- 1 hour ago
A debate unfolds over the Election Commission of India and the electoral verification process, featuring Bharatiya Janata Party National Spokesperson Pradeep Bhandari, Congress National Spokesperson Brijesh Kalappa, and Shiv Sena spokesperson Susie Shah. Bhandari defends the constitutional validity and consensus-driven functioning of the Election Commission, asserting that 'street anarchy cannot replace representative democracy' and criticising the opposition for crying foul only upon facing electoral defeats. Kalappa counters by accusing the ruling party of weaponising the poll watchdog and facilitating mass disenfranchisement, alleging that nearly 44 lakh voter deletions were attempted in Karnataka using Form 7. Meanwhile, Shah rejects the Congress allegations as baseless narratives lacking legal affidavits, defending the voter roll rationalisation and corrective measures. The panellists spar fiercely over EVMs, electoral integrity, and political legitimacy across key states including Karnataka, Maharashtra, and Telangana.
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00:00And joining us now in this show are our guests. Let me introduce them. Susi Benj Shah, spokesperson of Shiv
00:06Sena Shinde.
00:07Rajesh Kalapa, national spokesperson of Congress. Pradeep Bhandari, national spokesperson of the BJP. Join us now.
00:14Welcome. I begin with you, Mr. Bhandari.
00:17You know, this controversy does push us to ask this question that shouldn't a person sitting on a constitutional post
00:24and one of the highest constitutional posts be above and beyond any sort of a doubt?
00:35An individual who is sitting on a constitutional post is accountable to the Constitution of India,
00:41is not accountable to the executive, neither is he accountable to the political opposition.
00:45The Supreme Court of India in 2024, when it was listing the case of SIR, said and I quote
00:50that SIR is necessary for a free and fair election. So the Guardian of the Constitution of India Supreme Court
00:57not once but multiple times has said that the SIR is necessary for a free and fair election.
01:02Along with that, the Supreme Court has not even passed one judgment, one observation against the Election Commission.
01:08All of us who study the law and have basic common sense of constitutional law and know the Constitution of
01:13India,
01:13know that Election Commission as a body does not pass a judgment unilaterally.
01:18In fact, it is passed through consensus. And that is what you saw in note of the Election Commission.
01:22In fact, if any Election Commissioner had an issue with the Chief Election Commissioner,
01:26they could veto it by ganging up as you saw in the case of N. Gopal Swami versus Naveen Chawla
01:32when Mr. S. Y. Koreshi's vote was considered...
01:34So you feel that the questions being raised by the opposition are frivolous?
01:42They are political questions. They do not have any legitimacy because with the same machinery,
01:47the Congress Party has won elections in multiple states and it was completely silent in Mam
01:51when it won the elections in Kerala, when it won the election in Karnataka or in Himachal Pradesh.
01:55So for that amount of time, it was completely silent, which tells you that all of this is mere political
02:00criticism
02:01because they have understood that democratically now they are not able to get the support of the people of India.
02:06So they are attempting to create a democratic deficit and people are seeing through this.
02:09This is why in Mumbai, common people oppose this B team of the Amadli Party.
02:14You have individuals coming out across streets and opposing them.
02:16Okay, Mr. Bhandari, let's take that argument that you are giving right now to Mr. Kalappa.
02:23Mr. Kalappa, Mr. Bhandari says that it is very convenient for you when you win the elections
02:28and you do not raise questions on the ballot, but now you are raising questions when you lose.
02:33What is your answer to that?
02:36See, I think it's an absolutely ridiculous argument, which I think, let's assume,
02:43the BJP has, I think, today two MLAs in Kerala.
02:47And given the state of their popularity, supposing the BJP were declared the winners, what would happen?
02:53It would result in a public revolt.
02:55If they had won and say Tamil Nadu, what would have happened?
02:58It would have resulted in a public revolt.
03:00So it doesn't mean that we are saying the BJP is a set of fools.
03:04They also employ the election commission effectively where the people are giving them 30% of the vote, 25%
03:15of the vote.
03:16So the election commission helps them to cross the line.
03:19So this continuous obstacles are being placed in the path of the other opposition parties to ensure that the BJP
03:27is ahead.
03:28And this is exactly what Mr. Rahul Gandhi has said, that time and time again, we have seen that anti
03:34-incumbency works against other political parties, doesn't work against the BJP.
03:40Now, point is this, if the BJP were so popular, as the BJP spokesperson is now claiming,
03:47the BJP national president makes an announcement and says that, look, why don't you all light a dia because it's
03:54Prime Minister Modi's birthday on the 17th of September?
03:57Have you personally, has any of your viewers personally seen anybody lighting a lamp?
04:03Mr. Kalappa, now we are sort of going away from the main issue, but the core issue...
04:08What is this?
04:08The popularity is at its peak.
04:09I'll answer that.
04:11Okay, go ahead, Mr. Bhandari.
04:17I think it's a very childish and immature argument.
04:20If I extend that argument, he's calling that Rahul Gandhi, who is one Rahul Gandhi in the Gandhi Varda family,
04:26who is one from Raibar Ali in Amiti, is illegal.
04:28So, I think when 2024 Lok Sabha election took place, they should have resigned and not taken oath as the
04:34Member of Parliament.
04:35Before the current CEC was the Chief Election Commissioner, we won 45 elections and lost 20.
04:39So, it's a very childish and immature argument and please note, certain political protesters who come on the street do
04:45not represent the Indian democracy where there is a silent majority and the representative democracy is governed by a silent
04:51majority, not by street anarchy, point number one.
04:54And I have a simple, very basic question.
04:55If they believe that the entire system is flawed, please ask D.K. Shiv Kumar to do resignation in Karnataka
05:00because Karnataka is a bipolar fight between the BJP and Congress.
05:03Ask Mr. Sukku to resign from Himachal Pradesh.
05:05Ask Mr. Rahul Gandhi to tender his resignation as a Member of Parliament.
05:09Ask Mrs. Vardara to tender her resignation and say that you will not fight the upcoming elections which is there.
05:14When the EVM case went to the court, what did the Supreme Court say?
05:18When you win, EVMs are fine.
05:19When you lose, EVMs are wrong.
05:20So, this is a settled question.
05:23This is just the old white and new bottom and people are seeing through this.
05:26Okay, Mr. Kalapa, I do see that you have a counter for that.
05:30But let me please bring in…
05:31I'll just say one thing.
05:33I'll just say one thing.
05:35Just one thing.
05:36See, I'm only trying to say that I think as a matter of strategy, the BJP which used to be
05:42run by Chanakya's and so on and so forth, they have caught themselves in a bind.
05:46No political party should be seen as standing with an election commission which is so completely, so completely doctrinalized in
05:56the eyes of the people.
05:57And today, the BJP is standing totally with the election commission.
06:03I can assure you.
06:04Let's just put a pause on that because it's becoming difficult to understand both of you.
06:11Let me take the conversation to Ms. Shah as well.
06:13She's been waiting patiently.
06:14Ms. Shah, your party has had an experience with the election commission as well because you've gone to them.
06:20You've had your own pleas there.
06:23While Trinamul chooses, that is the Mamata faction, chooses to assail it, you choose to support the election commission.
06:30So, what is your stand on what Congress is saying?
06:35Now, I will just say this, that what Mr. Kalappa is trying to sell to the nation is a figment
06:41of imagination.
06:41And the people have seen through it, as rightly pointed out Mr. Vandari, Karnataka, we were neck in neck.
06:48How could Congress win through if so-called, so-called maneuvering has happened?
06:52So, it is election commission is a constitutional body and it says so.
06:56And yes, you can question the election commission, you could question.
07:00And the election commission rightly so has come up with corrective measures.
07:04While the so-called protests are going on, they are nothing but spreading rumors, lies,
07:09because none of them, any of, none of them or either of them have come out with an affidavit
07:15giving out specific instances.
07:17No instances have been given.
07:19The matter is before the Supreme Court on the 5th of October.
07:22We have no doubt in the mind that as earlier in the month of May...
07:26But let's look at the political aspect of it as well, Ms. Shah.
07:30The two Thakre brothers have joined hands.
07:33We are seeing massive protests in Mumbai as well.
07:36The Thakre brothers have joined hands as a matter of convenience.
07:40It is a matter of relevance.
07:42As far as one party is concerned, they are extinct.
07:46And the other party has not a single MLA, MP or a corporator.
07:50So, therefore, it is there.
07:51It is, they are there because it is there for their relevance.
07:55Not about Marathi Manus or Mumbaikar or SIR.
07:59And I will also tell you this, when they were in BMC, what have they adhered to and left to
08:05the Marathi Manus?
08:06No.
08:07The people of India, the people of Maharashtra, the people of Mumbai have given resounding mandate
08:13to the Mahayuti government and Shiv Sena.
08:16We are committed that not a single person who is eligible should be left out.
08:22Everyone should be included.
08:24But this 13 crore that has been ongoing, let us understand, that includes people who have died.
08:30It includes people who have shifted residences.
08:33And that's not final.
08:35We have taken correct, the commission has taken corrective measures.
08:41They have ensured that everyone is heard.
08:44The DLO is going to go to their homes.
08:47I will quickly shift our focus to Mr. Kalapa because I will come back to you for that argument, ma
08:54'am.
08:54One second, one second.
08:56The problem arises because these opposition parties don't have foot soldiers on the ground.
09:02They don't have BLAs who would go trace out if there is wrong.
09:07So, they are just making a fake narrative, having a facade which is going to break.
09:13Okay, let's now give Mr. Kalapa an opportunity.
09:16Mr. Kalapa, while you have your argument ready, I also want to add a question to it.
09:21You know, Malik Arjun Kharge says that you should dissolve all the assemblies.
09:26He lists out a list of it and switch to paper ballot.
09:30I mean, this is a little bit of a high, a tall order that you are asking for.
09:36See, the mood of the nation is such.
09:39I don't think that anybody can deny that this is the mood of the nation, whether in Bombay, whether in
09:44Delhi, whether in other parts of the country.
09:46And today, the BJP is completely on the back foot.
09:49They have really compromised their own position by standing with a compromised election commission.
09:56I don't know why the BJP has to make such a big blunder.
09:59This is the worst political blunder.
10:02And they call themselves Chanakya.
10:04So, this is the worst political blunder, one.
10:07Two, as far as, say, Karnataka is concerned, now we have recorded that nearly 44 lakh votes were being sought
10:14to be deleted.
10:15And all of them belonging to particular cross-sections of society.
10:20I, BJP workers, one has filed 7,000 deletions under Form 7.
10:27And these are the kind of deletions which are being worked out by members of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
10:32How do they do it?
10:34They have a printed form in which the epic number of the voter has been given.
10:40At least 7 to 8 people who have been caught on this have already stated that, no, sorry, we are
10:48wrong.
10:48Prime officer, they have already apologized.
10:51They have already said, like, that, look, we were, you know, completely wrong in having done what we have been
10:56doing.
10:57So, this is the extent of disenfranchisement that the BJP is doing.
11:01So, this is the kind of thing that we are now, you know, throwing open to the public.
11:06And this is the reason why the public is reacting in such a manner.
11:10Okay.
11:10You're raising the Telangana issue here.
11:13Why are you not giving it in writing?
11:15Why are you not giving an affidavit?
11:17Simple question.
11:18When you go before the Supreme Court also, you have to give it an affidavit.
11:22Why are you not giving it in writing, specific cases, specific, specific complaints, because it is only that you have
11:32to whip up public...
11:32I think finally the Telangana issue has been given by the Congress, I think.
11:37Am I right, Mr. Kalappa?
11:38Finally, that has been...
11:39No, Telangana, I'm Karnataka.
11:4244 lakh in Karnataka.
11:44More in Telangana.
11:45Similar modus operandi.
11:48Exactly the same way.
11:50A Congress worker's case has been mentioned along with 30 family members.
11:54If the BJP is so popular, why are you deleting them?
11:57Mr. Bhandari, I'll now ask you, of course, you have your argument ready, as I can see.
12:04But one quick question as a rejoinder.
12:08Why is BJP defending the Election Commission?
12:11Let the Election Commission do the job itself.
12:17Ma'am, why is the Congress Party doing a press conference based on a source-based story of a newspaper
12:23which quoted two Election Commissioners, which we've never seen in public domain?
12:27So what is the Congress Party quoting?
12:28Is Congress quoting somebody from Mars or is Congress hypothetically quoting two Election Commissioners
12:32which was rejected by the Election Commission together by the three CCs?
12:35In fact, today the Congress should apologize to all the three CCs.
12:38What was Rahul Gandhi quoting?
12:40Rahul Gandhi quoted, quote-unquote, two Election Commissioners, right?
12:42And in fact, padded on the back that they did a good job.
12:44After that, the three Election Commissioners came out and said,
12:47what Rahul is saying is lying.
12:48All of our decisions are consensus.
12:49What has happened is Rahul Gandhi in Congress Party is a lazy party.
12:53It has understood that a democraticality is completely cut off from the ground.
12:56It has lost 90 elections.
12:58It has not repeated a single government.
13:00So now it is attempting to create a democratic deficit.
13:03They start up in the morning, get up in the morning, decide which way they have to do a protest.
13:07Then they do a protest and then they do party.
13:09Because their 6.8 lakh BLOs across states have not filed a single complaint in the Supreme Court.
13:14Same drama they had done in Bihar.
13:16When it went to the Bombay High Court, Bombay High Court, in fact, when the Maharashtra case went to the
13:21Bombay High Court, Bombay High Court said,
13:22our time is wasted.
13:23The Bihar case went to the Supreme Court.
13:24Nothing was found on evidence.
13:26So the Congress Party is a party which is only and only become a real-based party.
13:30And I am not saying this, Rahul Gandhi said.
13:32Let's take the case of Bengal.
13:33Congress is saying that if you will vote in Bengal, listen to what Rahul Gandhi was saying before elections.
13:48So the Congress has started to hate the people of the country.
13:52Everybody is seeing through the Congress Party.
13:54Let them enjoy their protests.
13:55The silent majority will give a befitting reply to these Congresses.
13:58And they are digging their own graves, political graves, by doing all of this.
14:02A silent minority cannot, or a street anarchy cannot hijack the democracy.
14:08This is not what I have said.
14:09This is what Baba Sai Bhim Rao Ambedkar has said.
14:11Okay.
14:11Mr. Kalappa already has his hand up.
14:13Yes.
14:14Please go ahead.
14:15See, this silent majority argument, I must tell you, I have made use of that argument in 2011.
14:23As the Congress spokesperson, I have made use of this argument in 2011.
14:27And I can tell you, in 2014, when the wave came, I didn't even know what hit me.
14:34So I can assure my friend in the BJP that a similar argument is being made by him,
14:39and he will not know what hits them in 2029.
14:42Mr. Kalappa, Narendra Modi will again be the Prime Minister, and you will not know what has hit you.
14:47You have got a pattern in 2018.
14:49You have got an impeachment motion against the Chiefs of India, Deepak Mishra.
14:53Please remain in the state of complete denial, and I encourage you to remain in the state of denial.
15:00Mr. Kalappa, you will sit in opposition because you are an anti-people party.
15:03Narendra Modi ji will be the Prime Minister again, with a resounding pattern by the people of the country.
15:07Given to you.
15:08Please remain in denial.
15:10I encourage the BJP to remain in denial.
15:13In fact, you should up your anti and fully support the election commission.
15:18I have gotchas in favor of the election commission.
15:21This is what I encourage you to.
15:22I'll give the last minute to Ms. Shah, because Ms. Shah, please go ahead.
15:28I think we need to ask the gentleman to pipe down a little bit.
15:31Ms. Shah, please, you have about 50 seconds.
15:34I just have to say this, that as far as Maharashtra is concerned, Mahayuti is concerned, we are committed to
15:40ensuring all elected, all citizens of India should be given a right to vote.
15:45Stop spreading wrong narratives.
15:47People are with us.
15:48People have seen Tudris, and you will see in the near future that not only the people who are supposed
15:55to be voting will be with us, we are committed to ensuring that justice is done.
16:01And Uddhav Thakre, the brothers, should not spread false narrative.
16:07As far as the unity is concerned in Maharashtra is concerned, today, Sharath Pawar has not said a word against
16:13the SIR.
16:14As far as the Thakre brothers are concerned, one don't want to contest the elections, other is fighting for sustenance.
16:20So, therefore, let us understand that we are committed for a transparent electoral process, including SIR.
16:28Be rest assured, what is right will be done.
16:31Every Indian will have a right to vote.
16:34Okay, that's, I guess, is the most important line that you have said.
16:39Every Indian has the right to vote, and we ensure that in no way that is taken away from him
16:44or her.
16:45Thank you very much, all of you, for joining in this conversation.