00:00But I want you, the viewer, to also understand what exactly are the possibilities,
00:04what can happen, and why only politicians are fighting.
00:07That's why joining me right now is a very important guest, Dr. Mohamed Amin.
00:12He's served as a former Joint Director with the Election Commission.
00:15He's acted as a Chief of Protocol with the Election Commission of India.
00:19And at least for five years, he fully understands what this situation has been and what could be.
00:25Thank you so much, Dr. Amin, for joining me.
00:27My first question is, the main issue is the protocol of dissent that is being reported here.
00:32Is it uncommon?
00:33Have you seen during your tenure any of these serious, significant internal dissents
00:38on sensitive issues of this nature before?
00:40Or do you think this is the first time such a difference of opinion has come in?
00:47Pooja, actually, first time I have seen in the press and the media now,
00:50this type of the controversies occurred.
00:53But earlier we have, like in TN Session's time,
00:59so MS Gill has the problem.
01:01And after that, you can see Gopala Swami has the problem with the Naveen Chawla.
01:07And after that, you can see Sunil Rara.
01:10At that time, Ashok Lawasa has some problem.
01:12And he has resigned even.
01:14That was also controversy, big controversy there.
01:16And Ashok Lawasa has left for the foreign assignment and IDB Bank for the Manila.
01:24That's why he has left his own.
01:26Nowadays, we have seen this, they have written the letter to commissioners who have not agreed
01:32with Mr. Gyanesh Kumar and they have written letter to the cabinet secretary.
01:38That is not correct.
01:39If they have any dispute, they can take appointment with the president of India.
01:44They are reporting the president of India and the president of India, their guardian, are the next boss.
01:49So if any problem was there with the commissioners,
01:54it was not the letter to the president, not to the cabinet secretary.
01:59That was not correct.
02:00I'm telling you, if there is a full commission order that is implemented always with the full
02:07agreement, with the full commission has listened, then order comes outside.
02:11And any paper, small paper, comes to the election for the consultation.
02:16So every commissioner pass on, they know everything about all the commissioners.
02:22And as per the government, as per the constitutional body, they have all equal rights.
02:30Like the Supreme Court judges, they have the power in joining.
02:33And here is also all are the equal.
02:35Maybe one is the chief and two is the commissioner.
02:38But in case of all respect, they have full power equally.
02:44Then I have to ask you this, sir, because that is the main question here.
02:47Let's say the two election commissioners do not agree with the decision to be taken.
02:52Can the CEC take a decision, sign it by himself and get the order cleared?
02:58Do you think that can happen?
02:59Is that a possibility?
03:02Pooja, that is not correct if he is issuing the order.
03:07Only two commissioners have the power.
03:09If they are jointly, then they are in the majority.
03:12Two is one.
03:13So one cannot, any veto power even.
03:16I have seen so many people are telling me veto power.
03:20So Kainish has no veto power for that.
03:23Only two commissioners have the majority.
03:25So all majority goes to the two commissioners, not to the NSG.
03:28It's not correct.
03:31Majority or unanimous?
03:33And thank you for just putting it in perspective.
03:35The next question then I would want to ask you is on this technical system
03:39that has come in the allegation of technical oversight that is being done,
03:42the centralized system, the digital ecosystem that has been brought in here.
03:45Do you think that's a problem?
03:47The issue of deletions, registrations, appeal that is happening.
03:51What do you say to that?
03:52Do you think BLO should have more power?
03:54Should they have access to or other officials have access to the digital system, sir?
04:01In the system, Pooja, always the BLO and AERO are responsible for the registration of the voter
04:07and deletion of the voter.
04:08But I'm saying to always, election commissioners, not before the GAN, before that, they have all power with the Delhi,
04:21the chief election office.
04:23This commissioners, ECI, has the power.
04:25And whenever that notification is there for the state registration, registration of the voters,
04:32this is direction from here and they open at that time.
04:36This is very clear.
04:37Not this first time, always happen like this.
04:39Absolutely.
04:40And this is from here also.
04:41So this is not the correct, this time, first time.
04:44This is always happen from the supply system of the voter registration.
04:49And in case of the Goa, you're mentioning.
04:52Yes.
04:52I'm telling you, there is a time limit for every registration.
04:57Voter registration time is there.
05:00The second is the draft list.
05:02There is also some time for the registration.
05:05And the notification of the publishing of the voter final list is also a time limit.
05:11Because there is a problem for the server and the time limit was over.
05:19That's why the CEO, BRO and even CEO was trying five, four times to have heard about that.
05:25But not correct.
05:26Due to the time limitation, that might be server is closed.
05:29Why?
05:30This is the security system.
05:31Nobody can delete, nobody can enter without the permission of the election commission of India.
05:35This is the correct.
05:36Dr. Amin, are you saying then, if I'm correct,
05:40that you're saying that the digital system and the manner in which not anybody can access it
05:45beyond a certain number of officials is actually making it more secure?
05:52Yeah.
05:53Secure the data.
05:59So, the issues basically that are coming in that, from what I understand,
06:02because, sir, you've been at a joint director position,
06:04a lot of meetings that you would also have access to.
06:07Another issue, the complaint that was filed was about for a year.
06:10No agenda was received by the election commissioners before the meeting.
06:14And from what I understand, working in all of these institutions,
06:18that agendas have to be shared because a lot of discussions around it happen,
06:23the manner in which what is expected as part of the agenda.
06:26What do you say to this very specific charge that agendas were not received for a year?
06:31Do you think that can happen?
06:32Is that possible?
06:36Pooja is not correct.
06:38I'm 100% sure all the orders close after the full commission order,
06:43not a single one.
06:44That is not issued and not implemented.
06:48After the full concern of the commission,
06:51this is issued orders.
06:55And every commissioner knows.
06:57I'm telling you, a single paper is also always move on to the commissioner's office.
07:04And they have proper discussion.
07:05After that,
07:06and that comes with the law of the election commission of India.
07:11I'm going to tell you, if they have any problem...
07:14Sir, I just want to ask you here,
07:16that means no official communication or order can be cleared
07:20without the approval of all three or at least the understanding of all three?
07:28I'm going to tell you, if they have any problem,
07:31then go to the president of India.
07:33Nowadays, the position is very bad in the country
07:35and the image is going down.
07:37Like we have the word famous in terms of democracy,
07:40we are doing very good.
07:41And we have the institution here.
07:43We are teaching them to foreigners,
07:45even chief election commissioners.
07:47Some countries are coming to attend
07:48how we are doing the demonstration
07:52and how we are doing the election management.
07:55So this is defaming to the election commission of India.
07:58So that's why, it's my advice,
08:03for the election commission,
08:05independence sake,
08:07they can come together
08:08and joint press conference must be addressed
08:10by the election commission of India.
08:12So everybody can understand,
08:15even press, media,
08:17and all parties,
08:19and even all voters of the country.
08:21Then confidence will be developed
08:23again to the election commission of India.
08:25Otherwise, I'm sure that nowadays,
08:27this who and cry,
08:28everybody is doubtful
08:29about the election commission's independence body.
08:34And let me make that my final question,
08:36because you've also worked
08:37with the election commission.
08:39What do you think needs to happen now?
08:41Because we used to always quote
08:42the election commission
08:43as this independent,
08:45strong authority figure
08:46that's ensuring democracy is functional.
08:48Do you think the SIR exercise
08:50needed to be done?
08:52Because of this SIR,
08:53it appears,
08:54or at least the controversy around SIR,
08:56that the election commission's image
08:57has taken a hit.
09:02SIR process is correct one,
09:05and we needed long back.
09:06As this was happened,
09:07due to the Mr. Rahul Gandhi
09:09has spoken after the Delhi Haryana,
09:11and he has spoken in the election of Maharashtra,
09:14and lacks of the voters
09:15included for the BJP party,
09:17and lacks of the voters
09:18have deleted from the opposition side.
09:21So that's why
09:22the election commission
09:23has think over that,
09:24and they have decided
09:25before the Bihar election,
09:26the SIR done.
09:28Means SIR is what is that?
09:29Special Intensive Revision.
09:31Means we have deleted
09:33the death cases,
09:34migrated,
09:35and so on.
09:36So that's why
09:37now we have the digital voter list.
09:41So you can put any button,
09:43and you see anywhere in the world,
09:45where is the voter list?
09:46And the clearly faces,
09:48correct phone numbers,
09:49contact numbers,
09:50and their addresses,
09:52and their father name.
09:53So this is the correct list now
09:54we can prepare.
09:55Very interesting,
09:56very important.
09:57I appreciate you,
09:57Dr. Mohamed Avin,
09:58for speaking to India today,
09:59and just putting it in clarity for us
10:01about what really are the possibilities,
10:03the loopholes and more.
10:05Let's hope that the controversy
10:06is put to end very soon.
10:07Thank you very much
10:08for joining us
10:08on To The Point on India today.
