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Why Africa is Silent Inside BRICS? On Think BRICS, we unpack BRICS Africa dynamics, dedollarization, and BRICS geopolitics with Gustavo de Carvalho from SAIIA.
In this exclusive in-studio discussion on Think BRICS, senior researcher Gustavo de Carvalho from the South African Institute of International Affairs (SAIIA) breaks down the true geopolitical realities facing Africa in BRICS. Following major milestone talks, our conversation explores why the push away from Western financial systems is less about immediate dedollarization and far more about realistic risk diversification and economic sovereignty across developing nations. Rather than launching a hasty common BRICS currency, member states are quietly prioritizing local currency settlements, cross-border payment integration, and domestic institutional resilience to safeguard against a weaponized global financial architecture.
As the historic BRICS expansion incorporates Egypt and Ethiopia alongside South Africa, with nations like Nigeria and Uganda engaging as partners, the critical question of unified representation emerges. We analyze why African member states currently lack a consolidated continental strategy, the urgent necessity to align bloc payment mechanisms with the African Union and the Pan-African Payment and Settlement System (PAPSS), and how non-alignment functions as active strategic autonomy rather than passive neutrality amidst intensifying Western diplomatic pressure and G20 tensions.
While this analysis unpacks overarching BRICS geopolitics, Africa geopolitics, and multipolar world dynamics, this episode does not examine bilateral military treaties, armed conflict interventions, or tactical defense deployments across developing nations. It does not provide financial or speculative investment advice regarding foreign exchange trading, commercial banking products, or crypto-asset alternatives to the US dollar. Furthermore, this broadcast does not audit domestic legislative party politics inside Egypt, Ethiopia, or South Africa, nor does it present official ministerial policy communiqués on behalf of the African Union or the BRICS summit secretariat.
#BRICS #AfricaGeopolitics #GlobalSouth
00:00 – Gustavo de Carvalho from SAIIA on BRICS Africa Geopolitics
01:07 – Dedollarization vs Risk Management: Why BRICS Currency Is Not the Real Strategy
04:00 – Information Sovereignty: Combating Western Media Narratives Across the Global South
06:14 – Credibility Over Technology: How Developing Nations Build Independent Platforms
07:27 – Why Africa Lacks a Unified Strategy in the BRICS Expansion Era
08:44 – African Union & PAPSS Alignment: Integrating Cross-Border BRICS Economy Payments
10:00 – South Africa BRICS Foreign Policy: Strategic Autonomy vs Western Alignment Pressure
11:51 – G20 Tensions and the Multipolar World: Navigating US Diplomatic Fallout
14:21 – Institutionalizing BRICS: Bureaucracy vs Flexibility in Developing Nations Governance
16:51 – Final Th
In this exclusive in-studio discussion on Think BRICS, senior researcher Gustavo de Carvalho from the South African Institute of International Affairs (SAIIA) breaks down the true geopolitical realities facing Africa in BRICS. Following major milestone talks, our conversation explores why the push away from Western financial systems is less about immediate dedollarization and far more about realistic risk diversification and economic sovereignty across developing nations. Rather than launching a hasty common BRICS currency, member states are quietly prioritizing local currency settlements, cross-border payment integration, and domestic institutional resilience to safeguard against a weaponized global financial architecture.
As the historic BRICS expansion incorporates Egypt and Ethiopia alongside South Africa, with nations like Nigeria and Uganda engaging as partners, the critical question of unified representation emerges. We analyze why African member states currently lack a consolidated continental strategy, the urgent necessity to align bloc payment mechanisms with the African Union and the Pan-African Payment and Settlement System (PAPSS), and how non-alignment functions as active strategic autonomy rather than passive neutrality amidst intensifying Western diplomatic pressure and G20 tensions.
While this analysis unpacks overarching BRICS geopolitics, Africa geopolitics, and multipolar world dynamics, this episode does not examine bilateral military treaties, armed conflict interventions, or tactical defense deployments across developing nations. It does not provide financial or speculative investment advice regarding foreign exchange trading, commercial banking products, or crypto-asset alternatives to the US dollar. Furthermore, this broadcast does not audit domestic legislative party politics inside Egypt, Ethiopia, or South Africa, nor does it present official ministerial policy communiqués on behalf of the African Union or the BRICS summit secretariat.
#BRICS #AfricaGeopolitics #GlobalSouth
00:00 – Gustavo de Carvalho from SAIIA on BRICS Africa Geopolitics
01:07 – Dedollarization vs Risk Management: Why BRICS Currency Is Not the Real Strategy
04:00 – Information Sovereignty: Combating Western Media Narratives Across the Global South
06:14 – Credibility Over Technology: How Developing Nations Build Independent Platforms
07:27 – Why Africa Lacks a Unified Strategy in the BRICS Expansion Era
08:44 – African Union & PAPSS Alignment: Integrating Cross-Border BRICS Economy Payments
10:00 – South Africa BRICS Foreign Policy: Strategic Autonomy vs Western Alignment Pressure
11:51 – G20 Tensions and the Multipolar World: Navigating US Diplomatic Fallout
14:21 – Institutionalizing BRICS: Bureaucracy vs Flexibility in Developing Nations Governance
16:51 – Final Th
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NewsTranscript
00:00digitalization africa's rule in bricks and the fight for information sovereignty our guest is
00:07gustavo de carvalho from south african institute of international affairs welcome back to think
00:16bricks finally in person thank you so much it's really great to talk to you guys in person this
00:23time thank you so let's go straight to the point uh recently we came back from from india from
00:29new delhi where everyone knows it was a brick summit india and russia downplayed the realization
00:39and the final declaration mentions on the local currencies in your last conversation you said
00:46the strategy isn't the polarization it's risk management in general but it looks like bricks
00:54is building a system to diddle rise while still using the dollar so is that the real strategy or
01:02and is it more effective as a loud version from what i understand and and and i think what bricks
01:10countries have been able to do is really a process of diversification of risks and because ideally when
01:19we're looking into a process of creation of a common currency what we're actually looking for is a
01:24degree of complementarity between economies that at this stage we don't really see that within bricks
01:30our monetary policies are very very diverse our own international integration is very diverse
01:37there is a reason why countries still utilize the us dollar it's cheap it's widely accepted it's fast
01:46and that's precisely i think where bricks countries are looking towards tackling the issues not really
01:54to replace the us dollar but to create complementary tools and mechanisms that enable a better integration
02:01between our countries that enable us to in a space where we identify the us dollar not being a global
02:09common good it's a tool and it's a political tool often being utilized as such so when you start creating
02:17mechanisms that reduces the need for strong foreign currencies that create specific mechanisms that allow
02:25us to it when we don't have that much currency or when we simply trying to reduce costs around that
02:32settling trade with our local currencies for a group as diverse as bricks tends to have a much
02:39stronger effect but for that to be effective it requires time because our banking systems needs to
02:47be integrated we need to figure out some very basic questions what do we do if south africa has
02:55billions and billions of rubles in our accounts if we're not trading as much with one another so we
03:01need to define and decide all of those things before even we start talking about the creation of a currency
03:07and for me that is a much stronger space where if we're talking about multi-polarity and we're talking
03:13about an increasing rise of different power centers we then need to find this diversified mechanisms that
03:21strengthen our own currencies and perhaps at some point looking to other mechanisms but right now
03:27it's not really what is at the core of the discussion the core of the discussion is let's diversify
03:32options let's reduce risks and let's create mechanisms that allow us to deal with a very
03:39weaponized global economy in a much more sustainable way for us i see thank you um you have argued also
03:48that swapping providers without building up domestic institutions doesn't create sovereignty
03:55it's just changes who you depend on exactly um does that apply to media too last week at uh we
04:05attended
04:05dialogue about fakes in moscow it was an event and we talked about needing critical thinking to to beat
04:13western uh fake news not just count information do you agree with that i think we need to create a
04:21system and mechanisms where diversity of sources are privileged uh to a large degree i think where
04:29we are now and i think internationally is that we we have this dichotomy on the one hand there is
04:36a very
04:37specific range of information providers and a diversification of sources of information through
04:43social media and the internet the key thing here is that how do we strengthen mechanisms that allow our
04:51own societies to have a more varied uh approaches towards where the information comes from what are the
05:01mechanisms that we have to to question where the information comes from and of course it becomes much
05:08harder in the age of rise of ai tools of deep fakes that in addition to that how do we
05:16ensure that our
05:17own local perspectives are then uh strengthened a lot of that has to do with how do we empower our
05:27media
05:27in a space where media houses all over the world are losing resources are not well equipped ensuring that
05:34there is critical thinking around the population that that we understand that these varieties of sources
05:40can bring different perspectives but it's not shouldn't be always a debate about the truth
05:45shouldn't be a debate always about the facts but it should really uh enhance our own ability of engaging
05:53critically of the different perspectives on the implication of those facts on the implications of
05:58of those different elements uh let me ask you um if the global south builds its own platform what needs
06:09to
06:09come first technology funding or credibility credibility always i i think the the challenge is that is who is
06:19speaking on our behalf what are the mechanisms that we have to ensure that there is the ability of the
06:27public to engage with the funding as an important enabler for that and the technology as also as a vehicle
06:36as an as a mechanism it feels to me at times in this very convoluted world that we live in
06:43that issues
06:44around technology comes first and this massive spread of different outlets may not necessarily be addressing
06:52what are the demands and the needs because right now what we have is a space that tends to confuse
06:58more than
06:58actually inform and i think this is important this is important for us to really reflect about what is
07:06even the space in which we want and need to engage in debates that is not overwhelmed by a rise
07:17of a
07:17technology technology technology that is not really uh addressing what the needs of credibility are
07:25thanks um you have written about diversification without coordination in africa's brick strategy more
07:35african countries are joining but there is still no mechanism to coordinate their positions
07:43is that real influence or just a seat at the table where others set their agenda and what does breaks
07:51offer africa that's actually tangible for ordinary citizens i think this for me is the most important
07:59question that african countries that are part of bricks need to ask themselves since 2023 south africa was
08:06joined by egypt and ethiopia as full members and of course uganda and nigeria as partner countries
08:12however we cannot really say that there is an african identity within bricks
08:19countries to speak on their own behalves and i think would be naive of me to expect that
08:26they would agree on everything in every single issue but i think the creation of mechanisms that ensure
08:32that bricks is not only a diversification form but really that provides the opportunity for these
08:39members to identify what are our common issues here how do we ensure that discussions around systems of
08:45payments in bricks for instance are well aligned with continental discussions towards the creation of
08:51the pan-african payment and settlement system how do we ensure that some of these views that are
08:58collective are effectively pursued as a group rather than always individual members to a large degree we should
09:06not expect that these three members to be the representatives of africa they are not they're
09:12representing themselves but finding the spaces finding the areas in which bricks can be beneficial to
09:19africa and what can africa demand from this group because otherwise we will continue with the perspectives
09:26that bricks has something to offer to africa rather than the other way around we need to think
09:32clearly about what are the spaces in which we can operate as a grouping what are the the mechanisms that
09:39we can develop
09:39but particularly when do we speak with a common voice and so far we have many voices around the table
09:47that
09:47perhaps is not the most beneficial way that the consonants can really demand some of those uh uh responses from
09:55the group itself
09:55i see so um now the last question to you you have described south africa's foreign policy not as neutrality
10:05but
10:06as strategic autonomy like a bridge between competing powers if south africa was declared
10:16uh unwelcome as uh unwelcome as this year's g20 and its naval exercises with china russia and iran a public
10:27record
10:29meanwhile the u.s keeps up direct pressure so how sustainable that bridge row when the u.s and global
10:39south
10:39uh both want alignment somehow i think it's perhaps the most important challenge that a country like south
10:50africa faces because when engaging in such a world on the one hand the country wants to keep its own
11:01margin of maneuver it wants to be able to read the world based on its own assessment of benefits of
11:08challenges of history of affinities that may not necessarily be this idea of being aligned to one
11:18side or the other non-alignment as south africa likes to describe its foreign policy in that sense
11:25it's not a statement of neutrality of equidistance of distancing from from from from global uh dynamics
11:33but the challenge with that is that while it's clear that perhaps no global power is that big that is
11:40able
11:41to provide us all of those things that we want and need but the demands for exclusive choices are on
11:47the rise
11:51the issue with the g20 for me is quite symbolic because it shows this friction between south africa and the
12:00united states but also it shows what are some of the risks that exists for everyone in engaging with with
12:08those initiatives because if south africa is a founding member of the g20 suddenly is uninvited to one of
12:16its meetings by one of the members what happens if next year is indonesia mexico russia uk germany this is
12:28not something that only affects south africa but in but it would affect the very credibility and the
12:35expectations of sustainability of groups like an example that may happen to every absolutely and i
12:41think this is where uh members really need to to reflect about what is the reason that the g20 was
12:48created when the g20 is elevated to the level of heads of states as the aftermath of the the financial
12:56crisis of 2008 was primarily because there was an understanding that the level and the depth of that
13:04crisis could not be dealt by western countries alone we are larger economies we're more influential we're
13:12more interconnected with one another and required collective solutions for that and if we start to pick and
13:20choose who do we like who we don't like to be around the table it fundamentally breaks that idea of
13:26credibility of the very
13:28institution that was created that is representative of south africa's attempt of becoming more autonomous
13:35but is also representative of the inability of our international arrangements to even deal with some of the core economic
13:43governance issues that we have on the day um to so many years past since the creation of uh g20
13:52and
13:54so uh g20 lost credibility g7 lost credibility united nations general assembly we may say lost its credibility
14:04isn't it a time for bricks or to institutionalize themselves like seo maybe what what we have just to become
14:17another
14:17platform where credibility still exists this is an important question and very much at the center of the
14:25discussions within bricks the the key question here is whether institutionalization equals formalization do we need a
14:34secretariat to do and and and and i'm not convinced that this is the main value of a group like
14:39bricks
14:40for me the discussion around institutionalization comes with stronger predictability
14:46that there is a better handover between the chairs that there is a better knowledge management from very basic things
14:53like
14:53how do we find all of the declarations and the documentation that has been uh issued over the years
15:00what how do we deal with some of the challenges around reaching consensus i think a group like bricks what
15:09it benefits it's its own fluidity
15:12because what members want and what they pursue in different years can be flexibilized
15:18and when there is the the the feeling that what we need now is the creation of an institution those
15:25institutions can be created
15:26the creation of the new development bank the creation of the contingency reserve arrangements and even the
15:32discussions that we have in our around the creation of systems of payments what we shouldn't really expect
15:38is that this group is going to be a hyper cohesive hyper homogeneous group it's a it's a group that
15:45understands that the fact that we are able to agree to disagree that we are able to see consensus as
15:52a means to
15:54find what our common denominators are and also identify that perhaps bricks is not the perfect
16:00platform to discuss everything that maybe for south african certain issues may be more useful
16:05to engage through the african union not to the southern african development community maybe india
16:11brazil south africa ipsa is more important in certain situations that level of flexibility for some
16:19is seeing perhaps as what makes the group weaker for me is what brings it this trend because it's when
16:26members really feel that this is the right issue for bricks to discuss but we do need for that to
16:32be
16:32more effective more predictability more sustainability and an institutionalization process that does not
16:39necessarily means that we become more formal or more rigid bureaucratic or more bureaucratic precisely on
16:46the way that we are thinking the very effectiveness or not of the group thank you thank you so much
16:53gustavo de caravalli was with us and keep staying with think bricks thank you so much thank you thank you