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¿Cuáles son las historias que se esconden detrás de quienes nos han permitido entender mejor el Universo? El astrofísico y astrónomo Juan Diego Soler reconstruyó las de varios científicos y científicas en su último libro. Sobre ellos conversó con El Espectador.
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00:08Hello everyone, welcome once again to El Espectador Interviews.
00:15This time we're with someone from our own house, a physicist, PhD in astronomy and astrophysicist,
00:23He is currently a research associate at the University of Vienna and has just published a very interesting book here in Colombia.
00:33which is called History of the Invisible Universe, which we are going to talk about today.
00:39Juan Diego Soler, welcome Juan Diego to El Espectador, your home, you are a columnist here at El Espectador.
00:46Sergio, thank you very much, it really feels like coming home.
00:49How many years have you been writing for El Espectador, Juan Diego?
00:5214 years old.
00:5414 years old and started, if my memory serves me right, in the magazine.
00:58Exactly, I started it; I was in Antarctica and I wrote to the magazine of El Espectador telling them
01:04I'm here, I'm watching this, you guys publish it and that's how the first story came out on January 4th
01:12of 2011.
01:13So it's not 14 years, it's 16 years.
01:15January 4, 2011, he remembers it fresh, and then he became Juan Diego, like everyone else.
01:22And everyone knows, he's a regular contributor to our science section and is now a columnist for the section
01:32of opinion that kidnapped him from our section.
01:36It's a different exercise; firstly, it's much shorter and much more rushed. I don't have a dog, but having one...
01:43Column is like having a dog; you know you have to go out at a fixed time or there'll be an accident, and
01:48I've had the discipline to always try to get the column out and write short, which for me isn't
01:55It's a simple exercise and being in the moment, but there can't be more moment than science.
02:01Of course, no, definitely. Well Juan Diego, then let's start talking about this book, *History of the Invisible Universe*, and what
02:12The first thing I wanted to ask Juan Diego before going into a little more detail about how he constructed this book is that
02:21Please give us a very brief summary of why the key to knowing where might lie in the stars
02:28We're coming.
02:30It turns out, Sergio, that part of the question of where we come from and where we are going is related to the materials of
02:40which we are made of.
02:41We know that we are made of hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur, phosphorus.
02:47These materials did not come exclusively from the Big Bang, but were forged inside stars.
02:54As the first stars synthesized heavier elements from hydrogen, they built the building blocks of the
03:00which life is made of.
03:02And also, if you think about the platinum that's in the rivers of Colombia, the gold, in
03:07the silver that is in the mines,
03:08These elements were formed in the death of the most massive stars.
03:13So, we know that the materials we are made of were not forged in the Big Bang.
03:18They were part of a multi-generational star process.
03:22Stars are born and die, and it took at least 10 generations of stars to have the
03:28materials that we have there.
03:29So, asking where we come from is like asking what has happened to the stars.
03:33including what stars are made of and what has happened to the matter from which they are formed
03:37the stars.
03:38Great. Juan, you were just telling us about that first text you published in El Espectador 16, 16 years ago, 15, 16
03:46years.
03:48That was when you were in Antarctica doing research.
03:51I suppose that's also where the idea for his previous book, Tales from the End of the World, came from.
04:01I wanted to know at what point you begin to construct this new narrative,
04:07which is also a story about the history of astronomy,
04:11but also about episodes in history itself,
04:15mixed a little with his own anecdotes and short chronicles of visits to those places.
04:20At what point, you say, do I have to write this book and compile all these paths into these 500 pages?
04:30Well, from my point of view, writing is a way of thinking.
04:35When you want to articulate an idea, you cannot articulate it in complete abstraction.
04:41You have to draw, or at least that's what happens to me, or you have to write.
04:45So, Tales from the Edge of the World, which was my previous book,
04:48That was the way I processed what happened to me.
04:50When you are in Antarctica, the driest, highest, coldest continent in the world,
04:54where nobody lives, that nobody even knows how to locate on maps.
04:58I wanted to put the Antarctic continent on the minds of Colombians,
05:01that experience of the Colombian mind,
05:03But ultimately, I wanted to tell you what happened to me.
05:05and how I processed it, and how I articulated what had happened to people who had arrived in Antarctica
05:11under much more complicated conditions.
05:12This book follows the same philosophy, the same narrative thread,
05:16And it is, ultimately, the synthesis of what I do.
05:20I wanted to know where that germ came from,
05:23which is seeing light that cannot be perceived with the eyes,
05:26And how do you tell that story of the space between the stars?
05:30How, not only through modern science,
05:33350 years of history that we have of studying the interstellar medium,
05:37which is what the space between the stars is called,
05:39which is absurd, because it's like calling the sea half-fished,
05:43Ultimately, what I wanted to do was to articulate a little bit what I'm doing at this moment,
05:48My profession, my trade, which is being an astronomer,
05:51studying those regions where stars have not yet been born,
05:54or the regions that remain after stars die.
05:57Juan Diego, we were just talking about it off-camera,
06:02It is also, in some way, in constant motion,
06:05He is, I understand, based in Austria.
06:08But it's constantly evolving; at some conferences,
06:12He just told me he's going to France.
06:15then he goes to Korea,
06:17And we see it all year round, those of us who follow him on social media,
06:21in some different parts of the planet,
06:24How does he manage to write this book?
06:30In the midst of those journeys, moreover,
06:32He's a dad,
06:33It is a smaller area.
06:35Well, that's tremendous coordination.
06:38The book is dedicated to my wife and my daughter,
06:39not only for the inspiration and joy I get from being with them,
06:44but because ultimately they are facing the cannon,
06:46They are the ones who listen to one,
06:47I write in order to be able to write,
06:49I wake up at four in the morning,
06:51which is the best time because there's nobody around,
06:52It makes absolutely no sound,
06:54and you have at least three hours of complete peace and quiet,
06:57when he starts working,
06:59and what I am saying to him,
07:01What I gather from the question is,
07:03When do you find the time to write when you're traveling so much?
07:06And it's because traveling gives him the urge to write.
07:08but tremendous.
07:09Tales from the End of the Earth,
07:11I started writing it at Haneda Airport in Tokyo,
07:15because my flight had been delayed,
07:17And I started taking some notes,
07:18and more or less,
07:19I also started writing this book while traveling,
07:24I was invited to the Harvard College observatory three years ago,
07:29the Harvard University observatory,
07:31and they invited me to write a review,
07:32which I believe was one of the most important events of my life,
07:36to be able to go and tell what one does at the Harvard Observatory,
07:39This is the mecca of astronomy,
07:40It was a professional validation,
07:42and also that he was chosen by colleagues,
07:44and being reviewed,
07:46I realized that there are many things one takes for granted when doing one's professional work,
07:51For example,
07:52Sergio,
07:53I believe that when you are composing columns or stories,
07:57one is in the immediacy,
07:59It was when,
08:00As Picasso said,
08:01When art critics speak,
08:03They speak of meaning, structure, and context,
08:07When painters speak,
08:08They ask where they can get cheap turpentine.
08:11or we live there on a daily basis,
08:13But when those pauses happen,
08:15that happen a lot while traveling,
08:16one begins to wonder,
08:17Well,
08:17And what do I do?
08:19What am I doing?
08:20Has anyone done this before?
08:21From what branch of knowledge was it made into the fruit that I am consuming now?
08:26Because we don't fall out of trees,
08:29nor the journalists,
08:30nor the scientists,
08:30nor any profession,
08:32appears by spontaneous generation,
08:34We come from a tradition,
08:35And that question of tradition also applies,
08:39not only what we are rescuing now,
08:41of pre-Columbian cultures,
08:42or perhaps certain cultures that we had left out of our narrative,
08:47but we are also heirs to Western culture,
08:50and science,
08:51which is probably one of its most powerful fruits.
08:54So it all started there at the Harvard Observatory,
08:56we could say,
08:57who also dedicates a good few pages to it in this book.
09:00Well, on that trip,
09:01They took me to the,
09:04at the Harvard Observatory,
09:05The first continuous photographs of the sky were taken,
09:10They wanted to fill the entire sky using plates,
09:13with the money from Henry Dapper's inheritance.
09:17His wife donated a large sum of money to the Harvard Observatory,
09:23so that they could begin to systematically record the heavens,
09:26not only in the position of the stars,
09:28but also the color of the stars.
09:30To save money,
09:32They began hiring what they later called,
09:35somewhat incorrectly,
09:37women computers.
09:39To cover the costs,
09:41They hired women who also had physical disabilities,
09:43deaf or mute.
09:45The first female computer was the lady who did the laundry.
09:49at the home of the director of the Harvard Observatory,
09:52who was also a mathematician.
09:54She had been a mathematics teacher in Scotland,
09:56I couldn't get a job,
09:57She ended up doing laundry and turned out to be terrible with numbers.
10:00None of them had noticed,
10:02and she was one of the first female computers,
10:04Wilhelmina Fleming.
10:05So, on that trip they took me along,
10:06It's a building that's still at Harvard,
10:09where the photographic plates are kept,
10:11They are 20 by 20 plates,
10:13in which the first photographs of the firmament are recorded,
10:16And then there are the notes from those computer women.
10:20The entire star rating,
10:22the composition of stars,
10:23the fact that the sun is made of helium and hydrogen,
10:26And hydrogen is the main component of the sun and other stars,
10:30It was discovered by a woman, Cecilia Payne.
10:32So, that's where that story came from, I'm going to tell it.
10:34Okay, we're getting to that Cecilia Payne chapter now.
10:38and women computers,
10:40which is also fascinating,
10:41But before we get to that,
10:43Juan Diego, well, he already told us about this episode,
10:46the Harvard Observatory,
10:48But this book is also a review
10:50of the history of astronomy,
10:53which begins with Aristotle,
10:55It goes all the way to the library in Baghdad,
10:57It passes through Ptolemy,
10:58even by the Incas,
11:00Australian Aborigines,
11:01Copernicus, Galileo,
11:03In short, for the Herchers, father, son,
11:05until reaching the radio telescope,
11:10and going through many characters,
11:12that I skip,
11:12But I wanted to ask you,
11:14Juan Diego,
11:15If I had to choose
11:16one of those episodes that you narrate
11:19in the book that seems best to you
11:20more fascinating,
11:22Which one would it be?
11:23Well, actually,
11:25part of what I wanted to show
11:26in the book
11:27It's that the scientists
11:28They also cook with water,
11:29the scientists,
11:31Ultimately,
11:32They are human too
11:33that exist in a context,
11:35even though we're talking about this,
11:36from the ivory tower,
11:38of the great eminences,
11:39all the discoveries
11:40astronomers and scientists
11:42throughout the history of humanity
11:44They were made by humans,
11:45until now,
11:46And humans eat,
11:48We have houses,
11:49We have families,
11:50And I wanted to try to represent that,
11:53Then it occurs to me,
11:54because there are several episodes there,
11:55and it's very early in the book,
11:57Galileo Galilei's shopping list,
12:00in Florence,
12:01I was in Florence,
12:02And it's an episode I narrate there,
12:03I was invited to give a lecture
12:05at the Archetri Observatory,
12:07which is left almost on edge,
12:09It's in front,
12:09where Galileo died
12:11when I was under house arrest,
12:12and among the documents
12:14that is preserved from Galileo
12:15There are the shopping lists,
12:17And that was when Galileo
12:19I was in Venice,
12:19And then he said,
12:20shoes for Vincenzo,
12:22for the son,
12:23oranges,
12:24something that a gentleman owed him,
12:26wine was poorly emptied,
12:27which was the one he liked,
12:29hemp,
12:30pitch,
12:31tin tubes,
12:33These are the components of the telescope,
12:35and some who don't,
12:36Ultimately, they proved to be useless.
12:38because he did many experiments before,
12:39But it was Galileo's turn to do the shopping,
12:41It was his turn to buy shoes for his son,
12:43He owed money to people,
12:44And ultimately, Galileo was practically living on borrowed time.
12:48when it was beginning,
12:49I mean,
12:49It's clear that Galileo wasn't making enough money.
12:52as a mathematics teacher in Venice,
12:55It was a mess then too,
12:56He was an entrepreneur,
12:57although we think that scientists
12:59They're the ones who live over there in the university buildings,
13:01Scientists also have to undertake
13:03to solve those problems
13:04that no one has thought of,
13:05that don't even exist.
13:06Clear,
13:07Juan Diego,
13:07And if I had the opportunity
13:09of going into a wormhole
13:13and travel through time
13:15to meet one of these characters,
13:19these multiple characters,
13:20Which one would you like to know and why?
13:23Phew,
13:24That's complicated.
13:25because apart from the character I would like to meet
13:28He was well known
13:29because he didn't really like talking to people,
13:32And it was Emerson Barnard.
13:33Emerson Barnard,
13:34The guy has a life story
13:36fantastic,
13:37overcoming difficulties,
13:40He was orphaned at a very young age,
13:41in the southern United States,
13:43after the civil war,
13:45he becomes a photography apprentice,
13:47This thing we have here in the lighting studio,
13:49Well, it was Barnard's turn to do the same.
13:50using sunlight,
13:52which was the only source,
13:53using a camera called the Jupiter,
13:55and the Jupiter camera was a magnifying glass
13:57that focused the sunlight
13:58to enlarge the negatives,
14:00and they hired young children
14:02because they had to follow the sun with Jupiter,
14:05to make the reproduction.
14:07That skill later served him well
14:08because it was Barnard who took the first photograph
14:11of the Milky Way,
14:12and the mechanism that telescopes have didn't work
14:16to track objects in the sky,
14:17He was glued to the camera for nine hours.
14:20with a fine pulse,
14:22moving in the firmament.
14:24But apart from that, he was an extremely humane person.
14:26Barnard came to talk
14:27in a professional astronomer
14:29making money discovering comets.
14:32And in an episode that seems to me
14:34one of the most fascinating,
14:35He liked fruit trees.
14:36He was invited to France for a conference,
14:38without speaking a word of French,
14:39Camille Flammarion invited him,
14:41who is one of the great science communicators
14:43and also a little bit of a league
14:44in the history of science.
14:47And for dessert they served him cherries.
14:51And he kept all the cherry pits.
14:53so that they can grow them on their farm
14:56which he had bought near the Lick Observatory.
14:58So Barnard, a very humane fellow,
15:01They called him the man who didn't sleep,
15:03like many astronomers.
15:05Well, I think I'd love to meet Barnard.
15:08although he was a man of few words.
15:10Okay, very good.
15:11And now, Barnard, I ask you a similar question,
15:17more related to that pile of artifacts
15:21which also involves the history of astronomy
15:27And this book, which is also a story
15:29to decipher a little of those efforts
15:31to understand the nature of light.
15:35Behind those artifacts are a lot of people
15:38making those efforts.
15:39Which of those artifacts did you find most fascinating?
15:45What is more dazzling in that historical journey?
15:48For me, training in Colombia,
15:50one as a physicist, as a scientist,
15:53We give a lot of weight to theory.
15:56Here, being a theorist, a theoretical physicist,
15:58like Stephen Hawking,
15:59That's being tough, isn't it?
16:01And in fact, this book is the answer.
16:03Stephen Hawking is not the only one
16:04who can talk about the universe.
16:05It can also be someone who is not a white man.
16:09Or a Colombian can also talk about that.
16:11And also to have that physicality of astronomical work.
16:15The latest in Guaracha in astronomy
16:17It is a telescope one kilometer in size,
16:21What is SKA?
16:23And that telescope, well, it ultimately has
16:26a lot of parts that have to be done in South Africa.
16:29It is a telescope that is being developed in South Africa.
16:31It is the most powerful telescope in the world.
16:33And it's being done in South Africa with South African labor,
16:36including the telescope receivers,
16:38which are refrigerators of this size
16:40that they invited me to meet.
16:42And that's the only thing being taken to South Africa.
16:45The rest of the things, the aluminum parts.
16:47Aluminum needed to be welded, which is very difficult.
16:49They taught the South Africans how to weld aluminum.
16:52They needed the license plates,
16:54So the South African industry began to develop
16:56the human capital to do that.
16:58Then they took us to the meeting
17:03of the International Astronomical Society in 2024,
17:06which is when I finish the book,
17:07It is the final part of the book,
17:08And that's what convinces me that I have to write this.
17:11I have to write down what I'm seeing.
17:13They had parts from the SKEY telescope
17:15that can be done to anyone
17:17like scrap metal, right?
17:20Pieces of aluminum,
17:21But that's what astronomy is made of.
17:23It's made of those small metal objects
17:27that can receive the waves
17:28that come from other parts of the universe
17:30And it is we humans who are doing it
17:33that interpretation.
17:34But ultimately, it's metal.
17:35It is the circuits that allow us to listen to the universe.
17:38From those pieces of metal
17:41that you mentioned earlier
17:44with Galileo Galilei's list,
17:48Centuries pass, many efforts are made,
17:52many astronomers,
17:53many amateur astronomers,
17:58to put it a certain way.
17:59We arrived in these last decades
18:01to these giant radio telescopes
18:05that begin to develop,
18:06My memory is failing me,
18:07in the 1930s and 1940s,
18:08of the last century,
18:10with that guy who was called Growth Reverse,
18:12If my memory serves me right,
18:14that changes with those giant radio telescopes
18:18for astronomy.
18:19What is that leap that he manages to make?
18:21The leap, I think that story
18:23Radio astronomy tells you one or two things.
18:25And sometimes society
18:26She needs to be ready for discoveries.
18:29What we are seeing now
18:30from ChatGPT, from AI agents,
18:32This is nothing new.
18:33AI agents have been here
18:35for a long time.
18:36We are just now reaching the news
18:38that happened a long time ago
18:39and that maybe they hadn't stuck.
18:42When I studied at the University of Toronto,
18:44Jeffrey Hinton gave a talk
18:45about the dangers of AI.
18:47I graduated from university in 2013.
18:50We've been talking for quite some time now.
18:53So, society has to be mature
18:56for those discoveries.
18:57Radio astronomy took off for the first time
19:00in the 1920s, but it didn't catch on.
19:02It didn't catch on because of the lack of interest at that time.
19:05It was to optimize the telegraph.
19:06They wanted to bounce waves off the atmosphere,
19:09But there were no astronomers for almost 30 years.
19:13Then that Mr. Groth River,
19:14who was a potter.
19:16In other words, he sold radio parts.
19:18and using those parts for radios
19:20He built what was the first radio telescope
19:22for continuous astronomical observations.
19:25He made a number of tremendous discoveries.
19:27from his backyard.
19:30Even then it didn't stick.
19:32Nobody had hit anyone.
19:33When will radio astronomy take off?
19:35After World War II.
19:36There are a lot of interested people
19:38in having a monopoly on electromagnetic signals
19:41for military purposes.
19:42Do they realize it?
19:43That same light that we are using
19:45to detect the enemy,
19:47to communicate,
19:48It's telling us something about the universe.
19:50And it's happened a lot of times.
19:51in military applications.
19:54When the first infrared satellites
19:56They were launched out of Earth's atmosphere,
19:59The goal was to see
20:00where there were nuclear tests.
20:02And they realized
20:02that the signal of nuclear tests
20:03It came from outside,
20:04from the universe,
20:06since all thermonuclear explosions
20:07that are happening,
20:08the centers of the galaxies.
20:10So, really,
20:13what I learned from that development
20:15of radio astronomy
20:15It's just that sometimes society
20:16It also needs to reach a little
20:18like that peak.
20:20And if there are any books
20:21The pioneers have a hard time.
20:23They're having a hard time.
20:23because it is a very lonely road.
20:25It is similar to writing.
20:27You who wrote for the newspaper,
20:29You know there is no loneliness.
20:31like finishing a text
20:32and not knowing who will receive it.
20:34So, this is the bridge.
20:35that I establish to see
20:36How Colombians receive it
20:38those stories of the universe
20:39that cannot be seen with the eyes.
20:40Great, Juan.
20:42Juan Diego,
20:42and that after this count
20:47There are still a lot of questions.
20:49There are questions that have been answered
20:52and that astronomers
20:53have been solving
20:54through time.
20:56Today, if we talk about the stars,
20:59What fundamental questions
21:01remain to be resolved
21:02at the moment?
21:04I think the fundamental question
21:07This is how stars are formed
21:09and how effectively
21:10Stars are forming.
21:12We know
21:13the ingredients of the stars.
21:15So, hydrogen
21:15and some other metals.
21:18We called,
21:18We astronomers know
21:19very fundamental chemistry
21:20because everything that isn't hydrogen
21:22We call them metals.
21:24How fast
21:25Are stars forming?
21:27It's one of the things
21:27that we still cannot explain.
21:29Right now,
21:29in our dairy life,
21:30It is forming two stars
21:31the size of the Sun per year,
21:33more or less,
21:33on average.
21:35But the amount of matter
21:37that's in the galaxy
21:38that's enough
21:38to train 200 stars per year.
21:41Where does it come from?
21:42that blunder
21:42of almost two orders of magnitude?
21:45A factor of 100
21:45that the numbers aren't adding up.
21:48And that's fundamental.
21:49because ultimately
21:49He's telling her
21:51that the recycling process
21:52of material
21:52that carries the material
21:53that is released
21:54of the galaxy
21:55in the dying stars
21:56which is then recycled
21:57to be stars like the Sun,
21:59planets like Earth,
22:00people like you and me,
22:02Well, we're not clear on that.
22:03That's what they call it,
22:04if you go to a cocktail party
22:05with astrophysicists,
22:07the male cycle
22:08in the galaxy,
22:09what does it mean
22:11We know that the flour is there,
22:12We know the breads,
22:13but they're not adding up for us
22:14the accounts.
22:15That is one of the great mysteries.
22:16because ultimately
22:17He's telling her
22:17how it has evolved
22:19the matter
22:19since the Big Bang
22:20until now
22:21where we already have
22:21planets like us.
22:23Juan Diego,
22:25Today there are a couple of figures
22:28that mentions there
22:29in the book
22:30and a very striking one
22:31I think that in the last
22:33final chapters.
22:35Today in the latest catalog
22:37published by Gaia
22:38says more or less
22:39that there are 1.8 billion
22:42of stars
22:44that cover
22:45only 1%
22:45of the stellar population
22:47of the Milky Way.
22:48How are we?
22:50treating
22:51to discover
22:51The other 99%?
22:54What artifacts
22:55Is there anything to discover?
22:56The latest
22:57that has been launched
22:59It's the space telescope
23:00Roman.
23:01So,
23:01the reason why
23:02we barely see
23:031% of the galaxy
23:05It's because of the darkening
23:06of interstellar dust
23:07which is one
23:08of the protagonists
23:09from the book
23:09And that's because when we
23:11we look at the sky
23:12We are not seeing
23:13all the stars
23:14possible,
23:15We see the stars
23:16whose light
23:17It affects us
23:18but we also see
23:19dust clouds
23:20that are darkening
23:22starlight.
23:23There are places
23:23in which you can see
23:24a little further on,
23:25For example,
23:26the galaxy is like
23:27if it were a plan
23:28or a plate,
23:29we live
23:29on one side of the plate,
23:30if you look up
23:31because it doesn't have much material
23:33that obscures it
23:33Then you can see it clearly.
23:34you can even see other galaxies
23:36like the Milky Way,
23:37can see the light
23:38of the Big Bang
23:40But if you look
23:41directly
23:41in the plane of the galaxy
23:43Well, you see a certain amount.
23:44of clouds
23:45dust
23:45that are obscuring it
23:46starlight.
23:47As you can see
23:48through those clouds
23:49of dust?
23:49In infrared light.
23:51It is light that passes through
23:52those dust clouds
23:53and allows us to see stars
23:54that are much further away.
23:56Then Gaia,
23:57Gaia's boundary
23:58of that 1%
23:59that you can see
23:59It's because Gaia is watching.
24:01in visible light
24:01But Gaia
24:03It was the instrument
24:05to do counts
24:06of stars
24:06more powerful
24:07that we have.
24:08Now for optimization
24:09of that instrument
24:10It's seeing those stars
24:11but at different frequencies
24:13that we cannot see
24:13with the eyes
24:14in the infrared.
24:16Wow, amazing.
24:17Juan Diego,
24:18Well,
24:18We're running out
24:20time
24:20But I didn't want to.
24:22Let it go
24:23without doing it
24:24a couple of questions
24:24about some episodes
24:26also interesting
24:27which he mentions.
24:28The first
24:28That's what he said
24:30at the beginning
24:31from our conversation
24:32a bit
24:33It is dedicated to him
24:33to several pages
24:34to the role
24:35that have had
24:35women
24:36in astronomy
24:38at the beginning
24:39with many difficulties
24:40such as the case
24:41by Cecilia Payne
24:41whom I mentioned
24:43at the beginning.
24:45Today
24:46if you look
24:47retrospectively
24:48Do you think that already
24:49we gave them
24:50the place
24:50in history
24:51of astronomy
24:52that they deserve
24:53those women
24:54which also
24:55They were at the forefront
24:56of many discoveries?
24:57I don't think they count.
24:58those stories
24:59enough
24:59and not only
25:00women
25:01but people
25:02who contributed
25:03to astronomy
25:03who were coming
25:04of places
25:04truly unexpected
25:06Mekhnat Saha
25:07Saha did the equation
25:08that describes
25:09the light
25:10that comes from the sun
25:11Hindu
25:12from India
25:14in a time
25:15in which India
25:15until now
25:16It was consolidating
25:17as a nation
25:17India consolidated
25:19as a nation
25:19in addition to the struggles
25:21by Gandhi
25:21and the movements
25:23civil rights
25:25in India
25:26also through
25:27of its scientists
25:28Bose
25:29Nobel Prize
25:30of physics
25:31that found
25:32a new state
25:32of the matter
25:33the state
25:33Bose Einstein
25:35Chandrasekhar
25:36that they corresponded
25:37directly
25:38one-on-one
25:39with Einstein
25:39Einstein
25:40She loved to talk
25:41with Chandrasekhar
25:41because he always had
25:42some giant ideas
25:43and Saha
25:44that almost
25:46It's not even mentioned
25:47over there
25:47it is mentioned
25:48the striker
25:48that someday
25:49played with the
25:49Manchester United
25:50when the Saha
25:51most famous
25:51should be
25:52the one who revealed to us
25:53the secret of the sun
25:53same for us
25:55Colombians
25:56and Latin Americans
25:57in the book
25:58in the last part
25:59I tell
25:59major developments
26:00of radio astronomy
26:01in Argentina
26:02because one of the things
26:03who realizes
26:04of an astronomy
26:05It's that the whole sky
26:05It cannot be seen from the north
26:07so
26:08the global north
26:09or geographic north
26:11He needs to see
26:12the other piece
26:13from the sky
26:13And that's where they come from.
26:14the developments
26:15of radio astronomy
26:16in Argentina
26:17the first observation
26:19global
26:20of all the sky
26:21It was completed
26:22with data
26:22from Argentina
26:23to the Argentinians
26:24they handed them over
26:25one of the reception areas
26:27radio
26:28to install it
26:29on some antennas
26:30those antennas
26:31They brought them
26:31dismantled
26:32from the United States
26:33the Argentinians
26:33They had to assemble them
26:35and lastly
26:36were made
26:36one of the observations
26:37that we still use
26:38These are data
26:39that still
26:39are used
26:40to do
26:41to do radio astronomy
26:43to conduct research
26:44from the gas clouds
26:45in the sky
26:45and in times
26:46extremely turbulent
26:47because it mixes
26:48the development
26:49from the Institute of Radio Astronomy
26:51from Argentina
26:52with the dictatorships
26:54of the southern cone
26:55and times
26:55quite complex
26:56and it is
26:57What is the best time
26:58to do science?
26:59now
27:00because there won't be
27:01best time
27:01science is done
27:02when possible
27:03of course, also
27:05They have to suspend
27:06for a period
27:07by the dictatorship
27:08in Argentina
27:09suspend
27:10for a good period
27:11the investigation
27:12in that
27:13radio astronomy
27:14or not
27:14and they leave
27:15many
27:15of the scientists
27:17that are there
27:17Catherine Cesarsky
27:18which was
27:19chairwoman
27:20of the Astronomical Union
27:21International
27:22I met Catherine
27:23in Paris
27:24He spoke perfectly
27:26in French
27:26But he had an accent.
27:27strange
27:27and then
27:29I once asked him
27:29Catherine
27:30Where was he from?
27:31and he told me
27:32No, I'm from Argentina.
27:32And she is one of those people
27:34and like many
27:35other scientists
27:36which I cannot name now
27:37that they had to look
27:38well the way
27:39for your research
27:40and so in the end
27:41it's the roads
27:42that also open
27:42across the world
27:43and talent
27:44that arises in countries
27:45like ours
27:46that maybe
27:47They are not identified
27:48with radio astronomy
27:48But we...
27:49We also make discoveries
27:50and we have the right
27:51to participate
27:52of that heritage
27:54that we have
27:54which is the firmament
27:55and speaking
27:56of the global south
27:58Juan Diego
27:59you dedicate
28:00also a few pages
28:01to a character
28:03much loved
28:05of history
28:05Colombian
28:06which is the
28:07wise Caldas
28:08and this interaction
28:09that had
28:10with José Celestino Mutis
28:12even with Humboldt
28:13when he was
28:15here
28:16in it
28:16in South America
28:17that
28:18it generates for you
28:20the wise Caldas
28:21well first
28:22a tremendous curiosity
28:23I didn't want to
28:24that this was a story
28:25of astronomy
28:27not counting
28:27what was happening
28:28here in our territory
28:29and if we have had
28:30a scientist
28:31world-class
28:31that has emerged
28:32almost spontaneously
28:34It was the wise Caldas
28:35when I was writing
28:36about Popayán
28:37in the book
28:37I didn't mean to offend anyone
28:38because Humboldt
28:40speak in terms
28:40very derogatory
28:41from Popayán
28:42which was the place
28:42where coins were made
28:43and little else
28:44I asked Constaín
28:46whether it's someone
28:47that Popayán knows
28:47It's Constantin
28:48and he told me
28:48Yes, indeed.
28:49the descriptions
28:50are pejorative
28:50Do it
28:51cool
28:51and Caldas
28:52He came out there
28:53by spontaneous generation
28:55and Caldas
28:56He made some developments
28:57spectacular
28:57Caldas was
28:58the first type
28:59likely
29:00who realized
29:00that the water boils
29:02at different temperatures
29:03at different heights
29:04discovered
29:05the concept
29:06of thermal floors
29:07that afterwards
29:07Humboldt
29:08revealed
29:09and it became widespread
29:10through his work
29:11Cosmos
29:11but the wise Caldas
29:12through observations
29:13physical
29:14what was I doing
29:15in our territory
29:17established
29:17a lot
29:18of the beginning
29:19important
29:19that the wise Caldas
29:21ultimately
29:21I say spontaneous generation
29:22But he was a guy.
29:23who had the good fortune
29:24to receive
29:25the inheritance
29:25of the expeditions
29:26de la Condamine
29:26which was when
29:27They were trying
29:28measure the diameter
29:29from the equator
29:29of the earth
29:30The French came
29:31to Colombia
29:32southern Colombia
29:33and to the equator
29:34to go on expeditions
29:35measurement
29:36and many of those texts
29:38that they brought
29:38they became
29:38in texts
29:39that were
29:39within reach
29:40of people
29:41what it cost him
29:43to Caldas
29:43was to find
29:44measuring instruments
29:45thermometers
29:46ever
29:46It breaks
29:47the thermometer
29:47Caldas
29:48He was a lawyer
29:49because they forced him
29:49to study law
29:50But it's his turn.
29:51take tours
29:53between Popayán
29:53and Bogotá
29:54to sell fabrics
29:55and on those tours
29:56Well, it begins
29:57to measure
29:57our territory
29:58and in fact
29:59That costs him
30:00life
30:00to Caldas
30:02He is shot.
30:04because through
30:05of the subscriptions
30:06to a magazine
30:06he asked
30:07to the New Granadans
30:08at the time
30:09measure our country
30:10And that was it.
30:11a top secret
30:12military
30:12That's why
30:13ultimately
30:14He is shot.
30:15There are two texts
30:17that I reproduce
30:19whole
30:19in the chapter
30:20about the wise man
30:21Caldas
30:21It's the letter
30:22of Clemency
30:22where it asks
30:23Don't shoot him.
30:24and the letter
30:25by Pascual Enrile
30:26which was the second
30:27in command
30:27Morillo
30:28a hero
30:30of the war
30:31against the French
30:32for the Spanish
30:33He's a hero
30:33orders killings
30:34to Caldas
30:35for biting
30:36the hand
30:36that gave him
30:36to eat
30:37because
30:37conceives
30:38that those
30:39knowledge
30:39that he has
30:41about the uprisings
30:42topographic
30:43about physics
30:43They come from Europe
30:44how is it that
30:45he manifests
30:47contrary to that
30:47So it's an inheritance.
30:49that we have lost
30:50I think that
30:50the work
30:51of the wise Caldas
30:52and me always
30:53that has bothered me
30:54that wise term
30:55I think that
30:56Yes, it suits her quite well.
30:57Juan Diego
30:58And well, that's it.
30:59taking a jump
31:01in time
31:02if we place ourselves
31:03at this point
31:06wanted to
31:07he told us
31:08a bit
31:08what is the
31:09filament
31:10Magdalena
31:11which has a lot
31:12what to see
31:13with you
31:13We reviewed it
31:14here
31:14on some occasion
31:16It's been a few years now.
31:18but I wanted to
31:18I would tell him
31:19to everyone
31:20those who are
31:22seeing
31:22what is
31:24he
31:25filament
31:26Magdalena
31:26is
31:27the materialization
31:29of what he dreams
31:30every person
31:31that he/she dedicates
31:32to science
31:32and physics
31:32and it's seeing something
31:33that someone
31:33never before
31:34had seen
31:36when I
31:36I went to work
31:37to Germany
31:37in it
31:38Max Planck Institute
31:39of Astronomy
31:40I was part of it
31:41of a project
31:42that arrived
31:42four years already
31:43to make the map
31:45more details
31:46of hydrogen gas
31:48in the Milky Way
31:48to make observations
31:50like the ones you can make
31:51one with a telescope
31:52that you can get
31:53in a miscellaneous
31:53neighborhood
31:54with that resolution
31:56but in length
31:57radio wave
31:58in which it is shining
31:59the gas in our galaxy
32:00He needs a telescope.
32:0227 kilometers
32:02diameter
32:03So that takes
32:04a lot of developments
32:05and I fell
32:06there in that project
32:08I was the observer
32:09of that project
32:10that ultimately
32:10the observations
32:11They were already made
32:11we are composing
32:12the data
32:13and had something
32:14that I hadn't seen
32:15never
32:16That's an image.
32:18of the galactic plane
32:19one-third
32:20of the galactic plane
32:20of the Milky Way
32:22from that band
32:23that is seen
32:24in the night sky
32:25and with a resolution
32:26which is really not much
32:28regarding what can
32:29obtain with Hubble
32:29But it was for the best.
32:30that was at that moment
32:32those observations
32:33They had a small mistake
32:34And they didn't correct it
32:35the fact
32:35that our galaxy
32:36It's not a dish
32:37but it's like a potato chip
32:38then it goes upwards
32:39a little bit
32:40I was doing that analysis
32:42data
32:42and that data
32:43had been excluded
32:44because the part
32:45of the french fry
32:45in which it was not expected
32:47see nothing
32:47and in that piece
32:48that nothing could be seen
32:49There was a little snake
32:50It was a little snake
32:52that when we estimate
32:53the distance
32:53It is 17 kiloparsecs away
32:56that is to say
32:57about 45,000 light-years away
32:59It's on the other side
33:00of the Milky Way
33:02and it's huge
33:03It has 100,000 times
33:04the mass of the Sun
33:05and it was a little snake
33:06the biggest argument
33:07And that was the most
33:08It was difficult
33:09It's how long it is
33:10It has 1.7 kiloparsecs
33:12that is to say
33:13about 4500 light years
33:16from end to end
33:17but it can be longer
33:18And it was my turn
33:21the opportunity
33:22to give it the name
33:23because in astronomy
33:26Well, if you see it
33:27he names it
33:28names for structures
33:29that big
33:30It had never been found
33:30such a large structure
33:31so of the galaxy
33:32It's like a little arm
33:33of the Milky Way
33:34But this is strange.
33:35because it's underneath
33:36of the galaxy
33:37It's very long
33:38It has a certain amount of mass
33:39and apparently
33:39is not forming
33:40new stars
33:41and I was reading
33:42the Wade Davis River
33:43and I knew I had to put it
33:45the name of the fundamental river
33:47without the Magdalena River
33:48Colombia would not exist
33:49That was a small tribute
33:50to my country
33:51that it detached a lot
33:53Sergio
33:54It's not my result
33:55most interesting astronomical
33:56But if it's the one I can
33:57what I can say
33:58I discovered
33:59a snake
34:00of one hundred thousand
34:01solar masses
34:02on the other side
34:02of the galaxy
34:03and I named her Magdalena
34:04exactly
34:05although really
34:06They are telling him
34:06Maggie
34:07oh well
34:07we will always know
34:08and it's in the paper
34:09is appointed
34:11along the main river
34:12from Colombia
34:12Juan Diego
34:13I can't let go
34:14without telling us
34:15What's up today?
34:16what is
34:17investigating
34:18in which project
34:18he's involved
34:19Well, I'm still working
34:21I'm still working
34:22with the observations
34:23of the gas
34:23in the Milky Way
34:24and using telescopes
34:26synthesis
34:27when you have
34:28a very large telescope
34:29because it cannot fill
34:30a 27-kilometer plate
34:31of metal plates
34:32to be a giant telescope
34:34although he can try
34:35in China right now
34:36There is a telescope
34:36which is called FAST
34:37which has 500 kilometers
34:39500 meters in diameter
34:40and you can aim a little bit
34:42I'm still working with telescopes.
34:44that can be organized
34:46as if they were antennas
34:47to observe radio waves
34:49And now the final result
34:50that we have
34:50was
34:51we saw a bubble
34:52that is around
34:53from the Orion Nebula
34:55Nobody had seen it
34:56because nobody had looked for it
34:57It is one of those results
34:59that my colleagues tell me
34:59Well, and that's it.
35:01Why had no one discovered it?
35:03because nobody
35:04It occurred to him to ask
35:05that something that is
35:06immediately
35:07within our galaxy
35:08this is right here
35:09It is 1350 light-years away
35:10this is right here
35:11as can be observed
35:13And lastly, Sergio gets angry
35:14what is
35:15the ESCE
35:16the telescope
35:17of one kilometer
35:18opening
35:18What will it be?
35:19the most powerful instrument
35:21that we have on Earth
35:23it will generate
35:23in just one hour
35:24so much data
35:25how it has generated
35:26the largest telescopes
35:27that we have
35:27on radio waves
35:28is a quantity
35:29data
35:31that we don't know
35:32how to handle
35:33at the moment
35:33we can complete
35:34terabytes of data
35:35per hour
35:36What about that data?
35:37Shall we save?
35:38Who is going to help us?
35:39to resolve
35:41the enigmas
35:42What are they in that data?
35:44even in times
35:45of AI
35:45we don't know
35:46how AI
35:47can help us
35:48in that way
35:49also
35:49is training
35:50to AI
35:50just like we train
35:51us
35:52with new types
35:52data
35:53AI
35:54we cannot give
35:54the answers
35:55to the questions
35:55that not even
35:56we know that we had
35:58tremendous
35:58Juan Diego
35:59And what are you reading?
36:00at the moment?
36:01I'm reading two things
36:03but one of them put me
36:04bad-tempered
36:04for the book tour
36:05So I left her.
36:06I was reading
36:06London
36:0738th Street
36:08by Philip Sands
36:09which is history
36:10of
36:12the trial
36:12extradition
36:13Pinochet's
36:13Philip Sands
36:14is known
36:15in Spanish
36:16are translated
36:17his works
36:18East Street
36:18West Street
36:19which is about
36:19the Holocaust
36:21in
36:21in
36:22in Levi
36:23that city
36:24that we hear so much about
36:25in the news
36:25because of what is happening
36:26in Ukraine
36:27and the aggression
36:27of the Russian Federation
36:28towards Ukraine
36:29It turns out that Levi
36:31It was one of the centers
36:31of the Holocaust
36:32and this gentleman
36:33He is a lawyer
36:34human rights
36:35and makes the comparison
36:37between
36:38what happened
36:39in the trial
36:40Pinochet's
36:40and the trial
36:41from a German
36:42which had been
36:44one of the perpetrators
36:45of the Holocaust
36:46who took refuge
36:46in Chile
36:47thanks to an assistant
36:48military
36:49that met
36:50in Ecuador
36:50which was called
36:51Augusto Pinochet
36:52that
36:53well
36:54It doesn't turn me on
36:54very good-tempered
36:55to take a tour
36:56of books
36:57and then
36:57I'm rereading myself
36:58the Aleph
36:59of
36:59The Warwick
37:00which are short stories
37:01and they leave him
37:02one more space
37:03well for
37:03have new ideas
37:04for the next book
37:05Okay, very good.
37:06and the next book
37:07He already has some clues.
37:09First I have to
37:10recover from this
37:11but I am
37:12thinking about audiences
37:13different
37:14and in illustration
37:15we are
37:15next year
37:16It's been 70 years
37:18from Laika's flight
37:19to space
37:19We have a book
37:20illustrated about Laika
37:22and another book
37:23that I brought
37:24so you can take a look at it
37:25Sergio
37:26which is about extinctions
37:27about what
37:29what are we humans doing?
37:30at the moment
37:31with our planet
37:32and how are we going to see it
37:33in 100 years
37:34how in 100 years
37:34Let's see
37:35the lucky ones
37:36who we are at this moment
37:37Wow, that's interesting.
37:38Juan Diego
37:39Well, thank you very much.
37:40for coming here
37:41even the viewer
37:42to talk
37:43with us
37:44Let's talk here
37:46at home
37:46Sergio is a pleasure
37:48This is a book
37:49that is designed
37:50for everyone
37:51It's an astronomy book
37:52but it doesn't have
37:53nor equations
37:53It has many drawings.
37:55It has 97 illustrations
37:56that we included there
37:58then no
37:58despite being
37:59500 pages
38:00It has illustrations
38:02astronomical
38:03that have just left
38:04from the oven
38:05and it is a compendium
38:06really
38:06what one should know
38:08to understand
38:09What's outside?
38:10Well, now you know.
38:12everyone
38:14history of the universe
38:16invisible
38:17that just came out
38:18from the oven
38:19by the astrophysicist
38:21and Colombian astronomer
38:22Juan Diego Soler
38:23who joined us today
38:24in interviews
38:25the viewer
38:26so
38:26Well, Juan Diego
38:27Thank you again.
38:28And thank you very much.
38:29to everyone
38:31thank you for joining us
38:32one more time
38:32in these talks
38:34What do we do?
38:34in El Espectador
38:35with some characters
38:37incredible
38:38from Colombia
38:39see you
38:40in a future opportunity
38:41thank you
38:42and bye
38:43and bye
38:43and bye
38:44and bye
38:45and bye
38:46Thanks for watching the video.