- 2 months ago
As Ukraine marks Independence Day, the war with Russia enters its fifth year with no end in sight. Cynthia Ng speaks to Ukraine’s Ambassador to Malaysia Dr Hennadii Nadolenko, about the reality on the ground, how drones are changing the fight, and what Kyiv wants to see from Malaysia.
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00:06Hello, you're watching our 1E Global with me, Cynthia Ng.
00:10This month, two nations mark independence, just days apart.
00:14Malaysia's Merdeka on August 31st and Ukraine's independence on the 24th.
00:20But while we celebrate 69 years as a nation,
00:23Ukraine marked theirs in the middle of a war now in its fifth year.
00:29Joining me on the show today is the man representing Ukraine to Malaysia,
00:34His Excellency Dr. Hennady Nadolenko, Ambassador of Ukraine to Malaysia.
00:38Your Excellency, welcome to the show and great to have you here at our studio.
00:42Thank you very much, Cynthia. It's great to be here.
00:44This is your, I would say, first Independence Day marking it in Kuala Lumpur.
00:49You arrived here almost exactly one year ago.
00:52Exactly one year. It's actually, yes, it's been only one year, yes.
00:56Congratulations to that. Before we get into the state of the war in reality in Ukraine,
01:01I want to start here. What has this year actually been like for you being in Kuala Lumpur?
01:06Oh, well, since, yeah, it's, you know, for me, coming here from the country of war,
01:16it was, you know, a really difficult time.
01:19It was both maybe emotionally and professionally, you know, big, big transition, you know,
01:26coming to peaceful, beautiful, wonderful country, I would say, you know.
01:32But, you know, I really like Malaysia. I like people. I like the warmth of the people, you know.
01:39I like the beautiful country, you know.
01:44We enjoy really good relations with Malaysia and I'm here to develop those relations, you know.
01:50We really would like to develop economic relations, political relations and we would like Malaysian people
02:01to know Ukraine a little bit better, you know, from not only by the news about the war, you know,
02:09but we would like to know what Ukraine is, you know, what people of Ukraine are, you know.
02:18And this is what we are doing here.
02:21And I can see lots and lots of opportunities here for our cooperation, you know.
02:27So one year for me was very hardworking, you know.
02:32I try to visit lots and lots of different places around, you know, I've been to Barneo already.
02:40I've been to around the country here.
02:43I've never been to the western part, actually, of Malaysia.
02:47But it's a beautiful country.
02:51It's wonderful people, very warm, very friendly.
02:54And I hope we can, you know, cooperate even more to understand each other, to be closer, not geographically,
03:05but human-to-human relation, you know.
03:08So it was a wonderful year.
03:11But really, I do hope that we finish the war, that the war will come to the end as soon
03:21as possible
03:22and it will be a good time, as we enjoy it before, you know.
03:26Before the war, we used to have direct flight to Ukraine.
03:29Lots of people visited Ukraine.
03:32Lots of people from Ukraine visited Malaysia.
03:35So I hope we can come to the time when peace will come in Ukraine
03:41and the war will stop and we can continue with those relations.
03:45Perhaps many, I think Malaysians or even Ukrainians alike are unaware
03:49that diplomatic ties between both countries started back in 1992.
03:53In fact, Malaysia was one of the first countries that recognized Ukraine's independence.
03:57I think Malaysia and Ukraine are more alike than people think in terms of population numbers,
04:03strong agriculture, education even, and the openness of the society.
04:10I do want to get your point of view about where do you think the relationship is strongest today
04:15and that you're really excited about building in the coming years.
04:18Yes, you mentioned, you know, that first of all, we are very close in size.
04:23You know, like Ukraine has around 34 million people
04:28and Malaysia has around the same number.
04:32We are on the very important crossroads in geographically, you know.
04:37You know, basically, Ukraine is in the middle of Europe, you know.
04:42You are in the middle of Asia, you know, South Asia, and basically in the middle of ASEAN.
04:52So you're a very important player in ASEAN.
04:55So we definitely can have lots and lots of opportunities to work together,
05:03and we have lots of similarities.
05:05Even our independence day is just one week apart, you know.
05:10We have very hardworking people in Ukraine.
05:13And in Malaysia, you have wonderful people who work very hard here and develop in this country.
05:22We have really good agriculture.
05:24You know, in Ukraine, we have really good agriculture.
05:27In Malaysia, you have really good agriculture.
05:29Education, cybersecurity, technology, anything you touch.
05:34Basically, all those spheres are very important for both countries, you know.
05:40And we can bring knowledge.
05:42We can bring technology.
05:44We can bring education to both of us, you know.
05:48We can have lots to learn from Malaysia and basically in Ukraine.
05:54Lots of good institutions and lots of good opportunities
05:59where we can approach each other and work together as a team, you know.
06:07Unfortunately, we don't have right now the embassy of Malaysia and Ukraine.
06:13With the war, the embassy was closed,
06:15and we're working on this possibility right now.
06:19It would be much easier to communicate, you know,
06:22if we had the embassy there.
06:25But, you know, we cannot push too much, unfortunately.
06:32At the same time, you know, we have really good trade over right now.
06:38It's about, like, turnover of our trade is around $450 million.
06:44You know, so it's a good start.
06:49If you look around, like, for example, vegetable oil here you have, you know.
06:55Like, Malaysia became number five buyer of sunflower oil, for example, right now, from Ukraine.
07:05We have, in Ukraine, lots of opportunities for food security, you know,
07:11like with grain, with vegetable oils, with poultry, you know.
07:17For us, very important, the market of ASEAN countries, you know.
07:22It's very big markets, around 700 million people, $4 billion of trade.
07:28You know, for us, Malaysia can become a center point of ASEAN countries, you know.
07:36So there's certainly plenty of opportunities and commonalities, I would say, between two countries.
07:41Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
07:43I think right now, of course, you have mentioned that, where we stand right now,
07:46of course, the war now in its fifth year.
07:48I do want to get a sense, at least for our viewers, the situation,
07:51the reality on the ground day-to-day for the average Ukrainians.
07:55This is fifth year.
07:58What has changed that most people outside Ukraine do not see
08:03about the realities of living in a drawn-out war?
08:09Look, the main thing we have to understand that the war hasn't become less mortal, you know.
08:18Unfortunately, the reality is the same, you know.
08:20The war is war.
08:22People dying every day, you know.
08:24Unfortunately, even though Ukraine withstands already nearly five years,
08:31you know, in this war, you know, the Russian terrorists were coming to Ukraine
08:38to conquer it in three days, you know, and we fight for nearly five years already.
08:44You have to understand that we completely changed the war itself, you know.
08:52Right now, as you could see, you know, the front line hasn't moved even a bit, you know.
09:00It's basically, Ukraine is taking back its land, you know.
09:04Unfortunately, the enemy starts to terrorize the country, you know.
09:10Now, I just came back two days ago from Kyiv, and it is really hard to understand
09:19how people live in this reality, because every day, Kyiv, every night,
09:26Kyiv terrorized with bombings, you know, like ballistic missiles, drones.
09:31Every day, Kyiv attacked by, Kyiv and different cities of Ukraine are attacked by drones,
09:40by missiles.
09:43In the middle of the night, you wake up to some explosions, you know, around you,
09:48and this is really scary, you know.
09:50It's not some thunderstorm or something like that,
09:53but it's really, really scary explosions when, you know, everything is shaking,
09:59you know, and you shake as well, you know.
10:03So, the war hasn't become less, you know.
10:07It's the only thing that Ukraine withstands very hardly to everything what's going on.
10:14And we completely reshape the war itself, you know.
10:19Right now, we're using lots of drones.
10:21Yes.
10:22Like right now, Ukraine producing about from five to seven million drones every year,
10:27you know, so, basically, everything is done by drones.
10:32It's different types of drones, you know.
10:35We kick them back in Black Sea, for example, you know.
10:40We, they don't have possibility to go there,
10:44because we invented the sea drones, you know.
10:47We invented lots of drones,
10:50which are fighting with those terrorists,
10:55with their troops on the ground, you know.
10:58We invented some caterpillar drones, you know.
11:01Is that what the front line looks like now?
11:03Because there's a lot of talk about the kill zone, you know,
11:05a stretch along where it's...
11:06Yeah, the kill zone right now is around plus minus 40, 60 kilometers,
11:12you know, in some areas.
11:13But it's just because we're using lots of drones.
11:18We save our people by using those drones.
11:22Unfortunately, they don't count, you know, on technology.
11:27They count on human resources, you know.
11:29They have lots of people to throw in, to burn in, you know.
11:34And this is really unfortunate, you know.
11:36To have a wall like that in the middle of Europe, you know,
11:41in 21st century, after all those wars which we already had for what?
11:46For a piece of land, you know.
11:48And by the way, you know that since they came in 2022,
11:53they gained only 1% additional, 1% of the land.
11:57This is incredible.
11:59And they already lost about 1.5 million people, you know,
12:05for 1% of Ukrainian land.
12:07They have enough land in Russia, you know.
12:12Ukraine is 16 or 20 times less than Russia.
12:15You know, what is this fight for?
12:18For 1% of land?
12:19Yeah.
12:20So that's to my next point, which is if you look at the front lines,
12:22you mentioned it yourself, that it has barely moved,
12:25perhaps in the last year.
12:26Is this a war, do you think, that neither side can win?
12:29Or is it about just one side trying to outlast the other at this point?
12:32Look, we have to understand that this is existential war, you know.
12:37This is war on existence, you know, on presence of Ukrainian people,
12:42you know, on future of Ukrainian people.
12:46And we have to fight for our existence, you know.
12:50Unfortunately, you know, we never go to any land, you know.
12:55We never fight against anyone.
12:58We never wish any bad to any people, you know.
13:02We just want to cooperate.
13:04We want to work together.
13:07We want to do things together, you know.
13:09But not fight, not kill each other, you know.
13:13But we have to protect ourselves.
13:16We have to survive.
13:18This is what we're fighting for, for our lives.
13:20If you look at the conversation in the past few months,
13:23Ukraine, of course, Kiev has said that it will never legally recognize
13:26the occupied land as Russian.
13:28Definitely.
13:29But there's also talks on the other side saying that
13:32the ceasefire could happen along current lines
13:34without that recognition.
13:36Is that something Ukraine can live in, with, a frozen line,
13:39with no surrender?
13:41Look, we, one very important thing, you know,
13:44you cannot always live in the war, you know.
13:47You really want peace, you know.
13:50And this is what the Ukrainian people want.
13:52Ukrainian people want peace.
13:54So definitely, we really want to stop the war.
13:59There is possibility that this territory will be under Russian,
14:08possibly, you know.
14:09But we will never recognize it, you know.
14:12This is Ukrainian territory.
14:14This is Ukrainian people.
14:15And we definitely will fight, you know.
14:19If the war continues, we will fight, you know.
14:22If there is possibility to stop the war,
14:25we definitely would stop any day.
14:28So there's been plenty of, suppose, peace talks,
14:31Geneva, Abu Dhabi, which didn't lead to any resubstantial.
14:35In your opinion, is diplomacy on pause?
14:38Is it dead?
14:39Or what's happening?
14:40Look, diplomacy is not on pause.
14:44We continue to communicate.
14:47We continue to talk to all around the world, you know,
14:51about possibility to stop the war.
14:55You know, but for us,
14:57the peace itself is not just, you know,
15:02just putting a break on war, you know,
15:05so that the enemy could reinforce itself, you know,
15:11recuperate, you know,
15:13rearm itself, you know,
15:14and then come again with even bigger impact.
15:18You know, for us,
15:19it's important to have genuine peace, you know,
15:22to have peace which we will enjoy for many, many years.
15:27You know, this is not a small pause to regroup,
15:33you know, and to continue as a war.
15:35So for us, it's important to have genuine peace
15:38with genuine agreements.
15:41And this is what we're talking about, you know.
15:45And definitely here diplomacy should work, you know,
15:49and diplomacy should continue.
15:53And we are doing everything possible from our side.
15:57You know, we're talking to our friends.
15:59We're talking to everyone, you know, to stop this war.
16:04You cannot have this war in 21st century,
16:07what we're talking about.
16:08Yeah.
16:09So let's talk about the rebuilding part
16:11because is it even realistic to rebuild,
16:14to build connections, to build the economy
16:16which is shattered by the war at this point
16:18while you're still in the middle of it?
16:19How does that look like to you?
16:21Look, Ukraine, besides fighting, you know,
16:25Ukraine is trying to continue to live, you know.
16:33The people going to school, going to work,
16:37we're trying to rebuild everything what is destroyed,
16:40you know, like, for example, just a couple of days ago,
16:43they again made big impact on our energy systems,
16:49you know, like, they're trying to destroy energy systems,
16:52they're trying to destroy water systems,
16:54they're trying to destroy sewage systems, you know.
16:56This is like, they're maniacs, you know.
16:59This is not terrorists, it's maniac terrorists,
17:03you know, which are trying to completely destroy
17:06life of ordinary citizens, you know.
17:09Like, I've been there for one month right now,
17:12and I've been to some places which they destroy.
17:15This is like ordinary homes of ordinary people, you know,
17:23just apartment buildings, the storages,
17:28the something like that, you know,
17:30the magazines, you know, and the stores and everything,
17:35like department stores, you know.
17:39And this is what they're destroying.
17:40They're not destroying military targets.
17:43But definitely they made already huge impact.
17:47Unfortunately, by our calculations,
17:49it's more than $500 billion projects
17:53to be rebuilt already in Ukraine.
17:58Direct damages, it's more than $200 billion, you know.
18:02So this is what we're talking to Malaysian companies to,
18:06you know, this is where your companies can help.
18:10And I suppose after the war, you know,
18:13we invite Malaysian companies to look into Ukraine,
18:18you know, to look into projects to rebuild in Ukraine,
18:20because what I can see here,
18:22like all your infrastructure,
18:26it's very nicely developed infrastructure,
18:29very nice buildings, very nice roads,
18:32you know, the toll roads, for example,
18:35here is one of the best ones,
18:37which is all around the world.
18:39So this is what we need, you know.
18:42We need really good companies
18:44with really good knowledge
18:45to be present after the war, you know,
18:48to rebuild it better,
18:49to rebuild it in better way.
18:52Like, for example, with energy,
18:55you know, it's kind of a hard joke
18:58in Ukraine that they made us to go to green energy,
19:03you know, soon as a plan, you know.
19:05Unfortunately, you know,
19:06they completely destroy our power stations.
19:09Now we have to go to green energy.
19:12Nearly every Ukrainian house has solar panels,
19:18windmills and stuff like that, you know.
19:21So, but we're developing, you know.
19:25We're developing and there are lots of projects
19:28for Malaysian companies will be available
19:30as we finish this war, you know,
19:33as we win this war,
19:34we will invite all Malaysian companies
19:37to come around.
19:39Earlier you said that we do not,
19:40Malaysia does not have a representative
19:42in Kyiv right now.
19:43Malaysian affairs are being run out of,
19:44I believe it's Warsaw.
19:46Yes, from Warsaw.
19:46For you, Ambassador,
19:48why does that gap matter so much
19:51and has there been any response
19:53from our government
19:55in having a representative again?
19:59We talk about that,
20:02you know, we raised this issue
20:04a couple of times.
20:06It's very important for us.
20:07Actually, Malaysia is only one of seven countries
20:10which didn't return back.
20:13More than 108 countries have returned
20:16and working in Ukraine
20:19well, with some security issues
20:20but basically they're working quite fine.
20:26You know, but it is important
20:27to have representatives there.
20:29It is important to have people
20:30to have a look in what's going on,
20:34you know, to understand better
20:35the situation.
20:36They have to have opportunity
20:38for your businesses to come around,
20:41you know, after war stops,
20:44you know, because there are lots and lots
20:46of business opportunities
20:48for your companies.
20:49So I hope one day
20:52Malaysia will come back
20:53and I hope it will be in my term.
20:56You know, at least we're talking about that
20:57but we really would like
21:00Malaysian embassy
21:01to reopen in Ukraine.
21:04So I'm going to ask you this question
21:05because if you look at Malaysia,
21:07we have always taken a fairly neutral
21:09non-aligned stance
21:10when it comes to conflict
21:11between two countries
21:12including this one.
21:14Does that neutrality,
21:15what do you feel about that neutrality?
21:16Does it help Ukraine
21:17or do you wish that a country
21:18like Malaysia
21:20or even Southeast Asia
21:21take a stronger stance
21:22in this matter?
21:23Look, we really respect
21:25the position of your country,
21:28respect the position
21:29of every country
21:30in the region,
21:31you know,
21:32and definitely understand
21:35the situation
21:36but we really would like
21:39stronger steps
21:40on securing peace
21:43in the world,
21:44you know,
21:44because we are
21:45very similar countries.
21:46We spoke, you know,
21:49about the same amount
21:50of people, you know,
21:51and we have to understand
21:53that only international law
21:55can prevent conflicts
21:56like this, you know.
21:57We have to comply.
21:59Every country has to comply
22:00and this cannot be
22:03things like this, you know,
22:04when bigger country
22:06can influence
22:06or get with the war
22:09to another country.
22:10So we really thank
22:12the Malaysian government
22:13to support us
22:14in UN voting
22:16all the time, you know.
22:19We,
22:20at the same time,
22:22we would like to see
22:22a little bit stronger push
22:25about international law,
22:28you know,
22:29and about the reality,
22:32you know.
22:32In the final few minutes
22:34that we have,
22:34Your Excellency,
22:35this is your first
22:37full Independence Day,
22:38Ukraine celebrating
22:39in Malaysia.
22:40What do you want
22:41ordinary Malaysians
22:42to understand
22:43about Ukraine?
22:46Look,
22:48one thing I want
22:49to understand
22:50that the war
22:51is not something
22:52which we live in,
22:54you know.
22:55I want them
22:55to understand
22:56what Ukraine is,
22:58what Ukrainian people are,
22:59you know.
22:59We are the same people,
23:01you know.
23:02We live on this planet,
23:04you know.
23:05We like to live,
23:07you know.
23:08We like to
23:09allow people,
23:11we're working,
23:12you know.
23:13I would like
23:15Malaysians to understand
23:16that Ukraine
23:16is a country
23:17with human,
23:19you know,
23:20with people who,
23:24you know,
23:24ordinary people
23:26who live
23:27its own life
23:28with its own culture,
23:30with beautiful
23:33identity,
23:34you know,
23:34with beautiful
23:35culture.
23:36And I would like
23:37our people
23:38to be closer.
23:39And this is
23:40what we are here for,
23:41you know,
23:41to work on that
23:42and to show
23:43that Ukraine
23:44is not only war,
23:45you know.
23:45We,
23:46yes,
23:47we are in the war
23:48right now
23:48because we
23:49have to protect
23:50ourselves,
23:51we have to
23:52protect our kids,
23:53we have to
23:53protect our future,
23:55you know.
23:55But at the same time
23:56we think,
23:57we love,
23:59we work,
24:02we do the same,
24:03you know,
24:03as any ordinary
24:05Malaysian do.
24:07So,
24:08I would like
24:10Malaysians to see
24:10the beauty
24:11of Ukrainian people
24:12and Malaysians
24:14and Ukrainians
24:15to see the beauty
24:16of Malaysian people.
24:17So,
24:17I hope I can do it.
24:19We look forward to that.
24:20Your Excellency,
24:21Dr. Henry Nodolenko,
24:22Ambassador of Ukraine
24:23to Malaysia,
24:24thank you so much
24:25for joining us
24:25on Awani Global.
24:26It's been a pleasure
24:27to have you on the show.
24:28Thank you,
24:28thank you.