- 8 minutes ago
A fiery televised debate unfolded over Rahul Gandhi's Special Intensive Revision (SIR) agitation and allegations of voter deletions. National spokesperson for the Bharatiya Janata Party Pradeep Bhandari defended the election revision exercise, maintaining that democratic dissent cannot become an excuse for street violence, stating, 'not a single eligible voter should be left out to vote. At the same time, not a single ineligible voter should also be allowed to vote.' Congress party spokesperson Gurmehar Kaur countered that deleting over 1,400 names across just four local polling booths highlights a systematic electoral malpractice requiring immediate accountability. Meanwhile, Cockroach Janta Party spokesperson Pranav Dhawan defended the right of political movements to organize and protest pending sub judice issues, questioning governmental restrictions on youth demonstrations. The participants locked horns over constitutional boundaries, ongoing Supreme Court proceedings, and political mobilization.
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NewsTranscript
00:00So let's raise the big question.
00:01Is Rahul Gandhi now going for broke with his SIR agitation?
00:05Is SIR bringing on vote chori, bringing all anti-BJP, anti-Modi forces together?
00:12Does the SIR vote chori issue really resonate with common citizens?
00:16Is the BJP's padhyatra plan to take on opposition working on the ground?
00:21Joining me now, Pradeep Bhandari, the BJP's national spokesperson.
00:25Advocate Pranav Dhawan is CJP's spokesperson.
00:28And Gurmayar Kaur of the Congress, its spokesperson, join me.
00:32Gurmayar, let me come to you first because Rahul Gandhi in the video today says,
00:37Sab loog jo Narendra Modi, Amit Shah, Gyanesh Kumar se tang hai,
00:42Savvidhan ki rakshha karna chaate hai, please come.
00:45Calling all those against Amit Shah, Narendra Modi, Gyanesh Kumar to come together.
00:49So is this now about constitutional questions and the election commission?
00:53Or is this now straight a political march that targets Amit Shah and Narendra Modi as well?
00:59Sir, thank you so much for having me on your show.
01:02I actually want to start with something very simple.
01:04The BJP today has a very, very simple problem tonight.
01:07It is that it simply cannot answer the questions that are being asked by young people.
01:12So it is deciding to question patriotism instead.
01:16And what we are doing, it is, is it about the question that you're asking?
01:20Is it about the election commission or is it about Narendra Modi and Amit Shah?
01:25Well, it is obviously about the election commission.
01:27And of course, it's linked to Modi and Shah because, because, because there are these two people
01:34because of whom there are these SIR regulations that are happening.
01:39So when, you know, Rahul Gandhi says, don't worry about police or Lattis, come and save the democracy.
01:45See, we must go and work and save the democracy, as he says.
01:51No, no.
01:52So is it about saving democracy or is it about ousting Modi Shah?
01:56Let's be clear.
01:56Has this now become less about Gyanesh Kumar and more about Modi Shah?
02:03So I think it's that same question about regime change.
02:06When there are electoral discrepancies, when there are questions about the electoral process,
02:10when there are questions that the current government is involved in malpractice of the electoral process,
02:18then, of course, when there are very serious allegations that are being put on the government,
02:22then in a situation like that, the question of whether that government should stay or not stay is 100 percent
02:29on the line.
02:29And it starts with the impeachment of Gyanesh Kumar, which is going to happen on the 1st of November,
02:34at least a public impeachment.
02:36You know, I want to bring in, therefore, Pradeep Bhandari.
02:39Pradeep Bhandari, the Congress is saying you cannot separate the two issues anymore.
02:44There is Gyanesh Kumar as chief election commissioner and the opposition is linking that to Narendra Modi and Amit Shah.
02:50They are one, according to the opposition, that the that the CEC is batting for Modi Shah.
02:55So when they call for Gyanesh Kumar to go, naturally, they will also attack Mr. Modi and Amit Shah.
03:01That's the that's the opposition stand.
03:03Your response.
03:08Well, first of all, at the outset, Rajdeep, I just want to show you and tell your viewers
03:12that Karnataka Congress has increased the price of milk by eight rupees, eight rupees specifically.
03:19That's the biggest hit on the common man, which the Karnataka government of the Congress party has done.
03:24And this tells you how hypocritical Rahul Gandhi is.
03:26But let me come to the issue.
03:28Rajdeep B, you've been doing journalism for more than three decades, if I'm not wrong.
03:32And you are a very well read man of the Indian constitution.
03:34And I want to ask you, and this is through you, I want your viewers to also be educated
03:39that any decision on the election commissioner who is of the same parameter, particularly
03:44the CEC of the Supreme Court judge, can only be done by the Indian parliament by two thirds
03:49of members present and voting.
03:50That is how it has to happen by both the houses of the parliament.
03:54So if the Congress party is so confident about it, the Congress party should ask for a special
03:59session, get the numbers and do it.
04:01No, just a minute, just a minute, Mr. Bhandari, they had the 50, no, no, just a minute, sir.
04:0650 MPs did sign, which was the requisite number in March this year.
04:10And yet the chairman of the house didn't allow the impeachment to go through.
04:14If the speaker and the chairman will not allow the impeachment of the speaker inside parliament,
04:19they want to now do it outside.
04:21What's wrong with that?
04:22They want to make a statement.
04:23It's a way of making a political statement.
04:29Let them make, so you also admitted that it's a political statement.
04:32The issue does not have substance because the issue is subjudice.
04:35The Supreme Court is hearing the matter and the Supreme Court has given 10 days of notice
04:39to different parties.
04:40So on your show in the opening, it has been admitted that they are trying to make a political
04:43statement.
04:43It is nothing to do with democracy.
04:45Now let's answer the political question.
04:47Leave the democracy part aside.
04:49Politically, the people of the country, Rajdeep Ji, are voting more than 90 percentage in various
04:53elections, which means that they have the faith in the electoral process.
04:56The constitutional morality will be decided by the Supreme Court, not by the BJP or the
05:00Congress.
05:01And as of right now, the Supreme Court has not given a negative statement on the constitutional
05:04morality, either of the SIR or any of the allegations which Rahul Gandhi is raising.
05:08So what is this exactly?
05:10This is nothing but Rahul Gandhi attempting to show himself as the leader of the opposition,
05:14getting everybody along.
05:15So last time you did not have the Aam Adli Party.
05:16You did not have the DMK backing.
05:18And if Rahul Gandhi is saying that this is a march which should rally everybody who's against
05:22Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
05:23So let's say hypothetically he gets 20 to 25,000 people at Ramlila hypothetically.
05:27Does it mean according to his logic, then the entire country apart from 20 to 25,000 people
05:32are backing Prime Minister Narendra Modi?
05:33So my argument here is that nobody is buying what Rahul is saying.
05:37This is why the Rahul Gandhi is getting frustrated and time again, time after time, he's shifting
05:42goalposts.
05:43For instance, if he has problem with SIR, Karnataka SIR got completed.
05:4799 lakh deletions have happened, which is the highest in the country, one of the highest
05:50in the country and their own minister Satish Jharki Goli is backing it.
05:53So he should first sack Satish Jharki Goli if this entire process is for SIR and is a
05:57political statement that he's trying to make.
05:59So I believe that people are very wise.
06:01You are also wise.
06:02And this is why there are no takers of Rahul Gandhi except his anarchic lot, which are
06:05few thousands in nature.
06:07Okay.
06:07Guru Mayor, you want a quick response and then I'll go to Pranav of the Kokruj Janta
06:11Party.
06:11You see, according to the BJP, 25,000 people, 50,000, 1 lakh gathering at Ramlila
06:16Maidan is not India.
06:18They're saying you will have to, is this an issue that is going to resonate with India?
06:2325,000 Congress loyalists or India block loyalists is not India.
06:27I think, I think it's a, I think in a democratic country, the entire opposition does represent
06:33India.
06:33All the MPs, they carry certain amount of votes.
06:38People have, citizens have put their faith and their vote for the, for these MPs.
06:44And of course they do represent India.
06:45I think to me, what, to me, this question of whether to politicize SIR, whether to politicize
06:51this demand for the Ganesh Kumar's resignation.
06:54See, so when the electoral process, and I will say this again and again, when the electoral
06:59process is compromised, it is the duty of the opposition to bring forth, bring forth all
07:05the evidence, to bring forth all the allegations, to bring all the opposition MPs and civil society
07:11members together and demand of, and demand the resignation of the person responsible for
07:17it.
07:18No, but your own ministers in Karnataka and Kerala, some of them have no problems with
07:22that same SIR exercise.
07:23I mean, Rahul Gandhi is saying one thing in Delhi, Satish Jarkhioli or in Karnataka says
07:28that, you know, the SIR has been a valuable exercise in removing voters.
07:33Sir, but there's a, there's a, there's this question of which voters and how many voters
07:38and we will keep going back to those numbers.
07:40For example, even if we, there is this constant conversation that the BJP keeps saying that
07:45we are going to detect, delete and then deport voters, right?
07:50However, they have only been able to find, let's say, around 700, around 700 foreign
07:56infiltrators, many of them from Nepal, but around 13 crore voters have been removed.
08:01So what I'm focusing on and what we're focusing on is what is happening on the larger scale,
08:07that there are 13 crore voters that have been, that have been deleted.
08:10Yeah, but 13 crore voters include admittedly also several who are dead, several who moved
08:16residents, but yes, there are question marks over the number of voters.
08:19I mean, sir, look at Triloghpuri.
08:21I mean, for example, look at four booths in Triloghpuri.
08:23I want to go back.
08:24Yesterday, there was an exercise that happened where voter rolls were put out and people were
08:28asked to come and check.
08:29There are 400, actually around more than 400 people in simply four booths whose names were,
08:36whose names were illegally cut.
08:37They're standing there saying, look, here we are.
08:39And yet their names do not make it to the voter roll.
08:41What does the BJP have to say about miscalculations like that?
08:47Madam, I take your point.
08:48But, you know, Pradeep Bhandari, you see, the BJP seems to paint anyone who protests against
08:53you as anarchic, anyone who protests against you as anti-national.
08:57Gurmeyer Kaur says, you know, where are the foreign infiltrators?
09:00The BJP kept saying or your leaders kept saying, ghuspetya, ghuspetya, foreigners are being
09:05weeded out.
09:05The numbers actually are showing very few hundred so-called ghuspetyas are weeded out.
09:10So, the BJP also needs to recognize that people have the right to dissent.
09:14Even if one eligible voter, one Indian citizen who's eligible is left out, that's a problem.
09:20So, the BJP, why not, why not recognize the problem?
09:23The election commission is making changes after, if the SIR, sub changasi in the SIR, why
09:28are you making, why is the same election commission making those changes?
09:35Rajdeep Ji, let us read that completely.
09:38Not a single eligible voter should be allowed to vote.
09:41At the same time, not a single ineligible voter should be allowed to vote.
09:45So, my argument and submission is, hey, why should 2.8 crore dead voters be allowed to
09:50vote and who are those individuals who are voting on the name of 2.8 crore dead voters?
09:53Rajdeep Ji, you are living in Delhi.
09:55Let's say you are from Mumbai, hypothetically.
09:57You cannot have vote in two places.
09:59So, why are 1 crore people who are duplicate and having two ID cards allowed to vote?
10:03Why should 6.3 crore permanently shifted be allowed to vote?
10:06Why should 3 crore absentee be allowed to vote?
10:08The Indian constitution only gives right to Indian citizen above the age of 18 years to
10:13vote.
10:14So, at the same time, not a single eligible should be left out to vote.
10:16At the same time, not a single ineligible should also be allowed to vote.
10:19But let me come on this.
10:20Let's not go with hearsay.
10:22Are they not having faith in Abhishek Manu Singh who is representing them in the Supreme
10:25Court?
10:25They can submit all these evidences in the affidavit in front of the Supreme Court of
10:28India.
10:29What are they trying to achieve from the street except anarchy and Rahul Gandhi's political
10:33statement?
10:33I have no problem with dissent, Rajdeep Ji.
10:35Rahul Gandhi could even protest, take a march till the Supreme Court of India.
10:39Our issue is with statements like Neha Bora who spoke and get inspiration from Neha Bangladesh.
10:44Our issue is with statements like Rashaan Bhushan who said that revolution streets se ho ga
10:47koon ho ga.
10:48There is no problem with dissent.
10:50In fact, the cockroaches also were allowed to protest on the first hand.
10:53But what was the outcome of it?
10:55When the state trusted them, the outcome was Patharbadi, the outcome was more than 700
10:59criminals infiltrating in it.
11:01And this is why they had to sign a peace bond which they were reluctant to sign.
11:04So we have no problem with dissent but we have problem with anarchy, we have problem with
11:07violence and the state has legitimate right to check that.
11:14Pranav, you are hearing those statements being made by the BJP.
11:18First of all, I want to ask you, are you all going to join this Ram Leela Maidan rally?
11:22Rahul Gandhi is saying he wants everyone who believes that the constitution is under threat
11:26to join.
11:27Will the Cockroach Janata party, the likes of Abhijit, Dipke, Sauravdas, Ashutosh Ranka also
11:31be part of this rally?
11:34We strongly support the demand of the rally and the spirit of the rally.
11:37But let me just…
11:38No, no, will you join?
11:39You support the spirit of the rally?
11:41Will you join the rally?
11:42We have already given a comprehensive statement on that, Rajdeep.
11:45Nothing beyond that needs to be said by a spokesperson.
11:48No, so why aren't you joining it?
11:49No, I must ask you, why aren't you joining the rally?
11:51If you believe that this is all about…
11:53Rahul Gandhi is saying today in his statement he wants everyone who believes that the constitution
11:57is under threat to join.
11:59We are an independent political pressure group.
12:01We decide our strategies according to various decisions and we are also a group which is
12:06spread out all over India.
12:07We are not just a Delhi-based outfit.
12:09We will take our decisions as they go along.
12:11You have seen a statement from the founder, president of the party and further steps will
12:15be taken.
12:16But let me point out two very core hypocrisies of the BJP on this point.
12:20BJP today disturbed the traders and businessmen of Chandni Chong.
12:25They did a rally.
12:26I want to know whether they took a 10-day permission for it, whether there was an economic
12:30impact assessment done, whether there was a notice given to the court about how much
12:34impact there is a padhyatra.
12:36Secondly, and this is the BJP which has come to power after movements like Ramjan Bhumi movement
12:43and it is now criminalizing the very act of making issues politically in the republic.
12:48We all have a right to political justice.
12:49How can we not have politics about issues with the subjudice?
12:52There is no rule of law known to law or to jurisprudence which says that if something
12:56is a matter pending in court, you cannot have politics about it.
12:59In a republic, you are supposed to have politics.
13:01Finally, the BJP's problem is that it wants to have a dadagiri over what is Indian and what
13:07is not Indian.
13:08If people are going to India party rally, they are not Indian.
13:11If people are eating meat during Nagratri, they are not Indian.
13:14If people are participating in CJP rallies and want to have jobs in UP, they are not Indian.
13:19BJP needs to know that it has only gotten the license to govern India.
13:22under the system of political legitimacy run by legitimate elections.
13:26And if it continues to run roughshod over our elections and compromise them and manipulate
13:30them, the youth of India and the people of India will not tolerate it.
13:34The courts of India will also come down heavily on it.
13:36So, please don't try to hide behind the courts and the judicial process.
13:39We have whole faith in the lawyers who represent us in courts, but that does not mean that we
13:42have mortgaged our political rights to advocate for justice.
13:46I have heard you and you have spoken very strongly, but Pradeep Bhandari, you see, it is interesting.
13:50You are coming on the show and saying you have no problem with the right to dissent, no problem
13:53with the right to protest.
13:54You have a problem with those who call for violence and anarchy.
13:57But you have got in Uttar Pradesh, your chief minister, Yogi Adityanath, his government saying
14:00we won't give government jobs to those who protest.
14:03Are you essentially saying that the right to protest is unconstitutional?
14:08You are going to delegitimize anyone who goes to protest.
14:11So, you have got Rahul Gandhi inviting people to come and protest.
14:15He is not saying that this is not supposedly a violent protest.
14:18But the BJP is immediately in Uttar Pradesh saying anyone who goes to these protests will
14:22not be given a government job.
14:24How can you link the right to protest to a government job?
14:28Rajdeep ji.
14:32Rajdeep ji, first of all, Constitution Article 19.1a has to be read with Constitutional Article 19.1b.
14:40So, let's not read Article 19 in isolation or selectively.
14:45Point number two, service rules of anybody who applies for a government job, please, he
14:49or she, there is no political protest, quote unquote.
14:54Mr. Cockroach, I was not interrupting you.
14:57Relax.
14:57You can speak in your time.
14:58Number two, it is nothing to do with protest.
15:00It is to do with political protest, which are anarchic in nature.
15:03And any individual who wants to be a government servant, please read the civil services rule.
15:07He or she need not be engaged in any political activity.
15:10They need not have a political bias.
15:12Now, point number two.
15:13And if you have a problem with it, the government order can be challenged in the court.
15:17Now, a very specific point.
15:19Please, Rajdeep ji, you tell me.
15:20Anything which is to do with the constitutionality of a matter, which is illegal, legal, constitution,
15:25not, it will not be decided through streets.
15:27Can you tell me that tomorrow, let's say, hypothetically, they have 2 lakh people on the
15:32outside Ramlila or 200 people outside Ramlila?
15:35How will it affect in terms of the arguments which are made in front of the court of law?
15:39Because the matter which is decided in the court of law, in this case, which Rahul Gandhi
15:42says that the entire SIR exercise, according to Rahul, was illegal.
15:45So, this will be decided on the basis of the merit of the case.
15:48It does not matter how much Bharatiya Janta party mobilized or how much Congress mobilized.
15:51That's politics.
15:52So, let us admit on your show that what cockroach and Congress is doing is not constitutional,
15:56not democratic.
15:57It's politics.
15:57So, no, so was, so was, so was the Ramjanma Bhoomi.
16:01No, no, no, you know, Pradeep Bhandari, good argument, Pradeep Bhandari, good argument,
16:05but the same thing was said about the Ramjanma Bhoomi movement.
16:07That also was outside.
16:09No, no, you see, once you allow street protest, when you are in the opposition, you have to
16:13be protested on the street.
16:14I'll answer.
16:14Now, when they protest, you have a problem with it.
16:17Quick answer and then I'll go to my other guest.
16:18Quick answer.
16:20No, no, Rajdeep ji, Rajdeep ji, I have no problem with protest in the time they do not back likes
16:26of
16:26Sharjee Limam who wants chicken neck to be out of the country.
16:29I have no problem with the protest till the time Mr. Prashant Bhushan does not give clarion
16:32calls of streets and arki ho gi or stadak pe khun bhae ga.
16:35I have no problem with the protest till the time they do not take inspiration from Bangladesh.
16:39I have no problem with the protest till the time they do not say ki sansa dukhaad faked
16:42denge.
16:43If we had, if we had problem with the protest, people would not be sitting in Jantar Mantar
16:48for more than 25 to 30 days, Rajdeep ji.
16:50So, please, you have to respect that the government has given the right to protest.
16:53We are not Indira Gandhi who would impose emergency.
16:55We give people right to opinion, but it cannot be at the cost of anarchy.
16:58Okay.
16:59Let me ask Gurmayar Kaur and Pranav to intervene.
17:01Gurmayar, to you, is there an end game?
17:04You know, Rahul Gandhi, it seems, is going for broke.
17:07Day after day, he wants the eyeballs, the narrative.
17:10But what is the end game?
17:11There is a matter, as Pradeep points out, is being heard in the court.
17:15Why not wait till the Supreme Court decides on it?
17:17Sir, I am actually going to start with the comments that have been made about anarchy.
17:21I feel like Pradeep Bhandari here very skillfully, and I must congratulate him on his skill,
17:26skillfully building a picture where there is actual anarchy that is happening out on the streets,
17:31whereas it is not.
17:32It is factually incorrect.
17:33What is happening on the streets, the young people are coming out, speaking up,
17:36and what the BJP has done, it has turned, it had turned Delhi into a garrison where the
17:42state police and the state resources were used to detain, to hurt protesting students
17:48and put them brutally into buses.
17:50The entire country has seen what has happened and who the anarchic forces were.
17:55What is happening on November 1?
17:56November 1, there is the Vote Pachao-Deshpatao rally that has gotten the police permissions.
18:00This NOC was granted on October 17th, and yet, you know, sir, we are again and again,
18:05so hearing things about anarchy, foreign toolkit, regime change, sir, this is the language that
18:12the British used to use against Mahatma Gandhi.
18:14You know, your Edwin Mongau called Gandhi's non-cooperation movement an anarchical movement
18:20in 1922.
18:22So almost, you know, a hundred years later, what is happening is that you've got a government
18:26in place, that is consistently using the language of the colonial masters.
18:31Okay, I've heard you.
18:32I've heard you.
18:33I've heard you.
18:34And the language has really not changed at all.
18:37And my question is exactly that, you know, and the question that people on 1st of November
18:41will be asking is this, you know, there are 1400 deletions in four votes, I will keep coming
18:48back to that number because it's just four votes, 1416 votes have been deleted, those people
18:53are standing right there saying we exist.
18:54We are raising very serious questions about the election commission and about its own
18:59affidavits.
19:00You know, these questions, they, sir, they deserve answers.
19:03They do not deserve some stories about anarchy.
19:06I take your point.
19:07I will give Pranav a final word.
19:08Pranav, as a lawyer turned CJP spokesperson, a final word.
19:13According to Paradeep Pranav, let the Supreme Court decide.
19:17Allow me 10 seconds in 20, please.
19:18I want to remind the BDP of article 19 sub clause 2, which says there can only be reasonable
19:22restriction on eight enumerated grounds.
19:25None of these grounds relate to the political proclivities of a potential employee.
19:29My idea is that yesterday you had beaten up a policeman and even attempted to release that.
19:33No, no, no, Pradeep, you're being unfair.
19:36How is this interference permitted?
19:37No, no.
19:38You tell me, will the RSS participation and listening and mandatory listening of Man Ki Baath also
19:43be forbidden under the UP civil services rule and I will rest my place.
19:47Let that be made very clear that anyone who is participating in a mandatory Man Ki Baath listening
19:52and RSS SAGAS will not be eligible for government jobs in UP.
19:56Let us end it there.
19:57Secondly, we will have to ultimately run this government, this country by the addicts of
20:03the court and we have to justify.
20:05Why has Jantar Mantar been denotified?
20:07Why has Jantar Mantar been denotified?
20:09No, no, no, Pradeep, no.
20:10Let him finish.
20:11You know, we must show courtesy.
20:14We must show courtesy to each other.
20:15You all are younger people, Pradeep Bhandari, final word therefore to you.
20:19Has Rahul Gandhi in the end again got under your skin?
20:22Are you all rattled with Rahul Gandhi trying to make these speeches or do you believe that
20:28you can handle Rahul Gandhi?
20:29Your problem is more with these student protesters who don't affiliate themselves to any party.
20:39Rajdeepji, the students of the country voted in Delhi University Student Union elections
20:42in the Congress, 13 percent, 13 percent.
20:45No, no, no, no, man.
20:47No, no, no, you cannot intervene.
20:48Sorry.
20:49No, no, you cannot intervene.
20:50Let's not link it to that.
20:51Let's not link it to that.
20:53We have, we are very, very happy with Rahul Gandhi protesting because the more Rahul Gandhi
20:58protests, the more votes of the BJP increase.
21:00We have only problem with Rahul Gandhi's enarchy because last time when he protested, he was
21:03unpredicted.
21:04We attempted to push some female policemen.
21:06And we never, he did not follow the lines in front.
21:09And my dear cockroaches, last time when you protested, there was attempt to lynch a policeman.
21:14So, please, do not, no, no, no, you see, Pradeep Bhandari, there are examples of Hindu Raksha Dal, members attacking
21:25protesters, peaceful protesters.
21:27So, let's not go, you know, let's not be selective.
21:29These are serious issues.
21:31We can all use all kinds of videos.
21:33Two wrongs don't make a right.
21:34Two wrongs don't make a right.
21:36The fact is, it's a matter of investigation.
21:39Okay, I'm going to leave it there.
21:41I've heard all three of you.
21:43I wonder though, what the end game is.
21:44So, now you are saying the matter is of investigation.
21:46I still wonder.
21:47No, so, when it is a matter of investigation, how can you have selective videos?
21:50Okay.
21:50When it is a matter of investigation, how can you have selective videos?
21:53Okay, we've heard all three.
21:53Put the faders down, producer.
21:55It's supposed to be news without the noise.
21:57These are all young faces.
21:58And you can see them all holding very strongly to their positions.
22:02Hopefully, one day we can get them to dialogue with each other rather than talk at each other.
22:07Maybe that's what we need to ensure that protests are allowed space and dialogue is also allowed space.
22:15That's the way perhaps you might find an end game to what's been happening on the street.