- hace 18 minutos
En entrevista con El Espectador, la fiscal Luz Adriana Camargo aseguró que hay pruebas de que el jefe de las disidencias de las Farc, alias "Calarcá", cometió graves delitos mientras fue negociador de paz en el gobierno Petro. Además, dio detalles del proceso contra Nicolás Petro y del caso de Zulma Guzmán.
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00:13What happens if the secretary of the San José Foundation accepted responsibility?
00:30Who paid for that? How was it paid for? Is there a fake degree industry there? What can you tell us?
00:38about it?
00:39Indeed, I believe that the pre-agreed sentences probably suffer from a lack of context regarding what happened, which should be explained to him.
00:48to victims and to society.
00:51That acceptance of responsibility is based on legally relevant facts, and that is something we have been working on with
00:59the prosecutors to include it in the agreements,
01:01so that the judges, in turn, also have that context and can include it in their rulings, which would be
01:08It is also very healthy for public opinion,
01:14for society, so that it can read a ruling that does not only talk about an agreement and some basic facts
01:19that are accepted,
01:21but that it goes beyond that, including things like what you said in the case of Juliana Guerrero.
01:25However, in that particular case there is one thing to say, and that is that the topic is not exhausted.
01:32in these two people who accept responsibility
01:35and that they are condemned very quickly; in fact, this was mentioned in an editorial in El Espectador.
01:42Regarding which I would like to mention something, and that is that the speed of this case has to do with the
01:50use of those early sentencing mechanisms.
01:56And incidentally, it's worth mentioning because what makes the discount happen in terms of
02:03of criminal procedure law?
02:05Let the State save itself the time of the trial. These days, a trial can take between three and five years.
02:11years.
02:12That is the time it takes us to be able to determine in the first instance whether a person is responsible or
02:18No.
02:19There are many cases where it is worthwhile, where one should definitely not forgo ordinary legal proceedings and should seek
02:26that sentence,
02:27cases where we are dealing with very serious crimes, where a negotiation would not make sense
02:34or where we have promoted some negotiations to obtain the identification of top officials
02:42And that's what we took to those ordinary trials.
02:45So my question is about the Juliana Guerrero issue.
02:47It's great that there's already a conviction for an absolutely reprehensible act.
02:52No, I'm talking about her, of course.
02:54And of course, the gentleman from the San José Foundation.
02:59But I repeat the question, we are left without knowing what happened.
03:03In that context, do you think the prosecution, let's say, gave more than it should have in that case?
03:09No not at all.
03:10But if they haven't told us the truth, don't you think there's a valid social demand there?
03:17You press the answer.
03:19Indeed, the case does not end there.
03:22The thing is, there is indeed a line of research that has to do with what happens in the
03:28San José Foundation,
03:30which doesn't really explain Juliana's case on its own, which is what she
03:36Acceptance is the pinnacle of the diploma.
03:38And what the secretary admits is that he did indeed falsify that diploma, and that he handed it over.
03:47Are we missing something here?
03:48No, we lack the full context, because this doesn't only happen in Juliana's case.
03:53And we are looking at that context in another investigation, where we arrive at conclusions at this time.
04:02When we have them, the public will surely know about them, when we can move towards legal action.
04:08and we are not affecting anyone's right to the presumption of innocence.
04:13And there was another very high-profile case, which was the removal, so to speak, of Prosecutor Laborde, in the case of
04:21Nicholas...
04:21Nicolás Petro.
04:25Her thesis is that it was to favor the investigation, to favor him.
04:30What do you think?
04:32It was the interview he recently gave...
04:35The story quickly, the story quickly.
04:38The case of Nicolás Petro, well, let me tell you again, we received him with a trial already underway,
04:47because he had already been accused.
04:48The prosecutor in charge of that case, who was Dr.
04:54Mario Burgos.
04:55Mario Burgos, indeed, Dr. Mario Burgos,
05:00It was in disciplinary matters, through the judicial disciplinary chamber,
05:06It was that he was formally charged for irregularities within that process.
05:17Therefore, that situation meant that he was prevented from continuing to investigate the case.
05:25Because I want to say that when I arrive at the prosecutor's office,
05:28Dr. Burgos continues to handle the case of Nicolás Petro.
05:32There is no change of prosecutor.
05:34When this situation arises, which is a legal situation,
05:37The case is assigned and it falls to Dr. Luz.
05:40and is distributed among money laundering,
05:43because the crime that had been charged was money laundering.
05:46It's divided up in money laundering cases, and it falls to Dr. Luz and the border woman.
05:50by assignment, a doctor whom I don't know.
05:53The issue is that she was removed from her position to favor Nicolás Petro.
06:00That is Maria Jose's question,
06:03That's what she says, what do I think about it?
06:05That's crazy,
06:08In other words, that's not sensible.
06:09That's not sensible because Mrs. Luz and the border
06:12She did not participate in the merit-based competition to become a specialized prosecutor,
06:18And of course someone else came along and took the position.
06:22So, what you're telling us is that the lady is leaving the process
06:26because there was a prosecutor who took his place and because he earned it fair and square.
06:31Yes, she won it in a contest, and she didn't participate in the contest.
06:35But I have the information...
06:37Furthermore, she did not participate in the contest; she has pension requirements.
06:40I think that's the reason.
06:40But I have information that the prosecutor who arrived is provisional.
06:43No, no, no, but that's another issue, the issue of the square.
06:46The Plaza de Luz and the border, that plaza is a money laundering plaza
06:51which was located in Bogotá and is located in Bogotá.
06:56She is being sent to Barranquilla for a reason
07:00And she had to attend to Nicolás Petro's trial.
07:03So she had per diem allowances for three weeks out of four a month.
07:09Then it is said, no, well this lady, please, let her go to Barranquilla
07:13and attend the trial.
07:14In addition, he is handling the entire case of Nicolás, who has other matters involved.
07:19not just the trial.
07:21And he starts to handle them and he starts to manage it.
07:23When the position is put out to tender, it is put out to tender in Bogotá
07:28And those positions that are put up for competition are awarded in a public hearing
07:32and the person who gets that spot earns the right
07:36by order to have his position in Bogotá, not in Barranquilla.
07:42So when that is noticed, because that is noticed later
07:45The money laundering investigation is when a provisional prosecutor is appointed.
07:51Let him go and continue handling the audience issue.
07:56It's a fiscal mess, it's an administrative mess
08:00It's an administrative mess.
08:01That his detractors see it as a form of favoritism
08:04to the son of former president Petro.
08:06But also...
08:07Well...
08:07Yes, yes, definitely.
08:09And then the thing is, there's nothing different there.
08:16Nothing irregular, you say.
08:18There's nothing different about following an order...
08:20Nothing different from the contest.
08:22Exact.
08:23But let's talk about that, prosecutor.
08:25Don't you think that your excessive rigorism
08:32for fulfilling what...
08:36This is the topic of the competition to fill some vacancies
08:40It has caused trauma to the prosecution,
08:43to sensitive processes, to non-sensitive processes.
08:45There are four thousand, there are four thousand, four thousand.
08:48Excuse me, and do you think that an entity
08:50with twenty-four thousand employees
08:52which barely reaches four thousand in competition
08:55It can stop the way we should provide the positions
09:01because there may be trauma...
09:03Is there no way to do it more gradually, I ask him.
09:05No, it's not that gradual
09:08that by making a call for four thousand positions
09:12We didn't even reach 50% of the available places.
09:17provided by competition.
09:18Two thousand.
09:19The prosecutor's office has four thousand, which is what we took out.
09:22The prosecutor's office has had this since 2008.
09:26If my memory serves me right,
09:27the order, the peremptory order of the Council of State
09:31to bring forward the competition.
09:33And I want to clarify one thing,
09:34And that's because we, we,
09:37My administration, basically the trials
09:42What he has today are trials
09:45which began in the previous administration,
09:48that can be won or lost,
09:50and it will depend on the evidence there.
09:55But the trials and the sentences
09:57They are self-explanatory.
09:59And all this scenario of speculation,
10:04I wonder how one person is given preferential treatment
10:07in a trial they are holding.
10:09But I do want to ask you a question,
10:11because we understand that you are a person
10:15that complies with the rules and tries to make the processes
10:17as the law states,
10:19without skipping,
10:22almost without imposing their own rules.
10:25That's very clear.
10:26But in that position and with that philosophy,
10:30the attacks on the prosecution and on you as a person
10:33They are practically daily.
10:36Do you think it has fallen a little behind?
10:39in the background on that grand stage?
10:44No, that's a bet.
10:46That's a gamble, and that gamble was made from day one.
10:49that I took possession.
10:51I said it clearly,
10:52My prosecutor's office will have more prosecutors and fewer prosecutors.
10:55I don't think it did the prosecution any good.
10:58the excessive prominence of the prosecutors.
11:00I am convinced that we have a job to do.
11:03very serious,
11:05with a lot of responsibility,
11:06that cannot be done based on egos and self-importance
11:10and that it also harms ongoing processes.
11:14The processes are supported by the evidence.
11:17and they are supported by legal theories
11:19in which we need to be experts.
11:22and the prosecutors are nothing more than litigators.
11:27Once we impute,
11:30we become litigants
11:31And the litigants have to work,
11:34We are the litigants of the State
11:36And we are the largest litigation team in the country.
11:38And we have to be capable,
11:41the prosecutors,
11:42those who are leading the investigations,
11:44capable of doing that exercise
11:46without anyone interfering.
11:53We have said, for example,
11:55one thing that has completely changed
11:57the profile of our research,
11:59we have said,
12:00We need to work on criminal phenomena
12:05and not about the specific case.
12:07And that is evident today in the work of the Prosecutor's Office.
12:10In what cases, for example?
12:11Oh, in almost all of them.
12:13For example,
12:16Sierra Nevada Mixed Fund Corporation,
12:18Arenca,
12:19those two cases that are corruption,
12:20which are understood as very important cases.
12:25These are cases where we are not working.
12:27a contract that a governor made
12:30Let's see if there was an irregularity.
12:31Yes, the mayor of Aguas de Bricos.
12:32No, we are working
12:35several departments
12:36where there was a model
12:37of almost of co-opting the State
12:40and where public resources were committed
12:42for three trillion pesos.
12:45Correct.
12:45And that's essentially a mixed bag.
12:49That's essentially a mixed bag.
12:50In Arenca, the same thing.
12:52And of that type of research,
12:54We have several that follow.
12:57And that we've been working on.
12:58So, when you tell me
12:59And why haven't they released
13:00What is the other line of investigation?
13:01Governors, for example.
13:03The governors there.
13:04We're working on them.
13:05And precisely because we
13:07We need to work in stages.
13:09We handle the entire part
13:11to understand how that phenomenon works,
13:13what did we get out of, for example,
13:16from Arenca to mixed fund.
13:17And now we move up to a second level
13:19who are protected officials, who are the governors.
13:22But let's just say that's a very elaborate job.
13:24Zulma's indictment.
13:25Are they going to file charges?
13:28The Río Cuarto, yes.
13:29With or without Zulma?
13:31Yes, yes.
13:31No, I did tell you.
13:32We are going to file the charges.
13:34We're going to ask for authorization.
13:35so that she resorts to the virtual one.
13:37If she doesn't come,
13:39We're going to make the request
13:42declaration of absent persons
13:44in order to continue moving forward.
13:45The point is that we
13:46We have agreed to all the requirements
13:48for the purpose of not harming the extradition.
13:51to not harm extradition
13:53and the last thing that was done
13:55It was a report
13:57that they asked
13:58of an organism
14:01official
14:02that it be neutral
14:04and that I can speak
14:05of the guarantees of independence
14:06of our judicial system
14:08and of
14:10the possibilities
14:12that she has
14:12a suitable confinement.
14:14and the Attorney General's Office
14:16of the Nation
14:17that concept paid off.
14:18That just happened,
14:19That happened last week.
14:20and that concept
14:22it was being sent
14:24this week
14:24to the United Kingdom.
14:25We believe
14:26that with that
14:26We've run out of applications
14:28in what has to do
14:29with the evidence
14:31that needs
14:32the United Kingdom
14:32to decide
14:33yes or no
14:34to extradition
14:34and we don't want to continue
14:35stopping the case
14:36because it's a case
14:37that we have also worked on
14:38with great effort
14:40and that we have
14:41very well handled
14:42and that doesn't make much sense
14:44to have him detained.
14:45What crimes
14:46No photo?
14:47I'm not sure.
14:49would rather
14:52not to incur
14:53in errors.
14:55Fiscal,
14:55one last question
14:56from Mr. Calarca.
14:58It's delicious.
15:00Please,
15:01please,
15:02because there was at that time
15:04much criticism
15:04around
15:05of what happened
15:07of the suspension
15:08and from the checkpoint
15:10then
15:11by the frame
15:12of the process
15:13peace
15:13then you
15:15same
15:15the prosecution
15:17I mean
15:17document
15:18that within the framework
15:19of those negotiations
15:20well these gentlemen
15:21social leaders were murdered
15:22They continued trafficking
15:26What can you tell us?
15:27of the judicial
15:28in particular
15:30of the Calarca case
15:30And what a reflection!
15:32has around
15:34of total peace
15:35and those processes
15:36in which of course
15:37the prosecution
15:38because it granted
15:39certain
15:39certain things
15:40around
15:41to this idea
15:42of a negotiation
15:45with those organizations
15:46and that ended
15:47which it ended up being
15:48above all
15:49in the case of Calarca?
15:51I think that
15:52the reflection
15:53the thing is
15:55total peace
15:57He had many problems.
15:58many problems
15:59in my opinion
16:00of organization
16:02do
16:03an exercise
16:05peace
16:05regional tables
16:06required
16:07a job
16:10planning
16:10and logistics
16:11very big
16:12that I believe
16:13that
16:14that left
16:15diluting
16:16no
16:16that did not exist
16:17who did not accompany
16:18that process
16:19but also
16:20about that
16:21required
16:21a commitment
16:22Serious
16:23of whom
16:23They were sitting
16:24on the table
16:25negotiation
16:25and exactly
16:26That's what
16:27It didn't happen
16:28and what we
16:29we were able to verify
16:30that did not happen
16:31that I don't know
16:32if you remember
16:33For example
16:33that in the case
16:34from Calarca
16:34or in the case
16:35of Front 33
16:36the prosecution
16:37he stayed
16:37with a request
16:38made to the president
16:39of the republic
16:40where we
16:40we called him
16:41please
16:42these people
16:43are involved
16:44in the committee
16:45of crimes
16:45being negotiators
16:47It doesn't make sense.
16:49that they
16:50that have failed to comply
16:52his word
16:52be at those tables
16:53negotiation
16:54raise their status
16:56to lift them up
16:57the orders
16:57capture
16:58And that question
16:59he stayed
17:00unanswered
17:01in the particular case
17:02Me too, besides
17:03I want to remember
17:04that we
17:04We do not collaborate
17:06with total peace
17:07we apply
17:08the law
17:08Law 2272
17:10of 2022
17:11which is the framework
17:12legal
17:12that regulated
17:13that process
17:13peace
17:14I put it on
17:15a responsibility
17:16to the judicial branch
17:17to suspend
17:18the orders
17:19capture
17:19of people
17:20that the government
17:21national
17:22would determine
17:23as negotiators
17:24That's the scenario.
17:25in which we
17:26we suspend
17:27those orders
17:28capture
17:29It's not about helping out
17:30with no one
17:30we basically
17:31We do an exercise
17:33collaboration
17:33harmonica
17:34with powers
17:35when it comes
17:36to coordinate
17:37shares
17:37but in general
17:38What we do
17:39is to fulfill
17:40constitutional mandates
17:41by function
17:42that imposes on us
17:43the constitution
17:44and the law
17:44then no
17:45These are not collaborations
17:46on the topic
17:47from Calarca
17:48particularly
17:49us
17:50having been able to
17:51note
17:52what is
17:53that he
17:53as boss
17:55from one of these
17:56dissidences
17:56he kept committing
17:58crimes
17:59in fact
18:02we had to
18:03we had to
18:03admit
18:05that some part
18:06of them
18:06we hadn't
18:07warned
18:08on some devices
18:09that had
18:10picked up there
18:11in that scenario
18:12from that checkpoint
18:13and that
18:15that call
18:17attention
18:17that makes us
18:18the press
18:19And what does it tell us?
18:19you don't
18:20they haven't looked
18:21that information
18:22it allows us
18:23to begin
18:24review that information
18:25because the prosecutor
18:26she was focused
18:27as always happens to us
18:28on other topics
18:29which was
18:29about the helicopter
18:31the attack
18:32in the helicopter
18:33to the police
18:34the topic
18:35of some deaths
18:36that we had
18:36very serious
18:37there
18:37in it
18:39lower Cauca
18:40Antioquian
18:41attributable
18:41to this group
18:42me too
18:43I want you to
18:44understand
18:44which is the work
18:45from the prosecutor's office
18:45It's a job
18:46extremely difficult
18:47It's not that I
18:48want to leave
18:48abandoned
18:49a line
18:49research
18:50It's that many times
18:51I don't see it
18:51I can't see it
18:54because I am
18:55working
18:56another 5 or 6
18:57we are overwhelmed
18:58we are totally
18:59overwhelmed
18:59and I finish
19:01Calarca
19:01and I tell him
19:02How are we?
19:02overwhelmed
19:02and with that
19:03We're closed
19:03the topic
19:06with Calarca
19:06that's right
19:07we started
19:08to review
19:09those devices
19:10and we found
19:10that he
19:11being a negotiator
19:12has ordered homicides
19:13has recruited children
19:14has committed
19:15a series of crimes
19:16crimes against humanity
19:17very serious
19:18then for those crimes
19:19for those crimes
19:21we continue
19:22according to our criteria
19:23we don't need
19:24to have private people
19:25of freedom
19:26to proceed legally
19:27we managed to get this gentleman
19:29declare
19:30person absent
19:31we do a
19:32a first charge
19:34We have two indictments
19:35against him
19:35for crimes committed
19:37at this time
19:38in which he was a negotiator
19:39one for crimes committed
19:41at the time
19:41in which he was a negotiator
19:43and another for crimes committed
19:44before
19:45and we have
19:46a plan
19:47that we are developing
19:49that I hope
19:50to be able to comment
19:52in short
19:53which is a plan
19:54very interesting
19:55to move forward
19:57advance quickly
19:59in that work
20:00of judicialization
20:01of these characters
20:02that we
20:03we know
20:04as those ultimately responsible
20:05but that actually
20:06they are barely
20:07top officials
20:10military
20:11because these structures
20:13They have a component
20:14of illegal economy
20:16that normally
20:17we're left out
20:18And that's the real one.
20:20commitment of this prosecutor's office
20:21working in the economies
20:23illegal
20:23these top officials
20:25are the ones we see
20:26but behind them
20:27There are men in the back
20:29who do not show their face
20:31But they are the ones who have
20:33the real business
20:34in the enclaves
20:35illegal gold mines
20:36in the coca growers
20:38in human trafficking
20:40which has become a business
20:42appallingly lucrative
20:43or in extortion
20:46that we have also made progress
20:48a lot
20:48since we started working
20:50not on a case-by-case basis
20:51but we are working
20:52also by structures
20:54Are we overwhelmed?
20:55Of course we are overwhelmed
20:57the prosecution is absolutely
20:58small
21:00for the challenge
21:00that he has to face
21:01And that's why
21:02And this is one thing
21:05very interesting
21:05We present to you
21:07has led us
21:10It took us
21:11two years
21:12to understand
21:12how it should be
21:13the strengthening process
21:15from the prosecutor's office
21:16And now we have it ready.
21:17We have it designed
21:19and we introduced it to him
21:20to the new government
21:21and we're on the same wavelength
21:22with the new government
21:23so that
21:24that strengthening
21:25that needs
21:26not only
21:27the prosecution
21:28but also
21:29criminal jurisdiction
21:30ordinary
21:31it happens
21:31I wish
21:32that the budget issue
21:34don't overwhelm us
21:35and do not prevent it
21:36But that's
21:37That's it.
21:38a purpose
21:39that we have
21:40clearly
21:41for the years to come
21:43very good
21:44Thank you, prosecutor.
21:45thank you so much
21:46thank you
21:46to you