- 6 minutes ago
Since she exploded on the style scene 15 years ago, Alexa Chung has evolved into the ultimate bad girl in an It Girl world. Which is exactly why we wanted to talk to her about her successful new role as fashion designer, her enduring unwillingness to be fake (ever!), and her constant navigating through a fancy fashion industry as the ultimate outsider-insider. Then, after you've listened to this episode, check out Refinery29's UnCOVER profile for more.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. Usually when we talk about the defining characteristics of an it-girl,
00:31it's tough to put your finger on exactly the magic ingredient that catapults a newcomer to
00:35international stardom. Sure, it totally helps to be effortlessly beautiful, stylish, be in all the
00:41right places and know all the right people. But it-girl magic is in fact way more mysterious than
00:46that. The late, great Vogue editor, Diana Vreeland, once said, the only real elegance is in the mind.
00:53If you've got that, the rest really comes from it, which is where Alexa Chung comes in.
00:58Quick story. Many years ago, when I was paging through the latest issue of British Vogue,
01:03I came upon a young woman whom I didn't recognize. She wasn't a celebrity or a model or a fashion
01:08designer. But even in her then, unknowable way, she was already iconic. And she still is.
01:14Over the last 15 years, she's made a serious name for herself as the host of an MTV series,
01:21as a best-selling author, and as a contributing editor at British Vogue. And on social media,
01:26perhaps the heartland of it-girl territory, Alexa Chung prefers a less curated approach,
01:32skipping over slick lifestyle scenes and jawline-enhancing selfies in favor of cheeky
01:38outtakes, bingo games, and amorous odes to her close friends. It's this down-to-earth attitude
01:44that continually sets her apart and has made us feel a certain kinship with Alexa Chung. Someone
01:49whose style never feels overly affected or underly appreciated. Which is why the addition of fashion
01:55designer to her arsenal of skills is pretty much long overdue. While Chung has guest design collections
02:01for brands like Mulberry and AG Jeans, the eponymous Alexa Chung collection of clothing
02:05is all her, and already much in demand. Shortly after launching last spring, certain tailored
02:12pantsuits and embroidered mini-dresses sold out fast. And on the eve of her second collection
02:17launching, we're seeing Chung expand far beyond it-girl proportions. Someone not just comfortable
02:22in front of the lens, but running her whole damn show. In fact, she's no longer an it-girl.
02:28She's an it-woman. And even if we can't always put our finger on what it is, we can always
02:34count
02:34on Alexa Chung to show us how it's done. Alexa, welcome to Unstyled. But really quick,
02:45you have a funny story about your neighbors here in New York. Well, there's an older lady that lives
02:51directly below me. She's so nice, and I don't know her name. However, recently I came back from a trip
02:56to
02:56London, and as I walked in, they went, oh my god, here she is. And then she said, she's a
03:02model,
03:02she's on all the posters, but she doesn't look like one. And I was like, what? Let me explain
03:08it-girl to you, woman. Well, actually, that's a perfect segue to talk about the phenomenon of the
03:15it-girl. I remember seeing you in British Vogue, like, I don't know, 15 years ago, maybe, probably in
03:20like a party roundup. And I remember zooming in on you, and I was like, who's she? And you just
03:25automatically looked so different to me, because I think that, especially in those kinds of party
03:31events, you know, sort of everyone always looks kind of the same. Yeah. And they're always kind of
03:37like super styled. But you, even in the very beginning, even though I didn't know who you were
03:42and what you did, why you were actually at this famous party. But I remember thinking you looked
03:47really interesting, and you looked like you'd styled yourself. And you just like really stood
03:50out to me. And I remember just following your career, and really just being interested in your
03:55point of view and your voice. Thanks. Oh, you're welcome. Well, I can tell you why it looks different
04:00at the parties. It was because I don't think I had a handle on what I was even attending at
04:04the
04:04beginning. And I was on TV, and I just started a music show. And my friend Ami worked as an
04:10intern at
04:11Luella. And she was like, oh, they'd like you to come to this party. And I was like, I know
04:15she makes
04:15nice dresses. I can't believe they would want me to go to that. That seems weird. So yeah, I mean,
04:20we looked odd because we weren't meant to be there. I think everyone's sort of discovery stories are
04:24always interesting. Do you have one? I do. Actually, when I was 14, I took an art class. And then
04:30in my
04:30lunchtime, I took a textiles course, because I really liked fashion. And we went to this thing called
04:36the clothes show, which is kind of a trade show in the UK, and was scouted by my now modeling
04:43agent,
04:43Sarah Leon, and actually didn't end up booking me or whatever, taking me on their board. And then I
04:49went to the Reading Music Festival and actually eaten some chocolate brownies, because I was like,
04:54I love chocolate brownies, only later to discover that they were hash brownies. And so I was stoned
04:59in the corner of a comedy tent, like laughing my ass off. And this woman came over to me and
05:04was like,
05:05you're lucky you didn't die.
05:06Yeah, ingested a lot.
05:08Yeah. So that's how I got scouted. I was just like wearing a flower crown back in the day,
05:15in the comedy tent of a music festival, which seems about right.
05:19And you've actually told some interesting stories about your experiences at modeling over the years,
05:24one in particular that stands out that you did. I remember reading about it and thinking like it
05:28was really astonishing, but also incredibly true and sobering about the sort of disparity in terms of
05:34how women and men are treated.
05:35Yeah. Well, I was also a teenager. I mean, I started, after being scouted, I started modeling
05:40at 15. And I was quite shy, actually, as a teenager. And I think sort of developed this bravado
05:46where I would turn up to these places and be doing uncomfortable things and sort of not know how to
05:51deal with it. But that one wasn't that bad. They were actually very sweet on the day. It was an
05:56editorial. It was just an underwear shot. And I looked around and I was just in my pants. And there
06:01was all these grownups, fully dressed, taking my picture, mainly men. And I suddenly felt like
06:06really weird about it. So I said, if I'm going to be in my underwear, you know, some of you
06:11have
06:11to strip too. And they were like, all right. And they were pretty nice about it. So I had half
06:15the
06:15crew like stripped down. And then at the beginning of the magazine, they wrote, they say never work
06:20with animals or children, but we'll add models to that list today.
06:25Really? That's incredible.
06:27I mean, it was quite funny of them. You know, I had quite an innocent and nice upbringing. And
06:32then I was on shoots in London, test shoots, you know, the whole process is quite odd. If you think
06:37about it, you're going to a stranger's house with a book of photographs of yourself, asking them if
06:43they think you're beautiful. It's just like, what?
06:46I mean, and to think that you're a teenager, and then to actually go through that is probably really
06:51difficult. It's weird. But equally, you know, that started me on a path that then I ended up
06:56in this position where I do have lots of wonderful things in my life. So it wasn't it was hardly
06:59the
07:00most traumatic job to do. But I that said, I don't think I if I had a daughter, I would
07:05let her
07:05do it.
07:06But you also have a really, you seem to have a really strong constitution. So I feel like for
07:11you to actually speak up on that wallpaper set and say that is like pretty takes it does take
07:16balls.
07:17Yeah, but that was kind of a one off. To be honest, one of the skills I learned in
07:20modeling was to shut up and speak when I was spoken to. And I think I was quite professional
07:26about modeling, even at a young age, I would attend the castings on time, and I would complete
07:31the sheet. And I sort of was quite dorky about my approach to it, you know, whereas nowadays,
07:36I think the good thing about social media is that it does celebrate more diversity and is
07:42a bit more inclusive. And suddenly, these girls are not only judged on their, you know, physical
07:50beauty, but also their personality. And I think the community would be a bit more interesting
07:53now to walk around in. Whereas when I was modeling, I sort of didn't have any mates. And I was
07:58felt
07:58quite isolated.
08:00You also told me a story once, we were talking about how challenging it can be going to these
08:05sort of big fashion events that feel super exclusive. And then you got there, and they
08:10were kind of shitty to you. But because you're a professional, you know, sort of just like,
08:14you know, made the rounds. But I remember feeling so surprised that you felt like an
08:19outsider. What do you think about that?
08:21So as a TV presenter, right, I got this job doing fashion rocks coverage. And so I was flown
08:27to Paris and asked to interview Valentino, Karl Lagerfeld. And I was really nervous because
08:32I didn't know what to ask fashion people. I knew how to interview musicians, but I didn't
08:35really know anything about the fashion industry at that point. So I kind of always felt like
08:39even though I was modeling as a teenager, I was doing like teen magazines and cheesy
08:43things. It was never really high fashion. Then when through television, I got this break
08:47into fashion through the back door. I think that sort of established how I felt about my
08:51relationship to the industry. I never felt like I was someone that was really in the
08:56club, sort of had snuck in somehow by mistake or something. You know, I was like, oh my God,
09:02this is a terrible error. They don't know what they're doing.
09:05And then also recently, Lucinda Chambers' incredible essay that she wrote, she really
09:11was calling out the fashion industry for notoriously being a whole operation that really
09:17makes people feel like shit about themselves. And I think that your new line, the Alexa
09:22Chung collection, is kind of an interesting example of this new direction of people creating
09:28collections, creating pieces, you know, that are really personally connected to an identity,
09:33to a person's history.
09:34Yeah, but I mean, I guess we are at a moment where things need to be shaken up. And I
09:40don't
09:40understand why people observe rules so much, like obviously, for social order, etc. But when
09:46it comes to the structure of the fashion industry, just because things have been done that way
09:50for a certain amount of time, doesn't mean it has to be done that way. To certain areas
09:54of the world, you still have to play that game. But equally, it seems to me like there's
09:59now this more direct conduit for conversation between you and an audience. You don't have
10:04to observe the same sort of structure.
10:06And I would say like, you know, I'm frequently interviewed and asked what trends I'm feeling
10:11now or even yesterday, someone said, Oh, you know, name a six must have items. And I said,
10:16I disagree with this idea that anyone must have anything. So I think that kind of notion
10:22that they push in, particularly women's magazines, also men's, I guess, is a bit annoying.
10:29I think what she said, there was a lot of truth to it. And I'm sure she's going to go
10:32on to do lots
10:32of incredible things. But I also thought it was interesting that you happen to be on the cover,
10:37you know, of that particular issue, because I think that you are probably one of the most
10:41unconventional people they've probably ever had on the cover of that magazine. You were sort of
10:45always this outsider insider.
10:47Yeah. But on that particular shoot, I get what she was saying. There was a, you know,
10:53a number of shots that we did that all could have been a great cover. And then they went for
10:58this one,
10:59which happened to be a sponsor. And I guess she was using it to highlight an issue that happens a
11:06lot, which is where you have to make a decision between where the money is coming from and where
11:10the creative juice is. And in that respect, she was probably disappointed that they went for that
11:14one. That said, I still think it's a nice cover. So it's a great cover. And I think that that
11:20tension
11:20between art and commerce is really important, because I think that as creative people, we need
11:25that in order to thrive and function and reach people. I mean, a lot of my best outfits have come
11:30out of a solution of having to wear at least one of those items, and how to make that one
11:35bad thing
11:36look all right. Yeah, of course. You know, I mean, I think that everybody does party, you have to wear
11:41this. And I'm like, Oh, shit, that looks disgusting. All right, I'll put some hot pants
11:45on and try and dress it down. So a lot of I mean, I don't think hot pants solves everything,
11:51doesn't it? It used to it now sort of just creates a new kind of ass problem for me.
12:05Going back to your social following, and the fact that it's very reflective of your vibe and your
12:12voice, knowing that you want to reach a consumer, I'm assuming a lot of those are the people that,
12:17you know, follow you on Instagram.
12:18Yeah, they are. But you know, I'm really shit at replying. I don't I know you're meant to have
12:22conversations on that thing. But I rarely, I know, I'm always told you, you have to reply
12:28and you have to say, first, it's your building, you know, you're not friends with people in your
12:31building, you don't know that woman downstairs, her name. Well, I don't know, we can work on that.
12:36Do you know what it is? It's that I, I can't do anything that feels inauthentic. It makes me feel
12:40physically sick. And when you see people tweeting, or companies like putting a sentence under their
12:47Instagram image, image, and it's like, how are you guys feeling today? Or which one do you
12:51prefer? To me, that seems inauthentic and a quite cheap way to instigate or agitate
12:58engagement. Yeah, exactly engagement. And that's when I feel gross and like a slick brand. And I
13:04would rather not do that. So instead, I'll spend, you know, hours creating a weird Instagram story
13:09about a fake band called Chuff Nuts, as we did the other day. I mean, like, I still don't really
13:15think of my Instagram as a portal to sales. I've never done the like, will you hold this
13:22Fanta Limon and say how much you're enjoying your summer at Whispering Angel? Like, it's
13:28Yes, I understand. And it feels extremely contrived.
13:32Well, and also just like, that's the planet now, is it like I watched reality bites recently
13:38when there still used to be a distinction between yuppies and capitalism.
13:41The scenes in the gap are so good. Right.
13:43Janine Garofalo folding sweaters in the gap is really, yes, really what a woman.
13:48But you know, that movie, that's kind of like the last bastion of people remembering that
13:52it was us versus them. And now it's all become this kind of melee of it's all become okay.
13:58Even if it's a brand you really believe in, and you and you love and you have full creative
14:02control over how it's being depicted.
14:04Yeah, I just again, I just feel like it's inauthentic to my vibe.
14:07So pure.
14:08Such a pure woman. No, I just feel like it's like a bit like icky. I see them on other
14:14people's
14:14ones. And I'm like, Oh, I do understand what you mean about that. You know, social media
14:19and all its varied forms has become a means of just constant exploitation.
14:25Now we live in a world where it's expected that anyone with over a certain amount of
14:30followers on Instagram are probably flogging us some kind of product.
14:33You know, I think it's good to have boundaries about like, you know, what feels good for
14:36you and what doesn't. I'm sure there's a lot of pressure.
14:39But there's also no shade anymore. Like people don't think it's a bad, whereas it used to
14:42be awful for overexposure or being connected to too many different brand things. Now it's
14:48celebrated, right?
14:48Well, I think that I mean, I think that's interesting. But it's also kind of the evolution
14:53of woman as a brand. And making good choices is obviously important for enduring in the
14:59long run. But let's go back to the collection. So tell me just like how I'm here. And I'm
15:05slagging off people selling stuff on their social media channels, refusing to talk about my fashion
15:10No, it's going to tearing her hair out.
15:13No, but I think that there's a lot of truth to that. I mean, you have access to any clothes,
15:18you know, any designer pieces, any vintage, anything that you want. Why did you want to
15:22put a collection out in the world?
15:23I don't know, other than it was a feeling. It's very odd, because there's not really a
15:27tangible or concrete argument for it. I just literally was like, then that's what I do next.
15:32It was like an instinctive sort of, well, of course that happens then. Yeah, I mean, when I was
15:38a teenager, and I was going to those castings, I would sew my own skirts and like make my own
15:43weird wrap dresses out of my mom's scarves, until the agency told me they were completely
15:48heinous and to stop wearing that shit. It's a very odd existence, this.
15:52Well, it is. But I also think that wanting to start a line based on a feeling is actually
15:57a very good reason. In a lot of ways, we should trust our instincts more. And I think sometimes
16:01because there's a lot of pressure to make marketable moves, your instinct kind of gets pushed
16:06aside sometimes. But I think that Oprah always says that when you make a decision based on
16:11your intuition and your instinct, it will never steer you wrong.
16:15Wow. I love Oprah for that. I think as well, it still feels like fun. I guess we're right
16:21at the beginning of it, though. But I just wanted to have more autonomy over my own personal time,
16:27have somewhere to go every day. And yeah, like settling down by starting something up seems like
16:33the way to go. And do you see it kind of expanding in the way that maybe like some other
16:38people have
16:39kind of expanded their product lines into these sort of whole lifestyles?
16:43I don't know. I literally can't think of anyone to compare it to, which is good and bad, I guess.
16:50But like, I just don't really want to have any formula in mind. I want to kind of surf it
16:55and see
16:55which way it takes us. Like if we suddenly close the clothing part and start a ceramics company that
17:01make ceramic headphones for babies, that might happen.
17:04I was going to ask you that next. I had that in a question. Like, what about ceramic
17:08headphones for babies?
17:10Yeah.
17:11Is that in your future?
17:12Maybe we'll revive pop swatches. I don't know. Or make tiny buckets to be turned upside down for
17:17heels. This is what I hate about the box where it's like...
17:21You're like an entrepreneurial anarchist.
17:23Yeah. I just I find restriction annoying and like I constantly kick against what I'm expected to do.
17:29So, I mean, this is what I prepared, you know, the company for. I was like, well, there are the
17:34chances are...
17:35Get ready.
17:35...that I'll probably get annoyed and start wanting to open a like, you know, slip and slide wing.
17:40Do you know what? The world needs more slip and slides. I don't know.
17:51So when you have like three million people following, you know, your every sort of move
17:56on Instagram, do you even need conventional platforms like Vogue or television shows? Do
18:02you feel like you still want to be recognized in those worlds?
18:05Well, it's difficult to say because, you know, I started through a more established traditional
18:12path because I was writing for British Vogue and I was on Channel 4 and I had a show on
18:17MTV.
18:18So I already did the more established versions of what you're meant to do. And then social media
18:23was like kind of coursing its way up through the ranks at that exact same time. So I feel like,
18:30you know, I have already experienced the more legitimate form of things. So perhaps it doesn't
18:35matter as much. And that's what makes this an interesting time.
18:37So the collection's out. You're working on the second season?
18:40No. So the way it works. So we started a year ago on this. And so collection one is now
18:45launched.
18:46Collection two...
18:47And sold really, really well.
18:48It did. So internally, because it's seen out by now, we are now working on season six.
18:54Wow. I was seeing the second collection, but you're already on season six.
18:58Yes. Internally.
18:59Wow. And how big are the collections?
19:02There's like 150 SKUs.
19:05And are you working with a design team?
19:07Yes, there's a design team.
19:09But you're highly involved in like, you know, the execution of each piece.
19:13I kind of swing between giving a shit about whether people understand I'm involved and
19:18then not because I give up. I'd get really mad because I'd be working my tits off and staying
19:23there till really late at night, getting up really early, like crying over this shit. And
19:27then people would be like, but how much of it is you? And I'd be like, do you know what?
19:31Don't worry about it. Maybe none of it then. Like a petulant child, just like none of you
19:36are ever going to believe me. So don't worry about it. But you know, we started with two
19:40of us. So it has been sort of something that I've had to be heavily involved in.
19:45Well, I wanted to talk about, um, you're in your mid thirties and...
19:50Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're right. That's your early thirties.
19:53How do you feel different now? Just sort of dating, being in relationship?
19:57I've managed to maintain both a career and a relationship. That said, the relationships
20:02haven't lasted that long, or as long as my career has.
20:05Why do you think that is?
20:06Well, that's what I'm beginning to think about. I'm like, wait, have I focused more on
20:09that sort of side of things and maybe not been as present for my relationships?
20:15Yeah, I could have a kid, but I'm not so desperate to have a child that I would make any
20:21arrangement
20:21happen in order to bring one forth into the world. Also, the world feels really crazy right
20:26now. I don't know if it's a cool time to like bring a child in.
20:31I definitely think it requires a lot of, a lot of thought and meditation, but I think that
20:37there's so much that happens in your thirties. I feel like you kind of almost become fully formed
20:43as a, as an adult. It really, I do feel like, yeah, no, I think so. And, um, I think
20:49I mentioned
20:50I didn't meet my husband until I was in my late thirties and I felt like I had such a
20:53different perspective about like what I needed in a partner and also like what kind of partner
20:57I could be because I think I had a lot of misconceptions. I think there's a lot of pressure
21:02in your twenties and thirties to kind of stay on schedule with everything. And, but what I
21:08didn't know is that when you have different kinds of professional aspirations, it really
21:13derails you from that. That's a sort of societal checklist.
21:17Yeah. Also like love's really hard to come by guys. It can't be about willpower or like
21:22how things are on paper. You either meet someone and you feel it or you don't, you can't like
21:28rush it along by being like, I'm now ready for this moment in my life. Like I might be 70
21:32when I fall in love again. And that's cool. These are things I'm told that like, oh, well,
21:36you're too picky or you're, you're very independent, Alexa. And I'm like, are dudes
21:41being told this? I think that's ridiculous.
21:43I think that's kind of a veiled insult.
21:46Yeah.
21:46And I don't mean to turn this into a, a gendered conversation, but I remember once, I think
21:53it was my mother and my aunt told me that women wait for the right person where men wait
21:57for the right time, which is interesting because I feel like I think like a man in that way.
22:02Cause I was always about like the timing had to be right. Cause I didn't want anything
22:05to sort of distract me from establishing myself as a great editor. Do you know what I mean?
22:10Yeah, I do know what you mean.
22:11So I want to make sure we have enough time. I want to talk about Grandpa Kwan. I want to
22:15talk about Grandpa Kwan.
22:17Grandpa Kwan, RIP. Grandpa Kwan was my Chinese grandpa and he was a bit of a ledge.
22:23Really? How? Why?
22:25I just remember him being incredibly chic and, you know, his English was, uh, fine, but not
22:31fantastic, but he was always very sweet and he made spectacular food and his house was
22:38like my dream sixties sort of time capsule.
22:42Where was it?
22:43It was in East Ham in East London, which is where my dad grew up. And he had like a
22:48pink
22:48sort of shag pile carpet bathroom scenario. And then downstairs this rocking chair, which
22:55was upholstered in this gorgeous blue sort of chinoiserie fabric. And weirdly, like two
23:02years ago, I went to Liberty in London and was trying to find the fabric of that rocking
23:05chair. Couldn't find it. Settled on another one. And I was like, dad, what do you think
23:09about this fabric? And he was like, weirdly, that's the fabric that's underneath the fabric
23:14that was on grandpa Kwan's rocking chair. I must've psychically felt the real fabric.
23:18That's insane. So what are you using the fabric for?
23:21Curtains.
23:22Oh, in your London place?
23:23Yeah.
23:24That sounds beautiful. So in terms of just like the motivation behind the collection,
23:29it's obviously incredibly personal. I feel like I could see you wearing all of it, but
23:34as a business, like, is there anything specific you want to accomplish?
23:37I want no one to be screwed over. I think that's sort of imperative. I would like to try and
23:42incorporate some element of sustainability. You know, I did a few years ago, I wrote an
23:47article about ethical fashion for British Vogue. And there was even then confusion around
23:53what's ethical, what's sustainable, and what do these different things mean? And we were
23:58interviewing wonderful people for that, like Stella McCartney and, oh my God, I can't
24:04even remember all the different brands. Point being, I think something that people can be timid
24:08about or put off by is that once you take a stance on that, you're then held to task over
24:13how much you're committed to it. And I think it's fine to just make your best efforts in
24:17the right direction. So for me, it's the start is let's not screw anyone over. Let's try and
24:23make sure this is a clean supply chain. I'm sure different things will crop up in the years
24:27to come where something fucks up and things don't go the right way. But I think it's okay
24:32to just try and do your bit for something. I do too. And I think that you had also mentioned
24:38to me
24:39that you were having like a really hard time, like getting some of the knitwear right, and you
24:43wanted the quality to be really good. And I think that your interest in creating items that you'll
24:49have for a while is the direction that I think that some people need to more consciously sort of
24:54consider. But that's just the way I've always shopped. So it just seemed like the type of clothes
25:00I wanted to make. Is that why you like vintage? I like vintage because it's like a portal to
25:07history. And I like vintage because it's just, you know, obviously, quite frequently,
25:12it will be a one of a kind item. And I'm a one of a kind kind of gal.
25:18No, I just I've always hated wearing anything that anyone else has on. So I like vintage because
25:23it's a little treasure hunt. And you have to get there first and collect the mushroom.
25:27I love talking to you, Alexa. I love talking to you. I'm very I feel like I wasn't
25:30very funny. I apologize. I would always I would always rather be funny than anything else.
25:35No, you're very funny. And, and I think you're super inspiring. And I love your new collection.
25:39And I know our audience will too. And thank you for being a guest on Unstyled.
25:43Thank you so much for having me as a guest.
25:46I hope you're inspired after hearing Alexa's story. For even more Unstyled extras,
25:51check out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation using
25:57the hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be infinitely grateful if you'd
26:03please subscribe to Unstyled on Apple Podcasts and rate us while you're there. You can head to
26:08refinery29.com to find this episode and more and make sure to sign up for our exclusive Unstyled
26:13newsletter delivered straight to your inbox every week. Our show today was executive produced by Sarah
26:19Bernard, associate produced by Rebecca Easley, and edited by Priscilla Mena. Copy support was provided by
26:26Elizabeth Kiefer. Our theme music today is by the artist Koff, and we recorded Unstyled with Paul
26:31Ruist at Argo Studios. We'll see you back here next Monday with former supermodel and forever
26:37activist Beth Ann Hardison on the power to drive racial diversity on the runways.