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00:00All the research shows that the more successful a man becomes, the more
00:05likable he becomes. The more professionally successful a woman becomes,
00:10the less likable she becomes. Ain't that the truth?
00:14Secretary Clinton spent months out of the spotlight following the biggest upset in
00:18presidential history. With the release of her new book, What Happened?, Secretary
00:23Clinton gave Refinery29 an exclusive interview about her candid memoir, which
00:27relives the 2016 presidential election. In the book you share a lot of really
00:32personal details. What made you want to open up now and do you regret not letting
00:36that guard down a little bit earlier? I mean this book is my most candid
00:43explanation of not only my life but what I believe that I've ever tried to do. It
00:49was hard and I'm very proud of the outcome because it was kind of cathartic.
00:55Everybody has losses. Not everybody will lose a presidential campaign but there
01:00will be all kinds of losses and disappointments that are just part of
01:04human nature and life. So I wanted to share my story on a very personal level,
01:13behind the scenes, pulling back the curtain.
01:15I think a lot of people did criticize you on the campaign trail for not doing that a
01:20little bit sooner. Do you ever regret that?
01:22Being a woman in public life is like being on a high wire with no net. And I
01:28have been involved in public service and in politics for much of my adult life.
01:35And there is a double standard about women and I try to explain that. And I
01:41consulted a friend of mine, Sheryl Sandberg, who as you know is the COO of Facebook. And so she and
01:49two of her top
01:50researchers came to brief me before the election really got started. They said,
01:55all the research shows that the more successful a man becomes, the more
01:59likable he becomes. The more professionally successful a woman becomes, the less
02:06likable she becomes. And when you are in service for someone else, you can go and
02:11advocate and people will accept that. But when you are trying to advocate for yourself as a woman,
02:19you are held to such a different standard than when men do the very same thing. Because we know
02:27ambition is a double-edged sword. It's fine for a young man or a man of any age to be
02:33ambitious,
02:33but a young woman or a woman of any age to be ambitious raises all kinds of dissonance in
02:40people's minds. In What Happened, Secretary Clinton offers an honest exploration of what went wrong
02:46during the 2016 election. She also brings us along on her journey toward healing in the aftermath of
02:52the campaign with the help of her friends, her daughter Chelsea, and her husband, President Bill Clinton.
02:58Oh, he was wonderful because it was so shocking. You know, we thought I was going to win.
03:06That's what the, you know, data we had suggested. I knew that I had taken a big hit from
03:12the letter that Director Comey from the FBI sent, which was, I thought, incredibly,
03:22unbelievably unnecessary, unprecedented, and damaging. So it was shocking. And when it happened,
03:28it was really a comfort to have him because he is, you know, my principal advisor and supporter,
03:36but he'd also lost. He'd lost two races for Congress and re-election as governor. So he knows the pain
03:44of losing. And he was able to both buck me up, but also begin to, you know, point me forward.
03:55Because it was devastating. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. And I write in the very first chapter,
04:00what it felt like going to the inauguration, that was going to inaugurate my opponent. And I had raised
04:09so many concerns about him. I tried to warn people and it was painful. And I felt like I owed
04:16it to the
04:17country, that it was a duty that I go. So I did. Bill and I went. And then we, you
04:27know, just kind of
04:27recovered ourselves after it was over. But then the next day with the Women's March, it was exhilarating.
04:34So that gave me a big boost of, you know, spirit and encouragement.
04:39I think that a lot of young women were surprised though, how much misogyny and sexism played a role
04:46in, in Donald Trump's campaign. And you write in the book that that did play a big role in the
04:51election.
04:52Yeah.
04:52What lessons do you think that that taught you about men in the aftermath of the campaign?
04:57That sexism and misogyny, which I describe and differentiate, if you will,
05:05are endemic in our society still. And we elected for our president, a man who bragged about groping
05:14women and sexual assault, who used vile insults to describe women, who called me nasty for challenging
05:24him. It was classic, classic misogynistic behavior. So what does that tell us? It tells us that
05:33we've made progress. I would be the first to say we have, certainly from the time I was your age
05:39and
05:39younger, but that we by no means have achieved the dream of, uh, equality, um, in social, political,
05:50and economic terms. And that when someone who is now, um, our president in the white house gives voice
05:59to those, uh, kinds of, uh, degrading comments about women, uh, who's caught on tape,
06:09saying those kinds of things. It gives a license to people to be, uh, more outspoken
06:18against women, against our progress, against our rights. And I think it's really important
06:25for young women to recognize, yes, we've made progress, but we have to all continue to stand up
06:33for ourselves, to stand up for each other, to stand up for the laws that we need and to take
06:39on the,
06:41uh, the sexism that is so prevalent and which has been given a real boost by, uh, by Trump.
06:50After Secretary Clinton's stunning defeat, many looked to Ivanka Trump as a moderating force for the
06:55Trump administration.
06:57So Ivanka Trump, um, she's, she started to champion a lot of the same issues that you did.
07:02She even wore a white pantsuit to inauguration, but she's kind of failed to live up to a lot of
07:07the things that she said that she would. Do you feel that she's complicit in the administration's
07:12actions and should we be sympathetic for her? The way I look at it is that the person who has
07:18to be
07:19held responsible is Donald Trump. He is the president. He listens to who he listens to. He
07:27tweets and speaks out, makes common cause with white supremacists and neo-Nazis and Ku Klux Klanners,
07:35uh, takes away the protections that were granted to 800,000 dreamers and so many ways just trying to
07:45impose a, uh, political agenda that is turning the clock back or attempting to do so, uh, in ways that
07:54I
07:54find not only, uh, really repulsive, uh, but wrongheaded in terms of the kind of country we are. So everyone
08:04associated with him, they're either on board with that or they're not. Right. And if they're not,
08:11they need to be speaking out or leaving. But if they remain silent and just give lip service to
08:17contrary points of view, uh, then they are part of his agenda and should be judged and held accountable
08:24for that. I had been thinking a lot about the day after the election, the refinery 29 offices,
08:28there was a lot of people sobbing and crying and upset. And during your concession speech that was
08:34particularly, there was just a, uh, an electric energy in the room. If, is there anything that you
08:39would say to those women differently today than you did back in that speech? I think the speech
08:45was certainly reflective of my concerns at that point, which were that people would get discouraged
08:51and they would turn away from public involvement, however they defined it. I'm not so worried about
08:57that. What I am focused on now with this new organization I've started called Onward Together
09:03is to give, uh, more people, young people, the chance to participate through supporting organizations,
09:11through, you know, being online, through raising money for people who are out in the public arena.
09:17And I have a little mantra where I like to say, resist, insist, persist, and enlist. Not everybody's
09:24going to run for office by any means, but you can support those who do, whether it is standing up
09:28for
09:28DACA recipients, whether it is, you know, fighting for, you know, better, uh, rules to protect equal pay
09:37and overtime and all of the other pieces or fighting to get healthcare for people. There's so much to be
09:43involved in now. And so I feel like the, the, the commitment is there, the passion is there, but we
09:50just have to organize ourselves as well as we can so that the maximum number of people can be involved
09:56and particularly to vote in elections because that's really what it all comes down to. Right, of course.
10:01One of the other things you read about in the book is your passion for moving forward the Democratic
10:05Party. Do you feel that abortion litmus tests are necessary for the Democratic Party in red states?
10:11I have to say that I am proud to be a Democrat and I'm proud of all the progress that's
10:18happened
10:18in my own lifetime. And I will continue to advocate for the policies of the Democratic Party.
10:23But I don't think it's either or. You need a very strong economic message, which I think I had,
10:32but it was hard to get through. Um, and you need to stand up for human rights, social justice,
10:37and civil rights. And a woman's right to control her body and her health care decisions is a fundamental
10:48human right. One of the reasons I was proud to have Tim Kaine on my ticket is that he's personally
10:54opposed to abortion. He's a practicing Catholic. But he, like Mario Cuomo long before, recognized that
11:03you have to protect the rights of individuals to make the most important and intimate decisions.
11:11And reproductive rights are important in order to make clear that we want to give women a choice.
11:20Well, to end this interview, Refinery29, we love owning your power and we are big fans of the power pose.
11:27Mine's kind of something like, like a little, that makes me get, that makes me feel confident.
11:31Do you have a go-to power pose that makes you feel powerful?
11:33Um, let me say here, it's hard to do sitting down, but, um, I think, you know, sitting up straight
11:40and, and just looking as fearless as you can about whatever lies ahead of you out there and just
11:47being unapologetic to own your own power and who you are. I love it. Thank you so much,
11:52Secretary Clinton. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.