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00:00I mean, I called Brian Cashman right away when I heard it got out.
00:03I didn't know I was hot, Mike.
00:05But I heard the next morning we were at the parade,
00:08and everybody was talking about it.
00:10I'm like, what?
00:12How did they hear that?
00:13You know, I'm like, hot, Mike.
00:15And I'm like, whatever.
00:16So I picked up the phone and called Brian right away
00:19and had a good conversation.
00:20And the best I could try to explain that I wasn't talking about the 2026 Yankees.
00:26John, we shared the World Series together.
00:29Now we're going to share another part of that.
00:32Our perhaps most frequent guest, Pat Murphy.
00:35I think so.
00:35Who is now a championship manager of the Milwaukee Brewers, joins us on the show.
00:39Right, championship manager, champion of the show.
00:42A fantastic interview.
00:44Obviously, a fantastic manager.
00:47Probably should be manager of the year.
00:49Third straight time.
00:50Three out of three.
00:51Incredible.
00:51And he has a great interview.
00:53And we're so thankful that he's coming on our show
00:58after appearing on SNL and the Today Show.
01:02And, you know, we love the guy.
01:04And it's great to have him on once again.
01:07So great job by you to get him, Joel.
01:09Yeah, thanks.
01:10I'm sure we're going to ask him what made the Brewers champions.
01:14I'm sure John and I will sneak in a question
01:15where he kind of seems to rip the Yankees to Jake Bauer.
01:19I'm sure we'll get into that.
01:20John and I are going to talk a little World Series up top.
01:22We're going to talk a lot of free agency, Yankees, Mets, trades,
01:26where we think the two teams are going.
01:28We'll play hit or error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and
01:33John.
01:39John, you and I spent a lot of time sitting side by side at the World Series.
01:43It's been over for about a week.
01:46A little later on, we're going to have Pat Murphy,
01:48and we'll definitely delve into a lot on the World Series.
01:53But can I give one overriding impression?
01:55You tell me yours, which was mine is the Brewers, just as stupid as it sounds,
02:01they're just really good at everything.
02:04They weren't good at one thing this year.
02:06They finished next to last in homers during the regular season,
02:08and then they out-homered their opponents 13-4 in the postseason.
02:12So they even got good at that.
02:14They even got lucky at that, right?
02:16There maybe should have been a fifth homer by Ty France early on.
02:19Who knows what that would have done for the playoffs.
02:22But, you know, if you're average at everything, you'll win 90-plus games.
02:27They're kind of above average at almost most things,
02:29except for the power, and then they added the power.
02:31They're one impressive team.
02:33They do everything on a baseball field well.
02:36Absolutely fantastic job.
02:38And, I mean, look, I give them credit for even being 19th in payroll
02:41with probably the worst media deal in baseball,
02:44which I'm not blaming them for making that deal.
02:46I mean, you know, Milwaukee TV market is not great.
02:49It's the 41st market.
02:51It was a great story.
02:52I loved it.
02:53I know the ratings aren't as great as when the Yankees or Dodgers are in,
02:58but this was a complete team that played the game right,
03:01that did everything right, and I thought it was a great story.
03:05Some additional impressions.
03:07I mean, Terang, he's won the Platinum Glove.
03:10I think we can both see that.
03:11You commented to me as you were sitting next to me.
03:14The guy's just unbelievable at second base.
03:16Brilliant.
03:17Incredible, right?
03:17Unbelievable.
03:18He might be the best second baseman I've ever seen.
03:20Yeah, I mean, we've seen Robbie Alomar.
03:22We've seen some good ones.
03:23He's amazing.
03:25I mean, the energy from certain guys like Freelich and Churio, incredible.
03:32Contreras, I think he stepped up his game.
03:34He's just so talented and so good.
03:38He might be one of the best players in the game.
03:40He might be the best catcher.
03:41I've always said Will Smith is the best catcher,
03:43no matter who's hitting how many home runs or doing anything.
03:46I've always felt that Will Smith was, it might be Contreras.
03:50You know, Aaron Ashby, have we ever seen a reliever
03:53and have a performance like that?
03:54Just incredible.
03:55I mean, the guy, amazing and amazing.
03:59If you gave a postseason MVP, it might be Aaron Ashby.
04:03Yeah, you know, look, we have a relief pitcher of the year award
04:06for the first time, the BBWA this year.
04:08I think that award, if you're going to give it out,
04:10we shouldn't give it out.
04:11If we're going to give it out,
04:13it should be from the beginning of the season through the playoffs
04:15because that's when the relievers are the most important.
04:18And I think if we did it from the beginning of the season
04:20through the playoffs, it wouldn't be like Louis Varlin or Mason Miller.
04:24It would be Ashby because he was exceptional all year, especially late.
04:30And then he was a difference maker for a championship team.
04:34John, can I, I've been thinking about this a lot in the last 48 hours.
04:39It's a, this is a little bit of a transition into the Mets and free agency.
04:44If you were a Mets fan, would you feel any better?
04:47Because I know at this point there, there's a collective downturn against David Stearns.
04:53But if you're like the worst moment for David Stearns as the GM of the Brewers,
04:58like the thing he took the most abuse for was when he traded Josh Hader
05:01at the trade deadline in 2022 and didn't, and he will even admit,
05:05he didn't do a good job in their clubhouse explaining what he was doing.
05:09There was no immediate impact from it.
05:11And it's the only time in the last nine years the Brewers haven't made the playoffs.
05:15But you sit here today, Robert Gasser looks like the real deal.
05:19He pitched well in the World Series.
05:21They got Estary Ruiz in that trade and turned them into Wilson, into William Contreras.
05:25Like that was David Stearns being pretty crafty, even at a moment.
05:30And it's almost like, can I make a case?
05:32Like something really good came out of something really bad.
05:35He is a good executive.
05:37If you give him time, something positive will happen for the Mets.
05:41Or am I really reaching at this point, John?
05:44Well, maybe a little.
05:45You know, he obviously had a great career in Milwaukee.
05:50He definitely has the potential to be a great executive.
05:53I think he just has to transition from being a great small market executive to become a great big market
05:59executive.
06:01Look at all the deals that he made.
06:03You know, obviously, we're not going to go crazy again about Alonzo.
06:07But to sign all these guys, they were like all small market deals, these short-term deals for guys that
06:14he's going to get out of.
06:14Even the Bichette deal, he thought he'd get out of it after one year.
06:19Now, it's not going to be one year.
06:21It'll probably be two years if Bichette has his normal season.
06:23But to sign Polanco and all these other guys for short deals, it's not the way to operate in New
06:31York, right?
06:31He's got the ability to really go out and get the best.
06:34And he needs to really transition to become a big market GM.
06:38But certainly a very smart guy.
06:40He has the ability to do that.
06:41And so, yeah, I don't think it's a complete reach, no.
06:45You know, John, the largest contract in history was done.
06:49I know it was probably a lot more Steve Cohen than David Stearns.
06:53But they did do Juan Soto.
06:55It was Scott Bohr's client and clearly the biggest free agent.
06:59And it feels like secretary at the Belmont.
07:02It's like Tarek Skubel and who's the second best free agent in this class.
07:06It's not that impressive of a class.
07:08If you're looking for a bat in this class, good luck.
07:12You know, it's going to be all guesswork.
07:14You might get lucky, but there's nobody who looks anything like 80% of Juan Soto here.
07:20Do you, I think we both expect that the Dodgers and Mets are going to be significant players on Skubel.
07:31Do you think that the Mets are in this to the finish line?
07:34And do you think anyone else is in it besides these kind of two coastal powers?
07:39Yeah, I mean, there are going to be other teams in it.
07:41There were other teams in it on Soto.
07:43Ultimately, we know the Mets did get him.
07:45The Dodgers, I think, finished sixth, something like that.
07:48In this case, it's interesting to see what the Dodgers actually do.
07:52Obviously, they have an interesting situation with ownership right now.
07:56The owner, Mark Walter, has been selling off pieces of his empire.
08:01He says he's not going to sell the Dodgers.
08:03Is he able to and willing to go big with Skubel now?
08:08There are other owners with the Dodgers.
08:10So I kind of think the answer is yes, he's not a full-time.
08:13It's not Steve Cohen's situation where he owns basically 80%, 90% of the team.
08:19He owns a smaller percentage of the team.
08:21So I think the Dodgers will be in it.
08:24I know.
08:25I'm sure the Mets will be in it.
08:26But I do think there will be other teams in it.
08:28I am going to be surprised in the end if the Mets or Dodgers are not able to outbid the
08:35other teams.
08:37I'm not saying there's a 0% chance.
08:39But so far, the ones who've offered the $50 million-plus contracts and the biggest contracts went when it was
08:47$40 million.
08:48Two were the Mets and the Dodgers.
08:49So I'm going to be surprised if it's somebody else.
08:52But you never know.
08:54If you were advising Steve Cohen and David Stern, Skubel's guys had three different elbow surgeries.
09:03He had the nanoscope this year.
09:05It got called the Skubel scope, I think, right, by Scott Boris.
09:09And he came back and he was 90% of who he usually is, which, by the way, 90%
09:16of Tarek Skubel is still a top 10 starting pitcher in baseball.
09:20Is this a guy you would go all out for if you were the Mets, especially considering that their history
09:27at the top of the market isn't the greatest history that there is?
09:32It feels like they should do it, and yet it feels like, man, it'd be hard to tell Steve Cohen
09:38to put all that money.
09:39Like, Steve Cohen's wasted a lot of baseball money these last two years.
09:44Would your advice be go for it?
09:46He's so great, you got to go for it.
09:49I almost think he has a little choice, right?
09:51He's had two disastrous years in a row, right?
09:54The first one at the end and the second one throughout the entire season.
09:58Did do a little bit better at the end, to be fair.
10:01But basically, two disasters in a row.
10:04As you said, this market is very top-heavy, incredibly so.
10:09You know, there's one guy who's the best pitcher, arguably, in baseball.
10:14It's either him or Yamamoto, in my mind.
10:16Probably most people would say he's the best pitcher in baseball.
10:20You know, nobody's perfect.
10:22Everybody, every pitcher's got some issue going on.
10:26You know, everything will be considered.
10:28With everything we've seen, he's won Cy Young the previous two years.
10:34This year, he was one of the better pitchers.
10:36He's not, obviously, missed six weeks.
10:39He's not going to be a Cy Young contender this year.
10:42And he switched leagues.
10:45But I think he has a little choice at this point, unless he thinks he can somehow cobble together from
10:52that other group.
10:54You know, make, turn the, what did the Mets win this year?
10:57How many games did they win?
10:58I'm not, you said something in the 70s, right?
11:00Yeah.
11:01Turn that into a World Series winner.
11:04I don't know.
11:05I don't think there's any choice that he has, really.
11:08Yeah.
11:09I think the most fascinating thing on Scoogle, John, is going to be, is he like eight at four, like
11:16whatever the high end?
11:18Or do people say, look, we do have enough concern about this, but we recognize you're great and it's 455s.
11:26Or something, you know what I mean?
11:27Something like that.
11:28Do you, do you, my suspicion is he'll get what he wants.
11:32Let me ask you two questions, because I always end up asking you, because I think few people know the
11:37market as well as you.
11:38Does he get short with a high AAV?
11:41And I, I have yet to talk to a person, John, who does not think he signs before December 1st.
11:48Like, like people think he's going to come off the board before a lockout.
11:51And the most, a lot of big players will do this.
11:55That happened last time with like Simeon and Seager and all that shortstop class in 22 before we had a
12:02lockout.
12:03We're anticipating December 1st, 1159 p.m.
12:06We're going to, the owners are going to lock out the players again.
12:09I think Scoogle's coming down.
12:11I'm not sure if it's going to be big and long or just short and high AAV.
12:17What do you think of those two issues?
12:18Yeah, they all, all these players who are at the top end, they all end up getting a long deal,
12:23right?
12:24I don't see how he's going to get a, a short deal.
12:27As you mentioned, the history is all part of it.
12:30So that might affect the total or the number of years, but by the number of years, it's still going
12:36to be a lot of years, right?
12:37I don't see that.
12:39The ones who have to do a shorter deal are the ones who had a bad year, final year, walk
12:44year,
12:45like a Jazz Chisholm or somebody like that.
12:47They did not have their typical season and they're going to have to do a shorter year with opt-outs
12:51or whatever,
12:52like Bichette did the year before.
12:54He didn't have to, obviously.
12:55Philly made them that offer of 200, but he opted for that.
12:59But I mean, Scoogle's not only the best pitcher at baseball, he's by far and away the best free agent
13:04out there.
13:04So he's not going to have to do that.
13:06I do think that some of these predictions are a little bit over the top.
13:10We'll see.
13:11I mean, did anyone think Soto's getting 765?
13:15No, I don't think anybody saw that one coming.
13:18And some of them, some of the times I've gone over on different guys and they weren't able to get
13:23what I expected.
13:25But he's not going to have to do a short deal.
13:28I'll share a story with you.
13:31When the bid started to come out on Soto in the 700s, where the Yankees and the Mets were, an
13:39executive from a non-New York team texted me.
13:41I think at that time was Trout the largest contract at 4-something.
13:45And the guy sent me a text.
13:46What happened to 500 and 600?
13:49And I was like, well, I could tell you, I've talked to people from both the Mets and Yankees.
13:53They are both corroborating to be there in the 700s.
13:57Right, and Otani.
13:58I mean, Otani was at 700, but we knew that the value of it was closer to 450.
14:03And this guy was a great hitter and a great pitcher.
14:05So, you know, it sort of went beyond what any of us prognosticators figured that it was going to go.
14:13You know, the market is a funny thing.
14:15And certainly this year we've got the lockout coming, and that changes the equation even further.
14:21So as hard as it is to predict normally, it's even harder this year.
14:25Yeah.
14:26Look, you mentioned how bad the Mets, not just bad, disappointing.
14:31You could argue they've been the most disappointing team in the sport the last two years.
14:34I kind of wrote this for this morning, John, that got posted on our Sports Plus.
14:39I said, you know, it is interesting that an annual rite of fall is, like, the Yankees won 93 games.
14:45It was the second-best record in the league.
14:48They won a round of the playoffs.
14:49They make the playoffs every year.
14:51And then the moment they are eliminated, they get clobbered worse than, like, the Mets have the last two years.
14:58And I do think, look, one thing is they put themselves in harm's way.
15:01We know it's bullshit, but they keep saying it's championship or bust.
15:05So if you're going to say that publicly, then we're going to hold you to championship or bust.
15:10That's number one.
15:11Number two, I do try to treat them like A students.
15:15Like, I think that they are very well run.
15:18And therefore, like, I'm not curving, grading on a curve.
15:22Like, you've got to, like, do well.
15:25And they do well at a lot of things.
15:26You know, one of the things they do well at?
15:28High-end free agency.
15:29Like, Cole was a success.
15:31Freed was a success.
15:32Judge was a success.
15:34Bellinger looks like a success.
15:36Like, it's something they actually do well.
15:38And yet, I don't think they're playing in that pond this year.
15:42I think that they're going to try to get deep in their bullpen, find a right-hand-hitting catcher,
15:48find a right-hand-hitting third baseman, and find a defensive center fielder.
15:51And I think they're going to do it not trying to go deep on the credit card.
15:56What do you think?
15:57Yeah, I mean, he's always said $300 million, you should be able to win at $300 million.
16:02Well, they haven't been able to, but he thinks that they should be able to.
16:05And I don't think he's going to $400 million.
16:08So I think that would—and this is not a great year for free agency.
16:12And the one great player, one truly great player—I mean, there are some very good players out there.
16:16Obviously, Suzuki and Rosarena, Lau.
16:19There are several very good players that are out there, but this isn't the year to dive in,
16:24unless you need a starting pitcher.
16:26And right now, it doesn't seem to be a good reason for the Yankees to go for Skubal.
16:32You know, it would be quite an undertaking to then try to sign Skubal and then trade somebody or do
16:38something.
16:39So I don't see that.
16:40You never know in free agency.
16:42I don't see that coming.
16:44They have obvious holes and needs and thoughts, and certainly they've got to think about second base.
16:49They probably have somebody within, if they can figure that out, whether that be Volpe or Garcia or whomever.
16:56Third base is a question at this point.
16:58Is catcher a question?
17:00They've got some—they've got, you know, a lot of money on the books and some pretty apparent holes.
17:04And they've got to get—I think they need to bring Bednar back, you know.
17:09Yeah.
17:10They offer QO, obviously, right?
17:12Right.
17:12And he's not going to accept the QO, I don't think.
17:16You know, I think the one guy who might is Bauer, is maybe.
17:19We'll see.
17:20And he deserves it.
17:22He did fantastic.
17:23But, you know, they need to bring Bednar back.
17:26And look, Blackburn is a free agent as well.
17:28So—and he was fantastic, right?
17:30So they need to enhance that bullpen.
17:33It was really good in the regular season.
17:35In fact, the best ERA.
17:37But they were worn out by the end.
17:39At least Hedrick was, right?
17:42So—
17:42And Hedrick's the only significant reliever they still have under control.
17:46Like, you know, you mentioned it.
17:47Blackburn and Bednar are both gone.
17:49Fernando Cruz is hurt.
17:50I think there's a decent chance he's going to be non-tendered.
17:54You know, Tim Hill is gone.
17:55Like, they've got to rebuild the whole bullpen.
17:58John, as a way to end this, let me—
18:01I'm sure over the coming weeks, you and I will dive into lots and lots of issues,
18:05especially on the Mets and Yankees.
18:07But it's hard for me to have just watched a World Series between the Brewers and the Rays,
18:13where the games are played really fast, you know, and they're such great athletes.
18:17I know the Yankees want the bats.
18:20But this idea that Luis Garcia Jr. is going to go play second base,
18:24like, Washington knows him best.
18:26And to come off the second base, put him on first base,
18:29and suddenly his offense blossomed.
18:31And if I were the Yankees, I would be trying very hard to trade Luis Garcia Jr.
18:37Not because he's a bad player.
18:38I think it's quite the opposite.
18:40I think the offense is real.
18:42But he's a year from free agency.
18:44You have Ben Rice.
18:45I don't think they're just eating Stanton's money,
18:48so they're going to show up in spring training pretending at least he's the DH.
18:51By the way, if he's not, Judge should DH a whole lot more as they look to preserve him.
18:55And I think you just can't, like, look at this World Series and go,
18:59we're going to put, like, Ben Rice at first and Luis Garcia at second,
19:03have no range, no athleticism at those two positions.
19:07I think you try to – that's a way to address bullpen or third base or center field or catch.
19:13You use Luis Garcia.
19:15It's just one issue.
19:16What do you think?
19:17Yeah, I don't think Luis Garcia ever fit the Yankees.
19:20I mean, when they traded for him, they did it because they desperately needed offense.
19:24They weren't finding the bullpen pieces that they needed
19:27and the other pieces that they needed.
19:30It was just a bad market for them,
19:32and their offense was floundering with the judge and Stanton out.
19:36They thought, well, add some power.
19:39He certainly performed pretty well.
19:41Well, he's a very good player, but, yeah, I don't think he really fits the Yankees
19:46unless they believe he's a second baseman, and I don't know.
19:49He doesn't look like a second baseman.
19:51I mean, I don't recall him playing in Washington,
19:52but I've heard it didn't go very well.
19:55That doesn't mean he can't learn how to do it, but, you know,
19:59he doesn't look like a second baseman.
20:02I mean –
20:03No, he's going to have to sit down to go play.
20:06I think he's a valuable trade piece.
20:09That's the way I look at him, yes.
20:11Yeah, I'm with you, John.
20:14You know, we mentioned that World Series, Brewers and Rays.
20:18Milwaukee obviously won it.
20:20Their championship manager is Pat Murphy, and he joins us next on the show.
20:30Well, this person's been a frequent guest, and I usually would introduce him this way.
20:36Three-time NL Central champion, two-time NL Manager of the Year, up for it again this year.
20:44Two-times best record in the major leagues, but I get to do this for the first time,
20:48and it's a joy to do it.
20:50World Series champion, manager Pat Murphy, thank you for joining us on the show.
20:55That's really my pleasure.
20:58It's really our pleasure, Pat.
21:00Murph, I wonder – it feels like when I was down on the field afterwards,
21:04it felt like it feels on the field after every World Series, which is – it's fast,
21:09and it's a haze, and hugging, and alcohol.
21:12What lingers for you in the time since, you know, reaching, I'm sure, a career and lifetime achievement?
21:22Yeah, I think the most thing that surprises me is that I practiced for so long, staying just even.
21:30And I didn't let my emotions go either way too much, and I didn't really get as excited as I
21:39thought I would be.
21:40I haven't really let it go.
21:43So for me personally, it's been just joyful, you know, just seeing my family there,
21:50seeing all the lives of the players and their families and how that affected them
21:54and how great they feel about themselves, watching them celebrate, watch them do the parade
22:01and then the rally after and then going to the Packers game.
22:06And then now last night there with basketball and just seeing the joy in their eyes of their achievement
22:12fills me up inside.
22:14But I've just – I've been very busy, so it's been no time to really just sit back and relax
22:21yet.
22:23You have been busy, and you were on SNL.
22:26You were on Today Show, so we're very honored.
22:28You are probably our most frequent guest, even beating out all the Yankee and Met people,
22:33which is really something.
22:34So we really do appreciate that.
22:36I know you told your players in spring training that you felt the team could win,
22:41but when did you really think this team could win, and when did you think you actually would win this?
22:48Yeah, I mean, I didn't know we would win the World Series.
22:52There's a lot of great teams out there, very powerful teams, and I didn't know that.
22:57I just knew that this group was a great group of guys, and they would pull together.
23:02They would have that mindset that said we can overachieve or whatever that is
23:07when the team pulls together and you play winning baseball.
23:13And when it started out early, I didn't know for sure.
23:16And I was saying all year long, like we really never got on a roll.
23:20I never felt like, wow, this group's special.
23:23I did see special things, but I never felt like, wow.
23:28But when the Padre series happened, the first series of the postseason for us after the bye,
23:35and we won a couple games the way we did, one and two, I'm like, you know what?
23:40This Padre team was really, really good.
23:43And I'm like, and they were hot.
23:47And I'm like, wow, you know, we might be able to do it.
23:53But we had the Dodgers looming, so then, you know.
23:56But during the season, I never, even though we won 103 games, I was just like,
24:01for whatever reason, it was daunting thinking about how hot the Padres were,
24:06how good the Cubs and familiar with us they were.
24:09So we had to play the winner of that.
24:10And then, obviously, if the Dodgers get through, wow, you know, we got that repeat series.
24:17So it was hard to have that feeling like, yeah, we're going to do it.
24:21You know, Murph, watching your team play, you know, when you watch a team for a week,
24:27you know, I think the national perception is, oh, there go the little brewers.
24:31And I'm like, the little brewers?
24:32The little brewers have great players.
24:34Like, Chirio's a great player.
24:36Terrain's a great player.
24:37Contreras is a great player.
24:38Mizorowski, this version of Ashby, McGill, Abner, Uribe.
24:43I mean, let's not kid ourselves about this.
24:46And so I just wonder, once you have the great players,
24:48how much of this is a journey of toughening up,
24:52of losing to the Dodgers four in a row and learning what that feels like
24:55and learning how to get through rounds of the playoffs
24:57and holding off the Cubs year after year.
25:00And finally, is that the last piece is kind of learning how to get through rounds of the playoffs?
25:05Yeah, I think it is.
25:06And it's not just like anyone can do it.
25:10Things have to go your way.
25:11You know, you have to have the team and then you have to have things kind of go your way.
25:16It's a crapshoot in the playoffs.
25:18I mean, look at the Padres.
25:19You know, we get a ball knocked off the roof that we catch,
25:23whether or not it's a home run or not, whatever.
25:25That could change the game.
25:26And then we have the incredible walk-off at bat after the at-bats to load the bases against Miller.
25:32I mean, that's putting yourself in a position to do it, but then also doing it and having,
25:38you know, that ball hit two inches to the right is caught by Cronenworth.
25:42And, you know, the rest might be history.
25:46So having the team that's willing to endure, the team that's willing to play that win tonight,
25:54with that win tonight mantra, that's the key.
25:58And then if you have that, and then those players look a little shinier because they're playing with each other.
26:03They're playing to win.
26:04You're not looking at their numbers.
26:06Like you're saying, you're not looking at Churio's numbers.
26:08You're saying, that kid's a great player.
26:10Well, look what he hit in the postseason, and you're not going to say, oh, my God, that was unbelievable.
26:16You know, you're just going to say, you know what you know from watching.
26:19Same thing.
26:20When the guys are playing winning baseball and they have confidence, God, that's scary.
26:27It's scary.
26:29Joel's right that you do have great players, but you were predicted to win 82 games.
26:33And, I mean, you have one $100 million player, which is not very many, particularly in that tough National League.
26:39I mean, you probably should win Manager of the Year for a third time in three years.
26:46What is the secret sauce?
26:48Why have you been so – I mean, this is your first full-time managing job at the Major League
26:54level.
26:55What is it that has made you this successful this quickly?
27:00Well, I don't consider myself that successful in my own mind.
27:05You know, I just don't.
27:07We can go off on a tangent and talk about that.
27:10But what's more important, what the secret sauce is people, and we've got the right people.
27:16You know, when you talk about a Churio, you talk about a Terang, you talk about a Yelich, you talk
27:21about a Contreras, those dudes are willing.
27:24You know what I mean?
27:25That's what it is.
27:26Those dudes are willing.
27:28You know, the answer to this might be that those dudes are willing.
27:31But I do wonder, you know, it became a question, I think, over the course of the season.
27:37You manage your players in a certain way.
27:39You're not – you have a standard, and if your players fall below the standard, you're not afraid to deal
27:47with it, including publicly.
27:49And there is maybe this feeling that could work in Milwaukee, but would it work everywhere?
27:53Now, I call bullcrap on the big city guys who say it wouldn't work there.
27:57I think players want to be led, but you've got to have a standard.
28:01Would the way you manage work – Chicago, New York, L.A., Boston, Philly?
28:07I don't know.
28:09I got my hands full here in Milwaukee, so I don't know.
28:13I'm talking more about the style, Murph, even the overview, like the ability to publicly hold players accountable.
28:21Well, it's no different than you writing in St. Louis.
28:25Could you, in your style, write in St. Louis?
28:29I'd have to keep the door locked, but yes.
28:31But, of course, you could.
28:33You know what I mean?
28:34We are who we are, and I'm going to get better, and I'm going to – and if I'm managing
28:40Jazz Chisholm or I'm managing Paul Goldschmidt, then it changes.
28:49You know, not your philosophy, not your standards, but it changes because it's just dealing with individuals and saying, do
28:56you understand the standards?
28:58You know, and don't put me in a position where, you know, you're falling below the standards or ignoring the
29:05standards, and if you are, then I've got to act.
29:08You're basically slapping me in the face or spitting at me saying, hey, look, I don't care about your standards.
29:13I'm going to do me.
29:14Well, if you're going to do you, then we're going to struggle.
29:17So let's get it out.
29:18What is you and what is me and what are the standards and how can you understand it better?
29:23And having those critical conversations, I think, is a key.
29:29Now, I'm not saying I'm better than anybody that's managing in those cities.
29:32Please believe me.
29:33I don't look at myself.
29:34I just don't as a great manager or as better than someone.
29:37I don't compare like that.
29:40I can't take the time.
29:41I got my hands full.
29:42The point being is the way we lead people, I think everybody has to be led a little differently.
29:50But in the general sense, it's not too far away.
29:55You know, it's just getting to know them.
29:57And, Joel, once they know you really give a damn about them and you love them, like love them to
30:04the point of, like, I care a lot about your life, about your success.
30:09Yes, I'm in the boat with you.
30:12But these things have to happen.
30:14And if we don't agree with that, then let's talk about it.
30:17But once we agree with it, then let's go.
30:20And we're going to have we're both going to have crappy days.
30:23I mean, Yelich came into my office at one point during the year.
30:26He wasn't going good.
30:28And I could tell our relationship felt strained a little bit.
30:32I don't know when exactly it was, but more than half the season, more than the halfway point.
30:38And he came in and sat down and he said, you know, and he started going.
30:42I said, let's just talk.
30:44And I said, tell me some of your frustrations.
30:47You know, tell me what's going on.
30:48And we had such a great conversation.
30:50But it wasn't easy.
30:52You know what I mean?
30:53It was him expressing some things.
30:55And I really thanked him.
30:58I said, that's awesome, man.
30:59I'm so happy you did that.
31:01And, you know, I don't want this to be a big thing.
31:05But it really helped me that he gave me the perspective that he thought in the kind of the way
31:12I should go down the road going forward.
31:16Knowing me as well as he has in the last eight years, whatever.
31:21So it really was helpful.
31:24Since you asked the question, I'll try to answer it.
31:26You certainly would play in New York.
31:29Joel in St. Louis?
31:30I don't know.
31:30I might have to think about that one.
31:32Joel's a New Yorker.
31:33Let's be fair.
31:34Right, Joel?
31:35I think that's fair.
31:36I did mention I'd have to lock the doors.
31:42Contreras, you mentioned him earlier as one of your good guys on your team.
31:45Now, in Atlanta, they traded him.
31:47And that was a great trade by the Brewers that was really worked out fantastically.
31:53And part of that was because Atlanta somehow just didn't love him personally.
31:58I think there was something.
31:59He was too emotional.
32:00They thought he was selfish.
32:02I don't know.
32:02Tell me.
32:03Now, you obviously, we know that you sat him for not hustling one time.
32:07And then he dived into first base head first.
32:10And you said, this is how we communicate.
32:12Tell me, really.
32:13How is your relationship with Contreras?
32:15And what are your actual thoughts about him?
32:18Yeah.
32:18I mean, first and foremost, he's a great player.
32:20Like, this kid's so capable.
32:22Like, the better version of Contreras is out there.
32:25I'm telling you.
32:26He still can get better.
32:28You know, way better.
32:31Because offensively, he's so dangerous.
32:34And he doesn't understand that yet.
32:38You know, he doesn't have the discipline at the plate yet.
32:42But he is a, you know, top 15 hitter in the game, potentially.
32:53And then defensively, his feel for the game, his willingness to lead,
32:57his feel for calling pitches is really good.
33:01Now, it gets sidetracked, too.
33:03But giving him that opportunity, Atlanta wasn't giving him that opportunity.
33:07And he was a young player.
33:09And he's emotional.
33:11And you make mistakes like that.
33:13You know, you do.
33:14You make mistakes.
33:15But I will tell you.
33:16Walt Weiss called me.
33:17And he said, Murph, there's a lot of good in this kid.
33:22I'm telling you, there's a lot of good in this kid.
33:24And that's all I needed to hear.
33:25And Walter and I are really close friends.
33:28And that's all I needed to hear.
33:30Now, has it been easy?
33:31No.
33:33Because getting through to some players is tough.
33:35And what they respect and what they don't respect and learning them, that's our job.
33:41So if you can't coach William Contreras, you're not going to be a successful coach, in my mind.
33:47You've got to be able to coach that guy.
33:48You've got to be able to coach that tough personality.
33:51And it's only tough because he's really a beautiful kid who just holds everything in, doesn't trust a lot of
33:57people, and has really, really high standards for himself.
34:01It could come off as selfish.
34:03But it's a good selfish because he understands how to be a winning player.
34:07So, yeah, I joke about it, but it was a great thing.
34:13We would never have won without him.
34:16He doesn't play good, or he's being selfish, or he's feeling slighted.
34:21You know, we don't win the thing.
34:24You know, Murph, maybe the World Series is kind of as close to a New York feel as you're going
34:29to get.
34:30And one of the things you learn along the way is the cameras are always on, the microphones are always
34:35on.
34:35So let me ask you about something you got caught saying during the World Series.
34:41It was really a nice gesture by Jake Bowers, right?
34:44He had the final ball that he had caught for the final out to end the World Series.
34:50He gave it to you, which I thought was a beautiful moment of appreciation and justice there.
34:58And he is a free agent now.
35:01And you said to him, and even the New Yorker, I'm going to bleep a little here.
35:06You're going to be a rich bleep.
35:08Just remember that when you were on that horse bleep Yankees team, and you guys were all playing for yourselves,
35:15just remember, this is the way we used to do it.
35:19I want to talk about what you were going for in the Yankees in the middle.
35:24And I will say, Bauer was a Yankee in 2023.
35:27It was the only time in about the last 10 years the Yankees didn't make the playoffs was 2023 when
35:32Bowers was there.
35:33And Bowers wasn't this Bowers.
35:35Right.
35:36So we had a little thing going.
35:37Once the regular season ended, I told him, Jake, you're going to be a rich son of a gun.
35:43You know, and so after every celebration, I'd shake his hand.
35:50I'd say, you rich so-and-so, you're going to leave us.
35:55We're not going to be able to pay it.
35:56You're going to leave us, you know, and you're going to forget all about how we did things, how you
36:01were using the opposite field, taking your walks, all the things that made you great.
36:06Swinging, you know, not auto-swinging 3-0 or 3-1, understanding the offensive game, understanding how to help your
36:14team, passing the baton.
36:16I would just give him this rhetoric every time.
36:18Oh, no, you'll forget all about us.
36:20You know, you're a rich guy now.
36:22You were one of us before.
36:24You know, you were a junkyard dog.
36:25Now you're going to be rich.
36:26So I didn't mean to say, like, these Yankees, like the 2026 or whatever Yankees are selfish.
36:37I was just referring to the teams that have a lot of, you know, high-paid, long-contract players that,
36:46you know, sometimes it's harder to get all those guys together to play together.
36:52And, you know, I used the Yankees because I knew Jake was with them before.
36:57But, yeah, I mean, I called Brian Cashman right away when I heard it got out.
37:03I didn't know how to help Mike.
37:04But I heard the next morning we were at the parade and everybody was talking about it.
37:10And I'm like, what?
37:11How did they hear that?
37:13You know, like, hot Mike.
37:14And I'm like, whatever.
37:16So I picked up the phone and called Brian right away and had a good conversation.
37:20And the best I could try to explain that I wasn't talking about the 2026 Yankees.
37:25I was just kind of referring to the teams with a lot of money that signed a lot of players
37:31that sometimes end up, you know, not being that little, you know, little engine that could, so to speak.
37:38You know what I mean?
37:39More of a high expectation.
37:41I got to get mine.
37:42I mean, I regret, I regret saying it.
37:46But, yeah, that was Jake and I's humor behind the scenes.
37:50And, yeah, I got caught.
37:52Did Cashman buy it?
37:56He's just such a good guy, man.
37:57He's just a level-headed.
37:58I mean, he's been through so much.
38:00He's got, you know, how many years has he been in New York?
38:05Oh, 29.
38:0629 as GM.
38:08Probably 40 since, you know, the beginning.
38:11He joined the organization in the late 80s.
38:13He became the GM in 98.
38:15Yeah.
38:16But, I mean, that's iconic.
38:17You know what I mean?
38:17He's been through everything.
38:18You know, I wish I had his demeanor and his way of handling things.
38:26But, yeah, I felt horribly if I slandered the Yankees because I was just, you know, kind of referring to
38:35them as this iconic machine that maybe isn't as, I don't know.
38:43It's just an easy way to refer to it.
38:45But it wasn't smart on my part.
38:48I'm sorry about it.
38:51Let me just say this is what makes you special.
38:53I heard a lot of people complaining that that got out.
38:56And, you know, I mean, I guess it's kind of a gray area.
38:59We were kind of in the afterglow of that you were champion there.
39:03But we're all on the field.
39:04The media is there.
39:05There are cameras there.
39:06There are mics there.
39:07I don't know exactly how it got out.
39:09It wasn't me.
39:10But it sounded like you were trying to admit something there.
39:13No, no, it's not me.
39:15I'm not very good with technology.
39:17So it was not me.
39:18But I will say I appreciate the fact that you apologize and you talk to Cashman and you don't blame
39:25the media for it.
39:26Because it is unusual that something like that, which is a private conversation, although it kind of happened in a
39:31public setting.
39:32So anyway, so I appreciate that.
39:35But you're in a public setting, you have responsibility.
39:39And those words, I mean, I could have said, Jake, don't forget about us.
39:43You know, don't forget about us.
39:45You know, you're rich now.
39:46You know, don't remember little people.
39:49I did not have to refer like that.
39:52But that was kind of Jake and I's thing because he came back to being, I don't want to hit
39:58homers.
39:58I don't want to just hit homers.
39:59I want to be a complete offensive player.
40:02You know, he had 10 bags.
40:03Yes, he played hurt, you know.
40:07And again, his walk rate has got to be the top in the league or one of them.
40:11You know, those are things that make guys special, you know.
40:14And he had never done that, never got that opportunity.
40:17So I don't know, man.
40:20Yeah.
40:21Well, you were right again.
40:23And I'm not quite as cautious as Joel.
40:25He is now a rich fucker.
40:27So he is getting, I did get the qualifying offer, right?
40:32So 23 points.
40:33So that qualifies by my standard as rich.
40:36Yeah, that's rich.
40:37That's rich.
40:38Let me ask you about the other team because you came very close to becoming the Mets manager.
40:43You had three interviews.
40:44They flew you in, I believe, three times.
40:48And Brody Van Wagenen, who was the GM at the time, was going to hire you.
40:52I think that is clear.
40:53He's my agent now.
40:55He is your agent now.
40:56So that shows you how much he likes you.
40:58It shows all of us how much he likes you.
41:03Obviously, they decided to switch at the last minute.
41:06It wasn't Brody's call.
41:07They hired Carlos Beltran.
41:08He didn't last one game.
41:10We'll get into all that at this point.
41:12But I wanted to ask you about that.
41:14There is some, what were your thoughts at the time?
41:18I know, you know, you were a bench coach, so you're going to be manager.
41:22You're probably taking the job, I assume, but you let me know that.
41:26What did you think about that?
41:28My understanding, I heard that when they flew you in,
41:30they didn't exactly get you the top ticket on the plane.
41:34I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.
41:37It's a little surprising.
41:39Now you want me to beat up the Mets.
41:40Now you want me to say something about the Mets.
41:43You can lie.
41:44You don't have to beat up the Mets.
41:45You don't have to say it was 34B.
41:4936B.
41:5036B.
41:51I'm sorry.
41:52God damn it.
41:52We talked about it, and I forgot it was 36.
41:54I mean, you're getting a big job.
41:57You should be flown, if not private, at least first class.
42:00Anyway, tell me about that situation and what you think now.
42:03I think the plane thing was just more a matter of it was hurried.
42:06When can you get in here?
42:08Whatever.
42:09And I think it was hurried.
42:11I told them I wanted to fly direct.
42:12I didn't want to jump all over the country.
42:14And that's what led to the 36B.
42:19And I had no problem with it.
42:23Well, it wasn't very comfortable, but I didn't have any problem.
42:26You're not a small man, Murph.
42:28So, sure enough, yeah, I was excited about the job, you know,
42:34and I was excited to meet Brody and all the people that I met through it.
42:38They have a great interview process.
42:40I mean, it was tremendous.
42:41I mean, literally, I was sitting there at one point in a round table.
42:44They showed video of a game, and then they would stop it.
42:48And I was armed with all the information, who was available in the bullpen,
42:52who had pitched recently, what the game score was, what the situation was,
42:56who had the game card in front of me, and they were giving me situations.
43:00What would you do?
43:02You know, think about this.
43:04What are your considerations here?
43:05You know, and then they did another portion,
43:09and they did like five or six scenarios there.
43:11Then another portion of it was doing a mock press conference,
43:16and then it was doing a mock postgame,
43:18and they brought in employees from the Mets to sit in the crowd.
43:22And, man, Jessica Mendoza was one of them, and we laughed about it this week.
43:28But, you know, so they had those experiences and asked tough questions.
43:34It was Robinson Canoza 0 for 24.
43:37Is he still your three-hole hitter?
43:39And you got to answer right then, you know what I mean?
43:41And some of it's, you know, hypothetical, whatever.
43:45I mean, all of it's made up, but there's some really good questions.
43:49And I love the process.
43:50And then I got to meet with the owner, and, you know, it is what it was.
43:56But, yeah, I thought for 100% I was getting the job until that last meeting
44:03with the owner.
44:04I kind of knew they were going in a different direction,
44:09or he was going in a different direction.
44:12So I was upset about that.
44:14I put in a lot of time.
44:17I wanted to do it.
44:19You know, my daughter lives right outside the city there in Jersey.
44:22Jersey, my grandkids are there.
44:25You know, I wanted to do it.
44:27Yeah.
44:28And just to be clear, the owner we're talking about at that time
44:30is Jeff Wilpon, right?
44:32Yes.
44:33You know, Murph, when I worked on that story, I called Brody,
44:37and something stuck out to me that you had recruited Brody
44:41to try to come to Notre Dame.
44:44Right.
44:44And, like, when he went to Stanford.
44:45And I realized probably over the last 40 years of baseball,
44:49there's, like, six degrees of Pat Murphy.
44:51Like, somehow I could connect everybody to you.
44:54And now I think to the champions go the spoils.
44:57Maybe it's outside of baseball.
44:58You did work part of Saturday Night Live last week.
45:04And why don't you tell us some of the famous people you ended up
45:07sharing some time with, not only on air,
45:11but apparently off air as well, right?
45:14Yeah, I wasn't going to go to the after party, but...
45:18I'll take your tickets, man, anytime.
45:20Yeah.
45:23Lauren Michaels and Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg,
45:27we all went up in Lauren Michaels' office with Yellich and Terang,
45:33and we just sat there.
45:35Abrams, the guy that developed, the producer that developed Star Trek.
45:39JJ Abrams, yeah.
45:40Yeah, yeah.
45:42Seven of us sat there.
45:45And no beverages, just sat there and conversed.
45:48I gave Tom Hanks my game hat from the World Series.
45:51I didn't wear it on the show,
45:53but I had my game hat with me from the World Series.
45:55And it fit perfectly.
45:56And he said, I'm not taking it off, Murph.
45:59I'm wearing this.
45:59So it's going to get paint on it.
46:01It's going to get garbage on it.
46:03The next time you see it, it's going to be dirty.
46:06I'm not putting it on a shelf.
46:08I'm wearing it.
46:09And we had such great conversations.
46:11And, you know, Lauren's a huge Yankees fan.
46:14So he ran down the whole hot mic thing with me and, you know,
46:21you know, gave me his opinion and all that kind of stuff.
46:23And I was just like, wow.
46:25You know, and I, you know, Aaron Boone, I've gotten to know him,
46:29and I really, really like him.
46:31You know, I really, really like him.
46:32So Lauren and I were discussing that.
46:36Hanks is doing a movie about being a pitching coach.
46:40You know, he's going to be a pitching coach in a movie or something like that.
46:42So he said he was studying my mannerisms.
46:46And he goes, ah, I really didn't get much from you.
46:49You just got the same face for nine innings.
46:53So, yeah, we just had it.
46:56It's just wonderful to be around such guys that have achieved so much.
47:01Last thing, Murph, our mutual friend and colleague,
47:06I think it was in Tom Verducci's article, Closing the World Series,
47:09that before the finale, you were working on some stuff for 2027
47:14in spring training already, which, of course, probably just like a glove.
47:20I wonder what you just think about the near future.
47:23You're going to be a championship manager.
47:25Like, what do you think moving forward here?
47:28Yeah, I mean, I love that thought.
47:32You know, I sat at my table this morning, the same table I'm sitting at,
47:35and, you know, did the same thing.
47:37Did more notes on individual players and maybe things that I'd like to leave them
47:42with that they can work on when they begin their workouts.
47:47Yeah, I mean, it's what you do.
47:49That's not surprising.
47:50You know, that's what you do every day.
47:53It's your club.
47:53Well, I tell people, you know, I write their names down on a yellow pad, you know,
48:00and if you have the longer legal size yellow pad, you fit all their 26 names on it easily,
48:06and there's more than 26 because there's guys on the fringe.
48:09And then you just, what's a message for them or what's something I need to remind them?
48:15Or, I mean, it could be something personal.
48:18It could be something about their conditioning.
48:20It could be something about their repertoire.
48:22It could be something about, you know, something simple.
48:26You know, how do you stay behind the ball when you're not feeling strong?
48:30You know, you're not feeling, I wrote this morning, when you're not strong and it's game 132,
48:36how do you keep yourself from drifting and feeling weak so you feel like you've got to generate more?
48:41How do you do that?
48:42What's the reminder?
48:43What's the key that you can tell yourself so you don't do that?
48:48You know, just little things that it's fresh in your mind.
48:50So, you know, one of my key takeaways is, like, in the World Series, in the playoffs,
48:58you're not going to get a matchup.
49:00You know what I mean?
49:01You can fight for a matchup all you want.
49:03You're going to have to hit left on left.
49:04If you're a right-handed hitter and you don't deal with right-handed slider well,
49:09well, you're going to get beat.
49:11So let's work on that now because in the postseason,
49:15you've got to be able to be productive somehow.
49:18I don't mean hit 500.
49:21You have to be productive.
49:23So how do you do that?
49:24And if you're a pitcher, you've got to get out the opposite-handed people.
49:27You've got to be good at it.
49:29You've got to know how to not give up damage.
49:32Take advantage of guys that are emotional and want to swing.
49:36I mean, there's a lot of guys in the series that I notice that just are in a hurry to
49:42get their bat over
49:43because they're uptight.
49:45How do you fight that?
49:46You know?
49:48You know, I did hear that you were preparing for spring training right after you won the World Series.
49:54I'm wondering, first of all, it's four months to spring training,
49:58and if we are even having spring training, it might be six months or eight months.
50:03Who even knows?
50:04I mean, as you think about this, and you're a very smart guy,
50:06does this strike you as crazy?
50:08And did anybody stop you from doing this and say,
50:11well, let's celebrate.
50:13This is a pretty good thing we just did.
50:17It doesn't strike me as crazy,
50:21although one might say I am,
50:23or maybe more than one.
50:27It's just what I do.
50:28You know, like, it's just,
50:29that's all there is to it.
50:31I mean, this is my life.
50:32And I'm not going to Europe.
50:34I'm not, you know,
50:37I'm just not interested.
50:40And I got my kids and, you know,
50:45this job, my health,
50:46and things like that.
50:47I don't have,
50:48I don't have a lot of other things that motivate me the way
50:52impacting players motivates me.
50:55You know, Murph,
50:56that's the perfect way to end it,
50:58because I think
51:00the column I wrote at the end of the World Series
51:02was the right team won.
51:03You know,
51:04the team that had been best all year won.
51:06The team that played the best in the postseason won.
51:09The best team won.
51:10It was right that the right manager won also a baseball lifer.
51:15Like you just said,
51:16it's,
51:18and look,
51:19we're selfish,
51:19John and I,
51:20you're a friend of the show.
51:22And it was,
51:24you know,
51:24when I saw you down on the field,
51:26it made me feel good to go up and shake your hand and say,
51:29congratulations on winning.
51:30And I,
51:30I feel good that I get to do it again.
51:34Murph,
51:34congratulations on something well-earned being a championship manager.
51:38Well,
51:38Hey man,
51:38thank you guys.
51:39I appreciate you guys.
51:42Yeah.
51:42I've always,
51:43I respect what you guys do,
51:44you know,
51:44and unfortunately I don't read your stuff.
51:47So maybe I wouldn't respect you.
51:50Well,
51:50maybe if I moved to St.
51:51Louis,
51:51you'll read me.
51:52So apparently that's a big part of this.
51:54I'll be,
51:55I'll be really interested in that.
51:56I'll be in your division.
51:58Let me just say,
51:59you're not just a friend of the show.
52:00You are the friend of the show.
52:01I keep score and you've been on here more than any Yankee.
52:04I still can't believe it.
52:06And you're like Tom Hanks on Saturday night live.
52:08You got to get one of those jackets.
52:09Come on here.
52:11You better check your ratings then.
52:12Cause the boring guys usually don't get good ratings.
52:15Well,
52:16I mean,
52:16you were on the today show SNL and now you're doing us.
52:19So we're flattered.
52:20We really are.
52:21Thank you guys.
52:22All the best.
52:23Have a healthy off season.
52:24I hope we do see you in regular spring training.
52:27Alrighty.
52:28Look forward to it.
52:29All the best.
52:29Thanks Murph.
52:30Thank you guys.
52:37John and I,
52:38of course,
52:38thank Pat Murphy for joining us once again on the show.
52:42John hit or error.
52:44Yeah.
52:44Murphy's the best.
52:45I'm tempted to give him the hit,
52:46but I'm going to give the hit to a contact hitting.
52:49I'm glad to see that back in baseball.
52:51The two teams in the world series were the leaders in hit singles,
52:56batting average.
52:58It's not all about launch angle.
53:00Thank God.
53:01Hopefully we're through that.
53:02It's a copycat sport.
53:04I'm hoping other teams do copy them.
53:06I think now with the average fastball up from,
53:09we used to be when I started around 90,
53:11now it's around 95 for the average fastball.
53:14I think the launch angle stuff and they're going for the home run stuff.
53:17It's over at least temporarily.
53:19And you got to put your bat on the ball and congratulations to the Brewers and the Rays for
53:25being ahead on this.
53:26It might be partly because they couldn't afford the power hitters,
53:28but they're also very smart franchises.
53:31And they did do a great job as well.
53:33Yeah.
53:33I wonder if the Yankees hear you on that,
53:35John.
53:35I don't know that they believe that.
53:38I'm going to give a error,
53:42not because there's not great people on this new,
53:47the new era ballot,
53:49the contemporary ballot,
53:50what used to be the veterans committee,
53:52eight people were mentioned.
53:53I think we all expect that Dusty Baker and Bruce Bochy are going to emerge from that eight person ballot
53:59and be elected to the Hall of Fame next month,
54:02early December.
54:03There's a 16 member committee.
54:05You got to get 12 votes from that committee to get in.
54:08John and I,
54:09this is a smaller committee.
54:11John and I are not on like the big,
54:12big one for the Hall of Fame for the BBWA.
54:16But I'm confused.
54:18Lou Piniella and Dusty Baker are on the ballot,
54:22John,
54:22and I'm here to say,
54:23yeah,
54:24great.
54:24The Hall of Fame,
54:25both should be in there.
54:26Tell me how they separate themselves from Davy Johnson and Felipe Alou,
54:30who are not on this ballot.
54:32Like,
54:33I think all of them have very similar backgrounds.
54:35They were all well above average baseball players who were not Hall of Famers as baseball players,
54:41but like who wouldn't have taken every one of their careers.
54:44They were all long.
54:46They played long and played well.
54:48They all managed in multiple places and succeeded.
54:52They all,
54:53except for Felipe,
54:55won a World Series championship as a manager.
54:58Felipe,
54:59though,
54:59I would say more than makes up for that.
55:01He was the first star born and raised in the Dominican who played in the major leagues.
55:07He is the patriarch of the first family of Dominican baseball.
55:11We know one of his sons,
55:12one of his sons is Moises Alou,
55:14who was a great player.
55:15We know well his other son,
55:17Luis Rojas,
55:18who was a manager of the Mets and has been third base coach of the Yankees.
55:23I just feel like Davey Johnson has passed.
55:28Felipe Alou is in his 90s.
55:32It's worse.
55:33If we're going to get to this and you're going to do it 10 years after a guy passes,
55:36I think you're missing an opportunity to celebrate a great baseball,
55:41great baseball lives while people are here.
55:43I know you could probably say that about all eight guys who are on this,
55:47but I just don't see how,
55:49like when you're splitting hairs on these managers,
55:52why are,
55:53why,
55:54why are,
55:55and you know,
55:56we love Dusty's a friend of this show.
55:57Lou Piniello has been great to us over the years.
55:59Like,
55:59like they belong in the hall of fam.
56:01This is not a rant against them.
56:04It's a,
56:04how do they separate themselves from Davey Johnson and Felipe Alou for me?
56:08I miss this.
56:10Yeah.
56:11I have a thought on that,
56:11but my bigger thought on it is that the hall of fame is too exclusionary.
56:16The idea that we knock people off the ballot,
56:18if they don't have 5% of the vote,
56:20that doesn't make any sense.
56:21We've knocked off so many guys who are,
56:24have excellent cases for the hall of fame with 3%,
56:284%,
56:29whatever.
56:30We,
56:30we just look ridiculous.
56:32Let the ballot be bigger.
56:34I don't know.
56:34They,
56:34they like to have so many committees.
56:36They have some committee that limits it to eight.
56:38I don't know any reason why it had to be eight.
56:40Certainly Davey Johnson and Felipe Alou are deserving of certainly very
56:46strong consideration.
56:48Aaron,
56:48that category,
56:49it is a difficult thing.
56:50There is a lot,
56:51you know,
56:51it's all very gray area.
56:53It's all,
56:54you know,
56:55unless you're Ken Griffey Jr.
56:56Or,
56:57you know,
56:58Bruce Bochy,
56:59you know,
56:59you're probably borderline,
57:01right?
57:01You know,
57:01you know,
57:02it's not easy,
57:03but I I'm with you.
57:05I agree.
57:06Certainly both Piniella,
57:09certainly both Lou and Davey Johnson deserve it as well as,
57:13as you mentioned,
57:14Piniella and the others that are on the ballot.
57:17Yeah.
57:17I'm not sure.
57:18Some of it,
57:19my smaller point is some of it has to do with marketing,
57:21right?
57:22That's life,
57:23right?
57:23Yes.
57:23Somebody has a big name.
57:25It goes beyond their actual record.
57:27And that has helped enable some people with one world series win as a
57:32manager to get into the hall of fame and others who have to,
57:35to not even be on any of these ballots.
57:37Like Cito Gaston is not.
57:39Tom Kelly.
57:41Yeah.
57:42Tom Kelly won two,
57:44you know,
57:44right?
57:44They're like the Tom Flores.
57:46I think it's marketing.
57:47Tom Kelly retired quickly and is a quiet guy and isn't out there.
57:52And is it funny?
57:53Like some of the guys who've gotten in or have,
57:55you know,
57:56big name and a big market,
57:57you know,
57:59that's life though.
58:00That's for,
58:01that goes for everything.
58:02Not just the hall of fame.
58:03Marketing is a,
58:04unfortunately a big part of things.
58:06It's about perception as much as reality.
58:08I wonder what you're talking about there.
58:10Anyway,
58:10what we're talking about here is what a great producer Tommy Hogan is.
58:14Thank you,
58:14Tommy,
58:15for helping us as you do every week,
58:17Apple,
58:17Spotify,
58:18wherever you listen to podcasts,
58:20please rate and review us.
58:21The New York post sports YouTube page.
58:24Give us a view.
58:24And the off season is often running free agency trades.
58:29And please stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman for the entire winter of transactions
58:35and more.