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00:00:28Transcribed by ESO, translated by —
00:00:58Transcribed by ESO, translated by —
00:01:00Why would you use that particular phrase when referring to an alleged sexual assault?
00:01:06I was talking about the repercussions, not being fun.
00:01:09Being dragged through the mud, not fun.
00:01:14If you were concerned about being dragged through the mud,
00:01:19why would you choose to sue Donald Trump?
00:01:24Because he called me a liar.
00:01:28He called me a liar.
00:01:32And I couldn't let it stand.
00:01:50Transcribed by ESO, translated by —
00:01:51Hi, everybody. I'm E. Jean Carroll, contributing editor to Esquire magazine,
00:01:56and advice columnist at Elle magazine.
00:01:58And this is Ask E. Jean, the only show on television which stands between the American public
00:02:02and the total brink of hysteria.
00:02:05Yes, my dear ones, there's a definite scarcity of 100% genuine high-voltage modern advice today.
00:02:11While getting down on your knees, hickey lips, and thank God, I tell people to do it.
00:02:16E. Jean Carroll, you don't really care who comments on anything, do you?
00:02:19Because, I mean, you comment on everything.
00:02:21Because I was watching, you know.
00:02:23Thank you, honey. Do you mind if I call you, honey?
00:02:24The creature who has any testosterone in his body at all,
00:02:27he is waiting for you to stroke his ego. He is waiting.
00:02:29He has made his decision. He tried another woman, didn't work out.
00:02:33He came running back to you.
00:02:35Strong evidence that he's in love with you.
00:02:37Miss Tracy, y'all, what's going on?
00:02:38Well, I'm 30 years old, and I'm not married.
00:02:41Oh, boy. Good for you. Good for you.
00:02:44You don't have to be married.
00:02:45There's no law that says you have to be 30 and married.
00:02:47Where did you get this stuff?
00:02:49We called in a woman known for her no-nonsense style.
00:02:53E. Jean is going to help you.
00:02:54Do you really enjoy sex?
00:02:56Really enjoy sex?
00:02:58Well, I always thought I did until right then.
00:03:02Show that other part of you.
00:03:03Nobody wants you to be less.
00:03:05I want you to be more.
00:03:07I'm live, cutie pie.
00:03:08I'm live, chinookie pie.
00:03:09And I can tear up your naughtiest problems by the roots that you call me.
00:03:13This is Ask E. Jean.
00:03:16Women, you are fabulous.
00:03:17But for 25 years, you have been writing to me at the Ask E. Jean column.
00:03:23And for 25 years, no matter what problems are driving you crazy, your careers, your wardrobes,
00:03:29your love affairs, your religion, your children, there comes a lie in almost every letter when
00:03:35the cause of your quagmires is revealed.
00:03:39Is it possible to bash men too much?
00:03:43Shouldn't I just strip them all naked and chase them across golf courses and leave lust-maddened
00:03:49flogging welts all over the whole masculine sex, huh?
00:03:51The colossal Ask E. Jean empire would collapse in a week, and most romantic problems would
00:03:59be solved if I could just make women understand one thing.
00:04:05You are precious.
00:04:15I called you right after the attack.
00:04:19We were not that close of friends.
00:04:21I had met you.
00:04:22You didn't like me that much, right?
00:04:23No, I adored you.
00:04:24See, that was the thing.
00:04:25I thought you were the funniest writer I know.
00:04:28Well, and if I tell you what happened, you will laugh, and then I will feel great.
00:04:34Yeah.
00:04:34And then we'll both be happy.
00:04:35Right.
00:04:36I think, oh, this is going to be fun.
00:04:38Right.
00:04:38And you tell me this story, and I said, E, what happened to you was horrible, and you
00:04:46got upset that I wasn't laughing.
00:04:49Yeah.
00:04:50That if you thought it was funny, if I called you...
00:04:53It would take the sting out.
00:04:55That it hadn't happened, it was just a funny thing.
00:04:57And instead, I was shocked and said, wow, what are we going to do?
00:05:04Ladies?
00:05:06Cheers.
00:05:07You know, I was very disappointed that you wouldn't report him.
00:05:12But Lisa, they never would have believed me.
00:05:14I would have lost my...
00:05:15I would have been fired.
00:05:16I didn't have money to get an attorney.
00:05:19Everything I'd work for would be dissipated.
00:05:21You said, don't ever speak of this again.
00:05:26Don't ever tell anyone this story as long as you live.
00:05:31Do I have your word?
00:05:32And you did.
00:05:33And that was that.
00:05:41There's no such thing as destiny, dear listener.
00:05:46We ourselves make our lives.
00:05:51My first husband was a very jolly fellow who thought he was Ernest Hemingway.
00:05:56He shot pheasant, attended bullfights, drank absinthe, toyed with the idea of shooting his brains out, and so on.
00:06:04Oh, we got along famously.
00:06:08I spend my days writing the magazine articles, quizzes, stories, novels, movie sets, et cetera, et cetera, which nobody buys.
00:06:17This went on for 12 years.
00:06:20All the time I'm writing, writing, writing.
00:06:23And then I write this little quiz about Hemingway and Fitzgerald, and Esquire buys it.
00:06:27And, of course, that was the end of the marriage.
00:06:32The year is 1982.
00:06:34Outside magazine plucks me out of oblivion, sends me to New York to take Fran Liebowitz camping.
00:06:41Fran Liebowitz leaves Greenwich Village, a milestone in my life, but Fran Liebowitz in a tent?
00:06:52Fran's going to have this gunshot-off before she goes to sleep or know the reason why.
00:06:56I always like to hear a gunshot before I go to sleep. It reminds me of home.
00:07:00You have to shoot it all night and yell and stuff so I can sleep.
00:07:04Oh, I love it.
00:07:06I absolutely adore it.
00:07:12I got one taste of New York, and I thought, wow.
00:07:16And I never went back to Montana. That was it.
00:07:18I rented the apartment for 400 bucks a month on West 26th Street.
00:07:24I had no bathtub, no shower, no kitchen.
00:07:28I was as happy a being as ever existed.
00:07:35Magazines used to be written by very famous Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Truman Capote, Joan Didion.
00:07:42Joan Didion wrote for Life magazine.
00:07:44By the way, does your audience know what a magazine is?
00:07:48Probably not.
00:07:50Probably not.
00:07:52This is a magazine.
00:07:53This is one of my magazines.
00:07:54Magazines are like books with big, glossy pages.
00:07:57Oh, hello, mama!
00:08:00This is good.
00:08:02Now you can just publish on Instagram.
00:08:05Or you can have your own sub-stack.
00:08:08And you get paid from subscribers.
00:08:11It's a new world.
00:08:12But back in the day...
00:08:16I became the sort of go-to person at Esquire to cover bizarre sexual gender stories.
00:08:24Dude, what a magazine.
00:08:25I went to San Francisco to visit the militant lesbian pornographers.
00:08:32A fabulous group, I've got to say.
00:08:35I went on the road and moved in with all my ex-boyfriends.
00:08:39Oh, their wives hated it.
00:08:43I was a made woman.
00:08:44Once I was in Esquire, then I could go on and, you know, write for, you know, whoever, because
00:08:48I had a big clip.
00:08:50Oh, my God, frigid women, that's mine.
00:08:52I talked to women who could not have orgasms with intercourse.
00:08:57Oh, surprised!
00:08:59Playboy was ahead of its time.
00:09:01I was the first female contributing editor.
00:09:04They were publishing great writers.
00:09:06They paid women writers.
00:09:08So what?
00:09:08They didn't have their clothes on.
00:09:09Big deal.
00:09:11Get past it!
00:09:12First assignment was to do a profile of William Hurt.
00:09:16And William Hurt and I went over to the park and made out, and I wrote about it.
00:09:20Jesus.
00:09:22Oh, you see this?
00:09:23I went to Dartmouth and moved into a fraternity.
00:09:27Oh, my God.
00:09:28When that thing ran, oh, well, because, you know, I had everything in it.
00:09:33Everything.
00:09:36I'm not a very good writer, but I understand I have an eccentric personality.
00:09:41If I could just get that on paper, that's it.
00:09:47You know, I kid smell her, called Playgirl, with the idea of putting a reporter on the love train.
00:09:53I mean, they happened to mention it to me, and I thought I was born to do this story.
00:09:58These men in these books always have a lot of flash.
00:10:01They're all real glitzy and brooding ways.
00:10:03Dark, but glitzy.
00:10:04That's what women want.
00:10:06I mean, tell me, how many men do you know with a lot of flash?
00:10:11Not very many.
00:10:15The romance book is doing exactly what James Bond did.
00:10:19Yeah.
00:10:19He turned a woman into a sex object.
00:10:21We are turning men into sex objects.
00:10:23But in a much more tender way.
00:10:25Of course.
00:10:26I think men should be turned into sex objects.
00:10:29Don't you?
00:10:31This was gonzo journalism.
00:10:34Gonzo journalism is where you arrive at an event, and you swirl the events around yourself.
00:10:39You write about how you reacted to the story.
00:10:44Hi, this is Jean.
00:10:45I'm about ready to pay you the supreme compliment.
00:10:47I just got off a train for six days going across the country with women in flowered hats.
00:10:52And you are the first man I called when I got to New York.
00:10:56Yes.
00:10:58Buckle up and lock the door.
00:11:00Hunter Thompson is on the loose again, and the frenetic slap you in the face style he calls gonzo journalism.
00:11:06All right, let's roll.
00:11:08Hunter came to New York often, and we would pal around, go to Elaine's, hang out at the strip clubs,
00:11:14live sex shows, and so on.
00:11:18I surprised Hunter by flying to Colorado on his birthday, calling him and telling him that I was writing his
00:11:26bio.
00:11:27And to come and get me, I was at the Woody Creek Tavern.
00:11:30I had personally driven in his red Pontiac, top down.
00:11:36He's smoking a grass pipe, and he's just done a lot of cocaine.
00:11:42And we are going 70, 80, 90 miles an hour on the mountain roads, headlights off.
00:11:50That's Hunter.
00:11:51That's Hunter.
00:11:51He lived in a state of grace.
00:11:55And I learned a lot from Hunter.
00:11:59The world was, to him, something to have fun with.
00:12:08The new editor-in-chief of Elle magazine had been reading these Esquire stories, and she invited me to lunch.
00:12:14She loved the tone.
00:12:16She loved the ride the wild bronco, go for the story, never let go, you know, grab that bone and
00:12:24bury that bone and dig up that bone.
00:12:26And so then she said, how would you like to have an advice call?
00:12:32And at that moment, it was like I was on the top of the Empire State Building, and I jumped,
00:12:38and I fell into a vat of honey.
00:12:41It took Zoom off.
00:12:43I was the only game in town.
00:12:45That was it.
00:12:47I've got boxes of Ask You Gene letters.
00:12:49Rich girl revolted by snot-hagged mother.
00:12:53I'm stuck, my rut.
00:12:55Oh, that's interesting.
00:12:57Here's where I told people to give up, man.
00:13:02It's not that great.
00:13:04All my dreams were about becoming an advice columnist.
00:13:09From the age of 10, nightly, my father would come home from work, my mother, who had been meeting the
00:13:17man at the door with the cocktails, and as they sat and discussed the day, I would be reading Dear
00:13:24Abby or Ann Landers.
00:13:27Boy, what great teachers.
00:13:29Those women could write, and they were witty, and they helped people, and so, you know, I drank it in.
00:13:39My answers did not come from me.
00:13:42My answers came from reading all those hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of letters of women writing how they screwed
00:13:49up their lives.
00:13:50So when you read that all day long, you take that and you compute, okay, that doesn't work, that doesn't
00:13:56work, and then I can give back all this knowledge that the readers gave to me.
00:14:01Yes, you can step second on that dream cycle of Destiny Dollface, because you know who's on next.
00:14:09Roger Ailes gave me my own TV show.
00:14:13Ascii Jean was a live, daily, one-hour frolic that Entertainment Weekly called America's Answering Machine.
00:14:23I never sugar-coated my advice, and ladies, it was stupendous.
00:14:31So tell me, you're married.
00:14:32Right.
00:14:33And you're out of a job right now?
00:14:35Yes, I get up in the morning because I have to take my son to school.
00:14:39But after I get home, I'm just very bored.
00:14:43Right.
00:14:43I think, well, if I had an education, if I had my college degree, I could be going places, I
00:14:50could be doing something that I really want to do.
00:14:52Okay, so you know what you're going to do for yourself this Christmas?
00:14:54What's that?
00:14:55Middletown's got a great community college, if I remember correctly.
00:14:58Yes.
00:14:58You're going to be enrolled in that thing.
00:15:00You're going to put a nice new pair of Christmas shoes on, you're going to walk over there, and you're
00:15:04going to enroll.
00:15:05You're going to go to college.
00:15:06Why not?
00:15:07What's stopping you?
00:15:08Go.
00:15:09Okay?
00:15:10Go.
00:15:12If you ever want to know the pulse of America, just read advice columns, you'll see it.
00:15:17It's not necessarily in the answers, it's in the questions.
00:15:21In the 1990s, women were coming into their own, worried about their purpose in life.
00:15:26They talked about their careers, for God's sakes, it was great.
00:15:29In the 80s and 70s, we were quiet about that because we were trying to, you know, make our way
00:15:34in the world.
00:15:40I think the world that is 40 and younger cannot conceive of what it was like to work and knowingly
00:15:49be subject to the predations of men.
00:15:55But we all didn't know how to think about this, other than it happens to women.
00:16:01That's how we thought about it.
00:16:03But we told each other these stories, like war stories, that you got when you were trying to ascend in
00:16:10your career.
00:16:11We wanted to be...
00:16:12At the table.
00:16:13Yeah.
00:16:13To be at the table.
00:16:14That was it.
00:16:18There's Ask Eugene.
00:16:20Dallas, today is National Slut Day.
00:16:23Happy sluts everywhere are drinking champagne and unhappy sluts are writing to me.
00:16:31I don't like reading any of the advice I gave before.
00:16:35I told women to suck it up and just get on with it.
00:16:39You know, that's the silent generation.
00:16:41That's...
00:16:42I was living my truth.
00:16:44Oh, Jesus, I hate it when women say it.
00:16:49And I'm pleased, our final guest, E. Jean Carroll.
00:16:52She's a contributing editor to Esquire and advice columnist at Elle magazine.
00:16:55The press has gone to great lengths to draw certain distinctions between Anita Hill on the one hand and Paula
00:17:00Jones on the other.
00:17:01If you look at the Anita Hill story, she complained about the Coke bottle.
00:17:04You know, about him making lewd remarks about pornographic films.
00:17:08And if she had merely said, shut up, Clarence.
00:17:11And the same thing with Paula Jones.
00:17:13She came into the room and he said, I love your curves.
00:17:17And then he put his hand on her leg.
00:17:20I think both of women are wimps.
00:17:22I think if they displayed any bravery or personal courage, they would have dealt with it on the spot and
00:17:28not have brought it into the country.
00:17:30It's not that easy.
00:17:31It's not that easy.
00:17:33Diane, if they had...
00:17:33He's a governor.
00:17:35I mean, and she's...
00:17:36She's a woman.
00:17:37She was 24 years old.
00:17:39He was...
00:17:41I completely thought that the way to get to the top, which was, to me, was the end goal.
00:17:46You want to get up and you want to, you know, get as high as you can so you can
00:17:50earn as much money as you can because everything is...
00:17:53The odds are against you.
00:17:55What's this one?
00:17:56So that's where my eyes are trained.
00:17:58This is sort of sad looking at these, actually.
00:18:02It's nice to make a man happy.
00:18:05It's a bad movement to make all men happy.
00:18:13It's about a time it once was.
00:18:16I remember when I saw the New York Times story, something about Harvey Weinstein.
00:18:21I'm looking.
00:18:22And I couldn't believe it.
00:18:26Not one woman, not two, not three, not four.
00:18:29It was a watershed moment.
00:18:34I mean, it was breathtaking.
00:18:39The surge of Me Too rose up and just swallowed America.
00:18:43And what happened is women started to write to me to ask Eugene, should they come forward?
00:18:49How can I sit there silent?
00:18:56Whoever you are, secret listener, I know two things.
00:18:59You do honor to the human species and you possess a list.
00:19:07I'll bet yours looks something like mine.
00:19:09I recall three instances of being thrown to the ground.
00:19:13I was attacked by a military cadet.
00:19:15Men have had the opportunity to chase me.
00:19:18Molested by a camp counselor.
00:19:20Bruise me, maul me.
00:19:21Proposition by a mob guy.
00:19:23Pricked me.
00:19:23Prod me.
00:19:24Thump me.
00:19:25Chased by my boss.
00:19:27This list will be called the most hideous men of my life list.
00:19:32I started to make a list of the not so very, the horrible men in my life.
00:19:38Trump went down on the list.
00:19:41I never would have written about it.
00:19:43Never, never, never.
00:19:44Until these women came forward.
00:19:46And then I thought, oh, okay.
00:19:49This is how, this is what it does.
00:19:51This is what happens.
00:19:52You don't be quiet about it.
00:19:54You don't shut up.
00:19:57There's more breaking news tonight.
00:19:59In an interview published in the latest edition of New York Magazine, a woman claims that President
00:20:03Trump assaulted her 23 years ago.
00:20:07E. Jean Carroll has had the kind of career in publishing that a lot of young women in journalism
00:20:11dream of having.
00:20:13Prod me, prolifically published with an absolutely singular, instantly identifiable writing style.
00:20:19People have called her the female Hunter S. Thompson.
00:20:23Writer and Elle Magazine advice columnist E. Jean Carroll says this happened in a dressing
00:20:27room at the New York clothing store, Bergdorf Goodman, just steps away from Trump Tower.
00:20:31It was against my will, and it hurt, and it was a fight.
00:20:36Somehow I got my knee up and pushed him back, and the minute he backed up, I was out the
00:20:42door.
00:20:42Why didn't you call the police?
00:20:45Didn't have the guts.
00:20:46Didn't want to be assaulted again with a lot of questions.
00:20:49Like many women who are attacked, when I had the most to say, I said the least.
00:20:54E. Jean Carroll, thank you very much for joining us.
00:20:57Thank you for having me.
00:20:57I really, really appreciate you sharing this very difficult story with us.
00:21:01Really appreciate it.
00:21:05I went on all the shows and told the story, and the one question they had for me was,
00:21:11are you going to sue him?
00:21:14I didn't have a lawyer.
00:21:15I didn't think of ever suing anybody.
00:21:17Okay, let's see what we got.
00:21:21Trump, desperate to avoid E. Jean Carroll lawsuit, lawyers say.
00:21:26Good headline.
00:21:27I have no idea who this woman is.
00:21:30It's a false accusation, and it's a disgrace.
00:21:33People have to be careful, because they're playing with very dangerous territory.
00:21:41The president denied Carroll's allegations, saying that E. Jean Carroll isn't his type.
00:21:48She's not my type.
00:21:49That is what the president of the United States has just said about the woman who says he sexually
00:21:53assaulted her, which is what one says when a friend tries to fix you up.
00:21:57Not my type.
00:21:57It's not what anyone really says when accused of what amounts to rape.
00:22:00I meet a woman outside of Bergdorf-Goodman.
00:22:03I took her upstairs to a changing booth.
00:22:06It was all made up.
00:22:07This is all political.
00:22:09When I spoke up, I thought he would deny it and then say, it was consensual.
00:22:15But he just called me a liar.
00:22:16Seeing the president, the leader of the free rule, going on TV every single day for three
00:22:21days straight, calling me a liar.
00:22:24That I couldn't take.
00:22:28My entire career as an advice columnist rested on the fact I could be trusted and not give
00:22:36anybody any bullshit.
00:22:37It had to be absolutely the truth.
00:22:44When the president said, I'm a liar, it shook that whole foundation.
00:22:50What is your name, please?
00:22:52My name is Jeannie Carroll.
00:22:54My name is Jeannie Carroll.
00:22:56My name is Jeannie Carroll.
00:22:58To tell the truth with your host, Bob Collier.
00:23:01Very well, let's meet our next team of challenges.
00:23:05Panel, these three lovely young ladies all claim to be Jeannie Carroll, Miss Cheerleader,
00:23:08USA, for 1964.
00:23:10Let's start this cross-examination with Marty Engel.
00:23:13Number one, what did you wear when you went to that contest and you beat everybody because
00:23:17you looked so terrific?
00:23:18I wore a cheerleading uniform.
00:23:22Number two, do you know the cheer that starts off giving the ax?
00:23:25No?
00:23:26We never use one, Mike.
00:23:27Number three, do you cheer for just football or for everything?
00:23:30Everything.
00:23:31Do you agree with that, number one?
00:23:32How did you work up a crowd?
00:23:34Not that I'm not just a little worked up sitting here, but I mean, to get a crowd with
00:23:39you.
00:23:40How did you demonstrate that?
00:23:41I didn't demonstrate it separately.
00:23:42I worked it in with my cheers.
00:23:44Will the real Jeannie Carroll please stand up?
00:23:57Once upon a time, the Indiana University Athletic Department nominates me in the Miss
00:24:04Cheerleader USA contest in Cypress Gardens, Florida.
00:24:09I have done the thing no Indiana University football team has ever done.
00:24:16I have won a national championship.
00:24:19You were Miss Cheerleader USA.
00:24:23You were.
00:24:24Queen of all the cheerleaders.
00:24:26Can you imagine?
00:24:26Does that give you special access to the all-American team that year, the football team?
00:24:31It doesn't.
00:24:32I get a big scholarship.
00:24:33I meet President Johnson in the Rose Garden, billboards, 14 feet high, all over the state
00:24:39of Indiana.
00:24:40They featured your advice columnist soaring above a stunning crowd in the Indiana University
00:24:46football stadium.
00:24:47And ladies, I have never come down, forever in mid-leap, urging the crowd to never lose
00:24:54hope.
00:24:55Cheerleaders are the goddesses of grade school, high school, and college.
00:24:58So you wanted to be a goddess, and now, is that sort of extended into being a columnist,
00:25:04being a goddess of information?
00:25:06I was a cheerleader in grade school and high school, and today, I open an ASCII gene letter,
00:25:13and what do I do, ladies?
00:25:15I start shouting and yelling and cheering at the correspondent to pick herself up and go
00:25:22on.
00:25:23Here, let's start here.
00:25:24Let's see how high you can kick.
00:25:25Come on, kick, kick.
00:25:26Let's see.
00:25:26Come on.
00:25:27Wait a second.
00:25:28You know, the last time I did something like this, I have to stretch my hamstring.
00:25:31Let's do a little kick, Bill.
00:25:33Come on, babe.
00:25:34Can you kick up to my head?
00:25:36Whoa!
00:25:43Carol sued the president after he called her a politically motivated liar.
00:25:51That's an extremely horrible thing to say about somebody.
00:25:54Politically, I, who do not have a political bone in my body, or didn't, now I do, of course.
00:26:00Robbie!
00:26:01Let me run and get my tea.
00:26:03Hang on.
00:26:03Hello?
00:26:04Robbie, it's so great to see your face.
00:26:09Okay, Joshua, just let...
00:26:11Hi, Rachel.
00:26:12Hi, Eugene.
00:26:13Hi, Eugene.
00:26:14Robbie Kaplan.
00:26:15This is the woman who won Windsor in front of the Supreme Court, which broke it open for
00:26:20all gay couples to marry.
00:26:22So she said, when can you meet?
00:26:24How about noon on Wednesday?
00:26:26I said, fine, and rode up to the top of the Empire State Building, and Joshua Matz laid out
00:26:33the case, and they were going to give me time to think about it.
00:26:36I said, hell no!
00:26:39Let's do it!
00:26:40Let's do it!
00:26:41Bring the papers!
00:26:42Let me sign it!
00:26:44At the top, please speak your name.
00:26:47Eugene Carroll.
00:26:48I think the Supreme Court has, uh, given the health reports from, um, and I've also
00:26:56heard you said that I believe Donald Trump is in light of their votes, personally, Trump
00:27:00is about to take on today.
00:27:02Trump's lawyers want this thrown to the DOJ, so it's not Eugene Carroll against Donald
00:27:08Trump, it's Eugene Carroll against the United States.
00:27:11The DOJ will argue that Donald Trump was acting, quote, within his scope of employment as president
00:27:20when he called me too hideous to rape.
00:27:28We all have a lot at stake here.
00:27:30This lawsuit, it's not just for me.
00:27:33It almost has nothing to do with me.
00:27:35It's for really women across the country.
00:27:38We have to know, if we file a suit against a powerful man, the Department of Justice is
00:27:44not going to move in and take the case away.
00:27:50All right.
00:27:53This on the court is now a session.
00:27:55Please be seated and come to work.
00:27:57The court is sitting en banc this morning to hear the matter of Donald Trump et al versus
00:28:03E. Jean Carroll.
00:28:04Alina Habe, I represent former President Donald Trump in this matter.
00:28:09The president is acting within the scope of his employment when he speaks to the American
00:28:12people to publicly defend himself against a false accusation.
00:28:16So even in this court, he should be immune.
00:28:20Is there any situation in which a president speaking to the press would not be acting, in
00:28:28your view, within the scope of his employment?
00:28:30I think in this particular court, with the case law that has been mentioned by counsel, this
00:28:36was thrust upon him and he was responding to press in his job.
00:28:40My name is Joshua Matz.
00:28:42I represent plaintiff of Pelley E. Jean Carroll.
00:28:44I think Ms. Habe is mistaken.
00:28:46And Mr. Trump was acting outside the scope of his employment in defaming Ms. Carroll because
00:28:50he did so for personal reasons rather than to further the interests of the United States.
00:28:58We're going to listen to the hearing.
00:29:01If the DOJ steps in and wins, my case gets dismissed.
00:29:08Well, can a president say anything they want and be protected?
00:29:12Who is he serving when he says something like, she's not my type?
00:29:15Is he serving the United States of America when he makes that statement?
00:29:19Absolutely, because he has to address the fact that this could not and would not have happened.
00:29:24He did not do it.
00:29:25A White House job is not a promise of an unlimited prerogative to brutalize victims of prior wrongdoing
00:29:31through personally motivated attacks.
00:29:33That isn't the law.
00:29:34No court has ever said it's the law.
00:29:36And we would ask this court not to make it the law.
00:29:39Court stands adjourned.
00:29:48Robert.
00:29:49Can I tell you how he could say you're not his turn?
00:29:53What a moment.
00:29:54What a great morning.
00:29:57The thing about E. Jean is that, you know, when you're representing her, all we have to do is tell
00:30:01the truth.
00:30:01Yeah.
00:30:02This is a case where it's just so simple.
00:30:04I mean, you heard an argument today.
00:30:05Donald Trump's theory remains that he's the victim in this circumstance.
00:30:09Right.
00:30:10You know, and getting up and making it as clear as day.
00:30:12And he was trying to protect legitimate victims.
00:30:15Yes.
00:30:15Particularly in cases about sexual assault where so much yuck always becomes involved.
00:30:20It's really important that the plaintiff be convincing and persuasive and strong.
00:30:27America.
00:30:28Oh.
00:30:28You know, we all feel very lucky and honored to represent you and to tell your story.
00:30:32And then we go on.
00:30:33It's like the last night.
00:30:34And then we fight on.
00:30:34And then we fight on.
00:30:38Who could have guessed we'd chug, chug, chug, and puff, puff, puff through New York State Supreme Court,
00:30:45Federal Court, United States Court of Appeals, and the Federal Court.
00:30:49Nobody could have guessed it.
00:30:51Nobody.
00:30:55What do I always say at the end of every show, honey?
00:30:58What do I always say, Don?
00:31:00Don, what do I always say?
00:31:01Faith, love, sincerely.
00:31:07To my mother, I owe the richest twist of my so-called character, confidence.
00:31:14Ah, yes.
00:31:15Betty McKinney Carroll, a hot-tempered, red-headed, man-rattling, rip-roaring Republican politician.
00:31:23That woman had the figure of Betty Grable, the energy of a traveling acrobat,
00:31:28and the voice of a bird of paradise screeching in the jungle.
00:31:33I once saw her chase in her high heels with bows,
00:31:37a large man in a car all the way down the street because he merely looked
00:31:41like he might try to take a parking place she was about to maneuver into.
00:31:46With a mother like this, you either grow up to be a wimp or a hard-nosed who never gives
00:31:52up.
00:31:53I grew up to be both.
00:31:54I avoid all confrontations, and I joke my way through.
00:32:04I'm glad that you could drop everything.
00:32:07Recreating the look you did in 1996 in Ask Eugene.
00:32:14This is the look.
00:32:15This is the look.
00:32:16Lisa is the one who did my hair and makeup every morning, day in 94, 95, 96.
00:32:24Speed ahead, 25 years.
00:32:26I sue Donald Trump.
00:32:28We go to trial.
00:32:30Who, on a jury, is going to believe that an 80-year-old woman is fuckable?
00:32:37Nobody.
00:32:37So, we called Lisa to come and create the exact hairstyle and makeup she made for me every
00:32:45day the year it happened.
00:32:47You keep me absolutely settled.
00:32:50You don't seem to feel the terror of preparing somebody who's going to go up against the former
00:32:55president.
00:32:55Because I know you're going to win.
00:32:58You're not a liar.
00:32:59Right.
00:33:01Oh, hello, Eugene.
00:33:03Look, I'm back.
00:33:04You're back.
00:33:04There I am.
00:33:06Hello, E.
00:33:08Honey, you fell in love with a man, what, four years ago?
00:33:11Yes.
00:33:11Tell me a little about him.
00:33:12Um, well, from the beginning, he was really sweet.
00:33:15We got along really well.
00:33:16And after the first year of us going out, he began to be possessive.
00:33:22And what happened when you got pregnant?
00:33:23Well, it got a little bit worse, actually, at that point.
00:33:27He would come up to my job all the time, cause problems at work, um, calling all the time.
00:33:33Right.
00:33:33Now, those were warnings.
00:33:34Every single one of those is a warning sign.
00:33:36As soon as a man or a woman says to you, you can't go out with your friends, you can't
00:33:39go to the movie, you got to, you know, that's a big warning sign.
00:33:42Katrina, you must take steps so you don't live any more in fear.
00:33:45Do not give him the power.
00:33:48He's the only one who can make you the victim.
00:33:51If you don't let him, you're not, right?
00:33:53That's right.
00:33:54Thank you for coming on today.
00:33:55You're very brave.
00:33:56The Ascii Gene philosophy is to stop cowering.
00:34:01Do not give the other person the power to make you the victim.
00:34:06And always press charges.
00:34:10Always.
00:34:31The civil trial against former President Donald Trump, accusing him of sexual assault and
00:34:35defamation, got underway in New York City today.
00:34:38Former Elle magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll says Trump raped her in the dressing room of
00:34:42a Bergdorf-Goodman department store nearly 30 years ago.
00:34:46Carroll was suing Trump for defamation after he called her case a, quote, complete con job.
00:34:51Said her accusation was a hoax and a lie.
00:34:53She's also making a legal claim of battery itself against Trump for the reported rape itself.
00:34:59Nothing compares in drama to the trial.
00:35:04The president issued to me 68 questions that I had to answer.
00:35:09You know, every drug I've ever taken, every doctor I've ever seen, every time I've ever
00:35:13been arrested.
00:35:14Raise your right hand, please.
00:35:16Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth of God?
00:35:20I do.
00:35:22Good morning, Carol.
00:35:24Thank you for being here.
00:35:25How do you do?
00:35:25I'm okay.
00:35:27My name is Alina Haba.
00:35:28I'm sure you know that.
00:35:29I represent former President Donald Trump.
00:35:31Have you ever been deposed?
00:35:33Never.
00:35:34Okay.
00:35:35So let's go over some ground rules.
00:35:37First of all, you're under oath.
00:35:39So that means you must testify truthfully and honestly and accurately to the best of your
00:35:43ability.
00:35:44Are you ready to start?
00:35:46Is that a yes?
00:35:48That's a yes.
00:35:49Giddy up.
00:35:49Okay.
00:35:50If women could see what kind of questions their fellow woman is asked when she brings charges
00:35:57of rape against a powerful man, it would stop a racehorse.
00:36:04It is really quite stunning.
00:36:07Okay.
00:36:07I am going to switch into the complaint.
00:36:13Do you remember what the temperature was outside?
00:36:16Yes.
00:36:18Clear and cool-ish.
00:36:21I was wearing a wool dress.
00:36:26And he was wearing an overcoat.
00:36:29What were you wearing other than that jacket, that dress?
00:36:31Tights, shoes, brassiere.
00:36:37I want to say to you and just put on the record that as a woman, and although I'm an
00:36:44attorney,
00:36:45I'm going to ask you some very uncomfortable questions through this deposition.
00:36:49And I apologize in advance, but how do you define sex?
00:36:52Were you wearing underwear?
00:36:54What about your handbag from that day?
00:36:56Did you wear a bra?
00:36:57Yes.
00:36:58Let's go through your education and your job history a little bit.
00:37:01What is your highest level of education?
00:37:03Where'd you go to college?
00:37:07Indiana University.
00:37:08And what was your first job?
00:37:09Approximately how much money were you making at that point?
00:37:11What year did they stop taking your article ideas?
00:37:16Are you taking any medications or drugs that may impact your ability to recall a vet?
00:37:20Zero.
00:37:21Are you aware of any physical or mental condition that would impact your ability to recall a vet?
00:37:25No.
00:37:26Have you ever had acting classes?
00:37:28No.
00:37:29Did you ever consider coming forward with your account prior to me too?
00:37:33Never.
00:37:35Why not?
00:37:36Because women who have been raped are looked at, and this society is less.
00:37:42Every woman who admits to being attacked has to answer that question.
00:37:46Why didn't you scream?
00:37:47Why didn't you come forward when you did?
00:37:50Why didn't you come forward before?
00:37:52And so, no, I didn't, I didn't.
00:37:58From the moment E. Jean Carroll first sat on the witness stand as part of her civil battery and defamation
00:38:03lawsuit against Donald Trump,
00:38:04Trump's defense lawyers have made it clear that their strategy here is to inject doubt and to undermine E. Jean
00:38:10Carroll's account of how Trump allegedly raped her.
00:38:13But, look what happens to women in New York who report a rape.
00:38:19If they've had so much as a sip of alcohol, the case will not be taken.
00:38:23If you report a rape and the man is actually brought in and questioned, the chances of him being convicted
00:38:31of that rape are 0.05.
00:38:35So, that's why women don't come forward.
00:38:38That's why we're trying to change it now.
00:38:40Now, this is why we're speaking out.
00:38:42Okay, let's go back to the day at Bergdorf.
00:38:47Just walk me through when the first time you noticed defendant on the dating question was.
00:38:53This is during the years I'm doing the daily Ask E. Jean TV show.
00:38:57I'm going out the revolving door and one of New York's most famous men is coming in the revolving door.
00:39:05He held up his hand as I was coming out.
00:39:07So, I stopped and he came in and he said, hey, you're that advice lady.
00:39:14I say, hey, you're that real estate tycoon.
00:39:18What happened after he went through the revolving door?
00:39:22Come advise me, says the man.
00:39:23I got to buy a present.
00:39:25Oh, I say charmed.
00:39:27For whom?
00:39:28A girl, he says.
00:39:30What did you say?
00:39:32I was delighted.
00:39:34Why were you delighted?
00:39:36I had an advice column.
00:39:38This is my duty.
00:39:40It was a New York scene with Donald Trump asking me to help advise him on getting a present.
00:39:49How old are you, says the man.
00:39:51My reply is 52.
00:39:54You're so old, he says, laughing.
00:39:58And then what happened?
00:39:59I said, handbags.
00:40:03Handbags, that would be perfect.
00:40:06He was going to have no part of the handbag thing.
00:40:09So, I said, hats, you can't go wrong with a hat.
00:40:12So, he went to the hat.
00:40:14It's about this point, he looks across the store in the direction of the escalator and says, lingerie.
00:40:21How do you know that?
00:40:23Because he said, I know, lingerie.
00:40:26I want people to understand that in the world at large, you were more famous than he was.
00:40:33You were on TV.
00:40:34You had a column.
00:40:36You were well known.
00:40:37We now know he just failed upwards.
00:40:42He was just a guy.
00:40:44He was not even an important guy.
00:40:49He recognized you at the store.
00:40:52You're the advice lady.
00:40:54You didn't even think about it, though.
00:40:55You said, go to the police.
00:40:56Yeah.
00:40:57It wasn't because it was Donald Trump.
00:40:59How did you even think of that?
00:40:59No, but that's the important thing.
00:41:00It wasn't about him.
00:41:02Everybody thinks, oh, he's the president.
00:41:04Oh, he's Donald Trump.
00:41:05No.
00:41:06He was a man with a bad comb-over who hurt my friend.
00:41:19At that point, did you leave the ground floor?
00:41:22Yes.
00:41:34So what happens next?
00:41:39On the left, there's a counter.
00:41:44and there was nobody there
00:41:49and on the counter was a body suit see-through with a little bit of lace on
00:41:56he said go put this on I said you put it on it's your color he threw it back at
00:42:01me and he said go
00:42:03put this on tossed it back to him and said it goes with your eyes did he catch it yeah
00:42:10I like
00:42:11this this was banter we're going back and forth he's saying put this on I'm saying you put it on
00:42:19he said I thought it was an enjoyable repartee what happened next he said let's go put this on
00:42:38and I started laughing because I'm thinking to myself this is hilarious I'm going to make him
00:42:45put it on over his pants that's my plan and then after I make him put it on over his
00:42:53pants I'm going
00:42:53to have a story that I can tell my friends at dinner did you think Donald Trump would put the
00:42:59piece of lingerie over his pants I did he he he was very different he was he was not the
00:43:08former
00:43:09president at the time he was pretty freewheeling so what happened after he gestured with his hand
00:43:15for you to go in the dressing room it's all one action I stepped into the room the door was
00:43:21banged
00:43:22closed and he pushed me up against the wall so hard that I banged my head did it hurt it
00:43:28jolted me
00:43:29and then he pushed me back again now I understood that it was this is this is this is a
00:43:36battle and he
00:43:38pulled down my tights did you scream no did you push him yes where I had my purse in this
00:43:49hand and I
00:43:50tried to get my arms up right hand and I tried to get my arms up to push him back
00:43:54to push him back
00:43:57the problem was I couldn't get my knee up because the pantyhose had been taken down and then I felt
00:44:03his fingers rummaging around my vagina and this huge weight against me at one point I remember saying
00:44:18it's Donald Trump what the heck is going on and then I felt his penis inside me
00:44:29how long did that last
00:44:33very short time
00:44:36approximately how long do you think
00:44:37very brief it was
00:44:43very brief
00:44:45did you say anything I was so shocked I was laughing
00:44:53why were you laughing
00:44:57trying to recapture the camaraderie we had in the sort of the feeling of a lark we're on a lark
00:45:02we're
00:45:03having an adventure this is a lark trying to recapture that and take it out of the realm
00:45:08where he had entered
00:45:12trying to reduce
00:45:15any eroticism about it
00:45:18was it erotic not to me
00:45:27I managed to get my knee up and push off and get him out
00:45:35I went out the door and
00:45:40went away
00:45:42did you feel like he was trying to hurt your head
00:45:45no
00:45:47no
00:45:50no
00:45:50he was not trying to hurt me
00:45:53he was trying to rape me
00:46:07when I came forward about the president then people started to tell me their stories
00:46:11there are literally hundreds of messages from women like you know
00:46:15I'm engaging right now on twitter with a woman whose husband raped her repeatedly
00:46:20tried to poison their kids you know that's scary that's a scary guy
00:46:24and then she went to the detectives two days ago and filed charges
00:46:30in a way it's just her telling me her story gave her strength
00:46:35that is
00:46:36that's what it's about
00:46:41i've talked to most of the other trump accusers and
00:46:44every single person i've talked to who's accused donald trump of sexual assault
00:46:51has been threatened violently
00:46:55many of the women lost jobs lost family members over this
00:47:00so these are all very brave women i am like the biggest chicken of all of them so
00:47:05you lost your job
00:47:06oh yeah i lost my job
00:47:1027 years
00:47:12of writing the ask eugene column
00:47:14something i love to do i get up in the morning i love being an advice columnist
00:47:19loved it
00:47:23i thought they were calling to invite me to the christmas party
00:47:27i'm like oh i wonder what date it is what am i going to wear you know
00:47:31and they said eugene uh we won't be renewing your contract this year
00:47:36and i said oh all right
00:47:38uh why and she said because we don't have the pages
00:47:42anybody in publishing knows that's like bullshit
00:47:44a woman's magazine fires a woman for standing up to a powerful man
00:47:49not not as we say in the fashion world not a good look
00:47:55boom l fire me
00:47:59i crawled off the muck heap and began writing for the atlantic
00:48:08we drove up to buffalo to interview one of the trump accusers
00:48:13well that made it didn't it okay
00:48:15i'm trying to reach a key corroborator
00:48:19and i've been messaging her for three days
00:48:23we're having a little bit of a struggle
00:48:29getting corroborators to go on the record
00:48:36when you read a report that the woman who accuses the man
00:48:41has anonymous people support it just it's weak it's weak
00:48:47it means so much to the believability of the story
00:48:53and also it is armor against the trump administration
00:48:58when i came forward my two friends who i told
00:49:03they're both journalists they knew they knew the game
00:49:07they had you know they're more experienced in journalism than i am
00:49:11they did not want to go on the record they did not want to go on the record
00:49:15two experienced journalists because those two knew what was going to hit them
00:49:24it's been a very emotional experience because from the time your story came out in new york magazine
00:49:30you call me about six times a day so and so is going to call you to fact check
00:49:34so and so is going to call you to fact check and i would say i will fact check but
00:49:38anonymously
00:49:40i remember convincing you to come with your name you at the end of that meal you had not agreed
00:49:47it was such an important decision
00:49:49i wanted to talk to my family about it
00:49:52you wanted to talk to your family
00:49:53and they did not want me to be public
00:49:55they did not want you to go on the record
00:49:59no
00:49:59because of you were viciously attacked
00:50:02so you went to your family you discussed it and what happened
00:50:07then i found out you dedicated your book to me
00:50:09oh
00:50:10oh
00:50:13yeah
00:50:16yeah
00:50:20it worked
00:50:24you're my best friend
00:50:25we are best friends
00:50:28how long were you friends with miss bernbach prior to the attack
00:50:30hmm
00:50:33we met in 90
00:50:35or 89
00:50:38so
00:50:38four or five years
00:50:40was she your closest friend at the time
00:50:42no
00:50:43who was your closest friend at the time
00:50:44carol was probably
00:50:47carol martin
00:50:48yeah
00:50:52what did you do the day following the attack
00:50:58the next day i suddenly remembered the pain in my head
00:51:02um
00:51:03and
00:51:05went to work
00:51:07did you tell anybody at work what had happened
00:51:09yes i told carol martin
00:51:10we both did our shows in the same studio
00:51:13we met backstage i said i've got to talk to you
00:51:16and she said let's talk tonight
00:51:17so we met at her house later
00:51:21it was strange because i promised i would never tell anybody else
00:51:24the first thing i do is see carol martin at work and i had to tell her
00:51:27and what did miss martin say to you
00:51:30she said tell no one
00:51:33he's got 200 lawyers
00:51:35he'll bury you
00:51:39the next day i go to work i see you
00:51:42and
00:51:42i
00:51:43felt
00:51:43i needed a hug
00:51:45i needed just somebody to say it'll be okay
00:51:48because lisa's like
00:51:49you're going to the police
00:51:50lisa's about business
00:51:51she is
00:51:52lisa's about yeah
00:51:53but i think both of our
00:51:55responses were
00:51:56fine
00:51:56but i just remember the first thing i said
00:51:58are you okay
00:51:59because if you'd have
00:52:00raised your shirt up and you had scratches or something that would have been another thing
00:52:03altogether but
00:52:04you seemed like you were handling your business
00:52:07which is what i knew you to do
00:52:09but i think you were ashamed
00:52:13and
00:52:14and then you testified in the second trump
00:52:16i never doubted for a second
00:52:18of course carol martin testified
00:52:20that's what carol martin does
00:52:22carol martin stands up for her friends
00:52:24carol martin doesn't let down anybody
00:52:26of course
00:52:27she's carol
00:52:29fucking martin
00:52:36they were so mean they were so mean so i felt scarred you know from that experience
00:52:42because i've never been challenged that way sitting there that's why i tell you and you
00:52:49don't accept it that much but i don't know you sat there four days or whatever it was
00:52:52straight on with that thing there was some darkness coming in there were some things i think
00:52:58we confronted in that courtroom
00:53:03listen me and lisa we know our role we knew that we were there in truth and we were there
00:53:08in the beginning
00:53:10cheers cheers
00:53:11top it off
00:53:12yes
00:53:12to carol martin
00:53:13well i'll take it okay
00:53:15to e genie
00:53:17whoever the fuck would have thought
00:53:21i mean for real for real
00:53:25you got divorced then
00:53:27you were single for a while
00:53:29yes
00:53:31did you date
00:53:33how often did you date how many men did you date
00:53:39there's such a gorgeous array of chaps let me think
00:53:47in new york i had a very entertaining social life
00:53:53in the 60s 70s 80s and 90s the great directors the great musicians they would go to elaine's at night
00:54:03i frequented elaine's on thursday nights that was writers night
00:54:09one thursday night i was as usual at elaine's i was sitting at the regulars table when j.j. the
00:54:16big time new york anchorman comes in the night a different rhythm a different pulse he was one of the
00:54:23prettiest and most accomplished men in manhattan after sundown there are many people who get it all and who get
00:54:30it on he pushed back his chair at one end of elaine's and i pushed back my chair at the
00:54:38end h
00:54:38other end of the lanes, and we looked at one another. Well, ladies, that was it. It.
00:54:51This is P2. It's a blown-up version. It was produced by your attorney. Yes.
00:55:02Do you recognize yourself in this picture? Yes.
00:55:11Here in front of you, a black-and-white photograph that we've marked as DJT-23.
00:55:20I think that's her big claim to fame, you know, that she shook my hand at some celebrity event.
00:55:25So the answer to my question is yes, that after you made the statement, you became aware that
00:55:33there's a photo of you with Ms. Carroll in a receiving line, correct?
00:55:37At some point, I saw there was a photo on a receiving line, yes.
00:55:42When exactly was this picture taken?
00:55:46I think it was when I was a writer at Saturday Night Live.
00:55:51What year was that?
00:55:531987.
00:55:55When you said that Ms. Carroll was not your type, you meant that she was not your type physically, right?
00:56:04I saw her in a picture. I didn't know what she looked like.
00:56:09And I said it, and I say it with as much respect as I can, but she is not my
00:56:14type.
00:56:16Can you identify for me who else is in this picture with you?
00:56:19Yes, my ex-husband, John Johnson, Ivana, Trump, and Donald Trump.
00:56:25That's, I guess, her husband, John Johnson, who was an anchor for ABC.
00:56:34Nice guy.
00:56:35I thought, I mean, I don't know him, but I thought he was pretty good at what he did.
00:56:40I don't even know who the woman, let's see.
00:56:42I don't know who, it's Marla.
00:56:48You're saying Marla's in this photo?
00:56:49That's Marla, yeah.
00:56:51That's my wife.
00:56:52Which woman are you pointing to?
00:56:54Here.
00:56:56The person you just pointed to was E.J. and Carroll.
00:56:58Who is that?
00:56:58Who is this?
00:57:00And the person, the woman on the right is your then wife, Ivana?
00:57:04I don't know, this was the picture.
00:57:05I assume that's John Johnson.
00:57:07Is that Carol?
00:57:08Because it's very blurry.
00:57:12I take it the three women you've married are all your type.
00:57:16Yeah.
00:57:22So who was your last significant relationship that you remember?
00:57:27John Johnson.
00:57:30Who was the last man you dated that you recall?
00:57:37I don't remember his name.
00:57:40That's how significant it was.
00:57:47Yes, funky listener, freedom is the main theme of my life.
00:57:52I'm a born vagabond, an adventurer, a fool.
00:57:56And somehow I just could never decide to experience lasting love.
00:58:05In New York, there's a taxi.
00:58:08And the light is on, it means it's available, it wants to meet people.
00:58:12I didn't have that, my light was gone.
00:58:21It's not for lack of trying.
00:58:23I wanted to meet people.
00:58:24I just...
00:58:29The music had stopped.
00:58:31Why do you think the music had stopped?
00:58:38Well, looking back on it,
00:58:42It may have been what happened at Bergdorf's.
00:58:56That's it.
00:59:00I've never had sex with anybody ever again.
00:59:03The music had stopped.
00:59:16The music had stopped.
00:59:18It's his郎.
00:59:28It's his friend.
00:59:28What do you feel?
00:59:39Didn't take the jury long at all to find former President Donald Trump liable for sexual assault and defamation.
00:59:45They awarded five million dollars in damages to the accuser.
00:59:49The jury returned a total verdict of five million dollars against Donald Trump for the assault and Donald Trump's lies
01:00:00about the assault.
01:00:01Yesterday was the happiest day of my life.
01:00:04What was the feeling?
01:00:05Because the former president had smeared me so badly that it wasn't until yesterday I got back up on my
01:00:20feet and felt my name is back.
01:00:29I want to know you're not going into journalist mode I see I'm going into journalist I know when you
01:00:34go to what would happen if you didn't have Carol Martin and Lisa Birnbach.
01:00:39You know from the very first moment we met when you told me your story there was a lot of
01:00:43evidence that corroborated and confirmed your story.
01:00:46Well I was like okay that's a good case and honestly no one else thought so.
01:00:51Well you won the case when you showed him the photograph and he recognized me right off the bat as
01:00:59that's my wife.
01:01:00Marla.
01:01:01That's Marla.
01:01:02You did look kind of similar.
01:01:03At the time we did resemble one another but here's the thing we had to put me on the stand
01:01:08and look fuckable.
01:01:12Yeah.
01:01:12That was the problem.
01:01:14It wasn't a problem.
01:01:15The jury had no trouble believing that.
01:01:19Apparently not and that we were I was very worried about that and you showed that picture of me from
01:01:2496 every change.
01:01:26Yeah with the one eating the dumplings or whatever I couldn't wait for the guy to say not my type.
01:01:31It's the best thing he ever said.
01:01:33It was well because it like it it was the capstone of the defamatory campaign.
01:01:47I want to ask you about a significant verdict that was reached yesterday.
01:01:50I know this is something you want to weigh in on as well.
01:01:52This woman said I met her at the front door of Bergdorf Goodman which I rarely go into other than
01:01:57for a couple of charities.
01:01:58And a few minutes later we end up in a a room a dressing room.
01:02:02What kind of a woman meets somebody and brings them up and within minutes you're playing hanky panky in a
01:02:08dressing room.
01:02:09Her cat was named Vagina the judge wasn't allowed to put that in all of these things.
01:02:15But with her they can put in anything.
01:02:17She's a whack job.
01:02:26When I accused Donald Trump of sexual assault I had no idea what I was in for.
01:02:34The avalanche of slime has been unbelievable.
01:02:37You're full of shit and definitely you are not Trump's type.
01:02:40Trump was attracted to an older woman?
01:02:42I doubt that.
01:02:43You're just looking for a payday.
01:02:45Show the fucking proof of sexual abuse you lying twat.
01:02:48It raises doubt.
01:02:49Fucking piece of shit.
01:02:50I've never seen somebody so happy to have allegedly been raped.
01:02:53Fuck off and die you nasty cat.
01:02:55What a pathetic bitch you are.
01:02:56Must really suck to be here.
01:02:58There is no real consequence for this woman.
01:03:00My friend said he wants to kill you and I cannot stop him.
01:03:03Rest in peace cunt.
01:03:04Your address is out there liberal bitch.
01:03:08My address.
01:03:10You know at first it was like hundreds a day.
01:03:13Then it became thousands a day.
01:03:16We're in a scary situation here.
01:03:18I think of that every morning when I wake up.
01:03:19Will I make it through the day?
01:03:21Every morning.
01:03:24Well now we have cameras up.
01:03:27And alarm systems.
01:03:34Three days ago we filed our proposed amendment complaint for Carol One.
01:03:39We sought new damages for Trump's vile comments on CNN and his foul rants on true social.
01:03:50So the second trial was really mostly about all the vile, horrible, disgusting things people have been saying to you
01:03:57since then.
01:03:57And it was hard for anyone to go through it.
01:03:59I mean it was just hard.
01:04:00That was rough.
01:04:0060, 70 a minute.
01:04:02You know.
01:04:02Cunt, cunt, cunt.
01:04:03You know.
01:04:04Oh just.
01:04:05I'm going to rape you.
01:04:05I'm going to murder you.
01:04:06Just.
01:04:07I mean they're just horrific.
01:04:10There's some scary stuff out there.
01:04:20As if things could not get any worse for Trump legally.
01:04:23Tonight Ms. Carol is seeking a quote very substantial additional amount of damages in response to Donald Trump's comments on
01:04:30CNN.
01:04:31The filing says tonight that she should be awarded these damages to quote punish Trump.
01:04:35To deter him from engaging in further defamation and to deter others from doing the same.
01:04:43Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and
01:04:51nothing but the truth?
01:04:52I do.
01:04:54You may proceed counsel.
01:04:55I was looking at photos of me from the first trial, the seventh trial.
01:04:59The difference is amazing.
01:05:01The bags under my eyes now are much more.
01:05:03My whole face is.
01:05:04I look very different in the eight months.
01:05:07You have two lawsuits against former President Donald Trump.
01:05:10Is that correct?
01:05:13Yes.
01:05:15It really had a toll.
01:05:17It really had a toll.
01:05:24We were prepping for the second trial and giving testimony.
01:05:29And Robbie, very smartly, said, the man you have not seen in 30 years is going to be in that
01:05:38courtroom.
01:05:39I just had a total breakdown.
01:05:45I couldn't talk.
01:05:47I lost my language.
01:05:50Nothing came into my brain.
01:05:54And I'm feeling the load is coming down on me to such an extent that I didn't think I would
01:06:03ever talk again or ever leave that room or.
01:06:10I was not.
01:06:17Okay.
01:06:18You mentioned that you worked hard to push the memories away with respect to the alleged incident with Donald Trump.
01:06:26How have you worked to push the memories away?
01:06:29It's an ongoing project.
01:06:35It's an underlying theme of my life.
01:06:42If it, a vision or a word or an image or a piece of tape or just a flash of
01:06:57a photo will occur in my mind.
01:06:59And I will bat it away.
01:07:05And if it comes back, I, um, I have to consciously shove it away.
01:07:14How many instances can you recall when this has happened?
01:07:25It, it's difficult to describe.
01:07:28It's like an underlying condition of my life.
01:07:33So as you sit here today, you can't describe to me what that was, what you were thinking about.
01:07:40Objection to form, you can answer.
01:07:42I can describe to you an episode.
01:07:50Sure.
01:07:51Let's start there.
01:07:56It was October 7th, 2016.
01:08:03My brothers and sisters and I were gathered at my mother's deathbed.
01:08:08And it was a very joyful time because we were recalling the highlights of my mother's life and she was
01:08:15enjoying herself watching home movies and our phones went off, the TV went off and the Access Hollywood tape hit.
01:08:24Use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her.
01:08:27My brain was taken over with images of Donald Trump pressing his mouth against mine.
01:08:34You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful.
01:08:37I just start kissing them.
01:08:38It's like a magnet.
01:08:39You just kiss.
01:08:40I don't need to wait.
01:08:43Donald Trump pushing me.
01:08:44Grabbing by the pussy.
01:08:46I can do anything.
01:08:48Donald Trump raping me in the dressing room.
01:08:57I haven't gotten an answer.
01:08:59I've gotten a lot of testimony, but not much of an answer.
01:09:01What is the image?
01:09:02You said it's sometimes a photograph.
01:09:04What's the photograph of?
01:09:11The image of being downstairs looking at hats.
01:09:18An image of riding in the escalator, going into the dressing room, that right there, going into the dressing room
01:09:25is one of the worst.
01:09:27Why is it one of the worst?
01:09:29When that image comes up, I feel like just an idiot.
01:09:32And then I feel bad because I wasn't thinking.
01:09:37I felt guilty because I should have seen a sign.
01:09:40I felt guilty as a bad example to women.
01:09:44I felt guilty because I went into the dressing room, guilty that I was being a bad...
01:09:51I wasn't smart, so I was...
01:09:54I felt guilty.
01:09:59I still feel guilty.
01:10:02Why do you still feel guilty?
01:10:15I know I'm not supposed to feel this way, but I feel it's my fault.
01:10:22One minute, you're a daisy-fresh, smart-aleck, boisterous, bold, reckless, heedless girl with remarkable reserves of power.
01:10:31And ten minutes later, after you've been pulled into an alley, pushed down into a backseat, thrown to the ground,
01:10:38you're a damaged package of female fears.
01:10:42Susan, I admire you more than I can say for coming on today, honey.
01:10:47Now, I don't want to get into the rape because we've all...
01:10:49You know, I just can't handle it today.
01:10:52What I want to hear is what happened to you afterward?
01:10:56After the rape, actually during the rape, I said to him, why are you doing this?
01:10:59And he said, I had no right to complain about any of it because it was all my fault.
01:11:04And you believed it? You believed it?
01:11:07Totally believed it.
01:11:08What is it about you growing up and being this wonderful girl, so powerful, so unafraid of everything, why suddenly,
01:11:16just in this five minutes of this horrible thing, why did you think it was your fault?
01:11:21I don't know. I just, you know, I thought I could have did something.
01:11:24You know, I thought maybe I didn't make it clear enough.
01:11:26So you decided not to prosecute?
01:11:28Right.
01:11:29My darling, the woman who best survives a rape is a woman who doesn't perpetuate and worsen her misery by
01:11:36adding guilt to it.
01:11:37You can see I'm struggling through this. It's very hard for me.
01:11:40So call. We're live. Sweetie Pie. 1-800-988-TALK.
01:11:49Did you ever seek professional help in your entire life?
01:11:53No.
01:11:55To dwell on something that is horrendous makes the period that you're dwelling on also horrendous.
01:12:04I just don't like the dwelling and the talking about.
01:12:15I was born in 1943. We are the chin-up, move-it-on, grin-and-bear-it generation.
01:12:23We didn't complain. It would never occur to me. We actually smiled about it and moved on. That's how we
01:12:32handle things.
01:12:34Yes, my darling doodle-bangers. Here's the ASCII Jean control room. Hi, Cheryl.
01:12:41Hi, Jean.
01:12:42Who are you talking to, Cheryl?
01:12:43I don't know. Who's this?
01:12:45Sarah runs the Chiron. The Chiron are the words that come in under the pictures.
01:12:49Hi.
01:12:49And looky here. Renata is in charge of the show.
01:12:52Hello.
01:12:53Oh, looky here. What is...
01:12:55Oh!
01:12:56These are our guests.
01:12:57Oh, they're horrified.
01:12:58Can you hear me?
01:12:59I can't hear you, Renata.
01:13:00Can you hear me?
01:13:00Get into the studio, please.
01:13:02What?
01:13:02We have a show to do.
01:13:03Come on. We have people on the phone.
01:13:05Oh, all right, all right.
01:13:05Get into the studio.
01:13:06Do the show.
01:13:06Our beautiful cameraman. Hi, Renata.
01:13:09Hi, Jean.
01:13:11Honey, I'm so glad that our audience got to see you at last.
01:13:14Honey, honey.
01:13:15What?
01:13:16We have Pete on the phone.
01:13:17Oh, Pete. Pete.
01:13:18Yes.
01:13:18Honey, are you there?
01:13:20Did you ever speak to your general practitioner about the fact that you had no sex drive?
01:13:25I did have a sex drive. I always liked sex. Sex is one of the great, delicious things.
01:13:33I had shut down the pathway to meeting a partner.
01:13:46I wish perhaps I had seen a therapist, but I didn't, and I'm now grappling with things
01:13:57that may have actually have hurt me, and I'm getting a new view of life. For years, I thought
01:14:03of myself as an invincible old lady, and if I've learned anything is I have to start admitting
01:14:14that I have suffered.
01:14:22But you didn't stay away from writing about it to the general public, is that correct?
01:14:28That's my form of therapy. I write.
01:14:31You are alone.
01:14:32You are alone.
01:14:45You are alone.
01:14:56So the first thing is I will have you're safe to hear from, is that correct?
01:14:58Now, let me take a look at your second civil trial between Donald Trump and writer E. Jean Carroll
01:15:01is underway. The former president appeared in court earlier today. This trial is just about
01:15:06damages. All the jury is deciding is how much more he owes E. Jean Carroll in addition to the
01:15:14five million dollars he's already been awarded at that first trial. He didn't even come to the
01:15:20first trial because that was only about sexual assault. He didn't care about that. But this
01:15:26trial was about money. And boy, did he show up. Throughout the trial, Trump continued to
01:15:35deny Carroll's allegations against it, prompting a wave of criticism and threats against the
01:15:39writer. Trump's attorney, Alina Haba, arguing Trump could not control what people wrote
01:15:45online and that Carroll had actually been elevated because of Trump's statement.
01:15:56It was terrible. I had to stand up, walk to the witness box, turn around, hold up my
01:16:05hand and swear I was going to tell the truth. And there's Donald Trump sitting 35 feet away
01:16:13from me. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to talk. Because that's what happened to me in
01:16:19prep. I just thought I was in deep shit. Deep. I was like this. It was horrible. And that was
01:16:32the moment. Robbie Kaplan is sitting here. She took me by the little hand. And she said,
01:16:40Good morning, Miss Carroll. Can you please spell your name for the jury?
01:16:48And I don't know what happened. I looked out. There he was. And he was exactly zero. He did not
01:16:56exist. One of the things that kept being hammered over and over again by Sean Crowley, the lawyer for
01:17:03E.G. Carroll, who delivered that statement is that she wanted the jury to consider when they are
01:17:08thinking about punitive damages. How much will it take to make it stop? Because as recently as this
01:17:14morning, Miss Crowley noted, Donald Trump had defamed her client again.
01:17:19We returned. We went to the court and the judge said, the jury has a verdict.
01:17:27And that's, boy, that's when you have to stand there and take it. It was up in the air. I've
01:17:35got Robbie on
01:17:36this side and Sean on this side. Our hands are squeezing each other. And the four women read out
01:17:47the verdict. The big story on Action News tonight is breaking news. A verdict has been reached in the
01:17:53defamation damages trial against former President Donald Trump. What we just witnessed right behind
01:17:58us as she left with her legal team is that she is elated. Former president ordered to pay $83.3
01:18:05million of damages. Money, money, money, money. $83 million to stop Mr. Trump from getting in front
01:18:12of cameras, from making posts on Truth Social as it relates to Miss E.G. Carroll at all. If he
01:18:18had
01:18:18just shut his mouth, he'd have been dealing with $5 million. For perspective, O.J. Simpson only had to
01:18:27pay $33 million for a double murder. This win for E.G. Carroll marked a momentous day for victims of
01:18:38sexual abuse everywhere. Trump will, for the first time, face legal accountability for his treatment
01:18:43of women. We're fighting not really, Rachel, for me. It's now about fighting for all women. Women are
01:18:51fighters. Bad things still happen to women, yeah. But women are no longer damsels. Great. Wow. You've been on
01:19:02camera. You're a pro. Give me a big smile. Yes. The 10,000-year-old damsel in distress story is
01:19:10dead. It's not the
01:19:1250s anymore, boys.
01:19:16Dear Miss Carroll, thank you for standing up to Trump. I am your age. And this means a lot to
01:19:23our
01:19:23generation, which endured abuse silently. Congratulations on the success. You have gained
01:19:28a victory for all women. Please let me know if there are steps that I and others can take
01:19:34to continue your wonderful efforts. There's the crux. There is the crux. That is what we're facing right
01:19:42now. We have to realize that this win has to go on. After the win, it's just taken weeks and
01:19:52weeks to get back to my human beingness, which completely flew the coop. I don't know where
01:20:00my human being was, because I was an entity. I was a thing that won $83 million. I don't
01:20:05know what that is. What the hell? You see how I live? I am thinking of getting a toaster.
01:20:14Oh, my God. Oh, boy. God. Oh, hello. This looks really good. Wow. Oh, my God. This looks
01:20:35insane. We look like we're, yes. Oh, my God. Look at you. We look like we called each other
01:20:42and met. The trial was a very big deal. In a dark moment, when people in America are shredding
01:21:00shredding their nerves in the darkness of what's going on. And here comes this huge attorney
01:21:08called Robbie Kaplan, who stands 5'1", a giant, beats Donald Trump twice, then makes him pay.
01:21:17Yes. $83 million. So how are you feeling? I feel fabulous. I feel very, very lucky. I'm overwhelmed
01:21:34every day with happiness just for being alive. Swear to God. What's your best advice for women
01:21:43coming forward with their stories? It's a very, very difficult decision to make. To me, it's
01:21:49overpowering because I'm just a woman. I am just an old woman. This is really in honor of women
01:21:59everywhere. Amazing. Thank you much so much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for
01:22:13today. We'd like me to ask you a part of our episode. We could've been canceled at the
01:22:27top of the season, and thank you so much for your job and making sure our everyone very
01:22:27spend the time of our division is the chWarrior. Every name is a volunteer friend from the
01:22:35season. Just the family. We were very pleased to've had the wonderful little
01:22:39things of the time. We would like you to see you in the situation, and have changed
01:22:47We're serious women, and a serious woman is an extremely powerful entity.
01:22:58The thing is never to despair, never despair.
01:23:14Rise, rise.
01:23:38Adios, my dear Fopdoodles.
01:23:39Make a promise tonight to take yourself for better or worse.
01:23:43Take pride in your non-conformity.
01:23:44That's where your power comes.
01:23:46And remember what I always say, honey.
01:23:48Fate loves the fearless.
01:23:51We make plans.
01:23:53We follow through.
01:23:54Anything we want to do.
01:23:56Nothing ever gets in our way.
01:24:04We've got the plan.
01:24:07Don't need a hand.
01:24:10We don't flake out.
01:24:12We're in control.
01:24:13And we always make our goal.
01:24:15We do the work and we get paid.
01:24:19We got the...
01:24:21We don't.
01:24:21We don't.
01:24:22We don't.
01:24:22I want the kid to wake up.
01:24:22I don't like which way.
01:24:22I love your rein.
01:24:23I love you.