00:08Simon Harris, Minister of Finance,
00:09Thánis, the Deputy Prime Minister of Ireland.
00:11Thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:13Thank you very much, Joanna.
00:14We saw the appearance of Mark Carney, Prime Minister of Canada,
00:18at the European Parliament with great aplomb.
00:20There is talk of this so-called associate membership.
00:22He didn't use that language, Ursula von der Leyen did.
00:24What, in your knowledge, does that actually mean?
00:27The actual meaning behind the phrase is something quite frankly yet to be determined,
00:31but it bothers us less because, you know, you can use whatever phrase you want.
00:35The good news here is that the State of the Union made a real signal of intent
00:39to have a much closer relationship between Canada and the European Union.
00:42And I think we can't gloss over that fact.
00:44So I think, obviously, associate membership is not a phrase in European treaties,
00:48but I think it's very clearly a political commitment to work
00:52and collaborate much, much more closely.
00:54And as Canadians say, as Europeans say, while we might live geographically apart,
00:58our values and our outlook on many, many issues is the same.
01:01So what I believe it to mean now is that a substantive body of work
01:04will be agreed between Canada and the European Union
01:06that we will take forward in the time ahead.
01:07And we're enthusiastic about what that programme might look like.
01:10Donald Trump has said it's a hostile act,
01:12and he'll apply even more tariffs on both sides of them.
01:14And so are you concerned about that?
01:16This is not a hostile act towards anybody.
01:18This is a positive development for the European Union wishing to partner with Canada,
01:22which we already do in areas of common interest.
01:24But of course, we'll continue to economically partner with the United States.
01:27We have a trade agreement with the United States.
01:29A lot of painstaking work went into that.
01:31We saw it advance even further in relation to Irish whisky
01:34and the decision made by President Trump to remove tariffs from that last week.
01:37We need to build on that and find more opportunities.
01:40So this isn't either or.
01:41Can I talk to you about Ochanish, the plant here, the Russian-owned plant that exports aluminium to Russia?
01:49We know it also exports across Europe, but obviously there's a real concern that that is found then
01:55in the defence industry in Russia, which is obviously prosecuting this war against Ukraine.
02:00Will Ireland sanction that, even if it isn't formally as part of the sanctions regime?
02:05We don't cherry pick when it comes to sanctions.
02:07We stand with Ukraine.
02:09The European Union stands with Ukraine.
02:11Ireland, as the president of the Council of the European Union, stands with Ukraine.
02:14And there's a war taking place on the continent of Europe.
02:16And we must stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes.
02:19The issue, though, in terms of what is sanctioned or not,
02:21is a matter in the first instance for the Commission to bring forward proposals.
02:24That's always been the approach we've taken in this country, sanctions at an EU level.
02:28I think it has served the collective European effort against Russia well.
02:32But we've been very clear too, Illumina is not a product used in Ireland.
02:37It is, though, perhaps a critical supply chain for many parts of the European economy.
02:41We've provided significant information, indeed all information that we have
02:45and can muster to the European Commission, working hand in glove with them.
02:48And it's a matter for the European Commission in the first instance to decide whether they wish
02:52to sanction Illumina, which has up until now not been a sanctioned product at European levels.
02:57The evidence is that the Illumina does make its way into Russia.
03:01I mean, Russia has a war economy anyway.
03:02So, you know, it does make sense that it would definitely be part of the war machine.
03:07Would it be something that Ireland would consider doing unilaterally?
03:10Ireland's approach to sanctions have always been to operate at a European level.
03:13And we've been consistent in relation to that.
03:15I think it would be rather odd for Ireland to adopt any other approach.
03:18It will be Taoiseach and Prime Minister of Ireland next year.
03:21There is an impasse in relation to France.
03:24France is blocking the passage of the sanctions package because it's a national security issue,
03:28they say, this guy called Umarov, who they want to remove.
03:31Do you think that the French are entitled to do that?
03:35Do you think that it's something maybe there should be a compromise on?
03:37I would say is, I mean, the European Union has managed to pass so many packages of sanctions
03:42together with member states, well more than 20 now.
03:46And at each and every occasion, there's often moments of discussion, moments of engagement.
03:49But we've always managed to find a way forward. And I've absolutely no doubt that we will do so in
03:54this instance as well. So I don't want to cut across, particularly in our presidency role,
03:58where we are as an honest broker in all engagements between member states.
04:02And we've seen spiralling prices when it comes to energy costs, diesel in particular.
04:08We heard Donald Trump say that part of the reason for the diesel high prices is Zelensky
04:14attacking Russian diesel infrastructure, not at all relating that to the war in Iran.
04:20Do you agree with that?
04:21No, I mean, the reason there's a major energy crisis in the world right now is because the
04:24Strait of Hormuz is closed. And the most pressing issue on the mind of all European finance ministers,
04:30and I think quite frankly, most of our citizens across the European Union,
04:33and certainly here in Ireland, is energy prices. Energy prices at the pump, of course,
04:37in relation to diesel and petrol. Prices on the farm in relation to things like green diesel.
04:42But now, as you come into the winter period, the cost of heating your home and the cost of energy
04:46in people's homes too. And governments around the world, including in Ireland,
04:51are seeking to make interventions to assist people. But I always make the point,
04:55and would make it again today, the greatest economic intervention we could see is de-escalation
04:59in the Middle East. And indeed, we saw that during the summer, because it was a period of time,
05:04albeit brief, where there had been some de-escalation, and we saw a very rapid fall
05:08on the commodity markets, and therefore a benefit at the pump.
05:12And did you have any indication from Donald Trump around where this is? Because we saw
05:16this memorandum of understanding signed in Versailles. Nothing has evolved since then.
05:20The war continues, people are obviously dying, but from a global economic perspective,
05:25it's a bit of a disaster.
05:26Yeah, and you're quite right to make the point about the loss of human life as well,
05:29because I think, while I'm obviously speaking in the capacity of a finance minister,
05:33we should never become numb to the loss of life in war and the loss of life,
05:38whether that's the loss of life in Ukraine, whether it's the horrific genocide we've seen in Gaza,
05:43whether it's the situation in the Middle East more broadly.
05:46So, I mean, we need to see a de-escalation of conflict more broadly in the world.
05:51But from an economic perspective, I mean, I'm concerned.
05:54I'm very concerned in relation to what we've seen on oil markets in recent days.
05:58I'm very concerned also with the fact that not only are we seeing not a de-escalation,
06:04we're actually seeing an escalation and indeed more fronts in terms of complications opening up
06:08regarding energy. So this is a critical issue.
06:10Your fellow finance ministers have asked you to look at a potential windfall tax for energy
06:15companies that are earning billions while everybody else is suffering. Can you tell us
06:18where you are with that? Is it something that you support?
06:21There are energy companies making extraordinarily large profits on the back of this energy crisis,
06:26and they're not making those profits on the basis of being more enterprising or being innovative.
06:30This isn't about rewarding enterprise. They're making the profits because of the
06:33chaos that we're seeing in the energy markets as a result of the Strait of Hormuz being closed.
06:38So I will be working with colleagues in the first instance here in Dublin this weekend
06:42to have an initial conversation around a windfall energy tax.
06:46I don't want to preempt that conversation, but it's likely that we will ask the European Commission
06:51to do more work or more examination of this, and that we will formally discuss it in Brussels
06:56at the next formal meeting in October.
06:59And you mentioned a few minutes ago what you describe as a genocide in Gaza.
07:04Do you think that the EU needs to do more? I mean, in terms of putting on the table
07:11the options to go after settlements, illegal settlements in the West Bank, Israeli settlements,
07:16given that they're illegal under international law, as your government says itself?
07:20I'm massively pro-European, but I think when it comes to Gaza, it's been disappointing that we had
07:26to put it mildly that more hasn't been able to be done at that coordinated level. Now, really good work
07:30has been done in recent times. My colleague, the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Helen McEntee,
07:35has made significant progress at an EU level on a range of fronts, and the Irish presidency has kept
07:39Gaza really to the fore. But what you say is also true. Member States listening to their public
07:45are moving ahead. We would always rather see action at an EU level because we think it's more
07:50impactful. I think it's much more impactful. Now, the European Union is a really large contributor
07:54in terms of aid and humanitarian assistance, but the world in general is not doing enough.
08:00And no part of the world, including the European Union, can absolve itself from that in terms of
08:04the horror that's taking place in Gaza.
08:06Well, what do you say to countries like Germany and Italy who are blocking any uniform action,
08:11therefore creating or allowing a state of disunity?
08:15But what I would say to everybody in the European Union is it's really important we're true to our
08:19values. And I think more and more people are looking to Europe to espouse and practice those
08:25values, those values in terms of respect for international law, for human rights,
08:30calling out things that are war crimes when they take place. And I think we don't want to look back
08:35at
08:36this period of time and say, where was our voice?
08:39Just a final question. You know, Ireland is seen as a laggard when it comes to defence. We know that
08:44that's a sort of a consensus view because there's such little spending. And maybe it's to do with the
08:49fact that Ireland is so geographically dislocated from Russia. So it hasn't had that need for such
08:55intense deterrence for many years. But there is the subsea cables. There is the fact that we could be a
09:02target here in Ireland because other parts of Europe are well protected. So, I mean, how does
09:08Ireland respond to that? To countries that say, well, look, we're paying for Ukraine. We're paying
09:12for the security of the European continent. You can't really lecture us on Gaza.
09:16Speaking up in relation to international law, human rights and calling out what's happening in Gaza is
09:21an important and legitimate thing that anybody can and I believe should do. In relation to defence spending,
09:26though, it's a legitimate issue. But I would just say that perhaps the characterisation that I've
09:30heard in the past that you've fairly made is somewhat out of date. We're very significantly
09:34increasing our defence spending in this country, increasing our capital spending by 46%, almost
09:39doubling it. We need to do more. We will be doing more. We're investing a lot in maritime capability,
09:46in radar and sonar systems as well. Despite our geographic periphery, this country is not
09:53immune from threats and is not immune from risk.
09:56I'm sorry, just for this to go. The EU did make some proposals this week in relation to children's
10:02access to social media. You know, Ireland is one of those countries that obviously has been trying
10:08to push for this at a European level. But at the same time, there's a sort of a focus on
10:12Ireland
10:12because of the tech companies being headquartered here. Tell us a little bit about the difficulties
10:17that Ireland has in regulating these companies while also trying to stay on the right side of them so
10:22they stay here and invest. We have no difficulty whatsoever. I mean, people locate here in Ireland
10:27not for the weather, but they locate here in Ireland because they know that we have a strong ecosystem
10:34when it comes to foreign direct investment and to technology companies, that we are an English
10:38speaking country with access to the European single market and that we have a stability when it
10:44comes to politics and enterprise policy. But we still take regulation extraordinarily seriously and
10:49there's nothing we take more seriously than the protection of our children. And we've been
10:52advocating at a European level, but also working at a national level to prepare to do more. I do
10:57think social media companies have been experimenting with the mental health and wellbeing of young
11:01people. What I say by experimenting is, I mean, we don't know the impact that this technology is
11:06having on the developing brain of a child. We know enough that it's not being pretty good.
11:10And we know, and you're entirely correct, we know enough to know that it's negative. So I mean,
11:13there are certain things that we decide as a society that before a certain age you shouldn't
11:19utilise. Drink being one example, right? And I think we need to adopt an approach that says before
11:24a certain age, being on social media isn't the cultural norm. And I think the EU Kids Act takes
11:30us in a very positive direction in relation to that. And then perhaps a graduated approach beyond that
11:34too. But I think what the EU Kids Act potentially does, and we've got to again see the detail,
11:38it's for the first time it switches the obligation. Instead of putting the responsibility on the
11:41parent and the child, it puts the responsibility on the company to prove what they're doing is safe.
11:46But the era of self-regulation is over and it can't be the Wild West.
11:50Okay, Simon Harris, Minister of Finance for Ireland.
11:52Thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
11:55Thank you very much.
