- 17 hours ago
A debate on India First highlights a confrontation between the Bharatiya Janata Party and the Congress regarding overseas trips by opposition leaders and accusations surrounding voter list revisions. The BJP questioned visits abroad and meetings with international figures, asking why details are not made public and alleging attempts to build narratives against national interests. In response, the Congress dismissed the allegations as fabricated attempts to distract from critical matters, pointing to large-scale irregularities in the electoral roll, unauthorized changes via Form 6, and concerns over the deletion of voter names. While the opposition demanded accountability and a press conference from the government on the sanctity of the electoral system, the ruling party maintained that voter roll updates account for shifted, deceased, or absent individuals and challenged the opposition to furnish verifiable evidence in court.
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00:00The gloves are off. Joining me on this India First Debate, R.P. Singh, National Spokesperson of the Bharatiya Janata
00:05Party,
00:06and Ruchira Chaturvedi, National Spokesperson of the Congress. Welcome.
00:10R.P. Singh, Rahul Gandhi is Leader of Opposition. He's a five-term Member of Parliament.
00:17Are these allegations just political mudslinging? Where is the illegality in what he's doing?
00:23You just heard Salman Khursheed saying, if he's going abroad on his personal time, why should the government know?
00:31Or why does the BJP want to know?
00:34Well, Gaurav, he's a leader of the opposition.
00:38And when the leader of the opposition or any political entity travels abroad,
00:43especially who's in the system of the government,
00:47whether it's the leader of the opposition or the chief minister or any minister,
00:50or even the home minister or the prime minister, anyone else to travel abroad,
00:53has to tell that where is he going?
00:55Because his security, his concern for government, one.
00:58Secondly, he has to declare that he's going on a private visit.
01:02He's going to meet his family members or his so-called family members who are abroad.
01:06We don't know who are the family members in Vietnam.
01:09But if he's going there, let him declare that I'm going for a private visit
01:12and I'm off the Indian political scene.
01:16I'm taking off and I need to relax for some time.
01:18I've worked hard.
01:19No, but is there a law that he's mandated to do so?
01:23If there is no such law, why is the government prying into his private affairs, sir?
01:29Gaurav, it's nothing like private affair.
01:31When he goes and meets Alan Omar, is it a private affair?
01:35When he meets people abroad who are anti-India, who takes anti-India stance,
01:39is it a private affair?
01:40When he meets people who say that India should be broken into two parts
01:44and Kashmir is not part of India, is it a private affair?
01:46When he meets Colonel Wall in Germany, who speaks about India being the union of states,
01:58so he doesn't take India as a nation.
02:01Or when he meets other leaders like Jayan Sokoswuri and when they support Omar Khareg here?
02:10Is the issue concerned?
02:12Let me get Ruchira Chaturvedi to respond.
02:14Ma'am, the BJP is raising questions about Rahul Gandhi's foreign visits
02:18and the people he meets.
02:20They're drawing a parallel between his visits and the protests.
02:23As leader of opposition and as a senior political leader and a public figure,
02:28should Rahul Gandhi respond on these allegations point one
02:31and his meetings with leaders like Ilhan Omar, who are known India beters, ma'am?
02:37You know, I find it deeply unfortunate that at a time when there are large-scale irregularities
02:43coming up in our election system, instead of addressing those concerns,
02:47the ruling party is asking questions of the leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi.
02:51And let me tell you, this is a part of a toolkit.
02:54Any time questions are being asked, which are uncomfortable to the ruling party,
02:58to Prime Minister Modi, they somehow start attacking Rahul Gandhi.
03:02We also saw that during student protests.
03:04We saw that during farmers' protests.
03:05And now when leader of opposition is asking questions,
03:09which the Prime Minister and BJP have no response to,
03:12they are attacking him and they're asking him questions.
03:16In fact, questions should be asked to the Prime Minister, Narendra Modi.
03:19He should be addressing the concerns.
03:21People are out on the streets.
03:23They're asking that 13.5 crore voters have been removed from the list.
03:26What is the response?
03:28Form 6, there have been illegal and unauthorized changes which have been made.
03:32What are the answers?
03:33I think the questions should be asked to the Prime Minister.
03:36Why are questions being asked to Rahul Gandhi, he's not the Prime Minister?
03:38He is leader of opposition.
03:41He is accountable.
03:43But R.P. Singh, all points raised by BJP,
03:46including these alleged meetings with individuals and entities,
03:49you may consider hostile to either your party or the government.
03:54Not to the party, to the nation.
03:56Sir, if there is any illegality in it.
03:57Not to the party, to the nation.
03:59When they raise questions about Kashmir,
04:02is Kashmir not part of India?
04:04When Prime Minister Jaipal talks about Kashmir,
04:07when Sunita Vishwanathan talks about Kashmir,
04:08he goes and meets all these people.
04:10When it's not party or our government,
04:14it's about the entity, very basic entity of the country.
04:17Integrity of the country.
04:18They question the integrity of the country.
04:19They talk about Kashmir every time Rahul Gandhi goes and meets them.
04:23And Huda Rang Omar, she categorically stated that Kashmir is not part of India.
04:28We should have represented in India.
04:30Free and fair elections are fundamental to our democracy.
04:34When questions are being raised,
04:35whether there is sanctity of free and fair elections or not,
04:38whether citizens are able to trust the election process or not,
04:41is it not the duty of the Prime Minister
04:43to come out and do a press conference and respond to everything?
04:47And this is not just the Congress and the opposition which is raising questions.
04:50We had a leading media house,
04:52the Indian Express did a story.
04:53The two election commissioners are asking questions.
04:55Why is the BJP and Prime Minister not addressing those concerns?
05:00Why are they not answering questions?
05:02Okay.
05:03R.P. Singh, you want to quickly respond?
05:04Because my question to you, R.P. Singh, is
05:06if Rahul Gandhi is doing something that you deem illegal,
05:11if there is a violation of the law,
05:13then register a case,
05:15produce evidence,
05:16and then prosecute in courts of law on the basis of evidence,
05:20aren't these just political innuendos and allegations that are being made,
05:24hoping something will stick, sir?
05:26Not at all.
05:27When he spoke,
05:28when he went abroad in one of the universities in America
05:32and told a Sikh gentleman,
05:34a Sikh young boy,
05:35that, oh,
05:36you're not allowed to wear turban in India,
05:38you're not allowed to wear kada in India,
05:39there's a case already filed against him in Allahabad.
05:42Now, people of India are quite aware of the subject.
05:44So,
05:45he tries to instigate,
05:46when he goes,
05:47he tries to instigate people also.
05:48He tries to instigate,
05:49he tries to build up a narrative there.
05:51Although there are the people,
05:52there's a party who is known as the butcher of the Sikhs,
05:54the 1st November and 31st October is coming,
05:57they butcher 3006 in India,
05:58and he has cheered up to go abroad and tell a Sikh young gentleman,
06:03that you're not allowed to wear turban,
06:04you're not allowed to wear kada,
06:06you're not allowed to go to Kurdwala.
06:07So, he is trying to use that platform to instigate the violence here also.
06:12But that's point is,
06:12Sir, that's a very grave charge that you're leveling.
06:14I'm telling you,
06:16there's already a case against him in Allahabad court.
06:19Okay.
06:20Ruchila Chaturvedi,
06:21you want to respond to this?
06:22Because the BJP sites,
06:23I think about 54 odd foreign trips,
06:27BJP claims that cost some 60 crore rupees against a declared income of 11 crore rupees.
06:33So, if these charges are wrong,
06:36if they are baseless,
06:37should the Congress not explore a defamation route?
06:40There's no credibility with any data,
06:41with any numbers.
06:42All they do is lie.
06:43So, I am not going to answer anything that the BGP claims is the number.
06:47The question here is very simple.
06:49I absolutely agree with what you're saying,
06:51that this Soros bogey,
06:52the country is very tired of it.
06:54If you really think that he is doing anything which is illegal or anything unconstitutional,
06:58you are in government.
06:59You must take,
06:59you know,
07:00take action.
07:01You must put him behind bars.
07:02Please do that.
07:02But you're not doing that because your intention is only to distract from the real issues.
07:07You do not,
07:08you have a problem that he's asking questions which are uncomfortable to you.
07:12He's asking questions about the election system.
07:14And let me also tell you,
07:15he's not making anything up.
07:17He has presented hard evidence.
07:19A lot of the data that has,
07:21one of the stories has also been verified on your channel, India Today.
07:24So I am saying that it is hard data which has been presented.
07:27And the least that the BGP can do is,
07:29the Prime Minister can do is,
07:31answer those questions,
07:33respond to them instead of always doing the press conference to.
07:35Okay, R.P. Singh wants to respond to you.
07:36R.P. you had your,
07:37R.P. Singh you had your hand up.
07:38You want to respond to Ruchir Raj Chaturvedi,
07:40saying,
07:40he's asking you hard questions.
07:43Response, sir.
07:45Gaurab,
07:46basic question is,
07:47what is this Ilan Umar?
07:49What is this Rista with Pramila Jayapal?
07:51What is this Rista with Sunita Vishwanathan?
07:54What is this relationship?
07:55What is this relationship?
07:55I am not saying the relationship,
07:57but what is the political or what is the bigger game plan behind this?
08:01And when Sam Pradhoda says,
08:02oh,
08:03if George Soros spent 10 crore billion dollars here,
08:07what's the worst wrong in it?
08:08He,
08:09he,
08:10what are certifying that?
08:11If you think the leader of the opposition is doing something illegal,
08:14unconstitutional,
08:15take action.
08:15What stops you?
08:16It's your government.
08:18What stops you from acting?
08:19It's your government.
08:20I am already acting.
08:20There is already a case against him in Lallaba,
08:22but I just told you,
08:24why are you not taking action?
08:25You should be taking action with the government.
08:28If indeed there is something illegal unconstitutional,
08:31it's your government.
08:33Why are you not taking action?
08:35Just answer my question.
08:36One by one.
08:37It's your government.
08:39One by one.
08:40And Aarpi Singh,
08:41that's a fair point that Ruchira raises here.
08:43She says that when the BJP talks of 54 foreign trips,
08:48or when BJP talks about 60 crore rupees spent on these foreign visits against a declared income of some 11
08:54crore rupees,
08:54or words to that effect,
08:55if there is evidence of wrongdoing,
08:58why is legal action not being taken?
09:01You are the government in power,
09:03sir.
09:03BJP cannot level allegations.
09:05BJP has been in power for 12 years and counting.
09:08Produce evidence in courts of law.
09:10Let there be evidence-based prosecution in courts, sir.
09:16Well, Gaurav,
09:17when he goes abroad and asks the European and the Western countries in America to intervene in India,
09:22because it's said to democracy here,
09:24what does that mean?
09:26What does that mean?
09:27Tell me that.
09:27I mean,
09:28we can't file a case against him on this issue,
09:29but as I told you earlier,
09:31someone has gone to the high court in Al-Arabad,
09:34seeking action against him on his provoking a sick child there,
09:38but coming to the issue back,
09:40that's why, ma'am,
09:41your SIR goes,
09:42your leaders in Punjab has accepted SIR.
09:45This is not a issue.
09:46This is not a issue in the country.
09:46This is a bad habit.
09:47This is a bad habit.
09:49Please answer.
09:50Okay.
09:50Ma'am,
09:51ma'am,
09:51let Avri Singh complete his point.
09:52I'm coming to you.
09:54Your leader in Punjab has accepted and said that SIR is well done in Punjab.
09:59Your leader in,
10:00your home minister in Kerala has said categorically,
10:03yes,
10:03we won because of SIR was conducted.
10:06Mr. Ramesh,
10:07he said that we won election in Kerala because of SIR.
10:10Mr. Ramesh Reddy appreciated election commission
10:13when election commission deleted 22 lakh vote
10:16and said,
10:17yes,
10:17thank you,
10:18election commission.
10:19So,
10:20it is,
10:20when it suits you,
10:21it goes by whenever it suits you,
10:22you are happy with it.
10:23When it doesn't,
10:24when you lose elections,
10:25you say,
10:25no,
10:25no,
10:25there is a problem with EVM,
10:27there is a problem with,
10:29SIR.
10:30So,
10:31one can see through it,
10:32but what is the game plan?
10:33Ruchira Chaturvedi,
10:34you must respond to this
10:35because
10:36whenever your party wins,
10:39your leaders win,
10:40SIR is okay.
10:41When they lose,
10:43then our electoral system is bad.
10:45The BJP has also questioned Rahul Gandhi's overseas meetings and travels
10:49saying,
10:50can the Congress explain the individuals and entities he meets when he's overseas
10:57because he comes back with what the BJP claims is a regime change, Raga ma'am.
11:03See,
11:03I want to say this,
11:04I want to say two things.
11:05One is that it is not about win and losses.
11:08BJP wants to reduce every argument to victory and loss.
11:11This is about the sanctity of our electoral process.
11:14So,
11:15if large-scale irregularities are coming to light,
11:17and this is not just the Congress saying this,
11:19I'm repeating this,
11:20this is not just the opposition saying it,
11:22there are the election commissioners who are saying it,
11:24there are the media which are saying it,
11:26could they not be looking to?
11:27Chaturvedi,
11:28complete a point,
11:29I'll come back to you.
11:30Let me please complete,
11:32yes.
11:32I am saying that,
11:34if there are large-scale irregularities coming to life,
11:37if citizens are out on the road protesting,
11:39should you not be looking into it?
11:41Why are you defending it instead of,
11:43you know,
11:44addressing the concerns of the people?
11:45It is very simple.
11:46And it is hard data.
11:47It is election commission data.
11:49Why are you not looking into it?
11:51So, Ruchira Chaturvedi,
11:51permit me to ask you a question.
11:54Congress says,
11:55there are irregularities,
11:56irregularities,
11:57and 13.5 crore names have been deleted from the system.
12:01The election commission has given its response.
12:04The BJP has its own take on this.
12:06When there is a point of dispute on anything,
12:09it's settled by courts of law.
12:11The matter is in courts of law.
12:13Evidence, if any,
12:14has to be produced in courts of law.
12:17What is,
12:18you know,
12:18what are these serial protests all about
12:20when the matter is in court,
12:22point one,
12:23point two,
12:24the point,
12:25the allegation that is being made,
12:27that Rahul Gandhi
12:28and Sonia Gandhi,
12:30they reportedly met
12:32individuals or entities
12:34related to,
12:35as the BJP puts it,
12:37some progressive international.
12:38Would you like to elaborate on
12:40what was this meeting all about?
12:41They say that there is a pattern being drawn
12:45that you weaken constitutional entities in India
12:49like it is happening overseas.
12:51And there are these hidden hands that are involved,
12:54is the allegation, ma'am.
12:57No,
12:57I would not like to respond to any of BJP's allegations
13:00because these are things which have been concocted.
13:02These are fabricated charges.
13:04There's no evidence to it.
13:05What I'm saying is
13:07that we went to court.
13:09We've only gone to court now.
13:11Our first response,
13:12if you remember last year,
13:13leader of opposition did press conferences,
13:15presenting hard data
13:16and asking questions to the election commission.
13:18When we did not receive any response
13:20from the election commission,
13:21who in fact mocked us,
13:23the chief election commissioner laughed at us,
13:25even now when the opposition MPs
13:27tried to go to the election commission
13:29to just seek a meeting,
13:30it was nothing else.
13:31We just said that
13:31we want to meet the chief election commissioner
13:33to put forward our concerns.
13:35When repeatedly,
13:36the doors have been closed on our face,
13:39now we have gone to the court.
13:40So what will we do?
13:41When the election commissioner,
13:43chief election commissioner
13:44who is responsible for taking these decisions,
13:46when we are asking questions,
13:48they do not respond to us,
13:49so will we not protest?
13:50What will we do?
13:51What else will we do?
13:52Fair enough.
13:53Respond, R.P. Singh,
13:54because your party MP
13:55and your colleague Sambit Patra
13:57allege that Rahul Gandhi receives,
13:59in his words,
14:01coaching
14:01to overthrow the government.
14:04Sir,
14:04where is any verifiable evidence
14:06to support such a serious charge
14:09against the leader of opposition here?
14:12I'll come to that a little later.
14:13First, let me tell about
14:15what she said,
14:16the evidence she's talking about.
14:18He went to the president of India
14:19and said,
14:20we are getting the evidence to you.
14:23President of India is still waiting
14:25for the evidence.
14:26I mean,
14:26just all stories.
14:28And also,
14:30as far the election commission goes,
14:31when you seek a time
14:33and when you are given a time,
14:35you say,
14:35no, no,
14:36when you are given a time
14:37for 30 member of parliament,
14:38you say,
14:38no, no, no, no, no.
14:39We all,
14:39150 will come together.
14:41Next time,
14:41you say,
14:42all 240 will come together.
14:43And as far,
14:44all of India goes,
14:45man,
14:46remember that Akash Bhani
14:47governed Bhavan
14:48security guard
14:49who told Mr. Rahul Gandhi,
14:51we don't know
14:51that the vote is not
14:52going to happen.
14:53We have to stop you
14:54and stop you
14:54and stop you
14:55and stop you.
14:55But you have to
14:56kill your country.
14:57This is one of the terms
14:58which the security guard
14:59of the Akash Bhani
15:00told Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
15:02So as far,
15:02140 people go,
15:03they know
15:04what is the truth,
15:05what is the story
15:06which has been built.
15:07But coming to your question,
15:09let's understand,
15:10there's an organization
15:12FDLAP,
15:13Forum of Democratic Dealers
15:14in Asia Pacific.
15:15Sonia Gandhi Ji
15:16is the co-chairperson.
15:18Please go through
15:18the website
15:19of that organization
15:20that say Kashmir
15:21is not part of India.
15:23That says that Kashmir,
15:24we need to have
15:25a private side of India,
15:26private side in Kashmir.
15:27They say that Kashmir
15:28is occupied by India.
15:30So what else do you need?
15:32I'm telling you,
15:34the individual partner
15:34deny that Sonia Gandhi
15:36is the co-chairperson
15:37there or not.
15:38Okay,
15:39because you know,
15:40as public figures,
15:41as political figures,
15:41as leaders,
15:42as leader of opposition,
15:44you know,
15:44Rahul Gandhi,
15:46the ruling party says
15:48he has to explain
15:50his conduct,
15:51he has to explain
15:52what he does overseas
15:53or the issue
15:54that R.P. Singh
15:55is raising about Sonia Gandhi,
15:57does he need to explain
15:58or do they need to explain
15:59in your view, ma'am?
16:02So all the responsibility,
16:04all the questions
16:04will be asked
16:05and all the answers
16:06are expected
16:06of leader of opposition,
16:07Rahul Gandhi,
16:08but Prime Minister Modi,
16:09who is the Prime Minister
16:09of the country,
16:10will not answer any questions.
16:11He will not answer questions
16:13about the voters
16:14who have been deleted,
16:15the Form 6,
16:15illegal,
16:16illegal and unauthorized changes,
16:18which again,
16:19Congress is not saying it,
16:20two election commissioners
16:21are saying it,
16:22those changes have been made,
16:23right?
16:24He's not going to answer
16:25any questions about that.
16:26Just today,
16:27there have been reports,
16:28what would the Pili beat?
16:29Pili beat 16,500,
16:3016,000 voters,
16:32their details have been changed.
16:34Okay.
16:35In Goa,
16:3697 eligible votes
16:37could not be added
16:39because the state election officers
16:41did not have access.
16:43They wrote to the election commission.
16:44Who is going to answer about this?
16:46Prime Minister has no responsibility.
16:48Are we seeing serious issues
16:48that the opposition is raising
16:50about transparency
16:52and of the electoral system
16:55and there have to be answers
16:57beyond press releases
16:59or will answers now come
17:00in the form of affidavits
17:01in court of law?
17:04Well, Gaurav,
17:05as far 13 crore voters go,
17:06there are almost 6.5 lakhs,
17:086.9 lakhs,
17:08which are dead
17:09or which are absent
17:11or were shifted.
17:13There are 2.5,
17:142.8 crore which are shifted.
17:15So, they want to bank upon
17:17the voters who are dead,
17:18who are shifted
17:19or who are not traceable.
17:21So, that's the complete number
17:23of 13 crore voters.
17:24But issue is other.
17:26Issue is that
17:27they are raising issues.
17:28Okay, the opposition should raise issues.
17:30But they need to bring out
17:31with the hard evidence.
17:33Some documents, some paper.
17:34The matter now
17:35is in courts of law.
17:38Ultimately,
17:39when there is a dispute
17:40between two sides,
17:43when there is a dispute
17:44between two sides,
17:46it's courts of law
17:47that decide
17:48in a strong democracy
17:50that India is.
17:51I want to thank both
17:52Ruchira Chaturvedi
17:54and R.P. Singh
17:54for joining me here
17:55on this part of India first.