- 14 minutes ago
AIMIM chief Asaduddin Owaisi accused both the BJP and Congress of failing to ensure meaningful political representation for Muslims, alleging that successive governments have treated the community largely as a vote bank rather than an equal political stakeholder. Speaking at the India Today Conclave South in Kochi, he said parties claiming to be secular had also failed to show the “intellectual honesty” needed to politically empower minorities. Owaisi said Muslims constitute around 18 crore of India’s population but account for only 4 per cent of elected members in Parliament. He questioned why other communities had been able to build political leadership and agency while Muslims remained largely confined to the role of voters. “Where is my political voice? Where is my political agency?” he asked, arguing that political marginalisation had persisted from the era of Jawaharlal Nehru to the present government. Targeting both sides of the political spectrum, Owaisi said the BJP did not give Muslims enough electoral representation, while parties that call themselves secular had reduced the community to “voters and showboys”. He said Muslims had often voted for the “lesser of two evils” because there was no viable alternative, and argued that political justice was essential for achieving social and economic justice.
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00:00Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like you to warmly welcome the President of the AIMIM, Mr. Asaduddin Ovesi, Member of Parliament.
00:09We see him very often make some of the fiercest speeches when it comes down to constitutional morality, equality, social
00:17justice in Parliament.
00:18He also has a record, I would reckon, of being the best attendance where Parliament is concerned.
00:26One of the best, Chalo. He's magnanimous there. One of the best.
00:30We have him today at a time where there's so much happening in Indian politics.
00:36As we speak, there will be an all-party meeting tomorrow, but we're going to come down to that.
00:42The CWC of the Congress at the back of what has been a damning news report where the Election Commission
00:48of India is concerned.
00:49All those questions, but let's come to the moot point. Minority matters.
00:53In a country, Ovesi Saab, like India, where you have, what, 14.2% Muslim population, 19.8% if
01:01you count all minorities.
01:03Minorities, of course, matter.
01:04But is India doing enough to safeguard the interest of our minorities, socially, politically?
01:11Are we equitable as per you?
01:15No.
01:17Are you asking me, has India done enough or the parties which have governed India done enough?
01:22Whichever way you'd want to.
01:24No, no, no, no, it's very important because if, in my opinion, in my opinion, our founding fathers have given
01:33us a constitution wherein our constitution talks about that this country will not have a religion.
01:41It will celebrate all the religion, and people who don't believe any God will also be respected.
01:47Our founding fathers, including Babasa Ambedkar, had given us fundamental rights, right to equality, Article 25, 26, 29, and 30.
01:57Now, parties that have governed India have completely marginalized the minorities, especially the Muslim community.
02:05They have made them politically disempowered, they have not allowed their growth in education, and they have been denied the
02:16political justice.
02:17That does it in short.
02:20So you're saying India has stood by its minorities, but the successive governments, be it whichever side of the political
02:25divide, haven't done justice to the minorities of this country.
02:28Exactly. Our, our, we cannot question the country because, you know, my grandfather made a choice, which was the right
02:38choice, that we'll stay back in India.
02:40We didn't believe in this two-nation theory.
02:44We believed in the constitution, we believed in all the guarantees, the fundamental rights, and all the promises that we
02:50made.
02:50So it is the subsequent political parties, starting from Mr. Nehru up to Mr. Modi, you know, there's an empirical
02:58data of how Muslims have been made a mere voter and not being treated or given the equal status as
03:06a citizen with rights.
03:07And that is why we see various data, various studies which show that Muslims are at the lowest ebb of
03:15everything.
03:16But obviously, you know, we're going to come down to, you know, the politics of it and how equitable have
03:22the politics been in this country.
03:24But you speak of data suggests, but data then also suggests that Muslims in this country continue to pick and
03:29vote for the Congress over even when you are in the same playing field.
03:33Though you choose or you say that you represent their interests far better than a party which you think has
03:39only exploited them.
03:40So I don't agree with that.
03:42I am of the opinion that the Muslims have always voted for the lesser of two evils.
03:48A Muslim has always voted because they didn't have any alternate viable choice.
03:55And that is why they voted for whatever that was worth.
03:59In my opinion, it has not been worth it.
04:01So if you see the political representation of Muslims in the Lok Sabha is four percent.
04:11And we have BJP, which has decided not to give any Muslim tickets.
04:17And one in Kerala, Malapuram.
04:19Okay, say one, but they lost a deposit over there, I think so.
04:24And you have other political parties who want Muslims to be treated only as voters and who give a message
04:30to Muslims that BJP wants to marginalize you or exterminate you.
04:36You be grateful that we are keeping you alive.
04:38So what is the choice left for Muslims now?
04:43And I mean, this is a very big, important question.
04:46What is the choice left for Muslims?
04:47Other ones to marginalize you.
04:50The BJP, RSS ideology, we know.
04:53They believe in a Hindu rashter.
04:55And you have other so-called political alternative, which only treats Muslims as voters.
05:01So where do we fit in into this whole political spectrum?
05:05That is why when I talk about without political justice, you cannot get economic and social justice.
05:12That is very important.
05:13You speak, Mr. Rovesi, of the RSS.
05:17And I'll just go back to the last statement that has come in from Mr. Mohan Bhagwat.
05:23He was in New York.
05:24And he says that for any Hindu who thinks that Muslims should not live or be present in India,
05:30then you're not a Hindu.
05:32Do you, how do you read that comment?
05:34These are all, Mr. Mohan Bhagwat had given a talk in United States of America.
05:42You must remember that the U.S. State Department, Department of Freedom and Religion,
05:48had given a very, very strong adverse report about RSS.
05:53So Mr. Mohan Bhagwat was there to send them a very positive message.
05:58And can one forget what was written by Mr. Golwalkar in We Our Nation Who Defined in Bunch of Thoughts?
06:08Can he deny what Deen Jalupadeh said in his theory of integral humanism?
06:13For example, if few Hindus get together, how do they think?
06:17And if few Muslims get together, how do they think?
06:20There are various speeches.
06:21You see, RSS is an ideological party.
06:25This is just to divert or to put a wool over our eyes.
06:33And that is why Mohan Bhagwat has been saying this for a long time.
06:36But what is happening on the ground is completely opposite to what he has said.
06:41Because he agrees, unless and until the RSS supports what is happening on the ground.
06:48So if they decide it has to stop, it will stop in a few days, a few months.
06:53But it has to continue to keep this boogie of Muslims being an internal threat.
06:59That was written by Golwalkar in his book, A Bunch of Thoughts.
07:04Okay, so you disregard that statement.
07:07You speak of the Congress.
07:08We are sitting in Kerala, Ovesi Sahab.
07:10And you've also never decided or thought that or deemed fit that your party should fight elections in Kerala,
07:19considering that there is a sizable minority representation.
07:23Yes.
07:23And you've always chosen not to do so.
07:25First, why?
07:26Because I feel the Indian Muslim has been doing a fantastic work over here.
07:33And we should, I think, if there's a need, I'll strengthen the IUML.
07:38Why should I come and disturb them?
07:40Because they are doing a very good job for many years.
07:43The Tangal family has done fantastic work over here.
07:47They have made a lot of sacrifices for the upliftment of community.
07:51And I feel that it should continue.
07:53Then why is it, Ovesi Sahab, that a party like the Congress, you've spoken about the BJP,
07:59but a party like the Congress, which you say has only exploited the Muslim community,
08:04calls itself a secular party, has no qualms aligning with an IUML
08:10and being in alliance with the IUML in Kerala, but will always, always, never, ever ally with the AIMIM,
08:20despite you offering an alliance multiple times.
08:23They don't trust you.
08:25They feel you're the team B of the BJP.
08:28It's an old cliche term.
08:29But I'm trying to, you know, give you examples on why the Congress distrusts of you.
08:34Because they say you're a secular party.
08:36If they align with you, then they feel that they could project an anti-Hindu image.
08:41Why is that?
08:42Why is that quandary there?
08:43Well, this, you know, blaming me for your losses is very easy.
08:52You know, 2014, Modi became the prime minister.
08:56How many loks of our seats have I contested?
09:002019, he won more than 300 seats.
09:03You still want to blame me?
09:052024, yes, the numbers came down, but they still won.
09:09The issue is that one should not compare what is happening in Kerala with what is happening in other places
09:19of India.
09:19Because traditionally, IUML has been with Congress Party.
09:24They stood even with them, even when the demolition of Babur Masjid took place.
09:29Question that needs to be asked is, why can't the Congress tolerate the political leadership which IUML has or created
09:37for the Muslims over here?
09:39In other parts of India?
09:42What is stopping them?
09:44They don't want it.
09:46And please don't forget that even the riots which took place when Mr. Nehru was the prime minister and GB
09:53Pan was the chief minister,
09:55the fatalities were high on the Muslim side.
09:58You don't want to have an alliance with me?
10:00Fine.
10:01Heavens are not going to fall on me.
10:03You know, the skies are not going to fall.
10:04But I will definitely strive for Muslim political justice.
10:10And I will continue to fight the elections.
10:13So this whole argument of boogie-o, if I fight, you're helping BJP.
10:19So, okay, come, let's have an alliance.
10:21You don't want to have an alliance.
10:23But I am good for you when the 2008 nuclear deal was there.
10:29I was very good for you.
10:31You know, at that time.
10:33And then recently in our state, there was a by-election in Jubilee Hill.
10:38I was very sweet for you.
10:43And then I was very good for you when you took my support in the Rajasova elections of Bihar,
10:49where an RJD candidate was a sitting MP and the Congress had six MLAs, four didn't turn up.
10:56One Muslim MLA of RJD didn't turn up.
10:58Our MLAs turned up and voted for them.
11:02So, this is it.
11:04But the issue is that you don't want to tolerate any political Muslim independent political agency.
11:11You just don't want it.
11:12You have other side.
11:13BJP doesn't even want to talk about the word Muslims.
11:18And here you have all secular parties who treat us as mere otters, as showboys.
11:24You know, we are only important at the time of Iftar Party.
11:28We are only important at the time of some Dargah Oras.
11:31We should be seen there offering some flowers.
11:36You know, I fast for 14 hours.
11:38And when a Congress Hindu leader comes, I should open his mouth and put that date in his mouth, then
11:44open my fast.
11:45That cannot be the case.
11:47You see, it should, when you believe in equality, you should show it.
11:52But anyway, let us see what happens.
11:54We are still ready for an alliance, despite the India alliance taking four MLAs of ours in Bihar.
12:01That was not, that was Gandhian politics.
12:04But if Shifthena was broken, it was not Gandhian politics.
12:09So, that is the reality over here.
12:13You talk about alliances.
12:14And, you know, for those of our viewers, our audience, I'll make it clear, there's less than six months, there's
12:22an election in Uttar Pradesh.
12:24And OVC Saab's party has fought in Uttar Pradesh, but strangely, it hasn't given his party as much luck as,
12:31say, Bihar has.
12:33And this time around, he has made it very clear to both the Samajwadi party and the Congress that I
12:39am open, like he did in Bihar as well, that you are open for an alliance.
12:44Don't cry later if votes are cut.
12:46Yet, nobody has responded to you, sir.
12:49Neither Samajwadi party nor Akhilesh ji.
12:53See, we have given them this opportunity.
12:56They don't want it.
12:58That is their choice.
13:00The Constitution gives me the right to contest election, I'll contest the election.
13:04You didn't want an alliance with me in Bihar, despite me writing a letter to the Congress party, RJD, CPI,
13:11ML, CPI.
13:12Give us six seats.
13:14You didn't give us six seats.
13:16We won back those four MLAs which you took away from us.
13:19And we won five seats.
13:22And in one seat, we lost by 350 votes, other by 9,000 votes.
13:27Other, in every other assembly segment which we contested, the minimum vote which we got in Bihar was 13,000,
13:3414,000 votes.
13:36Of course, we want, we don't want the BJP to win again third time in Uttar Pradesh because Hindutva is
13:42a bigger challenge to us.
13:43And we want to stop them.
13:45Now, if you believe in that, okay.
13:49Show your magnanimity, at least.
13:52Or show your intellectual honesty in stopping Hindutva.
13:57So, you've offered an alliance.
13:59Till now, nobody seems interested.
14:01No, no, see, I cannot force anyone, you see.
14:03No, you've offered.
14:04See, in love and in election alliance, you cannot have a forced, you know, alliance.
14:11So, I want to ask you, Ovisi.
14:13And it cannot be one side also.
14:15Fair point.
14:16But there has been a two-side alliance in UP before where you tried very, you know, I think it
14:22was a politically smart move.
14:24The Dalits and the Muslims come together.
14:26The AIMIM fought that election with BSP.
14:29This time, you know.
14:30We didn't, we didn't.
14:31But there was an informal kind of grouping together.
14:33We had an alliance with Mr. Babu Singh Kushwaha and other smaller parties, which we didn't win any seat.
14:42You did, but there was an understanding.
14:43But now, Mr. Babu Singh Kushwaha is a Samajwadi member of parliament from Jonapur.
14:48But he still retains his party also at the same time.
14:51But there was an understanding that you were open to go with the BSP at one point of time.
14:56No, see, that alliance didn't happen.
14:59But why, so this time around, have you accepted that Mayawati ji or BSP's politics is pretty much ended in
15:06UP, at least in this election?
15:08No, no, I have not said that.
15:09It's still an open game?
15:10No, we want to have an alliance so that BJP does not form the government third time over there.
15:17So BSP is an option?
15:18So only time will tell we will have an alliance with whom, we don't know.
15:22Okay, so first option is Samajwadi party and the Congress.
15:26You've already said it.
15:27No, no, it's not a question of option.
15:28If it happens, we'll let you know.
15:30If it doesn't happen, fine, we'll contest the elections.
15:33And BSP is still open as an option?
15:35Why?
15:36I don't know why you're only talking about one political party.
15:39There are many political parties out there.
15:42It's one of the many political parties where options are still open.
15:45They're a very important political party, yes.
15:47All right.
15:47You talk about why is it that the Congress is not, you know, comfortable or the Samajwadi party as well
15:54not comfortable with you in Uttar Pradesh.
15:57Because OVC sahab, I'll ask you a question.
15:59Do you consider AIMIM as a secular party?
16:02Well, if I was not secular, my party will not have been registered in the Election Commission of India.
16:07That is the law.
16:09You consider the BJP a secular party then?
16:12No.
16:12By the same virtue, I can give you the same argument?
16:14Because actions and their statements speak louder than that.
16:20And your actions and your statements, sir?
16:22I'll prove you why I'm saying that.
16:24BJP does not believe in the secularism which has been enshrined as part of a basic structure of our Constitution.
16:32BJP, the present prime minister made a famous statement that you identify people with the clothes which they are wearing.
16:39The BJP has passed laws which are religious-centric, which the Constitution does not allow.
16:46The BJP has not stopped mob lynching.
16:48The BJP has not stopped the demolition of masjids which has taken place.
16:52And I feel that more than about 1,000 masjids have been demolished so far.
16:57The BJP has made laws on WAF to grab WAF property, not to protect it.
17:03And BJP has made UAP more stringent than what Mr. Chidambaram had bought a bill.
17:10So on these grounds, yes, we definitely oppose what has happened over here.
17:16So I will not call BJP as secular, but I would call them as a right-wing party having at
17:25its core RSS ideologies.
17:27And then you have these so-called secular political parties who call themselves secular,
17:34but when it comes to the political empowerment of Muslims, they don't have that intellectual honesty to stand with the
17:40community
17:40and to ensure that they progress politically, they get their rightful share.
17:45You know, I'll give you an example.
17:47There is a study, which is a study which is done by some famous American university, I don't remember the
17:52name,
17:52that the intergenerational operability in all the communities in India has improved.
17:58For example, what my grandfather was earning, 100 rupees, everyone is earning more than 200 rupees now.
18:05You know, there's only one community which is earning less than what my grandfather was earning.
18:08That is a Muslim community.
18:10Now, you want to make me respond for that, I'll take that credit.
18:14But you are in power.
18:16Okay.
18:17So, but you think your party is a secular party?
18:20Of course I am secular party.
18:21Not a so-called secular party, not a…
18:23If I am saying that a community should get its rightful share, and our constitution talks about the representative form
18:34of democracy.
18:35So, if each and every community gets a political voice or a space in the corridors of power,
18:44that is the parliament and the assembly and the panchay and the local bodies, what is wrong in that?
18:49No, I'm just, what I'm, I'm not saying there's anything wrong.
18:52I'm just, all I'm saying is that the advisors for the Congress and the Samajwadi party advise both the political
18:58parties
18:59that by allying with somebody like you, will give them and paint them anti-Hindu,
19:05which is a picture that they don't want in Uttar Pradesh.
19:07No, no, no, no.
19:07So, are you accepting that Congress and Samajwadi party are getting Hindu vote?
19:12They think, they see, they've gotten the Hindu, if you go by 2024?
19:16No, no, if you go by…
19:17Lok Sabha election data, they've managed a fair amount of the Hindu…
19:20Good, good, good.
19:20If you go by 2024 in Uttar Pradesh, 80% of the upper caste voted for BJP, 60% Kurmi
19:28and Kyori community voted for BJP,
19:329 out of 10 Rajput voted for a BJP, what more consolidation do you want?
19:37Can I give you another figure in that?
19:38The non-Jatab Dalits, how much did they vote?
19:41Because you know the numbers, so you will know the numbers of how much they voted for the Congress and
19:45the Samajwadi party.
19:46Even within the Dalit community, the Pasi community voted for BJP.
19:50In pockets, not really.
19:51No, no, no.
19:52Ayodhya, sir?
19:53No, no, see, you should go back to your program on the day of the elections
19:58where you had Mr., the great famous Pradeep Gupta over there and he was giving all the data.
20:03No, no, I'm talking about the Pasi community.
20:05I'll give you an example on the seat of Ayodhya.
20:07It is, the Pasi's decide that seat and that seat has gone to Samajwadi party.
20:11But let's not get into the…
20:13No, no, there can be some exceptions here and there.
20:15Right.
20:16But, okay, let's not, let's not get into that.
20:19What's happening at this juncture, Ovesi Saab, that along while we get caught into binaries of religion of Hindu-Muslim,
20:25there is this new breed of voters that have come that they don't understand binaries.
20:30We call them the Gen Z, at least with what we've seen, in the manner in which they've conducted and
20:35spoken about their politics.
20:36They don't understand Hindu, they don't understand Muslim.
20:40Do you think this could, or this new voter group could be as much a problem for you as it
20:46is for the BJP?
20:48I'm, you know, what problem?
20:51When my masjid is being demolished, when I'm being shot in a false encounter,
20:57when my names are being cut in SIR,
21:01when a law is being made to take away my places of worship,
21:06when the lower judicial judgments go contrary to Supreme Court judgments,
21:12and my place of worship is grabbed, I'm already in a huge problem.
21:16What more problem can be created?
21:18You know, I'm at the abyss.
21:20I only have to rise from here, and I'm sure the phoenix will rise.
21:23So, you know, democracy allows them to say what they have to say.
21:30But why is it that you say that, oh, more problems for me?
21:34I'm not saying more problems. I'll tell you why.
21:36Because.
21:37You know, you should say it will be more problem for BJP.
21:40I think that it is a problem for the BJP.
21:42Good, that is, that is good.
21:43But I think it could also be a problem for you.
21:45No, no, it doesn't matter.
21:47You know, more the, I'll be happy if there's more competition.
21:51No problem.
21:53And I'm, it's of the.
21:54Does your politics speak to the young voter of this country?
21:56Of course.
21:57It does.
21:58Yes.
21:58Beyond the lines of.
22:00Yes, you should, you see, you should come and sit in my one public meeting, not as a India
22:05reader reporter, but as somewhere sit and see the, the people who are coming to my public
22:11meeting, we don't mobilize them, you know, like other political parties do 10 buses here,
22:1710 buses there, one lunch box, one, this box, one, that bottle that is not there.
22:22People come out of affection and you'll see them that maybe 70, 80 percent are young.
22:28You have now decided that they will not fall into this trap of being a mere voter and who
22:36will not fall.
22:36who will not fear in voting for a party just because BJP has to be defeated.
22:41They want to defeat BJP, but at the same time, they want a political agency for themselves.
22:49The latest politics right now is drawn against the election commission of this country, OVC
22:57sahab, and the SIR process which the ECI has been conducting.
23:02You have now gone on record to say that the SIR is a backdoor entry of the NRC.
23:10Yes, it is like that.
23:11Why do you say that?
23:12It is an NRC.
23:13It's a backdoor NRC because what you have to do is that first you have to find out where
23:18was my mother or father or my grandfather or grandmother in 2003?
23:24Which house was he in?
23:25Which village was he in?
23:27Then I go back to which assembly constituency he was in.
23:30Then I check his name was there in 2003.
23:33If it was there, what was the spelling used to write down my father's or grandmother's name?
23:42Then I write that name with the booth number, with the constituency number, and then I keep
23:48on praying, Oh God, Allah, my name should come in draft list.
23:52Okay, it has come in draft list.
23:54Then after draft list, then I get a notice.
23:57And in notice, if it is unmapped documents, where should I get document from?
24:03In India, people are surviving, you know, where should we get our next meal?
24:07This government and ECI talks about SIR.
24:10You should get those 12 documents.
24:12And then even if I give those 12 documents, we don't know what will happen with that great
24:18ERO over there, you know, that software which election commission, ECN, we don't know.
24:24And then I mean, when I read the representation of people's act, where is this word anomaly
24:29there?
24:30I don't find an anomaly over there.
24:33What is this?
24:34And then please remember, Mr. Amish has gone on record and said that we will do NRC also.
24:40Now, what form of NRC can take place?
24:42Can it take shape?
24:44You go back to Assam.
24:463 crore 30 lakh people.
24:48Everyone was asked to get documents.
24:51Everyone was rushing for documents, parental linkage.
24:56Where was he in 1966, 1950?
25:00I mean, even after that, nearly 19 lakh people names have not come.
25:05You know what happens after 19 lakhs, the 2 lakh Muslims are there.
25:10Mr. Hemantar Viswa Sharma says, oh, no, no, no.
25:12I want another NRC.
25:14Why?
25:14Because according to his whims, he wanted more Muslims in that NRC.
25:20After the Supreme Court monitored NRCs after having spent 1100 crores.
25:25And many people have committed suicide in Assam.
25:29Many people have been, you know, even now, as we speak.
25:32The case of Mumtaz Begum, without a court saying anything, the Assam Chief Minister dumped her in Bangladesh.
25:41And today, Times of India has reported that the Bangladesh Home Ministry is trying to locate, where is Mumtaz Begum?
25:49The Gauhati High Court ordered a compensation of 10 lakhs to Mumtaz Begum's husband.
25:54An Indian has been thrown inside Bangladesh and the Chief Minister takes pride in that.
25:59So that is NRC.
26:02So you think it's a backdoor NRC?
26:03I was talking to some of the Congress leaders, OVC sahab, here only.
26:06And they say, because there is now a rallying cry, you're not a part of it.
26:10There's an all-party meet tomorrow in Delhi, deliberating on the Election Commission of India
26:15at the back of what is a damning report that has come in a newspaper.
26:19But some of the Congress leaders I was speaking to are saying, OVC sahab doesn't have to worry,
26:24they're still winning.
26:25No, they won't win.
26:28They won't win.
26:28You see, when I was fighting elections in 2024 on behalf of my party, all the top Congress leaders campaigned
26:36against me.
26:37I didn't say you have come.
26:39I don't want the CEC to step down.
26:41Huh?
26:41Should the CEC step down?
26:43Because that's the demand of the opposition.
26:45Do you know who CEC is?
26:46The Chief Election Commissioner.
26:47No, no.
26:47Do you know his background?
26:49He came from this state.
26:50Yes.
26:51Yes.
26:51Yes, he came from this state.
26:53Kerala.
26:53Then, you know, he used to work for which ministry under whom?
26:58You will not say that.
26:59He was working with Mr. Amit Shah, great Amit Shah.
27:03And he was and he's his appointee.
27:05Do you think he'll make him resign?
27:09No, it will not happen.
27:11So, but for me, an SIR is going on in Telangana.
27:16I have to ensure that lakhs of lakhs of people who have got these notices for what?
27:22For what reason?
27:24Six children notice.
27:27Twins.
27:28I have twin daughters.
27:28You know, I had to work for nearly four days to convince that BLO boss.
27:34It is not my mistake.
27:36Not my wife's mistake that she gave birth to twins.
27:39No sir.
27:41How did you get two children?
27:43What is my mistake?
27:44What is my mistake?
27:47Does Asaduddin Ovesi want the CEC to step down?
27:52I want SIR to go away.
27:54Okay.
27:55Listen to me.
27:55I have made a speech in the parliament opposing this bill of selection of CEC.
28:02Unfortunately, many opposition people boycotted and suspended.
28:05And I had said in my speech, the way you're going to appoint a CEC,
28:12it will reduce the credibility of the election commission in the eyes of the Indians.
28:16And that has happened right now with all these great work done by Indian Express reporters.
28:23Where is the credibility now?
28:26Where is the credibility?
28:27People in the eyes of the people of India, the credibility has gone down.
28:31But if you ask me, will he resign?
28:34I don't think so he'll resign.
28:35Should he resign?
28:37Well, we don't know.
28:38If he resigns on upholding the independence of election commission from India, fantastic.
28:44But I don't think so that will happen.
28:47Is it a demand by your party?
28:48My demand is SIR should be scrapped.
28:52That's your demand?
28:53Yes, that is the main demand.
28:55See, we are sitting here in a very comfortable five star hotel, fantastic hotel.
28:59Thank you Kaushik for calling me, you know.
29:03But if you go down on the streets, in my state, out of the 12 documents, we don't have three
29:08documents.
29:09NRC has not happened.
29:11Family register is not given.
29:12I hear you.
29:14That's an issue with a lot of, so you want the SIR to be scrapped?
29:18Yes, that has to be.
29:19So he can continue.
29:19No, I'm not saying.
29:20See, continue or what?
29:22You make me the prime minister, I'll remove him.
29:26You're a political party.
29:28You have a, you can, like the other political parties that are demanding.
29:30See, you have an ex-election, you have an ex-election commissioner sitting over there.
29:36You know, you should ask me.
29:36They have their both.
29:37One is an EC.
29:38Yeah, I know, I know.
29:39They have their session.
29:39See, let us have real, let us make a realistic point.
29:44What is important for us?
29:46Okay.
29:46It is SIR that has to go.
29:48But unfortunately, Supreme Court has upheld it.
29:51Last two questions that I will ask you, OVC Saab.
29:53Where we talk, you talk about the Home Minister, Mr. Ramit Shah.
29:56He also speaks of what is a long-standing dream of the BJP, which is the UCC.
30:04And one by one, each BJP-run state, 21 of them, will implement the UCC.
30:11What are your views on that?
30:12So they'll open many windows, but not quite the door.
30:14That ultimately means India has UCC.
30:16No, no, no.
30:17I understand.
30:18Uniformity or sameness is not the same as equality.
30:23BJP must first accept diversity if you want equality.
30:27You don't accept the diversity of this country.
30:30How can you get equality?
30:31For example, in Hindus, the marriage is Janam Janam Ka Saat.
30:37In Muslims, it is a contract between two equals.
30:41And the UCC of Uttarakhand, Assam and Gujarat is nothing but Hindu Marriage Act, Hindu Succession Act, Hindu Divorce Act.
30:53How are you going to impose that on me?
30:57What about Article 25?
30:59What about Article 26, 29, right to protect culture, right equality, Article 14?
31:05And why are we forgetting that when the drafting committee in the Constant Assembly was debating, then Article 35, which
31:15became 44, the great Malvi Ismail, the founder of IUML, Mr. Ismail, has openly said it.
31:22He moved the amendment that you cannot take away the personal law of the religious rights of the community.
31:30And what did Ambedkar say? Baba Sahib said that, yes, we will not force it on anyone.
31:36Before Article 44, we will not force it on anyone.
31:40If anyone wants it, let them accept it.
31:43This was the vision and the statement of Baba Sahib and Ambedkar.
31:46And BJP is working contrary to that.
31:49How is it that 21% of tribals in Madhya Pradesh are excluded and 7% Muslims are there?
31:57Fair point. That's a good point.
31:58So why should, see, in Muslims you don't have judicial separation.
32:04Grandson does not get a share in his grandfather property.
32:08How is it that?
32:10You know, you first you accept the diversity and why are you imposing?
32:14If that is the case, why are you giving him the tax rebate of nearly 1500 crores under Hindu undivided
32:21family?
32:21Why not to me?
32:24And then the second question you might ask.
32:26Oh, Goa you have UCC.
32:28But in Goa, no, no, you might not like it what I'm saying.
32:32In Goa, if a Hindu marries someone and his wife does not give him a son by the age of
32:3825 or a child or by 30 a male child is not born, that gentleman can have a second wife.
32:45Why don't we make a law that if someone deserts his wife and becomes a constitutional authority, where is the
32:54wife?
32:55Fair point.
32:56Fair point.
32:56But Ovesi Saab, you are a champion of equality.
32:59You've just elucidated that.
33:00Why is it that Mr. Asaduddin Ovesi then doesn't stand up and say anything against the likes of Mr. Abu
33:06Bakar who makes the most misogynistic, sexist statement in this state, Kerala?
33:10Well, you allowed, well, you, you allowed, uh, uh, who's this Malaysian prime minister?
33:15What's his name?
33:17Who was here?
33:19Anwar Ibrahim went and met him.
33:22Government of India arranged it.
33:24What does that have to be with you criticizing him?
33:26Why are you asking me, madam?
33:28Anwar Ibrahim, a foreign dignitary comes, flies down and goes and meets, uh, AP Abu Bakar.
33:36Hmm.
33:36And, you know, he has a right to say his statement, you and me don't agree, don't agree, fine.
33:42Do you agree or do you disagree?
33:44See, in what-
33:45Because there are a lot of young Muslim girls who look up to you as a champion of equality to
33:50call this out.
33:50I, I have said in my speech that aap apni bivii ki ghulami kariye.
33:56Aap apni bivii ko din mein teen martaba I love you boliye.
33:59Aap apni bivii se kabhi mat ladiye.
34:03Aap apni bivii ko bahaar jane dije.
34:05Bilkul jane dije.
34:08Bilkul jane dije.
34:09You will be surprised that if you come to Hyderabad, I'll show you Muslim girls riding Triumph 900cc.
34:16I hear you, sir.
34:16I hear you.
34:17So don't, so don't generalize, you see.
34:21And everyone has a right to their opinion.
34:24What, what is wrong in that?
34:25We'll disagree with that.
34:27Fantastic.
34:28Do you disagree?
34:29In what context that was made?
34:31I'll tell you, it was just made in one very clear context that most of the girls in Keralim who
34:36are Muslim as well understand that girls and women should not go out in public spaces.
34:40That's what was the context.
34:41That is his opinion.
34:44Is it?
34:44Do you agree?
34:45No, I might agree.
34:46I might not agree.
34:47But why make it an issue?
34:48Because, sir, he is somebody who is on a public stage and he is a cleric.
34:52So there are many clerics who, who has a different view than him.
34:56What, what, what would you tell them?
34:57I'm not asking him.
34:58I'm asking you.
34:59No, no, no, no.
34:59You should call a cleric and ask him.
35:02Yeh Quran ar sunnat mein, the Shafai jurisprudence or the Hanafi jurisprudence.
35:07Ask them, they'll tell you.
35:09I was asking you as a representative.
35:11No, I've answered it.
35:11I've answered it in a very clear way.
35:13I'll ask you one final question.
35:15Delimitation.
35:15Hmm.
35:16Your views on delimitation have been very clear, Mr. Rovesi.
35:20But when the government comes out and says that we're in the south, we're sitting in the south.
35:23Everybody will get, every state will get a proportional increase in, in the south.
35:28Well, how do we believe them?
35:29If the delimitation happens on the basis of population, then the north will rule and south will be ruled.
35:38So our, the south share will come down to 20%.
35:43And out of those 850 seats, round about 400, 450 seats will be from north of India.
35:50Second problem with that is that they'll be gerrymandering.
35:54And I'll give you a specific example of what I, no, I'll give you.
35:58Kashmir has 56%, Kashmir division is 56% population.
36:04What is their share in assembly seat?
36:0652%.
36:07Jammu division has what?
36:0943% population and their share is 47%.
36:12In Assam, there were two lokes of our seats, which could have been easily won by Muslims.
36:17Now it has reduced to one.
36:18There were 30 assembly Muslim majority seats that had reduced to 20.
36:23Now who's going to control the gerrymandering?
36:25Is, is your charge that the government through delimitation is going to try and make Muslims politically ineffective?
36:32The share of Muslims, see BJP is not giving any tickets to Muslims.
36:36The other so-called secular parties have reduced the Muslims to mere voters and mere showboys.
36:42Right?
36:43And the, the representation of Muslims in Indian parliament is 4%.
36:48Only 4%.
36:49Does that speaks volumes about our democracy?
36:52That you have an 18 crore population.
36:55There are only 4% getting elected and every, everything can be blamed on me.
36:59You know, I'm fine with that.
37:00I take, I take it as a badge of honor, but what is it that you're doing?
37:05You don't have a Muslim in Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Karnataka, you, you go to Gujarat.
37:13Gujarat from 1984, not a single Muslim MP is there.
37:16Rajasthan, Delhi, there's so many states.
37:20So if you're talking about under representation, who's underrepresented, who's, who should get his rightful share?
37:30Where is my political voice?
37:31Where is my political agency?
37:33Why have you not created that political agency?
37:36When Brahmans have it, Thakurs have it, Nair's have it, you name any, any community, even Dalits have the political
37:43agency.
37:44But Muslims are being told, no, you must only vote and be silent and suffer everything, whether it's bulldozer, masjid
37:53encounter.
37:53But at the time of elections, secularism, Zandabad, and vote for those political parties who have played a major role
38:01in marginalizing you.
38:03OVC Sahab, this is always a great pleasure to speak with you.
38:06And I am glad you chose India to come here.
38:08Thank you, thank you for inviting me.
38:09I must thank my friend Kaushik, again, thank you.
38:12But for his insistence.
38:14But thank you, OVC Sahab, for doing this for us, and thank you so much.
38:18Tomorrow, the all-party meet, you don't think you should have been invited?
38:22Well, it is a club of old school boys, I don't fit in that.
38:26.
38:26.
38:26.