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00:00:00 Good morning. With your TV6 News Update to the hour, I am Ranessa Cutting.
00:00:11 Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley has responded to Stand Your Ground proponents saying the
00:00:17 goal should not be to militarize TNT. The Prime Minister was speaking during conversations
00:00:23 with the Prime Minister on Saturday night.
00:00:25 It is not a society where if you defend yourself with your licensed firearm and protect your
00:00:30 family that you are likely to go and find yourself before the court for having defended
00:00:34 yourself. So what is this issue in a local government election that half of the campaign
00:00:40 of other people is about Stand Your Ground? Right now as I speak to you, there are 14
00:00:46 states in America that are trying to get rid of that law. Because in a plural society,
00:00:54 what it has done, it has created division and the use of that carte blanche force of
00:01:01 one against the other has had very, very bad outcomes.
00:01:07 In response, the opposition called on the Prime Minister to suggest a better alternative.
00:01:13 Mrs Kamala Pasabi says has put forward a policy initiative. What is yours? Are you satisfied
00:01:22 with the present state of home invasions and the status quo relating to that matter? Speak
00:01:28 up, Dr Rowley. Come out of your hiding and tell us an alternative policy that makes sense.
00:01:36 Clearly, you cannot rely on the status quo.
00:01:45 And now for a look at the weather forecast. Fair to partly cloudy conditions are expected
00:01:51 throughout the day, with some isolated light to moderate showers over broad areas. There
00:01:56 is a medium chance that some of these showers may become heavy and or thundery. Maximum
00:02:02 temperatures are coming in at 33 degrees Celsius in Trinidad and 32 degrees Celsius in Tobago.
00:02:16 The following is a paid political broadcast.
00:02:24 I'm a very great interest in what is happening and I want to commend you on your presentation.
00:02:28 And I think that this structure as it exists now in local government is inadequate. I do
00:02:32 agree with the proposal of the reform of the local government sector. Reform of the local
00:02:38 government system is a pathway towards fulfillment of the covenant between the government and
00:02:44 the people. Some of the core focal areas of local government reform should include structure
00:02:50 of local government, finance and taxes, human resource and productivity, legislative reform,
00:02:58 infrastructure and service delivery, community involvement, citizens participation, and also
00:03:05 importantly participation of women and youths, health and the environment, technology and
00:03:11 communication.
00:03:12 I'm very happy to hear you talk about the taxes and the fact that local government will
00:03:17 be allowed to retain taxes.
00:03:18 I must add, based on what I just mentioned, there's consensus across the political divide
00:03:25 for local government reform.
00:03:26 With respect to the tax collections, I believe it's a good idea. But I want to guarantee
00:03:32 you that anything that is good for this country and what I say here today, we will support
00:03:37 in the Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:03:39 You have to support your party. You say you support country before party, well go to hell.
00:03:44 Go to hell.
00:03:45 It's the right choice.
00:03:46 Local government reform is the right choice.
00:03:50 On August 14th, vote for local government reform.
00:03:53 Vote PNM.
00:03:56 That was a paid political broadcast.
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00:04:46 [Music]
00:05:11 Beyond the Tape, weekdays at 5.30 p.m.
00:05:15 [Music]
00:05:16 The biggest party in sport is back. CPL and WCPL return with more action than ever before.
00:05:25 Are you kidding me? Watch the biggest names in cricket battle it out in the race for glory.
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00:05:45 [Music]
00:06:04 And good morning Trinidad and Tobago and the rest of the world. I'm Marlon Hopkins and
00:06:07 welcome to the Morning Edition. It's Monday, 7th August 2023. I hope that you had a good
00:06:14 weekend. We did have some incidents over the weekend. You know one of the major, should
00:06:20 I say, events happening over the weekend, it did not happen here. It happened abroad
00:06:26 and it happened in Jamaica. And they celebrated their 61st anniversary as an independent nation.
00:06:36 Also, one of the significant developments coming out of that is that Marshall Montano
00:06:44 would have been given the key to Kingston, Jamaica. So it happened before thousands at
00:06:53 the stadium last evening. There was a gala event and during the celebrations this key
00:07:00 was given to Marshall Montano. So congratulations to Marshall Montano. But it also speaks about
00:07:08 our relationship with Jamaica and this concept of one Caribbean and the Caribbean as a whole.
00:07:19 So congratulations to all. Let's check out to see what's happening in the Daily Express
00:07:23 today. So the Prime Minister is on the Express this morning. Investigation terminated. Prime
00:07:30 Minister Dr. Keith Rowley fields a question from the audience during his conversation
00:07:34 with the Prime Minister event on Saturday night at La Jolla in St. Joseph. Integrity
00:07:39 Commission responds to opposition MPs' complaint about PM's Tobago townhouse. Rowley
00:07:44 in breach. Prime Minister did not disclose purchase. Did not knowingly provide false
00:07:50 information received a discount. All right. So we're moving on. We do have some sport
00:07:56 for you. New National Age Group record. Team TTO's Nikolai Blackman celebrates his gold
00:08:02 medal winning effort in the men's 200-meter freestyle yesterday at the National Aquatic
00:08:07 Center in Cuva during the Commonwealth Youth Games. Cayman Islands' James Allison left
00:08:13 secured silver while Australian Harvey Lark completed the podium backing bronze. So golden
00:08:20 Blackman. Nikolai strikes for TTO at CYG 2023. So some of the stories making the Express
00:08:28 for today. Yeah. So as we always tell you that you can send your videos to us. You can
00:08:36 send your photographs for us. We do appreciate that. What we can do at this time, we do have
00:08:42 a packed program for you today. We are going to begin the week discussing politics. Of
00:08:49 course, we are in the run up to the local government election. So we are going to a
00:08:53 very short break. We'll be right back. Stay right there.
00:09:21 The following is a paid political advertisement.
00:09:42 That was a paid political advertisement.
00:10:07 That was a paid political advertisement.
00:10:18 That was a paid political advertisement.
00:10:45 Dogs. Great companions. Terrible drivers.
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00:11:18 Universal Church presents programs of faith. 530 in the hour of miracles. 5pm. It's possible.
00:11:36 Now on TV six.
00:12:04 Welcome back everyone on this glorious Monday morning. Joining us now is political leader
00:12:10 of the movement for social justice, David Abdullah. Talk about the local government
00:12:14 election and the support from the joint trade union movement. Mr. Abdullah, thank you very
00:12:18 much for coming this morning. Good to be here. First time I've been on set since COVID. It's
00:12:25 good to interact. Always good to see you, Mr. Abdullah. Let's talk about the upcoming
00:12:32 local government election. Let's talk about your party, your party's involvement in the
00:12:38 election. How has it been thus far? We've been doing a very good campaign. We're only
00:12:43 in one area, as everybody knows, in Point 14. Yesterday we had a very strong showing
00:12:49 in Abotakane where we went through the three electoral districts that we are contesting.
00:12:53 We had our MSJ members and there was the president of the UNDP2, president of JTUB was there
00:12:59 together with a number of other trade union leaders. On Friday we had a very good walkabout
00:13:05 through the electoral districts as well. Not all, but touching some parts of each electoral
00:13:10 district. JTUB leaders were very much with us on Friday afternoon as well. So it is safe
00:13:15 to say that you are optimistic about the support that you're seeing? We are optimistic that
00:13:19 we are doing well, yes. Of course you never know until the last vote is counted on election
00:13:26 night. But the response has been good. People are generally unhappy about the state of the
00:13:32 country, but not just the state of the country, you know, but also about the inadequate, poor
00:13:38 representation that they're getting from their past councillors. And so I think people are
00:13:45 looking forward to good representation and that is our focus in this campaign. While
00:13:51 we do our spot meetings that I do address national issues, but our focus is on representation.
00:13:57 Our slogan actually is "We Represent Point" because we believe that the focus ought to
00:14:02 be on good representation at the local level so that burgesses, citizens can get the basic
00:14:09 amenities that they are entitled to. It's not a favour to get a drain or proper roads,
00:14:16 you know. And talk about roads, I mean if there were no elections, the road to point,
00:14:21 I mean I've been going down three, four times a week for the last month and you could tell
00:14:27 every time you go down which area was paved. And areas that have been paved are already
00:14:33 collapsing. Just in Vance River somebody put up a pole with bush in a hole which had been
00:14:40 paved a week ago. So you have been on the ground over the past, I suspect, weeks? Yeah?
00:14:47 I've been on the ground since nomination day, yes. So we're speaking about the roads. Other
00:14:54 than the roads, what are the other challenges that people in Point 14 are facing? Well certainly
00:15:00 community facilities and the absence of proper maintenance of community facilities or the
00:15:06 absence in some areas of community facilities. You know, I remember going, campaigning down
00:15:11 in Point many years ago, prior local government elections, and in Spring Trace, which is in
00:15:16 the electoral district of Hollywood, or Canada, there is Amber Water, there is a recreation
00:15:22 ground with a huge pavilion, but the ground is like half the size of a football field,
00:15:28 right? So you can't use the ground for anything, but there's a huge pavilion, a total waste
00:15:34 of money, and that was built years ago. So, you know, there's a disconnect between decision
00:15:41 making by, whether it is central government or the borough corporation in the case of
00:15:48 Point, and the needs of people in the community. We were in Reservoir Hill a week ago, not
00:15:56 Saturday, two Saturdays ago, and in front of a home and the family was pointing out
00:16:02 at the top of the hill, they built this drain right outside their home, and of course the
00:16:09 drain has no cover, so there's, you know, children could just fall, people could fall
00:16:14 in the drain, and the drain ends, you know, instead of being at the lower down in the
00:16:20 bottom of the hill, you know, so they built a drain of 25 feet and then it ends. That
00:16:26 kind of waste of resources is something that people are fed up of.
00:16:32 Yeah. So are the Burgesses in Point 14, are they buying into your message of better representation
00:16:42 and better amenities for Point 14? And I put it in the context that it is a borough that
00:16:52 has supported the government, the PNM, over the years. So how does a party which is relatively
00:17:01 small to the PNM, how do you maneuver in that sort of environment?
00:17:08 First of all, we've been in Point electorally since 2013. We contested 2013, '16, '19
00:17:15 local government elections, we contested general elections in 2020. So we know the community
00:17:21 and we have good candidates. It's important to have good candidates, especially for something
00:17:25 like local government elections. So the candidates are known. So as I work with the candidates,
00:17:30 Nigel Lazo-White in Tiché Guapo, you know, people know him because of his work, or Kester
00:17:37 Swan in New Village and Ambon Swan in Hollywood. So that they connect with the candidate and
00:17:45 they connect with what they know MSJ stands for, because they know that we have stood
00:17:51 up with people in Point, not now, you know, going back many years. For example, the hospital,
00:18:01 one of our key team leaders, Garnet Thompson, was one of the persons who agitated for the
00:18:08 hospital many, many moons ago, you know, the issue of defending workers and representing
00:18:15 workers. Garnet Thompson, myself, others were involved in representing workers in the construction
00:18:20 of Atlantic LNG, representing workers in Trinma. So Ronald Garcia was involved in OAS, representing
00:18:29 workers. So people know that we actually have a record of representing people, defending
00:18:36 people, working with people on the ground, fighting for justice, and that is important,
00:18:42 I think. So you believe that there is a base and there has been a long-standing connection
00:18:48 with Labour and Point Squadron? And Labour and generally, and with the MSJ, specifically
00:18:55 in terms of our contesting elections in Point. And our candidates are known as community
00:19:02 people, Kester Swan is known as somebody who has done social work in his community and
00:19:07 so on. Those things are important. Those things are important. Now, when the local government
00:19:13 election was announced, shortly following after, the opposition made a call for other
00:19:20 political parties to join the UNC in the election. It was expected that the MSJ, because of its
00:19:29 past relationship with the UNC, the People's Partnership, would have been a part of that
00:19:34 accommodation, as it were. Well, I don't know who was expecting that. Yes. Maybe you know
00:19:40 something that I don't know, in terms of expectations. Nobody reached out to us in the first place.
00:19:45 Nobody spoke to us. There was no conversation. So there was never a question for us to answer,
00:19:51 because nobody, you're not going to respond to something said on a public platform. People
00:19:55 make all kinds of statements on public platforms, a lot of which you have to ignore. So there
00:20:00 was never any approach to us, and therefore there was never anything for us to discuss.
00:20:05 But had it come to us, our position would have been the same. No, we are not going to
00:20:09 engage in electoral alliance with the UNC or with anybody else. We did have a conversation
00:20:15 with Davika Thomas of the United Farmers, because we'd been doing some work with her
00:20:22 as an NGO group that she had, a farmers group that she had. But our position is that you
00:20:30 can't engage just before an election when you're not clear about policies, principles,
00:20:37 and so on. And so that went nowhere. And of course, as I said, we were not going to engage
00:20:45 with the UNC. Mr. Griffiths has gone with the UNC, so you can't associate with him
00:20:53 or his party, because he's really UNC. And in fact, we are contesting against, therefore,
00:20:59 the PNM, the UNC/NTA, because NTA has five candidates and the UNC has one in point, and
00:21:06 PEP. So we are contesting against all of them in point. We are standing alone and we are
00:21:11 standing on what we believe in. As I said at the party launch, I think it was Alexander
00:21:17 Hamilton, who was one of the founding fathers of the United States, who was born actually
00:21:22 in the Caribbean, I think in the island of Nevis. But he made the statement that if you
00:21:27 don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. And we in the MSJ believe that we
00:21:32 stand for something. We stand for social justice. It's in our DNA. And therefore, you can't
00:21:38 just fall for anything that sounds good or may look good, but really, when you examine
00:21:45 it, isn't good at all. Yeah. Has the MSJ been in a sort of rebuilding stage and phase over
00:21:52 the years? Because there is a perception out there that its past relationship with the
00:21:58 UNC would have, I don't want to say tarnished its image, I think that would be too strong,
00:22:07 but because of what transpired in the arrangement, in the accommodation with the UNC, there had
00:22:18 to be some rebuilding. Well, no, not really, because when we joined the People's Partnership
00:22:25 in 2010, we had not yet formed the party. Our party actually was founded in 2011, but
00:22:31 we had registered the party. We had a core of people, activists and so on, but given
00:22:36 that Mr. Manning called the election early, we decided that we would proceed and engage,
00:22:41 because we were having conversations, particularly with elements of the COP, and so we decided
00:22:48 to engage in the partnership. So when we left the partnership, that actually gave us a big
00:22:55 bump, because people said, "Okay, these are people who will stand on principle, will give
00:23:01 up government office and so on, in order to pursue an independent path to create a different
00:23:08 type of politics and a better society for everybody in Trinidad and Tobago." So that
00:23:12 actually worked for us in that sense. I mean, it wasn't planned that way, but it worked
00:23:16 for us in that sense. Now, in 2019, for example, we expanded quite significantly and we contested
00:23:24 about 30 seats in the local government elections. We had four or five candidates in Diego Martin,
00:23:28 five or six in Samuel Lamentil, five or six in San Fernando, in Siparia and in Point and
00:23:33 so on. But COVID came in early 2020, and of course in general elections. So those things
00:23:41 made it more difficult for us to consolidate at that time. Coming out of this local government
00:23:46 elections, though, we are going to be expanding our activity. We took a strategic decision
00:23:51 only to contest Point 14 in this local, simply to conserve limited resources, because one
00:23:59 of the issues is party financing. And while people talk about public procurement legislation
00:24:05 and a lot of fuss was being made the other day, rightly about it, there's been silence
00:24:10 by most people in the country about party financing. There is a draft piece of legislation
00:24:15 before the parliament, it's been there for three years, stuck in a joint select committee
00:24:19 and we've repeatedly called on the joint select committee to finish its work. We submitted
00:24:25 a major memorandum in early 2021 to the joint select committee. We have never met with them.
00:24:32 But that is a key issue to level the playing field of the politics. You need to deal with
00:24:37 the issue of financing, because you have those who have one party card called PIP, party
00:24:43 in power. They finance both parties and whichever way the thing flips, their business is fixed
00:24:51 and that has to be changed in Trinidad and Tobago.
00:24:54 How is this support with the trade union movement being split? Because of course you have the
00:25:01 trade union movement coming out in support of the UNC for the election, but also saying...
00:25:06 No, I know that. The trade union movement didn't come out in support. One branch of
00:25:10 the ODWQ came out in support. Yes, there was a speaker at one of the UNC's political meetings.
00:25:16 The president point of their branch, right? So he doesn't speak for the entire union?
00:25:21 No, he can't. He speaks for his branch, but he doesn't speak for the entire union. In
00:25:25 fact, the president general is the person who speaks for the union. And he made a very
00:25:30 clear statement on Friday saying that the union's official position and that of the
00:25:35 J-Tubb is to support the MSJ's candidates in Point 40.
00:25:38 And how does that work?
00:25:40 Well, there will be conversation. Well, they were present physically in Newark. You had
00:25:43 the president, Mr. Roger was there on Friday and a number of executive members of the ODWQ
00:25:48 with him. The first vice president was there. The general secretary was present and another
00:25:53 vice president was there and so on. You also had the secretary general of the postal workers
00:25:58 union, David Forbes, the president, Sheldon Trim, the president of the sanitation workers
00:26:04 union, Robert Menacia, and there was the deputy general secretary of J-Tubb, Trevor Johnson,
00:26:11 all of whom you have interviewed.
00:26:13 Of course, yes.
00:26:14 And others were present with us on Friday in the walkabout. And yesterday, as I said,
00:26:23 Mr. Roger was also with us together with most members, all the top members of his executive
00:26:27 were present with us in the motorcade yesterday. And there were some other trade union leaders
00:26:32 with us. So the support is there and there are going to be some major discussions after
00:26:36 the elections going forward with respect to that.
00:26:40 I know that as a political leader of the MSJ that you have been paying attention, you have
00:26:46 been monitoring what is being said on certain platforms. You believe that the message of
00:26:52 local government is getting out there and the issues are being discussed because over
00:26:57 the past few days, one of the main issues that has been clouding a lot of things is
00:27:03 this stand your ground proposed legislation by the United National Congress, some of the
00:27:09 statements of the opposition leader, and crime. While crime is a very serious issue, but do
00:27:18 you feel that the message of local government and providing a service to the communities
00:27:26 that message is getting out there?
00:27:29 Not necessarily. I think the focus has been on national issues and not unsurprisingly
00:27:35 because of the fact that there is a general election that is two years away constitutionally.
00:27:40 It could be held any time between now and then. But quite obviously, a number of parties
00:27:46 are trying to use this as a stepping stone to the general elections so that if they can,
00:27:54 in the case of the UNC, if they can do better than they did in 2019, then that puts them
00:28:00 in a better position for the next general elections. Similarly, the PNM has to defend
00:28:04 its position and others are trying to position themselves. And so, other political parties
00:28:11 are making statements, leaders in particular, making sensational statements. They are dog
00:28:18 whistles to activate the base, which are racial dog whistles, let's be quite clear about that.
00:28:25 And they're making sensational statements, as sensational as they can be. And the Council
00:28:31 of Responsible Political Behavior has called out the leaders of most of the main parties,
00:28:36 the parliamentary parties, let me call them parliamentary parties, for making statements
00:28:40 that are inappropriate. And that is because they are trying to whip their base up in order
00:28:47 to position themselves for the general elections. That is what is happening. I had a press conference
00:28:53 the other day and I referred to that type of activity and saying that that is really
00:29:01 the theater of the absurd. It is politics, not politics, not serious politics. And so,
00:29:10 citizens have to see through a lot of that. Many are, obviously many won't, because they
00:29:19 will simply go with the party line. But ultimately, if we want to break free of that kind of politics,
00:29:26 we need what I call a revolution of the mind, where we can get out of the ethnic politics
00:29:33 and to critically assess what people are saying. If you hear that phrase that was used by Mrs.
00:29:42 Persaud, the sessor, the light them up phrase, it's very similar in cadence to Donald Trump's
00:29:51 "lock her up," actual cadence of that phrase. And we have to look at those things and say,
00:30:00 what is taking place in the politics? Is that serious politics? Is that about dealing with
00:30:08 the social crisis of crime and violence in our society? To deal with reforming the education
00:30:14 system so that we don't have as we had when SCA results came out a few weeks ago, 48%
00:30:21 of the children failing SCA. When CSEC results come out in a week's time or two weeks' time,
00:30:26 we will see that 40% will not get five subjects with maths and English. So our education system
00:30:32 is creating generations. This will be going on now, Marlon, for 30, 40 years.
00:30:38 Mr. Abdullah, we're just about one minute again. We're seven days away, really, from the election.
00:30:44 Yes, and I simply will say to the Burgesses at Point 14 that you have three excellent
00:30:51 persons whom you could trust to represent you properly, who will listen to you, work
00:30:56 with you, and address the concerns of your community, who will not be distant after the
00:31:03 elections, that you can't reach them and you don't see them again. Our MSJA candidates,
00:31:07 our culture of representation, Amber Watney in Hollywood, Kester Swan in New Village,
00:31:13 Nigel White in T. Shea Guapo, they will represent you because we represent Point.
00:31:19 Yes, Mr. Abdullah, it's always a pleasure speaking with you. We wish you all the best
00:31:22 for the election, right?
00:31:23 Thank you very much, Marlon. Great to be here. And I was just going to say that Nicole, yourself,
00:31:28 myself, all were once at another location.
00:31:31 At a radio station.
00:31:32 Radio station.
00:31:33 Not a political party.
00:31:34 A radio station. But I freelance, you all have free time.
00:31:37 Yes, yes, yes. So it's always good to see you. Thank you very much for coming.
00:31:40 All right, so we are going to a very short break, but we have this image for you from
00:31:44 a former government minister. You all remember Therese Batiste Cornell, where she sent this
00:31:49 for us. Good morning, former minister. We're coming back.
00:31:54 [Music]
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00:32:30 Since 1964, dance has been a major part of the Best Village experience, with raw talent
00:32:36 trained in community drum yards, taking the stage to perform the limbo, shango, and ballet.
00:32:42 As the event grew into what became known as the folk concert, East Indian traditional
00:32:47 dances like the dandiya and khata, as well as musical and dramatic segments, took on
00:32:52 important roles. By 1989, a major shift happened with the program, as the separate music, dance,
00:32:59 and drama sections were merged in favor of having full productions incorporating all
00:33:04 three folk elements. Performers had now entered the realm of musical play, and the folk theater
00:33:10 competition was born. As this highly anticipated and supported aspect of the prime minister's
00:33:15 Best Village Trophy competition continues in the 60th year, we look forward to even
00:33:20 more innovation and creativity from community performers, and a further evolution of the
00:33:25 competition.
00:33:26 Inspiration through song makes our souls rejoice.
00:33:35 Inspiration through dance is fueled by inspiration.
00:33:46 Inspiration is found in the diversity of nature.
00:33:52 Inspired word of God, direct from the past.
00:33:57 Join us every Monday morning at 8.30am, right here on TV6 for our many moments of inspiration.
00:34:05 So you have big plans for the year, eh? A trip in July, birthday in November, and fet
00:34:12 after fet this carnival. But you know what'll stop plans? A $22,500 fine. You know what
00:34:22 else could really stop your plans? Five years imprisonment and suspension on your license
00:34:29 for three years. Don't drink and drive.
00:34:34 Alright, so welcome back. You do have some evergreen songs, eh? I remember as a child
00:34:53 hearing this song. I have to do some research and find out how long ago this song was done.
00:35:00 So, major political developments in the run-up to the local government election. One of them
00:35:05 is the ongoing debate over "Stand Your Ground" legislation touted by the opposition United
00:35:09 National Congress. We're now joined by political analyst Dr. Mukesh Basdeo. Doctor, good morning.
00:35:16 Hi, good morning, Mahalan. Good morning to all of our viewers and listeners.
00:35:20 I was now saying to Dr. Basdeo, we have him working overtime these days because of what
00:35:25 is happening almost by the second, by the minute, by the day concerning this local government
00:35:31 election. Doctor, as you look, because I think we would have spoken about maybe a week ago,
00:35:36 over a week ago, as you look at the developments that have occurred since then, what are your
00:35:42 impressions?
00:35:44 Well, what we have seen in the political landscape, you know, the six days, we can say approximately
00:35:50 six days, if not counting today, before the population and the voters in Trinidad actually
00:35:56 go to the polls and vote in a local government election. What we have seen in the last, over
00:36:01 the last week, that the issue, the policy issue, the social problem of crime has basically
00:36:08 escalated to the point of where both the opposition and the government are dealing with this issue.
00:36:17 And both sides are using different campaign strategies to bring across their message at
00:36:23 the rate of this policy issue, whether it is about a lack of policy initiative or failure
00:36:29 to deal with this particular, some would say social and economic problem that has been
00:36:35 with us for more than three decades, with few governments since, let's say, 2000 have
00:36:43 been able to actually deal with this issue of the crime scourge.
00:36:49 Yeah. So, let me pose this question to you as I posed it to Mr. Abdullah a short while
00:36:55 ago. Do you think really the focus has been on the local government election, educating
00:37:05 people out there about local government election, local government reform, what does local government
00:37:11 election, what does local government do, or do you think that this has really taken on
00:37:18 a sort of general election type atmosphere? Well, I think this question you had asked
00:37:26 me a week ago. Yes. My answer was that what we have seen is that little is being said
00:37:32 on what we call local government by both of the political parties, if not all, that are
00:37:38 reported in the media. But what has been occupying the attention is what we consider to be national
00:37:46 issues, issues that are on the front burner. And one has to understand that this, the results
00:37:54 of this local government election is going to set the political foundation upon which
00:38:00 the general elections are going to be for in approximately two years' time. It is issues
00:38:06 that can be dealt at both national central government, parliamentary and also at the
00:38:13 local government and their councils. So what we have seen is that the issues according
00:38:18 to, if we go back to looking at the ruling by the Privy Council, which would have pushed
00:38:26 the government to the Prime Minister and set a date for the local government election.
00:38:33 That issue of local government reform, although it has been put onto the, let's say, into
00:38:40 the discussion, it comes about when you have these, the so-called candidates for the various
00:38:46 political parties that on the platform will announce what is their intention. But if you're
00:38:53 trying to get into a general discussion into what the local government reform bill was
00:38:59 about and what is the intent of the bill and what will the new local government councils,
00:39:07 what are they going to deliver, what is the difference, what are we going to see in relation
00:39:12 to the life of, let's say, the religious and also the population within these 14 regional
00:39:17 bodies in Trinidad and Tobago. What will be the relevance of the upbringing of the status
00:39:22 of the Sicario Regional Corporation to our borough, similarly with the Dikomatin Regional
00:39:27 Corporation to borough status. What will that mean to the livelihood of persons living in
00:39:33 these, what we call, in these geographical spaces. And therefore, we're not hearing that
00:39:41 much, but what we are hearing about is this perennial problems that have been plaguing
00:39:47 the country for, I would say, decades. And that's when we come back to the discussion
00:39:52 on the central issue, which is crime, which is being considered to be an issue that can
00:39:58 occupy both the local space and what we call the national space.
00:40:03 Yeah. Let's speak a little bit about the statements of the opposition leader over the past week
00:40:10 or so. It is being viewed in certain quarters as inflammatory statements. Of course, some
00:40:19 persons within her party have defended the statements of the opposition leader. But how
00:40:26 do you view, or do you have a position at all on what has transpired with the opposition
00:40:32 leader, her comments over the past few days?
00:40:35 I heard the statement by the opposition leader, the use of certain, let's say, words to convey
00:40:44 a political message. I've also listened to the Prime Minister and his statements in his
00:40:50 speech at the PNM meeting on Saturday. And what I can sense and I can gather from both
00:40:58 political leaders is that the Prime Minister referred to it as, you know, he recognized
00:41:03 that it's a subculture. It is part of the subculture of the culture of Trinidad and
00:41:10 Tobago. And the opposition leader, in making the statement, restating it back on last Monday,
00:41:17 she said it in the context, it is words that are used by a generation that we have to recognize
00:41:24 that they have a part to play and they must understand what this younger generation has
00:41:29 to say relating to, let's say, public policy. So, whether the opposition leader was directing
00:41:36 her message to a particular, let's say, voter bank, within a, let's say, the voters between
00:41:43 age 18 to, let's say, age 28 in that context, because a lot of them, let's say, the population
00:41:51 may have been maybe taken aback by the use of the words. But then in her explanation
00:41:58 last Monday, she referred to it as going back to the genre of music in our culture called
00:42:05 Trinidad music. And it's in that context. And the Prime Minister did also make reference
00:42:11 to it as a subculture, but does not condone the type of words and language that comes
00:42:17 out of that type of music. So, both leaders addressed it in the context that it is part
00:42:23 and parcel of the culture of Trinidad and Tobago, whether how we want to, the opposition
00:42:30 leader tends to use it in the context to convey the standard wrong policy, whereas the Prime
00:42:37 Minister is, in his statement on Saturday, and I looked at it in the context, it is part
00:42:43 of our subculture, but he may not always ascribe to some of the, let's say, the values that
00:42:49 comes out of the music and the language itself.
00:42:53 Have those statements hurt at all the UNC?
00:42:58 The question is whether or not it has hurt the UNC. What we've been seeing is that, on
00:43:05 social media and posting, we can only be able to determine whether or not it has benefited
00:43:12 the UNC or it has hurt the UNC in six days' time. When it goes to the poll, whether or
00:43:20 not you're going to see, is there a higher turnout of, let's say, voters in the age group
00:43:26 that I have identified, 18 to, let's say, 28, whether we are going to see those persons
00:43:33 coming out to vote. Primarily when you think about the local government election, you talk
00:43:37 about the base of the party coming out, you tend to find persons, maybe persons 30 to
00:43:45 40 years and older, may be much more prone within the core of the party to actually vote.
00:43:51 If we tend to see that there is this semblance of the younger voters coming out, then the
00:43:57 message that the opposition leader would have used could have triggered some sort of awareness
00:44:05 that the younger voters have a part to play and a value to play in the future of Trinidad
00:44:13 and Tobago. So it needs to be tested and it will be tested next week.
00:44:19 Yeah. What about the response of the electorate? Do you think that we are going to see a high
00:44:27 voter turnout? Judging from what you are seeing right now at the political meetings and so
00:44:33 on, you feel that the electorate is very much interested in the local government election?
00:44:41 I'm thinking that in the context of the issues that have been discussed. Primarily look at
00:44:46 the opposition leader holding on to crime as a key policy issue for her own party and
00:44:55 the future of her own political party. Crime is an issue that we have come to see and it
00:45:01 has affected every single individual. It has affected us in one way or another. It has
00:45:06 forced business and even the social sector to adjust how you conduct your affairs and
00:45:13 how you conduct your personal life. So it is something that goes at the root of our
00:45:19 society. Whether or not the population will see it or the voters will see it is something
00:45:25 that they need to send a message because at the end of the day, the results on Monday
00:45:31 night have an effect on the local government councils themselves. It may not change the
00:45:37 composition of the parliament, it may not force the primary and secondary election,
00:45:43 but it will send what we call a political message that something has to be done. So
00:45:49 if it is the voters are basically attracted to the idea, it will be determined it can
00:45:57 see a change in public policy in the weeks and months to come. And interestingly when
00:46:02 you look at the election which will be held next week, Monday, how the result will go
00:46:09 will be reflected I think in a month and a month and a half time when the government
00:46:16 brings its annual budget to parliament. If the result goes in favour of the UNC, we can
00:46:23 see certain changes because then the government would have gotten a clear political message
00:46:29 that the population is not satisfied, is not comfortable the way things are done, especially
00:46:35 on the issue of crime. And they would have to change their methodology of how they move
00:46:41 forward. It will signal to the government that the election may not be due until September
00:46:47 of '25, so they have approximately two years to formulate and implement their policies.
00:46:53 So time is on their side. But as important it will basically on the opposition bench,
00:47:00 it will basically give them the, let's say the fillip that is required to continue the
00:47:05 political push to force the government in to come into terms with certain let's say
00:47:10 policy failures.
00:47:11 Yeah. So doctor, I think it is safe to say that whichever party wins or whichever party
00:47:22 loses, there are going to be political, how do I say, there are going to be political
00:47:31 repercussions for each political party. And it could even, I suspect the repercussions
00:47:39 can even reach the leadership of each political leader of the major political parties.
00:47:48 And I view it in that context that the results of next Monday does have certain impact on
00:47:58 the leadership of both political parties. If we say hypothetically the opposition is
00:48:06 to let's say to increase its seats in the various corporations, even go as far as to
00:48:12 let's say capture another corporation, one of the likely impact I can sense on the part
00:48:18 of the government, which is hypothetically I'm saying here, we can see a cabinet reshuffle
00:48:24 because it's what the prime minister want to convey that the voters have spoken and
00:48:30 he may be attempting to engage in a cabinet reshuffle. If it is that the status quo is
00:48:36 maintained and there's no significant changes in let's say the seat count between the
00:48:41 two major political parties, then it can give the prime minister an ease of comfort that
00:48:48 the voters are somewhat satisfied with the way the government has handled the affairs.
00:48:53 But the results of next Monday also has the impact on the smaller parties, the NTA, the
00:49:02 others, these political parties, MSJ, these political parties, their political future
00:49:07 also is tied to this local government election because the results of next Monday is going
00:49:13 to determine whether or not we have come closer, we have closed the gap and that we have become
00:49:20 truly a two-party state, a governing party and an opposing party. And is there really
00:49:28 room for the political parties? It is really going to send a signal whether or not the
00:49:36 attempted, let's say, coalition or accommodation between the NTA and the UNC, did it bring
00:49:43 any value. So a lot is basically riding on the results of next Monday's results. Although
00:49:51 it can say that the results, the voters are usually between 40 to 50 percent. Either way,
00:49:59 it will have what we call a telling arm. The numbers of that will be able to tell what
00:50:04 will be the near future of the politics centred around Topeka.
00:50:08 Dr Mukesh Basde, it's always a pleasure speaking with you, sir. Thank you very much for getting
00:50:13 up early in the morning and taking our calls when we do call you. So we do appreciate your
00:50:19 contribution to the program, sir. Thank you very much again.
00:50:22 Thank you so much.
00:50:24 All right. So it's time for a quick break. We do have an update for you from Debi. Yes,
00:50:30 sleepy Debi this morning. We're coming back.
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00:52:27 [Music]
00:52:51 A prime time address from the heartland with KPB Plus. Tonight at 8 on TV6.
00:52:58 [Music]
00:53:24 [Music]
00:53:35 [Music]
00:54:04 And welcome back everyone. So here's this interesting story. You see sometimes we do
00:54:10 things over and over in Trinidad and Tobago and not thinking. I wonder what is happening
00:54:14 in other parts of the world. So here's this. Oregon lifts self-serve ban. Drivers must
00:54:21 now pump own gas. This is a very interesting story. Now something that we do every day,
00:54:27 right? So for the first time in 72 years, Oregon motorists can grab a fuel nozzle and
00:54:35 pump gas into their own cars on their own, right? Since a decades old ban on self-serve
00:54:41 gas stations has been revoked. Governor Tina Kotak signed a bill on Friday allowing people
00:54:48 across the state to choose between having an attendant pump gas or doing it themselves.
00:54:54 The law takes immediate effect. That leaves New Jersey as the only state that prohibits
00:55:00 motorists from pumping their own gas. A few countries also ban it including South Africa
00:55:07 where attendants offer to check fluid levels and clean the windshield with tipping expected.
00:55:15 All right. Very, very interesting. So we are talking World Steel Ban Month now. And
00:55:23 joining us are Reginald Vidal, Chairman, National Steel Ban Heroes Hall of Fame Foundation.
00:55:30 Mr. Vidal, good morning. Very good morning to you and greetings. And thank you for having
00:55:36 me on your program. Yes. Greetings to you too, Mr. Vidal. Mr. Vidal, well, let's speak
00:55:41 a little bit about World Steel Ban Month. What is being planned? Well, first of all,
00:55:48 let me congratulate the Pantrin-Bagel and the steel ban movement in general on the occasion
00:55:56 of Steel Ban Month. And also to congratulate the movement on the attainment of Steel Pan
00:56:05 Day which is going to be launched on Friday of this week. So I start with congratulatory
00:56:12 messages to the main organization and the steel ban movement in general. Mr. Vidal,
00:56:21 what is your foundation's involvement in all of this? Let's simply put, this year marks
00:56:31 the second anniversary or the second installment of our Hall of Fame induction and award ceremony
00:56:40 which takes place on Independence Evening, the 31st of August at the Central Bank Auditorium
00:56:47 in Port-au-Prince, Spain. At that ceremony or that awards function, we will be inducting
00:56:54 several steel ban heroes and pioneers of the movement into the Hall of Fame which is the
00:57:03 first of its kind in the steel ban world that is a Hall of Fame recognizing the contributions
00:57:11 of the various steel ban pioneers over the years. So that will take place as part of
00:57:17 Steel Ban Month and also to bring to an end Steel Ban Month on Independence Evening at
00:57:25 the Central Bank Auditorium. Mr. Vidal, you care to say who the awardees are this year?
00:57:32 Well, some of the awardees, actually we are keeping that as a surprise but I can tell
00:57:39 you who were some of the, who were the inductees into the Hall of Fame last year. You had people
00:57:47 like Junior Pouchette, Ursula Tudor from Desperados, the longest serving female tenor player, then
00:57:54 there was Vernon "Birdie" Manette of Invaders, Patrick Arnold, Eddie Hart, Dr. Roy Cape,
00:58:03 Anthony Williams, Lawford Dupre, those were the inductees last year into the Hall of Fame
00:58:11 and this year there are some notable steel ban pioneers but I would care to keep that
00:58:18 in my heart as a surprise. Close to your chest? Well, close to my chest possibly, yes.
00:58:25 But how many awardees this year? We are having 15 this year as we had last year and of course
00:58:33 every year we would want to have an additional 15 or possibly more. You know, all these things
00:58:41 around the budget and affordability of, you know, adding additional awardees to the ceremony.
00:58:50 Let's talk a little bit about the rationale for these awards. What is it meant to do,
00:58:57 Mr. Bidal? Well, the thing is the rationale behind these awards and it is not so much
00:59:05 the awards than it is the induction into the Hall of Fame. Now, my rationale with that
00:59:13 is that when you receive an award, you receive it, well, certainly in an audience that would
00:59:20 see you receiving the award, you take the award home, it becomes your personal property.
00:59:26 Is it that you're going to have people coming into your home every minute to have a look
00:59:31 at that award? No. So the Hall of Fame is where you would put the bios of the various
00:59:41 awardees and they would be housed in a place where people can visit and read the bios and,
00:59:51 you know, see those who were inducted into the Hall of Fame over the years. So that the
00:59:56 Hall of Fame really is the main part of it where you are going to be placed in a place
01:00:03 where people can view you and see you and, of course, see pictures of you. And you would
01:00:10 have the bios where they could read and see, well, okay, this person was so involved in
01:00:16 the state band movement, this person was the first female tenor pan player who played for
01:00:22 Desperados, you would see Vernon Manet and his contribution to Invader Steel Orchestra
01:00:29 and likewise Junior Pouchette, his contribution to Silver Stars. And this is where the new
01:00:36 concept in the steel band movement has come about and that is having the introduction
01:00:42 of the Hall of Fame, more than just receiving an award and a citation.
01:00:47 So we are speaking about a physical Hall of Fame. So it is something that is being worked
01:00:54 upon or is there a Hall of Fame already?
01:00:58 Well, it is being worked upon. We have asked the Minister, the Ministry of Culture and
01:01:06 the Arts to allow us the use of the museum which is on Sound Quay. You know, there has
01:01:15 been some advances towards that in that we have reached a stumbling block. Even though
01:01:23 it has been somewhat promised us in principle, it is not ready structurally to accommodate
01:01:31 the influx of people into that building. So it is being looked at in terms of having it
01:01:38 renovated so that we can use it as the house of the Hall of Fame.
01:01:46 In its absence, what we are using this year, we are using the Central Bank, an area in
01:01:54 the Central Bank where we will have on display those awardees of last year that can be viewed
01:02:01 by those who will be attending this year. They will see those who received last year
01:02:08 and quite possibly, if it is possible, we might put some of those who are going to receive
01:02:13 this year. So that is the intention, a permanent home so that the heroes of the Hall of Fame
01:02:22 can be placed.
01:02:24 So I get the feeling that the wheels have begun turning, but has there been any discussion
01:02:33 as to when we as a country can experience, can go to the Steel Pan Hall of Fame? Is it
01:02:42 in two years, three years, five years?
01:02:46 Well, that is a very nice question. I would hope within a year, year and a half, that
01:02:52 we can have that home for the Hall of Fame where visitors can go to when they come to
01:02:59 Trinidad and who are enthusiasts of the Steel Pan movement can visit. And I think this is
01:03:05 our aim, this is our main goal. That is where we feel the whole genesis of everything would
01:03:13 come from.
01:03:15 Mr. Vidal, anything you would like to tell us again before you leave us this morning?
01:03:20 Well, I would simply like to wish the country, and as I said, the members of the Steel Pan
01:03:26 movement, a happy Steel Pan month and to congratulate the country once again. And thank the government
01:03:34 and ask them to give us all the assistance and all the help that we will need in the
01:03:39 interest of the Steel Pan movement. More so now that it is acclaimed and proclaimed by
01:03:46 the United Nations, given the Steel Pan man, Steel Pan movement, the honor that it so deserves
01:03:54 after so many years in the wilderness. So I want to congratulate and to wish you all
01:04:01 even a very happy independence this year. And look forward to even our country giving
01:04:08 the Steel Pan movement the necessary proclamation to give it the honor and dignity as the United
01:04:16 Nations has.
01:04:18 Reginald Vidal, it's always a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you very much for speaking
01:04:22 with us this morning, sir.
01:04:24 Well, thank you very much, Marlon, for having me on. Be safe, continue to be safe and have
01:04:30 a good day. Thank you so much.
01:04:32 All right, sir. Bye for now. So it's time for another break. We're coming back.
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01:08:03 Alright, so welcome back. That is what you call panning your rukung kutungkung. You remember that?
01:08:08 Can I say that on TV? But I already said it, right? So it's now time for our Business Breakfast segment
01:08:14 with Vivek Charan, Chairman of the Confederation of Regional Business Chambers to discuss this recent spate
01:08:20 of home invasions and robberies as well as the brutal murders taking place and its impact on the business community.
01:08:26 Also try to get his perspective on the election and I think that's where we'll start. Mr. Charan, always,
01:08:34 thank you very much for coming. Not at all, thank you very much for having me.
01:08:37 Yeah? Let's look at what has been happening in the run-up to the local government election.
01:08:42 What's the perspective of the business community? Well, I mean, the business community and many of the chambers
01:08:47 have always tried to work closely with many of the councillors, regional cooperation councillors.
01:08:55 We have always felt that the regional cooperation councillors are the ones who really get things done in the community.
01:09:01 And many people may not know, but they actually have more power than the members of parliament for the respective constituency.
01:09:07 So for a long while, when they need things done or they need, let's say, assistance or for charitable things,
01:09:17 they reach out to the business community. The business community also reaches out to them to say,
01:09:20 "Hey, we have issues on this particular road or this water main has burst or whatever. We have issues with drainage and that."
01:09:29 So a cordial relation, no matter what the party is, with the regional cooperation and business is an important thing, we believe.
01:09:38 In the lead-up to this election, it's quite interesting. There are a lot of issues on the table that are beyond, let's say, local elections and so on.
01:09:48 I think one of the big things that has come up is really that whole thing about Stanley Grong legislation and Anthony Clipp and all these things that have been happening.
01:09:58 And the truth of the matter is that when we look at regional cooperation and we look at things like local government reform,
01:10:07 how can we now tap into that and say what other roles do the regional cooperation, local government,
01:10:14 or even the MP for a constituency have in assisting with issues of crime within that community?
01:10:21 So I was looking at a video the other day that went viral where we watched police officers coming into a particular area.
01:10:29 I don't know the area. And they were blocking people, blocking them and throwing things at the vehicle and so on.
01:10:35 When you look at that, what about the interaction? How can the local government representative in terms of the councillor,
01:10:44 who would know the people and have been working with them over a period of time, how does the MP for the area,
01:10:49 who would have been walking the area and know everyone as well, how can they stand up and assist the police or help the community in itself?
01:10:59 You know what I mean? Get away from that grip of crime in a sense. Do they have a responsibility to do that given the state of affairs that we're currently in?
01:11:10 I would think that all resources should be utilised and if there are resources within the community and they actually have some authority and power,
01:11:17 then should the authority and power also be used to help or uphold the rule of law in a sense with regard to police coming into the community
01:11:26 and that sort of thing or actually going out and speaking to people in the community.
01:11:30 Yeah. But you know the argument, what the argument has always been is that crime is everyone's business.
01:11:37 Correct.
01:11:38 And everyone has, excuse me, has a role to play. Just recently, and it was a few days ago,
01:11:46 we would have seen some frightening state of affairs happening in communities such as Tunapuna.
01:11:55 And I know that that's a community that you, your family and business has had a very close relationship with.
01:12:05 Yeah, I actually grew up in Tunapuna and that was a completely different time at that.
01:12:09 Then I remember walking from the store a couple of streets away when I was a very young child to buy things like hops bread from the Chinese baker round the corner.
01:12:19 Now we wouldn't do those things, right? But that was the kind of community Tunapuna was many, many years ago.
01:12:25 We have seen Tunapuna erupting in a sense. I think as a hotspot it's been growing and it's a cause for concern because Tunapuna is a nucleus for business.
01:12:35 Tunapuna is a very vibrant area for business. It's been longstanding in a sense and there's a lot of development that's happening along that eastern main road
01:12:44 within the vicinity of, let's say, St. Augustine and Tunapuna and so on. And therefore, the idea that it is becoming a hotspot,
01:12:51 or we've seen more gang-oriented violence happening in Tunapuna, it is, I think, a cause for concern.
01:12:57 Yeah. I think that the police will tell you that, as it relates to crime, that they have been trying,
01:13:08 but the government, I suspect, will also tell you that they have been trying. But Trinidad and Tobago has not really been able to put its thumb on the situation.
01:13:22 Well, I think you have a very good overview of crime. I mean, you've been on that, you know, the other show for a very long time,
01:13:29 and you had access to a lot of intelligence over the years. And I believe you're 100% correct.
01:13:35 The government has been doing what they can do. The police have been doing what they can do.
01:13:40 So now the question is, Marlon, seeing that all these things have been done, right, and looking at the current threat level,
01:13:47 would we not agree that the current threat level when it comes to crime is high? I think we can agree on that.
01:13:52 Can we also agree that the current threat level when it comes to things like home invasions and so on is also quite high?
01:13:59 So what about, you know, how can we, the citizens, also protect ourselves in an environment where the threat level is high,
01:14:08 and things like home invasions and so on is real and happening, is not a statistical aberration,
01:14:14 or is happening two months ago and it won't happen again or whatever. It's happening a lot.
01:14:19 Within the Confederation, I have had, I know for a fact that a lot of the members have been victims of home invasion,
01:14:28 and some of them brutally so. When I look at all the home invasions that have kind of happened,
01:14:35 and I've heard about it, and I have, you know, we know that it actually did happen to these people.
01:14:41 Many things, we see many things in common. One of them is the brutality, the fact that there's a lot of grievous bodily harm,
01:14:48 there's a lot of beatings that happen within. I've had a family member, a victim of a home invasion,
01:14:54 140 shallow stabbing wounds, stays back. I mean, it can go on. The reality is, when we look at all this brouhaha right now about Stanye Grong,
01:15:04 or our legislation, and, you know, things like that, I feel that the government should be on the side of the people and the citizens,
01:15:14 to understand that the police can't be omnipotent and omnipresent. They can't be everywhere.
01:15:21 The reality is that most of the times when home invasions are called, the police arrive after the situation.
01:15:26 They're not going to arrive before the situation to stop the home invasion in progress. Very rarely that's going to happen.
01:15:32 So, why not support the people? Why are we taking something like Stanye Grong legislation, which isn't really happening, right?
01:15:40 The fact that it matters that, you know, I read an article, Jagdev Singh was a lawyer, he wrote an article in May, I think,
01:15:47 talking about how the current common law with regard to self-defence is substantial enough, and we don't need to go down the road.
01:15:55 But if we did do the Stanye Grong legislation, it would sort of, you know, detail or flesh out in a way, you know,
01:16:04 more to that common law of self-defence. The reality is we all have a right to self-defence, one.
01:16:11 Two, we also do not have an obligation to retreat in the face of grave and imminent danger or attack.
01:16:18 What we do have, however, is the responsibility that the response that we have towards the perceived attack or the imminent attack should be in line.
01:16:28 So, for example, if you're fighting over a car park on the outside and somebody attacks you, you cannot draw a firearm and shoot the person.
01:16:36 That would obviously be wrong. If somebody comes into your yard and they're picking mangoes from your tree and you ask them to leave,
01:16:41 and they say no, they're not leaving, no, they're taking too long, and you pull out a firearm and you shoot them, you will be committing murder.
01:16:47 But when we look at what is happening, when we look at the fact that four people jump in your fence, or four people rushing into your yard,
01:16:54 when the gate is opening, right, and one of them have a machine gun or two of them have machine guns and whatever,
01:16:59 and then they tie you up and they beat you, then we're looking at something different.
01:17:02 We also have to understand that society has changed. It has been upon the man to be the protector of the house in a sense.
01:17:09 But when we look at the details of what happens in a home invasion, the man or the big son or whoever is the first one to be tied up and beaten in front of everybody else.
01:17:17 But we also have situations where women are the leader of the household.
01:17:22 We're single moms, women living alone with their kids, women living alone with elderly parents.
01:17:28 And when you look at the spectrum of things that can happen to a woman as compared to a man, it's not sexist for me to say so,
01:17:33 when you look at murder to grievous bodily harm, sexual assault and ravery rarely happens with men.
01:17:40 But it is something that is a real and present threat for women.
01:17:43 So how do women protect themselves in situations like that?
01:17:46 And that is why it's important for us to really air this thing about what is self-defense,
01:17:52 because we are in a situation, and I believe that it's accurate to say so, where the confrontation between criminals and homeowners,
01:18:01 or criminals and us, the good citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago across the board, is going to happen more and more often.
01:18:09 If it is not already happening.
01:18:11 Your federation, your confederation, began discussions or had discussions a few months ago about the issue of crime.
01:18:24 It happened at the university.
01:18:26 I suspect the Minister of National Security was there, the police commissioner was there.
01:18:32 But do you think that there is need for more consultations, more discussions such as these, maybe a national consultation on crime?
01:18:43 We had those things, we had a Caribbean, what has come out of the Caribbean, we've had very quietly,
01:18:49 there's been many NGOs and people working quite tirelessly in the background.
01:18:56 There are people like Angela Lilloy, many other people who have been working with the police for a very long time,
01:19:03 and have been sort of trying to help in whatever way they can.
01:19:06 So these things are actually happening.
01:19:08 The reality is that despite the fact that they are happening, what is our real and present situation,
01:19:14 or what is the nature of the environment, remains basically the same.
01:19:18 And as I said, the threat level continues to be high.
01:19:21 Why it is that we allow other people, or why it is we continue to define ourselves so narrowly as in terms of race,
01:19:28 because what is very disturbing about the current dialogue is that it has now taken a strange turn to say that
01:19:36 if I defend myself in my home, it could be construed as some sort of racial, you have a racial agenda or something like that.
01:19:47 And the problem in our society is that in dysfunctional relationships, you have therapists and psychologists
01:19:54 say you're triggered into a certain behavioural pathway, you're triggered into a level of fear.
01:19:59 And this race card that we keep playing, or other people keep playing towards us,
01:20:03 triggers many of us into this sudden belief that this is going to happen and there's going to be an all-out war.
01:20:10 Crime has no colour. It doesn't matter.
01:20:12 When people jump in a yard or they come and they tie you up, you rarely have the time to sit down there
01:20:16 and study what their race and ethnicity and their religion is. No, you don't.
01:20:19 Really and truly, it's about good and evil, light and darkness.
01:20:22 The good people of Trinidad and Tobago and the criminals who are coming to take what they want and hurt you as well too.
01:20:29 Now, before we were told, listen, just don't retaliate, just give them what they want, don't resist.
01:20:39 And people have been doing that. And what happens when they do that? They still get beaten to a pulp anyway.
01:20:44 Mr. Chiron, we just have about one minute again. Your final thoughts, sir?
01:20:48 I really hope that, you know, out of this entire conversation, that the government will try and find a way to protect the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
01:21:01 and do so legally in terms of what it is, the right to self-defence.
01:21:07 Because I do honestly feel that this confrontation between criminals and us, the citizens, really is going to continue to happen.
01:21:16 And I believe that we need a solution past the police because it is upon ourselves at a certain point to look after ourselves.
01:21:23 Yeah. Vivek Chiron, it's always a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you very much for coming this morning, sir.
01:21:28 So that's going to be it for me today on The Morning Edition. Of course, we do have CPL action for you.
01:21:35 James Saunders is in the wings somewhere there, promising you much energy and much information this morning concerning the CPL.
01:21:43 So thank you to all of our guests today on the program. All right. So we do have this update for you from Maracas.
01:21:50 See you all tomorrow. Bye for now, everybody.
01:21:54 Thanks, Vivek.
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