00:00A Nobel Prize winning scientist who jointly discovered the DNA double helix has been stripped
00:06of his remaining honorary titles over controversial remarks he made about race and intelligence.
00:1390 year old Dr James Watson lost his job back in 2007 for expressing allegedly racist views.
00:20We can talk about it a bit more with Dr Turi King from the Department of Genetics and Genome Biology
00:24at the University of Leicester. Turi, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us.
00:28So he lost that job back in 2007. Can you just tell us what's happened now?
00:33Well, my understanding is that he has done a recent documentary where he reiterates his racist comments
00:39and this has obviously led to Cold Spring Harbour have decided to strip him of his honorary titles there
00:47so as to distance themselves from his views.
00:49Yeah, Cold Spring Harbour, the laboratory that he was working at.
00:54Some pretty awful stuff. He told a magazine in 2007 he was inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa
01:01as all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours,
01:06he said, where all the testing says not really.
01:09These are theories within the scientific community that have been thoroughly debunked, aren't they?
01:15Absolutely. I mean, the statements that he's making are simply not backed up by the science
01:19and I think that's one of the things that quite worries us scientists or geneticists within the field
01:24because obviously he's quite a big name of certain stature
01:27and so people may actually sort of believe what it is that he's saying here
01:31where it is simply not backed up by the science whatsoever.
01:33What does it mean for the work that he's known for rose to prominence because along with people like Francis
01:42Crick,
01:43Maurice Wilkins for that double helix discovery, does what he has said have put a dark cloud over the work
01:51he's done?
01:53I think it's extremely unfortunate because obviously he is incredibly well known alongside Crick and Wilkins and Rosalind Franklin indeed
02:01for the work in determining the structure of DNA, which was a huge breakthrough in science
02:08and really started the field of molecular genetics.
02:11So he's known as one of the father figures within our field
02:15and unfortunately these sort of statements that he's making, which aren't backed up by the science,
02:20which as a scientist is what you need to do, is you need to back up your statements with the
02:24evidence.
02:25I think it unfortunately begins to detract from that a little bit,
02:29which is a shame because what he did was incredible.
02:32It was an incredible breakthrough that he did.
02:34And as well, you know, I imagine for four people in your field,
02:39very personally upsetting someone who you probably admire, used to admire at least.
02:47Certainly. I mean, it's the sort of thing that when, as a person, you know, when you're learning about genetics,
02:52he is one of the big names.
02:53The 1953 paper is one of the seminal works within the field.
02:57And so obviously it's incredibly disappointing, given what he has done with this particular discovery,
03:03to have him saying things such as this.
03:07Though, ironically, it is quite interesting.
03:09The fact that he is saying this sort of things is almost testament to the fact that there are things
03:16other than genetics
03:18which determine people's outcomes.
03:21So, for example, he said that women are unable to reach the pinnacle of science simply because of our biology.
03:27But as it shows, it's not just genetics.
03:29It's other things that go on, such as people in positions of power having sexist views, for example.
03:36I wonder what you make of what his son Rufus said, said that his father is in a nursing home
03:41after a car crash.
03:43My dad's statements might make him out to be a bigot and discriminatory,
03:46but they just represent his rather narrow interpretation of genetic destiny.
03:50My dad had made the lab his life, and the lab now considers him a liability.
03:54What do you make of that?
03:57I can understand why the lab sees him as a liability now,
04:01because it's the sort of thing where you would like to have a scientist backing up their views with the
04:07evidence,
04:08and unfortunately he doesn't seem to be doing that.
04:11Dr. Thury King, thank you for speaking to us this evening.
04:15No problem.
