- 13 minutes ago
On India Today's 'India First', Gaurav Sawant reports on the internal contradictions within the Congress party regarding the Election Commission of India's Special Intensive Revision of electoral rolls.
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00:00Hello and welcome, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savan.
00:04Senior Congress Leader and Karnataka Minister Satish Jarkiyoli has taken the wind out of the Congress Party's sails on attacking
00:11the special intensive revision of the electoral rolls.
00:14The Congress calls it vote chauri. Satish Jarkiyoli says we don't protest about the SIR in Karnataka.
00:21SIR has been done properly in Karnataka on his own party colleagues attacking the Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar
00:27and the Election Commission over deletion of close to one crore names.
00:31Satish Jarkiyoli says people have died, people have shifted or there were duplications.
00:38This is exactly what the EC has been saying all along on deletion of voter list and its purification.
00:45Now, the statement perhaps couldn't have come at a worse time for the Congress Party that's planning a mock parliament
00:52and a mock impeachment of the CEC Gyanesh Kumar at the residence of Congress Party President Malikarjun Kharge who incidentally
01:00comes from Karnataka.
01:01So, Kharge's own party leader and minister from his state Karnataka has emphatically defended the special intensive revision or SIR
01:10in the state saying SIR was conducted properly.
01:13He in fact wants other states to follow the same process.
01:18Yes, Rahul Gandhi's entire vote-chory narrative incidentally had started from Karnataka.
01:24But has Jarkiyoli punctured his balloon?
01:28On the electoral exercise, two very different narratives from the same political party and the same state.
01:35Jarkiyoli is not only Congress leader in Karnataka from Karnataka, he's also a minister.
01:42And Karnataka is not the only state.
01:44Even in Kerala, the Congress has said the special intensive revision of the electoral rolls benefited the Congress Party, helping
01:51them win elections.
01:53But let's for a moment talk about what's been said about Karnataka.
01:57The Karnataka numbers are significant.
02:00Nearly 1.08 crore voters were not enumerated in Karnataka's draft electoral rolls.
02:08Of these, 65.45 lakh were marked permanently shifted, 19 lakh absent, 16.39 lakh deceased and about 7.09
02:22lakh either duplicate or enrolled elsewhere.
02:27Following notices and hearings, 61,867 electors were declared ineligible for inclusion in the final roll.
02:37A separate category from those not enumerated in the draft.
02:44Let's now talk about Kerala, where the Congress not only won elections, it formed the government.
02:49And Ramesh Chanitala said SIR helped the Congress Party in Kerala by removing alleged bogus votes linked, he said, to
02:59the CPIM.
03:00Senior Congress leader and former minister Shashi Tharoor acknowledged the need to address, duplicate, deceased and unregistered voters.
03:11And that's not all.
03:12So, you had other leaders who said, SIR removed fake voters and helped Congress in several constituencies.
03:20And yet, Rahul Gandhi alleges vote-chori and is demanding action against the Chief Election Commissioner, Gyanesh Kumar.
03:27Rahul Gandhi, in fact, in a video, urged people across the country to join the Chalo Dilli protest march,
03:33telling them not to fear police or lathees and calling for a march to defend the Constitution and the soul
03:41of the government.
03:43Oh, words to that effect.
03:44The India Bloc leaders will now meet at Congress Party President Malikarjun Kharge's residence for a symbolic public impeachment of
03:52the CEC.
03:53A mock parliament and a mock impeachment.
03:56India Bloc is preparing to present its allegations and complaints in this mock parliament session.
04:02But the BJP has hit back.
04:04They've questioned the opposition's credibility and they've defended the election commission.
04:09In fact, BJP President Nithin Nabeen, he said democracy is in safe hands under Prime Minister Narendra Modi
04:14and insists that the BJP will continue to work in national interest.
04:18Union Health Minister JP Nadda, he's accused the opposition of trying to spread anarchy,
04:23calling for what he describes is an end to this anarchist mindset.
04:30JP Nadda also questioned the vote-chori charge itself,
04:33asking how can the opposition allege vote-chori when it wins elections in several states?
04:40So as the Congress escalates its battle against the election commission and the chief election commissioner,
04:46questions over its own contrasting positions and SIR are now growing louder.
04:51If the electoral roll clean-up is welcome in Karnataka and has been beneficial in Kerala,
04:58what explains the fierce opposition only when the Congress party loses elections?
05:03We will debate that.
05:05But first, let's listen in to different voices on this very complex issue.
05:40The Prime Minister is in Karnataka and has been able to do it.
05:42They know the truth and the SIR has helped. Even in Kerala, Chenitaal was Congress leader, state leader, he was
05:51a president once. He was a senior leader of the Congress. He also expressed, because of the SIR, we came
05:59to power in the Kerala.
06:00Congress party leader has told, in so many, even Jammu Kashmir CM, Omar Abdullah, he is also telling, because of
06:08SIR, I came into power in the Jammu and Kashmir. So, internally, all the people, Congress people, they like SIR,
06:17here in Karnataka.
06:18That's a very clear indication that this is a conspiracy theory that has its roots all over the place. And
06:27it's centralized. And we will get to the bottom of it.
06:30So, I have information on what has happened. In Vijaypur, more than 40, 50 people who have been declared dead
06:39and Form 7 were submitted. They have gone and complained to the DC over there, saying that we are not
06:45dead, we are alive. So, all these things have happened. So, I'm not sure what information Mr. Zarkioli has, but
06:52I'm basing my statements on things that have happened in Kalburgi and elsewhere.
06:59There is one protest. It is the country's protest. Don't worry about the police. Don't worry about lathees. The BJP
07:09will not have the guts to try any of their antics. Come march with us. We will walk together to
07:16protect the constitution, to protect the Indian nation.
07:29I urge all student groups, regardless of your political affiliation. If you feel that India is under attack. If you
07:39feel you're under attack. Your expression, your ideas, your way of thinking is under attack.
07:44Come and join us. It will be a fantastic march. And it's a march for the soul of this country.
07:52Looking forward to seeing all of you there.
07:54How do you see this public impeachment that's going to happen? What is the schedule? What have you all discussed?
08:00And is there going to be a skit or a mock parliament? Or is it going to be a more
08:05somber atmosphere there?
08:07It won't be a mock parliament. We are not going to replicate parliament message. Nevertheless, there will be certain elements
08:14or verticals of a parliamentary proceedings.
08:17We would have a presiding officer of imbuckal integrity and the students. We would have the leader of the opposition,
08:24Rajya Sabha, moving the notice of impeachment.
08:27And we will have party representatives speaking there also. At the end of the discourse, we will have an voting
08:34also to ensure that the impeachment motion is passed.
08:37So, it's not a mock impeachment as such. It's a representative impeachment. Since Rajya Sabha chairman and Rajya Sabha speaker
08:45did entertain our notice which was proper,
08:47signed by the stipulated numbers which have been there in the constitution, we have no other way but to hold
08:55this representative impeachment.
08:58And we also thought that to give slot or windows to civil society and the victims of the SIR, they
09:05also will present the case.
09:06So, will they also, they will also present the case. And will there be some former judges or legal luminaries,
09:12we are told, who would also be present?
09:14No, civil society, we have not decided as such, I mean, who would come. If at all, people with legal
09:20blend or legal background, they can also be part of it.
09:24We are finalising it. But these are the corners of the programme that has been chartered out.
09:29Thank you very much, Mr. Britaas.
09:30And Karnataka's Chief Electoral Officer, V. Anbu Kumar says, no voter has been deleted from the draft rolls merely because
09:39Form 7 applications were filed in bulk.
09:41He insists every deletion follows due process and due verification.
09:47Listen in.
09:48We are able to serve the voters of Karnataka and I feel very comfortable. I am grateful to all the
09:55political parties and the representatives and the Bootswold agent for such a great support.
09:59And I am grateful to all my officers, especially the BLOs, who took the greater burden on their shoulders and
10:04completed the job without any greater controversy.
10:06No, the issue was only on Form 7. And I could assure you once again, not even a single voter
10:12name has been deleted from the draft roll just because of submission of Form 7 in bulk.
10:18Every deletion would definitely happen, have definitely happened from the roll after due verification and after passing speaking order.
10:28So, has Satish Jarkiyoli punctured the Congress Party narrative on vote chori?
10:33And had the Congress Party leadership in Kerala already taken the wind out of the party's sails on alleged vote
10:41chori?
10:41And what should one make of the BJP saying the fault actually lies with the leadership within the Congress and
10:47not the Election Commission?
10:48Let's just throw this open for wider discussion.
10:50Joining me on India first is Charu Pragya, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
10:54Sanjay Jha, author and political analyst, formerly with the Congress.
10:57Mohamed Ameen is former Joint Director at the Election Commission.
11:00And Aarti Jairath is a very seasoned senior journalist. Welcome.
11:04Sanjay Jha, the entire Congress vote chori narrative that started from Karnataka in 2025.
11:11And in October 2026, we have Satish Jarkiyoli, Karnataka minister no less, saying,
11:17we don't protest about SIR in Karnataka, it's been done properly.
11:21And he explains the nearly one crore deletions.
11:25Sir, has the Congress Party narrative on vote chori fallen flat?
11:32Gaurav, good evening to you and to my fellow panelists on the program.
11:36First and foremost, the issue of vote chori or the SIR being an autocratic unilateral implementation being done by the
11:46Chief Election Commissioner
11:47is actually now reaching a stratospheric level.
11:50It, in fact, I believe, has escalated to a point where practically every citizen of this country is aware
11:57that there are serious fault lines in India's electoral democracy.
12:02Now, you know, Jhaar Kholi's comment, with due respect, is his personal observation.
12:06Right now, we are talking about the structural systemic challenge on the SIR, which is up before the Supreme Court
12:13of India.
12:14And Gaurav, let me point out to you what the Supreme Court has said over the last couple of days.
12:19One, they are talking about the constitutionality or the legal, shall we say, status of the logical discrepancy,
12:29the instrument which has been used by the Election Commission to disenfranchise millions of voters.
12:35Point number two, look at what they said about the Election Commission actually making a terrible error
12:42in making all those voters who were earlier barred from voting now fill up Form 6 to be eligible for
12:50voting again.
12:51These are very, very serious issues.
12:53And don't forget the fundamental point.
12:56This is not about one state.
12:58I mean, maybe Mr. Jhaar Kholi believes that Karnataka has gone well.
13:01Fair enough, maybe.
13:02But DK Shiv Kabar has publicly pointed out that there were so many Muslim voters on whom there were BGP
13:10leaders
13:10who were using Form 7 to get them isolated from the voting process.
13:14Fair enough.
13:15But you had the electoral officer who said that just on the basis of Form 7, they are not removing
13:21anybody.
13:21They are saying due process is being followed, is being said in Karnataka, which is a Congress-ruled state.
13:26But let me bring in Charu Pragya.
13:28Satish Jhar Kholi says it's all perfect in Karnataka.
13:31But they are protesting because of states like West Bengal, where voters, genuine voters were deleted.
13:38And you heard Sanjay Jha, he says millions, especially Muslims according to the Congress party, are being disenfranchised.
13:47Including Delhi, you know, there are so many states, Bihar, West Bengal is a classic example.
13:53Fair enough.
13:54Charu Pragya.
13:56Karam, good evening to you.
13:58You know, the issue is that time and time again, Congress is trying to pretend SIR is something that it
14:04is actually not.
14:05The number of 13 crore, for example, that is being flashed around repeatedly is a number which is also a
14:12false one
14:13because that is trying to mislead the people of this country.
14:16Out of these 13 crore people, Congress never gets into the details of who is who.
14:21And that is very important and pertinent to note.
14:25So, out of these 13 crore, if more than 6 crore people are those who have shifted base,
14:31if around 3 crore people are those who have lost their lives already, they are deceased,
14:36if more than a crore and a half people are those who had duplicate entries,
14:41all of this needs to be taken into account and paid attention to.
14:45And I'll tell you something, this is not the first time Congress is lying on narrative.
14:49Today, one of their own ministers is saying that 1 crore, nearly 1 crore voters,
14:55removed from the state of Karnataka was actually done correctly because these are the people who are either deceased
15:01or they have relocated elsewhere and he's quite happy with the SIR process.
15:05And I think, you know, at a time like this, it's important to have some honesty floating around.
15:11Sanjay Ji was quoting the Supreme Court.
15:13But, you know, again, from the Supreme Court, whatever information comes out or even if you're looking at the...
15:20I'm so sorry, Gaurav, there's something very wrong with my sound.
15:23Can you help me with fixing this echo?
15:25No, your sound is absolutely fine. Just complete your point, Chauru Pragya.
15:28Because I quickly want to bring in Aarti Jairat.
15:30But as we fix that sound, Aarti Jairat is Satish Jarkioli's statement.
15:35Virtually a hit wicket for the Congress ahead of a very important meeting in Delhi.
15:40But it may be the truth that is actually hurting the Congress.
15:44That Congress campaign that started from Karnataka on vote chauri.
15:47Now, a Congress minister says the process is well executed.
15:51First, you had Kerala leaders saying it of Congress.
15:54Now, Karnataka leaders.
15:55So, what soul of India is the Congress talking about?
16:01So, Gaurav, I think we're mixing up a lot of issues here.
16:04Firstly, just a quick correction.
16:07The vote chauri narrative started with Maharashtra.
16:10Karnataka came later.
16:12It actually began with that big article in the Indian Express that Rahul Gandhi printed
16:17or got printed in the Indian Express on Maharashtra.
16:22Secondly, it's possible that SIR...
16:23His big attack started from one constituency, Aarti Jairat.
16:26From one constituency, Mahadev Pura in Karnataka in 2025.
16:31That is where he led the campaign on vote chauri.
16:34But go ahead.
16:35No, no, no, no.
16:36You've forgotten the Maharashtra article.
16:38But anyway, that's a minor point.
16:41The point that what I'm saying is that it is possible that SIR was done properly in some places,
16:46not done properly in some states.
16:48I think the most glaring example of, you know, manipulation or mistakes or error,
16:58whatever you want to call them, is West Bengal.
17:00And, you know, and it's really amazing.
17:04This Charu Pragya says 13 crores is a false figure.
17:08It's a figure that has been released by the Election Commission.
17:11No, she didn't say it's a false figure.
17:13She gave a breakdown of that figure.
17:14She gave a breakdown of figure of how many are dead, how many have moved.
17:18I'm surprised that she has the breakup of how many of them are dead, how many of them have shifted,
17:23because the Election Commission has not yet released the public domain.
17:26You may like to cross-check your facts on that.
17:28What is the breakup of that?
17:28You may like to cross-check your facts on that.
17:31We will give you the breakup because it has been given out by the Election Commission.
17:34You may like to cross-check your facts.
17:36I have not seen it.
17:37I have not seen it.
17:38It has come from BJP's spokespersons.
17:41So, and the figure has come from the BJP itself, from the Election Commission itself.
17:46Okay.
17:47Now, I think it is important to juxtapose what we're talking about,
17:52what Jarkiyoli has said in Karnataka about Karnataka,
17:55with what the Supreme Court said yesterday.
17:58And they were hearing a petition on Delhi, you know, filed by Anjali Bhardwaj and Prashant Bhushan.
18:04And the Supreme Court passed, of course, these are only observations.
18:07It is not a judgment.
18:08Correct.
18:08And we've seen in the past that Supreme Court's observations do not necessarily translate into judgment.
18:14So I will put that caveat in.
18:16But the Supreme Court's observations were very stringent.
18:20Because, you know, the same bench that told the voters of West Bengal,
18:26if you can't vote in this election, you can vote in the next one,
18:29is now talking about the constitutional right to vote.
18:33Oh, absolutely.
18:34But like you rightly pointed out, those are observations.
18:37And my producers will just put out that those details,
18:40those details of the Election Commission giving the break-up, Aarti Jairat, of those 13 crore.
18:46Okay, I may be wrong.
18:47Okay, but Mohamed Ameen, Mohamed Ameen, okay, Charu Pragya, you wanted to complete your point.
18:52Go ahead.
18:53Yes, I did.
18:54And I think Aarti Jairat is a bit confused on the information,
18:57because all of the information that I'm quoting is out in the public domain, ma'am.
19:01If you want, we can go over it again.
19:03So the exact break-up of 13 crore deletions has been given.
19:07And moving on from there, we cannot be looking at the comments of the Supreme Court in isolation.
19:12We cannot be picking a comment of the Supreme Court or an observation that suits us and neglect the others.
19:17Because very recently, also, there has been an affidavit that has been filed,
19:21where it's also been said that all SIR decisions were taken unanimously.
19:26Moving on, and furthermore, the problem of the opposition is that whether an election is conducted using the EVM,
19:33or it is conducting using ballot papers,
19:35or it is conducted in a student union election in Delhi, the DUSU elections,
19:40the opposition is losing.
19:42Congress is still getting zero seats, whichever way you look at it.
19:45So at the end of the day, the mood of the nation is reflected not merely in electoral results in
19:51the state,
19:51it is also reflected in the MLC elections, and it is also reflected in DUSU elections.
19:56So, you know, for a moment, for a moment, no, Aarti Jairat, Aarti Jairat, on India today, we are on
20:04facts.
20:04Aarti Jairat, I want all our viewers, on India today, we are on facts.
20:09The 13 crore figure has to be explained.
20:139.5 crore absent shifted.
20:172.7 crore deleted due to death.
20:201.01 crore flagged for multiple entries.
20:25Source, Election Commission of India.
20:29Mohamed Ameen, is vote jory possible in India?
20:34I want to understand from you, because you worked in the Election Commission,
20:37will the BLAs of various political parties permit genuine voters to be cut off from that final list?
20:45Or is there merit in the Congress saying,
20:47Election Commission is selectively deleting names to help the BJP?
20:52The Congress Party indicates that Muslim names are being deleted.
20:58Gauru, the motto of the Election Commission is to every countryman has been given the franchise right,
21:06as per the Constitution says.
21:08You are listening about the 13 crore votes, and in that, they blame.
21:14The opposition party, they have deleted the Muslim voters.
21:17But this is not correct.
21:19I am telling you, they have given the already 13 crore breakup.
21:24The 280 is died, and 6 and 7 crore are shifted.
21:28And the rest of these, they have given already breakup to other fellows.
21:32So, in this connection, I can say, in case of the Karnataka, there is wrong blame to the Election Commission,
21:40as our CEO has already explained about that.
21:43If you can find it in the Kerala, there's Rami's Charnitala, you are mentioning that,
21:47that he has said that a lot of the bogus vote is done by the, at the time of the
21:51left parties.
21:52So, that's why they are in the power now.
21:54And same thing happened in the Telangana also.
21:57Telangana Chief Minister also said at that time.
22:00So, where they get, everything is okay, that is good for them.
22:03If we are doing it legally, so that is the wrong with them.
22:07Okay, Sanjay Jha wants to respond.
22:09Sanjay Jha wants to respond.
22:10But Sanjay Jha, while you respond to this…
22:12I can mention you, Usaman.
22:14Sure.
22:14I mentioned you the Goa.
22:15Sure.
22:16But Sanjay Jha, Sanjay Jha, the Congress Party is organizing a mock parliament
22:21at Congress President Malik Arjun Tharge's residence
22:24for a mock impeachment of Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar.
22:28Sir, who is making a mockery of the system?
22:31Your own ministers, your own leaders are giving a thumbs up to the SIR process.
22:36You know, Mohamed Ameen mentioned Ramesh Charnitala in Kerala.
22:40He said SIR was helpful because CPIM in Kerala used to provide bogus votes, sir.
22:46Gaurav, if you gave me uninterrupted time in bullet points without taking time,
22:50I will actually rebut all the gibberish I'm hearing from a couple of people on your panel.
22:55Go on, sir.
22:55Point number one, the one who's making a mockery of India's democracy,
22:59who's making a mockery of India's elections,
23:01is the Chief Election Commissioner and the Modi government.
23:05Why is the Modi government defending an independent constitutional body
23:09as if it is a legal counsel for the Election Commission?
23:11Why?
23:12What is this big…
23:13Is that your best charge, sir?
23:17I said, if you give me uninterrupted time, I'm giving you bullet points, yeah?
23:21If you look at the call, we were told by the Election Commission and by the Modi government
23:27about infiltrators is one of the big reasons behind SIR.
23:30Guess how many foreigners have been identified so far?
23:341,600.
23:35What a joke have they made of the SIR using infiltrators as a ruse?
23:41Point number three, until they were forced to declare by the Supreme Court,
23:45the Election Commission in Bihar refused to make the public declaration
23:49of the 65 black voters in Bihar who were put under the doubters list.
23:54Point number four, look at West Bengal.
23:56The people who were deleted when they filed their appeals,
24:0091% were deemed eligible to vote.
24:02So, you can imagine how many millions have been disenfranchised in West Bengal.
24:08As a journalist, I do not imagine.
24:11As a journalist, I go by facts on ground and I wait for the verdict of the Supreme Court, sir.
24:17But respond, Charu Pragya, on merits and on facts.
24:20Because the vote-chori narrative, the Congress is convinced it's gaining ground.
24:25And that is why even BJP Tobras had to come down on ground to do a padhyatra to counter the
24:30narrative.
24:30But respond to Sanjay Jha on facts.
24:34You know, Gaurav, since you've used the word narrative, I think that's the correct one.
24:37Because something similar was done for the CA as well.
24:40In the end, everybody has admitted that CA had nothing to do with Indian citizens, Muslims, Hindus or otherwise.
24:47The same thing in Bihar and West Bengal was attempted by the opposition.
24:51You know, Rahul Gandhi just holds on to a word and walks around with it
24:55till the country rejects him repeatedly multiple times.
24:58So, because Sanjay Jha used the example of Bihar, let me also go on to tell you that
25:04after the SIR process, there was a time given by the Election Commission to file objections.
25:09Every single political party had this space, this sufficient time of over a month nearly
25:14where they could have moved the court and done the needful.
25:18You know, Congress had close to 18,000 BLAs on the ground.
25:22RGD had 48,000 BLAs on the ground.
25:26But you know how many claims were filed by the Congress party in the state of Bihar today.
25:30It is all well and good to cry, vote chori.
25:33But when it came to taking action, zero claims were filed.
25:36Gaurav, a quick one.
25:36Gaurav, and facts speak louder than the kind of rhetoric Congress wants to spread around.
25:43So, before I bring in Aarti Jairat, Sanjay Jha wants to quickly revert you on facts.
25:47Response, sir.
25:48Yeah.
25:48For the viewers of India today, the job of the Election Commission is to make sure
25:52that people who are eligible to vote should be voting.
25:55Look at the example of West Bengal.
25:57The judicial officers said that X number of voters are eligible to vote.
26:02Guess who's protesting against it?
26:04The Election Commission.
26:05Election Commission is protesting against those electors who have been now reinstated
26:10by the judicial officers.
26:12The EC is complaining against it.
26:14This is a sham.
26:15Respond, Mr. Mohammed Amin, you must respond to this.
26:18Because if eligible voters are not being permitted to vote, then it defeats the entire purpose,
26:23sir.
26:23Why is the Election Commission complaining?
26:28Actually, they are having their own agenda to defame the Election Commission of India.
26:35Actually, the Election Commission of India is doing, as per the guidelines of the Constitution,
26:40Article 324, 526, confirmed by the President of the CGI.
26:48Sir, you're lying on Form 6 to the Supreme Court.
26:52Your affidavit is not a legitimate affidavit.
26:55It is a fake affidavit.
26:56Sir, I'm sorry.
26:58Sir, no kangaroo court will decide whether that affidavit is fake or real.
27:02Courts of law will decide whether it's a real or a fake one, sir.
27:06Let's be very clear.
27:07Sir, if there is a contradiction, courts of law in India will decide and that aspect has
27:12to be clear to all.
27:14You know, otherwise, if facts don't come out in public domain, it leads to a lot of confusion.
27:20If it is a fake affidavit, if the Election Commission has committed perjury, it is for
27:25the Supreme Court to go after the Chief Election Commissioner, you know, all guns blazing if
27:31there is perjury.
27:32But no street will decide through a protest that CEC will be removed, sir.
27:36That is not how India functions.
27:38That is not how a vibrant democracy functions, sir.
27:41It happens through elections or courts of law.
27:44Aarti Jairat, Rahul Gandhi started attacking the Chief Election Commissioner, Gyanesh Kumar.
27:49Is that now backfiring?
27:52Because Gyanesh Kumar entered the Election Commission only in 2024 as EC became CEC in
27:582025.
27:59SIR process started in 2025.
28:02The BJP points out Congress has been out of power in states like Gujarat and Uttar Pradesh
28:08for four decades, Tamil Nadu for six decades.
28:11Of course, not being part of the alliance with the TVK right now, but that's a separate story.
28:15But Tripura, no CM for over three decades, long before Gyanesh Kumar came anywhere close
28:21to the Election Commission, ma'am.
28:24Can I just also remind you that who raised the EVMs are tamperable and have been tampered
28:32with?
28:32Which party was it that raised it?
28:34Ma'am, that's a separate debate.
28:36Ma'am, I've asked you a very pointed question on Gyanesh Kumar and the attack on Gyanesh
28:40Kumar.
28:41I just want to point out to you that when a party is in the opposition, it says one thing.
28:47When the party is in government, it says the opposite.
28:50And that is where journalists like you and I sift fact from fiction.
28:54And this is true of the Congress as well.
28:57So both sides are guilty of the same crime.
29:00Now, the point is, you may think that Rahul Gandhi is conducting some kind of a kangaroo
29:06call.
29:06No, I don't think that.
29:07I'm asking a question.
29:08I don't think anything.
29:09This is democracy.
29:10This is democracy.
29:12Everybody is allowed to dissent.
29:14They may have their methods of dissent.
29:16They may, they, you know, you may think that impeachment, that mock trial is wrong, but
29:21the Congress has the right to do it.
29:23It is there.
29:24It is a democracy.
29:25But an impeachment has to happen in Parliament.
29:28If that man is wrong, impeach him in Parliament.
29:31As long as there is no violence, right, they are planning to introduce an impeachment motion
29:37in Parliament.
29:38That's different.
29:39This is different.
29:40This is politics.
29:41And I think that we have to understand that this is what happens in politics.
29:45The BJP did it when they were in opposition.
29:47The Congress is doing it now when it's in opposition.
29:50Charu Pradya, respond.
29:51BJP did it.
29:53BJP attacked the EVM.
29:54Because it is part of the democratic process, the right to dissent in whatever manner you
30:00do, as long as you're not burning buses, as long as you're not creating violence and
30:06killing people, you know, it's fine, right?
30:10Very good point.
30:11Peaceful process protests are out.
30:12As long as it's peaceful, as long as it's in a designated area, okay, Sanjay Jha wants
30:17to come in.
30:18Sanjay Jha wants to come in.
30:20Sanjay Jha, first Sanjay Jha and then Charu Pradya.
30:23First Sanjay Jha.
30:23Gaurav, Gaurav, Gaurav, I want to say this again and I'll repeat it again and again.
30:28The opposition, Rahul Gandhi, whether it's a CJP, whether it's Neha Boda's team, whether
30:33whoever it is, we are all protesting peacefully.
30:36Nobody's talking about violence.
30:38Nobody's talking about going out there and nudging in arson.
30:41In fact, if we saw any aggression, if we saw any aggression, it came from the police
30:45forces in Delhi.
30:46And we saw AK-47 in Bihar.
30:49We saw how pellets were used against students and very ordinary protesters.
30:53Even the Supreme Court had to tell the government, will you respect the fact that in a democracy,
30:59people have a right to protest.
31:01Come on.
31:02Can we challenge the Supreme Court?
31:04Okay.
31:04So, Sanjay Jha, you made your point.
31:06Now, Charu Pradya, respond, ma'am.
31:08Sure.
31:08See, in legal opinion, Gaurav, when somebody signs an undertaking and you go back on that,
31:14you break barricades, you enter denotified protest site, you obstruct police from carrying
31:19out their duty and then you turn around and pretend that action is taken against you or
31:24detention has happened only because you held the tiranga in your hand.
31:26I think it is misleading the people of this country.
31:29If Sanjay Jha wants to say today that everybody wanted a peaceful protest, let me also remind
31:33them that on the left and right of Raul Gandhi is a Neha Bora who is immensely inspired by
31:39Bangladesh where over 1,500 Bangladeshi citizens were murdered in cold blood.
31:43And that's the word I'm using.
31:44And on the other side is Prashant Kishor who says,
31:47Now it's bad, it's not bad.
31:49So, people who are crying out.
31:50Prashant Bhushan, not Prashant Kishor.
31:51I want to correct you.
31:52No, no, no.
31:53My apologies.
31:54Slip of tongue there.
31:55Prashant Kishor.
31:56And Prashant Bhushan has been unapologetic about it.
32:03He has tallied it again.
32:04Congress leaders have also not stepped away from it.
32:07If you had so much of a problem with what these two were saying and this is actually
32:11asking for regime change through the barrel of a gun, not the ballot, you would have disassociated
32:16with these, not made them into the poster boy and poster girl of this particular protest
32:21and it's so easy to say.
32:22Sanjay Jha, Aarti, Jairat both disagree with you but I have to quickly bring in Mohammed
32:25Ameen into this conversation and I want both Aarti and Sanjay to respond but Mohammed
32:29Ameen, should the CEC or the election commission be worried by a mock parliament or mock impeachment
32:35of Gyanesh Kumar, this is democracy, this is dissent.
32:39Aarti Jairat says as long as it's peaceful, no problem.
32:44Amant, it's not possible.
32:46Actually, they don't have the number of the games.
32:48That's why they have gone on the streets for that.
32:51Otherwise, they can come to the parliament and they can frame the impeachment.
32:56That is the process only.
32:57Supreme Court cannot do it.
32:59He cannot remove the chief election commissioner.
33:01That is the only agenda is there, to remove the chief election commissioner.
33:06But he's honestly, he's working for the country and everything in the eyes of the law.
33:11So, he's honestly working, he's everything in the eyes of the law.
33:14Okay.
33:14And he has already submitted, submitted all the replies to the Supreme Court of India.
33:19Okay.
33:20And of course, now courts will decide.
33:22Absolutely.
33:22When there is a dispute between two people, Aarti Jairat, when there is a dispute between two
33:26sides, you know, ultimately we go to courts of law.
33:31But is there a deliberate attempt to create ill will either towards constitutional bodies
33:38like the election commission or even in one case.
33:41Now, since that tweet has been deleted, I do not want to name the party or the state
33:47from where that tweet came.
33:48But it tried to create ill will towards the chief justice of India.
33:52Completely unacceptable.
33:53Isn't it, ma'am?
33:54Perhaps that's why they deleted it.
33:57As I said, in a democracy, dissent is allowed.
34:01And this Charu Pragya is completely off the mark.
34:04I mean, two people went to Jantar Mantar after it was denotified with the flag.
34:09They did not burn anything.
34:11They did not loot anything.
34:13They did not vandalize anything.
34:14It was perfectly peaceful.
34:16And they were picked up by the police and detained.
34:19So, I mean, that's what happens in democracy.
34:21Charu Pragya, read your own history of your own party.
34:26Remember the number of times they used to smash buses, vandalize cars, set buses on fire.
34:32You forgot, or maybe you were too young and you don't know about it.
34:36But the fact is that every political party has done this in the past, do it today.
34:41But, but, but, but, no, no, no, I disagree.
34:44I disagree.
34:47I absolutely and completely disagree with you.
34:50You cannot be signing an undertaking saying that you're not going to be participating in a protest and then do
34:55a about turn the minute the police walk out.
34:58You cannot be signing bonds and break them.
35:01And that's exactly why CCP has done a complete U-turn on its stand on these protests.
35:06You would do well to remember that.
35:08If they were in the right, they wouldn't have done a U-turn on the protest.
35:11Secondly, ma'am, it was not just breaching barricades.
35:14It was also not just stopping the police from carrying out their duty.
35:19It was willful defiance after giving the undertaking.
35:22And on top of that, trying to turn the narrative into one where it was shown.
35:26Or they tried to show that detention happened for holding a tiramka when it is so far from the truth.
35:32Okay, I got it.
35:34Aati ma'am, I'm respectful of your age, but I'm not going to allow you to browbeat me here.
35:38I'm respectful of your age, but that doesn't mean that you can tell me.
35:42And if something wrong might have happened in the history of this country,
35:45it means, yes, yes, let's welcome it again and let's do it all over again.
35:49Is that what you're saying?
35:50So if Congress...
35:52No, no, no, this is terrible.
35:53And it's not...
35:54It's a complete non-argument.
35:55It's a complete non-argument.
35:58I don't need to remember anything.
36:00Here we are...
36:01Here you are, Radha, trying to promote a protest with this...
36:06One by one.
36:07This sense is not anarchy.
36:09Gaurav, this is terrible.
36:11This is terrible.
36:12One by one.
36:12One by one.
36:13One by one.
36:14I cannot believe that she is doping to this sense.
36:17No, no, no, no.
36:17One by one.
36:18So democracy, you know, dissent is a right and everybody has a right to dissent.
36:24But dissent also cannot end up vandalizing public property or, you know, there has to be limits
36:32to dissent that it does not obstruct the other person from carrying out his duties.
36:36Please, you know, it's time.
36:38I think now the moon is up for all those who are following Karvachot ritual.
36:44You know, they would want to, you know, now go see the moon and perhaps break their fast.
36:50And on that note, I want to thank all our guests.
36:52I wish you all a great Karvachot and a great time ahead.
36:56Thank you so much for joining me.
36:58This, of course, is a debate that we will continue to track very, very closely in the days and weeks
37:04ahead
37:04because it's only set to intensify.
37:06Film star Naseeruddin Shah is in the eye of a storm over his viral comments on being a dimagi naqsal,
37:15tukre-tukre gang and anti-national awards to that effect.
37:19And this has triggered a political storm.
37:22The BJP has hit back.
37:23In fact, Union Parliamentary Affairs Minister and Minority Affairs Minister Kiran Rijiju
37:28accused the actor of glorifying an ideology he considers dangerous for Indian democracy.
37:35The BJP's charge is clear.
37:38Defeating armed naqsalism is only one part of the battle won.
37:42The ideological challenge, it argues, remains.
37:46India Today gets you more in this report.
38:03A veteran actor, a loaded label and a political firestorm.
38:09Naseeruddin Shah's declaration of being a dimagi naqsal has reopened a fierce debate
38:15over dissent, ideology and nationalism.
38:21In a video addressing student protests, including those at Delhi's Jamia Milia Islamia,
38:27the veteran actor embraced labors such as intellectual naqsal, anti-national and tukre-tukre gang.
38:51Union Minister Kiran Rijiju is having none of it.
38:54The minister, who says he once respected the actor, branded him a dangerous urban naqsal
39:00and called his views harmful to Indian democracy.
39:04Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his independent state speech this year
39:08had warned against dimagi naqsals.
39:38Prime Minister Narendra Modi
39:41Pakistan and actor Puneet Isar have also joined the fray, making allegations about
39:45Shah's political sympathies and public positions.
39:48He is a demagi naqsal.
39:51Naseeruddin Shah, like our Moodi, he is a demagi naqsal.
39:57He is a demagi naqsal.
39:59He has read the script that Pakistan has given them for a while.
40:02You don't need a selective thing.
40:06You don't need to be a selective thing.
40:07You become a mouthful in India, when you become a mouthful in India,
40:10you become a mouthful into the mouthful, you don't do anything.
40:24The veteran actor backs students' protest and wears the label with pride.
40:29Union Minister Kiran Rijiju has launched a blistering counter-attack.
40:35But this is no longer just a war of words.
40:38It is a debate over what constitutes dissent
40:40and when political defiance crosses the line.
40:44We are a report, India Today.
40:48And Israel's elections have delivered a political cliffhanger.
40:52Now, there is a very serious allegation of vote chori or election theft.
40:58An allegation that's been leveled by Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud Party.
41:04With more than 90% of the votes counted,
41:06Benjamin Netanyahu's alliance is projected to win 53 seats in the 120-member kerosene.
41:13The opposition bloc, led by former army chief Gadi Aizenkot, is on course for about 48 seats.
41:19While the Arab-led parties are projected to secure a historic 19 seats combined.
41:25But the magic number is 61 and neither bloc is anywhere close to a clear majority.
41:32The battle is not just about numbers.
41:35In a sharply worded statement, Benjamin Netanyahu's led Likud party has alleged that the elections were stolen by Arab parties,
41:43citing alleged threats, violence at polling booths, multiple voting behind curtains,
41:48and the use of prohibited software to mobilize voters.
41:53Benjamin Netanyahu has actually gone a step further.
41:55He's branded this controversy Ra'am Gate and alleged that foreign funds were used to boost Arab turnout.
42:04He's framed the dispute as an attempt to push Islamization of Israel and mount what he calls is a foreign
42:12takeover of the Kereset.
42:14Claims that are yet to be independently verified, but this controversy is now escalating into a national security investigation.
42:22The head of Israel's Central Election Committee has ordered the Shin Bet, the country's internal intelligence agency,
42:29to investigate suspected foreign interference in parliamentary elections.
42:33The move follows what has been described as an exceptionally grave alert over allegations of improper foreign funding aimed at
42:42influencing election results.
42:44Investigators have been asked to establish where the money from foreign entities and individuals was used to interfere in Israel's
42:52democratic process.
42:54So Israel now faces two parallel battles.
42:57The high-stake negotiations over who can command a parliamentary majority and a growing dispute over the very integrity of
43:06these elections.
43:07Pranay Upadhyay is on Ground Zero. He gets us more on the story.
43:12Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took it to social media.
43:15He posted a social media post on his social media timeline saying that there has been widespread fraud, widespread misappropriation
43:24as far as channeling of the funding is concerned to consolidate Arab voters.
43:28And since the Arab parties have secured these 19 seats, which is unprecedented in the electoral history of Israel,
43:35So therefore, he is trying to call this out an unnatural outcome of the electoral process.
43:39And that's why he has not only challenged it, but asked the election committee, which is the election commission equivalent
43:45of Israel,
43:47and asked them to investigate.
43:50And thereafter, the election committee has ordered Shin Bet to investigate these matters and these allegations.
43:56However, primarily, they said that they did not find any substantial case of electoral irregularities.
44:04And, you know, these elections were closely monitored by around 100,000 personals who were deployed for the free and
44:12fair conduct of the elections.
44:14But there have been some instances here and there where, like, you know, around three people were arrested with a
44:19large sum of cash.
44:21But, you know, out of them, one was released and two are still being questioned.
44:26So there is no widespread, there is no evidence of a widespread, you know, misappropriation or irregularity or, you know,
44:33the foreign funding of the election.
44:36But since Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has leveled these allegations, therefore, it is being investigated by Shin Bet,
44:43which is equivalent to, you know, our Intelligence Bureau in India.
44:47And it's a premier police and investigating agency of Israel.
44:51First, we don't know the final results.
44:54But whatever the majority they voted for, this has to be the results.
45:00It has to be acceptable and respectable.
45:02This is the Democrat country, right?
45:05So whatever is going to happen, it is.
45:08So anyone who doesn't accept it, they have a choice.
45:11There's many flights leaving Israel every other day.
45:14They can leave the country.
45:15So, but if you want to live here, you have to accept it.
45:18Our power in the Knesset is very decisive, is very crucial.
45:23And as we have promised our community, we would like to use this power to facilitate getting rid of Netanyahu's
45:34government and hopefully helping to change the political situation in Israel.
45:44And my colleague, Pranay Upadhyay, now joins me for more on the story.
45:47Pranay, is there any more clarity on the situation on ground?
45:52And what about these very serious charges of vote chori that apparently Shin Bet will now investigate?
46:01This is actually taking a serious turn and it has become an international issue to guard because just now, you
46:06look at the government of Qatar and its foreign ministry spokesperson has put out a statement saying that unnecessary Qatar's
46:12name is being dragged into domestic political controversy of Israel.
46:15And in fact, you know, Judge Solberg also had a meeting with Gadi Eisenkot regarding these investigations and also these
46:25allegations.
46:26So definitely Shin Bet, which is the equivalent of our Intelligence Bureau and one of the most powerful institutions of
46:34Israel would be investigating these allegations.
46:37Though there are no on-ground evidences or reports, you know, clearly, which actually suggests that there has been a
46:44mass rigging of the election.
46:46But certainly as Prime Minister Netanyahu and his liquid party has given complaints to the Election Committee of Israel, this
46:53matter is being investigated.
46:54But having said that, almost 95, over 95 percent of voting, vote count has already been done.
47:01And in fact, the Election Committee of Israel has said that they would be concluding the double envelope or the
47:07judicial votes counting to be concluded by the end of the day.
47:11And, you know, they are expecting to conclude this process and announce the election result by Friday, which is short
47:20of November, you know, by Friday or maybe like, you know, in one day or two.
47:25Then it's up to the President of Israel to decide who he invites, whether it's the single largest party, which
47:31is Benjamin Netanyahu's liquid party, or whoever he deems, he deems fit.
47:37Okay, who can form a stable government?
47:40Yeah, Gaurav, either way, in that case, the claim of Prime Minister Netanyahu is quite strong because his party is
47:46the single largest party, his coalition is the single largest coalition.
47:49And now, he has actually created a very interesting situation and has put pressure on the other party, opposition party,
47:57to take the support of the Arab parties because, you know, Mansoor, Ram party chief, Mohamed Mansoor, had a meeting
48:04with Yair Golan and some of the other political partners in the opposition bloc.
48:09So, we have to see that who now switches the side and who forms the government.
48:13Very interesting developments. Keep tracking that story. I will come back to you for more Pranayupadhyay in Israel for the
48:19moment. Many thanks for joining me.