00:00 Hello and welcome back to the 77%.
00:02 This week we are in the beautiful city of Kigali
00:05 and we're here to talk about something
00:06 that is very rarely discussed in the African public spaces
00:10 and that is sex.
00:11 And so we're here to try and find out
00:13 is it time that we rethink how we have conversations
00:16 around sex and sexuality?
00:17 Well, I have some people here
00:18 who are going to help me answer that question
00:20 and I want to start with a broad question for everyone.
00:23 Do you remember your first introduction to sex education?
00:26 How was that like?
00:27 The first introduction was being shown how to wear a pad
00:31 because apparently people assumed
00:33 I had started menstruating.
00:35 And now I was told to be very careful
00:37 because it seems it's possible
00:39 to have a human being after that.
00:40 Yeah.
00:41 Okay, Tolo, let's hear from you.
00:42 What about you?
00:43 I'm South African, so in SA,
00:45 mainly it was due to the HIV and AIDS pandemic.
00:48 So everything was against that.
00:50 It was trying to teach us about sex,
00:52 but in relation to this is what might happen to you.
00:55 So all I ever saw were campaigns on TV at school.
00:58 So my idea of sex was like,
00:59 eventually you have like these little creepy things
01:01 that get into your blood and suck you dry.
01:04 Oh my gosh, that sounds very scary.
01:06 It's a piece of, you're laughing.
01:08 Was it the same for you in Botswana?
01:09 My first interaction with the idea of sex sexuality
01:12 was actually at home.
01:13 The beginning of a term, mom asked for our school bags
01:16 and we think she's checking the books,
01:18 making sure everything's ready for the new school term.
01:20 We get our bags back, we find condoms, right?
01:23 We're shocked, we're like, what are these?
01:25 That's when we initiated the conversation.
01:27 My mother initiated the conversation on sex and protection
01:31 and obviously coming from Botswana, HIV.
01:34 So it sounds like it's a lot of fear-based education.
01:38 Ivy, I'm gonna put you on the spot here
01:39 because your mom, Elizabeth, just said what her experience was.
01:42 Did she give you your first introduction to sex education?
01:45 Yeah, actually, regarding how you relate to boys,
01:48 how you relate to men, you know,
01:51 how you carry yourself in your teen years.
01:54 Yeah, and it is the reason why I am the lady who I am today.
01:57 Yeah, I actually wanna hear from Emma
01:59 because she is, we call them shangazis here,
02:01 but it's actually a sex educator in a traditional setup.
02:04 Is this how people get introduced to sex in Rwanda?
02:08 It's a little bit different
02:09 because when I was growing up,
02:11 I got the first introduction when I was really young,
02:14 like at seven years old.
02:18 And that's when we were with other girls,
02:22 especially domestic girls.
02:24 If you have one at home,
02:25 and they start talking about,
02:28 especially the Rabia inongashen.
02:30 So this is a culture that starts very early
02:32 in Rwandan culture,
02:33 and that's where you start learning about sexuality.
02:37 It doesn't happen very much these days,
02:41 but yeah, you can be introduced to really sexuality
02:46 as young as seven.
02:47 Okay, so Amina, let me come to you briefly
02:49 because we're seeing that there's various ways
02:51 that people got into contact with the information about sex,
02:54 and not just sex, but also sexuality.
02:56 But why is it important
02:57 to have something more comprehensive?
02:59 One of the things that we've been able to see
03:02 is how adolescents have inadequate information
03:06 about sexual reproductive health.
03:07 For example, there are some who have told us,
03:10 like if you do unprotected sex at the nighttime,
03:15 you're not going to, at daytime,
03:17 you're not going to get pregnant.
03:18 So they do have plenty myths
03:22 about sexual reproductive health.
03:25 And if we don't equip them with the right information,
03:27 this is going to be something
03:28 that is going to be transferred even to others.
03:31 Okay, Emma, I'm just wondering the role of culture here.
03:36 What can we do to integrate some of these cultural practices
03:39 into sex education?
03:40 I feel like the Rwandan culture
03:43 used to encourage people to talk about sex.
03:46 We had people who were supposed to teach you about sex,
03:51 like your aunties or peers.
03:56 When Christianity came in Rwanda,
03:59 we started to learn that it's a sin.
04:01 So kind of sexuality and things related,
04:04 when you are not yet married, it's a sin.
04:07 Why are you interested?
04:08 Why are you talking about sex?
04:10 I want to come back to you, Tsolo,
04:11 because earlier you had said something interesting to me
04:13 about how sex education is taught,
04:15 and it's different for men and women,
04:17 or girls and boys in your culture.
04:19 Back home, the culture I come from,
04:20 part of the Xhosa culture,
04:22 you'll have young boys, they go off to the mountain,
04:25 they get circumcised, and they're taught
04:27 all of these ideas of what it means to be a man.
04:29 And one of the first things that they're expected to do
04:31 when they return back home
04:32 is to have a girlfriend and to sleep with her.
04:34 It's sort of like a transfer of energy that you have to do
04:37 that kind of welcomes you into manhood.
04:39 However, on the other end, when you have young girls
04:41 like myself, you're expected to remain a virgin
04:44 for as long as you can.
04:45 You have to keep it together.
04:47 You have to remain pure.
04:48 However, we live in the same society.
04:50 The same guy that you're expecting to go out there
04:52 and get girls, I'm the same girl
04:55 that's expected to be gotten,
04:57 and she's also expected to keep it together.
04:59 - Ivy, I want to come to you a little bit,
05:01 because I wonder if this pressure for a woman
05:04 to be preserved still exists in your generation.
05:08 - Actually, in Kenya,
05:10 when you get in a relationship with a guy,
05:12 or you are in the talking stages with a guy,
05:15 one of the few questions that they will ask you is,
05:17 "What is your body count?"
05:19 If I say my body count is five,
05:21 then they're like, "Damn, you have been passed around
05:24 "so much."
05:25 - It's the number of people.
05:26 - Yeah, and the man--
05:27 - Like you're an athlete, and you're talking to people.
05:28 - Yeah, and the man asking you that
05:30 has probably lost his count.
05:32 But you, when you say five, it is outrageous.
05:35 - Your mom is--
05:36 - You know--
05:37 - I believe what you're saying.
05:38 - You know, it is so--
05:39 - About the people you have slept with,
05:42 in your talking stages, what business?
05:45 I may not even like you, man.
05:46 Like, how can I--
05:47 - According to the man, I should be preserved, you know?
05:52 I should be in my bubble, be in my circle,
05:55 not have sexual relations.
05:56 But him, he is poking everywhere, you know?
06:01 He is everywhere, and it is not an issue.
06:04 - So you had a different viewpoint, right?
06:07 - Yeah, I have a little bit of a different experience
06:10 in how things are changing amongst young people
06:13 in my space.
06:14 When they're talking about their sexual encounters,
06:16 everyone works for their own orgasm, right?
06:19 I think that going along, it shows me that women
06:23 are taking control of their own sexual liberty.
06:28 And I think what then becomes problematic is,
06:31 on our side as the gents, right?
06:33 A lot of gents then become intimidated
06:35 by seeing a young lady who's so in touch
06:38 with their sexual side, right?
06:42 And who's pursuing their sexual liberties
06:45 as freely as we are as gents, right?
06:47 - By the way, we're speaking strictly here
06:49 from a heterosexual point of view.
06:51 I'd like to hear some solutions, some ideas you have
06:54 on how we could make sex, not a conversation
06:57 that's shrouded in mystery and secrecy,
07:00 but more open and in a healthy way.
07:02 - First, we need to get the shame off sex.
07:06 It is normal.
07:07 We need to start with the parents
07:09 and train them to bring up their children
07:14 in a way that they are comfortable and happy
07:16 with whoever they are, with their bodies.
07:19 - All right, and finally, Tsefiso?
07:22 - See, young people are already having conversations
07:24 on sex and sexuality with other peers.
07:27 For example, at our university campus,
07:30 we've created a space called Baraza
07:32 where we gather to have conversation
07:35 on topics that are kind of controversial.
07:39 And we've had conversations around homosexuality,
07:42 for example, and we've talked about women's pursuit
07:45 of their sexual liberties within these Baraza
07:47 and what that means in the African context, right?
07:50 And guys have been free enough to open up
07:54 about some of their misconceptions about that as well
07:57 and learn and learn, relearn as well.
08:00 - Wow, I love that.
08:01 That's a great place to wrap up this debate.
08:03 The sun is setting.
08:04 We have a lot to think about.
08:05 I asked earlier, should we rethink how, where,
08:08 and even who talks about sex on this continent?
08:10 That's a resounding yes, if you ask me.
08:13 Thank you for watching.
08:14 (upbeat music)
08:17 [MUSIC PLAYING]
08:20 You
