- 32 minutes ago
At the India Today South Conclave, discussions examined the political dynamics of Kerala and the challenges faced by the Bharatiya Janata Party in establishing a larger presence across the state. The debate reviewed the historical context dating back to 1957, exploring narratives surrounding the formation of Kerala's first communist ministry, shifting communal alignments, and subsequent political consolidation. The conversation addressed the consolidation of minority votes with the United Democratic Front, outreach initiatives toward Christian communities, and regional controversies surrounding conversions and places of worship. Focus was placed on the Sabarimala issue, state administration of temple traditions, and debates over religious autonomy versus government oversight. Furthermore, the dialogue highlighted Kerala's heritage of social reform movements led by prominent spiritual figures, assessing how historical socio-religious developments continue to shape voter consciousness and political competition between the Left and right-wing organisations in the state.
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00:00One of the many interesting dimensions of politics in this country is why has the BJP never really been able
00:09to make an impact in the deep south of the country, particularly in the state of Kerala?
00:16So we thought on the India Today South Conclave, we've got to revisit that question. And to answer that question,
00:23I'm joined by a very special guest, Dr. S. Radhakrishnan, State Vice President, BJP Kerala. Good to have you here,
00:30sir.
00:30However, southern India is seen as very religiously pious, deep into Hindu tradition. And yet the BJP has never been
00:41able to really make a mark in southern India, beyond Karnataka and to some extent in Telangana.
00:48Even in Kerala, you only won your first Lok Sabha seat recently in 2024. You've done a little bit better
00:55in the assembly elections, but you're still neither party number one or party number two, far from it. Why? Why
01:02have you not? What is this? Where the clash between religion and politics, why do you lose out?
01:07Yes, it's a very interesting question. And I'm very thankful to you for asking such a question. First of all,
01:17I want to comment on the entire South Indian politics, the Andhra, Telangana, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu.
01:27And the political scenario and context in those states are entirely different from Kerala. In Kerala, a false narrative, an
01:43axiomatic narrative, has been created by a set of writers, intellectuals, politicians and activists,
01:56that Kerala shares a very unique philosophy, liberal left, secularism. It is absolutely nonsensical and beyond the reach of facts.
02:14Let me explain it. In 1957, we got a government that is communist government, the communist party could get 60
02:25seats and they could
02:26form the first government in Kerala. And it has been celebrated as the victory of communism and left ideology. Let
02:39us analyze what happened. First take the Malabar and then the Travangor and Kochi. Let me take the Malabar first.
02:49The Malabar was highly afflicted by the 1921 rebellion by the Muslims especially that ended in the Hindu genocide. And
03:04the Congress led by K.P. Keshav Menon was not able to extend any help for the rehabilitation of the
03:12victims.
03:13The victims. The victims were really helped by the communal organizations, not by the political organizations. And there was a
03:24mistrust between the people of, especially the Hindu population of Malabar and the Congress Party.
03:36They alienated from the Congress Party. And in that gap in 1925, the Communist Party came to lead them.
03:47Then, take the other part. It was the after effect of Shabarimala Arsan case. And Namburipad clearly has given an
04:00assurance that if he could come to power, he would do whatever can be done by the government in that
04:08Shabarimala Arsan case.
04:10And then, how the Communist Party organized. And the Communist Party was led by E.M. Shankaranthamburi Party, M.N.
04:20Govindanayar. He was the secretary to the NSS and the disciple of Mandath Patmanabhan.
04:28Then, a group of SNDP leaders named R. Sugudan, T.K. Ramakrishnan, P. Gangadharan, etc., etc.
04:40So, what happens is that it was a Hindu political outfit. That Hindu political outfit has been presented as a
04:52secular outfit.
04:53It is absolutely nonsensical. It has nothing to do with the facts.
04:58No, you are giving us a good history lesson to the point where you are suggesting that the Communist Party
05:02of Kerala was actually a Hindu political organization.
05:05Hindu political organization.
05:05That it came almost as a reaction to the failings of the Congress to protect the Hindu community. That's your
05:13view.
05:13But they didn't turn to the BJP. In all these years, they haven't turned to you. Hindu Munani has grown.
05:19Hindu Munani has grown. RSS has its shakas all over. But no one has seen you as a viable political
05:26option.
05:26Yes, that really is the task before the BJP. And we have to ask the question again and again. And
05:35my answer is that, since there is a Hindu, powerful Hindu political outfit, and that political outfit cater the needs
05:47of the so many Hindu communities, then naturally another political outfit has to fight against them.
05:56To get the vote base.
05:58So the communists will completely disagree with what you have said.
06:01Yes, sure.
06:02They will completely say that this is Dr. Radhakrishnan clutching at straws. You had 50, you cannot tell me that
06:10because Nambudripadji won in 1957, we are now in 2026. 70 years later, you can't say that the communists have
06:18still become, remained a party of the Hindu society and the BJP has not got an entry as a result.
06:23Rajdeep. Rajdeep. That organization was led by a Nambudri. Then the secretary was a Nair. The other office bearers were
06:37the other Hindu organizations, communal organizations, like R. Sukhutan, P. Gangadharan, T.K. Rameshan, etc.
06:45Rajdeep. And then, again, every public speech of EMS ends with a statement like this.
06:56Therefore, all the backward communists, right from here to the last should vote for the communists party.
07:11So he has no hesitation to say that it was a Hindu organization.
07:15We are now 50 years later.
07:18Yes.
07:1850 years later, the fact is that even while you have grown exponentially in the north of the country, you
07:25have grown in the west of the country, the southern tip of the country has resisted you.
07:30Now, you cannot put it only on the fact that the communists absorbed the vote bank, which you otherwise would
07:35have hoped would have turned to you.
07:36There must be something intrinsically that there is a suspicion of what the BJP represents in Kerala.
07:42Do you concede that or not?
07:43This is not the question of suspicion alone.
07:46And apart from this Hindu polarization with the left parties, it is, actually, it is dominated by the minority communities,
08:00especially the Muslim and the Christian minorities.
08:02The Muslim and the Christian minorities adopted UDF, which is being led by Congress, as their natural political outfit.
08:15We are not getting votes from these groups.
08:18It is a fact.
08:20That may have something to do with the politics that you represent.
08:25We are trying.
08:25We are trying.
08:26We are trying.
08:28You know, we have appointed P.C. Thomas, Alphonse Kannan-Dhanam, then George Kurian.
08:39All of them belong to one single community, the Syrian Catholic community.
08:44But we are not getting votes from that community.
08:47But I'll tell you one explanation for that, because it's an interesting point you raised.
08:51Yes, you put up Christian candidates, give them Rajya Sabha memberships.
08:54But then the Bajrang Dal, which is part of your wider Sang Parivar, goes and bashes up missionaries in Chhattisgarh.
09:00Chhattisgarh.
09:01They will disrupt X-mas celebrations in different parts of the country.
09:05You can't have one rule in Chhattisgarh and another rule in Kerala.
09:09You say missionaries are working against the country in other parts of the country.
09:13But here you want to reach out to the Christian.
09:15They don't trust you.
09:16There is a trust deficit.
09:18But the Christians are trusting us in Goa.
09:20What do you mean?
09:23Why should Goa, they trust us?
09:25Sir, even in Goa, even in Goa, as we saw in the recent election, southern Goa with a large Christian
09:31population...
09:32And in north-eastern states, we are getting the votes of the Christian community.
09:35I am not denying that.
09:37But I am just saying, you recall when there was a...
09:39Last year, there were these attacks on nuns in...
09:43And they were jailed in Chhattisgarh.
09:45There were huge protests in Kerala.
09:46So even your attempt to reach out to the Christian community was being seen through the prism of what is
09:51happening in Kerala.
09:52You can't have...
09:53In Chhattisgarh, you can't have Bajrang Dal saying one thing, BJP saying something else.
09:58No, it is...
09:59You are all part of one Parivar.
10:00Rajdaip, it is a foregone conclusion that BJP is absolutely against forceful conversions.
10:10We are not hiding that fact.
10:13Wherever there is forceful conversion, we have to oppose it.
10:19It's our...
10:19Are you saying that the missionaries who are going from Kerala to Chhattisgarh engage in forceful conversion?
10:24Oh, sure, sure.
10:25Some of them, some of them.
10:26I can show the evidence.
10:28Not now.
10:28If there is a separate session for that, I can show the evidence.
10:32But most of them want to send their children to missionary schools.
10:35So you want...
10:36Again, again the double standards.
10:37You want to send your children to missionary schools.
10:39But no, in Chhattisgarh or in Jarkhand, there is forcible conversion going on.
10:43You know.
10:44You should know one thing that...
10:46It's not registering in population figures, sir.
10:48Christian population has not increased exponentially.
10:50No, you should know one thing that it is a fact that the Christian community has given tremendous contributions for
11:00the development of education.
11:03But the state governments at that time, especially the kings, they helped them providing land.
11:09And it is not a one-way traffic alone.
11:12Sir, I want to...
11:13And moreover that, these schools have been funded by the state government, most of the schools.
11:20Aided system is here.
11:23And majority of the Christian institutions are funded by the state government.
11:27And the state government gives them fund.
11:30Then what is wrong with it, sending our children to that school?
11:33Okay.
11:34You know, let's look at, for example, you know, there's a belief that part of a secular politics should be
11:40to keep faith as much as possible out of politics.
11:43That's a traditional, very European aspect.
11:45You could argue that that doesn't work in India.
11:47But just look at the way the BJP approaches Shabrimala.
11:51You know, you say at one stage that this is an issue of faith.
11:57At the other side, whenever elections come, you use it to politicize it.
12:01It becomes a political weapon for you.
12:04Is Shabrimala for you about faith or is it about your politics?
12:07Is it about how do I get votes?
12:08You accuse Muslim League, for example, of a Muslim vote bank.
12:11They will turn around and say you use these issues for a Hindu vote bank.
12:17See, there are two issues.
12:19Number one, whether BJP uses Shabrimala as an election issue.
12:25A very political party in Kerala uses Shabrimala as an election issue, including Contras.
12:32So, it is not the unique feature of BJP alone.
12:37But the Contras used it.
12:40Despite being a fact that they did nothing for the Shabrimala,
12:45they make the claim that they are doing many things for the Shabrimala.
12:49So, that point is no longer a valid point as far as we are concerned with the political context of
12:58Kerala.
12:59Then, the second aspect is that, whether we are making use of it or not,
13:04we say that it is, of course, it is a matter of faith.
13:08Then, why should the government interfere with it?
13:12Why?
13:13What is the role of the government in your faith?
13:17You have, as per the Article 25.1,
13:19you have got every right to practice the religion of your conscience.
13:24Then, why should the government interfere with the ritualistic side of the Shabrimala temple and the Hindu temples?
13:31What is their interest in Hindu temples?
13:33Why?
13:35Sir, but what would you do then?
13:37If you all were in power, how would you have approached it?
13:40The criminal cases that exist, would you prosecute them?
13:44And, like what we have seen with Chandachori with the Ram temple,
13:48would we see similar, if you were in power,
13:51ensuring that those responsible are arrested and prosecuted?
13:54That's deep.
13:55Criminals should be prosecuted.
13:57No doubt about it.
13:58But, the places of worship should be given to those who have faith in it.
14:05What is your interest if you don't have faith in the places of worship?
14:09Why should you go there?
14:10But, the faith gets...
14:11You saw what has happened with the Ram temple.
14:14Faith has got betrayed.
14:15Yes.
14:16In the name of Ram temple, people have done Chandachori.
14:18See, Chandachori is there.
14:20They should be punished.
14:22They should be punished.
14:23Then and there.
14:25The maximum punishment that...
14:26Same thing with Shabremala.
14:29Yes, that is what we are telling.
14:31You initiate action against them.
14:34Why?
14:35Why you hesitate to take action against them?
14:39Can I...
14:39You know, you interestingly located your...
14:43You know, you brought in Nambudripath.
14:45So, you brought in a bit of history.
14:47So, let me bring in history.
14:49The South has had powerful traditions of social reform, of anti-caste movements, rationalism.
14:56You know, this is the land of Narayan Guru.
14:58So, it's not as if it's...
14:59You know, the fact is, there is also a powerful countervailing force to the politics you represent.
15:05You talk of identity politics.
15:07They talk of bringing people...
15:08No, no, no.
15:08I am not talking about identity politics.
15:10No, you are saying the left practiced identity politics.
15:13No.
15:13You said Congress practiced it.
15:15Rajdeep, what...
15:16I am asking you, how...
15:17Do you accept that because this is a land of social reform, therefore, even though it's
15:21pious, even though it's traditional, a party like the BJP is unable to counter...
15:26We've seen it in Tamil Nadu.
15:27We see it in Keralam.
15:28There are already strong social progressive forces that you are not able to...
15:32You are seen as reactionary.
15:33No.
15:34RSS has established Tandra Vidya Peet to generate a tradition of non-Brahmin priests for the first
15:48time in India.
15:50Then how can you say that we are practicing that aspect?
15:53Number one.
15:54Number two, you said about the practice of communal politics.
15:59Is it by BJP alone or the Hindu traditions alone?
16:02What about the minorities?
16:04I said that.
16:05So that's why I told you in the first...
16:08At the beginning of our dialogue that this is a fake narrative that it is so-called left,
16:16liberal, secular.
16:17Instead, it has often been led by the communal interests.
16:23That's my point.
16:24I think that I am clear.
16:26You know, I find it fascinating.
16:28And, you know, the way you are putting it is equally fascinating.
16:32Because, very interestingly, Revant Reddy, Telangana Chief Minister, the other day created a controversy.
16:38Saying, Congress is successful only in the southern states.
16:41But has struggled in the north because BJP has stolen Lord Ram, who is revered in the north, while Lord
16:48Shiva is worshipped in the south.
16:50Shiva is the god of the poor, Ram is the god of the rich, and the BJP is the party
16:54of the rich.
16:56And the belief is that in Keralam also, you are not seen to be identifying yourself.
17:01If a chief minister is making such a ridiculous statement, I don't comment on it.
17:06Have you somewhere, though, failed to create that kind of mass movement in a state like Keralam, as you are
17:13able to use Ram Janma Bhumi to create a mass movement in the north?
17:16You said about Shri Narayananaguru.
17:18Yes.
17:18No, that tradition begins with, first, Brahmananda Swami Shiva Yogi, a palkart man, who led his struggle against his own
17:28family members when they practiced untouchability.
17:33Number two, then there was a great reformer, Chattambi Swamigal, who wrote a treatise on the authority of Veda.
17:45Veda, who are the competent persons to learn and propagate Veda.
17:50And he wrote a book in Malayalam, Veda Adhikaira Nirubana, who is the critic on the authority of Veda to
17:58learn and to propagate.
17:59And he established that those who have got intellectual capacity and dedication must be able to learn and propagate the
18:09Veda.
18:10That really was a revolutionary statement made by a saint.
18:17Then it was followed by Shri Narayananaguru.
18:20He first consecrated the Shiva, Shiva Pradishta, which is well known to you.
18:26And then, another person, who is Vakbadananda, who said that nothing immoral and illogical is to be accepted by anyone.
18:38So, all of them are or were the Hindu traditional monks.
18:46So, that tradition is there.
18:48And their aim was to reform the society as a whole.
18:53Yeah, but they were looking to reform society.
18:55You are looking for political power.
18:57No, no, no, no.
18:58They were looking to reform society.
19:00You are using, you want political power.
19:02And the people of Kerala may seem through it.
19:05See, political power also can be used as a tool to reform society.
19:09My, my dear friend.
19:12Okay, so I'll ask you in conclusion.
19:14If we come back, Mr. Chenga, for an India today, South conclave in Kerala, 10 years from now.
19:20Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:2010 years is not a long time in a country like India.
19:23No.
19:23Do you believe that the BJP will be a dominant force in this state?
19:26Sure, sure, sure.
19:28You believe so?
19:29Yes, sure, sure.
19:31And this is, and you believe that one of these, that out of the common...
19:34We will come to power in Kerala.
19:36No doubt about it.
19:37And where does your confidence stem from?
19:39No, that time.
19:41No, no, what?
19:41What is that one factor that you believe will change...
19:44No, there can be, there can be changes in the mindset of the people.
19:48That is what happened in the last election.
19:50I'm not giving the details now for want of time.
19:55Okay.
19:55We'll wait and see.
19:56It's a, it's a fascinating battle.
19:58And particularly because you put it in the context of the elections of 1957.
20:02And you've today claimed, and I hope the communists are listening to this.
20:05You've claimed that the communists were the ones who captured the Hindu vote and played
20:10Hindu vote bank.
20:11See, I am not afraid of communists.
20:14I'm sure they're not afraid of you either.
20:16They would love to have a battle with you.
20:18And there have been battles played out between right and left in Kerala over the years.
20:22But appreciate you joining us and being so candid.
20:26Always good to have a guest who's not unwilling to say politically incorrect things.
20:32Thank you very much, Dr. Radhakishnan, for joining me on the show today.
20:35Thank you very much.
20:36The Vice President of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
20:38Thank you very much.