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Deputy Executive Editor Sim Leoi Leoi and Senior News Editor Razak Ahmad talk with Arnold Puyok, Associate Professor of Politics and Government Studies and Deputy Director of the Institute of Borneo Studies at Universiti Malaysia Sarawak (UNIMAS) to discuss Sarawak politics and how different it is from the peninsula.
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NewsTranscript
00:05Hello everyone, I'm Lui Lui and welcome to Pole Position.
00:09My colleague, Raza, and I are hosting this special series of podcasts in conjunction with the state polls.
00:15The Starawak State Assembly government has recently dissolved the State Assembly
00:19and this means that the race for the ballot box for Malaysia's largest state is on.
00:24Today, we have a special guest. Professor Anna Puyok is the Associate Professor of Politics and Government Studies
00:32and Deputy Director of the Institute of Bono Studies at University Malaysia-Sarawak, UNIMAS.
00:38Hello, Professor. Welcome to our program and welcome to The Star.
00:43I have to admit that when it comes to Sarawak politics, it's an entirely different country for all of us.
00:49So, how different is Sarawak politics from politics in Peninsular Malaysia?
00:55Who are the key players and what are the key issues?
00:58Yeah, it's good to be here and it's good to see both of you to talk about Sarawak, especially the
01:07Sarawak state election.
01:10You see, this election is interesting for me.
01:14I've been covering election in Sabah and Sarawak for quite some time now.
01:19What makes this particular election is important for me because this will be perhaps Abang Jo's last term as Premier
01:35of Sarawak.
01:37Because he said that this might be his last term as Premier of Sarawak.
01:41And also to see whether GPS can make a clean sweep.
01:48That's also possible because we only have like two opposition parties in this assembly.
01:55And there is a high possibility that they may be able to get perhaps one more seat to go to
02:04GPS.
02:04That is also a high possibility.
02:05Despite it being already having an overwhelming majority.
02:09Yes.
02:09So, obviously when we talk about election in Sarawak, the main issue of course are all local issues.
02:16We're talking about MS-63.
02:19We're talking about autonomy.
02:21Issues related to infrastructure in Sarawak.
02:26And what differentiates election in Sarawak and also election in Piliusullah Malaysia is that
02:31people do not talk about issues related to race or religion.
02:37If people campaign, right, they don't talk about all these issues related to TR.
02:43Generally speaking, what they are talking about when they are campaigning,
02:47they're talking about issues related to what Sarawak under GPS has done for Sarawak.
02:54Whether they are successful in fulfilling autonomy for Sarawak or in fulfilling MS-63 for Sarawak.
03:02So, those are the general issues that politicians are talking about.
03:08And also issues related to Sarawak versus Malaya.
03:13That's why in Sabah and Sarawak, you often hear people say orang Malaya.
03:18Kerajaan Malaya.
03:20The state versus Malaya.
03:22And this often feature a lot in Sarawak election, especially when political parties are campaigning.
03:34So, the issue of MA-63 is likely to be huge among the campaigners, among the politicians as well.
03:43Yes. And of course, this coming election, you only have like one big coalition, which is GPS.
03:52And in GPS, you see all local-based parties there.
03:58And the main challenges outside of GPS are parties like DAP.
04:05And parties like PBDS, especially in the DAP areas.
04:10But I'm not too sure if there are other parties contesting against GPS this time around.
04:15But the big players are GPS so far, PBDS, and as well as DAP.
04:24Especially in the urban Chinese majority area.
04:28Doctor, in terms of the political parties in Sarawak, operating in Sarawak,
04:36how do you view the popularity currently of the peninsula-based political parties in Sarawak?
04:45And their chances lah in the coming state election?
04:50Yeah, because Sarawak politics is very personalistic.
04:54That means people vote for the individual, people vote for the person, and not so much the party.
05:00So, if you have strong individuals, strong, strong personalities,
05:05leading parties like PKR and DAP, peninsula-based parties, right?
05:10There are chances for this party to make inroads, to make a strong presence.
05:14But if you do not have strong personalities, strong leaders to lead this peninsula-based parties,
05:21you will not be able to get support from the people.
05:25So, so far, because PKR does not have a strong leader in Sarawak,
05:31that's why you see PKR is not able to gain a lot of support.
05:37If you look at the seat of Sarawak, for instance, Ali Biju, right?
05:42He is from PN, still with PN, I think.
05:45It's a peninsula-based party.
05:47But he still has support.
05:49Because people like him.
05:52Because he has that personality.
05:54He can get the support of the people.
05:56So, basically, people vote him, support him, not because of his party,
06:01the peninsula-based party, but because of his personality.
06:07Okay.
06:09When it comes to Sarawak, we all know that Sarawak is mainly made up of rural seats,
06:14with vast distances between one's constituency to the next.
06:17How does that have an effect on the campaign, on how people vote during the state polls?
06:23Those days, it would be difficult.
06:26To campaign, especially in a rural area, because of issue of accessibility.
06:32But now with PN, right, it becomes much easier to campaign.
06:37And also because of internet coverage.
06:40Those days, there was very little coverage, right?
06:43But nowadays, if you go to the rural area of Sarawak,
06:47most of these areas are already covered.
06:48So, it's easy to communicate with the voters via WhatsApp, TikTok, or even podcast like this.
07:01So, it becomes much easier now.
07:03But there are still areas in Sarawak where you have to use boat or a plane to go there to
07:13campaign.
07:15I can mention areas like Balai, Katibas, Belagao, even Murum.
07:22You have to fly to go to this area in order to campaign and in order to bring in the
07:28ballot boxes.
07:30But overall, it is much easier now to campaign and to reach out to the voters.
07:37Especially those who are living in the rural area.
07:43Do you think social media, campaigning via social media will have as much of an impact in Sarawak as in
07:51Peninsular Malaysia?
07:53Or do you think voters in Sarawak still prefer meeting the politicians face-to-face?
07:58I want them to come and shake my hand.
08:02I think it's a combination of both.
08:04Based on my observation, most of the politicians in Sarawak,
08:08especially those who represent the rural area,
08:10they still prefer personal touch.
08:13It is still, for me, the most efficient, effective campaign approach.
08:20If you want to win the support of the people.
08:23It's still a must, something that you have to do.
08:26You have to be closer to the people.
08:30You have to shake hands.
08:31Pat them in the back.
08:33That is a main campaign approach used by most of the politicians in Sarawak.
08:40Social media is secondary.
08:44But if you go to areas like Kuching, urban area,
08:48of course social media is widely used.
08:53But when we talk about geography, right?
08:57I think GPS has the advantage.
09:00Obviously because they have the money, right?
09:03They have the logistic.
09:05And the grassroots leaders are obviously still under their control.
09:12Because campaigning in Sarawak,
09:14you have to have the influence over the grassroots leaders.
09:20Leaders like the Tuai Rumah,
09:22like the Penghulu,
09:23even the Kutua Kampung.
09:25So these are the people who are key supporters of GPS.
09:30So if you can control them,
09:33dominate over them,
09:34it's easier for you to get the support of the rural people.
09:39Doctor, what about in terms of voters who are not based in Sarawak,
09:48but who are based in Peninsula, for example.
09:52So these are outstation voters.
09:55So how big a group are they?
10:00And then how do parties in Sarawak engage with them
10:05and campaign with them?
10:07Is it, you know,
10:10are they an influential group for the Sarawak elections?
10:15Outstation voters who are based in...
10:17Yeah, it's a good question.
10:18Unfortunately, I do not have the data
10:20to show to you how many voters are outstation voters.
10:25But based on what GPS has been doing, right,
10:30in the last couple of years,
10:31they have this program
10:33where they go from one place to another,
10:36even in Semenanjung,
10:37to reach out to the voters
10:41or potential supporters outside of Kuching.
10:44They have this roadshow.
10:47Yes, exactly.
10:49So that is a way for them to promote,
10:53I mean, indirectly,
10:55to promote GPS
10:57and to promote Sarawak
10:59and to tell them what GPS has been doing for Sarawak.
11:04And also the fact that
11:05this election is held in December
11:07that will allow people to come,
11:11to come back during the holiday
11:13and to cast their vote.
11:16But I do not have solid data to show
11:19how many of these UNDI 18
11:23came out and cast their vote
11:25in the last election.
11:26But I was told
11:26the number was not that great.
11:29Yeah.
11:30So that is very interesting
11:31because we have a lot of UNDI 18 voters,
11:34new voters,
11:37going into the system,
11:39but not many of them
11:41came out and cast their vote.
11:43So this time around,
11:44it will be very interesting
11:45to see whether
11:47they really come out in numbers,
11:49in big numbers,
11:51and to vote.
11:53Right.
11:54Doctor,
11:55in terms of the influence,
11:58what the voters are influenced by,
12:01are the outstation voters in Peninsula,
12:05are they more influenced by
12:07bigger issues like national issues
12:10compared to the Sarawak-based voter?
12:13Yeah.
12:13Is there any difference
12:15in what they consider
12:18when they want to choose a candidate?
12:20Or are they basically the same in that
12:23at the end of the day,
12:24it is still the state and local issues
12:26that matter most?
12:27Yeah.
12:28Interesting.
12:28We did a focus group discussion
12:31among the UNDI 18 voters,
12:35the young voters, right?
12:37And voters who have lived
12:39in Peninsula Malaysia longer
12:41than they live in Sarawak.
12:45It seems like they have a broader view
12:49about Sarawak, about Malaysia.
12:52They have views about autonomy
12:55and about MS63,
12:56but not as strong as those
12:58who spend most of their time
13:02in Sarawak.
13:03And those who spend most of their time
13:05in Sarawak,
13:06they have a stronger view
13:08about MS63 and autonomy.
13:10But not those who stay longer
13:13outside of Sarawak,
13:15especially those who have studied here.
13:17Studied here,
13:18they work here.
13:19Their perception is more broad,
13:23saying that
13:25we still need Malaysia,
13:27we still need the federation
13:28to be stronger.
13:29But those who live in Sarawak
13:31longer,
13:32stay in Sarawak,
13:35their view is that
13:36perhaps it's time for Sarawak
13:38to be more autonomous,
13:39to be more independent.
13:41And some of them even
13:43have this idea that
13:45in the future,
13:46maybe Sarawak should be on its own.
13:51What has changed
13:53since Sarawak
13:53last held its state election?
13:55Has the priorities shifted
13:57for the Sarawak government?
14:00I think it's,
14:02under Abang Jo,
14:02it's more towards
14:07institutionalizing autonomy,
14:08which means
14:09making autonomy,
14:12translating autonomy
14:12into tangible results,
14:14so that people can see
14:16what is it about MSCC3
14:18that the government
14:19has been fighting for,
14:21right?
14:21Whereas during Anand's time,
14:23Anand talked a lot
14:26about Sabah first,
14:27autonomy,
14:28but perhaps because
14:29he did not have
14:30much time,
14:30right,
14:31to institutionalize autonomy.
14:35That is why Abang Jo
14:36took that opportunity
14:37to institutionalize it,
14:40right?
14:40So that
14:41autonomy can go
14:43hand in hand
14:44with the institution,
14:44even though
14:46perhaps he's no longer
14:47a premier after this,
14:49but the law
14:50is already there,
14:51the policy
14:52is already there
14:53for his successor
14:55to just implement.
14:56I think that is what
14:57Abang Jo is doing.
14:59And we see
15:00a lot of changes.
15:02For instance,
15:03the restoration
15:04of Article 1,
15:062,
15:06right?
15:07The transfer
15:08of strategic assets
15:10and critical infrastructure
15:12from the federal government
15:14to the state government
15:15and the change
15:16of the title
15:17from
15:17chief minister
15:19to premier.
15:20People say
15:21it's symbolic.
15:23Yeah.
15:23But for me,
15:24yes,
15:25it's symbolic,
15:26but it shows
15:27what it shows
15:28that
15:28for the first time
15:29in history,
15:31Sarawak is able
15:32to tell
15:32the whole country
15:33that
15:34Sarawak
15:35is not merely
15:36a state,
15:38right?
15:38It is a region,
15:39a region with its own
15:40premier,
15:41prime minister.
15:43So in Sarawak,
15:44they look at this
15:46as an attempt
15:47of Sarawak
15:47to be
15:48an equal partner.
15:50Even though
15:51equal partnership
15:52is being
15:53interpreted
15:54and defined
15:54differently
15:55by many people,
15:56right?
15:56Yeah.
15:56So a lot,
15:57a lot actually
15:57have changed,
15:59especially
15:59after
16:01the last election
16:03in 2021.
16:05I also noticed
16:06that when it comes
16:07to Abang Jo,
16:08he tends to focus
16:09a lot of
16:10his attention
16:11on Sarawak's
16:13economy,
16:13especially,
16:14you know,
16:14the green economy
16:15and he's like
16:16willing to push
16:17Sarawak forward
16:18based on
16:20the green economy,
16:21you know,
16:22things like
16:22hydrogen,
16:24you know,
16:24carbon,
16:25carbon markets.
16:27What do you
16:28think of that?
16:31I think
16:32what Sarawak
16:33is trying to do
16:34is not simply
16:35to assert
16:36its status,
16:40right,
16:40as a state
16:41that has
16:42more autonomy
16:42than the other
16:43states in
16:43Peninsular Malaysia.
16:45I think
16:46this is a
16:46preparation
16:46for Sarawak,
16:48not a preparation
16:48to become
16:50independent.
16:51Perhaps that
16:52will happen
16:53in 50 years
16:54or 100 years
16:55from now,
16:56not in our
16:57lifetime,
16:57maybe,
16:58right?
16:58But I think
16:59this is a
16:59preparation
17:00to allow
17:01Sarawak
17:01to be
17:02economically
17:03and financially
17:04independent
17:06because
17:07the reason
17:07why
17:09Sarawak
17:09can get
17:10more
17:11in terms
17:12of its
17:12autonomy
17:12from the
17:13federal
17:13government
17:13because
17:14the
17:14federal
17:15government
17:15needs
17:15Sarawak
17:16politically,
17:17right?
17:17The Borneo
17:18bloc,
17:18they call it,
17:19with Sarawak,
17:20right?
17:20Of course,
17:21the federal
17:21government,
17:22the unity
17:22government
17:23needs
17:23Sarawak's
17:24and Sabah's
17:25political
17:25support.
17:26But what
17:26happens if
17:27there are
17:27changes
17:28at the
17:28federal level
17:29in the
17:30coming election
17:30in
17:31GE 16,
17:32right?
17:32What
17:33happens if
17:34let's
17:34say
17:36the
17:37key
17:37players
17:38here
17:38when
17:39they
17:39form
17:39the
17:39government
17:39they
17:40can
17:40form
17:41with
17:41a
17:41simple
17:41majority
17:42and
17:42they
17:43do
17:43not
17:43need
17:43Sabah
17:43and
17:44Sarawak
17:45to support
17:47them,
17:47right?
17:47That's
17:47possible.
17:48And if
17:49that happens
17:50then perhaps
17:50autonomy
17:51will not
17:52be
17:54prioritized
17:54anymore.
17:55So I
17:56think
17:57this is
17:57just
17:57the way
17:58I look
17:58at it.
17:59I don't
18:00know what
18:00is in
18:00the mind
18:00of
18:01Abang Joe
18:02or
18:02GPS.
18:03But I
18:03think
18:03the reason
18:04why they
18:05are
18:05trying to
18:06do as
18:06much as
18:07they
18:07can
18:07in terms
18:08of
18:08institutionalizing
18:09autonomy,
18:10looking for
18:11strategic
18:11economic
18:13opportunities
18:14is because
18:15they want to
18:16prepare
18:16themselves
18:16to become
18:18economically
18:19and financially
18:19independent.
18:21So even
18:22if for
18:22instance
18:23the next
18:23federal
18:23government
18:24does not
18:24need
18:24their
18:25political
18:25support,
18:26they can
18:26still go
18:27on their
18:27own
18:27because
18:28they have
18:29the money,
18:29they have
18:30the resources,
18:31and they
18:32can even
18:34play their
18:35role as
18:36a regional
18:36player in
18:37ASEAN for
18:38instance.
18:38I think
18:39this is
18:40what
18:41Sarawak is
18:42trying to
18:43position
18:44itself as.
18:45Yeah,
18:46that's the
18:46right word
18:46to use,
18:47the position
18:47itself,
18:48not just
18:48within the
18:49federation,
18:50but within
18:51the context
18:51of the
18:52ASEAN region
18:53or beyond.
18:54Interesting.
18:56You know
18:57earlier in
18:57the podcast,
18:59you say that
19:00you believe
19:00that GPS
19:02will win
19:03one more
19:04seat in
19:04the state
19:05world?
19:05So far,
19:07so far,
19:07based on my
19:08current
19:09projection.
19:11But for
19:11me,
19:13two-thirds
19:14is already
19:15assured
19:16for GPS,
19:17right?
19:18Two-thirds,
19:18that means
19:19more than
19:2050,
19:2154,
19:2155,
19:22two-thirds,
19:22right?
19:23Out of
19:2382.
19:24But it's
19:25a matter of
19:26how many of
19:26the two-thirds
19:27units that
19:27GPS is
19:28going to
19:28get this
19:29time.
19:32Going into
19:33one or two
19:35opposition
19:36areas,
19:37for me,
19:38is a
19:39possibility.
19:41Yeah.
19:42So,
19:44what's your
19:45question again?
19:45I was going
19:46to say that
19:47you were
19:48saying that
19:48they are
19:49likely to get
19:50one more
19:50seat.
19:51there have
19:52been reports
19:53about the
19:53rift between
19:55the different
19:55component
19:56parties in
19:56GPS.
19:57How are
19:58they going
19:58to resolve
19:58that and
20:00then make
20:00sure that
20:01their campaign
20:01is strong
20:02and they
20:02will be
20:02able to
20:03win back
20:04the two-thirds
20:05and more?
20:06If I'm
20:07not mistaken,
20:08I heard
20:08Abang Jo
20:09said yesterday,
20:11he said
20:12that in
20:13terms of
20:13seat
20:13negotiation,
20:14they are
20:15going to
20:15stick with
20:16the arrangement
20:17whereby
20:18those who
20:19won the
20:19seats before
20:19would be
20:20retained as
20:22candidates.
20:23So,
20:23there is no
20:23issue whether
20:24or not
20:24the seats
20:25are traditionally
20:26held by
20:27other parties.
20:28I mean,
20:29I know what
20:29you're saying.
20:30You're talking
20:30about the
20:31rift between
20:32PDP and
20:33SCPP,
20:33right?
20:34SCPP said
20:35this is our
20:36seat.
20:36Yes,
20:37that always
20:38happens
20:38whenever it
20:39comes to
20:40seat negotiation.
20:41I think
20:42GPS,
20:43Abang Jo
20:44would go
20:44for
20:46winnability.
20:48If you
20:48are a
20:49winnable
20:49candidate,
20:50you can
20:51win this
20:51seat,
20:52there is
20:52evidence for
20:53you to
20:53be able to
20:54do that,
20:54then that
20:55seat is
20:55yours.
20:56I think
20:57that's the
20:57way for
20:58them to
20:58resolve the
21:00conflict.
21:00Or even
21:01perhaps they
21:02go to
21:03what
21:04Anand Satiam
21:05did before,
21:06getting someone
21:07to contest
21:08as a direct
21:09candidate,
21:11meaning direct
21:11GPS candidate.
21:13You don't
21:13represent any
21:14party,
21:15any individual
21:16party,
21:16but you
21:17represent GPS,
21:18a direct
21:19candidate of
21:19GPS,
21:20perhaps.
21:21But that
21:22was not
21:22done in
21:22the last
21:23election,
21:23was it?
21:24No,
21:25I don't
21:25think so.
21:26So I
21:27think that's
21:27the way
21:29forward for
21:29GPS.
21:31That's a
21:32very simple
21:32strategy to
21:33use.
21:35Okay,
21:35now we
21:36know that
21:38on the
21:38question of
21:39redelineation,
21:40the
21:42redelineated
21:43seats will
21:43not come
21:44into effect
21:44this election,
21:46but it
21:47will in
21:47the next.
21:48So would
21:48that make a
21:49difference
21:49particularly for
21:50GPS this
21:51time around
21:52when it
21:53comes to
21:53campaigning?
21:54Or do
21:54they have
21:55any issue
21:57they want
21:57to charge
21:58on?
22:00No,
22:01I don't
22:01think there
22:02will be any
22:03issue with
22:03regards to
22:04that.
22:04Perhaps the
22:05only issue
22:06with regards
22:06to these
22:07additional
22:07seats is
22:08that who's
22:09going to
22:10get the
22:10seats?
22:11Who's going
22:11to get
22:11the seats?
22:12Which
22:12party?
22:13PBB or
22:15other
22:15component
22:16parties,
22:16right?
22:17And because
22:19even among
22:20the leaders
22:21in GPS,
22:23they are
22:24positioning
22:25themselves
22:26to get
22:27more,
22:28right?
22:28Not only
22:28PBB but
22:29and also
22:30if you
22:30talk about
22:31PBB and
22:32how many
22:33of the
22:35seats will
22:36go to
22:37the Iban
22:37areas,
22:38representing
22:39the Iban
22:39areas and
22:40how many
22:40will go to
22:41the Malay
22:42Malanau
22:43areas for
22:44instance.
22:45So that
22:45can also
22:46potentially
22:47become an
22:48issue of
22:49contention.
22:49I see.
22:50And yet
22:51Abang Jo
22:51said that
22:52this is
22:52his last
22:52term.
22:53So do
22:54you see
22:55many
22:56candidates
22:56trying to
22:57portray
22:57themselves
22:58as the
22:58successors
22:59to him
22:59during this
23:01campaign?
23:02To
23:03portray
23:04or to
23:05project
23:05themselves
23:05as
23:06successors,
23:06I don't
23:06think anybody
23:07is doing
23:08that now.
23:09But to
23:09tell
23:10GPS,
23:11to tell
23:11Abang Jo
23:12that they
23:12are willing
23:12to defend
23:13their seat,
23:14yes,
23:14you see a
23:15lot of
23:15candidates
23:15are doing
23:16that.
23:17But to
23:18portray
23:19themselves
23:19to be
23:19the next
23:20premier?
23:22Would
23:22there be a
23:22poster boy?
23:23You usually
23:24have a
23:25poster boy,
23:25so would
23:26there be a
23:26poster boy
23:27for
23:27Super
23:27Polish?
23:29A
23:29dark
23:29horse,
23:30you
23:30mean?
23:30Okay.
23:32And who
23:33might the
23:34dark
23:34horse be?
23:36It's
23:37difficult to
23:37say,
23:37but by
23:38looking at,
23:40if you look
23:41at hierarchy
23:41in PBB,
23:42right,
23:43they always
23:43look at the
23:44hierarchy.
23:44The tradition
23:45is that
23:47who is the
23:48most senior
23:49in PBB?
23:50that is
23:51the person
23:51who is
23:52likely to
23:52be the
23:52next
23:53one.
23:54Right?
23:55Even
23:56though there's
23:56this issue
23:57of a
23:59dayak
23:59perhaps can
24:00become
24:00the next
24:02premier.
24:02I wrote
24:02about this
24:03in my
24:05article
24:06published
24:06in
24:07Fulcrum
24:08saying that
24:11potentially
24:12there might
24:12be in
24:13Sarawak's
24:14history
24:15after
24:16Kalong
24:16Ningkan
24:17that
24:17Sarawak
24:18will see
24:18a dayak
24:19premier.
24:24Is there
24:26any sort
24:26of
24:27arrangement
24:27or informal
24:28agreement
24:29among the
24:31leaders
24:32of the
24:33current
24:34GPS
24:35going back
24:36all the
24:36way
24:36that the
24:37chief
24:38minister
24:38position
24:39be rotated
24:40among
24:41the key
24:42ethnic
24:43communities
24:44and the
24:44leaders
24:45that
24:45represent
24:45them?
24:46How does
24:47it work?
24:48In theory
24:49that has
24:49already
24:50been the
24:50case
24:52going
24:52back
24:53by
24:54seniority
24:55but of
24:57course
24:57it's just
24:58what you
24:59see in
24:59theory
24:59but
25:03somebody
25:03can just
25:04be chosen
25:06as
25:07premier
25:09even
25:09though
25:09some
25:10people
25:10say
25:10that
25:10the
25:11next
25:11premier
25:11should
25:11be
25:12someone
25:13who
25:13is
25:13willing
25:13to
25:14continue
25:15with
25:16the
25:16legacy
25:16of
25:17Abang
25:18Joe
25:18Arnan
25:19strong
25:20on
25:21Sarawak
25:21autonomy
25:22strong
25:23on
25:24protecting
25:24Sarawak
25:25as a
25:25distinct
25:26state
25:27within
25:27Malaysia
25:27if that
25:28person
25:28is
25:29willing
25:29to do
25:29that
25:29he
25:31might
25:31be
25:31the
25:32next
25:32one
25:32but
25:32of
25:32course
25:33there's
25:33also
25:33the
25:34argument
25:34that
25:35that
25:35person
25:35has
25:36to
25:37be
25:37also
25:38friendly
25:38to
25:39the
25:40federal
25:40government
25:45there are
25:47various
25:47criteria
25:48that
25:49the
25:50leader
25:50of
25:50Sarawak
25:51will
25:51need
25:51to
25:51fulfill
25:53but
25:54with
25:55this
25:56state
25:56post
25:56do
25:57you
25:57see
25:58any
25:59particular
26:01politician
26:01that
26:02is
26:02catching
26:02your
26:02eye
26:03professor
26:03to
26:04be
26:04the
26:04next
26:05what
26:05maybe
26:09but
26:10I
26:10can
26:10only
26:11mention
26:11maybe
26:12two
26:13or
26:13three
26:13names
26:13again
26:13going
26:14by
26:15convention
26:16what's
26:16happening
26:16in
26:17Sarawak
26:18or in
26:18GPS
26:18people
26:19talk
26:19about
26:19Awang Tengah
26:20as the
26:20next
26:20one
26:21because
26:21he's
26:22the
26:22most
26:22senior
26:22leader
26:24and
26:25apart
26:25from
26:25Awang Tengah
26:26you also
26:26have
26:27Douglas
26:28Douglas
26:29is also
26:30a senior
26:30guy
26:31representing
26:32the
26:32Pasaka
26:33wing
26:33in
26:33PBB
26:34and
26:34he has
26:35also
26:35been
26:35a
26:35federal
26:36minister
26:36at
26:36one
26:37time
26:37yes
26:38so
26:38and
26:41don't
26:41forget
26:41you also
26:42have
26:42people
26:42like
26:43Karim
26:44Karim
26:44has
26:44been
26:45quite
26:46loyal
26:47to
26:47Abang Joe
26:48he has
26:48been there
26:48for quite
26:49some
26:49time
26:50so
26:50I
26:51think
26:51these
26:51are
26:51the
26:51three
26:51names
26:52that
26:52have
26:52been
26:53mentioned
26:55even
26:56though
26:56I
26:56have
26:56my
26:56own
26:56candidate
26:57which
26:57I
26:57don't
26:57want
26:57to
26:57say
26:59is
27:00there
27:00a
27:00reason
27:02why
27:02you're
27:02not
27:03revealing
27:03your
27:04candidate
27:04talk
27:04about
27:05it
27:05over
27:05coffee
27:07when
27:08it
27:08comes
27:08to
27:08GPS
27:09it
27:10looks
27:10sad
27:11to
27:11win
27:11two
27:11thirds
27:12again
27:12and
27:12more
27:13what
27:14do
27:14you
27:15think
27:15about
27:15the
27:16opposition
27:16parties
27:17do
27:17you
27:17think
27:17they
27:18still
27:18have
27:19a
27:19role
27:19to
27:19play
27:20or
27:20do
27:21you
27:21think
27:21they
27:21will
27:21make
27:21much
27:22difference
27:22in
27:22this
27:23campaign
27:23no
27:25well
27:25you
27:26let's
27:27look at
27:28the
27:28PBDS
27:29for
27:29instance
27:29right
27:30they
27:30are
27:31trying
27:31to
27:32promote
27:33this
27:33issue
27:34of
27:34dayakism
27:35they
27:35don't
27:36use
27:36the
27:36word
27:36dayakism
27:36but
27:37it
27:37seems
27:37like
27:37the
27:38issues
27:39that
27:39they
27:39are
27:39trying
27:40to
27:40promote
27:40especially
27:41among
27:41the
27:41dayak
27:42areas
27:42are
27:43issues
27:43related
27:43to
27:45the
27:45perceived
27:46under
27:47representation
27:47of
27:49the
27:49dayak
27:49right
27:50they
27:50say
27:50dayak
27:51have
27:51been
27:52marginalized
27:53politically
27:54and
27:54economically
27:55right
27:55these
27:56are
27:56the
27:56main
27:56issue
27:57that
27:57they
27:57are
27:57trying
27:57to
27:57promote
27:58but
28:00there
28:01is
28:01no
28:02systematic
28:02attempt
28:03to
28:03campaign
28:04really
28:04really
28:05well
28:05especially
28:06among
28:06the
28:07dayak
28:07people
28:08they
28:09only
28:09appear
28:10closer
28:11to
28:11election
28:12time
28:12and
28:13I'm
28:13sure
28:13even
28:13after
28:14this
28:14there
28:14will
28:15be
28:15perhaps
28:16a handful
28:17of
28:17other
28:17parties
28:18trying
28:19to
28:19say
28:19that
28:19look
28:20we
28:20also
28:21want
28:21to
28:21provide
28:21the
28:22alternative
28:22but
28:22you
28:23cannot
28:23say
28:23you
28:24are
28:24providing
28:24the
28:25alternative
28:25closer
28:26to
28:26the
28:26election
28:26time
28:27it
28:28has
28:28to
28:28be
28:28sustained
28:29right
28:29since
28:29the
28:30very
28:30beginning
28:31so that's
28:32what
28:32you see
28:33in
28:33Sarawak
28:34you don't
28:34have
28:36you don't
28:37see a
28:37strong
28:38political
28:38party
28:38starting
28:39from the
28:40very
28:40beginning
28:41and
28:41even if
28:42they say
28:42they want
28:43to provide
28:43the
28:43alternative
28:44but you
28:44don't
28:44see any
28:47solid
28:48substantial
28:49alternative
28:49that they
28:49can provide
28:51to the
28:52state
28:52government
28:52right
28:53so
28:54I mean
28:55if you
28:55talk to
28:56most of
28:57the
28:57people
28:57in
28:57Sarawak
28:59some
28:59think
29:00that
29:00Sarawak
29:01still
29:01need
29:02an
29:02opposition
29:03because
29:03GPS
29:03is
29:04too
29:04strong
29:04you
29:05still
29:05need
29:06to
29:06have
29:06an
29:06opposition
29:06there
29:07to
29:07provide
29:07check
29:07and
29:07balance
29:08but
29:09they
29:09do
29:09not
29:09see
29:09that
29:10in
29:11the
29:11current
29:11opposition
29:12parties
29:13they
29:13don't
29:14see
29:14that
29:14they
29:14do
29:15not
29:16see
29:16anyone
29:16talking
29:17about
29:17or
29:18anyone
29:18disputing
29:19what
29:19GPS
29:19is
29:19doing
29:19policy
29:20wise
29:21right
29:21they're
29:22talking
29:22about
29:22green
29:22technology
29:23but
29:23what's
29:23the
29:24loophole
29:24in
29:25what
29:26way
29:26can
29:26we
29:26do
29:27things
29:27better
29:28the
29:29voters
29:29don't
29:29see
29:29that
29:30so
29:31that's
29:31the
29:31problem
29:32so
29:32you
29:32don't
29:32see
29:33a
29:33surprise
29:34or
29:34upset
29:34in
29:35the
29:35urban
29:35seats
29:35as
29:36well
29:39perhaps
29:40in
29:40one or
29:42two
29:42seats
29:42in
29:42the
29:42urban
29:42areas
29:43in
29:43the
29:43Chinese
29:43areas
29:45I'm
29:46interested
29:46to
29:46see
29:47whether
29:47there
29:48will
29:48be
29:48a
29:48swing
29:48from
29:49DAP
29:50to
29:50SUPP
29:51for
29:52instance
29:52right
29:52because
29:53they
29:53see
29:54DAP
29:54is
29:54not
29:55really
29:58DAP
29:59has
29:59lost
29:59its
30:01perhaps
30:02its
30:02credibility
30:03its
30:04star
30:04status
30:05right
30:05so they
30:07see that
30:07is happening
30:08DAP
30:09is like
30:09going down
30:10yeah
30:11yeah
30:11in
30:11peninsula
30:11Malaysia
30:13and DAP
30:14lost
30:15in
30:15Sabah
30:15right
30:16so
30:17will
30:18that
30:18affect
30:19the
30:19Chinese
30:19in
30:19Kuching
30:20in
30:21Sarawak
30:21this
30:22will be
30:23a very
30:23interesting
30:23time to
30:24see
30:24whether
30:24that's
30:25happening
30:26and whether
30:27they will
30:27support
30:27GPS
30:29yeah
30:29because
30:30some
30:30people
30:31look at
30:31GPS
30:32it has
30:32been quite
30:33consistent
30:33in
30:34protecting
30:35Sarawak
30:36trying to
30:36get more
30:37autonomy
30:37for the
30:37state
30:38yeah
30:39and things
30:40like that
30:40yeah
30:40okay
30:41all right
30:42yeah
30:43all right
30:44I
30:44I think
30:45with that
30:45we have
30:46come to
30:46the end
30:47of our
30:47podcast
30:48is there
30:49anything
30:49last minute
30:50would you
30:50like to
30:51share
30:51with us
30:52professor
30:53any last
30:54minute
30:54of wisdom
30:55that you
30:55can give
30:56us
30:56to better
30:57understand
30:57Sarawak
30:58politics
31:00we have
31:01to go to
31:01the ground
31:01you have to
31:03go to
31:03Sarawak
31:05one cannot
31:05be an
31:06amceh
31:07political
31:08analyst
31:08or an amceh
31:10researcher
31:11you have to
31:11go to
31:12the ground
31:13go to
31:14the rumah
31:14panjang
31:14talk to
31:15the tuai
31:15rumah
31:16to the
31:16pembulu
31:17even to
31:17the voters
31:19in the
31:20rural
31:21Sarawak
31:21in order
31:21to understand
31:23what is
31:24it that
31:24the voters
31:26want
31:26I see
31:27okay
31:28thank you
31:29very much
31:29for your
31:29time
31:30professor
31:30and with
31:31that
31:31we come
31:32to an
31:32end
31:32autopodcast
31:33you
31:36you
31:36you
31:38you
31:45you
31:47you