- 13 minutes ago
A panel debate covering political rows on Ram Mandir remarks, festival pollution, and vote-bank politics with diverse perspectives.
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00:00Charu Pragya is BJP's national spokesperson, joins me on this special broadcast.
00:04Juhi Singh is the spokesperson of the Savajwadi Party, Rajat Sethi and Tawseef Ahmed Khan.
00:08Join me as political analyst and Tawseef Ahmed Khan, I want to begin by asking you
00:13your reading of what Trinmool Congress Member of Parliament Kirti Azad says about
00:19Divvibhavya Ram Mandir, not visiting it, and about Maryadhapur Suttam Shri Ram.
00:24Is there merit in the BJP saying there is a pattern to anti-Hindu statements and actions
00:32of the Trinmool Congress?
00:37You see, it's not the job of the government of India or any representative of the government
00:42or the representative of the ruling party to distribute certificates of one's religion
00:49or to distribute certificates of whether one person is bad or good or at what category.
00:56So far, his or her personal choice or personal faith is concerned.
01:02That's none of the business of the government.
01:06If anything that's said by Mr. Azad is illegal, very well, anybody from the ruling party can
01:14go and file a case against him.
01:15They are in power.
01:16They have access to the Supreme Court, they have access to the High Court, they can issue
01:21direction to the local police station.
01:24But to make an issue out of it, since they have failed in administration, since they have
01:29failed to contain the price rise, they have failed to provide fresh air, to provide a breathable
01:38air to the people of the country.
01:39They bring these issues, issues which should not concern the government at all.
01:46The government is there to govern, to see that the rules are followed.
01:51Since you're a lawyer, this is a political party challenging another political party.
02:01This is BJP challenging the Trinmool Congress.
02:04But I want to get Rajat Sethi to respond.
02:07Because government is not saying this on Ram Mandir.
02:11It is a TMC MP being responded to by the BJP.
02:15But I want to, you know, on that wider issue of Trinmool appeasing a vote bank, but Kirti
02:22has that saying words like this.
02:24Rajat, where do you stand on this?
02:28Hi, Gaurav.
02:30So, we need to understand that there is a cultural context around it.
02:35In this region of Bihar, in the Mithila region, they don't name their children by the name
02:42of Ram, they also don't name their children by the name of Sita, because they feel, because
02:47Sita, it was, you know, the maternal home of Sita.
02:52And it's more colloquial wherein they feel that, you know, injustice was done to her.
02:58And therefore, you know, we will, in fact, in a lot of Geet's, in a lot of folklore over
03:04there, this entire episode is talked about, talked about pretty openly.
03:11In Mithilanchal, also, if somebody tries, from UP tries to marry a girl from Mithilanchal,
03:18they are also mobbed the way, you know, invoking what happened in Ramayan.
03:25So, there is a cultural context.
03:27But, you know, the way TMC's leader, who also hails from that very region, tries to
03:34make out, there is some kind of a cynical attitude, some kind of a signaling also, which
03:39is mixed in.
03:40And that is where it becomes more political and less cultural, wherein he is trying to
03:45invoke something which Mithilanchal sort of believes in.
03:50Therefore, in my opinion, again, it should not be a big issue, it should not be made out
03:55of it.
03:55But also, Mr. Kirdi Azar should know that there is cultural sensitivities around it.
03:59The whole of UP, major chunks of Bihar, hold Bhagawan Ram in a different light.
04:05And there are many, many nuanced interpretations of what happened after Bhagawan Ram came back
04:12to Ayodhya.
04:13Therefore, without drawing in those nuances, if he just tries to make a very, you know,
04:21a remark very crassly or without the sensitivities, it is going to get reactions and especially
04:27political reactions and political parties will make an issue out of it.
04:32And that is what is happening.
04:37Okay, I also want to, for a moment, talk about that wider aspect of the BJP saying, Juhi
04:45saying that this is systematic targeting of the Sanatan Dharm, because whether it's the
04:50Congress Party or the Samajwadi Party or the Trinmul Congress, they all have a certain
04:55vote bank, Juhi saying, and the attempt is to get back or to appease their vote bank.
05:00Like, if Malikarjun Khargev, for example, says Diwali is Khushyokki Eid, why do you need
05:05to bring in an Eid aspect to Diwali is the point that BJP raises.
05:10Or if Akhile Shadav hasn't visited the Ram Temple so far, you know, he's saying there's
05:16an appeasement politics that's going on here, ma'am.
05:27If a person wants to visit the Ram Temple, he or she will, according to his own wishes
05:33and faith.
05:34I tell you, Sadiya, you can look for certain context to talk about it, but I will say that
05:40the Natchez President had always made it very clear that he will be visiting the Ram Temple
05:45and he wants to build the Kedarishwar Temple first and it will reach the state for maybe
05:51set a date now.
05:52I do not know whether it will be planned, it will be after that or before that, but that
05:56will always be there on our agenda.
05:58And I think the people of UP have no questions about that.
06:04But as I said, we have a state or the chief minister who looks for issues, when there are
06:09no issues and ignore issues, you know, probably cover the people we can't there.
06:12We saw the depots of, there were thousands of people collecting oil and they were being
06:18hit by individuals there.
06:21So that's the case where you see that the economy is in distress and maybe the mental
06:25distress in the chief minister is caused because of that, he doesn't want to handle that
06:29or the unemployment crisis or what's happening to the farmers or the children that are actually
06:35opening.
06:36So we have no comments on that, but we will be Ram Temple and we do not need any of
06:43the
06:43decisions or any of the validations for that.
06:49Okay, so Charu Pragya, you've heard, you know, both the TMC or our analysts from Bengal and
06:59of course the Samajwadi Party, they say when governance issues fail, when nothing else works
07:04for the BJP, the BJP invokes Lord Ram, a religion to get that wider vote bank, their vote bank.
07:14So if the minority is going in for a vote bank, BJP is going for its vote bank as Yogi
07:18Adityanath put it and I'll come to the pollution aspect in just a moment.
07:21It's that assi bees ki ladai, you are reaching out for the assi, they're reaching out for
07:25the bees.
07:27No, absolutely not and I'll explain why I'm saying that.
07:30Gaurav, good evening to you, to my fellow co-panelists and all our viewers tonight.
07:35See, our constitution gives us the freedom, article 25 of it gives us the freedom to celebrate
07:43our religion, to practice our religion in any way we see fit.
07:47For the longest time in India, what have we been seeing?
07:50Instead of one religion getting a special privilege, Hinduism seems to be getting special prejudice
07:57and we have seen this time and time again and especially at the hands of the opposition.
08:01So this special prejudice which comes behind all Hindu gods and goddesses, which comes behind
08:07all our celebrations, which comes behind all our festivals, it must be marked because what
08:12is being practiced by the opposition today is pseudo-secularism.
08:15That is not secularism.
08:16Can you ever imagine and I'm going to quote Kargeji here, when he can so comfortably say
08:21Khushiyo ki Eid, on Eid is he going to say Khushiyo ki Diwali hai?
08:24Can you ever imagine that happening?
08:27Recently, I think it was last year, the Congress handle wished everybody a happy Diwali by saying
08:33Jashne Diwali.
08:34Is that a terminology that has ever been used with the Hindu religious cultural festival
08:39of Diwali?
08:40So I think this division that everybody is talking about was created by the longest time
08:46by the previous UPA regime, currently the opposition and we have put a full stop to that
08:51and I think they cannot stand that.
08:53See, when everybody can celebrate their festivals, why is it that Holi we are discussing water,
09:00Diwali we are coming down to saying, hey, but fire cactles jalayenge, so environmental
09:04issues hajayenge.
09:05I say, discuss environmental issues, we must, we absolutely must, but if you're going to
09:10be discussing pollution, it has to be done in totality, right?
09:13You have to discuss industrial emissions also, you have to discuss vehicular pollution also,
09:18you have to discuss construction, you have to discuss crop burning.
09:20If you're doing all of that, okay, I will still give it to you that you have a discussion
09:25about flackers and regulations.
09:26We are a secular democracy.
09:29Yeah.
09:30We have a secular democracy.
09:32No religion gets special privileges in India.
09:35Every religion has to be equal in the eyes of the law.
09:39But we are still getting special prejudice.
09:42Have you not noticed it?
09:43You say that Hinduism is getting special prejudice.
09:45With examples, I will give you examples from the government of Karnataka, for example.
09:50They've done reservations in the name of a religion which our constitution doesn't even
09:55allow.
09:554% reservation for contractors who come from one specific religion.
09:59They have allotted funds religion-wise, which is again not allowed by a constitution,
10:04but the government of Karnataka has time and time done that again.
10:07They have given out scholarships only to Muslims.
10:10So the thing is that when you are going to defy the very word and the very spirit of the
10:15constitution, we are going to speak up on these issues.
10:18See, secularism is not a one-way street.
10:20The respect has to be given to every single religion and not be careful your one specific
10:25vote.
10:26First, Juhi Singh and then Tauseef.
10:28Okay.
10:29Okay.
10:30Juhi Singh respond.
10:32The BJP says there is a typical Muslim vote bank politics.
10:36Go ahead, ma'am.
10:37Respond.
10:38One of I think I agree with you that, of course, the solution is a larger issue, but is the
10:44government of India, is the government of India doing enough to tackle that solution?
10:48Of course, I agree.
10:50It's not just connected with Juhali, it's connected with France, it's a transportation,
10:55it's connected with capital grants, it's also connected with ethanol and petrol, these
10:59things.
11:00So yes, we had this whole G20 summit, we did not come up with a statement also, what are
11:07we doing for climate change?
11:08We are, even, as I said, that who has said what and what the chief must have fixed up and
11:14what the BJP says about the prejudice of the harax, I have no idea, because there is a
11:21constitution, so even you should be concerned about the fact that this is a mixture of this
11:25is there, that 1.30 crore voters have been taken off the list of the electoral roads, which
11:32are expressed, and it does not think with the panchayati, that's why maybe they are not
11:36holding the panchayati, panchayati regulation, the neutralization is gone in the UK.
11:40So there are bigger issues, more important issues than really tying up the divine resolution,
11:47and nobody is being pushed into the panchayati, the Hindus in the Muslims in the 16th century,
11:53everybody still, you know, is peaceful, and we are staying together, but the chief minister
11:59and his bulldozer churches have much more in duty, and the answer will come.
12:05So there is no apprehension, the constitution will get protected with that.
12:09Yes, sir.
12:12You are saying there is no appeasement of Muslims?
12:14Tawseef, the BJP lists out appeasement politics, and they are saying look at one religion being
12:20given precedence over the other in a state like Bengal when TMC was in power.
12:26Restrictions on holy celebrations at Sonjuri Hart in Shanti Niketan over concerns over damage
12:32to greenery.
12:33KMC removed Vishwakarma Puja and extended Idul Fitr holidays for Hindi medium school following
12:39a backlash that notification was withdrawn.
12:41Durga immersion controversy, Mamata Banerjee government accused of restricting Durga idol immersion
12:46on September 30th to before 6pm, citing it coincides with Muharram, which was permitted again then on 2nd of October.
12:57Bengal Council for Higher Education replaced Ram Denu with Rang Denu in reference to Rainbow.
13:03These are just some examples of what the BJP sees as Muslim appeasement politics of the opposition, sir.
13:13Gaurav, the list that you have read is bogus and debatable.
13:19But on the contrary, what I will list out is a clear fact.
13:23What is happening when Kabadhi Riyatra is performed?
13:27No, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
13:29You've said it's bogus.
13:30You've said it's bogus.
13:31Tell me, tell me how is it bogus?
13:34Tell me how is it bogus?
13:35Hold on.
13:36Yes.
13:36No, Tawseef.
13:37Yes.
13:37When you say it is bogus, why is it bogus?
13:40No, no, I mean, no, it is no fatwa that it is bogus.
13:43No, it has to, there has to be a reason.
13:46Yes, I'll give you the reason, but let me list out what BJP does.
13:51In Kabadhi Riyatra, helicopters are there to shower flower petals on the Kabadhi Riyatis.
13:59Show me when that is done by government when Muharram procession is going on or when Christmas mass is going
14:04on or when there is a celebration of Sikh festival.
14:08No, none.
14:09Secondly, mosques, thousands of mosques are demolished across country on one or the other pretext.
14:17Thousands of mosques on record.
14:19Name me, there are thousands of illegal temples on the street.
14:25There are so many religious places you will find.
14:29Which are also, which are also, which are also demolished, which are also demolished and are shifted to other areas.
14:37Gaurav, please don't defend BJP.
14:39Let the BJP spokesperson defend him.
14:41I am not defending BJP.
14:43I am not defending BJP.
14:45All I am telling you is, when…
14:46It is ironic, it is ironic that BJP speaks about special treatment and appeasement.
14:55BJP indulges in special treatment only to appease their voter bank, the new called Hindu voter bank, which they have
15:05kind of told the people of India that the Hindus are voting for BJP.
15:09But the SIR story speaks otherwise.
15:12The election commission, the protest against the chief election commission speaks otherwise.
15:17Their people are not even voting for BJP.
15:21It is all managed and the genuine voters have been deleted.
15:25So what is BJP saying here?
15:27Neither are they proving that they have received real votes from the so-called Hindu voters.
15:34And yet they continue to do this appeasement politics by trying to impress upon the people that because of the
15:42Hindu appeasement, Hindu voters are coming out and voting them.
15:45But the fact remains that dozens of houses caught fire during the Diwali celebration.
15:49There is no talk about it.
15:51That the air condition went from bad to worse in metropolitan city, the capital of India and then the capital
15:59of Bengal and so many other metropolitan cities.
16:02Non-breathable air the government is providing.
16:04Because of the money.
16:05They keep mum.
16:06Yes.
16:07They don't talk about it.
16:09They are allowing the people to destroy the environment because they want to appease Hindus.
16:15And they are trying to impress upon the people that as if Hindus are voting them.
16:20But the SIR.
16:20So you are saying Diwali destroys environment, firecrackers destroy environment only on Diwali.
16:25The government is voting for VJP.
16:26Fair enough Tawseef, Rajat.
16:26VJP is manufacturing and forced from the EVM machines.
16:28Fair enough Tawseef, Rajat.
16:28VJP is manufacturing and forced from the EVM machines, that there is a hotel in the EVM counting.
16:32How can VJP get more than the voters' prevent any constitution?
16:38Again, no fatwa can say that.
16:40It has to be said by courts of law.
16:43it has to be said by courts of law
16:45but it you know just because
16:47you feel that
16:49it doesn't become the truth but
16:51Rajat Sethi wants to respond Rajat Sethi
16:53Tawseev says one
16:55Diwali leads to environment
16:57pollution two he says BJP
16:59is indulging in Hindu vote bank
17:01or vote chori and it's just
17:03pretending it is a Hindu vote bank
17:07so Gaurav I couldn't make
17:09out what all gibberish
17:11was just spoken of but I'll leave it
17:13there but my larger point remains that
17:15number one policy making
17:17should be as secular
17:19as possible
17:21keeping cultural sensitivities in mind
17:23and I believe if the pollution
17:25is a concern we should all come
17:27about and understand together what needs
17:29to be done I believe
17:33toxin
17:33emitting fireworks
17:35is a problem therefore
17:37if it is a well recognized
17:39an established problem and the solution
17:41that was provided was green
17:43crackers the problem that
17:45everybody and the detractors of Diwali
17:47festival should have asked is where
17:49are the supply chains for green
17:50crackers how much of
17:52availability of green crackers was
17:55was there on the eve of
17:56Delhi festival
17:57Diwali festival it was actually very
18:00hard to find places which actually
18:01sell
18:02large amounts of green
18:03green crackers so there could have
18:05been other ways in which you could
18:06have framed your question but this
18:09attack that happens straight on to
18:11the festivities
18:12is is done with a deliberate intent
18:14we all know that Gaurav that
18:16immediately after Diwali
18:18the AQI's actually came down
18:20considerably
18:21the AQI numbers were back to 200
18:24to 300 of course it is not
18:26good but you cannot sort of wish away
18:29that things will automatically change
18:31also when you do that the picture is
18:33incomplete if you don't talk about
18:35vehicles on the street on the roads
18:37of Delhi also we need to talk about
18:39what is happening in the entirety of
18:41Punjab even till now satellite data
18:44is also saying there are thousand
18:45plus incidents of of Barali burning
18:48Barali is still burning in spite of
18:50direct instructions from the Supreme
18:51Court is just because that there is
18:53an election and this is an election
18:55season no political party wants to
18:57talk about it you know so if
18:59policymaking has to be done we will
19:01have to remove these low-hanging sort
19:03of fruits that come out of politics
19:05and by posturing only then you will
19:07come to conclusions just by attacking
19:10somebody's religion is not good and
19:12this is where I differ I mean if you
19:14look at the way a bunch of leaders
19:16from the Congress party go they don't
19:18look at the problem in its entirety they
19:20will cherry-pick and will dog whistle to
19:23specific religions and try to pit them
19:26against the other religions primarily
19:28doing the very classic vote bank
19:29politics which have rendered them so
19:31useless in politics they go back to the
19:33drawing book because they're so used to
19:34it it is one of the 16% 17% which
19:38comes to them I want to get back to
19:39Tawseev I want to get back to Tawseev I
19:43want to get back to Tawseev because it's a
19:45very sensitive issue Tawseev you know
19:48when you say Diwali adds pollution and
19:50Tawseev you know it's it's a little
19:54gibberish as as you know Rajat puts it
19:57look at the source of winter pollution and
20:00it's not just pollution on one day
20:02transport causes 19 to 24 percent in
20:05summers it's 18 to 21 percent there is
20:07no Diwali in summers but pollution
20:09remains extremely high industry 8 to 10
20:12percent in winters 15 percent up to 15
20:14percent in summers dust construction and
20:17demolition 10 to 18 percent in winters 25
20:20to 31 percent in summers biomass burning
20:2317 to 23 percent in winters 11 to 14
20:26percent and this is all data it's not one
20:29day but look at all the vultures who come
20:32down only for one day Diwali to pollution
20:35by December there is no Diwali summers
20:38with the Diwali why the systematic
20:40targeting of Diwali is the question that
20:43that Rajat Sethi asks Gaurav first of all
20:47you should rephrase the sentence you said
20:49that Diwali causes pollution that is not
20:53what I said what I said is that you said
20:56that sir you said that Diwali causes they
21:00these these celebration in the the way in
21:03which crackers is being celebrated yes by
21:06the firecrackers beyond the permissible
21:09limit without following the Supreme Court
21:12guidelines that is causing the pollution so
21:14there's a huge difference between one and
21:16two the government's duty these administration
21:19duty is to follow the direction of the
21:21court but what is happening is at the
21:23ground level they want to appease a
21:26certain population they have want to
21:28give a free hand to their own
21:29karyakartas and then the own karyakartas
21:32want to show that oh we are Hindu Ridei
21:35Samrat and we are the this is a modi
21:37government and we can do anything we
21:39want and they don't care about the
21:41Supreme Court guidelines they don't care
21:43about the police presence and they will go
21:45to do whatever they want in the end who
21:47is suffering the society as a whole is
21:49suffering I am suffering you are suffering
21:51who who are the people whose houses got
21:53burned please tell me what the Muslims
21:55they were not so in the end the society
21:58suffers if we don't follow to the to the
22:01guidelines set by the government I am
22:03saying when the government when the court
22:05sets a guidelines what is the problem why
22:08should the BJP politicizes why should the
22:10BJP try it and look for political
22:12dividend and not follow that guideline as
22:15simple as that because they want to do
22:18politics they are waiting with the and they
22:20are always on the election mode as if
22:23there is an election happening next week so
22:25they cannot afford to you know offend any
22:28particular vote bank we are we are sick and
22:31tired of this as an as an at the current the
22:34current population which is mainly the young
22:37generation the gen z very well understand the
22:40politics that BJP is indulging into and they
22:42have refused they have refused the
22:44politics nothing wrong in what what
22:46Kharkaji is saying are we are did we did
22:50did you not see Muslim households
22:51celebrating joining the celebration with the
22:54Hindu brothers in in this Diwali did you
22:57not see that did did Muslim families or the
23:00Muslim friends I will wait I will wait I will
23:07wait for you I will wait for you I will I will
23:11wait for you to say on Eid ki khushyon ki Diwali
23:15hai Eid khushyon ki Diwali hai and if you're we
23:19know when you when you say that and when the
23:21congress party says that then say it then
23:25say it I'm saying it now what what is wrong in
23:27that I would like to see I sure I've said it
23:31sure good that's the way this country should
23:33be rajat
23:36say it say it again that uh uh
23:48you know this this television secularism and
23:52secularism on the ground has to be
23:54practiced sir but rajat respond
23:58no no again uh the kind of uh statement
24:01that's been made by everybody
24:05everyone around us uh is just too childish if we
24:09are to look at policy interventions we have
24:11to consider year-round policy interventions
24:14put the government under pressure that what
24:16are they doing every single day the air does
24:19not go bad only around Diwali the other
24:21times it does not become a story but the
24:23consistent AQI numbers are always between
24:27100 and 200 it's in this poor category
24:29throughout the year it is only that it gets
24:32severe around the time when there is a run
24:35up to the Diwali it coincides with the
24:36uh with the harvest season in Punjab and in
24:39Haryana it comes down to Diwali but the
24:43planning and all the uh difficult or the
24:45sort of boring policy interventions that
24:47have to be done have to be done throughout
24:48the year if you start cherry picking you're
24:51automatically the mouths open up as soon as
24:53uh it's the next year of Diwali that is
24:55problematic because when that is the
24:57question you are trying to yes you are
24:59trying to score political points on it you're
25:02not interested in any kind of policy
25:04measures and this entire issue of pollution
25:06which is a which is a commons problem and
25:10you know collectively all of us suffer
25:12and individually nobody wants to bear the
25:13cat and this way you can't even hold the
25:15government because all state governments
25:18out of various ruling parties they will
25:19keep on passing the buck to each other and
25:22we will end up not having any concrete
25:23solution i'm telling you crackers is not
25:26the problem if green crackers are available
25:28but where is it where are those factories
25:30what are the incentives that are being given to
25:32those those people to set up green cracker
25:34factories and then no the supreme court has
25:38listed out and we put it out on your television
25:40screen the supreme court has listed out
25:42reasons
25:46that supreme court talks about vehicular
25:48pollution it talks about construction it
25:50talks about parali uh biomass burning it talks
25:52about multiple issues all of that is there but you
25:55know juhi singh it is this concentration and the
25:58problem is year long but which is diwali
26:01eve for some environmentalist one day holy
26:04for some water conservation specialist but
26:06they you know uh uh raksha bandhan se pehle
26:10some women's right activist bante ki you know
26:12raksha bandhan is patriarchy and karva
26:15chothis patriarchy ye wala jo ecosystem
26:17hey uh is is this is this targeting one
26:22specific religion because all of them again
26:24remain silent if there is anything in any
26:27other religion
26:37it's been 12 years there and 10 years here
26:40so suddenly to say that uh policy making and
26:44policy innovation of course i agree with that that
26:47solution is not just related to the first
26:49first and secondly i would also say that it's not
26:52just the air quality lucknow was flooded with a few
26:55days of rage right now may have nothing to do
26:58with the matter because uh she was too busy
27:00and looking for uh ghibhwetya till she found
27:03man so of course that the leaders have to focus
27:06policy making and policy intervening has to be
27:09in the whole year long because this problem is
27:12going to intensify and this means if you are set uh
27:15transportation uh air pollution travel which
27:19will become a part of our life your life is well i
27:21i think it's uh much worse so yes uh anybody who's making the
27:27statement relating to a particular question is
27:30actually trivializing uh issue which india is facing and it is
27:35becoming serious every day so let's look at let's look at the
27:39bigger picture let's track of the bigger picture but the
27:41government is supporting this that is the main stakeholder here
27:44and uh what are they doing about it the questions they should be asked so
27:48they're not actually big statement or made by an individual
27:52if that is important that's also problem of course we can discuss it yes
28:00fair enough now we've got you all sides of the debate now you have to decide
28:05where you stand on these very critical issues because we do need to find a
28:09solution to the pollution that we face and that we suffer and it impacts
28:13future generations but this pollution isn't just on diwali eve and a day after
28:20diwali a year-round solution has to be found everyone together
28:25keeping india first