- 16 hours ago
CTP (S3E172) What If Reading Is A Spectrum?
We debate whether audiobooks “count” as reading and why the definition changes when you factor in accessibility, learning styles, and real-world comprehension. We also talk with author and podcaster Lucinda Sage Midgordon about her time-slip novel, creative projects, and how to build audio and video shows without overspending.
• casual reading decline versus growth in audiobooks and ebooks
• defining “reading” as decoding text versus absorbing material
• special education experiences with read-aloud learning and oral testing
• Braille as a reminder that reading uses more than eyes
• Lucinda’s novel The Space Between Time and its two connected timelines
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https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jlenarddetroit
We debate whether audiobooks “count” as reading and why the definition changes when you factor in accessibility, learning styles, and real-world comprehension. We also talk with author and podcaster Lucinda Sage Midgordon about her time-slip novel, creative projects, and how to build audio and video shows without overspending.
• casual reading decline versus growth in audiobooks and ebooks
• defining “reading” as decoding text versus absorbing material
• special education experiences with read-aloud learning and oral testing
• Braille as a reminder that reading uses more than eyes
• Lucinda’s novel The Space Between Time and its two connected timelines
SEND US FEEDBACK: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/fan_mail/new
https://tinyurl.com/SubscribeToCTP
CTP Audios: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBuzzsprout
CTP Videos: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBITCHUTE
https://tinyurl.com/CTPgear
https://tinyurl.com/JLenardDetroitGear
AI images/videos/audio CTP uses: https://tinyurl.com/GalaxyMagicaAI
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jlenarddetroit
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, welcome to another episode of Perstitutionalist Podcast.
00:06I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard.
00:09That's L-E-N-A-R-D.
00:12It looks French.
00:13It's not.
00:14It's Leonard without an O.
00:17Thank you for tuning in, as Graham Norton used to say, on his show.
00:24Let's get on with the show!
00:25So, joining me today is Lucinda Sage Midgordon.
00:33And the post-production, of course, you viewing on behind-the-scenes video, you'll see the
00:41name on the scrawl at the bottom.
00:44But for those listening audio only, or maybe reading a transcript, because AI doesn't always
00:52transcribe the words properly, it's spelled L-U-C-I-A-N-D-A.
01:00No, L-U-C-I-N-D-A.
01:04There's no A in there.
01:06Okay.
01:07See, I...
01:08The A is at the end.
01:10That's why, before I hit record, I confirmed how to pronounce the name, because I was saying
01:18it could be L-U-C-I-N-D-A, but no, it couldn't, because that A don't belong there.
01:26When I wrote it down, I wrote it down wrong.
01:29So, let me try that again.
01:32It's L-U-C-I-N-D-A.
01:35Yes.
01:37Sage, S-A-G-E, Midgordon, M-I-D-G-O-R-D-E-N.
01:47Yes.
01:48That part's right?
01:50Okay.
01:51It's Norwegian.
01:52It's Norwegian, so it's E-N.
01:55Yeah.
01:55Well, that's neither here, Norwegian there.
02:00Ba-dum-pum.
02:01Good night, everybody.
02:03Be sure to tip your host and hostess.
02:06I can never pass the light.
02:08Welcome to the show, Lucinda.
02:11Thank you very much, Joseph.
02:14It's already fun.
02:17I try to always interject humor where I can.
02:22Now, your profile starts with Avid Reader.
02:28So, I want to start there, because I've been sharing, like, on True Social, in the books group, me being
02:38an author myself, I am concerned studies are showing casual reading is dropping, has been dropping, and continues to drop.
02:51What are your thoughts on that?
02:53Well, it depends on how you define reading, because audiobook sales are up, and I think even e-book sales
03:05are up.
03:05So, if you're talking about reading a physical book, that's probably true, and it's true in my household, because we
03:13have bookshelves in every room of our house, practically, and they're all full, and so we don't have room for
03:19physical books anymore.
03:21So, my husband and I read e-books, or he likes to read an e-book along with the audio,
03:30do both at the same time.
03:32Interesting.
03:33Yeah, which I think if I ever do go to audiobooks, I think I'll do it that way, because when
03:39I'm listening, I start thinking about something in the story, and my mind goes off, and then I've lost where
03:46the story's going.
03:49I have both duality, ADHD and OCD, so yeah, my mind might drift, or it might obsess on something and
04:01miss something else.
04:02But I'm glad you mentioned that about audiobooks, because also, on True Social and the Books Group, I conducted a
04:12poll, because indeed, Epoch Times posed the question, is an audiobook really still considered reading?
04:26And most in the room said no, and I agree in part that it's not the same thing, but by
04:36extension, it kind of sort of is because you're still absorbing a book's material.
04:44What are your thoughts on that?
04:46Well, I had two or three long-term sub-assignments in the special ed department before I got my master's
04:56of education and started teaching theater, which is what my other master's is, and those kids have different levels of
05:07disability, and some of them are really auditory.
05:11They learn from auditory things, or some were really visual, but sometimes the reading part, the actual physically holding a
05:25book and reading it was difficult for them, but they could absorb the information in other ways.
05:34So, I would read out loud in class a lot when I was teaching English for a year in the
05:45special ed department, and yeah, they really, I think that helped, because we could stop and discuss something that, you
05:56know, had happened in the book.
05:59So, or the story, or the story, whatever we were reading, and yeah, and then sometimes test-taking was really
06:07difficult for them if it was only on a sheet of paper.
06:12Or, sometimes they, sometimes they had difficulties with that, so I would have to give an oral test, you know,
06:19or I can't remember all of the different methods that we used for helping them learn and taking tests and
06:29that kind of thing.
06:30So, you know, when they had the state tests that you had to pass for, to graduate, they, they would
06:39have to do it, sometimes they'd have to do those for the special ed kids separately, because they just couldn't,
06:48you know, they couldn't do them sitting down reading and having a time, have it be timed.
06:53And that was, that was, they couldn't, that was, they couldn't do the timed thing.
06:55That, some of them really just freaked out.
06:59Yeah.
06:59And they had a timed test.
07:01So, to again, to be clear, let's clarify.
07:07So, you are kind of in the same camp as me.
07:12Technically, it isn't reading an audio book, because you're not using your eyeballs to absorb a physical book.
07:23Or an e-book, even on a smaller screen, but you are still absorbing book material.
07:32So, technically, no, it's not reading, but in many regards, it can be just as good or better, in some
07:44cases, depending on the person.
07:52Uh-oh, I think you froze.
07:54Maybe.
07:55Oh, there we go.
07:56You froze for a second.
07:58Yeah.
07:59And I said, I guess it depends on the information, the definition of reading.
08:05I hate warping of language and words, but yeah, in the technical definition, Merriam-Webster sense, no, it absolutely is
08:18not reading, but again, it is absorbing reading material.
08:24Right.
08:26Yeah, right.
08:28Exactly.
08:29Yeah.
08:30And as you pointed out, in certain cases with certain people with not necessarily a learning disability, but an easier
08:44way for them to learn to absorb reading material auditorially.
08:50Yeah, I mean, is using braille reading?
08:54They're not using their eyes.
08:58Very, very good distinction.
09:02Again, these are kind of technical issues, but indeed, so it is in reading via another sensory method.
09:16Yeah, right.
09:18I guess that would be the way we'd have to describe it, expand the definition.
09:27Because again, I don't like the continued modern day trend of warping and constantly redefining words,
09:38but we can add more to that to make it a phrase that expands and makes sense as we have.
09:48Yeah, I mean, how many, there are words that have more than one definition.
09:53So reading can have more than one definition.
09:55That is true.
09:56That is true.
09:56But traditionally, we think of reading as indeed a one thing.
10:07You're taking an actual printed one way or the other, physically in a physical book or digitally, it's still printed.
10:20The words still appear.
10:24Right.
10:26I hope I didn't lose people because now we've gone way down into the weeds.
10:33But those questions did bother me enough that I put it out into a poll and questioned it on True
10:45Social.
10:46And I wasn't surprised because, again, I worded it like the Epoch Times did, is listening to an audio book
10:57reading.
10:58Well, based on that short, succinct, closed-end question, technically the answer is no, but there's a but on there.
11:11Right.
11:12Not everybody's the same.
11:14Not everybody absorbs information the same.
11:18Now, you are also a writer, so obviously these trends concern or interest you in one way or another, yes?
11:32What is your latest book?
11:36Well, I have two that are in process.
11:40The first one is, it's a sequel to my published novel, The Space Between Time is my published novel.
11:49Oh, here, I'll show you the cover of it.
11:52Okay, for the benefit of the audio and the transcript, you, of course, can't see the behind-the-scenes video
11:59she's holding up the book.
12:02Yeah, and it's called The Space Between Time.
12:04It's a two-timeline book, and the two women protagonists are related.
12:11So, The Woman and the Past is the three-times great-grandmother of the woman in the present.
12:17And they're connected by the three-times great-grandmother's journals.
12:25So, the woman in the present has this devastating couple of weeks where her fiancé breaks their engagement, her mother
12:35dies, and she loses her job.
12:37And so, she goes home to where her mother lived in Roseburg, Oregon.
12:44She was living in Portland.
12:45Her mother's house is paid for, so she's inherited the house, so she's got a place to live while she
12:50figures out what she's going to do next.
12:52And she was working in publishing.
12:55And while she's cleaning up her mom's stuff, she finds this box that's locked, and she has to go hunting
13:03for the key.
13:04But she finds it, opens it up, and there are four journals in there that are bound so that if,
13:11like, if they get wet or something,
13:13they're bound in this vellum or whatever you call it that keeps them dry.
13:19And she starts reading the first one, and she enters her three-times great-grandmother's consciousness on the day of
13:29her father's funeral.
13:31So, they're both of them are now full orphans because the other parent died when they were children.
13:40And her three-times great-grandmother, it's 1859, and she is trying to escape this controlling aunt, one of her
13:51only living relatives.
13:53And she's been offered a teaching job in Southern Oregon.
13:57So, she goes on the Oregon Trail to become a teacher.
14:01So, the obvious question, since we were talking about e-books and audio books, is that book available via e
14:11-book and audio book?
14:12It's not available yet for an audio book.
14:18It's really long because it's two timelines.
14:23It's 400 and something pages.
14:25And so, yeah, finding the money to have that done.
14:31Although, I have found some places where it's a little cheaper.
14:35And so, but it is an e-book, and it is a print-on-demand book.
14:41You can get it through Amazon.
14:44Although, we're not quite sure what happened.
14:46Something happened to the way it's printed because it's not cut quite right.
14:55But we're probably going to be publishing Times Echo, which is the sequel to it,
15:01where both women are involved in the suffrage movements of their time.
15:06And probably going to publish that through a different publisher, independent, you know, help independent publishers and print-on-demand
15:18service so that it's better.
15:21You don't want to go Kindle Direct, which then allows you to use Amazon's virtual voice, the AI, to create
15:31an audio book right on the system, free of charge currently.
15:37Well, I haven't explored that yet because I'm also writing another book, a memoir, Everything I Need to Know About
15:47Being Human, I Learned from Movies.
15:52And it's about my parents.
15:57My father had dyslexia, so, you know, he could read, but reading out loud was difficult.
16:02My mom worked full-time.
16:03And so, we did movie night for the story and analysis.
16:10And that's how I got involved in theater and, you know.
16:16So, and writing.
16:20So, that one is closer to being published than my memoir.
16:25I mean, than Times Echo.
16:27So, but, yeah.
16:30And I'm, I have to learn how to market them.
16:33So, I've been busy with that.
16:34Plus, I have a podcast.
16:36Story Power is my podcast.
16:38And I have a YouTube channel with my sister.
16:41So, I'm a little bit up to here.
16:45Yeah.
16:46With stuff to do.
16:48Yeah.
16:48Well, those are next on my list to get into.
16:51Your podcast is called what again?
16:55Story Hyphen Power.
16:57Story Power.
16:58Story Power.
16:58Is it a show you generally have other authors on then?
17:03Oh, I talk to authors.
17:05Most of them are authors.
17:07But I talk to filmmakers.
17:09I talk to musicians.
17:11I talk to visual artists.
17:13I talk to people who help authors or creative people.
17:18Like I talked to a financial planner who could, you know, hopefully creative people listening
17:26could go get his help planning for their future.
17:30Because that's a hard thing for creatives sometimes.
17:34I've talked to, oh gosh, I've talked to just a whole bunch of people from around the world
17:42because of Podmatch.
17:44And yeah, so it's six years old, a little over six years old now.
17:50And yeah, it's been really fun.
17:53Well, full disclosure, since you mentioned Podmatch, I often mention them on the show.
17:59I make no bones about, I use Podmatch as a way to connect with potential guests.
18:07That is indeed where we connected.
18:10That is where we found each other.
18:12So full disclosure on that.
18:14Did the YouTubing exist before the podcasting?
18:20Like I put behind the scene video versions of the show on BitChute, Brideon, YouTube, Rumble,
18:35and Daily Motion out of France.
18:37Although I indeed had a YouTube channel goes back before this show.
18:44Oh, my ADHD guy.
18:46Oh, but primarily carried over 40 plus audio channels.
18:53Did your YouTube, where did the YouTube come in before or after the podcasting started?
19:00It was after.
19:02The podcast started in July of 2020 when we were all in lockdown.
19:08And I was-
19:10A lot of people started podcasts.
19:13Yeah, I had been thinking about doing it for quite some time.
19:17But when COVID hit and I was teaching at the college at the time.
19:20So for the second half of the semester, we were teaching via Zoom.
19:28And so I learned how to use Zoom.
19:31And that's when I said, oh, you know what?
19:34In the summertime, I could start my podcast.
19:36So my husband, who's a really techie guy, helped me, you know, think about how often did I want to
19:41do it?
19:42And what, you know, all the little things you have to think about when you're making a podcast.
19:47I'm not going to go into that whole thing.
19:49And then it was maybe three years in or four years in, I decided, oh, you know what?
19:55I should use the videos that I create with Zoom and put them on.
20:03So, but I had like three years worth that didn't have videos.
20:07So what I did was I started the YouTube channel and I went back to the very first.
20:14And I just used pictures of the people that were talking, me and the person at my guest.
20:22And then I used my StoryPower logo for the video part.
20:26And then, I don't know why I didn't think of this, but I think it was when I started my
20:34fifth year.
20:35I said, you know, I've got these YouTube videos.
20:37I mean, I've got these Zoom videos.
20:39So that's when I started using the Zoom videos.
20:42So that's only been a year or so.
20:44But yeah, so I just recorded my 161st episode.
20:52Or maybe I just published my 161st episode today.
20:57And yeah, so that has been going for about three years.
21:06And I publish it on my website and I publish it through Libs and they disseminate it to the, you
21:12know, various.
21:13Yeah.
21:13And then I publish it on YouTube.
21:15And then the Classic Cinema with the Sage Sisters YouTube channel, I started, it'll be two years this coming February.
21:25So it's a lot younger.
21:30We're recording, I think we're recording our 45th, 43rd episode today.
21:36And so it's just every other week, one is a Story Power, one is a Classic Cinema, and it just
21:43goes every other Wednesday in rotation.
21:47And so, and then I try to publish every other week on my Patreon when Story Power publishes and talk
21:58about my writing or talk about the podcast or, you know, that kind of thing.
22:03So I'm kind of busy.
22:04Yeah, full disclosure again, my behind the scenes video and the video channels for my show, indeed, are Zoom.
22:16We are talking via Zoom now.
22:19Yeah.
22:20Yeah, right.
22:21I just find it, it's so simple.
22:25It is.
22:27A lot of podcasters, and I touch on some of the options in my podcast and quick start guidebook for
22:40those looking to start a podcast.
22:43Yeah, good for you.
22:44There's StreamYard and Restream and endless.
22:50Riverside.
22:51Riverside, I'm not a fan of Riverside, though, because unless if you've got specific computer equipment, they're not allowing people
23:02to project on the green screen anymore.
23:06Oh, well, I don't, I mean, I have, when I'm a guest, I have gone to those.
23:13But, yeah, I don't know really anything about all of those.
23:17I already knew how to use GarageBand and iMovie because I would videotape my actors, and then I would use
23:26iMovie to produce the movie.
23:28And then I had a YouTube channel, but I switched it to StoryPower at some point.
23:36And, but I would publish those, and then it was like only the people who had the link.
23:43So the students could share the link with their parents or their friends, you know, to see them in their
23:50acting scenes.
23:52And, and I, so I learned how to use both, both of those services, GarageBand and iMovie.
23:59And so it was kind of easy transition, you know, for producing the YouTube videos.
24:09Yeah, I use VideoPad by NCH.
24:14I was to edit my shows priorly using Appli and Technologies Splitter software.
24:24I go into that in the podcast and Quick Start Guys because, indeed, there are a lot of options out
24:31there being the point here.
24:33It's a question of what can you get up learning the quickest and what is easier for you and what
24:43is less cost for you.
24:46Because, of course, every podcast, like this podcast, I'm on disability.
24:51So this podcast is on a shoestring budget.
24:57Hence why I use Zoom rather than pay for one of those other studio operations.
25:05Right.
25:06Well, yeah, we're, both of us are retards.
25:10So mine's kind of on a shoestring too.
25:12But, yeah, iMovie and GarageBand came with the operating system for the Mac.
25:19So I didn't have to pay for that.
25:21There you go.
25:22There you go.
25:24Yeah.
25:24Part of the operating system.
25:25So, yeah.
25:26That's why I originally used the Appli and Technology software I already had as a former IT guy on my
25:37system.
25:38So that I could, indeed, get up and running lower cost.
25:44Right.
25:45And I go into that in podcasting, quick start guide.
25:49I argue people start slow.
25:55You can always build.
25:57You can always buy the more expensive packages or services as you go.
26:06And you're sure you're at least even remotely decent at being able to do it.
26:14And you recognize, yes, this is something I want to continue to do rather than somebody spending dropping $10,000
26:23to create a studio out of the bedroom and then discover, oh, I really don't like doing this.
26:32Well, and we live in the country, so it's already quiet.
26:35So I just, in my office, my husband's office is right next door.
26:40We have a four-bedroom house.
26:42Two of them are offices.
26:44But the only other thing that I had to spend money on was the headset, which I now only use
26:50for editing, and my desktop microphone when I decided to go this.
26:59So when I'm recording, I use my AirPods and my microphone, but when I'm editing, I use my headset.
27:06But those were very inexpensive.
27:08I got them on Amazon for like $25 or something like that.
27:12Ah, I footed $250 at Best Buy for the Razer Gamer headset I'm wearing to get a little better quality
27:23sound and ability to hear.
27:27But again, you don't, $250 as opposed to a couple thousand dollar boom mic is a big discrepancy in cost.
27:41Yeah.
27:42And my husband's really good at doing the research about what, you know, what are the good things and how
27:48much money it costs.
27:49And all this miniaturized stuff, like you said, iPods, I mean, the quality of this smaller stuff, as opposed to
28:0025, 30 years ago, people, you know, people that got into podcasts generally were former radio people.
28:12So they automatically carried over with them, the big studio microphones, but all this smaller, newer technology has improved to
28:26that quality level.
28:28That's right.
28:29Yeah.
28:30Yeah.
28:31Okay, we've been talking with Lucinda Sage Midgordon, and that's E-N, not A-N.
28:40Again, on the video, or O-N, on the video, you'll see it scrawled at the bottom.
28:47Where can people find you if they want to reach out to you?
28:52My website, it's probably going to be on a different platform.
28:57It's on WordPress right now.
29:00We're in the process of revamping it for my marketing, for my new books.
29:06But it's Sage Woman Chronicles is the title of the page, but you can find it at www.sagewoman.life.
29:22And then I'm on several social medias, but mostly I only pay attention to Facebook and LinkedIn.
29:30And those, you can just find me using my name, Lucinda Sage Midgordon.
29:35And I do have a Facebook group for Classic Cinema with the Sage Sisters.
29:41I think we have about 50 or 55 people following now, where we just will post about the classic movies.
29:51The members post about the classic movies that they're watching.
29:54And, you know, we have little conversations about them.
29:58And then I also post Celeste's and my conversation about whatever movie that we're talking about that episode there.
30:08So, yeah, LinkedIn and Facebook are the two main ones that I pay attention to.
30:12Okay, but sagewoman.life.
30:16Sagewoman.life.
30:18All right.
30:19And I'm like, I've got two different main websites.
30:25Joseph M. Lunder.us, Illumify Media put up for me using WordPress.
30:32I maintain I'm not a fan of WordPress.
30:37I don't like, I think it's too clunky.
30:40You've got to be too technical.
30:43My TerrorStrikes.info, my primary best-selling novel, has a site that I manage using Wix because it's the WYSIWYG,
30:56right?
30:56You just drag and drop what you want where you want it kind of thing.
31:03It's a lot, even though I've got formal IT background training, I go back to the days where websites, and
31:11I used to code them, and everything was HTML.
31:15You had to spell it all out to code it to get it to appear.
31:21But these days, WYSIWYG, what you say is what you get, interfaces like Wix allows for, make it so much
31:31easier for anybody to quickly get up and running.
31:35Yeah, well, all of a sudden, I'm blanking on the one that my husband, because he has a website, too.
31:43We're going to use a different service.
31:46I can't remember what it is now, right?
31:48My brain, I'm old.
31:52And I've been very, very busy, so.
31:56Right, right.
31:58There's only so much head space to recall.
32:02It's in there somewhere.
32:04It's just not currently accessible.
32:07I have that happen a lot to me.
32:10I understand.
32:11So, thank you, Lucinda Sage McGordon, for coming on.
32:16I appreciate the chance to chat with you.
32:19Oh, thank you, Joseph.
32:20I've had lots of fun.
32:22Bye-bye.
32:24Bye-bye.
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32:57God bless.
32:58Love you all.