- 24 minutes ago
National politics witnessed parallel confrontations as the Bharatiya Janata Party clashed with the Congress and the Aam Aadmi Party over governance and public policy. Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi challenged Prime Minister Narendra Modi to an open, moderated debate on foreign policy, the Adani Group, and voter roll controversies. The BJP dismissed the demand, maintaining that Parliament remains the designated constitutional forum for executive accountability and national deliberations. Concurrently, deteriorating air quality in Delhi, marked by Air Quality Index levels surpassing 400 across hotspots including Dhaula Kuan, Ghazipur, and Sunehri Bagh ahead of Diwali, sparked a dispute between the BJP and AAP. Delhi Environment Minister Manjinder Singh Sirsa linked the pollution surge to stubble burning in Punjab, while Punjab Chief Minister Bhagwant Mann and AAP representatives attributed the smog to internal Delhi pollution sources, questioning air monitoring data and enforcement of GRAP-2 measures as environmental analysts called for systemic interventions over seasonal restrictions.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, guys. You're watching To The Point. I am Preeti Chaudhuri.
00:03Well, away from all the international news and the midterms in America,
00:09focus on domestic news in this bulletin.
00:11Well, our top story comes in from a political dare which was issued by the leader of opposition.
00:17One political dare by Rahul Gandhi has now triggered a big face-off between the BJP and the Congress.
00:23Rahul Gandhi has challenged the Prime Minister to an open debate on the India-US deal.
00:28The Adani issue and foreign connections.
00:31But the BJP has turned the challenge around, insisting that Parliament is the place for debate, not social media.
00:37The war of words comes amidst opposition's escalating confrontation with the BJP and CEC Gyanesh Kumar over vote-chaudhuri allegations.
00:52A debate dare, a political face-off, and a fresh flashpoint in the Modi-Rahul war.
01:01The leader of opposition has thrown down the gauntlet, daring Prime Minister Narendra Modi to face him in a public
01:08debate.
01:31And taking the challenge to social media, Rahul has put out a poll asking young Indians if they want to
01:37see the two leaders,
01:38debate.
01:41The challenge comes amidst the opposition's escalating war against the BJP and Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar,
01:48with allegations of vote-chaudhuri, demands for accountability, and a public impeachment campaign against the CEC.
01:58But the BJP's response is to take the battle to Parliament.
02:02Union ministers have questioned Rahul's enthusiasm for a social media debate,
02:06reminding him that Parliament is the forum where the leader of opposition can debate with the Prime Minister.
02:13If you are a leader of opposition and you are a leader of opposition,
02:19then where will the debate debate be?
02:22The debate there?
02:23In the state?
02:24In the state?
02:24In the state?
02:25In the state?
02:26In the state?
02:27In the state?
02:28In the state?
02:41Union Minister Nirmala Sitaraman has cited Amit Shah's offer of a special session on SIR and EVMs.
03:04The Congress has upped the ante and questioned BJP's assistance for an open debate.
03:31A dare has been thrown, a counter has been fired.
03:35But the real question is whether this political war will move beyond social media posts and soundbites.
03:45Bureau Report, India Today.
03:50Is Rahul Gandhi, leader of opposition, warranted to call for a debate should he not take the root of what
03:55is the parliament?
03:56Let's take all these questions to our panellists this evening.
03:59Joining me, Rahul Singh Khalidja, spokesperson, Congress, Rajat Sethi, political analyst, Ashutosh, political analyst, Sanju Verma, national spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata
04:10Party.
04:10I'd like to begin with Rahul first.
04:13Rahul, we are not America.
04:16To challenge the prime minister for what is a presidential-style debate, that too on social media, too many, is
04:23kind of bizarre.
04:24Some would suggest parliament is your way forward.
04:26But the government, the BJP, has given you an option.
04:30They'll call for a special session, debate the SIR on the floor of the House.
04:34Vicky, even America did not have a presidential debate until 1960.
04:39The UK did not have a prime ministerial debate until the 2010.
04:43But having said that, we need not to borrow our democracy or democratic principles from the US or the UK.
04:50The Article 75 of our very own constitution says that the prime minister is not the just head of the
04:57House, the head of the parliament.
04:59He's also the head of the government.
05:00And the government is everywhere.
05:02It's outside the parliament as well.
05:04And the debate that the leader of opposition is proposing is not based only around SIR.
05:09It is about everything, all the policies, all the politics that the prime minister is doing, all the allegations that
05:16he's been leveling on the LOP and the political parties across the country.
05:21If the prime minister can go to Gujarat and say that there is foreign funding involved in the recent protests,
05:27then why not come out and debate the same issue?
05:30And it's the same prime ministerial debate.
05:33But Rahul, allow me to interject.
05:34Rahul Gandhi has also said, choose any stage, any venue, any debate.
05:39You know, and debate me on this.
05:41The government's given you an option, come to the parliament, they'll call a special session.
05:45Absolutely.
05:45But the parliament is run by certain rules and principles, right?
05:49The rules of procedure of the Lok Sabha or the Rajya Sabha does not allow such a debate, right?
05:54You cannot have a one-on-one parliamentary style debate in the parliament, right?
05:58The rules of procedure do not allow for that.
06:00The parliament is supposed to do policy framework, right?
06:05It is not supposed to do political debate.
06:08And if the prime minister could, in 2013, in 2012, when he was chief minister of Gujarat,
06:13on the Independence Day, he called for a debate with Manwoon Singh ji.
06:17In 2014, LK Adwani called for a prime ministerial debate.
06:21Then why is the same BJP today stepping back from the same challenge?
06:25But Rahul Singh, by that virtue, did you comply?
06:28Did you oblige?
06:31They did not, they never followed up on it.
06:33Exactly.
06:34The BJP never followed up on it.
06:35But the fact is that you did not oblige, you did not comply.
06:38I'll come back to you, sir.
06:39Stay with me.
06:40I'll come back to you.
06:41I want to cut across to Sanju Verma.
06:43Sanju Verma, the question is, you're the government, ma'am.
06:46You're the one who's supposed to call the parliament.
06:48You want to debate?
06:49Call a special session.
06:50Who's stopping you?
06:53You know, Preeti, first and foremost, let's get one thing very clear.
06:57I'm tired of this, you know, gun to the BJP's head every time.
07:00BJP wins a state election?
07:02BJP's asked questions.
07:03BJP loses a state election?
07:05BJP's asked questions.
07:06BJP gets 240?
07:08BJP's asked questions.
07:09Rahul Gandhi loses three elections in a row, but he's resurrected again and again,
07:13as if he's the next best thing after brown bread and spaghetti.
07:17So let me come to the moot point.
07:19The moot point is this.
07:20Rahul Gandhi, the forum of debate, is the parliament.
07:24And look at Rahul Gandhi's history, Preeti, very quickly.
07:27You know, this is something that your audience needs to hear.
07:29We are not talking of just poor attendance.
07:31We are talking of Rahul Gandhi's attendance in the monsoon session of 2020, zero.
07:37Winter session of 2022, Rahul Gandhi's attendance, zero.
07:40Bajab session of 2023, zero.
07:43Winter session of 2024, Rahul Gandhi's attendance, zero.
07:46And monsoon session of 2025, Rahul Gandhi's attendance, zero.
07:50Rahul Gandhi does not take parliamentary procedures seriously.
07:54This is the same Rahul Gandhi who wanted a debate on Rafal.
07:57When the Modi government agreed, Rahul Gandhi went MIA.
08:01Rahul Gandhi wanted a debate on Pegasus.
08:03When the Modi government agreed, Rahul Gandhi went MIA.
08:07Rahul Gandhi wanted a debate on Manipur.
08:09And Gaurav Gogai actually proposed a no-confidence motion in August 2023 against the Modi government.
08:14And when Prime Minister Modi started speaking, Rahul Gandhi was MIA.
08:19Rahul Gandhi wanted a debate on inflation and unemployment.
08:22When Nirmala Sitaraman started speaking last time, Rahul Gandhi was MIA.
08:27So what am I trying to convey?
08:28I'm trying to convey that Rahul Gandhi is a non-serious politician.
08:32Allow me to interject.
08:35No, no.
08:36Allow me to interject.
08:37Well, that's what even Rahul Gandhi says.
08:39That when they wanted to debate SIR, the Home Minister was MIA.
08:44It's the same charge coming in from the Congress as well.
08:46The charges that you are levelling are the same charges that are coming in from the Congress as well.
08:50The second thing, once again, because you had multiple leaders, even the Parliamentary Affairs Minister, Kiran Rajiju, suggesting and daring
08:57Rahul Gandhi to come to Parliament and a special session will be called.
09:01Call the special session, ma'am.
09:02Who's stopping you?
09:05Preeti, when we will call the special session of Parliament, whether we will call the special session of Parliament or
09:11not, whether it will happen in 10 days from now or 10 months from now, with no offence to a
09:17very smart anchor, that is not something Preeti Chaudhary will decide, the Congress will decide, Sanju Verma will decide or
09:23Rajat or Ashutosh will decide.
09:24But Sanju Verma, that's the option that the government's giving.
09:26Now, come on.
09:28No, I'm not getting into whether I'm a smart anchor or not.
09:31I'm just going by what the government's saying.
09:33They're saying, come for a special session.
09:35Call the special session then, ma'am.
09:38Who's stopping you?
09:38Preeti, I don't understand.
09:41I can understand if you get all, you know, up in arms against me if I say something which is
09:47untoward.
09:48Give a compliment, then you'll be angry.
09:50Let's go to a little peace, ma'am.
09:52Now, let me come to the move point.
09:54I just want to say something Preeti very clearly.
09:57Aray, Preeti, wait, na.
09:58Let me come to the moot point of the debate.
10:01The moot point of the debate, Preeti, is this.
10:04Rahul Gandhi does not want a discussion.
10:06And I don't think you, me, Ashutosh, even Rahul Gandhi's most optimistic supporters will agree.
10:14Rahul Gandhi is desperate.
10:16He is desperate.
10:18D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E.
10:20Desperate to come to par at any cost.
10:23All right.
10:23Okay, fair point.
10:24You have every right to make political allegations and rhetoric.
10:29It's your call, ma'am.
10:30But I have every right to ask questions and also to correct you.
10:32Because if you go by parliamentary attendance, and I'll give it 15th Lok Sabha, Rahul Gandhi, 43% attendance from
10:37your records.
10:39It's 16th Lok Sabha, 52%, 17th Lok Sabha, 51%.
10:42Not 0%.
10:43That's all I'm saying.
10:44I'll just come back, circle back to you.
10:47Preeti, you cannot get away by saying this.
10:49I am not talking of 15th Lok Sabha, 16th Lok Sabha.
10:53You are confusing.
10:53I named sessions.
10:55Monsoon session.
10:56Winter session.
10:57A session is not equal to the entire...
10:58Okay, ma'am.
10:59Okay, ma'am.
11:00We'll try and get you those figures as well.
11:01But that's not the point.
11:03Let's not...
11:03Okay, let's...
11:03Please do not confuse the issue.
11:04Let's not miss the woods for the trees.
11:06Let's continue this conversation.
11:07I want to begin...
11:08You are confused.
11:09Madam, I've given you enough time to speak.
11:11Ma'am.
11:13One second.
11:14No, I'm not confused.
11:15I'm not confused.
11:16Yes, you are.
11:16Let's leave it at that.
11:17Ashutosh, I want to bring you in.
11:19It's not about you and I, Sanjay.
11:20What have you eaten?
11:21It's Diwali.
11:21Calm down.
11:22I want to bring in...
11:23Ashutosh.
11:24Can I get the faders down, please?
11:26You are not Rahul Gandhi's spokesperson.
11:27Ma'am, can I just...
11:28You are not Rahul Gandhi's spokesperson.
11:29Ma'am, can I just...
11:31No, no, no.
11:32Madam, I'm neither Rahul Gandhi's spokesperson.
11:34I am neither your government's spokesperson.
11:36So allow me to do your job.
11:38Do my job.
11:39Right?
11:39Allow me to do it.
11:41Ashutosh, I want to bring you in.
11:43The call for a special session where the BJP is concerned that why don't we have a special session?
11:49The debate can happen on the floor of the House.
11:52That aside, on what Rahul Gandhi has demanded, do you think it's optics posturing?
12:04Ashutosh.
12:11Right?
12:13Very well.
12:13And I'm also really...
12:15Sometimes I really get worried that why the BJP spokesperson can't have a debate without taking my name.
12:22So many times.
12:24They love me so much.
12:25I really...
12:26I'm really amused.
12:27I really amused the way the BJP spokesperson love me and so much affection.
12:32I'm overwhelmed with my emotions.
12:35See, the fact of the matter is that Rahul Gandhi knows that the Prime Minister will not accept any kind
12:40of one-on-one debate.
12:41He knows it.
12:43But why he's doing it?
12:45Because it's openly challenging to prove a point that BJP and the government can label an acquisition against him, call
12:55him an anti-national.
12:56Well, when you call the bluff, then the no-BJP spokesperson or the no-BJP leader will come on the
13:05stage to have one-on-one debate.
13:07Because it's a bluff.
13:09It's a bluff of a very high magnitude.
13:11But, you know, Ashutosh, allow me a counter.
13:12Sir, allow me a counter.
13:13No, I'm going to make you...
13:14Just allow me a counter.
13:15We don't have the timer today.
13:16So, just allow me a counter.
13:17It's a different kind of a debate.
13:19I regret it.
13:20But let's just...
13:21Allow me a counter, sir.
13:22The fact is, why should the Prime Minister accept?
13:25This is not how our democracy has functioned in the past.
13:28It's not at the behest of the LOP that he's decided that he wants a one-on-one with the
13:33Prime Minister, a public debate.
13:35Therefore, the Prime Minister should have that public debate.
13:37Why should he accept it?
13:38See, Preeti, BJP is committing the same mistake.
13:43Mr. Modi is committing the same mistake what Mrs. Gandhi committed.
13:46When Mrs. Gandhi called JP a CIA agent, you know what happened in 1977?
13:53That today, the call of the day is that the government should improve its functioning.
13:58Government should take some radical steps to course correct.
14:03Instead of doing a course correction, they are proving their own weaknesses.
14:08That the Prime Minister of the country does not know.
14:11I'm really amazed.
14:13The Prime Minister of the country does not know to whom leader of opposition is meeting, where he is going,
14:19and insinuating that he is conspiring against the country.
14:22Then what the IB is doing?
14:24What ROA is doing?
14:25Shut those agencies.
14:26If the Prime Minister...
14:27You have a point in all of that, Ashutosh.
14:29But the fact is, the question still remains.
14:30Why should the Prime Minister of this country accept a public-style debate?
14:35Because there is a dare coming in from the leader of opposition.
14:38I'm saying, I'm saying, why not the Prime...
14:40Okay.
14:40It will be such good spectacle for democracy.
14:44The leader of opposition and the Prime Minister are debating one-on-one.
14:47Rajat Sethi, it will be a great spectacle for democracy.
14:48We've seen the kind of political season we are in.
14:51What's so wrong in asking for a debate from the Prime Minister?
14:54And if the government really wants, you know, the Parliament's not prerogated yet, they can call for a special session.
15:00See, nobody, at least in this studio, has the wherewithal, politically speaking, to come out and advise the Prime Minister
15:06of what he should do and what he shouldn't do.
15:08We are literally nobody.
15:10We haven't won elections.
15:11And Ashutosh has contested and he knows that it's far, far more difficult to stay in office for 25 years
15:17unabated.
15:19Therefore, Prime Minister knows his game.
15:21Now, see, Rahul Gandhi is well within his right to actually come out with an authoritative political statement the way
15:27he did.
15:28That, come on, debate me.
15:29I have all the answers and I will question you and put you in the dock.
15:33Good.
15:33But, you know, till that point, everything is fine as a political statement.
15:37But this childish, juvenile behavior that he gets into each time, 24 hours, you have a rose in your hand
15:43and then you go out and tweet, all of these very, very childish things is further, you know, brings down
15:49his own authority.
15:50You know, this entire, because you are not the leader of the country, you are the leader of the opposition.
15:56You are well within your right to question the government and keep on doing that.
15:59We all expect him to do that.
16:00But don't go on to that slippery slope of having this childish obsession that, you know, you want that lollipop.
16:07But, Rajat, allow me a rebuttal.
16:09No, but without the political lollipop, you will carry on crying like a baby.
16:13But, Rajat, the fact is, the political language...
16:15This is not how politics is to be done in the country.
16:17Right?
16:18Which other president is there in the country till date?
16:20Fair point.
16:21Fair point.
16:22But, Rajat, the political language across the world, including India, has changed in the last year.
16:25And we've seen it, you know, we've had the front row seats to that as well.
16:29Look what's happening in America.
16:31I'm not drawing parallels at all.
16:32But the sheer fact that the democratic win has been engineered by a population that hasn't voted till now, primarily
16:38younger,
16:39gives credence to the fact that there is space for a new kind of politics.
16:44Oh, my God, PPG, please, for God's sake, you know, since morning, I have been hearing these parallels being drawn.
16:51It is so...
16:51No, but I'm not drawing a parallel, Rajat.
16:53No, I'm just saying, even the mention...
16:55Even the mention of this debate...
16:57I mean, on one side, you have a person like Trump who was obsessed with asses throughout the campaign of
17:02the midterm.
17:02Forget about...
17:03Okay, Rajat.
17:03Let's not go there.
17:04Rajat, let's not...
17:05You don't want to go to America.
17:06You don't go to America.
17:07I'm talking about just India.
17:08Don't make a difference, Rajat.
17:09Let's look at India.
17:10No, no, no, one second.
17:11No, Rajat Tosh, allow him his time.
17:14All of you will get time.
17:16Madam, please await your turn.
17:19But, Rajat, I want to come back to you.
17:21You want to leave...
17:22Can I just get the fader down?
17:24Madam, you cannot come in because you have to come in on your turn.
17:26Can I just get the faders down?
17:28Rajat, you don't want to speak about America.
17:30Leave America aside.
17:31But the fact is, we've had the front row seats where we ourselves have seen a different kind of politics
17:36that has emerged.
17:37We can be in denial of that or belittle that.
17:39That's up to us.
17:40But the sheer fact to embrace it, would you think it could be a good idea, politically astute?
17:44My point is that embracement or otherwise, that is for a leader who has been in power for this long.
17:51He understands the signal.
17:52He has those mechanisms to engage with the masses.
17:55What does he have to do engaging with Mr. Rahul Gandhi, who has had a record of 100 electoral defeats
18:01in a political career?
18:02So, what moral or political authority does Rahul Gandhi come in?
18:07What kind of an internal party debate?
18:08No, but no, no.
18:09What internal party debate has he conducted in order to become an LOP?
18:13What struggle has he done other than adopting a name or surname of Gandhi?
18:17If you remove that surname of Gandhi from Rahul, that question still remains.
18:21What is that competitive exercise through which he has been able to earn the moral capital or the political capital
18:27to go out and question the Prime Minister?
18:29Do it in your capacity as a political leader.
18:32By all means, do that.
18:33But do not get into this childish behavior.
18:35I'll circle back to you because there is pretty much...
18:37But it's pretty much in 2024, about a percentage less, I would think, was the vote percentage that went to
18:45the Congress-led alliance.
18:47So, it's not bad that people haven't given him, you know, the political heft.
18:53He is the leader of opposition.
18:54We can all celebrate.
18:54Let us dedicate a day to celebrate his 99 seats.
18:57No.
18:58No, no, no.
18:58Rajat, we can...
19:00Let's find one day where we will celebrate Rahul Gandhi ji.
19:02Let's do that.
19:03No, Rajat, the fact is not that.
19:05No, I'm happy to join.
19:06You're minimizing the debate.
19:07I am talking about somebody who is the leader of opposition.
19:10You can debate on his antecedent of being a Gandhi or Janus.
19:14My point is, I agree with him.
19:14That's separate.
19:15But, Preeti ji, I agree.
19:16He made a good authoritative point.
19:19It's good, but then move on.
19:21Nobody is...
19:21Don't linger on to it the way he's been trying to do that.
19:25Fair point. All right.
19:25That's my limited point.
19:26All right.
19:27I want to take final comments.
19:28Let me go across the board again, and I will cut across first to the Congress spokesperson, Rahul Singh.
19:33And, Rahul, you have every right to once again accuse me of being a BJP spokesperson like Ms. Varma did.
19:39But I'll come back to you, and I will ask you the question again.
19:41You, yourself, have given examples where, in the past, the BJP and the leader of opposition has challenged your very
19:49prime ministers, our prime ministers then, who came from your party.
19:52And they denied it.
19:53This is not how our parliamentary democracy functions, at least.
19:57No, Preeti, the constitution itself allows the opposition to question the government and its government's responsibility.
20:04Article 75, subclause 3 says that the government owes accountability to the entire nation, which allows the leader of opposition
20:12to call for a debate.
20:13And also, half of what the prime minister says cannot be said in the parliament.
20:16Can Jarsi guy be said in the parliament?
20:19Can Pachaskar would be a key girlfriend be said in the parliament?
20:22All of these things need to be settled outside.
20:24All of the issue of the foreign funding and foreign forces involvement should be settled outside the parliament, because these
20:30arguments were made outside the parliament.
20:33These insinuations were made outside the parliament.
20:35And the prime minister owes the country an explanation and the leader of opposition an explanation for all of the
20:40comments that he has made.
20:41The prime minister cannot shoot and scoot every time.
20:44This is the time.
20:46Proof kardi je, na?
20:47You are world's best orator.
20:48You are a mahamana.
20:49You are non-biological.
20:50Nobody can defeat you.
20:51Come out and prove it now.
20:54Okay.
20:54Final comment, Sanju Verma.
20:57Yeah.
20:58And Preeti, before I give my comments, I come as the BJP's national spokesperson on your show because you want
21:03a BJP representative.
21:05I simply very politely asked you, can I come in?
21:07Because today there was no timer.
21:08Wait for your turn.
21:09Please stop being rude, Preeti.
21:11I think you are very rude on the air.
21:12Madam, it's a little rich coming from you.
21:14If you are going to be sitting in my studio.
21:15Madam, if you are going to be sitting in my studio and turning around and making allegations on whether I'm
21:21a...
21:22If you are going to be making allegations on my professional capacity, it's a little rich coming in from you.
21:30You are eating into your own time.
21:32You are eating into your own time.
21:33Make your point.
21:33Madam, very politely, I said no.
21:37I said no the first time around.
21:39But I don't think you got it.
21:43Madam, you know, make your point.
21:44Let me speak now.
21:46Make your point, Madam.
21:47Make your point.
21:48I don't need extra civility.
21:49Madam, neither do I.
21:50You want to get into this?
21:53Let me finish now what I'm saying.
21:55My limited point is this.
21:5750 crore ki girlfriend, jersey guy, blah, blah, blah.
22:00This is what the Congress spokesperson said.
22:02I want to tell the Congress spokesperson just a few months back.
22:07What did Rahul Gandhi say?
22:09Aray, yeh jo Modi jab haar jae ga na, joa desh ki jo yuba hai na, isko dandoh se iski
22:14pitai kare ki.
22:15That is the level of Rahul Gandhi's public discourse.
22:19Rahul Gandhi is at a stage where there's a huge audience along with Sandeep Dixit.
22:25When Sandeep Dixit takes a potshot at the Italian Prime Minister, Rahul Gandhi laughs, smears, jears.
22:32He does not stop Sandeep Dixit.
22:35But my final point is this, Preeti.
22:37Rahul Gandhi wants to debate with the Prime Minister.
22:39The same Rahul Gandhi who says, today morning I woke up at night.
22:43The same Rahul Gandhi who says the only way to empower Dalits is through the escape velocity in Jupiter.
22:50The same Rahul Gandhi who says, here we go, there we go.
22:54Fair point.
22:55Okay, you made your point.
22:57Can I please get in?
22:59Ajutosh, final comments running out of time.
23:00Make your point, sir.
23:01Final comments.
23:04See, Preeti, let me again reiterate.
23:06I'm really disappointed by the narrative of the BJP.
23:10They are trying to repeat the same thing, same, same, same is singing, same, same, same music.
23:17It's not going to work.
23:18The BJP spokesperson and the BJP has to come out with something new, some new narrative, some new steps.
23:25This, what Rahul Gandhi has said in the past, what he is saying now, this accusation, this abusing of Rahul
23:32Gandhi will not work come what may.
23:33This is not the Rahul Gandhi of 2014, this is the Rahul Gandhi of 2026.
23:38This is not the Rahul Gandhi, people used to call him Pappu.
23:40This is the Rahul Gandhi, he's emerged as a rebel, as a serious challenger to Prime Minister Modi.
23:45And if BJP has to deal with him, BJP has to dig out something new, something great.
23:52This old-fashioned, this old tape will not work.
23:56I'm very convinced about it.
23:58And if they continue with this, 1977, they should remember.
24:05All right, Rajat Sethi, final comment, sir.
24:09Again, I'll stick to the subject.
24:11The subject here is whether Rahul Gandhi is right in his assertion and demand for a debate.
24:16My point is that if you want to usher in a new era, wherein Indian politics have to be centered
24:22around debates,
24:23you can call it American style or whatever style, try doing that within your organization.
24:27Set up an example.
24:29Let the youth of this country try and see that you are actually genuinely interested in walking the talk.
24:34And if you set up a good example, if some good churning comes out of it,
24:38I believe this model should be emulated at a national level as well.
24:42But beyond this kind of a childish behavior,
24:46you have a rose in your hand, that Modi ji, please debate.
24:49This is immaturity of the highest order.
24:52You've made your point, now move on, get to more serious business.
24:56All right, okay, I thank all four of you for joining me.
24:58Thank you for taking the time out.
25:00And a very happy Diwali to all four of you if we don't see each other till Diwali.
25:04All right, Delhi has turned into a gas chamber.
25:07And that too, right before Diwali, the worst may still be yet to come.
25:10The national capital's air quality is deteriorating rapidly with the AQI climbing to 379,
25:17placing Delhi in the very poor category.
25:19Several areas in the national capital adjoining regions have recorded AQI levels in the severe category.
25:25Amidst the worsening pollution crisis, political sparring continues.
25:29Now, the latest coming in of Punjab versus Delhi.
25:37With each passing day, Delhi's air is deteriorating and becoming increasingly toxic.
25:43On Wednesday morning, the national capital's AQI crossed the 370 mark.
25:51Several areas in Delhi and adjoining region have recorded AQI levels above 400, falling in the severe category.
25:59Dholakua recorded an AQI of 417.
26:03Ghazipur, 410.
26:05And Sonheri Bagh, 414.
26:08The situation in Noida and Gurugram is no better, with both cities battling pollution.
26:15We bring you this image from Akshar Dham every year.
26:18Year after year, we start speaking about as to how Akshar Dham has been engulfed, covered in a thick, smog
26:28layer.
26:28And that is what is happening, unfolding in the national capital yet again in 2026.
26:35Despite all claims, this is what we have in front of you.
26:39Almost four days before Diwali, many experts would say what the numbers would be, or the picture would be after
26:47Diwali.
26:47And even as Delhi chokes and inhales toxic air, politicians are busy doing what they do best, play politics.
26:57While Delhi Environment Minister Manjinder Singh Sirsa blamed the Maan government for Delhi's pollution, Punjab Chief Minister Bhagwant Maan hit
27:05back at Sirsa.
27:05Punjab Chief Minister Manjinder Singh Mahan hit back at Sirsa.
27:43Punjab Chief Chief Dhillon claimed that pollution levels in Delhi had gone down.
28:00Meanwhile, Aam Aadmi Party Leader Baltej Pannu backed Punjab Swarmers claiming Stubble Burning had come down.
28:29Delhi's AQI continues to hover close to the 400 mark, putting several areas in the severe category.
28:36With Diwali just days away, Delhi could face an even further deterioration in air quality.
28:43With Amit Bharadwaj, EuroReport, India Today.
29:06You know, somebody thought in the last one week that there was this silver bullet that had solved all of
29:12Delhi's issues.
29:13We had clear air because it was raining every other day and then suddenly, boom, we have 350 and over
29:19AQI.
29:22Yes, Priti, of course, we wish that we would have those numbers, but we knew that this is the rain
29:31and it's going to be temporary because it just settled down the PM2.5 and other particles.
29:36But now we were coming into a phase when the winds get stagnant and the pollution remains, all the PM2
29:44.5, etc., all the other particles remain near.
29:47So this is what whenever there's a release, there's a winter action plan conversations when the government does, they are
29:55preparing for this particular time of the year.
29:57And clearly, you know, of course, we know that you cannot wait for a pollution crisis, you know, to act
30:05on if needed, you know, sustained year-round action, you know, to curb emissions, weather, you know, vehicles.
30:11I mean, that debate is really unnecessary because every emission is important, whether it's industry, construction dust, you know, waste
30:18that's being burned, not only in Delhi, throughout the NCR, because air has no boundaries, power, thermal power plants, you
30:25know, other sources.
30:27So, of course, conversations, I must say, were happening throughout the year.
30:32There were, you know, notifications, there were various kind of meetings and not only meetings,
30:38there were, you know, good amount of, you know, you know, thoughtful work being done, but that remained in more
30:47or less in conversations and drafts.
30:50Because on the ground, you know, whatever emissions and complaints that were being done repeatedly continued.
30:58So we had the local emissions that stayed and now the time comes when the external emissions, you know, whether
31:05it is double or now…
31:06But before I get to the politics of it all, Ms. Kandari, there's already GRAB2 in place.
31:12There are curbs that are in place already.
31:15There is a fair amount of, you know, the commuters are feeling…
31:19Those are reactive measures.
31:20Okay, you're saying this is all reactive measures.
31:22Yeah, preventive is what is important.
31:25Reactive is not going to clean up the air.
31:27That is managing pollution.
31:28To some point, I mean, maybe I'll take this point later, let the other guests come.
31:32Yeah, allow me to bring in the others.
31:34Sanju Verma, possibly this was a, you know, this was a question meant for the Delhi BJP unit, but you
31:40are the national spokesperson, so I am going to ask you this.
31:43The fact is, this time around, we were told, or rather, we were told that be convinced that Delhi is
31:51going to breathe cleaner, better air.
31:53That hasn't quite happened.
31:55Once again, the bickering has started where the Delhi BJP is turning around and saying it's Punjab's fault.
32:02You know, Preeti, let me make one, you know, important fact, which your viewers need to listen to.
32:10October 2026, the average monthly AQI, you know, in that particular month has been 166.
32:19It is the lowest in the last eight years, and between January 2026 and October 2026, at least 220 days
32:27in this period, the average monthly AQI has been good to moderate.
32:31I am not saying we don't need to do more, we need to do more, but the work on the
32:35ground is reflecting in the fact that the AQI level, monthly average at 166 in October is unbelievable.
32:42Does it need to go down further? Oh, yes.
32:44But is this good enough compared to what the KG1 dispensation achieved?
32:48But Sanjay Guamma, did you hear Bhavreen Kandhari?
32:51Bhavreen Kandhari said very clearly that what happened in October was very different in terms of the kind of weather
32:57we've seen, the kind of climatic conditions we've seen.
33:00We've seen rain, we've seen wind, which Delhi hasn't quite seen in October.
33:04So you got lucky in October, to be very honest.
33:09That's the convenient argument to make, that the BJP-led Delhi government got lucky in October, but I need to
33:15make a couple of points there.
33:16The fact that Rekha Gupta decided to ban non-BS6 compliant vehicles from outside Delhi to enter.
33:24You know, Delhi, I think that was a good decision.
33:28It's bearing fruit.
33:29No POC, no fuel policy is bearing fruit.
33:3250% work from home and reduced office attendance, you know, at least in government offices where physical presence is
33:39not required.
33:40I think a good policy measure.
33:42Doubling the parking charges.
33:43Some might feel, oh, this is regressive.
33:45But I think this works, especially when there are people who use fuel guzzling sedans for no rhyme or reason.
33:51Construction and demolition restrictions have been imposed.
33:54I think that's a good policy measure.
33:57AI-based monitoring of construction sites is a good policy measure.
34:01Intensified dust control on roads through monitored GPS, I think that's a good measure.
34:07Expansion of electric mobility-related vehicles and encouraging public transport, I think that's a good measure.
34:13But I will end by just saying one thing.
34:15For the armed army party to sit and give lectures on pollution control to the BJP, whereas I have got
34:22this latest data, 72-hour month, 72-hour average.
34:27In Tarantaran, it is the AQI 1319, the highest it's ever been in the last six years.
34:36Talwandi Sabo, it's 1036, again the highest in four and a half years.
34:40Bhatinda, 1124, the highest in the last two years.
34:45Sangroor, 1007, the highest in three years.
34:48Barnala, 1295, the highest in the last one and a half years.
34:53Allow me to bring in.
34:53So I want to ask Gina Gupta, who's the head of Punjab Pollution Control Board.
34:57I don't know whether she's still a spokesperson.
34:59Madam, if you got a promotion and became the head of Punjab Pollution Control Board, what have you done?
35:05All right, allow me to bring in Anmol Pawar.
35:07Anmol Pawar, allow me to bring him in because the Punjab government and the Punjab unit of the Ahmad Mipati,
35:13Anmol Pawar,
35:14is very clear where they say we have reduced Parali burning and yet the BJP cannot control the pollution in
35:22the national capital yet.
35:24And it is a fact, Mr. Pawar, if you actually look at some of the cities in Punjab, they have
35:28a higher AQI index than even Delhi.
35:33Good evening, Preeti Ji.
35:35Preeti Ji, farmer bashing has become a fashion.
35:37The constant hue and cry over stubble burning is simply not backed by the facts.
35:41I'll give you some data.
35:43Stubble burning incidents in Punjab has reduced by more than 93 percent.
35:47And this is Minister of Education's reply in the Parliament House in Rajya Sabha in 2025, Kirti Vardhan Singh.
35:55Secondly, Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Haryana, they saw the highest spike in stubble burning.
36:01In fact, they are the new hotspots in North India.
36:04Point number three, incidents of stubble burning reduced by more than 80,000 to less than 5,000.
36:10Your own India Today report yesterday showed this.
36:13It proved this.
36:14And very important point.
36:16Central government filed an epidemic before the Honorable Supreme Court.
36:19And a reply was given in the Parliament House by the Minister of Environment, which says that dominant sources of
36:26pollution in Delhi are stubble burning contributes only 4%, dust 25%, transport 24%, industry 27%, and residential 5%.
36:3693% factors are within Delhi.
36:42And the reason behind Delhi's rising pollution is BJP's incompetence because they neither have the intent nor the ability nor
36:50the political will to tackle this crisis.
36:52Instead of cleaning Delhi's here, they are busy manipulating AQI data.
36:56Yesterday, our Delhi President, Saurabh Bhardwajdi, exposed Bharatiya Janta Party in a shocking attempt by the BJP government to manipulate
37:06AQI readings at ITI Jangirpur.
37:09They were sprinkling water near the AQI monitoring stations just to lower the AQI level.
37:15Second point.
37:16Just a minute.
37:16And that's not all.
37:18To bring down Delhi's average AQI, on paper, 20 new monitoring stations have reportedly being set up in green, lush
37:25areas.
37:26Okay, this was the argument the last time around of the Ahmadami Party.
37:30I'll come back to you.
37:31I'll give you...
37:32Sir, allow me.
37:33I'll come back to you.
37:34I just want to bring in Ms. Kandari, you know, once again, and we'll take final comments.
37:37Ms. Kandari, what you talk about, these are reactive measures, and understandably, they are reactive measures.
37:42What is it that still the other governments, successive governments, are getting completely wrong in the national capital?
37:50In game, I mean, as much as, you know, I do agree that the stubble burning has improved.
37:59I mean, you know, it's been lesser in terms, but there's a lot of work that's happening.
38:03But this narrative of actually the stubble being the prime reason for air pollution has been brought in by the
38:13previous government.
38:14That till today, I stand with, you know, random people, and they say, oh, it's not stubble burning.
38:19No, it's only 14 percent.
38:22The rest of the local emissions.
38:23So, you know, we are citizens.
38:24It doesn't matter which party will come and which will go.
38:27We are concerned about, you know, our lungs, our children.
38:30And after so many years of this, you know, this nonsensical debates, you know, we actually am beginning to think
38:39that are we building an economy around something that, you know, it's not about, you know, breathing in polluted air.
38:46It's about, you know, it's something more.
38:49It's like, you know, the deeper systemic failures, you know, be it corruption, whether it's vested interest, you know, these
38:57tender-driven solutions that even haven't spared the last forest, our ridge, you know, where you want to just construct
39:03now.
39:04And economy which is built around, you know, managing the crisis.
39:07We are managing pollution rather than, like I said, preventing it.
39:10So, because managing means money, you know, follow the money.
39:14Managing means smog guns.
39:15Managing means all these sprinklers, water, you know, various technology, then firework industry, pharmaceutical companies, booming air purifier market.
39:26You know, it's just become a huge question mark, you know, for like, because it doesn't take decades, you know,
39:33for a government as efficient and now with the government being the same party.
39:37Well, China could do it in a decade.
39:39China did it in 10 years.
39:40Absolutely.
39:41So, it's something that we could have been able to wrap our heads around by now.
39:44Fair point.
39:45I just want to bring…
39:45Why are we not, you know, eliminating the sources of pollution?
39:49Final point.
39:50Why are we not working on the sources of pollution?
39:51I mean, we're working on managing the pollution.
39:53Because there is a huge amount of money there.
39:56Sanju, one of my final comments because it's, you know, Majinder Singh Sirsa from Delhi continues to blame the farm
40:01fires.
40:01Now, statistically, if you look at it, they have come down.
40:05Yeah.
40:07You know, let's get one thing very clear.
40:08When Kejriwal was the chief minister in Delhi, his biggest lame duck excuse was,
40:13What do we do in Delhi?
40:15The pollution is happening in Delhi because there is Parali in Punjab.
40:17But today, since Kejriwal has been ousted out of Delhi, you know, the Parali and stubble burning in Punjab, he's
40:24become completely immune to it.
40:25That is called hypocrisy with a double edge.
40:27But let me just tell you one thing.
40:29It's very, very unfair to completely concentrate the debate around air pollution to simply smog or dust pollution or stubble
40:39burning.
40:39It is now identified that the biggest reason for pollution in Punjab, which is affecting other states with which it
40:47shares a border, is the amount of effluent and wastage that is being thrown into the Buddha Nalla in Ludhiana.
40:56Now, I was shocked to know that there are 57,000 units in the Jalandhar-Ludhiana-Bhagwara belt.
41:0457,000 units.
41:05OK.
41:05And their NOC has expired as of September 30th.
41:09And despite not having an NOC, they continue to operate in what is called an MLU, Mixed Land Usage Area.
41:17And time and again, the central government has said that industrial units which are operating in MLU areas cannot continue
41:25to do so without having an NOC in place.
41:28And Kejniwal said, Aray ji, October 1st, Aane Dijiye, yeh sari ke sari units jingke paas NOC nahi hai, hum
41:35unka bant karwa denge.
41:36Kahan bant karwa hiya aap ne?
41:38All right, final comments.
41:39Mr. Babas, please come in.
41:40Final comments.
41:41Preeti ji, instead of reducing pollution on the ground, the BJP government is trying to reduce pollution on papers.
41:49A chief minister who doesn't know the difference between AQI and AIQ, an environment minister who lies on the floor
41:55of the parliament house, what else can you expect from them?
41:58They are the ones who are just blaming farmers of Punjab without any facts in their favor.
42:04The point is that their lies have been exposed time and again.
42:08Last year also, they were found manipulating AQI data.
42:11This year also, our leader Saurabh Bhardwajji has written to CAQM chairperson and CPCB chairperson to take action against all
42:18those officials, including the chief minister and environment minister, who are misleading the citizens, who are playing with the lives
42:25of the citizens.
42:25The reality is that India is the third most polluted country in the world.
42:30The reality is that the top 42 most polluted cities of the world are in India.
42:34All right, we are going to leave it at that.
42:36That's the reality.
42:36Okay, the reality, sir, also is that in this bitter politics on pollution, the collateral is the common citizen.
42:43That's also the reality.
42:44Let's end with that.
42:45I appreciate all three of you for joining us.
42:47Thank you there.
42:47We are going to leave it at that.
42:48We are going to leave it at that.