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Revanth Reddy's Ram vs Shiva pitch stirs political debate
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00:03Hello and welcome. You're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savanth and there is now a fresh
00:09political storm over a statement made by Telangana Chief Minister Revant Reddy. His remarks on
00:17Maryada Purushottam Sri Ram and Bhagwan Shiv. So Revant Reddy was speaking in the national
00:24capital. He sought to draw a parallel and perhaps draw a regional contrast between Bhagwan
00:32Ram and Bhagwan Shiv. He said and I quote, we are Drevidans. People here in the north are Aryans.
00:41We are devotees of Shiva. They are devotees of Lord Ram. Revant Reddy then went on to accuse the BJP
00:49of stealing Lord Ram and questioned why Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the Bharatiya Janta
00:56party leaders did not chant Har Har Mahadev and only Jai Shri Ram. And then came what the BJP
01:06describes as the most controversial part of his remarks. Revant Reddy said words to the effect,
01:11Shiva is the god of the poor, Ram is the god of the rich, BJP is the party of the
01:20rich. But is there
01:23any evidence whatsoever or any merit whatsoever in what Revant Reddy claimed? I want you to look at
01:31some of the visuals on your television screens right now. Now these are all images of Prime Minister
01:38Narendra Modi visiting various temples of Bhagwan Shiv in the past five years. From Kashi Vishwanath,
01:48that's his parliamentary constituency Varanasi, to Mahakal in Ujjain, to Somnath in Gujarat. He's also
01:57visited Pashupatinath temple in Kathmandu in Nepal. The BJP has hit right back at Revant Reddy accusing the
02:04Telangana chief minister of trying to divide and food, trying to create political and geographical
02:12divides in India and a divide between followers of Maryadha Purshottam Shri Ram and Bhagwan Shiv.
02:20There is no divide. Minister of State for Home, Bandhi Sanjay Kumar, he said Revant Reddy was attempting
02:26to draw political boundaries between two deities that every Hindu worship. And this is not the first
02:33time Congress and its leaders have been in the line of fire or have faced questions over their
02:39position on Hindu deities. For example, in May 2025, leader of opposition in Lok Sabha and Congress Party
02:47senior leader Rahul Gandhi, former party president, he was speaking at Brown University. He referred to
02:53Maryadha Purshottam Shri Ram as a mythological figure while explaining his idea of Hinduism.
03:01Then came the Congress decision to stay away from the January 2024 Pranat Pratishtha ceremony at the
03:08Divya Bhavya Dennavya Shri Ram temple at Ayodhya. Sonia Gandhi, Malik Arjun Karge, Adhiranjan Choudhury,
03:15reports said they declined the invitation. The Congress said the ceremony had been turned into
03:20an RSS BJV event and the temple was being inaugurated ahead of its completion just for
03:28electoral gains. Months earlier, December 2023, Congress leader Sam Pitroda, he questioned the
03:34significance being attached to the Divya Bhavya Ram Mandir at Ayodhya. He asked whether the Ram
03:40Mandir was the real issue. He pointed to issues like unemployment, inflation, state of economy.
03:47Let me take you back to October 2018. Congress leader Shashi Tharoor said, while a vast majority
03:54of Hindus believe that Ayodhya was the birthplace of Lord Ram, no good Hindu would want a temple
04:02built by demolishing somebody else's place of worship. And then of course, you'd recall
04:08the 2007 Shri Ram Setu controversy. During the UPI government's tenure, an affidavit was filed in the
04:17Supreme Court, which raised questions about the historical or even any evidence whatsoever of the
04:24existence of either Lord Ram or the Ram Setu. The center, after a huge furor, nationwide furor,
04:33it withdrew the controversial parts of that affidavit, which seemed to suggest that there was no evidence
04:39of Lord Ram or words to the effect that he was just a mythological character. The BJP has also
04:45pointed to their efforts to improve infrastructure, their efforts at improving infrastructure across
04:50temple towns. Kashi Vishwana Dham Corridor, for example, that was inaugurated in December 2021,
04:55expanded the temple area, improved access between the temple and Maganga, the river flowing in Kashi.
05:04They also point to Mahakarlok in Ujjain, where the first phase was dedicated to the nation in 2022.
05:10That was a project cost of about 850 crore rupees and major redevelopment of pilgrimage centers
05:17across the country. The government also cites the Kedarnath redevelopment project,
05:22as well as the development work being undertaken at the Somnath Temple, as part of a broader push to
05:28upgrade temple tourism or pilgrimage infrastructure and heritage sites of the Sanatana Dharma.
05:37So tonight, that larger political question is not simply Revant Reddy raising an issue about
05:43Lord Ram versus Lord Shiva. It's about whether India's gods, India's traditions should themselves
05:48become political fault lines. North versus South, rich versus poor, Ram versus Shiva.
05:55The British use divide and rule, is divide and rule being brought in once again.
06:04We debate that larger controversy, but before that, this report.
06:26Telangana chief minister is in the eye of a storm.
06:34The controversy triggered by Chief Minister Revant Reddy himself.
06:38Chief Minister Reddy allegedly pitted Lord Ram and Lord Shiva against each other during an event
06:45in the national capital while questioning the BJP's use of the slogan of Jai Shri Ram.
06:58He also made comments contrasting the religious and political identities of North and South India.
07:05We are from Dravidians and Aryans. We are from Shri Ram and Shiva.
07:12So Ram Ji is the протizing of BJP's.
07:14When did he show up?
07:17Why did he show up?
07:17BJP's people in the Slack and say what he said.
07:22He never threatened him.
07:23Now, what is Shri Ram.
07:23He said they don't like the people.
07:27He never thought theСvah.
07:28He never thought the Dog was Shivji.
07:29He never thought the Sinai Shri Ram.
07:40The remarks drew a sharp response from BJP, which accused Reddy of creating divisions of Shiva and Ram.
08:03BJP also pointed out that Prime Minister Narendra Modi represents Varanasi Lok Sabha constituency, where the Kashi Vishwanath temple is
08:12located.
08:14Unfortunately, he represents a pseudo-secularist party who doesn't believe in God itself and also religion itself.
08:22This party ridicules every time Hindu gods and goddesses. It has nothing to do with the South or North.
08:30These toxic statements also expose the Congress conspiracy to peddle a communal agenda, spreading hate and sowing divisions and fabricating
08:42a non-existent, fake, false, North-South narrative.
08:47The remarks by Telangana Chief Minister has now opened a fresh North-South Ram vs. Shiva political party.
08:57The remarks by the BJP have been sent to the Kashi.
09:02The remarks by the Kashi.
09:02Shiavara Ram Chandra ki!
09:06Shiavara Ram Chandra ki!
09:08Bureau Report, India Today.
09:11Shiavara Ram Chandra ki!
09:12Shiavara Ram Chandra ki!
09:14Shiavara Ram Chandra ki!
09:15So is there merit in Telangana Chief Minister, Revant Reddy's contention of North worshipping Maryadhapursho Tham Shri Ram and South
09:22worshipping Bhagawan Shiv?
09:24Is there merit in the Aryan vs. Dravidan thinking even in 21st century India and that rich vs. poor divide?
09:32Or is there deeper politics in this statement?
09:36Is Maryadhapursho Tham Shri Ram limited just to North India?
09:40There is a village or a city or a temple or a street named after Maryadhapursho Tham Shri Ram almost
09:47across the length and breadth of this country.
09:49Take for example Ramban in Jammu and Kashmir, take any city from Kashmir to Rameshwaram, from Somnath to Jagannath Puri,
09:59there is a reference to Lord Ram, Bhagawan, Shiv, Bhagawan, Vishnu.
10:04But that is the strength of the Sanatana Dharam.
10:08Even before India became an entity, as a political entity as we know today, our religion united our country in
10:17one culture.
10:18Look at Amarnath Shrine in Jammu and Kashmir.
10:22Look at Kedarnath.
10:24But anyway, let's see, what should one make of Revant Reddy's statement?
10:28Joining me on India First, Tuhin Sinas, the national spokesperson of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
10:33Nikhil Jain is a political analyst and an advocate.
10:36The Congress Party chose to stay away from this debate.
10:40Ratan Sharda is author, conflict resolution, the RSS way.
10:45Nikhil Jain, decode Telangana Chief Minister and Congress leader Revant Reddy's statement.
10:50We are Dravidans, we are devotees of Lord Shiva.
10:54They are Aryans who worship Lord Shri Ram.
10:58Lord Shiva is God of poor.
11:00Lord Ram is God of the rich.
11:02A word to that effect, sir.
11:06I think what the Chief Minister has raised is an important point about the political appropriation of a particular deity
11:12of the Hindu faith
11:13and how the BJP tries to make it very, very political.
11:16A lot of their political campaigns start with and end with Jai Shri Ram.
11:20There's nothing wrong in that.
11:21I would say Jai Si Aram, Arhar Mahadev, Jai Madurga, Vande Matran, Bharat Mataki, Jai Godse Murdabad.
11:27But I'm sure Ratan Ji and Tuhin may not be able to say Godse Murdabad, but that's a separate issue.
11:32My point remains that when Rahul Gandhi, on the floor of the Parliament,
11:37tried to invoke Hindu philosophy in order to make a point in the debate that he was speaking for,
11:41when he tried to show the portrait of Lord Shiva,
11:44it was the BJP that lost it.
11:46It was the BJP that had a lot of problems with it.
11:48There are countless ancient temples in India of Lord Shiva that have an absolute state of ruins.
11:53If you want, I can list them out to you.
11:55But the government is not doing anything about that.
11:57All that the government wants to talk about is,
11:59has opposition leader A or B visited the Ranjan Bhumi temple in Ayodhya?
12:03When the Home Minister Ramit Shah himself has not visited even once,
12:07they are going to say that Rahul Gandhi or the Congress Party leaders don't ever visit a Ram temple.
12:12Again, Rahul Gandhi has visited a lot of Ram temples as he has visited a lot of Shiva temples.
12:17And that's the beauty of the Hindu faith that you can have multiple deities,
12:20you can have your adherence or following to one deity or to more of them.
12:25But that very diverse and pluralistic culture of the Hindu faith is something you can do.
12:29Is there a divide between devotees of Lord Ram and Lord Shiva,
12:32Lord Ram of North, Lord Shiva of South?
12:35Or is that a tactics or a ploy to create a North-South divide on this?
12:40Toohin Sina, Revant Reddy says BJP or Prime Minister Narendra Modi,
12:44they use slogans like Jai Shri Ram and not Har Har Mahadev
12:48because Lord Ram is the Lord of the North or words to that effect,
12:52merit in his Lord Shiva versus Lord Ram divide?
12:57Well, good evening Gauravs, good evening everybody.
12:59Since Gaurav, you yourself are a devout Hindu, you would agree with me,
13:04you would know when I say that Bhagawan Ram and Bhagawan Shiva
13:08are deeply interconnected in Hindu traditions, in devotional traditions and in scripture.
13:14And Bhagawan Ram himself was a worshipper of Shiva.
13:18So anybody who tries to say that, you know,
13:21we are worshippers of Bhagawan Ram and they are worshippers of Shiva,
13:25number one does either does not understand the Hindu religion at all
13:29or has vicious and malafide intent to divide Hindus.
13:34And so far as Revant Reddy is concerned, you know,
13:36only a few days back he had said Congress money,
13:39Muslim man, Muslim man, Congress.
13:40So I suspect the Congress party has vicious agenda over here to divide Hindus.
13:46Point number one.
13:47Point number two, you know,
13:48we have all seen Prime Minister Modi worshipping Bhagawan Shiva in Kashi,
13:53in Ujjain, in Kedarnath.
13:55So either they have, you know, either they are blind,
13:58either they don't have memory or once again, they are peddling agenda.
14:02But, you know, all this is coming,
14:04the sermonizing,
14:05this quantification is coming from a party whose leader on the eve of 2024 elections
14:11had candidly said,
14:17So, you know, the vicious agenda of the Congress party is there for everyone to see.
14:23And I think the Congress party should be the last party to lecture Hindus,
14:27that same party which you, like rightly mentioned,
14:30when they were in government in 2005,
14:32they had filed an affidavit in the Supreme Court,
14:34challenging the existence of Bhagawan Ra.
14:36The same people who had politically scored.
14:38Sir, you referred to some of these images,
14:39and I want to talk about that in just a moment.
14:42But, Ratan Sharada, before I come to you,
14:44Nikhil Jain, you wanted to respond to that particular point
14:47that Tuhin Sinha had raised.
14:49You raised your hand, sir, respond.
14:51Thank you so much.
14:53Our ladai shakti se hai, Rahul Gandhi said that invoking Hindu philosophy
14:57in context of the fact that our ladai ush shakti, ush power se hai,
15:02that the BJP has captured the institutions of the Indian state,
15:06and it's not just the political system anymore.
15:08He was talking about what we are seeing right now with the election commissioner,
15:11the chief election commissioner acting for a particular party,
15:14and that particular party coming in their defense,
15:15the party being the BJP.
15:17So far as the affidavit is concerned,
15:18that was given by the Archaeological Survey of India,
15:21talking about the fact that they do not have in their presence
15:23any archaeological evidence to prove the happenings of a particular manuscript.
15:28Now, what do you want the ESI to do?
15:30Do you want them to lie in court?
15:31Of course, in due time, archaeological evidence would be found.
15:34But until that point of time, archaeological evidence was not found.
15:38You can't fault the Congress party for it.
15:40Congress party never gave an affidavit.
15:41It was some person who went to the court challenging and talking about the existence of Lord Ram.
15:46I don't even understand why such a petition was needed,
15:49why such a petition was entuked.
15:50Sir, let me tell you the historical context.
15:52You know, you may not be aware.
15:54There was this entire controversy around the Ram Setu
15:57and the dredging project around Ram Setu.
16:01But that's a debate for another time.
16:04The concept, the question is,
16:06can anybody in Bharatwalsh say that there is no evidence of existence of Maryada Purushottam Shri Ram?
16:14How can that even be said in Bharat?
16:17But be that as it may,
16:18Ratan Sharda, Europeans,
16:20Europeans had peddled this bogey about Aryan invasion.
16:25Europeans wanted to divide and rule.
16:27So, this German linguist Max Müller in the 19th century
16:30had this bogey about Indo-Aryan invasion some 3-4 thousand years ago.
16:34And that theory has systematically been debunked.
16:38Is it now being resurrected for political gains, sir?
16:42Aryans versus Dravidians?
16:44Gaurav, I think this kind of statement show
16:48that Congress has not risen over the divisive politics.
16:51And they want to use every kind of division that is possible.
16:54And they will go to any extent.
16:58Now, for example,
16:58they talked about Dravidians.
17:01It shows their Hino mind,
17:04Hindus in name only.
17:05They don't understand Hindu philosophy.
17:07They don't understand Hindu divinity,
17:09sense of divinity.
17:11See,
17:12he talked about,
17:13I just heard he talked about Dravidians
17:15believe in Shiva.
17:17Does he know that Dravidians
17:18actually don't like Shiva?
17:20They only want to worship his son,
17:22Karthikeya,
17:23but not worship others.
17:24So,
17:25this is a very strange kind of anomaly.
17:27Here comes Mr. Jain,
17:28who doesn't,
17:29just goes down the petty line
17:30of equating Kodse with Bhagwans.
17:33Nobody did it.
17:34And thirdly,
17:35now,
17:35neither Ram is north,
17:37nor Shiva is south.
17:38As he has pointed out,
17:40we have various temples,
17:43huge temples in north of Shiva.
17:45There are huge temples of Rama in south.
17:48What is Dhanushu Kodi?
17:50And what is the Bhagwan Paddanapha Swami?
17:53Does he know that Ram and Krishna
17:55are supposed to be avatars of Vishnu?
17:57And what is Paddanapha Swami?
17:59What is Tirupati?
18:00They are Vishnu's abodes.
18:01Are you saying that
18:02they don't belong to south?
18:04And Shankaracharya
18:07built four madhams.
18:08The four madhams in four corners of Bharat.
18:11South,
18:12it was Rameshwaram.
18:13West,
18:13it was Krishna.
18:15East,
18:15it was Puri.
18:17And north was Kedhar.
18:20And none of them is Ram.
18:22So,
18:23this strange behavior
18:24only shows the total bankruptcy of mindset.
18:27We have,
18:27well,
18:28Jyotirlingas,
18:28are they divided in terms of south?
18:31We have 51 Shakti Peets.
18:32They have not even talked about Devi.
18:34So,
18:34what happens to Ma Meenakshi?
18:36Where does she go?
18:37So,
18:38whether they're prosperous,
18:39very rich,
18:40wealthy,
18:41Meenakshi Amman is the goddess,
18:43or whether some tribal village of Shakti Peetha,
18:47Durga is something different.
18:48These people don't understand.
18:49See,
18:49we look at Bhagawan
18:51in manifestation of man,
18:53woman,
18:54trinity.
18:54we look at them into various forms,
18:57whether there is Narasimha,
18:59whether it is Ram,
19:00or Krishna,
19:01or Durga.
19:02It is our way of looking at Bhagawan.
19:04We don't say Bhagawan made us.
19:05We say we were made by Bhagawan,
19:07but we look at Bhagawan,
19:09Sir,
19:09I am to say,
19:09there is no issue at all.
19:13True?
19:14True?
19:15So,
19:16you know,
19:16Nikhil Jain,
19:17Congress State President,
19:19Mahesh Kumar Gowda,
19:20you know,
19:21he said,
19:22why should
19:24Revant Reddy apologize,
19:26or watch that effect,
19:27100% I am defending Revant Reddy,
19:29look,
19:30Ram wears a lot of ornaments,
19:33he looks rich,
19:34Shiva with no clothes,
19:36physically looks very poor,
19:37there is a difference.
19:39Sir,
19:39the Congress appears to be doubling down,
19:41on this,
19:42Lord Ram belongs to the rich,
19:44Lord Shiva belongs to the poor,
19:46where does this even come in?
19:49First of all,
19:50I would like to mark my objection,
19:51on the fact that I never equated,
19:53God say with God,
19:54I don't know how Mr. Shada heard,
19:55what I was saying,
19:56it is people related to the Sangh Parivar,
19:58who were making,
19:59mandirs for goat say,
20:00I always say goat say,
20:01I'm not saying,
20:02number one,
20:03number two,
20:04Mr. Shada also talks about,
20:06the fact that,
20:06in the Hindu philosophy,
20:07we believe that God is within,
20:09each of us,
20:11and when a couple of days ago,
20:13there was an attempted rape,
20:14on a woman,
20:15for just being out,
20:16late in night,
20:17it was BJP members,
20:18of legislative assembly,
20:20who were defending,
20:20the action of the attempted rapist,
20:22that it is perfectly fine,
20:24is that not an insult,
20:25to Madhurga,
20:26and again,
20:27I'd go back to my simple point,
20:28that there are countless Shiva temples,
20:30across the country,
20:32ancient temples,
20:32that are lying in ruins,
20:33the government has no plan,
20:35to talk about that.
20:36people across the country,
20:38Sir,
20:38that is the point,
20:39I'm trying to make,
20:40where does this rich and poor divide,
20:42come in,
20:43Sir,
20:44I asked you a very specific question,
20:46on what Mahesh Kumar Gaud said,
20:49Ravish,
20:49look at Lord Ram,
20:50he wears a lot of ornaments,
20:51he's the lord of the rich,
20:53Shiva physically looks poor,
20:55Sir,
20:55how does this difference come,
20:57Lord Ram is lord of the rich,
20:59Lord Shiva is lord of the poor,
21:01Congress appears to be,
21:02doubling down on this,
21:03No,
21:04no Gaurav,
21:04I'm sure that's the personal opinion,
21:05of the individual concerned,
21:06that is certainly not a view,
21:07of the Congress party,
21:08each Hindu,
21:09each individual,
21:10is free to,
21:11interpret their religion,
21:12their deities,
21:13their faith,
21:14in the manner that they do,
21:15and that's the beauty of the faith,
21:16I don't agree,
21:17Chief Minister of the State,
21:18Party President of the State,
21:19if they say something like this,
21:20you are saying,
21:21it's their personal opinion,
21:22fair enough,
21:24fair enough,
21:24if that is your point,
21:25but Tuhin Sinha,
21:27Tuhin Sinha,
21:28Congress MP,
21:29Kiran Kumar Reddy,
21:30he also said,
21:31there is,
21:32there is no such thing as,
21:33Ravant Reddy,
21:35bifurcating Hinduism,
21:37or gods,
21:37he only said this,
21:38regarding the,
21:40BJP mindset,
21:41it is the BJP mindset,
21:43according to him,
21:44that does not want to see,
21:46all gods,
21:47and all devotees,
21:48as equals,
21:50you know,
21:50he is saying that,
21:51BJP only does politics,
21:52in the name of Lord Ram,
21:55and nothing,
21:56in the name of Lord Shiva,
21:57you also heard Nikhil Jain say,
21:59look at so many,
22:00Bhagawan Shiv temples,
22:01according to him,
22:02lying in ruins,
22:04First of all,
22:05you know,
22:06I need to take this,
22:0730 seconds,
22:07to call out Nikhil Jain's bluff,
22:10show after show,
22:11when he says that in 2007,
22:13you know,
22:13it was the,
22:13it was the ASI,
22:15which had filed that affidavit,
22:17you know,
22:17in 2003,
22:18there is a detailed report,
22:20by ASI,
22:22which says that the,
22:23that there is,
22:23there is evidence,
22:25of a,
22:25of a pre-existing,
22:27you know,
22:29temple,
22:29or a pre-existing body,
22:32at the site,
22:32at the disputed site,
22:33in Ayodhya,
22:34which,
22:35by in all likelihood,
22:36seems to be that of a,
22:39seems to be,
22:40similar to Hindu temples,
22:42in the north,
22:43so if in 2007,
22:44you know,
22:45the ASI had filed that affidavit,
22:47it was clearly,
22:47the UPA,
22:48UPA government,
22:49which was hiding behind,
22:51ASI,
22:52you need to refer,
22:52to the 2003,
22:53detailed report of ASI,
22:55point number two,
22:56you know,
22:56when you talk about,
22:57when you accuse us,
22:58of dividing Hindu gods,
22:59you know,
22:59whether it is,
23:00it is Varanasi,
23:02the abode of,
23:03Bhagwan Shiva,
23:05whether it is Ayodhya,
23:06the abode of Bhagwan Ram,
23:07or whether it is Mathura,
23:09the abode of Krishna,
23:12all of them,
23:13have got equal attention,
23:15from our government,
23:17you know,
23:17you see,
23:18what you see,
23:18what you are witnessing,
23:19right now,
23:20in these three places,
23:21is the revival,
23:22of the concept,
23:23of temple economy,
23:24the same temple cities,
23:26which had repeatedly,
23:27been ignored,
23:28by the congress government,
23:29where there was no sanitation,
23:31where the streets,
23:32were narrow,
23:32you see the revolution,
23:34and also,
23:34Kamakhya temple,
23:35by the way,
23:36in the northeast,
23:37where we are giving,
23:38equal importance,
23:39to the Kamakhya temple,
23:41so you know,
23:42for congress,
23:42to segregate,
23:43between gods,
23:45shows a very,
23:46low life mentality,
23:47and this is not,
23:48the first time,
23:48they have tried,
23:49to divide the society,
23:50you know,
23:50in something as serious,
23:52as Agni Veer's team,
23:54in the midst of 2024,
23:56you know,
23:56what Rahul Gandhi,
23:57had said,
23:58he had said,
23:59Agni Veer,
24:00basically,
24:00is meant to ensure,
24:02that people,
24:02from upper caste,
24:03become officers,
24:04in the army,
24:05and those from,
24:06lower caste,
24:07go on to become,
24:07Shaheeds,
24:08so if this is,
24:09the mentality,
24:10of the congress party,
24:11to divide the people,
24:12of this country,
24:13at every step,
24:14and of course,
24:14I'll come to the divide,
24:16I'll come to the divide,
24:17bit in just a bit,
24:19you know,
24:19Ratan Sharada,
24:20congress president,
24:21Mallikarjun Kharge,
24:22and I want to draw,
24:23and I want to draw,
24:23your attention,
24:24to a statement,
24:25that was made,
24:26in I think,
24:27early May,
24:27I think,
24:27first of May 2024,
24:29on congress candidate,
24:31Shiv Kumar Daharya,
24:32he said,
24:33he could give,
24:34a tough fight,
24:34to Lord Ram,
24:35because he is Shiv,
24:37or words to that effect,
24:39sir,
24:39you heard that statement,
24:40you heard,
24:41Revant Reddy's statement,
24:42how would you,
24:43see these statements,
24:44you know,
24:45is this just,
24:46political rhetoric,
24:48political leaders,
24:50make statements,
24:51to reach out,
24:51to particular,
24:53constituencies,
24:54or,
24:55is there a,
24:56deeper,
24:57intention here,
24:59see the intentions,
25:00are very clear,
25:01they have no faith,
25:02in any Bhagawan,
25:03they only want to,
25:04divide Hindus,
25:05into various,
25:06faiths and all,
25:07which is not possible,
25:08we have south,
25:09full of Shiva,
25:10Shiva Rama,
25:11we have named,
25:12Shiva Rama,
25:13we have named,
25:14Shiva Rama Krishna,
25:15we have named,
25:15Rama Krishna,
25:16we have named Shiva,
25:17so where is the difference,
25:19these names are,
25:20in one particular,
25:21person's name,
25:22so there is no division,
25:23and they talk of poor,
25:24Raja,
25:25Raja Chola,
25:26built up magnificent,
25:27Brihadeshwar temple,
25:29one of the most,
25:30magnificent temple,
25:30does it show poverty,
25:31of Bhagawan Shiva,
25:32it is Vairagya,
25:34they don't even understand,
25:35Bhagawan Shiva,
25:36represents the Vairagya,
25:37so any king,
25:38who worships,
25:40whether it's,
25:41Padmanabha Swami,
25:42or whether it's Shiva,
25:43he says,
25:44I am only a servant,
25:45of the God,
25:46and I am doing,
25:47for the God,
25:47there is no personal ego,
25:49there is no personal,
25:50ownership of any,
25:51wealth that is created,
25:52by the king,
25:53that they will never understand,
25:55and you see,
25:56this Jai Shri Ram,
25:57was a battle cry,
25:59for revival,
25:59of Hindu dharma,
26:00there is no doubt,
26:00but what does ASI do,
26:02ASI does not give certificate,
26:04for existence,
26:05of Ram or Krishna,
26:07ASI only looks,
26:08at the buildings,
26:09and tells you,
26:095000 years old,
26:13this is what ASI,
26:14does the government,
26:15doesn't know,
26:16so if it doesn't know,
26:17why comes on the rebate,
26:18and when you say,
26:20we are devotees,
26:21of Bhagawan,
26:22Shiva,
26:23why they don't,
26:24support Gyan Vyapi,
26:25these people,
26:25made joke of Gyan Vyapi,
26:27fountain hai,
26:28falana hai,
26:29dimkana hai,
26:30for which a BJP spokesman,
26:31today is facing,
26:32life threat,
26:32and they are telling us,
26:33they are bhakti,
26:34or Bhagawan Shiv,
26:35they can't even,
26:35support Gyan Vyapi,
26:37so all this,
26:37Tamasha has nothing,
26:38to do with their faith,
26:39it is a Tamasha,
26:40only to divide people,
26:41you are saying,
26:42that this is all Tamasha,
26:46okay,
26:46Nikhil Jain,
26:48respond,
26:48to,
26:49those who oppose,
26:51Revant Reddy's statements,
26:52or congress party's statement,
26:54they say,
26:54there is a pattern,
26:55to these statements,
26:56you know that 2007,
26:57statement of UPA affidavit,
26:59in supreme court,
27:00no historical evidence,
27:01establishing,
27:02existence of Lord Ram,
27:03or Ramayana characters,
27:05the point that you raised,
27:07that opposition has been raising,
27:08this Rahul Gandhi,
27:09not visiting the Divya Bhavya,
27:10Ram temple,
27:12or,
27:13you know if you look at,
27:15Sanatana dharm,
27:16the Char Dham Yatra,
27:18or the Bara Jotirling,
27:20the 12 Jotirlings,
27:21the 51 Shakti Pete,
27:22they unite our country,
27:24in one civilizational bond,
27:27is there an attempt,
27:28to create a divide sir,
27:31Somnath,
27:31Somnath,
27:32is the richest god,
27:33in the country,
27:35Bhagawan Somnath,
27:36is the most rich temple today,
27:38so,
27:39is it a,
27:39it is,
27:40it is the,
27:41Bhagawan is poor,
27:41Bhagawan sir,
27:42never poor,
27:43Bhagawans don't need anything,
27:44Bhagawan sir,
27:45above all that,
27:46Bhagawan give us,
27:47Sir Nikhil Jai,
27:49responding to you,
27:51Nikhil go ahead sir,
27:52thank you so much,
27:53yeah,
27:53so,
27:54Tugheem first of all,
27:55tried to make out,
27:56that it was,
27:57UK government,
27:58that changed the stance,
27:58of the ASI,
27:59on the archaeological evidence,
28:01concerning Lord Ram,
28:022003 report,
28:03that he points out to,
28:04is about the archaeological,
28:05finds in a particular temple,
28:072007 affidavit,
28:08concerns archaeological evidence,
28:10proving the existence,
28:11or not of a particular detail,
28:12those are two very different things,
28:14and again,
28:14I will reiterate,
28:15Lord Ram,
28:16Lord Shiv,
28:17and all the other deities,
28:18of the Hindu faith,
28:18and other faiths,
28:19are objects of faith,
28:21you don't question,
28:23or find,
28:23or try to find,
28:24scientific,
28:25historical,
28:25or archaeological evidence,
28:26of objects of faith,
28:27people believe that,
28:29you don't need to go,
28:30and prove,
28:31that in a court of law,
28:32or,
28:32you know,
28:33to an archaeological body,
28:34and an archaeological body,
28:35on an affidavit,
28:36will only give,
28:37what it has,
28:37number one,
28:38number two,
28:39he talks about,
28:40how temples are,
28:41you know,
28:41how the Modi government,
28:42is giving a push,
28:43to the temple economy,
28:43and honestly,
28:44as somebody,
28:45who respects all religions,
28:46and the Hindu faith,
28:47I feel,
28:47this is a little bit,
28:48of a problematic statement,
28:50that the moment,
28:50you talk about a temple,
28:51you have to include,
28:52the word economy,
28:53in it,
28:53temples are objects,
28:54of devotion,
28:56and not objects,
28:57of mere economy,
28:58you talk about,
28:58widening of streets,
28:59in the Kashi corridor,
29:01while you were,
29:01widening streets,
29:02in order to create,
29:03a temple economy,
29:04so to say,
29:04you went around,
29:05demolishing temples,
29:06that were hundreds of years old,
29:08and that did not,
29:09deter your Hindu faith,
29:10you talk about,
29:10how a particular statement,
29:11was made,
29:12by Mr. Khadge,
29:13using a political rhetoric,
29:14with Lord Ram,
29:15and Lord Shiv,
29:16you don't talk about,
29:17the fact that,
29:17when the Chhattisgarh,
29:18candidate of Karvad,
29:20his name was,
29:21Mohammed Akbar,
29:22your chief minister,
29:23even then,
29:23went around,
29:24saying,
29:27and all sorts,
29:29of communal nonsense,
29:30again,
29:31point remains simple,
29:32you may want to go back,
29:35you may want to go back,
29:37to our civilizational history,
29:39and see temples,
29:40not just as places of worship,
29:43but places of economy,
29:45places of education,
29:46and that's the point,
29:47that is being made,
29:49temples in Bharat,
29:50Varsh,
29:51were much more,
29:52than just places of devotion,
29:54and Ratan Sharda,
29:55wants to come in on that,
29:56now very point,
29:57Gaurav,
29:58I appreciate your point,
29:59that is the problem,
30:01that we had,
30:01mandins were the center,
30:03of not just faith,
30:04they were centers of culture,
30:05they were center of education,
30:07they were center of industry,
30:08all the ancient,
30:10ancient cities,
30:11there are seven,
30:12sacred puris,
30:13all over Bharat,
30:14which we talk about,
30:16and those,
30:16sacred temples,
30:18were also industrial centers,
30:19that is why,
30:19none of them collapsed,
30:21when world over,
30:22the industrial cities collapsed,
30:23when the wealthy cities collapsed,
30:24in Bharat,
30:25for thousands of years,
30:27these,
30:27these temple towns,
30:28have become,
30:29had become the center,
30:30of cultural training,
30:32education,
30:32science,
30:33technology,
30:33everything,
30:34and the mandir,
30:35supported all that finance,
30:36and but because,
30:38we,
30:38the secularists,
30:39played with the mandirs,
30:40they took away the wealth,
30:42they took away the land,
30:43now mandirs are being amphibald,
30:44they can't be used,
30:45for any purpose,
30:46and when these are strengthened,
30:48the entire samaj,
30:49gets strengthened,
30:49you can see,
30:50across Bharat,
30:51this wave of devotion,
30:52this wave of faith,
30:53which you talk about,
30:54it's not degrading,
30:56any center,
30:56because that power,
30:58has to come back,
30:58to the mandirs,
30:59which these people hate,
31:01because these people,
31:02Sir Nikhil Jain,
31:03wants to come in,
31:03and respond,
31:04before I bring in,
31:04Thuheen Sinha,
31:05for his closing comments,
31:06Nikhil Jain,
31:06quickly respond sir,
31:09I don't understand,
31:09this point Mr. Shahada,
31:10is making about,
31:11how seculars,
31:12took away the wealth,
31:13and importance of tempus,
31:14Mr. Shahada please,
31:15Mr. Shahada please,
31:16Mr. Shahada please,
31:17you know,
31:18Mr. Shahada,
31:19I was not interjecting,
31:20when you were speaking,
31:22I was not,
31:22I was not interjecting,
31:24can you please,
31:25can you please,
31:25can you please,
31:27allow me to respond,
31:29Mr. Shahada,
31:30you are making a statement,
31:31and running away,
31:32that seculars,
31:33took away the wealth,
31:33of temples,
31:34I am sure,
31:35when you say seculars,
31:37you mean,
31:37the kind of secular governments,
31:39Mr. Shahada,
31:39you can't keep on interjecting,
31:41you can't keep on interjecting,
31:43you can't keep on interjecting,
31:44in the middle of summer,
31:45very well,
31:46very well,
31:46you should have raised your voice,
31:47then you should have gone,
31:48to the Supreme Court,
31:49then can I please,
31:49now answer,
31:52how do I respond,
31:53with this bickering match,
31:54when every word of mine,
31:55is being interjected,
31:55by Mr. Shahada,
31:56the point that I am trying,
31:57to make here is,
31:58Mr. Shahada says,
31:59that seculars,
31:59stole away the wealth,
32:00of the temples,
32:01seculars stole away,
32:02the wealth of the temples,
32:03I am assuming,
32:03he means the congress governments,
32:04that followed after independence,
32:06nobody stole the wealth,
32:07of the temples,
32:07other than the invaders,
32:08that came in,
32:09and perhaps also,
32:10also the Brits,
32:11and so far as temples,
32:12being centers of culture,
32:13economy,
32:14trade,
32:14industry,
32:14and all of that is concerned,
32:15that is of a time,
32:16that was three centuries ago,
32:17today you have industrial hubs,
32:19you have ports,
32:20the world has changed,
32:21today temples are objects,
32:22of devotion,
32:22they are not the political,
32:24and cultural center,
32:25they may be the cultural center,
32:27but they are certainly,
32:28not the political,
32:28and economic center,
32:29of any city,
32:30or any region,
32:31they may be,
32:32they are very important,
32:32there is a temple economy,
32:34and since I have only,
32:3530 seconds left,
32:35on this part of the show,
32:37sir temple economy,
32:38is something,
32:38which is very interesting,
32:40there is temple tourism,
32:41temple economy,
32:42but be that as it may,
32:43to in Sina,
32:45why does the BJP,
32:46see this as,
32:48multiple,
32:49attempts being made,
32:50at divide and rule,
32:51whether it is,
32:52north, south, east, west,
32:53men, women,
32:54age divide,
32:55gen Z versus,
32:56gen this,
32:57gen that,
32:58is this,
33:00an effort to create,
33:01more fissures in society,
33:03as you claim sir,
33:04well you know,
33:05to be very,
33:07frank and blunt,
33:08the congress party,
33:09is the modern day,
33:10Muslim league,
33:10with the temperament,
33:11and mindset,
33:12of the Britishers,
33:13so you know,
33:13you have the divide and rule,
33:15policy coming,
33:15coming in also,
33:16and why I say Muslim league,
33:17because he is the same man,
33:19I mean,
33:19Rivan Tretti is the first,
33:20same man,
33:20who has openly said,
33:21that congress is a party,
33:23of Muslims,
33:24but point is,
33:25let me make another point,
33:26we Satishan,
33:27please don't Bajan,
33:28now we Satishan,
33:29the new Kerala CM,
33:30wanted to visit a temple,
33:32a certain temple,
33:33in Karnataka,
33:33which he had been visiting,
33:34for the last 37 years,
33:36in the end of July,
33:37you know,
33:37almost all senior leaders,
33:39of congress party,
33:41in Kerala,
33:41mocked him,
33:42till he put his foot down,
33:43and said no,
33:44nothing doing,
33:45I will visit that temple,
33:46it's about my way,
33:47this is the degradation,
33:49this is the moral degradation,
33:50and deprivation,
33:51of the congress party,
33:53today,
33:53this is a fight,
33:55this is a fight,
33:56which is only set,
33:57to escalate,
33:58in the days ahead,
33:59I've run out of time,
34:00on this part,
34:00of the debate,
34:01but I want to thank,
34:02all our guests,
34:02for joining me,
34:04there clearly,
34:05when it comes,
34:06to the Sanatana dharma,
34:07it actually unites,
34:09it does not divide,
34:10and least of all,
34:12devotees of Lord Ram,
34:13and Lord Shiv,
34:14because,
34:15when you follow,
34:16your scriptures,
34:17or when you hear,
34:18your stories,
34:19Lord Ram,
34:20at Rameshwaram,
34:21spoke of Lord Shiv,
34:23he built,
34:24a Shivling,
34:25and he prayed there,
34:27Ram,
34:27K,
34:28Ishwar,
34:29and then,
34:29the stories,
34:30we've also heard,
34:31say,
34:32Lord Shiv,
34:32I've always said,
34:33Ram,
34:34Hi Ishwar,
34:34Rameshwaram,
34:35so for both,
34:36for devotees,
34:38there was no difference,
34:39not for the gods,
34:41not for the devotees,
34:42clearly,
34:43any attempt,
34:44to create a divide,
34:45would only be,
34:46extremely unfortunate,
34:48but I now,
34:48want to move forward,
34:49to the next big story,
34:50we're tracking here,
34:51on India today,
34:52and that's,
34:52that showdown,
34:53over the FCRA,
34:55Foreign Contribution Regulation,
34:56Amendment Bill,
34:582026,
34:59because that fight,
34:59has intensified,
35:01there was a crucial meeting,
35:01of the JPC,
35:02Joint Parliamentary Committee,
35:04that's examining,
35:04that bill,
35:05and that meeting,
35:06was held today,
35:07officials from,
35:07Ministry of Home Affairs,
35:08officials from,
35:09Ministry of Law and Justice,
35:10they briefed the panel,
35:12clause by clause,
35:13explaining,
35:14their rationale,
35:16behind,
35:16the proposed changes,
35:18and the government,
35:19stated objective,
35:20behind the amendment,
35:21but the bill,
35:22is facing,
35:22a very strong opposition,
35:24not just from,
35:26political leaders,
35:27but also,
35:28from certain,
35:29interest groups,
35:30who feel,
35:31that this bill,
35:32may be used,
35:32to target them,
35:34of course,
35:34there's also,
35:34Congress party,
35:36member of parliament,
35:37from Tura,
35:38from Meghalai,
35:39Saling Sangma,
35:40Saling Sangma,
35:41is Congress MP,
35:42from Tura,
35:43he's confirmed,
35:44that he'd reached out,
35:45to delegates,
35:46and representatives,
35:47from countries,
35:48like the United States,
35:49South Korea,
35:50Australia,
35:51England,
35:52Mexico,
35:53African countries,
35:55he asked them,
35:56to pray,
35:58or appeal,
35:59to the Indian government,
36:00or words to that effect,
36:01over the,
36:02S3RA amendment bill,
36:04Saling Sangma,
36:04argued,
36:05that the proposed changes,
36:06could affect institutions,
36:08including,
36:09churches,
36:10schools,
36:11hospitals,
36:12welfare organizations,
36:13that depend on,
36:14foreign contribution,
36:15he's argued,
36:16that this bill,
36:17is draconian,
36:18the proposed legislation,
36:20he says is draconian,
36:21he's called for the concerns,
36:23of Meghalai,
36:24and northeast,
36:25to be addressed,
36:25effectively,
36:26and,
36:27he joins me,
36:28on this broadcast,
36:29Saling Sangma,
36:30welcome,
36:31sir,
36:32why did you reach out,
36:33to foreign individuals,
36:34and entities,
36:35on the FCRA amendment bill,
36:37after all,
36:38what can,
36:38anybody in the US,
36:40or South Korea,
36:40or Australia,
36:41or England,
36:42and other places,
36:43what can they do,
36:44about,
36:45a proposed Indian law,
36:46no sir,
36:49no actually,
36:50I have not,
36:51approached anybody,
36:52I have appealed,
36:53to few of the,
36:55parliamentarians,
36:55and a few of the leaders,
36:57which we have met,
36:58in,
36:59some part of the,
37:01you know,
37:01other,
37:02area,
37:04I have appealed,
37:05them to pray,
37:07okay,
37:08appealed them,
37:08to at least,
37:09pray for the peace,
37:11so that,
37:12hello,
37:13have you gone,
37:14I want to understand,
37:15why do you want,
37:15foreigners to pray,
37:18okay,
37:19no,
37:19sir,
37:20why,
37:20if this bill,
37:21is being examined,
37:22by the 31 member,
37:23JPC,
37:24there was a meeting,
37:24that was held today,
37:26any issue,
37:26you may have,
37:27with this bill,
37:27if it's draconian,
37:29if you find,
37:29some clauses,
37:30which are unacceptable,
37:31sir,
37:31it has to be sorted out,
37:32within a country,
37:33why should foreigners,
37:34or why should you,
37:35expect foreigners,
37:36to pray,
37:39I have appealed,
37:40them to pray,
37:41for the people of India,
37:43who are living in India,
37:44now,
37:44have you gone,
37:45through the,
37:46you know,
37:46detail about the FCRA,
37:48now,
37:49this FCRA,
37:50FCRA is a dangerous,
37:52attack on the minority,
37:53and the religious institutions,
37:55which serve the majority,
37:56of the,
37:58you know,
37:58people in India,
38:00okay,
38:01now,
38:01we were scared,
38:03that,
38:03that dim suggestion,
38:04for example,
38:05section 16A3,
38:085,
38:08if the organization,
38:10fails to renew,
38:11its FCRA licenses,
38:12if the,
38:13you know,
38:13renewal is delayed,
38:15or if the government,
38:16arbitrarily,
38:17refused to renew,
38:18the organization,
38:19automatically,
38:20you know,
38:21cease to access,
38:22it will,
38:23you know,
38:23it will lose,
38:24its right,
38:25and protection,
38:26no notice,
38:28no,
38:29sir,
38:29then,
38:30again,
38:31all these points,
38:32that you are raising,
38:33raise them in the JPC,
38:34raise them in,
38:35parliament,
38:36why,
38:36reach out,
38:37to the United States,
38:38or Mexico,
38:38why do you want,
38:39their prayers for you,
38:40sir,
38:44no,
38:45no,
38:45no,
38:45no,
38:45I,
38:46I am,
38:47we,
38:47we are asking,
38:49them to pray,
38:51you see,
38:55so that we will get the strength,
38:57and then,
38:57you know,
38:58no,
38:58sir,
38:59you are a member of parliament,
39:08why would you reach out to foreign powers on a domestic Indian issue?
39:13Why seek foreign interference in a matter that is being debated in parliament currently in JPC?
39:23No, no, no.
39:24Tell me one thing.
39:25Why do we have the international relationship?
39:28No, why do we have the international relationship especially?
39:30You talk about the BRICS.
39:31Why the Prime Minister has brought the BRICS to India?
39:35Tell me one thing.
39:36Why do we have the G20?
39:39He's not asking BRICS leaders to pray in India.
39:42He's not asking BRICS leaders to pray for India, sir.
39:45You know, your request for prayer,
39:49you know, does that not amount to seeking direct foreign interference
39:53in an internal Indian affair, sir?
39:59No, no, no, no.
40:00I'm not here.
40:00I'm not telling them to interfere.
40:02I'm not telling them to interfere here also.
40:04I'm appealing them to pray so that we will have a peace.
40:09Nothing more than that.
40:11I'm not appealing them to intervene.
40:13I'm not appealing them to intervene regarding the, regarding the, you know, regarding making up the bill.
40:19I'm appealing them to pray for us.
40:21Nothing more than that.
40:23Why do you need foreigners to pray for you is the question I'm asking you, sir.
40:27I'm unable to understand if you have any issue with any clause of the FCRA bill.
40:32Sir, you are a member of parliament.
40:33You don't have to, you know, seek foreigners' interference, whatever clause you may have an issue with.
40:40Government has a stated position.
40:42They want to crack down on illegal foreign funding.
40:45They want to ensure if foreign funding is coming into India for X purpose, it should be used for X
40:49and not be diverted to Y.
40:51Whether government actions are legitimate or not can be discussed, debated, fought out in parliament or through courts of law.
41:00Why this opposition or seeking foreign prayers, that what's happening in India is happening in us in India?
41:11Why?
41:12Why?
41:12You have not seen how our fundamental right has been discriminated?
41:17How?
41:17You have not seen how the people, you know, SESD are being discriminated?
41:21What the hell are you talking about, man?
41:23How?
41:23You don't know that.
41:23You have not seen that one?
41:26I fail to understand.
41:27No, sir, please explain to me.
41:29Do you have no trust in institutions in India?
41:33You have no trust in the parliament of India of which you are a member of parliament, sir?
41:38You belong to the principal opposition party.
41:40You have no faith in parliament.
41:42You have no faith in JPC.
41:43You have no faith in courts of law?
41:48What?
41:49What?
41:50Have you not seen?
41:51Have you not seen that?
41:53How this?
41:54How this?
41:55How this?
41:55How this?
41:56I am a member of parliament.
41:58I know that one.
41:58Yes.
41:59How this election commission, how this election commission is trying to discriminate?
42:03How this election commission is...
42:04Sir, then go to court.
42:05Sir, you can go to court.
42:07If there is a problem, you go to court.
42:09If there is a problem, you raise it in parliament.
42:12You raise it in media.
42:13You are sitting on television talking about what are the issues you have, you know, what
42:18are the clauses you have an issue with?
42:20Thrash it out internally.
42:22Why would you reach out to foreign powers, please pray for us, please pray for us.
42:26Why do you want foreigners to pray for you in an internal affair of India?
42:32I am also concerned.
42:33I am just asking them to pray because our fundamental duties and the rights are being disturbed.
42:40God, what the hell you are talking about?
42:42Nothing wrong with the prayer.
42:43God was taught of law in India, sir.
42:44Christians pray for peace.
42:48Sir, explain to me, your political opponents are saying, you literally seem to be wanting foreign intervention in Indian internal
42:56affairs.
42:57You want to reach out to some foreigners saying, we have to save our words to that effect.
43:01We pray for you.
43:02Why would you want to do that?
43:03What do you have to say on that, sir?
43:08I am not begging for foreign help.
43:10I am asking them to pray.
43:11What is wrong with the prayer?
43:14Sir, tell me this, what part of this bill, what part of the bill do you find so problematic
43:20that you now require foreigners in different parts of the world to pray for you, sir?
43:30Now, look at 16A, 3, cross, cross 3 and then 6.
43:37Okay, administrator assets without judicial override.
43:43So, tell me this, tell me this, you've raised this demand, you have an issue with this bill, there's a
43:49meeting of the JPC that is happening,
43:51raise it there, deliberate upon this, everybody can sit together, put their heads together, parliament will put their heads together
43:59and decide what is best for the people of this country.
44:01After all, that is what you do as lawmakers of this country.
44:05Why would any lawmaker, you know, we've suffered in history, we've seen our people going overseas historically,
44:11seeking help and we've seen what happened to our country.
44:14Why are you jumping the gun before the parliament has sorted this issue out?
44:20We are, we are, we have made our, our, our, our parliamentarian, we have made, we have made, we have
44:28asked.
44:30Okay, but that meeting is still going on.
44:33There was a JPC, uh, MHA briefed you, law and justice ministry, uh, officials briefed.
44:38If there are contentions, you raise it once again internally, debated on the floor of the house.
44:43Are you in principle opposed to certain clauses of this bill?
44:46Or are you opposed to the entire FCRA amendment bill 2026?
44:50Or you want to specifically talk about certain clauses that need to be either watered down or removed, sir?
44:59Array, let me tell you amendment, amendment after amendment is going on, nothing wrong with that.
45:04We are not against anybody.
45:05We are just afraid, we are just afraid that the schools, the colleges and the institutions run by some religious
45:14institutions might be,
45:16sis, this is what we are appealing to the government of India.
45:20What is wrong to, what is wrong to appeal, what is wrong to appeal to the, you know?
45:27Because the law existed even earlier, there is a certain classification that is now being made with the clarification that
45:35there will be no change to that religious institution.
45:39Only paperwork has to be complied with.
45:43Paperwork will need to be complied with.
45:45And if you think there is something that is draconian about it, sir, you can raise it in parliament.
45:49Instead of praying outside, you know, whatever you may have prayed for, world peace.
45:55I want to understand from you, sir.
45:57Is it right to expect foreign entities to have a say in India's internal affairs?
46:04You want them to start meddling into our affairs?
46:06FCRA bill is an Indian internal affair.
46:09If you don't like it, oppose it.
46:11Oppose it tooth and nail.
46:12But why do you want foreigners?
46:14You know, you give them one inch.
46:17Sir, we have been ruled by invaders for 800 years and then another 200 years.
46:21Don't let that history repeat itself, sir.
46:24Anything in India has to be sorted out internally, sir.
46:29Very much.
46:30But what is wrong to appeal for the pair?
46:33Sorry?
46:33Then why the hell you are asking for the BRICS to come?
46:35Why the hell you are asking for the G20 to come?
46:37We have the international relationship.
46:41Sir, BRICS is all about getting economic cooperation.
46:47BRICS is not about foreign interference in India's internal affairs
46:51or prayers from foreigners to make laws in India.
46:55Nobody would want any kind of foreign intervention whatsoever.
46:59As a country, as a people, as a civilization,
47:02we have suffered for a thousand years.
47:04You want history to repeat itself.
47:09No, no, no.
47:10It doesn't defy logic at all.
47:12Why?
47:12Atta, tell me one thing.
47:14Are we not asking any loan from the other country?
47:17Tell me.
47:19But are we giving away our sovereignty?
47:21Are we giving away our sovereignty for that?
47:23Are we getting foreigners to interfere in our internal affairs
47:25if we are seeking a loan?
47:27Or are we keeping and should we not all keep India first?
47:30Sir, I have run out of time on this part of the show.
47:32But this is a debate which we shall continue to have over the days and weeks ahead.
47:36Mr. Sangma for joining me here on India Today.
47:39Baloch Freedom Fighters have put out a video of a women's fighting unit,
47:44Baloch Liberation Force Women's Fighting Unit,
47:48taking on the Pakistan Army along that crucial China-Pakistan economic corridor.
47:53And that corridor is in global spotlight.
47:56The BLF has released this video showing the newly formed Karima Armed Assault Division or the KAAD,
48:03a women's combat unit which targeted a Pakistan Security Forces convoy
48:09on the China-Pakistan economic corridor.
48:11They claimed nine Pakistani army personnel, including two officers, were killed.
48:16This was a targeted attack on a Pakistan military garrison.
48:21When a QRT or a quick reaction force convoy came to assist them,
48:26these women were lying in wait.
48:28They were there in ambush.
48:30They targeted this unit.
48:32This happened in the Jawsak area of Turbat.
48:35And they released women commandos taking on the Pakistani security forces.
48:40What does this mean for the China-Pakistan economic corridor?
48:43My colleague Sandeep Unnithan joins me for more on this big story.
48:47Sandeep, does this indicate that Balochistan is virtually no longer in control of the Pakistani security forces?
48:56Well, Gaurav, Balochistan hasn't been in control of the Pakistani security forces for several months now.
49:01Every passing year has only increased their anxiety vis-a-vis Balochistan.
49:06And as the visuals show you, now the Baloch are rising up in revolt in numbers that we've not seen.
49:12Entire women's brigades now attacking convoys.
49:16This is the kind of warfare that Pakistan has not seen in a long time.
49:20And the Baloch seem to be waging a very clever economic battle on Pakistan.
49:26Now, Balochistan was seen as this huge province that Pakistan could exploit for its mineral resources.
49:32And most importantly, its access to the Arabian Sea and the CPEC.
49:36The CPEC passed through that.
49:38It culminated in Gwadar Port.
49:40All of that is in near collapse because exactly because of this insurgency, Gaurav, over the last couple of years.
49:46Chinese Sandeep, they'd invested close to, what, 60 billion dollars or around that in CPEC.
49:54Is that investment now dead?
49:57Gwadar Port, does it have any traffic whatsoever?
49:59Is that road safe anymore or no longer?
50:03Well, Gaurav, you know, Gwadar was meant to be the crown jewel of the China-Pakistan economic corridor.
50:10Which, as you mentioned, the Chinese planned to spend over 60 billion dollars.
50:14But now, more than a decade later, in fact, they began this project in 2013.
50:1913 years later, it's been a dead investment.
50:23There's literally billions they've spent on building the port.
50:26About a quarter of a billion dollars on building the port.
50:28All the allied infrastructure, you know, building captive power plants and airport.
50:34All of those facilities, desalination plants, all are lying waste.
50:38They're completely underutilized.
50:40It's possibly one of the biggest black holes in the China-Pakistan economic corridor
50:46and the Belt and Road Initiative that Xi Jinping had launched with much fanfare over a decade ago.
50:52Gwadar is in collapse.
50:53It was a fishing village, Gaurav, before this project began.
50:56It continues to be a fishing village even now.
50:59It's all the major shipping lines are giving it a miss because there's simply not enough cargo.
51:05Why would you build an economic corridor and a big port like this in a country which does not have
51:11an economy?
51:12And we know the kind of economy that Pakistan has.
51:15It is terrorism, exporting terrorism.
51:17And CPAC does not, you know, benefit from any of that, Gaurav.
51:21So, China sunk its money and lost money.
51:25But for some reason, Field Marshal Aasem Munir has been able to get America to pledge money again in Balochistan.
51:32Where China failed, can the US succeed?
51:35Or are Baloch freedom fighters ensuring that if their rights are not protected,
51:41Balochistan remains a graveyard for Pakistan-ami?
51:45Surely, Gaurav.
51:46You know, in fact, Pakistan has been offering Pasni port nearby to Gwadar to the Americans.
51:52And the idea was to link it up with the railway line into Afghanistan.
51:56But all these are pipe dreams, Gaurav.
51:58You know, it is one thing to make these PowerPoint presentations and pitches and go into the White House.
52:04It's another thing.
52:04Smart businessmen know which areas to avoid.
52:08And currently, Pakistan, given the kind of insurgency that's raging in Balochistan and in Khyber Paktoonkwa,
52:14is the last country that any sensible businessman would want to invest in.
52:19Money is a coward, Gaurav.
52:21And when money sees this kind of chaos and, you know, trouble,
52:25they're going to stay far away from this, Gaurav.
52:28Indeed.
52:29And the last 30 seconds I have on this part of the show,
52:31I want to understand, Sandeep,
52:32the writ of the Pakistani state,
52:34does it no longer prevail or prevail only in name,
52:38west of Indus,
52:39whether it's Khyber Paktoonkwa or Balochistan,
52:42Pakistan army, it's a graveyard for Pakistan army
52:44and that so-called strategic depth in Afghanistan.
52:47Now, Afghanistan seems to have strategic depth in Khyber Paktoonkwa.
52:51Absolutely, Gaurav.
52:52You know, and they used to say that Afghanistan was the graveyard of empires,
52:55but today it is Khyber Paktoonkwa and Balochistan,
52:59which seems to be a graveyard for the Pakistan military.
53:03The only province that is relatively untouched is the Punjab province
53:07and to some extent it's Sin.
53:09Every other province in Pakistan seems to be on fire, Gaurav.
53:12And it's only going to get worse.
53:14And when a country does not have the economic resources
53:17to put down these kind of insurrections,
53:20then the inevitable, you know, is staring at them in the face.
53:25Fractures, dissensions, and it collapsed.
53:25Sandeep and I will be tracking developments in Pakistan very closely
53:29because a strong Pakistan always means more trouble for India,
53:34more terror in India.
53:35And a jelly state Pakistan, which is neither breaking nor strong,
53:40keeps their army occupied within.
53:42We'll be tracking that story closely.
53:43That is all I have for you on India First this evening.
53:46Many thanks for watching.
53:47News and updates continue on India Today.
53:48Stay with us.
53:49Let's go.
53:49Let's do it.
53:49Let's do it.
53:49You