- 8 minutes ago
Troye Sivan joins The Rolling Stone Studio at our New York office to talk about his brilliant new album 'She's the Best,' out next month, his fandom of Nicole Kidman and getting to work with her on the visuals for the album's title track, plus the influences behind the new project. He also chats about some of his favorite peers and collaborators, including why Addison Rae's debut is one of the best pop albums in 15 years, what it was like working with The 1975's George Daniel for 'She's the Best,' and having a front row seat to the ascension of close friend Charli xcx's during 'Brat' summer and The Sweat Tour.
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00:00I think the relationship between like a young gay boy and like a self-expressive woman who like
00:05knows who she is I've been fascinated by them my whole life and I think that there's like this kind
00:10of conversation it's like the classic thing of like the English teacher who sees the gay kid
00:14in this case it's like me watching Moulin Rouge and being like I'm obsessed with Nicole Kidman
00:20yeah and I'm like five years old hello and welcome to the Rolling Stone studio today we have an
00:31extremely special guest extremely welcome Troy Zewan extremely thank you wow that's so nice
00:36thank you of course I'm excited to be here I'm glad you're here how are you I'm really good it's
00:41always like the craziest time to be I don't know just rolling something out like this in general
00:48is such a it's like a very special special experience it's a weird thing for like the
00:53nervous system you know you just feel like you're like so activated for like three months I feel much
00:59calmer than I like have before yeah that's good this morning I was scrolling on Instagram and a
01:04picture of you at the Russian Turkish baths oh popped up on my feed yeah is that part of your
01:08nervous system reset kind of routine that is an old photo but yes in general I love like I love
01:14an
01:14ice bath I love a sauna how have you been sort of taking care of yourself this summer as you're
01:19also rolling something out have you been taking care of yourself so I was going to the gym and then
01:25maybe like two months ago I fell off the wagon sure it's that classic thing where it's like am I
01:29being
01:30kind to myself by going to the gym because I know that that's good for me or am I being
01:35kind to myself
01:36by giving myself a break you know what I mean because I'm also releasing the album and stuff so
01:41I don't know what the answer is what you are releasing is a new album she's the best out in
01:47October I'm really excited to talk to you about it you are releasing first though the title track I
01:51just watched the music video for it you star alongside Nicole Kidman which is amazing tell
01:56me a little bit about the decision to cast Nicole Kidman and what she means to you sort of as
01:59an icon
02:00well so I'll start with the song the song was like it was so special because it really takes place
02:07during um I guess the tail end of of touring the last one and my last album was this like
02:14hyper sexual super like connected album that I wrote when I was feeling very very much like a citizen of
02:20the world you know and then I think maybe even because of like the reaction to to that album and
02:28where I all of a sudden found myself at some point along the way a sort of disconnect started to
02:33form
02:34going home to the hotel at the end of the day you know just like by myself and I actually
02:37was feeling
02:38very sort of like deeply like lonely a lot of the time in writing the album I was writing these
02:43songs
02:44that both kind of feel like they take place on stage so there's this like there is this like high
02:50octane side to the album that feels like really bombastic and whatever and then there is the songs
02:55that feel like the interior of my mind it's chaotic and a little bit manic sometimes and so the album
03:03is
03:03like a crazy journey and then she's the best happened where it was the first time where I wasn't writing
03:10about like myself I wasn't trying to psychoanalyze myself and figure out like what's wrong with me
03:16and I wasn't writing about men and I was like the one thing that has been constant in my whole
03:23life
03:23is the women yeah in my life and the feminine people in my life I just feel
03:31like such a deep sense of gratitude and like awe I was thinking about um the trans women in my
03:39life
03:39and I was thinking about my mom and my sister I think the relationship between like a young gay boy
03:45and like a self-expressive woman who like knows who she is I've been fascinated by them my whole life
03:53and I think that there's like this kind of conversation it's like the classic thing of like
03:56the English teacher who sees the gay kid in this case it's like me watching Moulin Rouge and being
04:02like I'm obsessed with Nicole Kidman yeah and I'm like five years old and so she's always just been
04:07such a picture of like the divine feminine you know to me and like so much power and presence and
04:14whatever and she's Australian and I just like I've always totally been obsessed with her we worked
04:22together on a movie in 2000 I think 18 called Boy Erased and that was the first time that we
04:26had met
04:26and like got her number couldn't believe it and I didn't utilize it you were saving it I was saving
04:32it and then when Gordon von Steiner who directs he directed all the music videos my last album and he's
04:37directing all the ones on this one we were talking about who is someone that kind of everyone in the
04:42world can understand what we're trying to show you know we were like it's Nicole yeah and so I asked
04:49her
04:49to do it and I was like I made a video of myself explaining the song and I sent her
04:56the song and
04:57I showed her some references for the video I was on a zoom with someone and my phone starts ringing
05:03and it was like an unknown number and I was joking to the person and they also had zero context
05:09of what I
05:10was talking about but I was like this might be Nicole Kidman and if it is I have to I
05:15have to go
05:16yeah and I start seeing like the voicemail transcript because I don't answer unknown numbers so I let it go
05:22to voicemail and then I see the number like the transcription starts coming and it's like
05:27hi darling Troy it's Nick and I was like oh slammed my laptop shut just like ended the meeting yeah
05:32picked
05:33up the phone and she was like I would love to do it yeah and I was waiting for a
05:37but and she didn't
05:38she didn't say but there's a lot of drag featured in the music video as well you you yourself also
05:42appear in drag tell me a little bit about um the role that drag has played in your life and
05:47what
05:47side of you that represents another kind of like angle in the song is really honoring I guess just
05:52the feminine spirit in general and the feminine spirit inside of me you know I think it's like
05:57something that I grew up fighting I don't know why because my parents are like not homophobic and
06:04never have been but I was very aware from a very very very young age some of my earliest memories
06:11are like fixing the way that I stood fixing the way that I stood or like you know I have
06:16I have a
06:16friend who's actually straight but he would like hang his wrist and I remember being like seven years
06:22old and thinking like what is he doing like why is he doing that he should you know he needs
06:28to fix
06:28that because otherwise people are going to think that he's like gay and obviously I'm projecting
06:31because I was very self-aware and I knew that I was gay like I've always kind of known
06:36over the years sort of like incrementally I've chipped away at that like shame and through it
06:44found so much um just like freedom and then doing drag for the first time I was like something
06:52was like unlocked you know you're like I'll get the nails put on and all of a sudden my hands
06:58just
06:58like move in a different way yeah and I think like what a relief to finally let yourself just like
07:04sit in that you know and like be and and then on top of it you know I think like
07:08I think about
07:11just what drag does to a culture being able to go and see people express themselves and be
07:19so true what I think it does is like show the this like inner self that um that is just
07:28I think should
07:29be celebrated going back a little bit to the woman that you were speaking about when you were inspired
07:35to write this song were there specific people in your life that you were thinking of while you were
07:39coming up with these descriptions I mean yeah it's a it's a collage of like so many people in my
07:44life
07:45it really did make me think though in like kind of a zoomed out way I was like even professionally
07:49I've always I'm in my happiest place I think when I am like standing next to a woman being like
07:56everyone look do you see what I see you know what I mean I'm a gay guy I I have
08:01made not in a braggy
08:02way I'm just like I can't believe it like to be able to have made music with like Ariana or
08:08you know
08:09Lily Rose Depp is a really close friend of mine and and I filmed the idol with her for like
08:13a year and a
08:14a half basically and then touring with Charlie and kind of like growing up sort of alongside her
08:18and you know so from a professional standpoint even I think I've always just like loved being in the
08:25orbit of of these women and so it's like a definitely a love letter to all of those people
08:30you posted on your Instagram like a little wig yes carousel with Addison Rae with the caption
08:35STB are we teasing something that's coming with her honestly no I mean like I just think she is like
08:43she's 100% one of the girls she like is so embodied effervescent and yeah yeah exactly what's
08:49your friendship with her been like I mean she's just like she's like sunshine she's like the
08:53sweetest girl in the whole world and truly has like a star quality that is just absolutely
08:59underneath but we go into this wig shop and she's like she goes into the window which is on Hollywood
09:06Boulevard and she's got this big red wig on and she's like doing all this crazy shit and I'm just
09:13like wow you know what I mean like I'm there with my phone taking a million photos of her and
09:17stuff
09:17like it's a concert totally I'm like I'm just in awe when she was on the cover of Rolling Stone
09:22I was
09:23on set watching her too and it's like in the mirror amazing right she just like sees herself
09:27yeah I'm very excited also genuinely one of the best pop albums of like the last 15 years I agree
09:32that album was so clear and inspired and cool yeah I love that album I love a woman who has
09:40visions
09:40most do I see Jack Antonoff in the production credits and the writing credits of she's the best
09:45specifically I haven't seen the whole album credits list but you guys first worked together in 2015 on
09:50heaven was there a specific reason that you reached out to him again for this basically my last album
09:55I was very sort of focused on making perfect pop like I that was sort of my my goal in
10:01a lot of
10:01ways I was sort of like raised as a songwriter in like the school of Max Martin or something you
10:08know
10:08I love that process and I think I wanted to try and break my own like rules try and make
10:17something
10:17that was quite like unstructured and and a bit um even kind of chaotic at times something that I love
10:23about Jack the way that he works is like everything is set up and ready to go and he's got
10:29like
10:29obviously the most insane gear and he's a very very talented like multi-instrumentalist and so
10:35um the process is so alive and like vibrant and he'll walk up to something and play it and he
10:43like will
10:43play it maybe twice you know and then it moves over to the next thing and it's this very free
10:47process
10:48and so that was very very very inspiring you talked a little bit about going on tour with Charlie what
10:54was the beginning of that collaboration with George yeah so I mean I guess we met through Charlie I love
10:59spending time with him and then musically like texturally he's so so talented yeah and I just trust
11:07him so much and so it was really nice and then also throughout the album there's really sweet sort of
11:12nods to again the women in my life like my sister is in both music videos so far the vocal
11:18that you
11:19hear at the end of she's the best it's Charlie I mean for I think I don't speak foreign but
11:23I think
11:23for both George and I Charlie is obviously a very very very special person to both of us and so
11:28to have her on that song in some you know kind of like small way is very meaningful to us
11:32I want to
11:33go back to the sort of thesis which is like this top layer of like this horny sexy party vibe
11:39and then
11:39as the album starts to kind of unravel there are these cracks that show where you start to notice
11:47this loneliness or this like very earnest longing tell me a little bit more about how that has shown
11:52up in your life in the past few years I feel like quite an introvert um and my work has
11:58always been
11:59one place where I feel like that's where I feel like I can really kind of like let loose in
12:04a way that
12:05feels you know it's not uncomfortable to me in that environment I went to a really really really
12:09small school and so I didn't meet a lot of new people growing up and then I was homeschooled and
12:16so I think like maybe always just innately it's been hard for me to to kind of like meet people
12:23and open
12:23up my work life getting as kind of like crazy as it did I think I probably went even more
12:29like internal
12:32and that's not what I want there's a tension there for sure and um I wanted the music to
12:40to kind of like feel like that and I also made sure that you know in the track listing I
12:45didn't
12:45want it to be like well the first half of the album is like up because that's not how it
12:49feels you know
12:50and also the upbeat sort of like turbo moments on the album they are true it's it's not it's not
12:56a
12:56performance of it's it's just that it's not the whole story yeah there's a duality there's definitely
13:02a duality and there's one song that's like more on the upside called Troy Meets World and it comes
13:08like quite late in the album in a sort of like in a area of the album where the album
13:13is you know
13:14you're really kind of like in your feelings for a while and then like I wanted this visual at least
13:19to me where like all of a sudden you're back on stage or like you're back on a you know
13:23like a
13:23crazy trip and you're meeting a million people but like feeling very sort of like disconnected from
13:29from everything you sing a lot about dancing and a lot of your your music sounds very like club ready
13:35how has your relationship with dancing and going out changed over those years it's like
13:41almost aspirational sometimes because the moments where I do feel like truly free
13:50um is like when I'm when I'm dancing in a place where I feel safe yeah and I think that
13:57that
13:58like unfortunately is not always the case again I'm a gay guy I want to go dance with
14:04gay guys and queer people and those are also just like statistically demographic wise those are like
14:12a lot of the people who listen to my music I had to kind of like try and find spaces
14:16where
14:17I could go and still relax you know what I mean and feel like I can let loose in the
14:22way that I
14:22feel like I need to you know I think that's also why I take partying so seriously is because like
14:26I think that there's like a spiritual like need a human need to let loose yeah and that's kind of
14:35what the party video explores yeah in the visual for that we were talking about partying and again how
14:40seriously I take it and how I do think it's like an innate human thing and that led us to
14:44okay well
14:45obviously people have have always partied right in some capacity you know people have always needed
14:49to let loose the conversation became okay well what would this party have looked like back then
14:55where were all the queer people and what were they up to even like you know there's through line I
15:00think
15:00between like the she's the best video and the party video where it's like the characters that we meet
15:04and see and she's the best I feel like we meet and see them in a very different version
15:08in in medieval party exactly the voiceover at the beginning of the party video yeah
15:13is Ian McKellen oh cool thinking about kind of like queer lineage and and the people that that have
15:20been doing this for a long time you know and been creating these spaces where where it is safe for
15:25everyone to like let loose potentially be in a room where they're not the minority for the first time
15:31in their entire life you know um I think it's really important and so um yeah that was kind of
15:37like
15:37where that video came from I love it what are some of the things that constitute a safe partying space
15:43for you I don't know you know I think like I when I went to Berkheim for the first time
15:49or when I went to like you know uh Bushdorf in Australia like a it's a it's a party that
15:56happens
15:56in the bush you know going somewhere like that where like absolutely no one gives a fuck I really
16:01appreciate it yeah I want to talk a little bit about party music and what songs you love
16:06specifically I'm thinking like songs about love and sex what are those songs for you
16:12the first one that came to my mind because that happened recently where I was about to leave
16:16and then I heard can't get you out of my head by Kylie Minogue
16:22and I was like this is such a perfect song like you need to be there it's like slinky and
16:28sexy and
16:29I fucking love that song so much I'm fascinated by dance music because
16:33it's all about patience and tension and control you know I think that you need to you need to have
16:40a very like light hand it's a really really really difficult genre to make I think because like you're
16:48in the room in the studio where all you're doing is actively thinking about the song that you're
16:52making right when you're in the studio like five seconds feels like 30 seconds you know so it's like
16:56you're you're almost too in it it's okay to like take your time and let things build and
17:01know you know have the kind of like restraint yeah to create that tension and you know like I
17:07think back to times on the dance floor where I like close my eyes and listen to the music and
17:13I could stay forever I was really inspired by the avalanches on this album and just sampling in
17:20general because I like I love interior design and I think a lot about you know like how something will
17:24get a natural patina over time and those are like the most beautiful things in the world to me
17:28because they they feel lived in and I think that sampling is sort of that for for music it's lived
17:34in and it's like it brings its own energy and story and texture you kind of you can try and
17:40recreate
17:41but I just don't think it's like possible since I left you by the avalanches that whole album I think
17:46was like really important for this to talk a little bit more about the specific songs on this album I
17:52personally really love sex star really fucking forever nice they're so like saturated fucking
17:57forever is now called ff oh sorry okay just to let you know squared I love the they're saturated
18:03with desire um and I am not a songwriter so I'm always curious do you ever feel like you have
18:09like a
18:09cap on honesty on vulnerability honestly no I think like I write all this music with my best friend in
18:16the whole world Leland um and I think that that intimacy is just like I I won't release it if
18:22it's
18:23not if it's not like true sex star is such a vulnerable song because it's like yeah I got a
18:31fake tan
18:31I got a personal trainer like I what do I need to do to like find this guy that I'm
18:39looking for
18:40and a common thread throughout the album is like this lyric happens a few times where it's like wherever
18:44you are whoever you are and then there's these like love songs that are like honestly kind of
18:48pathetic because I'm writing to this like guy that I don't know ff is definitely one of those where I'm
18:52like it's it's this imagination essentially like a positive spin on it is maybe it's a manifestation
18:58I loved the idea of writing this like love song but then just like absolutely swamping it in this like
19:05grit and weight and like heaviness you know and so that's that's where that one came from even when
19:10you look back on your past discography are there ever any songs that come on you're like in what
19:15way in more like that vulnerability oh I see yeah a few the songs that I've written about very specific
19:22scenarios that involve other people and I'm always like you know respectful and try to be and and you
19:30know like send people songs before and stuff like that but I do sometimes feel kind of bad that
19:35but my coping mechanism is like a very it ends up on you know like streaming platforms yeah who else
19:42did you work with on the production of this album it was really fun I brought back a lot of
19:46people that
19:46I have worked with for a long time but maybe haven't worked with in a while um Ali X is
19:51on a lot of songs
19:52on this album she was on my first album um Taylor Parks is on this album she was on my
19:57we've written a
19:58bunch together actually who else uh Styles Fuego is on a lot of stuff we've been working together for
20:05ages now my little brother is a producer on a lot of the songs because I wanted the music to
20:12to have this like kind of like intimacy and unpredictability to it I was like I want to make
20:19a lot of it at home so I was recording a lot of my own vocals and Tide my brother
20:24and Rob would send
20:25me songs and like in my head they're still like kids you know what I mean but they're unbelievable
20:32producers and and so they're on three songs yeah it's a really really special group of people that
20:37mean a lot to me what world were you in when you were creating this album in terms of what
20:41you were
20:41listening to maybe what you were watching and reading what was maybe like subconsciously or
20:46consciously shaping how this album turned out to be I just was like thinking about the music that I
20:50listened to this is really a testament to my collaborators is that like my references I think
20:55are very all over the place and for them to be able to kind of like go with me and
21:00and try things
21:02um was very very amazing of them I think it's everything from like the avalanches to King Cruel and
21:09um Arthur Russell and Madonna and Kylie like somehow all of those things make sense to me yeah you know
21:16there was a book that I read it's a very short book by Annie Arnault I love her the word
21:21love is in the
21:21title I read it in like a day it's like a very short book she wrote about this idea of
21:27going to
21:28the doctors to sit in the waiting room because it was one of the only places where she could sit
21:33and
21:33think guilt-free about this man that she's in love with I loved that so much yeah and so there's
21:41a lyric
21:42in the album um that's exactly that it's basically like I I do all these things to create time and
21:50space
21:51where I'm allowed to just kind of like it's like socially acceptable for me to just sit and do
21:55nothing but think of you you know it took you three years to release this album in a sort of
22:01society
22:01and like artistic climate where there's a lot of emphasis on output why was it important for you to
22:07take this time I mean the thing is it doesn't even feel like I took my time like I I
22:12don't understand
22:13how people do it I think they must be writing while they're touring it's crazy and you know like I
22:21I
22:22just I don't have that in me I really don't I need time I need time to like live with
22:28the song some of
22:29the songs are a year old some of them are like a couple of months old you know and it's
22:32like I think
22:33I only know through sitting with them that um that they kind of like stand the test of time to
22:40me and
22:41I want it to be fully realized and I think I would like really really really kick myself if I
22:48ever felt
22:48like I had rushed something I want to know what your favorite song on this album is
22:55I don't know it's really hard because I I love them all for such different reasons and I think
23:02because it is so varied like it's kind of like something for every mood a little bit you know
23:07for me I really love love so big it hurts yeah I that's the one that's got the line about
23:14waiting
23:15in the doctor suite just to buy more time the melody of the verses feels very it felt like a
23:19gift
23:19like it felt there's something kind of like humbly very classic about the way that that sounded and
23:26it was over strings and guitar and it just it feels so um I just I love it the closing
23:31track last
23:32time features your friend Lily Rose Depp tell me a little bit about your friendship why she was the
23:36right person for that monologue in French we met doing idol and I met her and it was like instant
23:43um she is so funny and so warm and just like obviously one of the she's the best girls like
23:51you
23:52know watching her exist is like it boggles the mind lost time is this really kind of like
23:59like it's another one of those manifestation songs right kind of detail this love and swimming in the
24:05pool and the guy sees through me like water and I love that about him and you know he like
24:10he really
24:11kind of like cuts through all the bullshit and can kind of see me and like halfway through the song
24:14basically it's like hope to meet you one day to whoever I'm singing to and and it's like how I
24:20just
24:20want to stay at home and be creative with my with my guy making up for lost time you know
24:27because
24:27it's taken us so long to meet each other I wanted something that felt romantic and intimate and
24:34close to me and um and I asked Lily if she would come by and she she wrote that in
24:41the booth love and
24:43I was just like it had the perfect energy and you know for me again just like thematically on the
24:48album
24:48to have her on there is very very very special you have been in the industry for over a decade
24:53now
24:53you've kind of gathered all of these collaborations met a lot of different people
24:58nowadays how do you navigate finding your space and community you've talked about partying and safe
25:03spaces how do you find safe spaces just with your friends and other people in the industry it's
25:07probably not as bad as I like think it is do you know what I mean it's it's more it's
25:12a reflection
25:12on me honestly like the way that I feel in the space but I think over time there's something
25:17grating at me sure in those spaces you know I should probably just like also push myself more
25:22and and try you know the last tour you went on was the sweat tour with Charlie um how was
25:28that
25:28what your experience on that tour one of the craziest moments in my life like what a insane
25:35time it reminds me of like there's been a few things that I've like been a part of in my
25:39life
25:39where you really feel like you just catch a wave of some sort like I think back to
25:46like going to VidCon with Tyler Oakley right and I remember thinking like what the hell is going on
25:54here like you know there was like so many people all screaming and they wanted us to like kiss and
25:59stuff and I was like oh my god like what is going on the sweat tour is another another kind
26:04of like
26:04one of these really really magical like tentpole moments in my life where I just think I can't
26:11believe I was there even just to witness Charlie in her ascension you know where I think it was
26:18like the rest of the world finally kind of seeing what I think like queer people have seen in her
26:24forever to know Charlie is to be inspired by Charlie you know like it's infectious and she leaves
26:33nothing on the table you know she just puts her whole self into it and she's so much fun
26:39she's so much fun but it wasn't just us on the stage it was like it was a party every
26:45night with
26:46however many people were at that show it was truly truly like communal and I feel like everyone was a
26:52part of it and that was what made it I think really special you have been for as long as
26:59you've been
26:59making music a sort of how do I say this an icon that people look up to as like it's
27:05true
27:05settle down it's true it's true as sort of like someone who has supported them through their own
27:10journeys as queer young people and so I just know that for many people in the world and people in
27:15my
27:15own life that you have been someone that they've looked up to a lot how does that feel daunting
27:20I have to say thank you to my friends and my family because they they created a really really
27:27solid like support system for me to feel like I could write songs about boys and you know like
27:37when I was like 18 I think if I was in a situation where maybe that was like more precarious
27:44maybe I
27:45wouldn't have felt like I could put myself out there in that way who did you write this for like
27:50who do
27:51you picture listening to this when this album comes out I'd be curious what like other musicians
27:55would say to this but I do really write it for myself like I make it because I like it
28:01and I
28:02make it to sort of process and chronicle times in my life I'm proud of myself for like being as
28:11honest
28:11as I have on it and it's one that I think I'll look back on and be like oof that
28:16was kind of like
28:17a weird time you know I'm really really curious how people are gonna like react and it's obviously
28:23it's different from the last one for sure I was on reddit the other day just like on your
28:28on your subreddit I was like what are they saying I've never been on there probably I don't want I
28:33didn't even know that existed until right now it's your own subreddit you know they're gonna
28:36they're just like what's it gonna sound like right okay um the words that came up like several times
28:41provocative they're hoping for for provocative music and they're hoping for danceable music and I
28:46said well they're gonna they're hoping for danceable okay I think they'll be happy yeah half the album
28:51yeah well thank you Troy that's it yeah oh wow she's the best is out October 9th thank you so
28:58much for joining us at the Rolling Stone studio thank you so much for having me this was really fun
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