- 4 minutes ago
Starring on The Real Housewives of New York City since the show's 2008 debut, Bethenny Frankel has transformed from struggling natural food chef to full-on mogul. In the process, she's changed the way her fellow reality stars, and women, do business. But recently, after overcoming her own personal tragedies, Bethenny has turned her concern to those in need...because why have all these successes if you're not using it to help those who truly need it?
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:07of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:13the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. Most of us were first introduced to Bethany Frankel as, quote, a
00:31housewife. She was famously cast as the sole single woman on the debut season of The Real
00:36Housewives of New York. But for her, housewives was just another step in a much bigger plan.
00:42Bethany was a born businesswoman with an uncanny knack for spotting opportunity everywhere. She
00:49got her first show business gig at 21 when she was seated next to a Hollywood producer
00:53on a standby flight. She struck up a conversation and soon landed herself a production job on
00:58Saved by the Bell. Bethany always knew how to get a deal done because she had to. She'd
01:04grown up in a fractured family where money was always an issue, be it her parents' child support
01:10battles or her stepfather's gambling debts. So Bethany entered the workforce determined
01:15to build her own financial security and success. After completing chef's training, she launched
01:22one of her earliest businesses, Bethany Bakes. Four years later, she and her company competed
01:27on The Apprentice. She didn't win, but she learned how powerful a platform reality television
01:32could be. She took her brand and moved onward and upward, way upward. In 2008, Bethany was
01:39the breakout star of The Real Housewives of New York. Within a year, Bethany had published
01:44a book, her first of eight, and soon debuted Skinny Girl Cocktails, which we watched come
01:49to life through her own instincts and experiments, right on the show. Under her leadership, Skinny
01:55Girl exploded into a $100 million operation, producing everything from snacks and beverages
02:01to lingerie, and most recently, a line of jeans in extended sizes. With Skinny Girl, Bethany
02:07built the business model virtually every reality star would follow. Ten years after her Housewives
02:13debut as the show's unlikely outlier, she's the star of her own life, perhaps the biggest
02:18star of the Bravo franchise, and busier than ever. Today, her focus has widened. In recent
02:24years, Bethany has thrown herself into disaster relief. She made headlines in 2017 when she chartered
02:30seven jets to deliver supplies and provide medical transport in hurricane-ravaged Puerto Rico.
02:35She launched the non-profit Be Strong to mobilize aid relief in the U.S. and abroad. She's done all
02:42this while grappling with personal hardship of her own. This summer, Bethany lost her long-time
02:47boyfriend and friend to an overdose. It was a traumatic and very public loss, but Bethany didn't retreat.
02:54Weeks later, she was raising funds and donations for victims of Hurricane Florence. Even in her darkest
02:59moments, there's no question, Bethany is a doer. In a recent interview, Bethany remarked,
03:06people have helped me get through my despair with their love and inspiration, she says. And now it's my turn.
03:21Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for being here. Hi. Hi. There's a story that I would love... Oh my
03:29God, she's pregnant. She's walked up like those whole stairs. Take a breath. I'm pregnant, but I also have
03:33to admit I'm nervous. Aw. No, I'm a huge fan of yours. Thank you. So we talked about this before,
03:39but tell me about this flight. I am actually really winded from walking up the stairs.
03:44Hold on. Take it easy. Here, take a sip of water. I know. I'm actually like thinking the first time
03:49I'm interviewing Bethany is when I'm seven months pregnant. Namaste. Namaste. Yes, thank you.
03:53You want me to tell a story while you're taking a drink? Just tell it. Yes, yes, thank you.
03:55Sorry. She's going to do the interview, and I'm just going to like sit here and drink water.
04:00Just be pregnant. Yes, exactly. I know. She was going to ask me about a story. I was at LAX,
04:04and I had graduated NYU but not walked with the class. I was in such a rush to sort of
04:11get on
04:11with my life and was going to stay at my father's house who lived in California. We'd never really
04:17had a relationship, but I was excited to go stay with him. I'd seen all those John Hughes,
04:21Pretty in Pink type movies, and I thought like I'm moving to LA and living in his house,
04:25and I'm going to be dating Andrew McCarthy, and you guys are all too young to know who that is,
04:29but he was a big deal then, and I was late, which I'm never late for anything, and I've never
04:36almost
04:36missed the flight, but they said that the flight was closed, and I just sort of sat there calling
04:42my father, who probably already thought I was sort of a failure anyway and an idiot, and I said,
04:47I don't think I'm coming, and then they came out and said, we have one seat left, but it's in
04:51first
04:51class. I was like, oh my God, and so I sat in first class, and there was this man next
04:56to me,
04:56and he turned out to be the senior vice president of NBC Productions, and we ended up talking the
05:03entire flight, and he had all these scripts, and he said, I never speak to anyone. I do this flight
05:07all the time. I never speak to anybody on these planes. I don't know why I'm speaking to you,
05:12and I don't know if I was selling him or what I was telling him, but I ended up turning
05:17that ride
05:18into being a production assistant on the Saved by the Bell Beach episodes. I mean, just saying Saved by
05:25the Bell is iconic, but saying the Beach episodes tends to ring a bell for those people in that
05:29cult. It's a thing. Yes, but I think the reason why I wanted to talk about that first was because
05:35I think it takes a certain kind of character to be in a situation and to have instinct to know
05:40that there's an opportunity there and to actually go for it, and I think that that's something that
05:45we can really trace throughout a lot of your successes, and I wanted to ask you, where does that
05:51instinct come from? Well, it's a fearlessness, and I think it's a courage that I think that we all feel
05:59like we know you because, you know, we have watched your life, you know, on television for the last,
06:05I don't know, like eight years, and more over 10 more, and I think that there's probably still
06:11obviously there's so much that we don't know about you, but I think that that's a special kind
06:15of courage that it's about survival, it's about success, and I think it probably tracks, you know,
06:22from the early stages of your life, but where do you think that comes from? Well, I mean, I think,
06:28and I speak to other parents who are so worried about every, you know, every class their kid's doing,
06:33every, you know, if they're spending enough time with them, and not to say that my childhood was no
06:39model to aspire to, it was very, very abusive, and dysfunctional, and every kind of bad recipe,
06:45but I was always the new kid in school, I went to 13 schools, I was often alone, not always,
06:50but often
06:51alone, and so I just was always able to put myself into any situation, and be anywhere, and kind of
06:58just
06:58talk, and it happens even now at this level of success, and knowing people, you know, I was in LA
07:03somewhere Saturday night, it was this party that was literally, like, the most, and I've been to a lot of
07:08major parties with major people, this was icons, like, leaders of industry, like, if something
07:13happened at this party, the stock market would go to zero, and I'm not exaggerating at all, maybe not
07:17to zero, but, like, it would be a disaster, and I went alone, and I could have brought a guest,
07:22and I
07:23did, and I do this a lot, and I choose not to bring a guest, because I want to exercise
07:26the muscle, and walk
07:27around, and talk to people, and people that would be very intimidated to me, and people that what I've done
07:31would, you know, I actually was surprised that some of these people had thought, oh, it's amazing what you did,
07:36I mean, when these are, like, billionaires, self-made, but I think that that's, it's a good
07:41skill to have, to be able to just walk through a party by yourself, and talk to different people,
07:47and lean into one other conversation, and sometimes feel, like, a little bit of uncomfortable for a
07:50second, because, you know, you want to say hi to your friend, but they're talking to someone so famous,
07:54and you don't want, like, the person that you know to think you're now tapping on that person,
07:58because they're talking to that person, you don't care about that person, but so you're like, oh, no,
08:02I don't mean to, I know that, I just, I'm over here when you get done with that famous major
08:06billionaire person, so it's, like, it's, like, a thing, you know, so I've always had that, I've
08:11always been the new kid, and I've always had the ability to just, sort of, jump into two things,
08:15and I think that that's something that everybody could, could take away. And you never really had
08:19any anxiety, even when you were growing up, you know, being in those new situations, so you just
08:22really had to train yourself to, kind of, adapt, and, and be, kind of, aware. I mean, sure, I mean,
08:28when I was in sixth grade, I remember being, you know, made fun of, and I remember certain things,
08:33and not, you know, I remember certain things, like, you know, kids can be mean, and things like that,
08:38but, I mean, I have anxiety now, but it's not about anything that matters. I sweat the small stuff.
08:43I have, when I've had dating profiles, I write, I only sweat the small stuff, because literally,
08:48a plane could come into my apartment through the ceiling, and I would, like, not even worry, but
08:52if just, like, if there were not enough sprinkles on my ice cream cone, I would possibly be very upset.
08:59You know, I just really only sweat the small stuff. Do you think it's about control? You think it's
09:03about, sort of, just, like, feeling, like, if there's enough sprinkles on your, on your ice cream
09:07cone, like, everything's going to be okay? No, it's because the small things, and, um, and it's
09:12learning experiences for people that I work with, et cetera, because, you know, this happened last
09:16night. It's, it's small things. It's, like, the small things trip up all the big things. Like,
09:21the little things are the things that get you, you know, you're pregnant. You know the little
09:24things you're worried about. Like, I don't know if you're, you're married, but if you're worried
09:27about everything, all the time. If you didn't get the thing that you're craving, like, you'd be
09:30distracted about this interview today. You know what I mean? Because, like, that's what you're in that
09:34moment, and that little stupid thing, which isn't that stupid to you, might make this, so it's really
09:39this, all the little, the devil's in the details. That's what, I'm a detail person. You know what I mean?
09:44I don't like to do something if I don't do it well, so if it's a little, you know, I'm
09:48the person,
09:48if I text you, and I'm a person that texts how I talk, so I, like, a sentence, sentence, sentence.
09:53Like, it's not that one big blue blurb. I'm not the big blue blurb person. I'm the blue blur, blue
09:58blur,
09:58blue blur, but it's the same amount, but you're just, if you're getting dings, you're just getting
10:02a lot of dings. But if I spell something wrong that you know I didn't spell wrong, I have to
10:07go back in
10:08and just do it after. I can't. I could be married to you for 15 years, and I could just
10:12be, like, crossbow,
10:13and it would be, like, two words, and I'd be, like, crossbow. Like, don't think that I did not know
10:17that that was crossbow.
10:18I have to say, I'm only, like, 10 minutes, and I'm already having so much fun. This is, like, so
10:22much
10:22fun to interview. So I wanted to talk about this word that gets kind of a bad rap these days,
10:28disruptor. It feels a little cliche at this point, but it's hard not to think about, you know, looking
10:33at your trajectory and your, you know, successes and thinking about, like, you at the early days,
10:39and especially, you know, we talked about this a little bit backstage about a scene, and I'm sure
10:43if all of you are as big a fans of Bethany's as I am, there is this scene that kind
10:49of resurfaced
10:50in the last season of The Real Housewives, and you were on the Brooklyn Bridge with Ramona,
10:55and she kind of shamed you. Well, she didn't kind of. She really shamed you for not having a family,
11:02being alone. There was a lot of things that she said, and it was really, it was funny because it's
11:06not
11:06funny in the traditional sense, but when I watched it, it really pained me because I realized, like,
11:12that's an attitude toward women that don't have sort of this ideal kind of life or family,
11:20and so many of us are kind of pursuing family life or relationships that we really feel are right for
11:26us but get a lot of judgment for it, and in the very beginning, you were one of the first
11:30people to
11:31join that franchise that didn't have children, that wasn't married. Were you even aware at that
11:37time, like, how different that was and what you might have needed to represent for other women
11:43that didn't necessarily have those things? I didn't know that I would end up being a female
11:48role model, but I guess I was doing things that would make that happen just authentically, so I didn't
11:54want to do the show initially. I originally wanted to be on the Food Network. I just wanted to cook,
11:59and the president said, you're not going to end up on TV, so stop having all these production
12:03companies contact me, and he's not there anymore, but I basically went on that show, and I understood.
12:12I have the ability to be in the micro but see the macro, and so I understood what they were
12:16doing.
12:17Like, they had everybody, all these women who were not similar but rich and married and, you know,
12:22getting facials and buying diamonds, and I thought, oh, they want their question mark character,
12:26you know, the one who doesn't know yet, which was completely true, and it was scary. I was talking
12:30to someone about this yesterday, being in your, you know, mid to late 30s and having no idea
12:35really what's going to, where it's going to land. I don't have people, anybody supporting me. I don't
12:38have a trust fund. I don't have, you know, I have a rent that's $2,600 and $8,000 to
12:43my name,
12:44and, and so, and I, and I did the show, and it's not bad. That's not bad. That's not that
12:49bad. No,
12:49but before that, that was because I had already become a natural food chef and was cooking for
12:54delivering people's meals, but I used to be the one who couldn't afford the taxi and would, like,
12:57put the ATM in and have insufficient funds, and I would be like, well then, but they would give you
13:02the money anyway. They'd give you the, I was like, that was nice. They'd give you the money, and then
13:06they
13:06would say you don't have the money, but then you'd get all these fees, but anyway, I really was, I
13:09had no money,
13:10and I went on the show, and I remember the guy I was dating saying, you know, well just be,
13:16only be
13:17this natural food chef, and only be cooking, and don't be talking about anything else, and don't
13:20be doing anything else, and I, the show was called Manhattan Moms. It wasn't what we all know now to
13:24be the housewives, so I didn't, I had no idea what it even was, but I knew that I should
13:27be honest
13:28about my life and connect to this audience. If they're going to tune in, if this ever even becomes a
13:32good show, I have to be honest about who I am, so I fell in, whether it was a relationship,
13:37whether it was
13:37someone breaking up with me, it was my little, you know, apartment that when I renovated it for $10,000
13:42was all Ikea, like that was my big moment in my studio apartment. I still love Ikea, by the way,
13:48but I
13:49think that the success for the business was ultimately buying into me. It was that I was being honest about
13:56who I am and where I was in my life, and I think that that's what ended up making my
14:00business a success
14:01because people trusted the product because they trusted me. I don't think just being on TV and shilling
14:06products is going to be enough, but it's funny what you say about women and about saying, you know,
14:12you're going to be alone and you don't have anybody, and I don't, you know, we all are alone in
14:16some way,
14:17but I don't have family. I've struggled with relationships and haven't been great at that,
14:22and a lot of the women on my show, all the women on my show now are not in the
14:25same relationships,
14:26and, you know, I've found that a lot of people want everyone to think that their life is better than
14:30it actually is. I've found through life and the housewives and particularly social networking,
14:34people would rather you think they're having a great life than actually them have a great life,
14:40and I'm really the opposite of that, and I feel, I felt a responsibility to discuss, you know,
14:45only because I had gotten married on TV did I feel a responsibility to discuss the demise of it,
14:49because I'm not going to pretend that everything's perfect, and that's why my friends will be like,
14:53I cannot believe you posted that picture of yourself on Instagram, because I think that everybody's trying
14:57to pretend that there's somebody they're not, and it's just going to make somebody else feel bad,
15:02and about what you're talking about, it makes me think of different people's paths,
15:05so if I think about how people react to my skinny girl jeans and the comments I get,
15:09and I've lost weight, but I'm still 14, and I don't feel good about myself,
15:13and I think about the skinny girl photo shoots and the girls that, like, legitimately are size 18 and 20
15:18and look amazing in the jeans, because how good they feel in them, and they have these butts that, like,
15:22I envy, and they just feel sexy and happy, and, you know, I just feel like everybody has their own
15:27lane,
15:27and you can make your own lane work, it's not, it's not going to be somebody on Instagram's lane,
15:33you know, so whatever Ramona's lane, that, you know, her lane, you know, is no longer on the highway,
15:39you know, also, so that's how I feel about that.
15:45You're welcome.
15:45I like how you really wrapped that up, but the other thing was, we were talking about this too,
15:50is that one of my favorite scenes with you, and I think it's why, you know, I just admire you
15:56so much,
15:57because nobody else would do this on any of the other shows, was you doing tastings that no one came
16:03to.
16:03Does everyone remember that?
16:04Oh, the cupcake, yeah, you could hear a cupcake drop.
16:07You could hear a cupcake drop, and they're soft.
16:09Yeah, yeah, they know, they know cupcakes.
16:12I know, I know.
16:12So, I think that to have just the courage in yourself and to know that you're enough to hold that
16:18scene,
16:18it made it so memorable.
16:20There's nobody else that would have, I mean, all the parties and all the events that they throw, or have,
16:24you know, I don't want to say they stage them, but have, you know, they're always just, like,
16:27all these people there, and it seems everyone's, like, glammed up.
16:31And there are, like, no real products being sold, just, like, a party to celebrate nothing.
16:34No, and I think you were there at Costco.
16:37I think it was at Costco, right?
16:38Oh, my God, yes.
16:39And I just think that you were, and you were happy about it.
16:42You showed up, and I think that that is...
16:44I mean, I wasn't happy about it, but I come from a place of yes, and this is not a
16:49joke.
16:50It sounds like I'm, like, doing, like, stand-up.
16:52It's not...
16:53I wasn't happy about it.
16:55Inside, I was like, oh, my God, no one's here.
16:57But then you have to just, like, no one's on my birthday party.
16:59Like, I literally have a signing at Costco, and there's not one person here.
17:02But I did have a baby, and they have dried blueberries and Dijon mustard and hearts of palm and massive
17:07containers.
17:08And so I thought, let's place a yes the fuck out of this thing and go shopping.
17:12You know, I had no choice.
17:14And Connecticut was with the muffin drop when I started asking everybody, like, what, you know, can we...
17:19Are there kids in here or no?
17:20I can say curses and stuff.
17:21No, it's okay.
17:22I already checked.
17:23Who do I have to blow for you to take a muffin?
17:25You know?
17:26It was really...
17:28It was hardcore.
17:29And then the store knows that you're a loser and the whole thing, but, you know, whatever.
17:33I mean, but look what happened.
17:36Yeah.
17:36I know.
17:36But I appreciate that you...
17:39That thing is that my number one priority is to laugh.
17:41I mean, my daughter I love and, you know, the earth and relief efforts and, you know, Gandhi and rainbows.
17:47But my number one priority really is to laugh.
17:49Like, I live to laugh.
17:51So if you can't laugh at yourself, you can't take yourself too seriously.
17:54No, but it's, I mean, out of all of the, you know, most...
17:59I mean, Kanye can run for president.
18:00We cannot take ourselves too seriously.
18:02You know?
18:04I'm just saying.
18:05It's true.
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18:36real you in your own style.
18:50Let's talk about Skinny Girl because I think it's such a, it's such an incredible success story.
18:54And the other thing that occurred to me when I was doing research on you is that, you know, so
18:59few publications really talked about the fact that, you know, yes, it was an enormous success.
19:03You know, you develop this brand that's, like, known, you know, around the world now and really symbolizes something.
19:11And also you sold it to Beam Global, correct?
19:14You're now Beam Suntory, but yes.
19:16Yes.
19:16But I did, but I didn't.
19:17I was trying to explain the story to the guys from Casamigos on Saturday.
19:20Randy Gerber.
19:21I sold it, but I maintained it.
19:24I have a back end with them, and I still am in business with them and, like, a spokesperson with
19:28them.
19:29But I didn't give them the intellectual property.
19:32So they don't own Skinny Girl, which I didn't realize was such a big deal then.
19:36It's a very big deal.
19:37You know, then it's a very big deal to be able to sell for such a large number to such
19:41a massive company and work it out that I would own all the intellectual property,
19:46which is why I can do jeans and salad dressings and sweeteners and, you know, anything else that I desire
19:52because it was a trust thing in a deal.
19:54And I said, well, I don't understand.
19:56You guys do liquor only.
19:58They're not Procter & Gamble.
19:59They're not Unilever.
20:00They're not making shampoo and mints, you know, with Skinny Girl.
20:03So, like, you guys do liquor.
20:05So why can't I keep the rest?
20:07You're not, what are you going to do with her and everything else?
20:09You're not doing liquor jeans, which is not, that's a good idea, actually.
20:14So I convinced them that, well, I wasn't going to do the deal otherwise, but I convinced them, so let's
20:21just be partners on this.
20:22Like, you're going to allow me to do all that, and if that does well, then you do well, and
20:25if you do well, that does well,
20:26and you have to be able to trust each other.
20:28That's an example of me not being good at contracts but being good at concepts.
20:33Like, I did not know that that never happened before.
20:36When I started Skinny Girl, I didn't know what a licensing deal was or an equity deal.
20:40I had to have my very, you know, inexpensive $250 an hour lawyer who is probably, like, a veterinarian on
20:47the weekends explain to me the difference between licensing and equity,
20:51and I was like, oh, equity means I own this thing, and that means it's, like, my skin in the
20:56game, and I was like, I want that, that one.
20:59So you don't have to be so smart at everything.
21:01You don't even have to be so smart at anything.
21:03You just have to be creative and kind of, like, navigate and think, you know.
21:08You have to be able to, like, think and just think about different ways because even the best lawyers I
21:13know that I have now
21:13and the best, you know, agents and partners and, you know, that's why there's a chapter in a place of
21:19yes that says never assume anyone's smarter than you
21:21because sometimes people are so in their own thing that they know how to do things the same way,
21:25and I'm a person that, you know, tells everyone to step away, not look at the pieces and look at
21:29the whole board.
21:31That's what I tell my staff all the time.
21:34Everyone's in the weeds.
21:35Happens to people in the housewives, too.
21:37We get in the weeds, like, you said that, I said that, you said that, I said that, she said
21:39that, she said that.
21:40I'm like, step away.
21:41None of this fucking matters.
21:43I just assume they edit it that way.
21:45I wasn't sure that actually really happens in real life.
21:47No, you get sucked down some drain, and things matter that you don't think that should matter.
21:51Well, I think that the larger point I wanted to make about that was what I think is really exciting
21:57about what you did with that company
21:58is that you really disrupted a very traditional industry.
22:02I mean, the liquor industry is, like, really just markets to men.
22:05Always did, until this.
22:07Yeah, and I think that, especially in the spirit space, I mean, I think that we always think of, like,
22:12you know,
22:13it's the way that cigarettes used to be, but it's the way that, you know, the liquor industry or the
22:18spirits industry
22:19kind of speaks to women in a very kind of, I wouldn't say derogatory, but a kind of a very
22:24predictable...
22:25It's a boys' club.
22:26...stereotypical way, and I think you breaking into that industry is something that's just really, it's really inspiring,
22:34because it's tough. It's really tough.
22:36But I didn't know, so it's like, I want to stand up here and be, like, you know, this shark.
22:39But you didn't know what was happening on the plane, either, and I think you didn't know...
22:42Right, right. I'm just saying, it wasn't like, I know, because I know someone on my show was saying to
22:46me last year,
22:46like, I need to find white space. I'm going to sit around and look for white space, and then I'm
22:50going to go do something.
22:51So, like, that's not how I roll.
22:53No.
22:53I just, I did not know. I just thought it was a great idea.
22:56A lot of people, you know, everyone said no. All the men in all the liquor companies said no.
23:00But in my gut, I thought it was a good idea, and I plowed through and found the partner.
23:04So I'm not belittling it, yes.
23:06And it was being, it's just that after did I realize that no one was really speaking to men, I
23:10couldn't, I mean, to women.
23:12And I couldn't believe that there hadn't been a low-calorie, ready-to-drink cocktail before.
23:16And so, you know, but by going head-to-head with all the men, I did get it done, and
23:20in that case, yes.
23:22And I think also, I mean, we saw just pieces of this on the show, but it was really surprising
23:27to me,
23:28I guess not surprising to me, probably not to you, how many people wanted to take credit for it.
23:34Just Luanne and my mother.
23:36Yeah?
23:37Yeah.
23:37But still...
23:38Who I have not, literally haven't had a relationship with in 30, like, as if when I was seven,
23:41I was, like, watching her make cocktails, and I was like, ooh, one of these days I'm gonna be on
23:44a reality show,
23:45which doesn't exist now, but in 40 years, it's gonna be my moment, mom.
23:51Yeah, no, so just Luanne and my mother.
23:54But did you feel protective about it?
23:57Because when that happened, and you've talked really openly about just your anxiety and struggles
24:01with money when you were younger, and I think that's also something that so many of us can
24:06identify with when you're a hustler, and, like, I consider myself a hustler, and I didn't come from
24:10money, and I had to really work hard for everything that I have, and I think there's so many periods
24:16of doubt that you go through when you're really trying to make something of your life, and you
24:21want your life to have meaning, and I think that it's just when you actually see that something
24:27is developing into something substantial and important, did you feel protective of it?
24:32I mean, I just was, I'm aware that they're, forgetting people taking credit, I'm aware of
24:37the way that it works and that people are going to copy.
24:39I mean, think about how anybody from Dolce & Gabbana or Tom Ford or anybody feels, they make
24:42something that's their, you know, life's work, and they're so focused on the detail, and the next day
24:48someone's knocked it off. So it's just the nature of the beast, you know, and in business, you have
24:53to be out, not just have the best idea, and not, like, on Shark Tank, I talk about this all
24:57the time,
24:57people are so worried about their idea, and don't steal my idea, and I had this idea, and don't tell
25:00anybody to my idea. You got to execute the idea, and you got to go hard and fast, and had
25:05I held on
25:06too tight, because I didn't want to sell, and not sold, I would have probably been swallowed up and gobbled
25:12up
25:12by the big guns. I mean, you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them, and
25:16I, was I
25:16protective of it? No, you can't, like, I'm me, and when someone else is looking at what I'm doing, I'm
25:21already
25:22doing the next thing. You know, I do, I often bring up Michael Phelps, I mean, it's just
25:25like, he looks at that wall, he's not looking at, in this lane or that lane, he's just
25:29swimming, and he's getting to that wall. It doesn't mean that I don't look around to see
25:33what's happening in my business, but I mean, if I've got to get something done,
25:36I'm going to get it done. You know, it's just, I'm a machine. Is there something in the works we
25:41don't know about? Is there anything like that you're... There's something very big in the works
25:44that you don't know about, but I can't talk about it, so that's like a tease, and I apologize.
25:48Not even a teeny bit. But it'll be soon. It will be more disruptive than anything I've done before,
25:53including cocktails, so, and it will be a risk, and you have to take risks, you know, it will, because
25:58you get, you know, you rest in your laurels, and you get jaded a little bit, you know, to do
26:04something
26:04like, this is amazing, and I walk in, and I think, oh my god, look at all these people,
26:07and we're at, like, a real theater, and this is ad week, and it's Refinery29, and I'm still, you know,
26:13I walk in, and I'm humbled, but that doesn't happen all the time, and so you want to, you know,
26:18see if you get to make this other thing happen, and I don't make big plans. Like, everyone's like,
26:22what do you want to be? Do you want to be the next Oprah, or do you want to take
26:24over the world,
26:25or a mogul? I'm not like that. I could easily, like, do nothing. I just, I'm executing the ideas
26:30that I have, and I have so many, that I'm constantly executing ideas, because I just
26:34love ideas, and so if I have an idea that I think is really good, I kind of want to
26:39see how far I can
26:39take it, but if I'm not having fun, and I don't enjoy it, then I don't want to do it,
26:45you know,
26:45I mean, I say, saying no, you know, is also saying yes, in many ways, so there are things that
26:52I'm doing,
26:52because they're, they are disruptive, and I think I could really, really make a difference, and
27:01I might be wrong, and so then that's a little bit scary, and it could pull everything else that I'm
27:05doing down, so that's a little bit scary, but it could be massive, so, you know, you go through
27:09that stuff at any level, when you have nothing, and when you have everything, you know, you always
27:13have to be taking risks, calculated risks, I think. I want to talk about the work that you've been doing
27:18in disaster relief. It was really, I thought, such an important part of the last season of The Real
27:23Housewives of New York, and it didn't, it wasn't exploitative, it just really felt like this was
27:28something you were incredibly passionate about, and you figured out how to be of service. I mean,
27:34the tremendous work that you've done in raising $60 million, you know, to, to go towards the victims
27:41of these communities in real crisis. And the $60 million is in, also in relief, it's not just $60
27:48million in cash, there are millions of dollars in cash, but it's in planes, and in, you know,
27:52everything from insulin, to diapers, to formula, every single thing a person could possibly need. I mean,
27:57it was like six Costco's filled up over and over. It wasn't actually Costco, because I'm still mad
28:02at them by the time that no one came. But it was like buildings the size of Costco.
28:06Okay. But how did you, how did you get that off the ground? Because it seems so incredibly daunting.
28:12Even the idea of you, like, borrowing a plane from somebody seems like, seems kind of challenging.
28:18Well, truthfully, it's like the rest of it. I did not know, and I didn't have a plan. I charted
28:24the
28:24first plan on my own. Had no idea how I was going to fill it. First, I went to Texas,
28:29because I have
28:30a, I had created Be Strong, which was initially supposed to be partnering with Dress for Success
28:34for women in crisis. That's what I said, that's what I created as the mission, you know, to be
28:40women in crisis, and life coaching, and financial advice, and therapy. And so that was great. We'd have
28:45a certain number of women that would qualify, and throughout the year, we would help them, and all
28:50of that. And it was great. And Dress for Success is an amazing partner I've been with for years.
28:54And it's wonderful. And they do wonderful things, helping women get jobs, and inspire other women.
28:59Great. But when I was choosing Dress for Success years ago, I needed something to feel dire. And I
29:05can't really explain it. And not that that's not dire, because some of these women go from homeless
29:08to having a job. They've never put, you know, a heel on, a bra on. I mean, it's serious. But
29:14I have
29:14always had this sort of, you know, phase zero desire, but that I didn't even know it existed.
29:21And even some charities that say they do relief work, it's not like that, like when you are not
29:25supposed to be going. So I did that first with Dress for Success for Houston, and went to help,
29:32I think it was like a thousand plus people with, at that time, I think I raised like 300 and
29:37something
29:37thousand dollars in a couple of days, and flew there, and was told not to go there. And, you know,
29:41it was tragic, and people woke up waist deep in water, you know, veterans and six kids having to
29:48go in garbage trucks because the boats were gone. And it was absolutely devastating. And then I
29:52visited Mexico after these terrible earthquakes, and there were dead bodies under, you know, the
29:58rubble, and had to go in there in helicopters, and was there before their own, you know, governor.
30:03And so I kind of just like started doing this, and these were individual days, and it was money,
30:07but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't, I did it, I came back, I felt good, I connected with them,
30:12I posted to raise more money, great. Dress for Success couldn't, was like, whoa, like so much money
30:19was coming through, there were seven clicks, that was not what they were designed to do. And I didn't
30:22realize that. I was like, what do you mean? No, just because we take the money, we're getting the
30:25money, we're going to get it. And they're like, no, no, no, this is, that's amazing. That's not exactly
30:29what we do. So I ended up finding another partner. And when Puerto Rico hit, when the Maria hit,
30:36September 20th, a year ago, I remember Dennis, my ex who passed away, saying, you know, he knows a
30:43lot of people have businesses there. You can't go there. They've all left. There's no water. There's
30:46no electricity. Like, you're going to get sick. You can't go. It's dangerous. And I said, well,
30:50isn't that when you have to go? Because it had already been like a couple of days in, or like
30:54a
30:54weekend. So I started obsessing over planes. And like, I was going to get a plane. And how come all
30:59my
30:59rich friends that I'm calling aren't like helping me out? And just, I'm going to figure it out. I'll fill
31:03the
31:03plane. I'll buy everything. So I chartered a plane. And then I just started talking to everybody and
31:08going on Twitter and connecting to different people. And I didn't know what I was doing. But
31:13I used to produce large scale events, like the Emmys and the Grammys. And like, I could kind of do
31:17anything if I want to do it. I mean, I can't like do brain surgery. But I mean, if it's
31:22like getting
31:22something done, I can get it done. So I just chartered one plane. And by the time that one plane
31:27was going,
31:28my friend said, okay, you can have my plane. And then it was this plane. And I found a warehouse
31:32to be
31:32filling the planes. And I was somehow finding people in Puerto Rico to help me distribute. And
31:36children's hospitals calling, email, texting me on Twitter. And me like hiring virtual assistants to
31:42like be the people that dealt with like the children's hospitals. And then someone else to
31:46deal with us bringing patients home on the planes. And it turned into like 54 planes. And it turned into
31:52then cargo ships. And I was like running this operation and not even focusing on anything going
31:58on in my life or my work. Or I was just like, I was in it for months. I mean,
32:02I lost hair. I was,
32:04you know, drinking sips of, I was drinking vodka at night, like not out socially to meet men, like to
32:09like try to like go to sleep and get off these chat rooms. And it was crazy. But if it
32:13was like what it feels
32:14like to start, I don't know, not even a business. It was like what it felt like probably to like
32:19launch a rocket,
32:20like build a rocket ship while you're flying it. It was crazy. I don't know how I did it. I
32:25genuinely
32:26don't. I don't like, it was, it was, it was incredible. I've been there so many times. I see,
32:31because you see things and you can't unsee them. And then you have to help that. It's like,
32:34it was like roaches coming out of the floor that you're like, let me, I have to do that. And
32:38then I
32:38have to do that. And so many people helped me. And so many people volunteered. And like nurses and
32:43teachers and people that have no money are the ones that really like, what, give me what, you know,
32:48and I, you just delegate and execute. And it's like a really big business. So the good news is that
32:54I know
32:54how to do it, which is why I was able to go to Guatemala and then go to North Carolina.
32:58And everything
32:58doesn't have to be me like living there for three months, but I have this skill set. So now, and
33:03I feel
33:04connected to it also because, so even on our show and with so many people, can you donate to my
33:10charity?
33:11And I'm doing something for cancer and I'm doing something for Lyme disease and I'm doing something
33:14and you never know where, what to do and who to donate to. And I feel like disaster relief
33:19affects everybody. We've helped the elderly, babies, you know, people on dialysis, addicts,
33:25the Chabad, the Christians. I mean, it's just like, it's just, it was, it's, it's, it's my thing.
33:31Like I, I found it. I love it. I can, I can do it.
33:35You're really good at it.
33:36Oh, thank you.
33:37You are.
33:39I wanted to talk a little bit about love. There's a really beautiful quote that you
33:44shared. I can't remember what publication it was. It was a long time ago and it really kind
33:48of went back, traced back to your first marriage and which a lot of people don't even know that
33:52you were married a long time ago. And it ended in divorce, obviously, but you made a comment
33:58that was really beautiful. And, and I think also very relatable from, for many of us. And it
34:04was, you said that you'd wish that you had waited for real love. And I just wanted to
34:09know, do you, like, what does real love mean to you now?
34:13Well, it's good that you said now, because before that, I mean, in high school, I had
34:16like a real love relationship. Not that I was going to be with him for the rest of my
34:19life, but I mean, I think love does take many different shapes. And I do think that both
34:23people have to be on the same page to feel like the greater love, like, you know, and
34:28listen, I, my best friend in the world, we were talking about this walking on the beach
34:32and her relationship. She loves her husband, but she says we're very solid. Like, she
34:35needed to, like, check these boxes and do pros and cons. Like, that's not me. Not that
34:41I don't need to check the boxes. I think that fundamental differences really are not great
34:46in a relationship, no matter how you feel about someone. But real love, to me, is the
34:51sum being greater than its parts. When, you know, not to be like every cheesy movie, but
34:55like you really, a person makes you want to be a better person, makes you want to be nice
35:01to them and love them and take care of them and, and vice versa. And just makes you happy
35:06and makes you feel, you know, fulfilled. I mean, real love is not settling. You know,
35:11I'm not a settling kind of person. And I feel like I've just made decisions out of fear versus
35:17love many times. Like, and I think we all do that. Like, oh, it's, it's what our parents
35:21say we're supposed to be doing. It could be in work or, you know, also like I'm supposed
35:25to be doing that. And, you know, or this guy is so great that everybody loves him. And,
35:29or my biological clock is ticking or, but he has so much money or, you know, or she or
35:35whatever. I just feel like a lot of times people make decisions out of fear versus true
35:40love. And I just won't make that mistake again.
35:43Thank you for being honest about that. I think a lot of us make decisions out of fear sometimes,
35:47but at least we're, hopefully we're aware when we're doing it.
35:50Yeah.
35:51Just quickly in like 30 seconds or a minute, just tell us like, what is your philosophy
35:55around like fashion and personal style and identity right now?
35:57I think that everything should be fitted. I'd rather have something inexpensive that
36:01fits well than something really expensive that doesn't. And I don't like to have what
36:05everybody else has. And I don't love overuse of logos. And I don't go get the thing that's
36:10like full price right now. I don't care. We were talking about this in the car on the
36:14way here. I'll buy something on sale that I think is great that I don't even need right
36:17now. And then three years later, it's just like living there and you're like, now's the
36:21moment for that thing. I'm not overly caught up into like being insecure about what's here
36:26now. And you know, you got to know your own personal style. I don't have a stylist. I
36:30know exactly what I buy everything for myself. I don't like to borrow. It's like, let me borrow
36:34a man. And I mean, no, I want to, I want to, I want to own that man. I don't
36:39want to borrow
36:39him.
36:40I don't like buying things either. I like owning them. I want them to be mine.
36:43And I spend more money. I was talking to some girl who was like that one high up at Tom
36:46Ford on Saturday. And she was so impressed. She loves that. I'm like, I don't want to borrow.
36:49I just want to have it.
36:50Yeah.
36:50I want to use it again.
36:51And if I want to get rid of it, I'll get rid of it.
36:53I don't want to alter it. Now I owe you guys and I've altered your thing. So I'm, I'm
36:57very, I have my own personal style. I think being comfortable is, and dressing really for
37:02who you are and who you want to be is really important. I think about where we're going.
37:07So this is business casual. So this is like sort of a suit, but I want it to have a
37:10little
37:10flair. I think about the event. I do. I think about it, like what it means. Like I remember
37:15once Robert Verity, the stylist said to me, we're going to be on The View. That's a show
37:18where like you're with your girlfriends. You're dressing, you know, you see people come on
37:21in these like hot couture outfits. And he said, no, you're like hanging out with your
37:25girlfriends, but then you're watching what happens live, boozing it up at night. So
37:28you're sort of like more in like nightclub gear and it's more of a shoe show. I was
37:31like, Oh, it's a shoe show. So I think about things like that more, you know, but all for
37:36work. I'm always in pajamas, which is why I couldn't run for public office. The second
37:40I get back to my house, all of this will come off.
37:44Immediately.
37:46Immediately. Not, and not those people that get on an airplane with like a belt and everything's
37:50perfect. And I'm like, not this girl sweats all the way.
37:53The next time I interview, I'm definitely going to negotiate for 30 more minutes.
37:58I'm going to negotiate for a wardrobe budget.
38:00Okay. Thank you so much for doing this.
38:03So good to talk to you.
38:04Thank you. Thank you.
38:05You are so nice.
38:07Thanks.
38:16I hope you're inspired after hearing Bethany's story. For even more Unstyled extras, check
38:22out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation
38:27using the hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be infinitely grateful
38:33if you'd please subscribe to the Unstyled podcast on Apple Podcasts and rate us while
38:37you're there. You can head to Refinery29.com to find this episode and more and make sure
38:43to sign up for our exclusive Unstyled newsletter delivered straight to your inbox every week.
38:48Our show today was executive produced by Bridget Todd, associate produced by Rebecca Easley
38:53and edited by Priscilla Mena. Copy support was provided by Kelsey Miller. Our theme music today
38:59is by the artist Koff. We'll see you back here next Monday for a conversation with Misty
39:05Copeland. See you then.