00:00bandwagon, but Hunter's been pretty good too.
00:02Guys, you don't hit, you don't win.
00:03You sit here and talk about pitching changes and everything else,
00:06but White Sox put the ball in play, and we didn't.
00:09They had three hits with runners in scoring position.
00:11We had zero.
00:12How important is Steven Vogt to this organization?
00:17That sounds like an asinine question to ask,
00:21but last week we did a story that the Seattle Times,
00:24they parted ways with their manager.
00:27Their manager had been with the organization for a very long time,
00:30went out there, told everybody,
00:31I'm done being the manager, and everybody was sad.
00:36And one of the names that were bandied about by the Seattle Times
00:39was Steven Vogt.
00:41Wait, that's our guy.
00:42That's our guy.
00:43And they led that story, that part of that story off with,
00:46this is highly unlikely.
00:48Those were the words that were used, highly unlikely.
00:52But last night, after they lost,
00:54and they're now down 0-2 in this series,
00:57there were way more people than I'm comfortable with,
01:01including some people who are personal friends.
01:04Hayden brought it up.
01:07Hayden Grove.
01:08Our own America's Got Talent contestant.
01:12Was it America's Got Talent or American Eyes?
01:15The Voice.
01:15Damn it.
01:16Judas Priest, I can't get him all the time.
01:17The Masked Singer.
01:19He was like, basically, if Seattle wants him,
01:22Seattle can have him.
01:22I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:24I know we're angry.
01:26Let's hold on a second here.
01:30Like, there are two men.
01:32I know we're mad.
01:34I know we're mad.
01:36We can't start saying things we can't take back.
01:40Yeah, I thought about that afterwards.
01:41This is, guys, this would not be,
01:44I know I said the same thing about Jose Ramirez,
01:46so I've got to find a different way to say it,
01:48but I'm just going to say it.
01:48Like, would we even be complaining about the postseason right now
01:52if they didn't have Steven Vogt?
01:53Like, there's other,
01:54I'm sure there's other guys who could do the right emotional buttons
02:00and maybe get them.
02:01I get it that he's not the end-all, be-all,
02:03but it's like, man, you know, you got a hot hand there,
02:06and being so flippant about that probably isn't the best idea.
02:09I hate to say this because it's going to sound like a loser mentality,
02:13but our managers right now,
02:15the way that this team is financed every year,
02:19they need to have a particular set of skills,
02:22which is getting the team through 162.
02:25That's the most important thing,
02:27and I know people are going to say,
02:27no, it's not the most important thing.
02:28The most important thing is the playoffs,
02:31but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion
02:33that every other manager could have had this team in the playoffs
02:35the last few years, even in this division.
02:37I do not think that is the case.
02:38He is the seventh highest paid manager in baseball.
02:42I think he's one spot behind Aaron Boone.
02:45I think we did that last week.
02:47I looked into it a little further.
02:48If you put it on a graph,
02:50the salaries have come down in Major League Baseball.
02:53For managers.
02:54Is it because more teams are cheaper than ever before,
02:58losing their local TV deals?
02:59That's part of it.
02:59It's also because they think they're interchangeable.
03:02Yeah.
03:02They would rather spend that money elsewhere.
03:04But with the Guardians,
03:07we're not going to spend that money elsewhere.
03:10So other than outside of making sure that we can pluck talent
03:15from the Dominican and Latin America,
03:17that's important to us.
03:18We do spend resources there.
03:20The issue is now so do the Dodgers,
03:22so do these other teams.
03:23They have more money to do it.
03:24But we're going to make sure that our manager gives us an edge.
03:30And he has given us an edge.
03:32That's a Paul Dolan criticism.
03:33That's not necessarily Stephen Vaux criticism.
03:35They spend $4 million a year on Stephen Vaux,
03:38according to SpotTrack or wherever Owen found it.
03:40Front Office Sports, I think, had the actual lineup.
03:43You're spending $4 million a year on a manager.
03:46They'd rather spend $4 million a year on a manager
03:48than $20 million a year on another bat,
03:49which I know will infuriate everybody and that's not an excuse.
03:54But that's the way that they've done business.
03:56Okay, well, we've done the Paul Dolan shows many times before
03:59and we'll do them again, I'm sure,
04:00before he's all done being the owner of the Cleveland Guardians.
04:02Which, by the way, I do say every time,
04:04I know you get mad at me,
04:05I think they're the worst shows.
04:06I think they're so boring.
04:07I think we all understand.
04:08Well, they don't go anywhere because he doesn't.
04:09And he's not selling the team.
04:11Well, he is selling the team.
04:12Well, eventually, but.
04:12But I've had really bad news for people.
04:15The next guy is going to run it exactly like Dolan does.
04:18Well, to a degree.
04:20You know how I know that?
04:21Because he has not infused the team with a bunch of cash
04:24to go get free agents.
04:25He's going to run it like a business.
04:27Okay.
04:28Just like Dolan does.
04:28But you and I have been lockstep on this.
04:31Like, he is.
04:32Like, he's not going to treat,
04:34I don't think he's going to treat the Cleveland Guardians
04:37like the New York Yankees and just overspend.
04:39Though, honestly, the way that Dan,
04:41now I know that that's a cap league,
04:42but the way that Dan Gilbert treats the Cavs.
04:45Like, Dan Gilbert would just spend whatever.
04:47It's an interesting situation there.
04:50I think Jimmy has them if he didn't have a cap,
04:52would just spend whatever.
04:53He is, yeah.
04:54The Guardians are different.
04:55And we've been through the family trust before,
04:58and if you don't know, like, he can't just go into the,
05:00he can't just do Scrooge McDuck and spin the wheel
05:03and walk in there and take whatever out.
05:05The MSG cable vision money is not his.
05:07No.
05:07It's not his.
05:08That's not how families work.
05:09You got the brother and the sister,
05:11and basically, from what I hear,
05:12they're not really interested in having the team anymore themselves,
05:14so he's, like, still interested in having the team,
05:17and they got to turn their keys on things
05:19before they go spending money,
05:20but that's a bogged-down conversation
05:23that people are bored by
05:24because they don't like the conversation
05:26about this team not spending money,
05:28which is the crux of everybody's problem.
05:32But because of that,
05:33it makes Steve and Vogt more valuable to this organization.
05:37And, yeah, like, I hear Owen.
05:39I didn't fight back on Owen.
05:42Like, all right, 91 pitches.
05:43I was a little bit, I raised my eyebrows yesterday.
05:46I raised my eyebrows that he came out into the sixth inning.
05:49I also know that it's a must-win game,
05:52and I'm not going to sit there and disagree with Owen
05:55because I think Owen's right, actually.
05:56I was just surprised that he was back out there for the sixth inning.
06:00That pointed out, would we be in that position without Steve and Vogt?
06:04We wouldn't.
06:04Go ahead, Owen.
06:05What were you going to say?
06:05Well, that's the whole thing.
06:06Either don't start him that inning
06:09or let him go and see if he can get that runner out
06:12because either way, he took himself off the pitcher of record, right,
06:17with that runner getting to first.
06:18So it was a 2-1 game.
06:20Yes.
06:21He couldn't win the game anymore unless he got himself out of it
06:24or Sobrowski got him out of it, but he didn't.
06:27I think I felt the same way.
06:29I mean, Sobrowski's been banged up this year.
06:31Was I the only person who started getting a weird feeling in their stomach
06:34when Gavin Williams walked off?
06:37I couldn't have been the only one.
06:38I think basically a lot of people in the stadium probably felt the same way.
06:41And if they didn't feel that way, they were hoping.
06:44We've had a better bullpen probably than what we want to recognize,
06:48but we don't feel great about this bullpen.
06:49But we also don't have Andrew Miller.
06:51And actually, the numbers behind the bullpen, you know,
06:54for about a month and a half there towards the end of the year,
06:57we had one of the better bullpens in baseball again.
06:58I understand that.
06:59So the problem is not –
07:01But I don't think that that buys a lot of currency with a lot of fans.
07:03No, no, it doesn't.
07:04Here's where I disagree.
07:05Gavin Williams does.
07:06Boy, that's where I disagree with Matt,
07:08who watches so much more and knows so much more about this stuff than I do.
07:13He has –
07:14He says that the bullpen has earned it over the course of the year.
07:18And I just think the postseason is just so different from the regular season
07:22that I wasn't ready to punt this into a new baseball game.
07:25I wanted the old baseball game.
07:27And I've talked about how in the playoffs,
07:29these games go one way,
07:31and the minute you depart to the bullpen,
07:34you kind of cross your fingers and hope.
07:37And say, I hope it's still that game that I was enjoying when we had the lead.
07:42But then it turns into the lineup conversation
07:44because why did they basically have a bullpen game yesterday
07:47and they did it the other day as well,
07:49and they're up 2-0 in the series?
07:51You know, that's where –
07:52Again, one hand is going to wash the other here.
07:55But I think that saying,
07:56well, Stephen Volk can just go to Seattle,
07:59that is not going to fix our situation.
08:01I don't believe that this organization would be in the position that it's in.
08:06Like, we looked at Terry Francona,
08:08and, you know, I kicked around an idea,
08:11and it doesn't look like I'll be able to.
08:13Like, if we get back to an ALCS,
08:14if we get to a World Series,
08:16does that change the way we see Tito Francona?
08:19The Stephen Volk change –
08:21like, there was a time –
08:23Tito Francona was absolutely Teflon here.
08:25You could not get on the radio
08:26and say nasty things about Tito Francona.
08:29I'm talking about callers.
08:30Like, we would shoot them down.
08:32And what will we say?
08:33A lot of the same things we're saying about Stephen Volk.
08:36Would we be here without this guy?
08:38Would we be able to develop these guys without that guy?
08:41Like, his job is much more hands-on
08:45than what a lot of managers' jobs are,
08:47especially in markets that we're competing against.
08:50Like, those same things are being said about Stephen Volk
08:54that were said about Tito Francona.
08:56And so if this team were to continue –
08:59like, if they get their head out of places
09:01and come back in a 2-2 series,
09:03and they end up winning this series,
09:05and you go back to the ALCS –
09:07I know that we're presuming a lot here.
09:08We've got to win tomorrow, for crying out loud,
09:10before we start dreaming all that other stuff.
09:12But if you do do that,
09:14then what are we saying about Stephen Volk then?
09:16Like, a lot of this is reactionary hot air.
09:20And it's tough to do that in the postseason
09:22where you only have that many games
09:24compared to 162 over 180 days.
09:27But I guarantee you what Stephen Volk would say is,
09:29what was that payroll in 2017?
09:32$130 million?
09:34Compared to 76?
09:34Compared to 70 now?
09:36Boy, I'd like to have another $60 million
09:38in payroll and players to turn to
09:41because when I look at my lineups,
09:44I'm deciding between who?
09:46David Fry?
09:47I mean, you know, Bailey at catcher?
09:51Like, I'm sure he'd be arguing,
09:53hey, it'd be nice to have another $60 million.
09:54I could go have that Japanese slugger
09:57who got paid $17 million this year for –
10:00you know, that's just part of the –
10:02it's hard to compare the two.
10:03Because in 2017, we went out and got Edwin Encarnacion.
10:06You know, I think, was that the J. Bruce year too?
10:09That was at the – yeah, at the waiver deadline.
10:12And at the year before, we got Andrew Miller to help us out.
10:16So, look, they did make some significant trades at the deadline.
10:20They did.
10:21And I think our lineup actually kind of took a step.
10:25But is that still a playoff lineup?
10:27And there is a big difference between playoff lineups and regular season.
10:31No, you're right about that.
10:31You know, just get through 162 lineups.
10:34We are also being – well, is this part of the reason that Stephen Vought has been successful?
10:38We are being accused of high crimes here.
10:40This is courtesy of the bench podcast – the stretch podcast.
10:45Courtesy of Barstool.
10:47This is a man who calls White Sox Dave.
10:49And apparently, did they call the league or did they call the organization of the White Sox about us?
10:55They called – I believe he says it in here, but Sean Burke, who was the pitcher yesterday.
10:59Okay, here we go.
11:01Nobody can say that White Sox Dave is not doing his part.
11:03He thought they were stealing signs at one point.
11:05I didn't think I was right.
11:07It was like the fifth inning.
11:08Whenever the Guardians had a guy on second, they were tapping their helmet.
11:11For breaking pitches.
11:12And every pitch the White Sox threw, they were holding on or whatever.
11:15They weren't swinging.
11:15You text Burke middle of the game.
11:17He's like, they're stealing the signs.
11:18Well, I knew Burke was out of the game.
11:20He pitched a game before.
11:21So, I thought he might have his phone on him.
11:23Then I hit up Vassal.
11:24And then I hit up the front office exec.
11:27All three of them got back to me right away.
11:29And they're like, yeah, we got this.
11:30We saw it too.
11:31But the thing was, they didn't call time.
11:33I wasn't the only one that did it.
11:34Jordan Lazowski, I know you're listening.
11:36He did the exact same thing.
11:37He works for Sox on 35th.
11:39And he did the exact same thing.
11:41He hit up the Sox too.
11:42Because they didn't call time and fix it immediately.
11:44And a couple of those times, they had bases loaded.
11:46If they know what pitch is coming, that's an issue.
11:48And they didn't call time and fix it like middle of the inning,
11:51like they should have.
11:52But it got fixed eventually.
11:53So, yeah, I did play my part a little bit.
11:57That begs the question to me.
11:58That's a lot.
12:00How many text messages were sent to both players and management
12:05and organizational figures in the matter of like 10 minutes?
12:08It's not like the NFL.
12:09They can have their phones on them.
12:10Yeah, it is very different.
12:12I think.
12:12I think.
12:12But would the Guardians appreciate that if they gave their phone numbers
12:17out to us in mass like that?
12:19Or would they find it to be a detriment?
12:21Because if those guys are texting them about that,
12:23what else are they hitting up, guys, during the playoffs?
12:27And I believe they were referring to game one.
12:30Yeah.
12:30When we had the.
12:31Well, we had so many base runners.
12:32So, obviously, there was so much sign stealing going on.
12:34What, do we have three hits?
12:35Well.
12:35Do we have any?
12:37Yeah, we had bases loaded and we were stealing the signs
12:39and then we scored zero runs.
12:40Right.
12:41And it's not golf.
12:41Is it not part of the game?
12:44If you're not doing a good enough job.
12:45Point this to the Astros thing, the big difference was they were obviously
12:49using video and video coordinators and things like that.
12:54If part of the game has always been.
12:57Yeah.
12:57The guy on second peeking in on what the catcher is doing.
13:01That's why they invented pitch calm.
13:03They also.
13:04There was a story.
13:05I don't remember what team it was.
13:06Maybe the Orioles.
13:07They told the Guardians after they had played.
13:10It was the Mets, actually.
13:12It was the Mets.
13:12Yeah.
13:12And they swept us, if I'm not mistaken.
13:14After they swept us.
13:15Hey, man, your pitch comms are so loud, we can hear everything that's going on
13:19right now.
13:20Which is insane.
13:21Yeah, so.
13:23Well, I, listen.
13:25And, yeah, one's my favorite team and the other one I really don't like.
13:29Like, that's a far cry from Jose Altuve allegedly being wired up like he's in
13:34the departed for crying out loud.
13:36Like, I think that that's a big difference, don't you?
13:39Yes.
13:40But if they're, if they're stealing signs, I guess we've got to find a better way to
13:44steal signs then, because we've got to get it going tomorrow.
13:47I mean, I'll take anything.
13:48I will, I will, anything short of stealing people, I will do to try to get back in
13:55this series right now, because this is terrible.
13:57This is terrible.
13:59All right.
14:00Coming up at nine o'clock, Daniel Yafusi going to join us on the show.
14:03Do we have a better quarterback situation than we realize?
14:08Tell me more.
14:08Ah, John will tell you more during the neutral zone with Rat Boy and the Hog in five minutes.
