00:00Germany tried for decades not to be a big military power.
00:04But with growing fears that war could spread across Europe, the country is rearming.
00:10German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius received the first of almost three dozen F-35 fighter jets Germany is buying from
00:17the U.S.
00:18Now, the F-35 is not just any warplane.
00:21It's the U.S.'s most advanced stealth fighter jet with a shape and a special coating that make it remarkably
00:28hard to detect using radar.
00:30It's also capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.
00:33The jets will be replacing Germany's current fleet, which dates back to the Cold War.
00:40And during that visit to Lockheed Martin's facility in Texas, Pistorius said the purchase marks a new era for the
00:47German Air Force and for Germany's role in NATO.
00:51This moment is living proof of the power of the transatlantic partnership and the successful cooperation between Germany and the
01:00United States.
01:02This aircraft ushers in a new era of air power for the German Luftwaffe.
01:07The F-35 will enhance our ability to defend our country, to fulfill our responsibility within NATO, and to contribute
01:18to security in Europe.
01:21It is an important step towards further strengthening collective deterrence and defense.
01:28Germany is paying around 10 billion euros for the jets.
01:33It placed the order just after Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
01:38And it's taken that long to make them.
01:40Here's DW's Benjamin Alvarez Gruber reporting from Texas.
01:44The idea is that these 35 jets that Germany purchased, and they will start being delivered over the next couple
01:52of months, it's quite a lengthy process.
01:54It takes three years to build one of them, and today was the official rollout of the first F-35
02:01fighter jet.
02:02And its stealth capabilities will allow Germany, especially when it comes to nuclear deterrence, especially that NATO needs in Europe
02:12to carry out these tasks.
02:15And so, therefore, what we heard that this rollout ceremony is just like the rollout of another fighter jet.
02:20But this is actually a new era for the German Air Force.
02:24So, there's a lot of flight testing involved, first by Lockheed Martin, then by the U.S.
02:32There is already training ongoing for German fighter pilots.
02:36The jet that we saw today during this rollout ceremony had his first flight only a couple of days ago.
02:43So, it's actually a lengthy process that goes into these jets until they are officially delivered.
02:50And there comes, of course, the training of the staff, there's maintenance that needs to be done with these new
02:56planes.
02:56And then, it's also something that needs to be done at the Air Force facilities in Germany to actually allow
03:02these jets to operate and then integrate into the system.
03:07The thing is that many European countries have decided to buy these F-35 fighter jets.
03:13And the idea is that there is something called interoperability so that Germany can, for example, with Finland,
03:19that recently also had the rollout of their first F-35, actually share these capabilities working closer together.
03:26To talk more about this story now, I'm joined by Michael O'Hanlon.
03:30He focuses on defense strategy and foreign policy as a director of research at the Brookings Institution in the U
03:37.S.
03:37Michael, it's not just Germany buying the F-35.
03:42There's a list of European countries now that includes the U.K. and the Netherlands.
03:46Finland is also buying them.
03:48How significant is it for NATO's strategy to have the same jets in several European countries?
03:56Greetings.
03:57Well, you know, it's actually very good in the sense that we can all talk to each other.
04:02The computers can talk to each other.
04:04If there ever were a war, heaven forbid, we can integrate and we can divvy up targets.
04:09We can talk to each other about how to defend certain assets.
04:12We will be efficient.
04:14So that's all great.
04:15On the other hand, I also know that there are two other very, very prominent realities here.
04:22One is that Europe wants to build its own fighter jets.
04:24And the second is that President Trump has understandably injected huge uncertainty into the very fabric of the NATO alliance.
04:33When I say understandably, I don't mean to support President Trump.
04:37I mean to support Europeans who wonder just how dependable the United States will be in the future.
04:42And so in that regard, it's great when the F-35s are operated by many countries.
04:48But I don't take it for granted and I don't blame any country that wants to consider other options.
04:54Right.
04:54You said it yourself in Germany and several European countries, including the ones that are buying the F-35s from
05:03the U.S.
05:04There is this sense that maybe we can't rely on the U.S. forever to defend us against Russia.
05:10Is it a paradox that these countries that are trying to get away from reliance on the U.S. are
05:15buying these U.S. defense systems?
05:18Does that mean that these European countries will continue in a way to be dependent on the U.S.?
05:24I don't know if it's a paradox, but it's a complicated calculus because, you know, here I am.
05:31I'm an American.
05:31I lived in Washington for 37 years.
05:34I've been in the United States almost my whole life.
05:36And I don't know how to predict our politics.
05:39I would never have thought that Donald Trump could be elected once, much less twice.
05:44And so I can understand and certainly empathize with any European partner who wonders how dependable is the United States.
05:53Now, the good news is we've got 80 years of history behind us working together.
05:59And also, President Trump has not destroyed NATO.
06:03He has not pulled out even after five and a half years of being president.
06:07But the bad news is that he doesn't always seem committed.
06:11He talked about trying to take over Greenland militarily even as recently as this January.
06:17And he often questions whether NATO allies are doing enough to deserve American protection.
06:25So, well, Michael, they are.
06:27I mean, they are they are buying these F-35s from the U.S.
06:31And we did hear a little bit already about, you know, they're hard to detect by most radar systems.
06:38Is there another reason that this U.S.-made jet is the is the plane that so many countries are buying?
06:46Well, of course, I mean, strengthening the linkage to the United States is important for any European ally.
06:55It would have been important even in normal times before President Trump.
06:58It's certainly important now.
07:00You know, you would have to think twice about deliberately picking a fight with President Trump, who obviously can get
07:07pretty riled up about issues when he feels he's been somehow affronted or insulted.
07:12And so I'm not suggesting anybody should buy their airplanes just out of, you know, the need to prevent a
07:18brouhaha with President Trump.
07:20But it is one more factor. And so you've got the underlying reality that the United States provides the majority
07:26of NATO military spending and capability.
07:28And then you've got the additional factor that Donald Trump is president and he's impetuous and impulsive and prone to
07:36emotion.
07:37So all these things need to be factored in.
07:40I don't envy the position of any European decision maker as to which aircraft they buy.
07:45What does it mean for NATO's defense capabilities to have more of these F-35s in Europe and particularly in
07:54Germany?
07:55Well, it's a great airplane and it's, as you know, got multiple capabilities in terms of air defense, in terms
08:03of ground attack, in terms of nuclear delivery.
08:06Heaven forbid, in terms of just coordination across a wide number of alliance partners, because a lot of people, as
08:14you said, are buying this airplane and the United States is buying this airplane across multiple military services.
08:21I mean, it really is sort of the workhouse, excuse me, workhorse, you know, key airplane of the 21st century
08:28for the United States and therefore also potentially for many of its allies.
08:32So there's no one single fighter jet that you would describe as the linchpin of the NATO alliance beyond the
08:40F-35 in the 21st century.
08:42It is number one, far and away.
08:45But it doesn't mean everybody should be expected to buy it.
08:48It doesn't mean everybody will buy it.
08:50And we're going to have to figure out ways to integrate different aircraft into this overall system, whether one country
08:58or another buys it or buy something else.
09:01You mentioned, you said not everyone should have to buy it.
09:04Is there pressure from coming from NATO?
09:09Yes.
09:10Well, there's pressure coming from the United States.
09:12And we all know that the United States has been pushing for countries to have the same kind of equipment
09:18because it makes it easier to integrate technically.
09:22On top of that, there's the political reality that the United States provides more to NATO than most countries in
09:29terms of military spending and capability.
09:31And so at a political level, we want people to support us, support our industry.
09:37So, yes, there's pressure.
09:39But that's why I'm saying I don't envy the position or the decision makers of European countries because they need
09:47to account for that pressure and for that reality.
09:50But they also need to stand up for their own sovereign rights.
09:53And I would be the first to understand any given European country's decision not to buy the F-35.
09:59My preference would still be that, yes, they would buy the F-35.
10:04But if they don't, I understand why.
10:07And I understand there's going to be a number of aircraft in the broader NATO fleet that need to be
10:13able to talk to each other, work together, because not everybody is going to make the same decision.
10:17Well, Germany is buying the F-35.
10:20It's buying 35 F-35s.
10:22And eventually it's going to be putting them in the western German town of Buche.
10:27This is the same town where the U.S. is believed to store nukes.
10:32I'm guessing that's not a coincidence.
10:34Right.
10:35Well, the F-35 is a nuclear capable aircraft.
10:39And as you know, there have been, you know, 100 plus American bombs in Europe for a long time that
10:47in theory could be delivered not just by American aircraft and pilots, but by Europeans.
10:51And Germany is one of the countries participating in that program.
10:54That does not require Germany to decide today that it would participate in any given attack plan.
11:02Germany still is sovereign, still has its own choices.
11:04And certainly one of the most profound decisions any country could ever make, whether to engage in a nuclear conflict,
11:11any country in NATO would have the right to say no.
11:14But the planning is designed to create options for a number of countries to have the nuclear capability and be
11:21able to have a German pilot drop a American nuclear weapon out of a German F-35 on a Russian
11:28target.
11:29That is one of the options that the alliance has been trying to create and sustain for a long time.
11:34And it's replacing these Cold War era jets that were bought by Germany for the last era in which there
11:44was so much tension with Russia.
11:46Michael O'Hanlon from the Brookings Institution.
11:48Thanks so much for talking to us.
11:51Thanks to you kindly.
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