Her Family Followed Branham. She Chose Jesus | Our Stories | 723 - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John invites Vonda to share what it was like growing up in a William Branham-believing family while refusing to accept Branham's teachings. She describes childhood rejection, fear-based warnings, strained family relationships, restrictions placed on women, and the emotional impact of being treated as an outsider while remaining committed to Jesus Christ.  John and Vonda examine how Branham's recorded sermons shaped their understanding of Scripture, healing, gender, salvation, and religious authority. They also discuss overcoming indoctrination, rebuilding faith, reconnecting with family members, and separating devotion to Christ from loyalty to a religious leader.  CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 03:56 Fear, Threats, and the Cost of Leaving 09:15 Growing Up as the Outsider 14:23 Family, Women, and the Lasting Effects of the Message 20:18 Healing, Prayer, and the Power Attributed to the Tapes 28:44 Childhood Indoctrination and Its Lasting Impact 35:21 Women, Eve, and Reexamining What the Bible Says 42:39 Family Reconciliation and Finding Christ Outside the Message 46:53 Freedom From Fear and Vonda’s Final Message  ______________________ Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my very special guest, Vonda Kaye, former child

00:46of the message.

00:48Vonda, it's good to have you on and to introduce you as former child of the message, not former

00:53member.

00:54I've actually wanted to have somebody on who was in that mindset, because there is quite

00:59a difference, and yet at the same time, it might be just as impactful on the child.

01:05And so, very glad to have you on.

01:07Maybe if you could begin by telling everyone just a little bit about yourself.

01:10I was five years old when my parents started changing all the roles.

01:15They were both Christians.

01:16They both knew the Lord Jesus.

01:18But Daddy met these missionaries, and they introduced Branham to him, and that changed their world.

01:25They changed.

01:26They were different people.

01:27And when they started telling us all the different rules at five years old, I said, Jesus never

01:33said that.

01:34So, my mother was not happy with me.

01:37I'll just say that.

01:40Because Jesus didn't say most of this, and I already knew him personally.

01:44So, I had a good foundation.

01:47And ever since then, it's just been me and the Lord, and I love my parents.

01:52They're both gone now.

01:53I love them dearly.

01:55I love my family, six siblings.

01:57It was good.

01:59But I was the black sheep.

02:01No matter what was said on the tapes, I would find that there were contradictions, and that

02:09wasn't what Jesus said, and that bothered me.

02:13So, the more that I tried to explain it to my parents, even as a young teenager, then it

02:19just got worse and worse and worse.

02:21But I was told only believe.

02:25So, I had to look up believe, and I read my Bible, which really comes in handy when you're

02:30wanting to find the Lord.

02:33And there's a lot of things about belief.

02:37And it not only is a beautiful thing where when you believe in Christ, you're saved.

02:44But if you don't believe in Christ, that's a problem.

02:49And there's different ways to believe.

02:53You can just think, oh, maybe that's right.

02:55I think I'll follow that trail.

02:57And there is a complete sellout of your soul.

03:04And I chose the complete sellout of my soul to the Lord, not to Branham.

03:09I can't even imagine what that would have been like as a child.

03:12Once you tell the people, I choose to follow Jesus, but I don't choose to follow Branham,

03:18it's like they can't understand this.

03:21How does this work?

03:21How can you follow Jesus and not Branham?

03:23The two have become so intertwined in their mind that they just can't take it.

03:28What happened after that?

03:30Did people cut you off, or did they still come around you?

03:33There were a lot of people that came through.

03:35Well, a couple and their two daughters that came through our house quite often after that

03:40for years.

03:42And it was impressive the way that they followed him.

03:47I truly am impressed the way people can just dig in and hang on, if it's the right thing.

03:55But there were times that, one time in particular, where my dad sat me down as a young teenager and

04:03played, we still had the reel-to-reel then.

04:06And he played over and over and over the same little story.

04:10Do you remember when he talked about the young girl that tried to leave the message and went crazy?

04:16I do.

04:17That's the one.

04:19And I wasn't a nurse then, but I still realized that I've never seen anybody in so much pain their

04:27eyes popped out.

04:28It just, it just, it was like, Daddy, you're smart.

04:33What?

04:35We had so many stories of people who left and these awful, awful things would happen to them.

04:41I, I remember growing up with a story.

04:43I don't know if other people remember this who were listening, but we talked about some person who was in

04:48their teenage years and they decided they were going to leave and they, they rode a motorcycle and they left

04:56the church.

04:56And then one day there was going over a hill and hit a semi head on and flew 40 feet

05:01in the air.

05:01And you hear things like that and it may be true, it may not, but it had one intention and

05:09that was really to drive fear into your heart so that you wouldn't leave.

05:12And fear is the opposite of love.

05:15Jesus Christ is love and he casteth out all fear because fear hath torment.

05:22And I was done being tormented.

05:25So I took a, he, I took my opportunity and when he walked into the other room and I casually

05:31walked out the back door.

05:33Well, I, I heard the door close and I felt him getting closer because I was walking fast, deliberate.

05:39And I hear him, feel him getting closer and closer.

05:42When he was about two feet from me, I spun around, looking dead in the eye.

05:47And I said, daddy, this is how it is.

05:51I would rather die like that than to live this lie.

05:56Wow.

05:56How did he react to that?

05:58The expression was, uh, sure, but still kind of like, really?

06:05He was so confused about that statement.

06:09And my daddy's a scientist, you know, I mean, he's a rocket scientist.

06:13He's smart.

06:14And to fall for, I don't know how they fell for this.

06:17Mama was a very intelligent woman, but I think they were lonely at the time.

06:22And the couple that introduced it were absolutely beautiful.

06:25They were beautiful people.

06:28And the more they talked, the more, the more that they just gobbled it up.

06:33They would come to our house.

06:35They would do the communion and the foot washing and, you know, that's all real nice.

06:40But I told my mother early on, I said, when that lady hugged me, she only did it one time

06:46when I was about 11.

06:48And I said, when she hugs me, I feel a dagger in her hand.

06:51She hates me.

06:52And that was the message to me was beautiful people hate me.

06:58It's so sad.

06:59We were taught falsely what love was.

07:02We, we would have these sermons.

07:03You probably heard them as well.

07:05We're talking about divine love, how divine love projects.

07:08And then when put into action, it was literally, I'm going to bite your head off if you don't

07:13follow what I believe.

07:14That, that's that particular couple.

07:18I laugh now at the time I cried, but I laugh now.

07:22Um, I was pregnant with my second child.

07:26I lived in a little trailer, not too far from my parents' house and the couple brought my

07:31parents and I let them in because my parents were with them.

07:36And I had pretty much, I wasn't real happy to be around them.

07:39But anyway, I let them in and here, this man, he's got his little Bible open in his hand,

07:45which looked beautiful, beautiful picture.

07:47And then he, he, they kind of go around me a little bit.

07:51And he says, we're done.

07:56We have come to, this is a quote, we have come to turn your soul over to the devil.

08:02And I said, we have a problem here.

08:04You don't own my soul.

08:05And the other problem is it's the body that's turned over in the Bible, not the soul.

08:13So it's time for you to leave.

08:15I remember the moment that they told the congregation the same thing about me.

08:21The thought went through my head.

08:22The first thought goes through your head is, oh no, what, what have they just done?

08:26Did I make the right decision?

08:27But then the second thought, kind of like you, well, they don't even have the power to

08:31do this.

08:31Why are they saying this?

08:33And I realized later, years later, even though it was my grandfather that did this, I realized

08:39that it wasn't so much for me that he did it.

08:42It was for the rest of the people that were there.

08:44John is leaving.

08:45You guys need to stay here.

08:48So let's scare the heck out of you.

08:49That's really what they were doing.

08:52And that's part of the reason why I really wanted to have somebody on who was a child

08:57of the message, but not a member of the message, because you're not under that same mindset.

09:03You're not held captive by the same type of fear, but yet at the same time, you're in a

09:08family that is held captive by fear.

09:10So it has this huge effect on you that is quite different than anybody else who's in

09:15the group.

09:15I tried really, really, really hard to believe it, to follow, to try, to find substance.

09:23Oh, you can imagine as a little girl, I was second born.

09:27The five younger under me grew up on my hip.

09:29I loved my siblings and my parents, and I wanted their approval.

09:35Every child does.

09:36They loved me.

09:38I will never doubt that.

09:39They loved me.

09:40But they just didn't know what to do with me because I had truth, and they loved their

09:46lie.

09:47So they just didn't know what to do, and I didn't either.

09:50There's no manual for this.

09:52It's in the Bible, but you have to look for it.

09:54So it's just, it gets complicated.

09:58Absolutely.

09:59You know, whenever you're a child of the message and you're not part of the message, everyone

10:03views you as the outsider.

10:05It's a very much an us versus them mentality.

10:09You're not one of us.

10:10You're different than the rest of us.

10:12And so you grew up in that mindset, well, why am I different?

10:14I'm human just like the rest, you know?

10:18So it affects the, psychologically, it affects you in ways that it's very hard to overcome

10:24because you have to find your own support group.

10:27You're in a group that are supporting each other, but they're excluding you from their

10:31support.

10:32Exactly.

10:32Well, I knew who my support group was, and that was the Lord Jesus Christ.

10:36He was the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

10:37That was my support group.

10:39I grew up that way.

10:40Never had friends.

10:41I, you know, just even till today, I don't have a lot of close friends because it's a

10:47habit, but I'm okay with that because I do know the Lord.

10:51And the funny thing about this is not just fear, but it's also rejection.

10:57I was in the Branham Tabernacle quite a few times over the years.

11:04I went with my parents and without failure, I think maybe four or five times without

11:11failure, every time I walked in, I'd already had my children.

11:14They were with me.

11:16And these beautiful ladies, gorgeous hair, nice dresses, beautiful attitude, right up

11:23until they walked up to me.

11:25And they would say, are you one of those Appleton girls?

11:32And I knew what was coming next.

11:34And I would stand tall and say, yes, the one that's divorced.

11:40And yes, I am.

11:42And they literally turned their back on me and walked away every single time.

11:47And I knew what was coming.

11:48And I just, you know, my heart, I'm just praying for them.

11:51Lord, give them some love.

11:52Show them some light.

11:53Yes, I've been divorced.

11:54If I hadn't been, I'd been dead.

11:56They didn't know that.

11:57The real problem, as a church, they're supposed to help and support the people and share the

12:03gospel with them.

12:04But it really, what I've learned is it's not really about the gospel.

12:08It's really about whether they connected to the central figure, which was Branham.

12:12If you connected, you had the gospel already.

12:15You didn't really have to share it.

12:17So there's this weird symbiotic bond between the people and William Branham.

12:23You growing up outside of that, you didn't have that bond.

12:25And so they saw you as somebody who, I hate to say it, but they viewed people like this

12:30as people who were not worthy of receiving the gospel.

12:35And I'll bet you can quote Malachi, can't you?

12:38Yeah.

12:40Well, I read my Bible, darn it, and I couldn't fall for that.

12:47I ended up with two possibilities.

12:49I narrowed everything down.

12:51I'm kind of logical for a female.

12:53And it had to be either John the Baptist or Jesus, and you can kind of go back and forth

12:58on them.

12:58You know, he's the one that fulfilled that.

13:01And to me, the Lord Jesus Christ is the last prophet, the last priest, the last king.

13:07He is everything or he's nothing.

13:10And for those who are unfamiliar, the book of Malachi in the Bible was a scroll.

13:14It had no chapters or verses.

13:15And at the top, it says, the oracle of Malachi to Israel.

13:20It was literally written to Israel.

13:22Well, Branham, like several others like him, took the last chapter of the book of Malachi

13:27and tried to claim that God would send another Elijah in the last days, not just John the

13:33Baptist, like most people, most Christians believe.

13:35We'd get another one.

13:37And then he would allude to the fact that he was it.

13:40And so he would basically build up this last chapter of Malachi and say that this is declaring

13:47an end of days messenger, and I'm it.

13:49But he would insinuate that he was it.

13:52He wouldn't outright say it in most cases.

13:54That's really different than what the Bible says.

13:58There again, I don't care what Branham said.

14:01It doesn't matter to me, but he affected me nonetheless, because for 20 years, I could

14:09not read my King James Bible, because I would hear that awful voice misinterpreting, shining

14:17the light on himself.

14:19And it's like, uh-uh, I can't do this.

14:23You mentioned that you talked to your dad about it.

14:25I'm curious how that went, because I know people who are in the message who have conversations

14:30with their parents, and that's it.

14:32They're, in many cases, they're cut off.

14:34How did he take it?

14:35What did he, did he ever come to terms with the fact that you were not a Branham believer?

14:40I think that my dad finally got it maybe a year or so before he passed.

14:45I was there with him the day before he did.

14:49And I asked him, I climbed up on the bed with him.

14:52He was in his death throes.

14:54He wasn't communicating verbally anymore.

14:57And I crawled up by his ear, and I said, Daddy, I have to know, is there anything or

15:04anyone between you and the Lord Jesus Christ anymore?

15:09I had a friend with me that was standing in the room, and he said, I don't know what you

15:14said to your dad, but he lit up.

15:16He glowed.

15:17You know, you mentioned, you said, I'm logical for a girl.

15:21That was the mentality that I had being raised in this.

15:24That was the way you looked at men.

15:26That's the way that you looked at women.

15:28And what's really weird, I began my career while I was still in it.

15:32And when I began an IT career, I entered the IT world.

15:37There are so many women that are smarter than me.

15:40And they're logical, some of them more logical than me.

15:43Now, I'm not saying that I don't have logic, but I started to come to terms with the fact

15:48that a lot of it was just pure misogynistic training.

15:53Some of it was doctrinal, but a lot of it was just really, really awful way to look at

15:58people.

15:58You did not view people as equal as you looked at them in a very demeaning way.

16:03I was trained like that.

16:05And then whenever I get in the IT world, now I have to try to buck that training, try to

16:11fight against it because you can't interact with people.

16:14And I wondered at that moment, I knew a lot of people who were in careers in the cult.

16:20And I started to wonder about each one of those.

16:23How does that work?

16:24What did they feel the first time that they tried to interact with somebody of the opposite

16:28sex?

16:29Did they go through the same struggles that I did?

16:31And I believe that they probably did.

16:33I would say so.

16:34When I was 19, I wanted to join the Air Force.

16:37I love airplanes.

16:38I'm just crazy about airplanes and flight.

16:42And I took all their tests and was told that I had the highest score they'd ever seen.

16:48Now all we need is a high school diploma.

16:50And I said, I don't have one.

16:52Oh, did you drop out?

16:53No.

16:54Why don't you have one?

16:55I never went.

16:56Because girls didn't have to go to high school.

16:59Because what's the point?

17:00You're an idiot anyway.

17:02So that only leaves one avenue for a woman to fulfill her destiny as a woman before the

17:10Lord.

17:10And that is to marry.

17:12But I was continuously told I was too fat, ugly, and stupid for a man to ever love me.

17:21It was just more ways to cut me down.

17:23And I believed it.

17:24That was my loving family.

17:26So I made some major mistakes.

17:29I blamed nobody for them but myself.

17:31But that's hard on a woman.

17:33And if there's more women out there, I'm not the only one.

17:36And it's just, I just can't believe why people are still falling for this.

17:42I didn't think that it still existed anymore.

17:45It's just so terrible, the things that he said.

17:48You know, when I was in it, I never really thought about how misogynistic it was.

17:53I knew there were some of the statements like he would say that females were not worth a

17:58good clean bullet to shoot them, that kind of thing.

18:00I knew that and I had all the answers for what he said.

18:03But I never realized just how deep that ran.

18:06Until after I left, I started reading the transcripts, not listening, just reading.

18:11When you listen, you're being indoctrinated and it's very difficult to separate what he

18:15says from the indoctrination.

18:17But if you just read it, you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that he said that.

18:21I would never say that to another human being.

18:24He is saying some of the most awful things to females and he's saying them in such a

18:30way that he's trying to charge the men to say them and join with him.

18:33And yet at the same time, we're told that that was the voice of God.

18:37The voice of God?

18:39Really?

18:40That's in your King James Bible.

18:42That's the Lord speaking to you personally.

18:44Now, one thing I will say, the man in his crowd had a way of whipping up your faith.

18:53And there were healings that happened by listening to the prayer lines on the tapes.

19:00I'll give credit where credit is due, but I still don't know exactly where that came

19:04from.

19:04But I know people, in fact, close people that have said, well, I was listening to a tape

19:11and I was healed.

19:12Therefore, he must be God.

19:15No.

19:16And that's really the problem.

19:17It's supposed to be a Christian religion, but their version of Christ is not the Christ

19:24of the Bible.

19:25It's William Branham and the Christ of the Bible.

19:27It has to be both.

19:28If you take one away, and for that reason, you can't really call it Christian.

19:33It's more like Branham Christian.

19:35It's this weird connection between the two.

19:38Two, whenever I left, I thought about exactly what you just said.

19:41And I know that everybody in the new church wouldn't believe me.

19:44How can you be healed by listening to a tape?

19:46I know people also who they listened to the recordings and they were healed.

19:51But the problem is they put their emphasis on the healing towards the tape.

19:56They said, I listened to this tape.

19:58They didn't say God healed me.

20:00They said, I listened to the tape and then I got healed.

20:03And where's God in that connection?

20:05So are they worshiping the tape?

20:07Are they worshiping the man who's recorded on the tape?

20:09I just came to terms with the fact that, yes, maybe they did get healed, but they are very

20:15strongly mistaken as to where the healing came from.

20:18Absolutely.

20:19And there's a prime example of that.

20:21My mother called me one day when I was 17.

20:23I had a full-time job working as a housekeeper, live-in housekeeper.

20:27And once again, because of daddy's insistence and mama's just, she just turned from me.

20:36I needed my mother.

20:37I needed my mother.

20:39I was still a teenager.

20:40And, you know, that's when you really need your mama and your daddy.

20:43Well, they were pushing me so hard and stuck a tape in my purse.

20:47And I thought, you know what?

20:48I'm going to listen to this.

20:49I was at work and it was evening and the healing line was going on.

20:59And my mother called me right about then.

21:02And I picked up the phone, turned it up, picked up the phone.

21:04And she said, I need you to pray.

21:06This is the funny thing.

21:08I've got to throw this in.

21:09I'm the black sheep.

21:10I'm the one who's wrong.

21:12But every single time somebody needed healing or intervention, guess who they called?

21:18And they would say, pray this way.

21:20And I'd say, I will pray that the Lord's will be done.

21:23It's all I know.

21:24And the Lord answered a lot of those prayers.

21:27So even though I was useless and dirty, my prayers were answered and they never connected it.

21:34So she said, I've just fallen down and I'm sure my leg is broken.

21:39And what's it look like?

21:40Well, it's big and black and I have it elevated and I can't stand on it.

21:45She started crying.

21:46Oh, it hurts so bad.

21:47I said, touch it, chand on it.

21:50And she did.

21:51And I said, and I was, I just asked the Lord if he just please heal her.

21:56And we just kind of talked a little bit.

21:58And then I said, how's your leg?

22:01And she went, oh, it's not black.

22:04It's not swollen and it doesn't hurt.

22:07She said, I've been walking around talking.

22:09I didn't notice.

22:11She said, have you been listening to the tapes?

22:13And I said, I had one on, but Jesus healed you.

22:16It was Jesus.

22:18Jesus healed you.

22:19Nobody else.

22:21Not me.

22:21Not him.

22:22And she would tell that story often.

22:24And so you have that where you can see it and turn your head from it.

22:29And what's interesting about that story, by the same logic that they got healed because

22:35of the tape, they should have said, I got healed because of the telephone.

22:39Because it's coming through the telephone.

22:41They just, you know, it's misguided or misdirected focus.

22:45And that's really the problem.

22:47And when you misdirect focus for so many years, you start to lose sight of reality.

22:53And the bigger thing that I've come to realize is we were in a world that did not really exist.

22:58We were in a world where people were creating squirrels just so that they could shoot them

23:02and things that are just unbelievable.

23:04He claimed he had a magic sword.

23:06William Branham claimed he had a magic sword.

23:08And I never really, I was a grown adult who never really thought about how silly that was.

23:14And yet I'm also a reader of fiction and fantasy.

23:19I've read King Arthur.

23:20I've read all of the tales of magic swords knowing that they were fiction.

23:24How did I not know that that was fiction?

23:27And I was left with this thought.

23:30People who are highly intelligent are actually more susceptible to this because they get so

23:35tired through the week working with their brain.

23:38They come into church Sunday and they just shut their brain off.

23:41So everything that is said, it just goes right in without any critical thinking.

23:44And you believe in magic swords and created squirrels.

23:49Well, you see, every lie has to have an element of truth to it to be believed.

23:56And we have that double-edged sword, which is the word of God.

24:00So he had to, you know, I'll take a piece of that too.

24:03And I'll screw that up for humanity.

24:08It's just no good.

24:10What do you do with it?

24:12No, it's no good.

24:13And, you know, we had relics.

24:15We had clouds and halos and all of this stuff.

24:18And you can, even in some of the churches, there are photographs you can look at online.

24:22They're worshiping these insane objects rather than Jesus.

24:26And yet, they don't really recognize they're doing it.

24:29They'll say, I'm worshiping Jesus.

24:31No, these are just objects off to the side.

24:33Well, why do you have them in the church, man?

24:35Why would you have a cloud in the church?

24:37Speaking of magic and all this stuff, when I, the first picture I saw of the cloud,

24:46I said, wow.

24:49And I had friends, acquaintances in the message in Tucson.

24:54See, I also met Perry Green.

24:56I've been to Marconda's church.

24:59I've been around.

25:00I hear you mentioning these churches.

25:02And it's like, yeah, I relate to that.

25:03I've been there.

25:05And so, this one sweet, sweet, sweet young lady, she had this cloud and she had the lines

25:14around all the angels in the clouds.

25:17And I said, well, you missed one because this is a tip of a wing.

25:21And I'm being facetious.

25:23And she goes, oh, you're right.

25:26And it's like, no.

25:29So, I was in Civil Air Patrol at a very young age because, like I said, I loved to fly.

25:34I've read a myriad of books on flight and pilots and all this fun stuff.

25:40And I happened to know that when you break the sound barrier, you can have a cloud.

25:46It can create a cloud.

25:48And I was pretty much, I knew that was the truth until I heard it was a rocket that was

25:55set off.

25:55And it's like, okay, cleared that up.

25:57But it wasn't a man revealing the seven seals.

26:04I wrote Revelations.

26:07There is one, a lamb that appeared to have been slain.

26:12And he took the book.

26:14He opened the book.

26:16Nobody else.

26:17And it was just one more thing.

26:19It's like, oh, Lord.

26:21How?

26:21I told Daddy about the cloud.

26:24I said, yeah, sound.

26:25Somebody broke the sound barrier.

26:27Years are right.

26:29Places are right.

26:30Everything is right.

26:31It was a sound barrier.

26:33For me, it was a distraction.

26:35Because after I left, I started going through that.

26:38So for people who don't know, William Branham claimed that there was this mysterious cloud.

26:42You can look it up on the internet, the cloud of 1963.

26:46And he believed that that was seven angels coming to give him the revelation of the seven seals and that

26:52he opened the seven seals.

26:54And it was a distraction because after I left, I'm reading the Bible.

26:57And how did I not realize that the Bible said no man is worthy to open the seals?

27:02We were looking so intently at the cloud that we didn't even stop to look at what the Bible actually

27:07said about the event.

27:09And I was showing that to a friend of mine who happened to be in the message.

27:14I was trying to help some people out, and it failed miserably because they're so indoctrinated.

27:20And they started to say, well, he was more than a man.

27:23They started to say, this was more than a man.

27:25This was God and the man, John.

27:27And I stopped and thought about it, and I just don't see anything in Scripture that would point to a

27:33Jesus man who's coming in the last day.

27:35It talks about Christ's return, but you have to add text to the Bible to make it work.

27:41And for me, that was the biggest problem.

27:42I just simply could not add text to the Bible.

27:45Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter

27:53reign,

27:53charismatic, and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation?

27:58You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.

28:06On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,

28:14John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

28:19You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.

28:26If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the

28:32top.

28:33And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or

28:39watching.

28:39On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.

28:45I mentioned at the beginning of the show that I'm really fascinated to talk to you because I wanted to

28:50talk to somebody who was a child of the message who wasn't in the message.

28:54In other words, somebody who's in the family of a message-believing family who doesn't believe it, and everybody knows

29:01that they don't believe it.

29:02It is such an oddity to talk to somebody who's been in that situation because most children break.

29:09It really takes a person who has a strong will and, in your case, strong convictions to stand their ground.

29:17And people just simply, they don't know what to do whenever somebody who's in the cult stands their ground.

29:23It defies all of their logic.

29:26And so I'm really interested to talk to you.

29:28I know that just simply based on my experience, there were things that happened to me because of my belief

29:36set that impacted the rest of my life.

29:39And it will probably still, to some extent, impact the rest of my life.

29:43Some of the ways that we were trained while we were in that mindset was so wrong.

29:48And yet, at the same time, those are the years, the early years of your childhood.

29:53That's your developmental years.

29:54So you really struggle with things.

29:56And I look back at some of the triggers that I have now, for example, some of the things that

30:02no other person who wasn't in this movement will ever have to fight.

30:07And yet, my day, from day to day, you still struggle with some of these things because it was so

30:13bad.

30:13And that's me who's in a family unit that all had the same mindset.

30:19Now take it a step further to somebody who's far, far more difficult, somebody who was in the mindset for

30:26a period of time, broke away while still a child, and then suddenly everybody turns against them.

30:32That's got to be hard.

30:34What are some of the struggles that you struggle with?

30:36Oh, I think I started to say earlier, I couldn't read the King James for like 20 years.

30:42And I prayed, and I wanted to read it because I know that's the right one.

30:46And I knew then that the others were saying things that just wasn't proper.

30:50It's like the same person didn't write these as the one who wrote the King James.

30:58It's different.

30:59Things that are different are not the same.

31:01But I read those because I needed the Bible.

31:04And every time I would read the King James, I would hear that voice misinterpreting it.

31:09And it's so ingrained that you have to – I had to get away from it.

31:13And I kept praying, Lord, take that voice.

31:15Take that voice.

31:16Remove it from me.

31:17Clean me up.

31:19This is horrible.

31:20And he did.

31:22Exactly.

31:22I mean, people take for granted just how hard it is for somebody who has been indoctrinated with Branham's message.

31:28I've talked to many different people who have escaped different groups.

31:33And I will say that of the groups that we've been examining and of the people that we've been working

31:38with, the ones who come out of Branham are really, really struggling.

31:42The ones who come out of the other groups, yes, they're struggling.

31:45And I'm not going to make light of their journey.

31:48It's a hard journey no matter what group it is.

31:50But those who are indoctrinated with Branhamism, it is so incredibly hard because it is so many levels more destructive.

31:57And you have to have a support group.

31:59Did you have anybody who was helping you while you were going through all of this?

32:04I have a dear friend who we talk about the word all the time.

32:08I mean, we're just constantly in it.

32:11And about 2017, I was doing an online Bible study, actually a course in ministry.

32:19And no, I'm not a woman preacher.

32:21No, I don't go there.

32:24Because the Bible said so.

32:26But I sure can share the word of God.

32:29And I want to know it before I share it.

32:31So I'm reading through all this.

32:33And I was using a different Bible at the time, but it turned to NIV or something.

32:37And I read something out of it.

32:39And this is the most gentle, sweet Christian man.

32:43And after I read that, he stopped.

32:45He was real quiet.

32:46And he said, what the was that?

32:52And I said, well, I wanted to further exaggerate.

32:57I wanted his honest opinion.

32:59I said, oh, they're all the same.

33:00And boy, did I get an earful.

33:02I said, good.

33:03This is a good man.

33:05You know, people who are never in this would never relate to what you just said.

33:09I do.

33:10I still struggle.

33:12And I avoid reading the King James.

33:15I still do.

33:16Right now, I prefer the ESV.

33:18But I'm kind of indifferent.

33:19What I really prefer is I'll go back and I'll read some of the, there's some study tools online where

33:25you can read like the interlinear version.

33:27So you can see the root of how all of the languages are translated.

33:31So I prefer to study like that, but just casual reading.

33:35I prefer ESV because in my mind, for somebody who was never in this, picture Hitler reading the King James

33:44Version to you your entire life with that same screaming tone, inclination, that same intonation I meant to say.

33:52That was exactly what we heard when we heard him reading.

33:55And it was just so, it was like, you know, scratching on the chalkboard.

34:00That's how awful it was.

34:02So after you left and you realize that not only did he not understand what it was, even what he

34:08was reading, he purposefully added things that weren't there to make himself exalted.

34:15And there's so many Bible passages in the New Testament about he who exalts himself.

34:19I won't even go into those.

34:20When you realize that he was doing the things that he did to exalt himself and he was screaming at

34:26you while he did it, it becomes like a cat screeching.

34:30You just can't take it.

34:31And so I'm, I relate, I read the ESV, I do study with different tools, and at times I do

34:38have to go back and read the King James Version because there are certain phrases and passages in the ESV

34:44that you read and you think, that's not right.

34:46I remember something different.

34:47And you have to go back to the translation and say, oh, I see why it was translated like that.

34:52And there's also some odd things about it.

34:55Some of the words and phrases that they use in the old Queen's English don't actually translate in the same

35:01way today as they did back then.

35:03There are examples of kidneys, for example, that they use entirely different language.

35:08So I read the ESV, but that screeching Hitler voice, when you said it, I actually got triggered from that.

35:15Well, I love you with all my kidney.

35:17We don't say that anymore.

35:20But I want other people to understand, especially women, you're not worthless.

35:26God did not let the devil design you.

35:29We're designed by the same loving hands that created Adam.

35:35Eve did take of the fruit, whatever that is.

35:38I don't think it was what he said it was.

35:40I truly believe it was just disobedience, because if you read the Bible, that's what you come up with.

35:46They disobeyed.

35:47In other words, it wasn't sex, like the man tried to claim by adding to the Bible.

35:52They could have pulled a cat's tail.

35:53It was disobedience that made all the difference.

35:58And, yes, Eve is the one that is recorded, and I believe every word in the Bible she's recorded, is

36:03being the one who broke that.

36:05Where was Adam?

36:07Was he protecting her?

36:09And I'm not putting blame anywhere.

36:11I'm just evening out the playing field.

36:14Where was Adam when she was talking to the serpent?

36:18Was he running, honey?

36:19No, no, no, no, no, no.

36:21Come here, come here.

36:21Get away from that.

36:22Did he do that?

36:23Did he say, oh, no, no, don't eat it?

36:25No, he took a bite also.

36:27We're all dirt.

36:30I'll never forget whenever I came to that realization.

36:32It hit me like a brick wall.

36:35I just, you know, we were taught that you had to find all these secret mysteries, and you could unlock

36:40the keys of the Bible.

36:42So weird that you had to turn it into this mystery book when so much of it is just easily,

36:47plainly read and understood.

36:49Even the passage that says it's of no private interpretation means that you can read it.

36:54And they twisted that into some weird mystery.

36:57But coming to the realization that it really didn't matter what Eve did, what Adam and Eve did, I should

37:03say.

37:03It really didn't matter the fact that the Bible is just simply telling you they disobeyed God, and that was

37:09the big deal.

37:10That was the problem, that they disobeyed God.

37:12And then this is coming from a person who is preaching, who is disobeying God in his very sermons, because

37:19he's promoting himself.

37:20He's pointing to himself and exalting himself.

37:24When that hit me, it's really, really hard to listen to more of it.

37:28When we listened to these recordings of Branham from 1947 to 1965, these recordings were made, we listened to them

37:35over and over and over again.

37:37And we thought that it was a blessed experience.

37:40Like you're talking about your family who healed from the prayer lines.

37:44We thought that you could access God through the recordings.

37:46That's how it was.

37:47Well, once you pick up on the fact that he is manipulating people, it's entirely different.

37:54You hear the same thing, and you're like, I can't believe that I listened to that.

37:58That's horrible, what he's saying.

38:00The problem is, by the time you come to that realization, the damage is already done.

38:04And there are people who really struggle from the indoctrination.

38:07There are people who, like myself, you have to get into counseling sometimes, go see a therapist, just to try

38:13to unravel what they did to your head.

38:15And there are times I feel like my head has been tangled into spaghetti.

38:21And I've recommended to people many times, if you've been in this type of movement, you need to find a

38:29strong support group that can help you to overcome some of these things.

38:33I've been there.

38:35And I've helped a lot of people by just explaining that they need to read their Bible.

38:40And if you have any questions, maybe we can figure something out.

38:43Maybe the Lord will show this to you in a different way he showed me that fits your life right

38:47now.

38:49It's amazing.

38:51I sew for the military.

38:53I've done that for, I don't know, 15, 20 years.

38:56So I have met a lot, a lot of young men and women in this service.

39:02And my whole goal is, yes, I'll put the patches on your uniform and I'll let out the waist for

39:08you, but you're going to hear the word of God.

39:11And we visit while I'm sewing or just not sewing.

39:15We just visit because the whole goal is to just let them hear the name of Jesus.

39:19You know, that's really the odd part about this.

39:22I grew up in the movement.

39:23I know exactly the doctrines.

39:26I know exactly the theology that he was preaching.

39:28I know why he did it.

39:30I've studied the history behind it.

39:32And he used the name Jesus.

39:34So to the outsider who comes in, they think they're hearing a Christian sermon.

39:39He's using the name Jesus.

39:40Jesus Christ would imply Christian.

39:43And anybody who thinks along that line, she might think, well, this is a Christian church.

39:48These are Christian people.

39:49They believe in Christ.

39:50But when you have to believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and you must believe in this end

39:57-time prophet or this Christ is going to destroy you and we're going to be very angry against you.

40:03We're going to cut you off.

40:04If you doubt the prophet, we're going to cast you out of our circles.

40:09I mean, it is awful what they do.

40:11It drives people into places where psychologically they're bleeding on the inside.

40:17There are people – I've worked with the support groups with people who just are struggling so heavily because the

40:25version of God that they've been taught is not the God of the Bible.

40:28It's a threatening wrath, vengeance God that is coming down to just destroy their lives.

40:34You're either going to obey our prophet or we're going to be destroyed.

40:39You're going to be destroyed.

40:39That's the type of theology, and that's not the Jesus of the New Testament.

40:44So there are people who leave the message and some of these other groups.

40:49They leave, and they leave God altogether, and they think mistakenly that they're atheist.

40:55There are people who leave, and they're actually breaking down a false god.

41:00But who's there to lift them back up?

41:02That's really the problem.

41:04People who are going through this, they're struggling in ways that they should never have been injured in the first

41:10place from a church.

41:11This is supposed to be a Christian church.

41:13I talked to one of my brothers, and I realized just how silly the whole thing was because all he

41:21could tell me – he's quite a bit younger than me – and all he could tell me when I

41:24say,

41:25who is Branham to you, and what he focused on is my spell check, didn't put a capital B, and

41:34that was his reply.

41:35Well, you're being rude.

41:36You didn't even capitalize a surname.

41:40And I said, well, maybe we can sue Google.

41:44I don't know.

41:45Let's get back to this.

41:46Who was he?

41:47Who is he to you?

41:50And he can't answer that.

41:52And he was born the November before the December that Branham was killed.

41:57He grew up in it.

41:58I get that.

42:00You know, I've come to the conclusion that you almost can't be in the movement and not believe that William

42:06Branham was God.

42:07And you might not outright say it.

42:09You might not say Branham is God, but you believed it in some way, shape, or form because you put

42:14him so far above every other human being.

42:17And the way my grandfather would put it, he was a man, but he was more than a man.

42:22Or he might say, this was God tabernacled in human flesh.

42:26So he would always talk about the human, but he would also associate God with the human.

42:31So therefore, you have – if you understand how this works, you have a demigod.

42:36That's really what they're worshiping, is a demigod.

42:39And it's just so sad.

42:40It destroys lives.

42:41It destroys families.

42:43Now, you have multiple siblings, right?

42:45And you were able to reconcile with one of your sisters, if I remember correctly.

42:49So this one of them, she – when she was diagnosed with cancer, she called me because I'm the one

42:57that prays.

42:58And we talked.

43:00We talked for two years.

43:01And then six weeks before she passed, I went and she wanted me to come and just be with her.

43:08So I lived with her.

43:09I stayed on the couch beside her and took care of her and loved her.

43:12It was beautiful.

43:13It was a wonderful experience because about a year, a little over a year before she passed,

43:19she asked me what nobody else would ask me.

43:22What do you not like about this man?

43:25What's the one thing?

43:27So I started reading scriptures.

43:30And she said, but doesn't this mean that?

43:35I said, what does it say?

43:37Well, it says.

43:38And one day she started crying and she said, I am so sorry for the way I treated you.

43:44She said, don't worry about it.

43:46We're good.

43:47Just follow Christ.

43:49And I know it's probably unusual.

43:52People don't hear this a lot.

43:53But she had a beautiful passing where she was in total peace.

43:57And it was good because she got out of it.

44:00And we were able to celebrate the Lord.

44:03We just didn't talk about tapes or any of that.

44:05Now and then she'd say, do you remember when he said this and that?

44:08And I go, yeah.

44:10And she'd just start laughing.

44:15But it's so ingrained.

44:18The day after she passed, the same brother I was mentioning was there.

44:22His wife was sitting beside me on the couch.

44:25He was sitting in the recliner where she had been for a couple months.

44:29And he's rocking it.

44:31And he says, oh, I'm just so glad that she knew Brother Branham.

44:36I said, let me tell you something funny about that.

44:39For over a year, she didn't.

44:41She found Christ.

44:42She was saved.

44:43And she went home.

44:45I can't even imagine how they would have reacted.

44:48I have been in similar situations after having left the message.

44:51And it's really odd because you would think that you could get around a group of Christian people who are

44:57believing in Christ.

44:58And you could talk about salvation in the normal way, in the Christian way.

45:02They believed in Christ and therefore they're saved.

45:05And they'll actually get angry at you if you were once a message believer and you left and are no

45:11longer a message believer.

45:12That is, they have bound their entire view of salvation in that.

45:17So if you're a Christian and you're saved because Jesus saved you, in their mind, it's actually not good enough.

45:22And his wife jumped up like a jack-in-the-box and ran into the kitchen with her face in

45:29her hands.

45:30And my brother looked at me and he said, you better be careful.

45:34You've heard that.

45:35Oh, be careful.

45:36Be careful.

45:37And I said, you know what?

45:39I can talk about any false prophet under the sun.

45:42And look, the ceiling didn't fall.

45:45And it won't.

45:46And it still hasn't.

45:48And it's been years ago.

45:51Yeah, that's really the sad part about this.

45:53I think there are a lot of people in the movement who would really like to enjoy Christian fellowship with

46:00other Christian people.

46:02But they've actually been trained and manipulated to be so afraid of doing anything that doesn't meet the standards of

46:09the movement.

46:10And what's really sad is now he's dead and gone.

46:13Branham is dead and gone.

46:14The movement is going further and further and further into destruction.

46:17And what seems to be happening, because most people would just leave, this movement is, it's not healthy to be

46:25in it.

46:25From mind, body, and soul, it's not healthy.

46:28They have to find new ways of captivating them by fear.

46:31So the fear of what's happening in the movement now is so far worse than even whenever I left.

46:37It's that dreadful fear.

46:39Fear confines you and you're controllable.

46:42Get rid of the fear.

46:43Take that love of Christ.

46:45But you don't see any love in those tapes.

46:47Oh, he'll pretend it for a while, but then he goes right back to his normal self.

46:52And it's like, no.

46:53Well, I'm so glad you did this.

46:54Thank you so much for sharing your story.

46:56I am so glad.

46:57You won't even find a picture of me on Facebook.

47:00This is how far beyond my limits I have gone with this, okay?

47:04And I just want the world to know there's freedom and love and joy and peace.

47:13Oh, yeah, there's life, too.

47:14But all of this is something that you don't find there.

47:19I cut my bangs.

47:21I'm not in hell.

47:22It's okay.

47:23You question everybody but God.

47:26Just believe God.

47:27Read your Bible.

47:29Trust him.

47:29He doesn't need anybody else.

47:32Yes, there are preachers.

47:34Many are saved by listening to preachers.

47:36But they will point you to Christ, not themselves.

47:41Absolutely.

47:42Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information or to share your story,

47:45you can check us out on the web.

47:46You can find us at william-branham.org.

47:49For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation,

47:52you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

47:56Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

48:13Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

48:14Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

48:15Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

48:16Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

48:18Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

48:20Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

48:22Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

Her Family Followed Branham. She Chose Jesus | Our Stories | 723

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