00:00I want to go to Ashok Kanta. He's a former Indian ambassador to China, is someone who knows China very
00:05well. Mr. Kanta, good to have you on the show. Your first reactions. How do you see this as an
00:11icebreaker, given all that's happened in the last six years, the principals meeting in New Delhi, or do you believe
00:19it's one step forward in what's been a very complex and complicated relationship?
00:27Rajdeep, you know, ice had been broken some time ago. It happened a couple of years ago, more specifically when
00:34Prime Minister met with President Xi at Kazan. And then they had a meeting at Tianjin, and now they're meeting
00:39again in New Delhi on the margins of the BRICS summit.
00:44As Pranay put it in Chinese, essentially it means step by step. So what we're looking at is a calibrated
00:54process of incremental improvement in relations.
00:58I think we are conveying a very clear signal that we cannot rush into any kind of reset in relations.
01:06We have reiterated a basic position that any continued progress towards normalization will depend on peace and tranquility being maintained
01:17on border areas.
01:18Beyond that, you know, beyond that, you know, they have referred to some trade and economic issues that need to
01:24be discussed. But there are no concrete deliverables as such. Frankly, we're not expecting that because it's not a bilateral
01:35visit. This was a meeting on the margins of BRICS summit.
01:40So essentially what we can say that they are continuing the process, which has been going on for more than
01:49two years now. If they wish to, if the two countries wish to have a substantive, you know, breakthrough, that
02:00will involve dealing with some of the structural problems, relationship, including, you know, issue of trade imbalance that we have.
02:09I've been including terms of economic engagement between India and China, including, you know, kind of support China provide to
02:16Pakistan during Ops Hindu last year, or this mega hydropower project coming up in immediate, you know, vicinity to India
02:25-China borders at Medog in Tibet.
02:28I'm just listing some issues. These are issues which cannot be brushed aside.
02:33Can I just stop you to, you know, since you said these are issues that cannot be brushed aside. Take
02:44a look, for example, and I want to turn to a specific. China's support to Pakistan during Operation Sindhur. Well
02:49documented now.
02:50Now, 15 months later, are we saying that those issues, how do we resolve those issues? How do we, in
02:58a sense, convey to Beijing our disquiet?
03:01You know, the statement makes all the right noises. But unless you walk the talk, where does that leave the
03:09relationship? God forbid, if there is another Pahalgam-like situation, can we expect that China will be far more careful
03:17before sharing military and information with military information, sensitive information with Pakistan?
03:26No, I don't think we have that assurance at all. And I can tell you that in the past also,
03:33when I was, you know, representing India, we did discuss with China some very difficult issues.
03:39So there's no problem in discussing difficult issues. You know, this relationship cannot really be restructured without dealing with these
03:48structural issues. We have come to a position now, yes, we can have incremental improvement relations. We can have what,
03:55you know, when I refer to, you know, that step-by-step improvement, which is also good. I'm not trying
04:01to say that. That's not important.
04:03It's good to have, you know, it's good to have stability in relationship. It's good to have predictability in relationship.
04:09But if you wish to have constructive partnership, it will require, you know, greater efforts on part of both countries.
04:20But can you follow a two-track approach where our economic concerns, the widening trade deficit with China are addressed
04:28independently of the more contentious issues like the border dispute? Is that at all possible? Because China seems to favor
04:35that. China seems to want a twin-track approach. Is that something that New Delhi is ready for in your
04:40view?
04:41You know, Razdeep, even on economic issues, no one is questioning need for economic engagement with China, its second largest
04:50economy in the world, largest trading nation in the world. It's terms of economic engagement we are worried about, no
04:56imbalance in trade, not only that, no kind of problems Indian companies face in China, no kind of problems we
05:02face in sourcing critical material from China, you know, kind of investment which comes from China or doesn't come from
05:08China.
05:09So there are a whole lot of issues. I think there's need for a strategic economic dialogue to discuss those
05:15issues up front. We don't need to, you know, sort of link those issues to resolution of boundary question. We
05:22haven't done that. Only prerequisite is maintain peace and tranquility in border areas.
05:31My final question to you. Prime Minister Modi was someone who had invested a lot in the relationship with Beijing,
05:38particularly in his first term. If you recall, the meeting in Mahabalipuram, before that, a meeting in Gandhinagar, the so
05:45-called Jhula diplomacy that took place.
06:11You know, India-China relations summit level dialogue has played an important role.
06:17I'm not going to underestimate that. Yet, I think we have to approach China in a very hard-headed manner,
06:25you know, in a very realistic manner.
06:27You know, I don't think, you know, just good chemistry between leaders is going to be the panacea for sorting
06:34out issues.
06:35That will require, you know, perseverance, our willingness to take up difficult issues and try to find solutions.
06:48Okay. I'm going to leave it there, Ashok Kanta. Good to have you on the show.
06:52As you said, these are small baby steps that are being taken, but important baby steps sometimes can hopefully lead
06:58to a more long-term sustained engagement between the two Asian parts.
07:03Good to have you on the show.
07:06Thank you. Thank you.
07:09Okay, incremental. You say incremental, incremental steps as you're putting it. Okay.
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