Shant Banosian’s separation season: How top LOs win at 7%

Name: Shant Banosian’s separation season: How top LOs win at 7%
Uploaded: 2026-09-22T08:00:51+00:00
Duration: 35 min 56 s
Channel: HousingWire

00:00Hey everyone, I am Clayton Collins, the CEO at Housing Wire, and I am back on the microphone

00:04hosting today's episode of Powerhouse. Today, I have the opportunity to speak with my friend,

00:10Sean Benossi, and the president of RATE. And the theme of the episode is separation season.

00:16We're operating in an environment right now where mortgage rates have surpassed 7%. Again,

00:21we could react with fear. We could freeze up. We could stand on the sidelines,

00:25but we're not. We're activating and executing on the business strategies, the mindset,

00:31the loan products, the knowledge, and the expertise to define separation season. This

00:37is the time when we grow businesses. This is a time when we gain market share. And this is the

00:42time we provide the most value to homebuyers and sellers who may otherwise be filled with fear,

00:49be afraid to act, or make the wrong decision. In this conversation with Sean, we're going to talk

00:53about data. We're going to talk about rates. We're going to talk about spreads, but we're going to

00:57spend a lot more time speaking about mindset, technology, and mortgage operations execution.

01:05Enjoy this conversation, and I will see you soon at the Housing Wire Mortgage Banking Summit.

01:18All right, Sean, I'm looking at my Housing Wire Intelligence app right now, and I see the 30-year

01:22rate at 7.28, a little bit higher than we forecasted as we came into 2026. Would you agree?

01:31Oh, yeah. I remember the beginning of 2026, and it was full of hope and optimism and excitement that

01:38we were on the other side of this three- to four-year slog that we had started, and we're

01:44still

01:44in the slog, right? We went from three projected rate cuts coming into the year to, here we go,

01:52rate cut number one of probably, in my opinion, two, three, or four rate hikes coming up.

01:58Yeah, flip that. Yeah, the first rate hike. Yeah, and typically, these things do move in cycles,

02:04like, and so we have to anticipate a little bit more, but there's a lot the market's already priced

02:09in. But before we go into shaking our crystal balls here, the market's high, but we've been

02:16operating inside of this rate band, like you said, for the better part of the last three years. It's

02:22something Logan talks a lot about. For the last 36 months, we've been in this channel between,

02:28at the low point, we didn't see like a day at 5.99 on the average. Ultimately, we've been in

02:34a channel

02:34at six and a quarter to seven and a half, seven and a quarter for the last three years, which

02:40to me

02:40is like a good reminder to look at the data, because we, you talk about mortgage rates in this

02:44cycle, the word volatility comes to mind. We've actually been pretty stable, just unfortunately

02:49not in the same stable channel we'd like to be in. Yeah, you know, it's a good reminder, because

02:55I think a lot of times we convince ourselves that this is going to be harder when we, you know,

02:59when I'm, when I'm talking to myself, when I'm talking to my team members, when I'm talking to

03:04the company, you know, we've gone through this a bunch of times, we're really, really good at this.

03:08And it's been proven for at least four and a half years, anyways, that people are going to keep buying

03:15homes. Certainly, is it easier when rates are, well, when I say easier, it just, it's the challenges

03:23are different, right? I don't know that any of these markets are ever easy, because like when rates are,

03:27I remember earlier in the year, like 599. Of course, what was fun about that is, you know,

03:34refinances were like, you know, part of the equation again. And a lot of people were really,

03:39really excited just to be under 6%. And it creates buying power and affordability. But it also creates

03:46a lot of competition, makes it really, really difficult to buy a house. Here we are right now,

03:50you know, it puts strain on affordability, buying power, budgets, that's real. But it becomes a whole lot

03:56easier to get an offer accepted on purchasing a house at great terms. So, you know, there's opportunity

04:04in every market. You know, what I'm trying to focus on is like, how can we really show up

04:11right now for our clients, for our team members, for our realtor partners, for everybody and take

04:17advantage of what the market's giving us.

04:18It's such a fine line between like showing up for your clients and offering data driven insights

04:25on like the actual cost of homeownership, which is an equation between the price you buy at and the

04:33price you finance at. And when's the time to wait and when's the time to act? We've all heard the

04:39anecdotes of first time homebuyers or prospective homebuyers who are waiting for the right time or

04:46waiting for interest rates with a six handle or a five handle. The data that I've analyzed has shown

04:55that the cost of waiting is pretty high. But when I talk about walking a fine line,

05:02you also don't want to be the housing professional who's out there rah-rah-ing and saying it's always

05:06a good time to buy because you lose credibility.

05:09Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, it has been proven pretty much over the course of time that if

05:15you're going to buy and stay in the market for a while, you're going to be OK. Like I certainly

05:19don't have a lot of clients that are unhappy that they bought houses from 2020, late 2022 to

05:25any time right now. Like even my clients that had rates in the sevens or have rates in the sevens

05:30or

05:30even eight for a little bit, they they're not unhappy. Like they've most of them refinanced

05:36because, you know, every single year there's been volatility just like just was as quickly as rates

05:41or eight percent. They'd come down a few times after that. So low sixes and high fives for

05:45sometimes days, weeks, a month. Right. So people are able to capitalize on the opportunity to maybe

05:51save some money. But, you know, home prices have continued to go up. I don't know that it's always

05:56I don't know that it's always the right time to buy like at every minute. But I do think that

06:01there's always opportunity in every single market. Like, you know, in hindsight,

06:06the things that I kick myself for the ones I the ones that I didn't get, like, I, you know,

06:13I wish I could travel back in time and just like just buy it, you know. So look, you know,

06:21I rely

06:22on you guys for your data a lot. It's really taught me quite a bit. And here's what I'll say.

06:27Like,

06:28it's an amazing time to be a homebuyer right now. Truthfully, like, you know, in terms of

06:34getting an offer accepted, homes or sellers are a lot more willing to negotiate. I had

06:39one of the top agents in my market tell me the other day, hey, we had a million people through

06:44the house on the open houses. We got three offers and all three offers, you know, multiple offer

06:49situation, all three were below asking price. Right. Like that doesn't happen very often like

06:54that, especially in one of the hottest markets in the country. Right. So

07:00houses are sitting on the market longer. Sellers have readjusted their expectations for the most part

07:04in terms of price they're asking for. In a lot of cases, they're resetting prices, you know, to,

07:11you know, change, you know, readjust listing price and willing to negotiate on things like

07:18seller credits, temporary buy downs, permanent buy downs, all those things, which is like,

07:25you know, even like home sales contingencies. Right. And longer term close. So it's been very,

07:29very overwhelming for a long time to be a buyer. So to have the market balance out in your favor

07:36for

07:36a little bit, I think is very welcoming. And, you know, it's just a matter of staying in the game.

07:41You know, if you look, think about like, it's so funny, like when you say timing the market, like,

07:47you know, what are we like, are you looking for, are you trying to time it to the perfect situation

07:51so you can get this exact price point for this exact rate with this exact payment? Like in what kind

07:55of reality in any other market is that like, are we living like that kind of life, right? Like I

08:01wish I could have bought all these socks, you know, uh, years and years ago at the exact perfect time

08:05when it crashed, you know, like there's all these things I can use those examples. But, um, the

08:10difference by the way is very little. Like I was calculating out yesterday for a client, like the

08:15difference in terms of lost buying power in terms of adjusted budget. Like if I wanted to buy a house

08:20right now is really, really important to me and my price and my payment went up 250 bucks a month

08:26or

08:26500 bucks a month versus like what it was at the bottom, I would either readjust my price point

08:31or I would readjust other expenses in my life somewhere and eliminate them. Right? Like that's

08:38how I've always, even when I was younger, like if I really, really wanted something, like you got to

08:42give up something, uh, for something else. So that's the people that are going to win in this market

08:47are going to take control of their budget. They're going to take control of understanding

08:51the right products. They're going to take control of like really empowering themselves with

08:55information and using that information to their advantage to act in the market. Uh, just like in

09:00any other part of life outside of the housing market. So, uh, you could, you could apply that

09:04kind of, uh, way of thinking to almost any facet of your life. And I think you'd be served pretty

09:09well.

09:09All right, Sean, I love that line of thinking. How do you take your experience and the tactics

09:15and the data that you follow and monitor out to the originators that you lead to help

09:21other originators be more effective when, um, advising and working with clients to hopefully

09:28achieve their home ownership goals? Yeah. So, you know, it's funny is, um, we're mostly talking

09:34about like how the numbers have changed and all that kind of stuff, but, um, doing, I've closed 40,000

09:40transactions and almost every single client that I know that's bought a house, whether they're buying a

09:44primary residence to the first time, second time, third time, second home or investment property

09:48is not almost none of them are doing it because of the numbers, right? Like they're not deciding

09:55to transact. So I think what I try to do is just constantly remind everybody like why we're doing

10:02what we're doing and who we're dealing with. We're dealing with humans on the other side and humans

10:06are, um, emotionally driven. Um, they're, uh, you know, they, they need to be coached, mentored.

10:15And I think, how do you do that? Um, how do you advise and guide at the highest level? Like

10:20you have

10:20to ultimately understand, like, what are their goals? What is their why? Like it's, it's that simple.

10:25Like, I think you have to meet them where they're at initially, right? Figure out what they're trying

10:30to accomplish and how do you draw out the roadmap for them to get there? So where do they want

10:35to get to?

10:37It's on us to show them how to get there. So, um, and then it's, it's a matter of like

10:42treating them. Like, you know, I remember I sat down with my, my, um, my financial advisor for

10:47the first time, you know, I had not knowing anything about like, you know, retirement planning

10:52and all that kind of stuff. First thing they did with me is like, well, what do you, what do

10:55you want

10:56this to look like when you get there? Okay. And then it's like a roadmap of how to get there.

11:00And in my

11:01mind, my first thought was like, I don't have disposable funds to save for this. Okay. Well,

11:05let's drop everything that you currently have right now. Uh, what is a necessity and what's

11:11not, how can we eliminate the things that aren't necessities and how can we allocate those funds

11:15towards something that's really, really important. Right. And it's, so it's that line of thinking,

11:19like, um, understanding the total picture. I think, you know, just like in 2020 and 2021,

11:26you know, for a loan originator to be very successful for a mortgage company to be very

11:30successful, you have to be very transactional. It was just about available and get people through

11:34it. Now you have to be more of an advocate, a guide and a mentor because there's a little bit

11:38more uncertainty and less trust in the system. So you have to be the person that really comes in over

11:43the top and act as if you're an advisor. The cool part is, is with everything going on in the

11:48mortgage business in terms of technology, actually kind of stepping up and helping us

11:52eliminate repetitive tasks and administrative things and all that kind of stuff. It gives us

11:57time back to actually do what we're supposed to be doing. And that's, it's the good, the guiding

12:01showing them, you know, really diving deep into their finances, showing them the optionality of

12:06different programs, uh, comparing to other things going on there, like other financial things going

12:12on in their lives and really just like laying out options, right? It's not just, it's not as

12:16just as simple as here's your payment, here's your pre-approval letter, call me when you find a house.

12:20Here's like, here's multiple different options for programs, um, in terms of rates, here's multiple

12:26different options in terms of down payment options. Here's how you can negotiate with the

12:30seller. Like you really have to give them, um, a lot of tools that they can deploy in the market

12:35and, um,

12:36um, and help them win. Are you, we, we talk about like things changing with consumers. Um, I mean,

12:43I know people who can't pick out their breakfast or pick out a restaurant to go restaurant to go to

12:47without asking Claude or chat GPT anymore. Are you seeing a higher level of, of preparation from

12:53consumers before they come in and speak with you or, or one of your originators and, uh, and is that

12:59preparation productive? You know what? Uh, yes. You know, I can, you know, you can always clearly tell

13:05when somebody is using like chat GPT or some sort of, uh, model as their guide. Right. And so what's

13:11cool about it is this is, uh, before they were, you know, I think I was able to really separate

13:17myself and top loan originators were able to separate myself by giving clients the information

13:21that they needed, whether they asked for it or not. Right. Um, and that was really like important

13:27for clients. Like that's, that was a big separator for me. Cause I was like, I'm going to give you

13:30everything you need to know now, even if they don't like now they're, they're coming prepared

13:35with a list of questions and follow-up questions and via email and text. And, um, but if, if what

13:44as an originator, if all you're doing is just replying to an email and giving them just a basic

13:49answer to those things, you're, you're, you're not doing enough. Like it's still really, really

13:53important to, you know, go deeper and deeper and really answer the questions like, like, uh, like you

13:58should be. So yeah, but the amount of people utilizing, um, those type of like, uh, AI agents

14:05to, to really help them kind of, um, be almost like a backstop is dramatically increased and it's

14:10getting, I mean, I assume almost every single person is doing it at this point. Yeah. I mean,

14:15we talk a lot about how data is an anecdote to fear and I operate under the assumption that there's

14:19not a first time home buyer or a repeat buyer out there. Who's not, um, using a publicly available

14:26internet source or AI model to, uh, figure out, Hey, what do interest rate look interest rates

14:30look like now? What loan products might be a, a fit for me? Um, so I operate under the, the,

14:38the knowledge that originators have to level up their game and be able to provide a level of

14:45data expertise experience that you're not going to get through an AI conversation. Um, which like,

14:53I mean, you, you brought up the topic of humanity, like being able to level up and be human and

14:57ask

14:58questions, um, about like, you know, what are you actually trying to achieve with homeownership?

15:02And usually people are going to answer something about like bedrooms for our children or a school

15:06district or like something, something like, like that, not a, not a target interest rate. But, um,

15:12I think that the conversations are, have to be changing so quickly as like these like pre,

15:18um, pre pre-qualification conversations with AI have like proliferated.

15:24Yeah. I mean, the conversations, uh, are changing. What I like is that it, it really allows us to,

15:30uh, what, what's cool is that like, especially from like a technology standpoint that we have access to

15:34is like, we can get so much of the, the boring stuff, the verifications done, like with certainty,

15:40a lot of times before we even talk to the client for the first time, if they complete a digital

15:44mortgage or something like that. Right. Incomes a hundred percent spot on assets or a hundred

15:47percent spot on. So like all that stuff that was a distraction before, uh, leading up to,

15:52um, like the important stuff. And that was like, you know, a client's only got so much time,

15:58right. They've only got so much, um, attention span and say, so do we, right? Like, it's not like we

16:04got, you know, an infinite amount of time to go through all this stuff, right? Especially if you're

16:07busy. So by eliminating the complete, like almost like eliminating that whole part from the picture.

16:15So you can dive in with certainty from almost like the initial go into information and data

16:22is awesome. But if you skip the whole, Hey, why are you moving right now? What, why is it important

16:28to

16:28you? Oh, it turns out, you know, we just got married and we're pregnant. Right. Or maybe I'm getting a

16:32divorce, uh, or I'm relocating for work. Like that's like, that's the reason the housing market

16:37is still humming right along. Like that's the reason we're still selling 4 million or,

16:41you know, houses every year, even in the face of seven and 8% rates and all that kind of

16:46stuff.

16:47Like there's still a lot of transactions going on. That's never going to change. If anything,

16:49it's going to continue to increase. Like I'm really bullish by the way, um, of like,

16:54what's to come in front of us. I just like in, in terms like eventually, you know, we're going to

16:58have

16:58four to five years worth of loans to refinance. Uh, it does. It's very, very clear that new

17:03construction activity is like, um, there's a lot of momentum with the new administration

17:07in terms of pushing like new construction and the home building, getting behind the home builders

17:10and activity there. Um, obviously listing inventories increased four years in a row.

17:15You know, there's a lot of positive momentum. And the cool part is if you're in the mortgage business,

17:20there's less competition in my opinion than there's ever been, you know? So like the people that are,

17:25you know, like I look at myself, I've been in this 20 years,

17:27there's not a ton of people coming in behind me and there's, and the people in front of me,

17:32they're 10, 15 years in front of me are kind of getting worn out. And some of them are thinking

17:35about getting out. Right. So like, let's talk about that for a minute. So like, I know this

17:38about you, Sean, you operate with a steady hand, a positive mindset, like you're operating over

17:43decades, not quarters. Like it comes, it comes through. Um, there's other people who wish they were

17:49in that position, but like, we're out there seeing, uh, M and a that, you know, might be under the,

17:54like the guise of a win, but we know it was like kind of a, a marriage of necessity. Um,

17:59we're seeing people like struggle to like maintain operations, like, um, uh, you know,

18:05lean into technology strategies that are not prepared to execute on, um, have struggle with

18:11like recruitment and retention. Like there's, there's so many challenges out there that like, I,

18:16you know, I can honestly say, or life or death for a lot of, um, uh, IMBs and origination shops.

18:24Um, what, what separates you right now? Like what, what's the difference in this market?

18:28Cause it seems like you're operating from a different place.

18:31Yeah. I mean, I would say like, um, one, I truly, it's like up here, right? Like the, um,

18:37I get excited when things get really, really hard. Right. It, I know that like, not everybody's

18:42going to step up during those times so that like, I get myself fired up. Like if we do individually

18:47as an organization, that's when the separation happens, right? That's truly like, that's like

18:53separation season. It's like, if you really kind of like, I remember in 2022 and 2023, when things

18:58got really, really hard, like I went all in. Right. And it was like, it wasn't like, and then the

19:03numbers were good compared to everybody else. But like, I knew that if I kept doing it, the business

19:09is going to explode and boom, two years later, billion, billion, billion every year again,

19:14because of the work I did a couple of years ago. So, you know, uh, I'm fortunate that I partnered

19:19up with a company and leading a company like rate that's done the work, kept investing in technology,

19:23kept recruiting, uh, kept bringing on new product. Uh, so that like, I haven't been in a position where

19:29like, oh man, like we're really behind, like, I don't know what we're going to do because like,

19:33we never stopped investing in people, tech platform, marketing product, all those things.

19:39So like, it's like, you know, and even like, you know, we've added over $4 billion in new

19:44originators, uh, new production to our company this year. Guess what that does? That helps when

19:49origination slows down, when rates go up to 7%, we, because we've kept growing, it makes some of the

19:56decisions we have to make easier, right? Because we've invested in technology, our loan officers can

20:01increase their output and spend more of their time relationship building right now, because that's

20:06where the opportunity's at, right? So that stuff's like super, super important right now.

20:11And, uh, that's put us in advantage. So I always want to be on a winning team

20:14with a winning mindset, um, especially in hard times, but it's all up here.

20:19Right. And it's all up here. If you're doing something about it, if you're actually implementing

20:24and executing while things are hard, like you can be the most positive and have the right

20:27perspective, but if you don't do anything, it doesn't matter. Right. But like, uh, if you,

20:31you know, you think about like, you know, the, the, uh, all the work, like think about the

20:37greatest athletes, the Kobe's, the, the Michael Jordan's, the Tom Brady's, all those people,

20:41uh, in those types of organizations, like they're doing the work behind the scenes and nobody's

20:45looking and it pays off when everybody's looking. I think that's what I've always done individually.

20:50And that's the type of company, uh, that Victor's created here. Right.

20:54I, I, I'm sure there's somebody out there who thinks you're an overnight success and didn't

20:57see the, the, the reps before this stage of Sean. I'd love to compete with that person

21:02and see what they say afterwards. I mean, so you, you mentioned bringing on 4 billion

21:09in origination volume, like what, what's resonating in the recruitment process right now? Like we hear

21:14a lot of, um, we hear, uh, hear a lot of different like sides of the, the industry in terms

21:19of like, um,

21:21uh, channel evolution and, and channel competition. We're, we're watching some of the, um,

21:26the broker shops build up, um, sales forces that, you know, are, are, you know,

21:32we haven't seen in, in the last decade. Um, but you know, when I'm, I'm interviewing Mike Cordes

21:37at Nexa at our mortgage banking summit, and that's coming up very soon. Uh, I'm sure he's gonna have

21:42a lot to say about that. Like, what do you, what are you seeing as you go into the recruiting

21:45process

21:45as people evaluate, like who is the right fit for them? Um, and when you win that conversation?

21:51Yeah. And by the way, I love what Mike and his, his crew are doing. It's really cool to see

21:55them

21:55kind of, uh, really jumping out there and, and growing and taking advantage of the opportunities

21:59and really stepping up. So, um, you know, here's what I'd say, uh, before I get into

22:05like all the stuff we're doing actually for the originators, like what's really resonates with

22:09loan originators is like that growth mindset, right? Like, um, you know, I think too many people

22:14talk about features and benefits all the time of all price and product and all that kind of stuff.

22:19And I can get into that in a second, but like people ultimately want to know how to grow their

22:23business, right? Like how do I go from 20 million to 40 million? What's, what's that roadmap look

22:28like? And how do I actually use all those features and benefits? And when's the right time to lean

22:32in on certain parts of it? How do I increase my marketing and my, my market share and my relationships,

22:38like my, that top of the funnel activity. And then once I increase that top of the funnel activity,

22:42how do I maintain it, uh, from a service level and execution standpoints that I don't have a bunch

22:49of unhappy clients and, and the, and kind of have a ceiling that I can't break through again.

22:54So that grew like that roadmap to success to me, that's like the thing that's the most attractive.

23:00Like everybody I know that we're attracting wants to do more without sacrificing their personal life,

23:08right? Like they want to do more business, but they also want to have more time back,

23:12right. To, to deploy it however they want. So that's number one. Um, what's resonating with us,

23:18like what's new and exciting for us at rate. That's like, really we're having success.

23:23Uh, we've grown our partnership model dramatically. So of that $4 billion in production,

23:29almost, um, over $2 billion and 50% of that is, is coming from our partnership model, you know,

23:36the P and L branches. So we're bringing that through the affinity that's for the GR affinity business

23:40or inside of primary affinity, like GR affinity does that as well. But like, I'm just talking,

23:45uh, like rate, the parent company. Right. So like, so, um, rate retail. So we're, um,

23:53that just like, we're all, you know, those entrepreneur loan officers that have their own

23:56branches that want to not just be a retail loan originator, but also like want to manage

24:01their, their P and L, right. They, they want to manage their expenses. They want to redeploy the capital.

24:05They want to be able to, uh, make all the business decisions, no different than like

24:09a broker shop can do it. So, you know, we're attracting a lot of brokers actually that don't

24:13want to take, uh, that don't want to have some of the risk on their end. Um, and don't want

24:17to have

24:18to do all of the administrative tasks and whatnot. Um, and just want to be great at sales. We'll take

24:23all that off their plate, um, and, and plug them into our platform and they can utilize all the things

24:28we're doing from a tech standpoint, from a product standpoint, et cetera. Um, so that growth of our

24:34partnership model, attracting those P and L type branches has been massive and it's something we

24:39hadn't been doing a great, you know, five or six years ago, we've really stepped up in the last two

24:44or three or four years. Uh, and it's, it, this is 2026 has been the most success we've ever had.

24:49The second part is, um, the growth of our, from a product standpoint, our non-QM, like we call it

24:55rate portfolio. Uh, we're going to do over 6 billion, probably six and a half billion dollars

25:01in non-QM businesses here. Right. So it's, that's a massive part. Right now our goal is to get it

25:07to

25:07be about 20% of our total funded volume. And that's, it's, that's been the biggest growth

25:12opportunity, uh, that we've had and people are loving it. You know, everybody can do Fannie Mae

25:16loans and Freddie Mac loans and FHA and, and you know, all the govy business, but like, um, to be

25:22able

25:22to offer a non-QM at super competitive price is, uh, is not something everybody's been able to do

25:28successfully and underwrite it in house and all that. And, um, that's been, that's been very,

25:33very attractive as well. And then the last part is like art technology, like what truly,

25:37like everybody's talking about AI, but very few companies are implementing it in every facet

25:43of their process. And we've done that successfully. And like, as, as much as we've done that,

25:49as much as we're ahead of the competition, like the stuff that we have coming out just in the next,

25:54like two, three or four months that we're going to roll out internally is like super impressive.

25:58And it's, it's really like, it's an operating system. It's an efficiency tool and it's a time

26:03machine. Like if I can just take, if I can save hours and hours and hours for my loan officers

26:10and

26:10have them redeploy that, that time capital into business building activities where they can go out

26:16and be a rainmaker, build relationships, market themselves, increase lead conversion, um, and be

26:21the CEO of their business, because that's what they're all too busy. Like they're all, they're just,

26:24most loan officers are busy doing stuff that is not their highest and best use is not revenue

26:29generating activity. And then that stuff wears you down. If we can eliminate that stuff, create

26:33systems and processes, uh, that like either eliminate altogether or reduce the time it takes,

26:39give them more certainty and then have them just kind of go out and be rainmakers. Cause that's still,

26:43you know, that with this AI thing, who's going to disappear, who's going to become less relevant

26:48is that technically proficient loan officer. You know, AI is going to be able to underwrite,

26:53process all these things for sure. And even like easy loans will be able to be communicated

26:59to a client and this, and some clients are very transactional that they want to commoditize the

27:04process, but, but it's really, really hard to bring business in. You know, that's why these

27:08companies spend millions upon millions. So those loan officers that go out and bring business in,

27:12bring big relationships in consistently, those people will be irreplaceable. And that's what we want to

27:17do is we want to give them the time to go and do that stuff. So does that change your

27:20growth in

27:21recruiting strategy when like maybe the technical proficiency becomes less important over time and

27:27like you're ultimately, I would presume start to value the, the raw sales velocity, community

27:36involvement, relationships, network, like at, at such a higher level than like the mortgage technical

27:43proficiency. Does that change your desire to recruit experienced loan officers versus new entrants to

27:49the, to the industry? Well, no, cause like the, you know, so the, the ones that have been in the

27:56business for a long time, like fortunately they have a lot of goodwill with their clients, right?

27:59They have huge databases of people. And if we can implement, um, the ways to stay in touch with

28:05those people on their behalf and, you know, utilize things like our AI texting, our AI calling on their

28:10behalf, the way we do, we communicate with their clients on their behalf through email and scheduling

28:15appointments for them and all these kinds of things so that they're like, they can maximize

28:21that database they currently have. Like that's invaluable, those relationships, right? So we're,

28:25we can, I think we can give them leverage to be able to maximize these, these assets they've created

28:31already. Um, and some people, um, but, but like there's a bunch of people that just have, uh,

28:37they've only been able to grow their business just by doing a good job or by having information,

28:41that information is just getting so much easier, uh, to get right. And it's, and you don't have to

28:47spend, like, I can take a tax return now and drop it into, um, one of our projects and it

28:53will give me

28:53the numbers to the penny in like seconds, right? Like you don't need some of these, like, you know,

29:00I can calculate, um, a bank statement asset, uh, loan in like, I can drag and drop everything.

29:08It'll tell me my, my calculations. I can read an appraisal condo docs, master insurance budget,

29:12like in seconds, like those things you still like really take a lot of time. They were really valued

29:17and it's, they're unnecessary, you know, um, in a lot of cases.

29:21Now you talked about the growth in non-QM. Is it that like AI driven scenario analysis,

29:26which opens up an originator's eyes to some of the product capabilities? Is that,

29:30is that part of the fuel behind the non-QM channel?

29:33One hundred percent. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's like, um, and it's fun, you know,

29:38it's like, we're doing like, you know, complex loan scenarios, uh, at really, really great pricing

29:44for people that, you know, deserve, uh, to be able to get mortgages and get into the housing market.

29:49Uh, you know, like, you know, with some of these bank statement loans, be able to work with

29:52entrepreneurs and, and, um, you know, like business owners that normally would

29:56have been boxed out of the market or, or wealthy individuals that, um, don't have income anymore

30:01that can qualify based on assets or, you know, uh, all the DSCR loans for investors and bridge loans

30:07and all these scenarios that we can do that we were like closed out to before. Um, and we're doing

30:13it a huge scale now, you know, so it's, uh, and, and those loan officers, you know, can go out

30:19and

30:19really articulate to partners and financial planners and whatnot as to like, Hey, we have these products

30:24for your clients that there's a need for. Um, and, and they're able to go out and find new channels

30:30of business. Right. And, and, and you, you, uh, you just build new relationships. That's been the

30:34funnest part. You know, I totally, I'll admit, you know, I've done a lot of business for a long time.

30:38Like I was late to the party on non-QM. I, I thought it was like, like, uh, I, in

30:44my brain

30:44a couple of years ago when it kind of started getting popular again, I was like, Oh, that seems like

30:48a dirty business. Like it's going to be like subprimes coming back again. Like those,

30:52like, I don't know if I want to get involved in that. It's the opposite of that. I was so

30:57wrong.

30:57And then once I started doing it, I was like, Oh my God, these are like amazing borrowers that,

31:01um, you know, like I never was on the portfolio side of lending before in the 20 years that I'd

31:06been in the business. And to be able to offer that now is a really empowering and fun.

31:11I mean, especially as we've seen like this, this K shaped economy and like in, in gig work and

31:17entrepreneurship has become such more important part of the American homeownership ecosystem.

31:23Like it's my view, it's never been dirty. It's just so necessary to like help like business owners

31:30who might not have W two earnings access, like great credit opportunities. And, um, uh, yeah,

31:37just, uh, increasingly important part of our housing economy. Yeah. Like I said,

31:41it's all about perspective. My perspective was off. Like I totally blew it three or four years ago.

31:45But once I, once I figured it out, you know, it's become a massive part of my business. It's almost

31:5120% of my personal business just in three years, once I saw the opportunity there. Um, and so, um,

31:57you know, that's why, you know, as a company, we're all in our product teams rolling out new product

32:00every single day, I feel like, and, uh, they're hard at work. And so, you know, you have to give

32:06loan officers the tools, right? Our job is retaining our existing team members and attracting new team

32:12members. And so product is a tool. Technology is a tool. Um, frankly, like, uh, the P and L model

32:18is

32:18a tool for like entrepreneurial type loan officers. Like they want to be compensated and, and, uh, be

32:22able to redeploy capital in ways that they can reinvest in their business and the growth of their

32:27business. And, um, so we're, we're just obsessed every single day of like, you know, what attracts

32:32people, what are the obstacles and challenges they're facing and how can we be the solution for them?

32:36Well, we got on here today to talk about interest rates and lending in a 7% plus market. And,

32:42um,

32:42which seems to be the obsession of, of everybody in this industry right now, we spent a lot of time

32:47being obsessed about things that aren't interest, aren't interest rate related, which I think is,

32:52uh, probably the most important takeaway of this conversation is, um, we have to understand the

32:57rate environment to understand what's driving rates to understand the rhetoric that's coming out of

33:01the federal reserve and how spreads are impacting the rate environment that we're in. We could be

33:07in an 8% environment. We are not. So like, you know, as Logan says, like thank a mortgage spread.

33:12Um, but ultimately being obsessed with rates is not going to be the tool or the best share of our

33:19minds, minds, mind share to, to grow businesses. But yeah. And you know what, here's the thing.

33:25Here's what I'd say. Being in this rate environment in 2026 is a lot easier than it was in 2023.

33:31Right. Because now we've got three years of clients that have rates already in the sixes and

33:35sevens that if they need to move, they don't care. Right. Like, like if somebody is going from

33:406.75% to 7% because something happened to their livelihood, like they don't care.

33:46They're making that move. If they're relocating for work, upsizing, downsizing, getting divorced,

33:51you know, like, you know how many people haven't been able to get divorced because of their 2%

33:54mortgage rate. Like, it's like crazy. Like, um, so, so that's, that's better. We have so much more

34:01product than we had three years ago, like infinitely more product with, like I said,

34:05with the non-QM and all these other type things that we're doing. So, uh, and there's more business

34:10happening, frankly, uh, than there was a couple of years ago anyways, like in terms of inventory

34:14increasing and whatnot. So we're in a much better shape than we are. The key for loan officers is to

34:19not be worn down. Right. Uh, get out there, speak to people, coach them, guide them, uh, be an advocate,

34:26really explain things like that's the, that's going to be the key. The people that are going to win

34:30are going to spend the most amount of time educating their partners, uh, whether they be

34:35financial planners or, um, or real estate agents, educating their, the, their audience, right. And

34:41creating massive influence. So if you're a marketer and a brander first, uh, you will have success

34:47because you're, because of the way you're communicating and that's going to spill over to every

34:51single interaction, whether it's an event, whether it's a one-on-one meeting, uh, whether it's a consult,

34:55uh, communication is going to be the, the, um, the way to win right now, just like being great

35:02at the transaction was in, in 2021. Love it. And it's the whole focus we have here at housing

35:07wire with housing, our intelligence, trying to take insight to action. We don't want to show you

35:11the data. We want to show you how to act on it and advise clients and make decisions in your

35:15business.

35:16It's going to be the main theme at the mortgage banking summit coming up on October 1st insight to

35:20action. We are not here to be frozen. We are not here to be scared. We're here to make

35:25forward movement. And, um, I'm going to steal that line. You had shot the separation season.

35:30I love it. Cool. Well, uh, thank you. This is awesome. You know, I've learned a lot from, uh,

35:35from you guys, you know, all that stuff, you guys, the content you provide, like that's really helped

35:39me in my business. And it just like take that digested and then articulate it to people. So

35:44thank you for the way you guys have done this and stepped up as leaders, uh, in the,

35:47appreciate that. Appreciate you. Appreciate you too, man.

Shant Banosian’s separation season: How top LOs win at 7%

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