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Willard and Dibs react to what Dallas Cowboys legend Troy Aikman said about 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan. What is Shanahan worth?
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00:00It'll come as no surprise, I think, to a lot of our audience, probably not to you either.
00:07I sort of see this one maybe a little bit differently than some, and I understand the dichotomy, the difference.
00:15And what we're talking about in this particular case is Kyle Shanahan.
00:19I don't know if you've heard. I'm kind of a fan. I'm a Shanahan.
00:25You're the president of Pakistan, and you might be the president of the Shanahan fan club, Shanahan fan club.
00:33I am a guy that likes to do multiple jobs.
00:35You do. You've got your hat in many rings, and let's not go back to the shows we did when
00:43we found out about his accident
00:44and how vehement you were about defending him, as you should be, but I think part of that is because
00:50you love the man.
00:51Well, I mean, defending him is kind of, for me, that's an odd way to look at a car accident.
00:57I think you actually, it sounded to me like what you were, and we don't need to go back to
01:02it,
01:02but you seemed to not trust the police department.
01:06Kyle didn't, what did Kyle do wrong? He got into a car accident.
01:09This is an outfalled accident, and as soon as it was said otherwise, he wanted to set the record straight.
01:15So I don't know, I guess my point is I don't know that he needed any defense in that process.
01:19Fair enough, okay. Right? I suppose.
01:22I mean, anyway, but Troy Aikman, 96.7, the ticket in Dallas, was asked,
01:30and obviously Aikman's probably not going to be doing Monday Night Football after this year
01:33with everything that's going on between him and Joe Buck. That's the implication.
01:37So I think the question kind of went out of like, hey, you want to maybe, I don't know,
01:42get into being an exec for a football team? And if you did, how would you go about building that?
01:50And listen to what he says.
01:51You know, I've been asked a lot of questions here over the, certainly here over the last several weeks
01:55about any aspirations that I may have of going in a front office and all of that,
02:00or who would you hire as your head coach?
02:02If I was in a position to hire someone as a head coach, I'd call the 40,
02:06I mean, the first call I'd make is to the 49ers and say, how much is it going to take
02:11to get Kyle Shanahan?
02:13Because I think he's that good. And yes, I've always believed this, but coaching matters.
02:21And it has an impact on an organization. And we've seen that in San Francisco.
02:26First call you'd make is to find out how he could get Kyle Shanahan out of San Francisco.
02:33And what would it take? So how would you answer that question? What would it take?
02:39Well, first of all, that's very flattering. And I do think that it's mostly probably the right thing to do.
02:45Andy Reid would be another guy on the short list, but he's quietly tiptoeing towards 70.
02:51And so I'm not sure how much he has left. Kyle is among the best coaches in football.
02:56And you could look at some of the other young guns, whether it's Liam Cohen in Jacksonville
03:00or Ben Johnson in Chicago and Mike McDaniel or Mike McDonald, rather, in Seattle, guys who've,
03:05you know, he's got already a pelt on the wall. And I think I'd be on the list as well,
03:09although I'm having a bad year. Honestly, if you want to go and get somebody who's doing it
03:14in so many different ways, yes, it's Shanahan. So you make the call.
03:18And if you're the Niners, you say, all right, what are you going to give us?
03:21He's under contract. And? Well, I'm thinking about the John Gruden trade, which is back in 2002,
03:28Tampa Bay really wanted John Gruden. And they sent two first round picks and two second round picks
03:34and eight million in cash, which in today's dollars would probably be 15 million.
03:40So if you're the Niners, would you take, and let me finish, Greg Cosell,
03:43would you take two firsts, two seconds, and 15 million for Shanahan?
03:48Two firsts, two seconds, and 15 million.
03:52In cash. Cold, hard, cash-y shh.
03:57You're the 49ers. 15 million is like you giving me $12.50, which you haven't done yet, by the way.
04:04Well, they just gave, well, we had a deal. We made a deal on the 12.50.
04:08What? That you were going to give it to me.
04:10Weren't we going to give it, you made a deal the other day off the air
04:13that I would give it to you at a certain juncture.
04:16Oh, yes, we did.
04:17So don't, don't spoil it.
04:19No, no, I won't.
04:20But you still haven't given it to me.
04:22You still haven't given me babysitting that I owe you,
04:25and I still haven't given you pizza that I owe you.
04:26Don't go there.
04:27I just did.
04:28So anyway, I'm just struck by the fact that 23 and a half years ago,
04:32almost 24 years ago, the Bucks traded for John Gruden,
04:36and it was two firsts, two seconds, and eight mil.
04:39So if you're the Niners, would you take that?
04:41Well, it's funny, too.
04:42Like, I mean, that sounds like so much.
04:45And then what happened the very next year?
04:49In what has got to be one of the most poetic moments in sports
04:53that I don't think people really give enough credit to,
04:57not only did he then go to Tampa and win the Super Bowl,
05:01he literally did it against the team that traded him.
05:05Wow.
05:06The Gruden Bowl, the Bucks and the Raiders,
05:09and all of the interceptions from Rich Gannon and all of that.
05:13Here's the issue with your offer.
05:16If I were, I guess this would be a Jed York conversation
05:21or somebody, whoever's kind of running the whole ship
05:25and the front office and everything,
05:28you said, would you take two firsts, two seconds, and $15 million?
05:35I don't feel qualified to answer the question, here's why.
05:39The phone would have already been hung up.
05:43That's rude.
05:45That's how I would handle it.
05:47I never even would have heard you say two firsts, two seconds, and $15 million.
05:54The second you say to the 49ers,
05:57I want to know what it would take to get Kyle Shanahan to leave click.
06:07If you don't hang up the phone, it goes, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
06:11I don't care what you want to offer.
06:15And I mean that.
06:17I'm not being hyperbolic.
06:20I, like, is it loyalty to a fault?
06:24Do you know what I mean?
06:25This is why Lovely Christy does not have anything to worry about ever.
06:31I have the most awesome wife in the world.
06:34Why would anything get my attention?
06:39I don't even understand the concept.
06:42If you have someone who you feel, and I know the Niners do, as do I,
06:48if you, as does Troy Aikman, apparently, if you have the best,
06:53well, then the conversation's over.
06:55That's not available.
06:56We're not talking about that here for anything.
07:01So I'm not taking the call, period.
07:04You've got to take the call.
07:05I don't.
07:05I mean, you don't have to.
07:07That's pretty close-minded, but I take the call,
07:10and I try to see if they can't sweeten the offer and stuff,
07:13because ultimately, Shanahan and his coaching tree, he's produced,
07:17and I know that he didn't produce various Kubiaks,
07:20but you've got one on your staff who might be ready to slide in.
07:23The OC in Seattle is a Shanahan guy.
07:26The head coach in Vegas is a Shanahan guy.
07:29So I would hope that maybe he is cultivated enough within the system
07:33to where if I get four top picks, two day ones and a couple of day twos
07:38and some cash, whatever, with the cash, it doesn't even matter.
07:42The Yorks are pretty swollen with money,
07:45but it's something that I think you'd have to listen to.
07:48Yeah, and I disagree.
07:49I think it's interesting that you think if someone has come from his tree
07:52that that means it's automatically him.
07:54You know what I mean?
07:55Like, I just don't think it works that way.
07:57Just because you've cultivated someone underneath you,
07:59maybe they know a few things about how you go about your business.
08:02That's great.
08:02That doesn't mean they're just going to go out there
08:05and be anywhere near as effective.
08:07That's just the way I kind of operate in the world.
08:09If I find something that's working at a really high level, I'm keeping it.
08:14Keeping it.
08:16And I'm not kidding.
08:19You can offer me 100 first-round picks.
08:21I don't want them.
08:23That's a lot.
08:24I know it's a lot.
08:25And obviously that's stupid because no conversation would even ever get there.
08:28But you can call me stupid all you want.
08:33That's how I view things that work at a really, really high level.
08:37If I've got control of something that's working at a really high level,
08:43and in fact my opinion is that it's working at the highest level in the industry,
08:49I don't even understand the concept of a trade.
08:53Like, no, that's an important position.
08:57Some could argue the most important position.
09:00I have who I think is the best.
09:02There ain't no way you're getting me to downgrade.
09:05There's nothing you can do to make me downgrade that spot,
09:10especially for draft picks, which are speculative.
09:15Everybody knows that those can be messed up.
09:17They can be, but, I mean, it's a boatload of picks,
09:20and those picks can turn into other players,
09:22and you can ultimately find a way to go from your head coach.
09:26And I agree with you that Kyle Shanahan is a great head coach.
09:29He's among the top whatever, one, two, three.
09:32I don't think you get past five in the top five of head coaches.
09:36Shanahan's in the top five.
09:37He's probably higher than that.
09:38It doesn't even really matter what that number is,
09:41but it is tempting to think about getting that level of draft capital.
09:45But the other side of it is you have to have the people there
09:48who can take those picks and turn them into actually good players.
09:53And I'm looking at the Raiders.
09:54They got Phillip Buchanan at number 17.
09:57He's a good player.
09:58He's a good player.
09:59Langston Walker.
10:00They got Tyler Brayton and a guy named Jake Grove, who was the center.
10:05So they didn't really get what they probably wanted.
10:08The other one is when I think Dallas traded Herschel Walker to Minnesota,
10:12and they basically got a dynasty.
10:14And so it just depends on how you go about taking what you get
10:19and making it a thing.
10:20I think my first response to that would be a great running back
10:23is way more replaceable than a great head coach.
10:27I think.
10:27Depends on who's out there and what you think about the other people
10:30who are available.
10:32Especially with the last name Shanahan.
10:34His dad made a living out of replacing running backs.
10:38Right.
10:38That's what he did.
10:39And that's what Kyle's done until he got Christian McCaffrey.
10:41Yeah.
10:42But I bet he'll replace him, too.
10:45I'm not saying with someone who's as dynamic as that,
10:48but they will run the ball.
10:51I mean, they like the young kid that they got this year.
10:54A lot.
10:55They like him.
10:55And we'll see how much they like him.
10:57If McCaffrey's gone and he's there, do they bring in another veteran?
11:00Or do they ride with him?
11:03I do think that there are enough people out there,
11:05especially in this day and age of analytics and offensive football
11:09and people who are doing things kind of like Kyle Shanahan.
11:13There's a lot more copycats out there.
11:14And I look at the two people I mentioned earlier,
11:17whether it's Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen,
11:19and they're able to take things from Kyle Shanahan
11:22and offensive ideas and apply them.
11:25So as much as Shanahan is elite, he's great.
11:28I do think there are other people out there who could do what he's doing.
11:31It's risky.
11:32I mean, there's other good coaches.
11:35You know, to say there's others out there who can do what he's doing,
11:38I like where your mind is, at least,
11:40because you just mentioned two people who are still new to this,
11:43and they haven't even gone on so much as a playoff run yet.
11:47The reason I like that is because I know that we're going to get –
11:50here comes the line of people that, you know,
11:53whoever hasn't won a Super Bowl.
11:55Great.
11:55Like, fine.
11:56Just tell on yourself.
11:57I'm saving that, but it's there.
11:58Well, hello.
11:59Like, but fine.
12:00Watch football.
12:01Watch football.
12:02Don't just show up at the end of the party and be like,
12:04did it work?
12:05Was it a good party?
12:06Watch the game.
12:08Why does Troy Aikman say that?
12:10Why does Joe Thomas come on this show
12:12and say he's the greatest coach he's ever had at any level
12:15in his entire Hall of Fame career?
12:17Why would people say that?
12:18If you want to gravy train this
12:20and make Kyle Shanahan's career solely about the last game,
12:23be my guest.
12:24I don't like to assess it that way,
12:26and I like the two coaches you just brought up.
12:29They're pups.
12:30They're really good.
12:31They're really good.
12:32Liam Cohen, Ben Johnson.
12:34I am bullish on their future big time,
12:37same as I am for Kyle,
12:38because I don't look at coaching and go,
12:41who's won a Super Bowl?
12:42Okay, cool, conversation over.
12:44Sean McVay has a Super Bowl.
12:46He's coached like an absolute moron this year.
12:50Let that sit there.
12:51He has coached like a complete moron this year,
12:55to the point where he's had to apologize
12:57about getting his best player hurt,
12:59to the point where he analytically sent his team
13:03to Australia a few hours before kickoff,
13:06and I could keep going.
13:08So why do I have to make it about who's won a Super Bowl?
13:12I think that's nuts.
13:13You don't, but there are other coaches in the league right now
13:16who are doing great things,
13:17like Todd Munkin right now is a guy
13:20who was kind of a laughingstock after a couple of weeks,
13:22and now he's got Cleveland in a great spot,
13:24and so he's somebody you could look at and say stock up,
13:28and Clint Kubiak in Vegas, we'll see,
13:31once he gets his quarterback and he gets his system.
13:33So I'm not saying that Shanahan is easily tradable,
13:36but if there's an offer out there,
13:38and this is a wild hypothetical based on Troy Aikman
13:41who's taking the reins in Dallas,
13:43and would Kyle even want to leave here to go to Dallas?
13:46Probably not.
13:46Hell no.
13:47Right.
13:48Work under Jerry Jones?
13:49It's a wild hypothetical,
13:51and I guess in theory he'd work under Troy Aikman,
13:53but Troy Aikman ultimately is answering to Jerry Jones,
13:56so yeah.
13:57Here it is.