And then you're

16:24pairing them with somebody like, like True Footage where you guys can bring in the expertise that

16:28you've had on the, on the mortgage side. Yeah. I mean, I think the, the, the key is this isn't

16:34random.

16:35You know, we, we, we haven't been selling toilet paper or betting for the last a hundred years. We've

16:40been a valuation brand for the last a hundred years that Americans are used to getting valuations from

16:46and trusted resources. Um, and we connect with people trying to sell assets. Um, you know, most of the

16:52time, a lot of these other portals are much more focused on the buy side, um, because they're about

16:58people searching for inventory and booking tours. Um, we are wholly pretty much focused on connecting

17:06with people before they make the biggest decision of their life and really trying to empower them

17:10with data around what's going on in their market, what's going on in their, um, sub market, what's

17:17going on with properties that look like theirs, who the right person is to be helping them through that

17:22process. And so that's kind of, you know, why I think we've been seeing, you know, some really early

17:27great success. So, you know, one of the things about his estimate is you can go on at any time

17:32and, and on Zillow and see what your house, what they say your house is worth. So when it comes

17:36to

17:36Kelly Blue Book homes, is it going to be the same thing where like at any given time, or is

17:41it more

17:41like when you've been, when you've reached out to someone or someone reaches out to you, like if

17:45there's some signal that they, they might be interested that you're, you've actually done the

17:48valuation on their particular home. Um, so a couple of things there where we're, when people come

17:54into our experience, they're getting a value and then we're going to be refreshing the values

17:59quarterly. Obviously markets change. An example of that is the Bay area right now is, you know,

18:05went from being kind of a, I wouldn't call it a depressed market, but definitely a colder market

18:10to, you know, things selling for 30% over ask on the regular. Um, and so three months is an

18:15eternity

18:16there. Um, you know, I live in Austin and we experienced something similar in, in 2020, 2021,

18:21and maybe negatively in 2025, 2024. Um, so we're going to be refreshing those, but then we're all

18:27also going to be providing the consumer with a ton of different experiences, leveraging our appraisal

18:32expertise. So, Hey, maybe you're not ready to sell your house. And in three, three years,

18:36you want to do some renovations. Here's if you improve your house by X, here's what you could

18:41expect to see, um, in terms of market, um, response to that. Um, and so there's gonna be a lot

18:47of tools and

18:48an engagement for not just people that are actively in market thinking about selling, or

18:53maybe think about selling the next 12 months, but really people that maybe they're three to four

18:56years out there in their sixties, they're thinking about downsizing, they're thinking about moving to

19:01their grandkids. Um, but they're not sure exactly what they're going to be doing yet. And so we want

19:06to build tools for them too. So in, when you think about that, are you going to have that sort

19:10of,

19:11uh, lead relationship with mortgage companies with people who can offer a HELOC for, I mean,

19:15what does that look like? Yeah, I think you're onto something.

19:21Yeah, I bet I am. Um, interesting. I mean, cause this little thing, like when you go to buy a

19:25car,

19:26like, like I said, I did that because I looked at this and then once I had that value, there

19:30was not

19:31only, you know, like, it was like, I could go to a dealership and say, Hey, this is what Kelly

19:34I could go. Sometimes they were being sold by individual people. And we were all on the same page

19:39that this value has, you know, is something that we can actually, uh, work around. So it feels like

19:46the larger your, you know, the ecosystem is around, yes, we agree on the value of this house. And then

19:52that's, or at least, uh, you know, an approximate value valuation of this house that the more impactful

19:57it's going to be. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's to your point, when you're looking to sell a house,

20:02it's not one size fits all. Um, and there's people that need to sell it in two weeks. There's people

20:08that

20:08can be patient. There's people that want to try a private aspirational price. You know,

20:13obviously that's been kind of a theme going on. Um, so we're trying to help people kind of whoever

20:19they are, wherever they are. Um, and we think that, uh, ultimately we can build a lot of tooling

20:26and segmentation based on the different types of sellers that we see on our platform.

20:31What do you think about, you know, like, it feels like this is something that can be done now that

20:36maybe couldn't even, even have been done two years ago. When you think about number one,

20:40all of the valuations that came in during the refi boom, right. Of 21, 2021 into 2022. And then also

20:47just with AI being able to handle that amount of data and, and really get being standardized. Do you

20:54feel like this is of a moment? Yeah, I think, I mean, if you look at the AVM industry, um,

21:00there's

21:00sort of this 7% median error percentage, um, that has sort of been this four minute mile, so to

21:06speak,

21:07where, you know, nobody's really been able to break it. Um, and I think with a lot of the advancements

21:13you're seeing right now, um, people are going to break it. Um, and so it seems like accuracy is only

21:20going to get better over time. Um, I still think that, you know, there's a, a huge need for manual

21:26appraisals in, in many occasions, but definitely I think over the next couple of years, you're going

21:31to see, um, a lot more progress in terms of the accuracy of the, of the automated valuation.

21:38Well, before I let you go, I wanted to ask about UAD 3.6 or 3.6. I've heard it

21:43both ways. We'll see.

21:44I'm not sure what the right way to say that is. I'm sure, um, our listeners will let me know.

21:48Um,

21:49but you know, that's coming up pretty quick. How do you see that as, um, in an, in an interview

21:54we did

21:54with you earlier this year, you talked about how that could be a game changer. Um, in what ways do

21:58you feel like that is going to benefit the industry? A lot. Um, obviously, you know, we're

22:04coming up on kind of mandatory, which is in November where we're going to see this shift. Um, I think

22:11it's going to be an interesting November and December. Um, just because depending on who you

22:16talk to, there's varying degrees of readiness. So we're going to see kind of how ready the industry

22:20is for this occasion, but, um, we at True Footage are obviously ready and we're already doing tons

22:26of 3.6 reports. But I think what you're going to end up seeing is more productivity, um, for the

22:32appraisers that end up choosing to adopt. Um, there's been a lot of conversation around maybe,

22:38Hey, I don't want to do this anymore, or, um, it's too many fields of collection, but I think it's

22:44a

22:44interesting moment for the early adopters. And I also think the software landscape is going to change

22:50entirely. Um, there are, I think 19 vendors that are building something for this. So, um, 19 vendors

22:57for 30,000 appraisers is obviously, you know, that's not going to be what it looks like 18 months

23:02from now, because there's not going to need to be 19 vendors. Um, but there's really some innovative

23:09stuff being built across the appraisal industry right now. And I think it was a corner of the mortgage

23:15ecosystem that maybe after Dodd-Frank was a little bit ignored. Um, and so finally it's sort of

23:21getting its, its time in the sun. So interesting. I, to your point, you know, I've, I've talked to a

23:26lot of people who on the record, everyone's like, this is plenty of time. Everybody had plenty of time

23:30to, to get used to this off the record. Maybe some people have told me like, yeah, this was pretty,

23:35this is pretty quick. Well, I think they had plenty of time to get ready. I don't know that they

23:38did, you know? Um, I mean, we've been talking about this since I was, before I even started

23:44True Footage, this was a conversation. So everybody's known about this, but obviously,

23:49you know, there, there's definitely some procrastination in the mortgage industry

23:52in general. Um, and so I think, you know, the people that are ready will be ready. The GSEs have

23:57been very consistent where we're moving forward. Like the messaging has been really good. It's just

24:01whether, um, we all get there or not. We will see. John, thank you so much for being on and,

24:07uh, talking to us about this exciting new, uh, launch that you guys have had right now. How many

24:12states are you in? We're in 11 states right now, and we're going to add another 11, uh, October 1st.

24:18Oh, wow. Okay. And in 2027 nationwide? Yeah. Um, we might be a little behind in the Dakotas

24:24and Alaska and Hawaii, but other than that, um, we will be nationwide. I think it's worth pointing

24:30out that, you know, part of True Footage, part of your DNA is having on-staff appraisers, right? So

24:36that's pretty different than a lot of appraisal companies. How do you think that that ties in to

24:41this? I think the industry is starved for expertise. And I think with AI in general,

24:48that's going to be one of the winners is just people that actually know what they're doing

24:52versus just slop and junk, which is what a lot of the AI outputs are. And so appraisal is in

24:59our DNA.

24:59We've spent five years studying this industry from the, all different kinds of modes of production.

25:06Um, and so we feel like it was just a coming out party with Kelly Blue Book, because now that

25:14we've

25:14really dialed in how to really do the best valuation work we can, um, let's partner with literally the

25:20best brand on the planet to, to distribute it out. And so that's kind of what our, our thesis was,

25:25it's just expertise and quality. Great to talk to you. Of course, we will be following this, uh,

25:32your, your company's story very closely. Our audience is very interested. So John,

25:36thank you so much for being on. Thanks so much.

What Kelley Blue Book Homes is building with new valuation platform

Category

Transcript

Comments

Recommended