Shant Banosian’s separation season: How top LOs win at 7%

Name: Shant Banosian’s separation season: How top LOs win at 7%
Uploaded: 2026-09-22T08:00:51+00:00
Duration: 35 min 56 s
Channel: HousingWire

00:00Hey everyone, I am Clayton Collins, the CEO at HousingWire, and I am back on the microphone

00:04hosting today's episode of Powerhouse. Today, I have the opportunity to speak with my friend,

00:10Sean Benossi, and the president of RATE. And the theme of the episode is separation season.

00:16We're operating in an environment right now where mortgage rates have surpassed 7%. Again,

00:21we could react with fear. We could freeze up. We could stand on the sidelines, but we're not.

00:26We're activating and executing on the business strategies, the mindset, the loan products,

00:32the knowledge, and the expertise to define separation season. This is the time when we

00:38grow businesses. This is a time when we gain market share, and this is the time we provide the most

00:43value to homebuyers and sellers who may otherwise be filled with fear, be afraid to act, or make

00:50the wrong decision. In this conversation with Sean, we're going to talk about data. We're going to talk

00:54about rates. We're going to talk about spreads, but we're going to spend a lot more time speaking

00:59about mindset, technology, and mortgage operations execution. Enjoy this conversation, and I will see

01:07you soon at the HousingWire Mortgage Banking Summit.

01:20All right, Sean, I'm looking at my HousingWire Intelligence app right now, and I see the 30-year

01:24rate at 7.28, a little bit higher than we forecasted as we came into 2026. Would you agree?

01:32Oh, yeah. I remember the beginning of 2026, and it was full of hope and optimism and excitement

01:40that we were on the other side of this three to four-year slog that we had started, and we're

01:45still in the slog. We went from three projected rate cuts coming into the year to, here we go,

01:54rate cut number one of probably, in my opinion, two, three, or four rate hikes coming up.

01:59Yeah, flip that. Yeah, the first rate hike. Yeah, and typically, these things do move in

02:06cycles, and so we have to anticipate a little bit more, but there's a lot the market's already

02:10priced in, but before we go into shaking our crystal balls here, the market's high, but we've

02:18been operating inside of this rate band, like you said, for the better part of the last three years.

02:23It's something Logan talks a lot about. For the last 36 months, we've been in this channel

02:29between, at the low point, we didn't see like a day at 5.99 on the average, but ultimately,

02:35we've been in a channel at six and a quarter to seven and a half, seven and a quarter for

02:39the last

02:40three years, which to me is like a good reminder to look at the data because you talk about mortgage

02:45rates in this cycle, the word volatility comes to mind. We've actually been pretty stable,

02:50just unfortunately not in the same stable channel we'd like to be in.

02:53Yeah, it's a good reminder because I think a lot of times we convince ourselves that this is going

02:59to be harder when I'm talking to myself, when I'm talking to my team members, when I'm talking to

03:05the company. We've gone through this a bunch of times. We're really, really good at this,

03:09and it's been proven for at least four and a half years anyways that people are going to keep

03:16buying homes. Certainly, is it easier when rates are, well, when I say easier, it just,

03:23it's the challenges are different, right? I don't know that any of these markets are ever easy

03:28because like when rates are, I remember earlier in the year, like 5.99, of course, what was fun

03:33about that is, you know, refinances were like, you know, part of the equation again, and a lot of people

03:40were really, really excited just to be under 6% and it creates buying power and affordability.

03:46But it also creates a lot of competition, makes it really, really difficult to buy a house.

03:50Here we are right now, you know, it puts strain on affordability, buying power, budgets, that's real.

03:56But it becomes a whole lot easier to get an offer accepted on purchasing a house at great terms.

04:03So, you know, there's opportunity in every market. You know, what I'm trying to focus on is like,

04:09how can we really show up right now for our clients, for our team members, for our realtor partners,

04:17for everybody and take advantage of what the market's giving us.

04:20It's such a fine line between like showing up for your clients and offering data-driven insights

04:27on like the actual cost of homeownership, which is an equation between the price you buy at

04:34and the price you finance at. And when's the time to wait and when's the time to act?

04:40We've all heard the anecdotes of first-time homebuyers or prospective homebuyers who are

04:46who are waiting for the right time or waiting for interest rates with a six-handle or a five-handle.

04:54The data that I've analyzed has shown that the cost of waiting is pretty high.

05:00But when I talk about walking a fine line, you also don't want to be the housing professional

05:05who's out there rah-rah-ing and saying it's always a good time to buy because you lose credibility.

05:10Yeah, yeah. I mean, it has been proven pretty much over the course of time that if you're going to

05:17buy

05:17and stay in the market for a while, you're going to be okay.

05:20Like I certainly don't have a lot of clients that are unhappy that they bought houses from late 2022

05:26to any time right now. Like even my clients that had rates in the sevens or have rates in the

05:31sevens

05:32or even eight for a little bit, they're not unhappy. Like most of them refinanced

05:37because, you know, every single year there's been volatility just like just was as quickly as rates

05:42were eight percent. They'd come down a few times after that to low sixes and high fives for sometimes

05:47days, weeks, a month, right? So people are able to capitalize on the opportunity to maybe save some

05:53money. But, you know, home prices have continued to go up. I don't know that it's always, I don't know

05:59that it's always the right time to buy like at every minute, but like I do think that there's always

06:03opportunity in every single market. Like, you know, in hindsight, the things that I kick myself

06:10for are the ones that I didn't get. Like, you know, I wish I could travel back in time and

06:16just

06:16like just buy it, you know? So look, you know, I rely on you guys for your data a lot.

06:25It's really

06:25taught me quite a bit. And here's what I'll say. Like, it's an amazing time to be a homebuyer right

06:32now,

06:32truthfully. Like, you know, in terms of getting an offer accepted, homes or sellers are a lot more

06:39willing to negotiate. I had one of the top agents in my market tell me the other day,

06:44hey, we had a million people through the house on the open houses. We got three offers and all

06:50three offers, you know, multiple offer situation, all three were below asking price, right? Like

06:54that doesn't happen very often like that, especially in one of the hottest markets in the country,

06:58right? So houses are sitting on the market longer. Sellers have readjusted their expectations

07:05for the most part in terms of price they're asking for. In a lot of cases, they're resetting

07:11prices, you know, to, you know, change, you know, readjust listing price and willing to negotiate

07:19on things like seller credits, temporary buy-downs, permanent buy-downs, all those things,

07:26which is like, you know, even, even like home sales contingencies, right? And, and longer term

07:30close. So it's been very, very overwhelming for a long time to be a, to be a buyer. So to

07:35have the

07:37market balance out in your favor for a little bit, I think is very welcoming. And, um, you know,

07:42it's just a matter of a stain in the game. You know, if you look, think about like,

07:46it's so funny, like when you say timing the market, like, you know, what are we, like,

07:50are you looking for, like, are you trying to time it to the perfect situation? So you can get this

07:53exact price point for this exact rate with this exact payment. Like in what kind of reality

07:57in any other market is that like, are we living like that kind of life, right? Like I wish I

08:03could

08:03have bought all these socks, you know, uh, years and years ago at the exact perfect time when it

08:07crashed. And, you know, like there's all these things I can use those examples, but, um, the

08:12difference by the way is very little. Like I was calculating out yesterday for a client, like the

08:17difference in terms of lost buying power in terms of adjusted budget. Like if I wanted to buy a house

08:22right now is really, really important to me and my price and my payment went up 250 bucks a month

08:27or 500 bucks a month versus like what it was at the bottom, I would either readjust my price point

08:33or I would readjust other expenses in my life somewhere and eliminate them. Right? Like that's

08:39how I've always, even when I was younger, like if I really, really wanted something, like you got

08:44to give up something, uh, for something else. So that's the people that are going to win in this

08:48market are going to take control of their budget. They're going to take control of understanding the

08:52right products. They're going to take control of like really empowering themselves with information

08:57and using that information to their advantage to act in the market, uh, just like in any other part

09:03of life outside of the housing market. So, uh, you could, you could apply that kind of, uh,

09:07way of thinking to almost any facet of your life. And I think you'd be served pretty well.

09:11All right, Sean, I love that line of thinking. How do you take your experience

09:15and the tactics and the data that you follow and monitor out to the originators that you lead to

09:22help other originators be more effective when, um, advising and working with clients to hopefully

09:30achieve their home ownership goals? Yeah. So, you know, what's funny is, um, we're mostly talking

09:36about like how the numbers have changed and all that kind of stuff, but, um, doing, I've closed 40,000

09:41transactions and almost every single client that I know that's bought a house, whether they're

09:45buying a primary residence for the first time, second time, third time, second home or investment

09:49property is not almost none of them are doing it because of the numbers, right? Like they're not

09:56deciding to transact. So I think what I try to do is just constantly remind everybody like why we're

10:04doing what we're doing and who we're dealing with. We're dealing with humans on the other side

10:07and humans are, um, emotionally driven. Um, they're, uh, you know, they, they need to be coached,

10:16mentored. And I think, how do you do that? Um, how do you advise and guide at the highest level?

10:21Like you have to ultimately understand like, what are their goals? What is their why? Like it's,

10:26it's that simple. Like, I think you have to meet them where they're at initially, right? Figure out

10:31what they're trying to accomplish and how do you draw out the roadmap for them to get there? So where

10:37do

10:37they want to get to it's on us to show them how to get there. So, um, and then it's,

10:42it's a matter

10:43of like treating them. Like, you know, I remember I sat down with my, my, um, my financial advisor

10:49for the first time, you know, I had not knowing anything about like, you know, retirement planning

10:54and all that kind of stuff. First thing they did with me is like, well, what do you, what do

10:57you want

10:57this to look like when you get there? Okay. And then it's like a roadmap of how to get there.

11:02And in my mind, my first thought was like, I don't have disposable funds to save for this. Okay.

11:07Well, let's drop everything that you currently have right now. Uh, what is a necessity and what's

11:13not, how can we eliminate the things that aren't necessities and how can we allocate those funds

11:17towards something that's really, really important. Right. And it's, so it's that line of thinking,

11:21like, um, understanding the total picture. I think, you know, just like in 2020 and 2021,

11:27you know, for a loan originator to be very successful for a mortgage company to be very

11:31successful, you have to be very transactional. It was just about available and get people through

11:35it. Now you have to be more of an advocate, a guide and a mentor because there's a little bit

11:40more uncertainty and less trust in the system. So you have to be the person that really comes in over

11:45the top and act as if you're an advisor. The cool part is, is with everything going on in the

11:50mortgage

11:50business in terms of technology, actually kind of stepping up and helping us eliminate repetitive

11:55tasks and administrative things and all that kind of stuff. It gives us time back to actually do what

12:00we're supposed to be doing. And that's, it's the good, the guiding showing them, you know,

12:05really diving deep into their finances, showing them the optionality of different programs, uh,

12:10comparing it to other things going on there, like other financial things going on in their lives

12:14and really just like laying out options, right? It's not just, it's not as simple as here's your

12:19payment. Here's your pre-approval letter. Call me when you find a house. Here's like, here's

12:23multiple different options for programs, um, in terms of rates. Here's multiple different options

12:28in terms of down payment options. Here's how you can negotiate with the seller. Like you really have

12:33to give them, um, a lot of tools that they can deploy in the market and, um, and help them

12:38win.

12:39Are you, we, we talk about like things changing with consumers. Um, I mean, I know people who can't

12:45pick out their breakfast or pick out a restaurant to go restaurant to go to without asking Claude or chat

12:50GPT anymore. Are you seeing a higher level of, of preparation from consumers before they come in

12:56and speak with you or, or one of your originators? And, uh, and is that preparation productive?

13:02You know what? Uh, yes. You know, I, I can, you know, you can always clearly tell when somebody's

13:08using like chat GPT or some sort of, uh, model as their guide. Right. And so what's cool about it

13:14is

13:14this is, uh, before they were, you know, I think I was able to really separate myself and top loan

13:19originators were able to separate myself by giving clients the information that they needed, whether

13:25they asked for it or not. Right. Um, and that was really like important for clients. Like that's,

13:30that was a big separator for me. Cause I was like, I'm going to give you everything you need to

13:33know

13:33now, even if they don't like now they're, they're coming prepared with a list of questions and follow-up

13:39questions and via email and text. And, um, but if, if what, as an originator, if all you're doing is

13:47just replying to an email and giving them just a basic answer to those things, you're, you're,

13:52you're not doing enough. Like it's still really, really important to, you know, go deeper and

13:57deeper and really answer the questions like, like, uh, like you should be. So yeah, but the amount of

14:02people utilizing, um, those type of like, uh, AI agents to, to really help them kind of, um, be almost

14:09like a backstop is dramatically increasing. It's getting, I mean, I assume almost every single

14:14person is doing it at this point. Yeah. I mean, we talk a lot about how data is an anecdote

14:18to fear

14:19and I operate under the assumption that there's not a first time home buyer or a repeat buyer out

14:24there. Who's not, um, using a publicly available internet source or AI model to figure out, Hey,

14:31what do interest rate look, interest rates look like now, what loan products might be a,

14:35a fit for me. Um, so I operate under the, the, the knowledge that originators have to level up their

14:42game and be able to provide a level of data expertise experience that you're not going to get

14:50through an AI conversation. Um, which like, I mean, you, you brought up the topic of humanity,

14:57like being able to level up and be human and ask questions, um, about like, you know, what are you

15:02actually trying to achieve with homeownership? And usually people are going to answer something

15:05about like bedrooms for our children or a school district or like something, something like,

15:10like that, not a, not a target interest rate. But, um, I think that the conversations are have to be

15:16changing so quickly as like these like pre, um, pre pre-qualification conversations with AI have

15:24like proliferated. Yeah. I mean, the conversations, uh, are changing. What I like is that it really allows

15:31us to, uh, what, what's cool is that like, especially from like a technology standpoint that

15:35we have access to is like, we can get so much of the, the boring stuff, the verifications done,

15:40like with certainty, a lot of times before we even talk to the client for the first time,

15:45if they complete a digital mortgage or something like that, right. Incomes a hundred percent spot on

15:48assets are a hundred percent spot on. So like all that stuff that was a distraction before,

15:52uh, leading up to, um, like the important stuff. And that was like, you know,

15:58a client's only got so much time, right. They've only got so much, um, attention span and say,

16:04so do we, right. Like, it's not like we got, you know, an infinite amount of time to go through

16:08all

16:08this stuff, right. Especially if you're busy. So by eliminating the complete, like almost like

16:15eliminating that whole part from the picture. So you can dive in with certainty from almost like the

16:19initial go into information and data is awesome. But if you skip the whole, Hey, why are you moving

16:28right now? What, why is it important to you? Oh, it turns out, you know, we just got married and

16:32we're pregnant. Right. Or maybe I'm getting a divorce, uh, or I'm relocating for work. Like

16:36that's like, that's the reason the housing market is still humming right along. Like that's the reason

16:41we're still selling 4 million or, you know, houses every year, even in the face of seven and 8%

16:47rates

16:48and all that kind of stuff. Like there's still a lot of transactions going on. That's never going to

16:50change. If anything, it's going to continue to increase. Like I'm really bullish by the way,

16:54um, of like, what's to come in front of us. I just like in, in terms like eventually, you know,

17:00we're going to have four to five years worth of loans to refinance. Uh, it does. It's very,

17:04very clear that new construction activity is like, um, there's a lot of momentum with the new

17:08administration in terms of pushing like new construction and the home building, getting

17:11behind the home builders and activity there. Um, obviously listing inventories increased four

17:16years in a row. You know, there's a lot of positive momentum. And the cool part is if you're

17:21in the mortgage business, there's less competition in my opinion, there's ever been, you know? So

17:25like the people that are, you know, like I look at myself, I've been in this 20 years. There's not

17:30a ton of people coming in behind me and there's, and the people in front of me, they're 10, 15

17:34years

17:34in front of me are kind of getting worn out. And some of them are thinking about getting out.

17:37Right. So like, let's talk about that for a minute. So like, I know this about you, Sean,

17:41you operate with a steady hand, a positive mindset, like you're operating over decades,

17:45not quarters. Like it comes, it comes through. Um, there's other people who wish they were in

17:51that position, but like, we're out there seeing, uh, M and a that, you know, might be under the,

17:56like the guise of a win, but we know it was like kind of a marriage of necessity. Um, we're

18:01seeing

18:01people like struggle to like maintain operations, like, um, uh, you know, lean into technology strategies

18:09that are not prepared to execute on, um, struggle with like recruitment and retention. Like there's,

18:15there's so many challenges out there that like, I, you know, I can honestly say, or life or death

18:21for a lot of, um, uh, IMBs and origination shops. Um, what, what separates you right now? Like what's

18:28the difference in this market? Cause it seems like you're operating from a different place.

18:32Yeah. I mean, I would say like, um, one, I, I truly it's like up here, right? Like the, um,

18:39I get excited when things get really, really hard. Right. I know that like, not everybody's

18:43going to step up during those times so that like, I get myself fired up. Like if we do

18:49individually as an organization, that's when the separation happens, right? That's truly like,

18:54that's like separation season is like, if you really kind of, like, I remember in 2022 and 2023,

18:59when things got really, really hard, like I went all in. Right. And it was like, it wasn't like,

19:04and then the numbers were good compared to everybody else. But like, I knew that if I kept

19:10doing it, the business is going to explode and boom, two years later, billion, billion,

19:14billion every year again, cause of the work I did a couple of years ago. So, you know, uh,

19:19I'm fortunate that I partnered up with a company and leading a company like rate that's done the

19:23work, kept investing in technology, kept recruiting, uh, kept bringing on new product. Uh, so that like,

19:29I haven't been in a position where like, Oh man, like we're really behind. Like,

19:33I don't know what we're going to do because like, we never stopped investing in people,

19:37tech platform, marketing product, all those things. So like, it's certainly, you know,

19:43and even like, you know, we've added over $4 billion in new originators, uh, new production

19:48to our company this year. Guess what that does? That helps when origination slows down,

19:52when rates go up to 7%, we, because we've kept growing, it makes some of the decisions we have to

19:59make easier, right? Because we've invested in technology, our loan officers can increase their

20:03output and spend more of their time relationship building right now, because that's where the

20:08opportunity's at, right? So that stuff's like super, super important right now. And, uh, that's

20:14put us in advantage. So I always want to be on a winning team with a winning mindset, um, especially

20:19in hard times, but it's all up here, right? And it's all up here. If you're doing something about

20:24it, if you're actually implementing and executing while things are hard, like you can be the most

20:28positive and have the right perspective, but if you don't do anything, doesn't matter. Right. But

20:32like, uh, if you, you know, you think about like, you know, the, the, uh, all the work, like think

20:39about the greatest athletes, the Kobe's, the, the Michael Jordan's, the Tom Brady's, all those people,

20:43uh, in those types of organizations, like they're doing the work behind the scenes and nobody's

20:47looking and it pays off when everybody's looking. I think that's what I've always done individually.

20:52And that's the type of company, uh, that Victor's created here. I'm sure there's somebody out

20:57there who thinks you're an overnight success and didn't see the, the, the reps before this

21:02stage of Sean. I'd love to compete with that person and see what they say afterwards.

21:07I mean, so you mentioned bringing on 4 billion in origination volume, like what, what's resonating

21:13in the recruitment process right now? Like we hear a lot of, um, we hear, uh, hear a lot

21:18of different like sides of the, the industry in terms of like, um, uh, channel evolution and,

21:24and channel competition. We're watching some of the, um, the broker shops build up, um, sales forces

21:31that, you know, are, are, you know, you know, we haven't seen in, in the last decade. Um, but,

21:37you know, when I'm, I'm interviewing Mike Cordes at Nexa at our mortgage banking summit,

21:41and that's coming up very soon. Uh, I'm sure he's gonna have a lot to say about that. Like,

21:45what do you, what are you seeing as you go into the recruiting process as people evaluate,

21:48like who is the right fit for them? Um, and when you win that conversation.

21:53Yeah. And by the way, I love what Mike and his, his crew are doing. It's really cool to see

21:56them

21:57kind of really jumping out there and, and growing and taking advantage of the opportunities and

22:01really stepping up. So, um, you know, here's what I'd say, uh, before I get into like all the stuff

22:08we're doing actually for the originators, like what's really resonates with loan originators is like

22:12that growth mindset, right? Like, um, you know, I think too many people talk about features and

22:17benefits all the time of all price and product and all that kind of stuff. And I can get into

22:22that in a second, but like people ultimately want to know how to grow their business, right? Like

22:25how do I go from 20 million to 40 million? What's, what's that roadmap look like? And how do I

22:30actually

22:30use all those features and benefits and when's the right time to lean in on certain parts of it?

22:35How do I increase my marketing and my, my market share and my relationships, like that top of the

22:41funnel activity. And then once I increase that top of the funnel activity, how do I maintain it,

22:46uh, from a service level and execution standpoint so that I don't have a bunch of unhappy clients and,

22:51and, uh, and kind of have a ceiling that I can't break through again. So that like that roadmap to

22:59success to me, that's like the thing that's the most attractive. Like everybody I know that we're

23:05attracting wants to do more without sacrificing their personal life, right? Like they want to do more

23:11business, but they also want to have more time back, right? To deploy it however they want.

23:16So that's number one. Um, what's resonating with us, like what's new and exciting for us at rate.

23:22That's like, really, we're having success. Uh, we've grown our partnership model dramatically.

23:28So of that $4 billion in production, almost, um, over $2 billion and 50% of that is, is coming

23:36from our partnership model, you know, the P and L branches. So we're bringing that through the

23:40affinity that's for the GR affinity business or inside of primary rate, like GR does that as well.

23:46But like, I'm just talking, uh, like rate, the parent company. Right. So like, so, um, rate retail.

23:52So we're, um, that's just like, we're all, you know, those entrepreneur loan officers that have

23:58their own branches that want to not just be a retail loan originator, but also like want to

24:02manage their, their P and L, right. They, they want to manage their expenses. They want to redeploy

24:06the capital. They want to be able to, uh, make all the business decisions no different than like a

24:11broker shop can do it. So, you know, we're attracting a lot of brokers actually that don't want to take,

24:15that don't want to have some of the risk on their end. Um, and don't want to have to do

24:20all of the

24:20administrative tasks and whatnot. Um, and just want to be great at sales. We'll take all that

24:24off their plate, um, and, and plug them into our platform and they can utilize all the things we're

24:30doing from a tech standpoint, from a product standpoint, et cetera. Um, so that growth of

24:36our partnership model, attracting those P and L type branches has been massive and it's something

24:40we hadn't been doing a great, you know, five or six years ago, we've really stepped up in the last

24:45two or three or four years. Uh, and it's, it, this is 2026 has been the most success we've

24:50ever had. The second part is, um, the growth of our, from a product standpoint, our non-QM,

24:56like we call it rate portfolio. Uh, we're going to do over 6 billion, probably six and a half

25:02billion dollars in non-QM businesses here. Right. So it's, that's a massive part. It's

25:06right now, our goal is to get it to be about 20% of our total funded volume. And that's,

25:12it's,

25:12that's been the biggest growth opportunity, uh, that we've had and people are loving it. You know,

25:16everybody can do Fannie Mae loans and Freddie Mac loans and FHA and, and, you know, all the

25:20govy business, but like, um, to be able to offer non-QM at super competitive price is, uh, is not

25:29something everybody's been able to do successfully and underwrite it in house and all that. And, um,

25:33that's been, that's been very, very attractive as well. And then the last part is like art

25:38technology, like what truly, like everybody's talking about AI, but very few companies are

25:43implementing it in every facet of their process. And we've done that successfully. And like,

25:49as, as much as we've done that, as much as we're ahead of the competition, like the stuff that we

25:54have coming out just in the next, like two, three or four months that we're going to roll out

25:58internally is like super impressive. And it's, it's really like, it's an operating system. It's an

26:03efficiency tool and it's a time machine. Like if I can just take, if I can save hours and hours

26:09and

26:09hours for my loan officers and have them redeploy that, that time capital into business building

26:16activities where they can go out and be a rainmaker, build relationships, market themselves,

26:20increase lead conversion, um, and be the CEO of their business, because that's what they're all

26:24too busy. Like they're all just, most loan officers are busy doing stuff that is not their highest and

26:30best use is not revenue generating activity. And then that stuff wears you down. If we can eliminate

26:34that stuff, create systems and processes, uh, that like either eliminate altogether or reduce the

26:40time it takes, give them more certainty, and then have them just kind of go out and be rainmakers.

26:44Cause that's still, you know, that with this AI thing, who's going to disappear, who's going to

26:49become less relevant is that technically proficient loan officer. You know, AI is going to be able to

26:54underwrite process all these things for sure. And even like easy loans will be able to be communicated

27:00to a client in this and some clients are very transactional. They want to commoditize the

27:06process, but, but it's really, really hard to bring business in. You know, that's why these

27:10companies spend millions upon millions. So those loan officers that go out and bring business in,

27:14bring big relationships in consistently, those people will be irreplaceable. And that's what we

27:18want to do is we want to give them the time to go and do that stuff. So does that

27:22change your growth

27:22in recruiting strategy when like maybe the technical proficiency becomes less important over time and

27:29like you're ultimately, I would presume start to value the, the raw sales, velocity, community

27:38involvement, relationships, network, like at, at such a higher level than like the mortgage technical

27:45proficiency that change your desire to recruit experienced loan officers versus new entrance to

27:51the, to the industry? Well, no, cause like the, you know, so the, the ones that have been in the

27:58business for a long time, like fortunately they have a lot of goodwill with their clients, right?

28:01They have huge databases of people. And if we can implement the ways to stay in touch with those

28:07people on their behalf and utilize things like our AI texting, our AI calling on their behalf, the way

28:12we do, we communicate with their clients on their behalf through email and scheduling appointments for

28:18them and all these kinds of things so that they're like, they can maximize that database they

28:24currently have. Like that's invaluable, those relationships, right? So we can, I think we can

28:28give them leverage to be able to maximize these, these assets they've created already. Um, and some

28:34people, um, but, but like, there's a bunch of people that just have, uh, they've only been able to grow

28:40their business just by doing a good job or by having information that information is just getting so

28:45much easier, uh, to get right. And it's, and you don't have to spend, like, I can take a tax

28:50return now

28:50and drop it into, um, one of our projects and it will give me the numbers to the penny in

28:58like

28:58seconds, right? Like you don't need some of these, like, you know, I can calculate, um, a bank statement

29:05asset, uh, loan in like, I can drag and drop everything. It'll tell me my, my calculations.

29:11I can read an appraisal, condo docs, master insurance budget, like in seconds, like those things you still

29:16like really take a lot of time. They were really valued and it's, they're unnecessary, you know,

29:22um, in a lot of cases. Now you talked about the growth in non-QM. Is it that like AI

29:27driven

29:27scenario analysis, which opens up an originator's eyes to some of the product capabilities? Is that,

29:32is that part of the fuel behind the non-QM channel? 100%. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's like,

29:38um, and it's fun, you know, it's like, we're doing like, you know, complex loan scenarios,

29:43uh, at really, really great pricing for people that, you know, deserve, uh, to be able to get

29:49mortgages and get into the housing market. Uh, you know, like, you know, with some of these bank

29:53statement loans, be able to work with entrepreneurs and, and, um, you know, like business owners that

29:57normally would have been boxed out of the market or, or wealthy individuals that, um, don't have

30:02income anymore that can qualify based on assets or, you know, uh, all the DSCR loans for investors and

30:08bridge loans and all these scenarios that we can do that we were like closed out to before.

30:13Um, and we're doing it a huge scale now, you know, so it's, uh, and those loan officers,

30:19you know, can go out and really articulate to partners and financial planners and whatnot as to

30:24like, Hey, we have these products for your clients that there's a need for. Um, and, and they're able to

30:30go out and find new channels of business. Right. And, and, and you, you, um, you just build new

30:35relationships. That's been the funnest part. You know, I totally, I'll admit, you know, I've

30:39done a lot of business for a long time. Like I was late to the party on non QM. I,

30:43I thought it was

30:44like, like, uh, I, in my brain a couple of years ago when it kind of started getting popular again,

30:48I was like, Oh, that seems like a dirty business. Like it's going to be like subprimes coming back

30:53again. Like those, like, I don't know if I want to get involved in that. It's the opposite of that.

30:58I was so wrong. And then once I started doing it, I was like, Oh my God, these are like

31:01amazing

31:02borrowers that, um, you know, like I never was on the portfolio side of lending before

31:06in the 20 years that I'd been in the business. And to be able to offer that now is a

31:11really

31:11empowering and fun. I mean, especially as we've seen like this, this K shaped economy and like

31:17in, in gig work and entrepreneurship has become such more important part of the American homeownership

31:23ecosystem. Like it's my view, it's never been dirty. It's just so necessary to like help like

31:31business owners who might not have W two earnings access, like great credit opportunities. And,

31:37um, uh, yeah, it's just, uh, increasingly important part of our housing economy.

31:42Yeah. Like I said, it's all about perspective. My perspective was off. Like I totally blew it

31:46three or four years ago, but once I, once I figured out, you know, it's become a massive

31:51part of my business. It's almost 20% of my personal business just in three years, once I saw the

31:56opportunity there. Um, and so, um, you know, that's why, you know, as a company, we're all

32:00in our product teams rolling out new product every single day, I feel like, and, uh, they're

32:05hard at work. And so, you know, you have to give loan officers the tools, right? Our, our

32:11job is retaining our existing team members and attracting new team members. And so product

32:15is a tool. Technology is a tool. Um, frankly, like, uh, the P and L model is a tool for

32:20like

32:20entrepreneurial type loan officers. Like they want to be compensated and, and, uh, be able

32:24to redeploy capital in ways that they can reinvest in their business and the growth of their

32:29business. And, um, so we're, we're just obsessed every single day of like, you know, what attracts

32:34people, what are the obstacles and challenges they're facing and how can we be the solution

32:38for them? Well, we got on here today to talk about interest rates and lending in a 7% plus

32:43market. And, um, which seems to be the obsession of, of everybody in this industry right now,

32:47we spent a lot of time being obsessed about things that aren't interest, aren't interest rate

32:52related, which I think is, uh, probably the most important takeaway of this conversation

32:56is, um, we have to understand the rate environment. You understand what's driving rates. You understand

33:02the rhetoric that's coming out of the federal reserve and how spreads are impacting the rate

33:07environment we're in. We could be in an 8% environment. We are not. So like, you know,

33:11as Logan says, like, thank a mortgage spread. Um, but ultimately being obsessed with rates is

33:18not going to be the tool or the best share of our minds, minds, mind share to, to grow businesses.

33:25But yeah. And you know what, here's the thing. Here's what I'd say. Being in this rate environment

33:29in 2026 is a lot easier than it was in 2023. Right. Because now we've got three years of clients

33:35that have rates already in the sixes and sevens that if they need to move, they don't care. Right.

33:40Like, like if somebody is going from 6.75% to 7% because something happened to their livelihood,

33:46like they don't care. They're making that move. If they're relocating for work, upsizing, downsizing,

33:51getting divorced, you know, like, you know how many people haven't been able to get divorced

33:55because of their 2% mortgage rate? Like, it's like crazy. Like, um, so, so that's, that's better.

34:02We have so much more product than we had three years ago, like infinitely more product with,

34:06like I said, with the non-QM and all these other type things we're doing. So, uh, and there's more

34:11business happening, frankly, uh, than there was a couple of years ago anyways, like in terms of

34:15inventory increasing and whatnot. So we're in a much better shape than we are. The key for loan

34:19officers is to not be worn down, right? Uh, get out there, speak to people, coach them, guide them,

34:27uh, be an advocate, really explain things like that's the, that's going to be the key. The people that

34:31are going to win are going to spend the most amount of time educating their partners, uh, whether

34:36they'd be financial planners or, um, or real estate agents educating their, the, their audience,

34:43right. And creating massive influence. So if you're a marketer and a brander first, uh, you will have

34:48success because you're, because of the way you're communicating and that's going to spill over to

34:52every single interaction, whether it's an event, whether it's a one-on-one meeting, uh, whether it's

34:56a consult, uh, communication is going to be the, the, um, the way to win right now, just like being

35:03great at the transaction was in, in 2021. Love it. It's the whole focus we have here at

35:09housing wire with housing, our intelligence, trying to take insight to action. We don't

35:12want to show you the data. We want to show you how to act on it and advise clients and

35:16make decisions in your business. It's going to be the main theme at the mortgage banking

35:20summit coming up on October 1st insight to action. We are not here to be frozen. We are

35:25not here to be scared. We're here to make forward movement. And, um, I'm going to steal that line.

35:30You had shot the separation season. I love it. Cool. Well, uh, thank you. This is awesome.

35:35You know, I've learned a lot from, uh, from you guys, you know, all that stuff, you guys

35:38cut the content you provide, like that's really helped me in my business. And I just like take

35:43that digest it and then articulate it to people. So thank you for the way you guys have done this

35:47and stepped up as leaders, uh, in the hospital. Appreciate that. Appreciate you. Appreciate you too, man.

Shant Banosian’s separation season: How top LOs win at 7%

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