- 12 minutes ago
For this year's installment of the agents panel, Billboard has convened leading executives from several key agencies, representing artists from Bad Bunny to Gracie Abrams, to discuss how booking is evolving, the challenges agents face today across genres, and where this sector of the live business is headed going forward.
The 2026 Billboard Live Music Summit takes place on Nov. 10 at the 1 Hotel in West Hollywood. This event brings together artists, executives, promoters, managers and other leaders shaping the live music business. Through conversations, panels and networking, the summit explores the ideas, opportunities and challenges influencing the future of live music.
The 2026 Billboard Live Music Summit takes place on Nov. 10 at the 1 Hotel in West Hollywood. This event brings together artists, executives, promoters, managers and other leaders shaping the live music business. Through conversations, panels and networking, the summit explores the ideas, opportunities and challenges influencing the future of live music.
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MusicTranscript
00:00Hello. Thanks everybody for coming to the agents panel today. For anybody who's
00:06new here, the agent panel is always our most well-behaved panel. But let's get
00:13into it because we have some of the best people to talk to about touring here
00:17today and I think we should probably start with the economics of touring. So
00:23some tours we've seen this year are doing astronomical numbers, absolutely
00:28incredible. Other ones are kind of collapsing. I'm curious if you see this
00:34as a economics issue or just kind of where the post-pandemic world is kind of
00:42settling. Go for it. I mean I think it started with the pandemic when we came
00:54back. There was definitely an over-indexing of touring. There was people that were
00:58hungry for tickets. There was a lot of bands doing very well. And now it's sort
01:03of self-corrected in the, I would say, in the middle ground. However, the upper
01:09echelon artists are still selling a ton of tickets. That side of the business is
01:15thriving. But all of the, in the middle, I would say theater acts, it's a bit of a,
01:20it's a bit more of a grind, a little slower ticket selling. As far as the
01:25economics go, obviously everything's extremely expensive. So I think artists
01:31are seeing their bottom dollar kind of going down. So I think there's a lot of
01:36trying to find that sweet spot of the ticket prices not being overpriced, but
01:42also still generate enough money to, to pay the bills and actually try to come
01:46home with some at the end of the day. Yeah. I think there's, there's a lot of
01:49pressures being applied from all different angles of touring. I think we all see
01:54ticket prices higher than they've been before, which I think then instills a bit
02:00of pressure on the artists to want to bring a bigger production than before, not
02:04to mention just competition also amongst artists to want to one up each other
02:08constantly, especially at the big level. And that's expensive. And then going on
02:14tour and the logistics of going on tour is more expensive than it's ever been
02:18before. So I think all of these things sort of combined in a bit of a perfect
02:22storm of pressure. And so we have to find the right middle ground for every
02:28different artist at whatever level it is to try and exist, succeed, and make money
02:35at the level they're comfortable with based on the conditions that they're each
02:37faced with relative to where they are in their careers.
02:40I think the margins are just so razor thin now where a successful sold out tour can
02:46come, you know, whether it's profitable or not, can come down to just a couple of
02:50decisions. It can come to, you know, the number of off days and, and the cost of a
02:55certain element within the production. And so, um, you know, having that razor thin
03:01margin just applies a lot of pressure, uh, on, on the entire ecosystem really. Um, and I think
03:08that ticket prices are still going up, but I don't think that they're increasing at the
03:12same rate that they were the last three years. We were seeing like double digit
03:15percentage growth, ticket price increases. And I think we're starting to hit a little
03:20bit of resistance, um, on that upper end. So, you know, while costs continue to increase,
03:27you know, double digits and inflation continues to increase in the costs, um, the ticket prices
03:32will sort of, sort of start to reach a threshold and, and those two things become
03:37unequal.
03:38I think also the volume of tours out is always now so vast that it's impossible for
03:44everything to be successful. Like there's just too many people have to make a decision.
03:48Am I going to this? Am I going to that? And I think that's been evolving even probably
03:53pre COVID, but not everything can win. And I think sometimes, um, we may put it on economics,
04:00but a lot of artists are playing rooms that they shouldn't be playing in. And, and, you
04:05know, we are victim to it where an artist sees on social media, oh, I want to play arenas
04:10because my peers are doing that. Well, you're worth 3000 tickets. And I think a lot of times
04:15the agents and the managers need to be more honest. And because a lot of the lack of success
04:19on certain artists, I think there's just the overshooting of rooms.
04:23I agree. I think two things are happening simultaneously. You have the top 10% of tours that are doing
04:28incredibly well. And then you have that developing and middle tier that's getting squeezed. Right.
04:33And I think the onus is on us as agents to make really strategic decisions, you know, to incorporate
04:40more flexibility in our touring strategy, um, to be mindful of scaling, to be mindful of rolling
04:45into plus ones and plus twos, um, and to be really smart about how we package. So it's just a
04:51return to
04:51the fundamentals.
04:53It's also just such a balance between, you know, yes, there is, you know, that pushback
04:58on some of those P ones, you know, up front. Um, but also just having, you know, um, just
05:05the variety of ticket prices and price points and entry points for, you know, a variety of
05:09consumer who, you know, might not be able to sit up front and, you know, you want to keep
05:14that balance as well, but while balancing the overall budget of the tour and keeping it
05:18all in the black.
05:19Yeah. Can you explain what you mean by, uh, P one, Josh?
05:23Up front.
05:25First, first, highest ticket price.
05:27Yeah, exactly.
05:28Just making sure we got all the jargon out of the way. Um, so I'm curious, I mean, as agents,
05:33when you're talking about these razor thin margins, what are some of the things that you
05:37can do to kind of offset that, to make sure that you don't lose money on a tour or the
05:43artist
05:43doesn't lose money on the tour? Are there a couple of things that you're like, okay, these
05:46are the first things we think of when we have to figure out how to save a little bit of
05:49money
05:49or make a little bit more money?
05:51I would say that I think that the, the conversations between all the different members of the team
05:57have to happen early. And that's the agent, the manager, the production manager, uh, everyone
06:05who would have a stake in deciding the scale of the tour, the artist understand what the
06:08goals are, obviously. Um, and then we have to work toward those goals. Um, you know, there,
06:14there are situations when making money may not even be the goal. It may be just trying to,
06:19to, uh, to ascend to a new level at a break even. Uh, and there may be on the flip
06:23side
06:24situations where making money is the only goal. And so, you know, making sure your prices are high
06:29and your expenses are low is what you're, what you're gunning for. But we've all got to be part
06:33of that conversation to understand what the goal is for that individual situation and then work
06:37toward it. I agree. I think understanding your clients, their needs and, and getting that out
06:43of the way first and foremost is really key. You know, some artists teams are going to want to take
06:49an extra day off and others are going to, to want to push through, um, just from a cost perspective.
06:54So it really is up to the artist and that manager's priority.
06:57It starts with the production. That's going to be the most expensive thing that the artist decides on.
07:01Um, yeah. And production keeps getting more and more expensive. I think Jaybo was the one that
07:07mentioned it, but you know, uh, artists are trying to kind of continuing to elevate that. So it's
07:12becoming more and more expensive to do all these tours. I think on the revenue side, if you don't
07:18take advantage of the tools like platinum and dynamic and aisle seating, you're leaving money on the
07:24table. That's inevitably just going to go to the secondary market. Sometimes the artists and their
07:28teams are resistant to that, but I think more and more it's, uh, a mistake not to use those tools.
07:34Is it hard to communicate that to the audience when they get into a ticketing queue and they're like,
07:39Oh no, dynamic pricing, which has become a, uh, negative term for a lot of consumers.
07:44That's what the internet is for. We'll leave that out to that.
07:48No, I think, I think fans are accustomed now to dynamic pricing. I think there was like a,
07:53you know, an adjustment period, but people played dynamically for a lot of things, you know, hotel
07:59rooms, flights, things like that. And it just took a while for people to catch on that, that was going
08:03to happen with ticketing as well. Um, so I think clear messaging and clear delineation of like what
08:09each ticket is, whether it's a platinum ticket, whether it's dynamically priced. Um, so the fan doesn't
08:15feel like they've been tricked or fooled in any way is important, but I do think we're going to see
08:20hopefully a bit of, you know, subsiding of that chatter, um, as people become accustomed to that.
08:26You have to be strategic about it. You have to, you have to like, not just pull the bandaid off
08:31and open up the faucet. You have to be smart about where you use platinum, how much you use,
08:36where you use aisle pricing. Um, cause if you don't put a, put a cap on it, if you don't
08:44pay attention to
08:44it, it can turn into a large press piece where the fans get crazy. And I won't name any names,
08:50but yeah, to know your audience as well. And your artist and their threshold for,
08:54you know, Hey, if, do they read the comments, do they not read the comments, you know? Um,
08:58and, uh, are they going to see people complaining about this? Uh, and have you set, uh, you know,
09:05limit on the dynamic in a way where they're not going to be complaint, you know, it's just such a
09:10balance.
09:12And you kind of mentioned it earlier, Robbie, but this like shrinking middle class of artists
09:17where it's becoming harder for them to, uh, have a profitable tour. Do we see that continuing or is
09:23it just not right now is a bad time for kind of that middle tier to be touring or do
09:28we see that
09:29changing? I mean, it's really, it comes down to the traffic in the marketplace, right? Um, there's more
09:36bands touring than ever. Um, there's a lot of big artists that are taking up all the headlines,
09:43right? There's more people going to, there's more artists going into stadiums than ever before.
09:48So, um, you just have to, I mean, I, I don't, I, I believe that this business is only going
09:53to go
09:54up and that these bands are always going to find success in touring. So I just think it's about
09:58being smart about, um, when and where and how you, uh, you place your artists.
10:04I think the erosion of, of the middle class is one of the greatest challenges that we're facing
10:08as agents. I think that, you know, the health of the live industry is not just based on how
10:13global superstars are doing in the top 5% are doing. I think we have to do everything we can
10:18to ensure that we're taking care of that middle tier and taking care of that next generation of
10:23arena headliners and stadium headliners. Otherwise, there's just not going to be a pathway for them.
10:29Yeah. Seems, uh, like if, if they're not doing any, if they can't do anything, if they can't show off,
10:35if they can't go see their audiences, obviously the amphitheaters and then the arenas and your next big
10:42folks aren't going to happen. And I think the knock on effect of that is your success can only
10:48be determined by a viral hit that happens digitally, then propels you, kind of overshoots the, the
10:54theater business and just gets you straight into arenas. Well, that has like a huge negative effect
10:59on, um, you know, the diversity of genres because some genres are more prone to that type of thing
11:05happening. Um, so agree with Shireen, really important that we have to protect that middle class
11:09of touring artists. And clearly there's still a business there for it, right? I mean, if you look
11:14at AEG and Live Nation, they're building dozens of 4,000 capacity venues or 2,500. So they see the
11:22value in that size in these markets. So, uh, there's, I mean, I personally have a client where
11:28we've decided to play nothing but ballrooms and we've reduced, we, he reduced our, uh, Jack White,
11:35he's reduced his production costs by downsizing his band size, uh, the amount of production he brings on
11:40the road. We play the middle tier, uh, ballrooms. We do multiples in the markets where it's there.
11:46And the economics have kind of leveled out and he's, he's doing quite well and it's working
11:51out for him. And he, so there's, there is a strategy and a business for that size, um, building
11:58an artist. I think you have to be smart on that level with packaging and give consumers a reason
12:03to come out. I think just expecting, Oh, we're going to put this artist in the same venues year
12:09after year. That's not going to work. You're competing against not only so many other shows,
12:13but so many entertainment options that I just think, you know, on that level, you have to be
12:18really smart and intelligent about giving fans more for their money. Yeah. And Christina, you kind
12:24of touched on it a little bit, but we have seen ticket prices going up and up and you were
12:29saying
12:29that we're maybe hitting some sort of a peak, some sort of threshold of where, uh, what people are
12:36willing to pay. Um, do you see that in the next coming year kind of plateauing or will we still
12:43continue to see those platinum seats, the dynamic pricing going up and then the rest of the tickets
12:48kind of staying flat? Well, I think it's, I think ticket prices are still going up just to be clear.
12:53I just think they're not experiencing the same growth. We're starting to see a little bit of
12:57price resistance where it was like ticket prices were going up 30% year on year. I don't think that
13:01that's as a general statement, it's hard to make general statements, but you know, the same rate of
13:08increase of ticket prices. So I think we just have to be really conscious about it. Um, you know,
13:12there are a lot of tours out there. People can pick and choose from a number of options,
13:18entertainment options as well. And so, you know, I think we just have to be really, really, uh,
13:23conservative on our ticket prices. I think it's been such a sea change in our business
13:28post pandemic in terms of the way ticket pricing has been approached that we saw such a dramatic rise
13:33and change in that model and the behavior of consumers post pandemic that expecting that,
13:39as Christina is saying that, expecting that to consistently rise is just unrealistic,
13:43right? At some point we're going to, we're going to even out. And I think we're probably around there
13:47right now. Um, but I think we're, we're establishing concert going as sort of a luxury experience in a lot
13:53of ways now. And you know, if you look at reports of like what people do socially these days, they
14:01do less
14:01of most things that are socially, they do less of having people over for dinner. They go, they do less
14:06of going out to dinner with their friends, but they do more of going to concerts, which is great for
14:10all of us, right? But it would make sense that that costs more, um, to do something that people prefer
14:17to do because the demand is higher now. So I think it justifies the rise in ticket prices to a
14:22market
14:22value where it is now, but to expect it to keep going up the way it has been the last
14:26five years is
14:26crazy. I think I actually think it is. There is still plenty of room for the biggest artists to
14:32keep raising prices. I think when you look at, you know, whether it's football or basketball,
14:38I mean, you go to a Lakers or Knicks playoff game, people are spending thousands of dollars like
14:42nothing. So why should it be less to see the biggest artists with the best production? You're getting
14:50arguably a better experience. So to me, there's still room. It's just getting the fan accustomed
14:56as you said that it, this is a luxury experience. Yeah. And another, another thing that I imagine
15:03is impacting agents a lot is that you have to book out further and further in advance. Now,
15:09you're talking to venues and they've got holds, you know, five deep. I'm curious. So how is having
15:16to book out so much further impacting your job? I think you got to be flexible. You know, I think
15:25we are booking so far out at this point, because if you want to achieve an ideal routing at an
15:31ideal
15:31time period, you really do have to go. I mean, we're booking in 2028 and 2029 in some cases, which
15:36is crazy. It also means you have to predict a lot of things and take a lot of educated guesses
15:42about
15:43where you think an artist is going to be in that number of years. But a lot of different things
15:48can
15:48change in those intervening years. Albums can push market factors. And so, you know, you got to be
15:55ready to route and reroute many times. I think we're living in such an interesting time right
16:01now where there's been so much volatility in the label system. And I think the rest of the industry
16:07is really looking to agents to act as the architects for a rollout, you know, and creating
16:14that blueprint. Just yesterday, I had a manager ask me for a 27 and 28 plan to share with the
16:21label so
16:22that they could kind of reverse engineer it and create a rollout from there. And I think that's
16:26just going to be happening more and more. Also, thank you to all of the our promoter partners
16:31everywhere for being so patient because, you know, pre pandemic, there was I mean, there was some
16:38fluctuation in your routing, album got pushed, whatever. But now it's, you know, it's the show is,
16:43I don't know, not confirmed until it's announced, you know, and, and that can be very, very hard,
16:50both on promoters and on us as well. Yeah, it's difficult because you're dealing with
16:56festivals that you want to incorporate into your routing and the festival buyers have their own
17:01schedule, which doesn't, they don't book two years in advance, you know, they have to get
17:05through the current year before they can really focus on. So it's, it's problematic when you don't
17:11know what the record cycle is, and you're booking tours, you know, 18 months in advance. The labels get
17:18frustrated at times because they're getting pushed to get records done when to match the tours. So it can
17:25get frustrating. But it's something that we've all just gotten used to. I mean, there's nothing worse
17:29than not being able to put your tour together because the avails aren't there. So we're going to
17:34keep booking ahead as far as we can. But, you know, it's going to come with its challenges.
17:39I think it connects back to the conversation we were having a few minutes ago about tours that don't
17:42work. And, you know, with that pressure to book early, there sometimes comes the added pressure to
17:49keep that plan, even though that plan may not be right, based on the way things have unfolded with a
17:54schedule of music or whatever it might be. And people that are too, too hell bent on sticking
18:00to that plan when they should have been flexible and said, all right, things weren't ready. You
18:04know, let's push this thing back six months and try when, try when the time is right. And so that's
18:09the moment we've all got to be honest with each other and honest with our clients and, and be willing
18:13to make those moves, even if it runs against the booking, the venues we held a year ago.
18:20I think we really feel that pressure on the stadium level because there's so many more artists that
18:25can play stadiums where 10 years ago, there might have been three or four artists you're competing
18:30for holds with. Now you could have 15 shows a year at Fenway Park or Petco Park. So you really
18:36have to
18:37be ahead of it because there's only so many, so many windows you can play with sports. And so I
18:43see that
18:43that definitely is a problem on the stadium. I'm, I'm curious what Shireen said about labels kind of
18:49looking to you to help them with their plans going forward and kind of reverse engineering. Is anyone
18:55else seeing that as well? Yeah, I would echo that as well. I think, you know, the touring is a
19:02massive
19:02part of, of, of the marketing and the rollout of, of an album. And I think the two things are
19:07very
19:07symbiotic and going hand in hand and both elevate one another. Um, so I do, I do see that. Although
19:14on the flip side, there's nothing worse than pressuring an artist to get creative and make
19:18art under a deadline because of a tour. So it's, it's about achieving that balance between,
19:24you know, trying to set some goals and, and therefore allowing other people to set goals around
19:29that and then also remaining flexible to go on tour to sell records. Now you release records to sell
19:39concert tickets. So it's in the reverse. That's a, that's a big change. I think everyone on this
19:46panel would agree that ticket selling is still the number one barometer of an artist's success. I know
19:51we're all biased because of the space that we sit in, but it's been interesting. I've been seeing so many
19:55artists release music and release albums and it kind of comes and goes in a vacuum if there isn't
20:01a larger live strategy around it. Yeah. And we sort of mentioned some of, uh, how we've seen more
20:09tours kind of collapsing, um, or being canceled. Um, is this a, is this an impact of this having to
20:17book
20:17out so much further? I don't think so. I thought that was, um,
20:22um, that was a very situational time in, in the new cycle. I, I mean, those were unfortunate situations,
20:32but, um, I didn't think they warranted, uh, the attention that they got. Um, that was one artist
20:37who just maybe booked one too many legs. Um, that was a very successful artist and, and a couple other
20:44tours that just didn't work. So, um, I, I don't think we're doing anything. Um, I don't think the times,
20:51um, uh, have changed in the sense of, I think it's, it goes back to just having a strategy.
20:56Um, and it's all, it, it can all work. I don't see this as tours crumbling down
21:02because of any one particular thing. Uh, I think they're all very situational. I think it could be
21:06avoided if the team, you know, is in sync with each other with a strategy on how to move forward.
21:13And another thing I wanted to talk about, because we've seen a lot, I would say,
21:16you know, 2026, what we've seen a lot of is our residencies artists doing residencies. I'm curious,
21:23uh, you know, why are more artists choosing this model?
21:28I think the residency concept is really interesting. Um, I wouldn't say there's any
21:33one reason why artists are choosing it. I think artists choose it for a number of reasons. There
21:38are a lot of artists that, you know, being on the road is grueling, like day in, day out,
21:42being on a bus, you know, um, some of these artists have kids, families, and I think
21:48they're thinking, how do I bring my art to my fans in a way that is sustainable for me,
21:55that's healthy for me, mentally, physically, all of the above. Um, and so that can be a factor
22:01and a consideration, um, a way to perform that's healthy. Um, I think people, you know,
22:06some artists love to eventize. It makes it feel like a destination. It makes it feel like an
22:10experience. Like you go to a city to see the artists and it's very, it brings you and your
22:15fans in really close contact because you're experiencing that together. Um, sometimes
22:19there's economic reasons for it. It can be more cost effective to kind of just like post up in one
22:24venue. Um, sometimes it aligns with the, the statement that you're making about the music
22:29and, and wanting it to feel like you're, you're entering the artist's home and this is their home
22:34for the next month. So hard to say there's like any sweeping reason, but I think they're really
22:38interesting and, and, you know, um, probably going to see more of them.
22:42I think the Shireen's point earlier, right? The metric of success is how many tickets you can sell.
22:48And I think artists make statements for the residencies that are good for their brands.
22:52So when we had Billy Joel playing 104 months straight at Madison square garden,
22:57it's a guy who hadn't put out an album since 1993, but what a better barometer of success of
23:02this guy can sell 104 nights, the biggest arena, you know, at the most famous arena in the world.
23:08That's a statement. And I think what Harry just did doing 30, like had he just toured
23:12and blew out arenas everywhere that doesn't make the same statement as selling out 30 MSGs.
23:17I think in addition to what Christina said about the economic implications and,
23:22you know, the implications for an artist's wellbeing, there's also a creative driver there,
23:27right? I think artists can be a bit more ambitious in terms of the sets that they're building and the
23:32worlds that they're building. If they don't have to tear them down and build them back up again,
23:36time and time again. I think it's a great thing. You know, we saw it with Harry to Jared's point.
23:41We're doing it with Gracie Abrams, Four Nights at the Forum, Barclays in the O2.
23:46I think it builds community and builds like a collective understanding around the artist.
23:53Like you said, we've seen Harry, Shakira, Adele, we've seen all these artists do this. I'm curious if
24:00this is a model that works primarily for artists at the very top of their game, like in, you know,
24:07their career right now. Or is this something that we're going to start to see happen more often with
24:12kind of a middle tier or lower tier artists as well?
24:16I think it's determined on the, the depth of the connection between the artist and the fan. I think
24:22it's still impactful to do a residency across 10 dates at the Troubadour. It doesn't necessarily need
24:27to be at the stadium or arena level. I mean, we're even on those with smaller artists. We're very pro
24:35residency as a way to stand out and do something different for that artist. I think it's, uh,
24:43sometimes playing smaller venues, obviously brings you closer to the fans, creates the,
24:47the buzz and the vibe you want. I've, I've also, you know, heard reporting that
24:55local agencies or like local governments are excited to do these residencies because,
25:00you know, as you mentioned, it's not always about just the album or the artists, but about the
25:05community that they're in. I'm curious if you're seeing more government entities asking for these,
25:13being like, Hey, here's a pitch. You could do it in the city. It'll have this economic impact on
25:18everybody who lives here. I think, yes, I mean, we see it. Um, but I also think we have a
25:22responsibility
25:23to the artists for, and the artists want to do things that are authentic to who they are as
25:28people and their brands, you know, um, you know, bad bunny doing 31 shows in Puerto Rico last summer.
25:35You can't replicate that anywhere else. Right. And so it's great that other people will call and ask
25:40for that, but he's only going to do the thing that makes sense for him, just like any other artist
25:44is
25:44going to do the same for themselves. And that's not going to be probably not going to be just an
25:48economic decision. You know, the benefits that city that they're in, it's going to be something that
25:52benefits the artists, their message and what's culturally appropriate for them.
25:58Another big topic obviously is AI and I'm curious as agents, um, how is this impacting your job?
26:08Ooh, AI, I think, you know, I think it can be used as a tool and we're exploring different ways
26:15to use
26:16it as a tool. I mean, everyone, you know, people are like, Oh my God, can AI replace your job?
26:20Can it
26:21route your tour? Can it wait? I don't think so. Um, you know, AI just pulls from a certain data
26:26set that's available to it to make those decisions, but there's so many other decisions that go into,
26:31um, you know, the way that you route a tour and the reason why you choose a timeframe and venues
26:37and
26:37things like that. And a lot of that is just like not publicly available information such as other tours
26:42that are happening at that time or an album cycle and things like that. So I think it can help
26:46in sort of
26:47like more of an administrative, you know, streamline way. I mean, I remember I used to like print out
26:52contracts and put them next to each other and try to see if there was any difference on any line,
26:57you know, that had been changed between the contract I issued and the contract I got back.
27:02That's a tool. I think that that's the job that AI I think can have is kind of evaluating those
27:07two
27:08things against each other. But as far as the overall job and the 10,000 foot, I don't see it,
27:13um, impacting in the same way as some other industries. I agree with Christina. I think
27:19that it can be a supplemental tool, but it should not be solely relied on. I think we have the
27:24great
27:24privilege of being in a human industry and a social industry. And, you know, I think there's a certain
27:31nuance to understanding that your artists may need an extra day in Miami to visit their family. Or,
27:37you know, I don't, I haven't met a chat bot that knows what it feels like to drive 500 miles
27:42without
27:42a day off. Um, or that can kind of prioritize, you know, a shower in that club in Atlanta and
27:49what
27:49that does to an artist's wellbeing. Um, so yeah, I think, I think the human condition and the human
27:54element will need to stay intact.
27:57There was some information we received when we were trying to route an arena tour last year
28:02that it actually was telling us the probabilities of arenas clearing on certain dates based on
28:08previous schedules for the playoffs of the NBA and the NHL and the team's success. So like that was
28:15pretty, we were like kind of blown away by that. Now, obviously you can't predict a player injury that
28:20changes that, but that's not something a human could do, or at least not me.
28:26So it still comes down to, you know, one of the main things that I've always heard about being an
28:31agent is of course, you've got to get on the phone, you got to talk to people. And that's really
28:34a lot
28:35of the job is that human connection. And it just sounds like maybe AI is, uh, not the most useful
28:41for
28:42that. And I also think it's, you know, it's data, but it's also having taste and trusting in your
28:47instincts. And that's a really large majority of the job. And I think that there's a certain
28:52kind of like observational drive that comes from what we do. We're studying culture. We're studying
28:58what people are wearing and reading and consuming and helping shift the zeitgeist. And I, again,
29:04have not met a chat bot that can do that.
29:07Well, I mean, fundamentally what we do is that we trade in, in fans, emotional connection to our,
29:13to our client's music. Uh, and we, and we trade in that with relationships that we developed over
29:19decades with people on the other side of the equation in the business. And, and to Shireen's
29:25point, there's no chat bot that can replicate that emotional connection or that relationship.
29:29So yes, there are advantages to using AI marketing, production contracts, whatever it may be.
29:35But I think that the great part about what we're all doing for a living is that what happens on
29:39that
29:39stage and that connection between artists and fan cannot be replicated by anything that's not human.
29:47Another thing that I've come across a lot, and I'm sure anybody who's been to concerts this year
29:52has noticed is that there's tends to be a lack of, um, openers supporting acts. That seems to be
29:58something that's happening more and more. Uh, I'm curious if this is, if there's any sort of reason for
30:04that or if we're, if the, the job of an opener has changed. I think it's completely dependent
30:13on the artists that might be circumstantial. I think, you know, I do, I do think there's something
30:18magical to like an evening with, you know, especially with an artist that has a very specific body of
30:22work that they want to present and a specific production that they want to present. And it would
30:27just be a little bit too abstract to have another artist on that stage. Um, that's sometimes why
30:33we see it. Um, but I still see a lot of great, I also see a lot of great packages
30:37and a lot of great
30:38tours, you know, and I think artists still value eventizing the night and bringing out their friends
30:45and, and offering a multi-act bill. So, you know, it's totally case dependent why, why an artist may
30:51or may not bring out support. I think the support artist or the package that you build is the most
30:56important part of, of the tour. I think, I think a support act is becoming more valuable than ever.
31:02I think that, um, you want to create an event. You want to create a poster that people want to
31:07have. Uh, it's not just one name on it. It's a series of names, all your favorite bands. Um, you
31:13want
31:14to create an, an evening for people that are, uh, going out to see, I mean, with, with Weezer, my
31:21thinking
31:21was to build, uh, an evening that was, um, was kind of a night back in time. So in 24,
31:30it was Weezer flaming lips and dinosaur junior. And in 26, it was Weezer shins and silver, some pickups.
31:35So like, and, and that reacted well with, with the fan base. So I, I would prefer to have
31:42a package that creates, uh, an evening for the fans that's different than just the headliner play.
31:49Especially in these economic times when, you know, you really, if, as the ticket prices go up,
31:54back to one of our first topics here, it's just, you know, you want to make that ticket worth it
32:00for
32:00the fan to come and feel like they're getting, um, you know, everything that they paid for if they're
32:05spending that top dollar, you know? I think it also goes back to what we were talking about earlier with
32:11the, uh, the pipeline to the middle class and the developing artists, right? I think if we erode that
32:17pipeline, we're not taking care of the next generation of headliners. There's something to be
32:21said for Zara Larson supporting Tate McRae on 30 shows and getting her reps in and Gracie supporting
32:28Taylor Swift on 40 stadiums. And we're about to see it happen with Devin again and Olivia Rodrigo.
32:33You know, these are the tools we need to create the next generation. And if we're taking away that
32:38pipeline, we're really, really hurting the industry.
32:41I don't know if it's as intentional as it seems, but with the no support, like we have two arena
32:47headliners out right now that don't have it. That's because they're doing three plus hour shows.
32:52So there's no room, you know, it's not, it's not always, uh, oh, we're trying to cut costs by not
32:58having, that wasn't the impetus. Is that ever a concern? Like let's cut costs. And one of the things
33:05that goes is a support act. I find that's like kind of the last thing to be thought of when
33:11we're
33:11talking about cutting costs, when we're talking about the margins, it's a lot more around production
33:16and achieving an optimal routing and things like that. I tend to think that the, you know, cutting
33:22a support cost is sort of the last thing that we tool that we look at, you know, because I
33:29think
33:29everyone, if you want to have a support artist out, I think everyone understands the value of that and
33:33the value. And we're talking about artists spending millions of dollars on production
33:38to make a great show for their fans. Well, part of that is also support making a great night for
33:43their fans too. And then we have these three hour shows, which makes perfect sense to me because
33:49three hours plus the 30, 40 minutes, a opener goes on plus the break in between. That does seem like
33:57a
33:57lot. I imagine that's something that's being considered since we're seeing more shows going longer.
34:03It's hard to get to a venue at 530. Nobody should play for three hours.
34:11Preach, Robbie, preach. Speaking of, you know, packaging and having these support acts out,
34:21what are we looking for for our artists to have, whether you're booking the opening act or working
34:27with the main act? Like, who are we looking for to create these packages? Do they work better in
34:33certain genres or are we just looking for complementary artists?
34:37I think you're looking for distinct yet complementary audiences to create a really specific event and
34:44again, move culture forward. You know, we saw it with Charlie XCX and Troye Sivan on the Sweat
34:50tour. We're seeing it with Usher and Chris Brown. You know, we just had Fall Out Boy and Good Charlotte
34:57and the Offspring announced a stadium tour yesterday that I think will do very, very well.
35:05Well, that's a perfect way to end because you guys were so well behaved. Good job.
35:11That reputation is now gone. Robbie and I, we're going to fight, but I guess we don't have time
35:15now, so. Okay, perfect. Yeah. Lunchtime, the fight between you two out on the patio.
35:20Because we have different members. It's ticketed though, so.
35:23And prices are going up. Thank you so much to our agents panel. Everybody give them a hand.
35:32Right on.
35:32Right on.