Stop Overthinking! How to Lead Under Pressure | Marc Hildebrand - video Dailymotion

Workforce Alchemy

Is overthinking hurting your leadership?  Discover how to stay calm under pressure, make better decisions, manage employee performance, and lead with confidence.  Former LAPD sergeant and leadership coach Marc Hildebrand joins Mason Duchatschek on The Workforce Alchemy Show to reveal how your thinking affects your leadership, employee relationships, and business results.  Drawing on 20 years with the LAPD, Marc shares real-world lessons about leading through high-pressure situations, overcoming self-doubt, and understanding what's really driving employee behavior.  In this episode, you'll discover:  - How to stop overthinking and make confident leadership decisions. - Why understanding employee behavior is essential to effective management. - How to stay calm and inspire confidence during difficult situations. - Marc's five-part Growth Model: Reality, Perspective, Emotion, Response, and Results. - How to build employee trust, accountability, and engagement. - Why mastering self-leadership comes before leading others.  Whether you're a business owner, CEO, executive, or manager, these practical leadership strategies can help you handle difficult conversations, strengthen your team, and make better decisions under pressure.  CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Marc Hildebrand 00:47 Leadership Lessons from the LAPD 05:34 Understanding Employee Behavior 11:04 How Overthinking Hurts Leadership 13:47 Making Better Decisions as a CEO 16:17 Self-Coaching Under Pressure 20:53 The Five-Part Growth Model 26:09 Inspiring Confidence in Your Team 31:12 Separating Facts from Assumptions 38:12 Handling Unpopular Decisions 42:36 Earning the Right to Lead Others  CONNECT WITH MARC HILDEBRAND Author of *Mastering Your Life Through Self Coaching*  Free leadership resources: https://modernleadership.us  CONNECT WITH WORKFORCE ALCHEMY Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist Mason's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masonduchatschek/ Mason's site: https://www.MasonDuchatschek.com Show Site: https://www.WorkforceAlchemyShow.com  Workforce Alchemy Magazine: https://workforcealchemymagazine.com/  **Subscribe for more practical insights on leadership development, employee engagement, hiring, and business management.**  #LeadershipDevelopment #ExecutiveLeadership #SelfLeadership

Transcript

00:07Welcome to the Mason Dukacek Show, presented by WorkforceAlchemy.com, where business leaders

00:13discover practical ways to select, engage, and retain their best employees.

00:18Today's guest, Mark Hildebrand, spent 20 years with the LAPD, including several years as

00:24a sergeant leading people in high-pressure situations.

00:26He's also the author of Mastering Your Life Through Self-Coaching, the tactical guide

00:32to get you to show up and earn the right to be a leader of leaders.

00:35His work focuses on why capable leaders repeat behaviors they already know are hurting them

00:41and how they can change the thinking underneath those patterns.

00:44Mark, welcome to the show.

00:45Mason, thank you for having me.

00:47So I know you spent 20 years in the LAPD.

00:49Take me to a moment when I guess you realized or learned that how a leader thinks under pressure

00:55can matter just as much as what they know.

00:59I know you've been in the military, but there's a lot of situations where you don't really know

01:03how people are going to show up until the stuff starts hitting the fan, right?

01:07When things are not going according to plan.

01:09And I like to think about this a little different in terms of like, actually, when those scenarios

01:12come up, it really gets you to see like, who are the people that not only you can depend

01:16on, but maybe some of the things that have been driving their behavior in the past.

01:19And when those situations come up, like who the real version of them is.

01:22I can think of a numerous different times in LAPD where the situation was going down

01:28and a leader was kind of losing their stuff.

01:31They were screaming on the radio, asking for help, and it was chaos.

01:35And I could feel all of the other officers around me going like, what's going on?

01:41What's happening?

01:41And you could see that they sense they were like losing their, not only like confidence

01:45and being able to handle the situation, but it was actually making a dangerous situation

01:49even more dangerous.

01:49But I used to have a lieutenant who was the opposite of this.

01:53I'm sure that you've, Mason, you've come across these people where no matter what's

01:56happening, they're the coolest, calmest heartbeat in the room.

02:00I have?

02:01Yes.

02:01And it feels amazing when you have that level of certainty where you're like, we don't know,

02:05like, you know, we're going through this situation.

02:07It's a difficult situation, but we're going to figure it out because we always do.

02:10And when you get behind a leader like that, it doesn't matter how much they know, how much

02:15they've studied, all of that kind of stuff.

02:16It just, it's, it's a level of confidence that helps you to attack a difficult situation

02:21and really show up as the best version of you.

02:24And what's crazy is like this.

02:25I love that you're saying that.

02:26Yeah.

02:26I love, thank you for saying that.

02:28I remember I was Army ROTC in college.

02:32It paid for my school.

02:32And I remember sitting in ROTC class wondering, am I ever going to be able to, am I ever going

02:37to apply this?

02:37Is it going to be real?

02:38And what we were taught, absolutely 100% applied in the field.

02:42And what you're saying there, you wouldn't have known this, but I wrote a book probably

02:4510 years ago called Inclusive Leadership.

02:47And it was when our unit was activated to fight the flood of 93 in St. Genevieve, Missouri.

02:53So I know exactly what you're talking about.

02:55And they, and I remember in ROTC class, they taught us, they said, always be calm.

02:59Even if you feel like you're freaking out inside, it requires discipline to portray calm

03:04because you set the standard.

03:06People are looking to you, not only for what to do, but how to react and how to interpret

03:10what's going on.

03:10And if, and if you're freaking out for lack of a better explanation, you're teaching

03:14everyone else.

03:15It's okay to freak out too.

03:16And now you've got chaos when you need calm.

03:18Yes.

03:18And even though everything in your body is telling you this isn't good, it requires complete

03:25focus and discipline to be able to say just what you said with that.

03:28However you described that leader, being calm.

03:30Hey, we'll get through this because we always have.

03:32And that is much easier said than done, but it's so valuable when like you've seen it firsthand.

03:38I seen it firsthand.

03:39There's a lot of folks watching, listening that have, and those that haven't take our

03:42word for it.

03:43Yes.

03:44It matters.

03:45It does.

03:46It does.

03:46It doesn't it?

03:47And I think what's, what's like important here is, is it doesn't just matter when you're

03:50in the field, when you're in war, it matters in every situation that you're going through,

03:54whether it's a situation in the boardroom, situation in your business, a situation,

03:58and with your family is, is realizing like you literally can model the behavior of being

04:04cool, calm and collected and figure things out.

04:06But like you said, it's not as easy as we think, right?

04:09Not easy at all.

04:10It's not.

04:10And, and this is really a lot of what I talk about is like being able to, we call it

04:14coaching

04:14ourselves, but it's really self-leadership.

04:16Being able to get yourself to show up in those situations as, like I said, the best version

04:20of you, because you know that people are watching.

04:22You know that you're, you're inspiring, you're, you're, you're getting people to see what,

04:27what, not just what you're saying, but like actually showing them through your words.

04:31We call it modeling the behavior that you want to see from others.

04:33Right.

04:33And it's not going back to this.

04:35It's not the easy times where you get to do that.

04:37I think so many of us are like afraid of it's like, it's, this is the hard time.

04:40It's a hard season.

04:40I'm like, this is the greatest opportunity ever because if this is actually what you get,

04:44where you get tested, this is where you get to find if people are a right fit or a wrong

04:48fit, if people have same values or different values, it's not like, I know, I know when

04:52you talk a lot about like your hiring assessments and things you do, right?

04:55It's not like just your resume.

04:56You can put anything you want on your resume, but when the stuff starts going to the sideways,

05:00like, you know who people really are, which is why you have to assess that beforehand and

05:04not just take them for surface value.

05:06But when you get underneath and you figure this out, it's usually during the hard times

05:09that you find out who like, who really has those true values.

05:13And it's not just all words, but like really does believe that.

05:16And this is like the opportunity in the hard times.

05:18One of my favorite quotes is good old Iron Mike Tyson.

05:21He said, everyone's got to play until you get punched in the face.

05:23Yes.

05:23And he's right.

05:25Yes, he does.

05:26You've seen it.

05:27I've seen it.

05:28Stuff gets tough and people, they fight or they fold.

05:31And I want to be around those to fight.

05:33100%.

05:33I'm with you.

05:34So was there a time when you initially thought that someone had an attitude, discipline

05:39or performance problem, but later realized something deeper was driving the behavior?

05:44If so, what happened?

05:45Yeah, yeah, yeah.

05:46Yeah, I've come to find that in a lot of different scenarios and a lot of different situations,

05:51I never know what's actually going on under the surface.

05:54And there have been plenty of times where I assumed because of the way that somebody acted

05:58or the way that somebody showed up that I must know what's going on behind the scenes.

06:02And I just remember having a partner who in this very specific situation, like responded

06:08in a way that was abnormal, not normal to what they normally respond.

06:11And this was kind of like the first time where I actually learned that there was something

06:15deeper under the surface is I didn't naturally just react and tell him, hey, stop, stop doing

06:21that.

06:21Start doing this.

06:22It was more of like, that was a little bit out of the norm.

06:25Like, is there something going on?

06:26Or is there something that I don't see here?

06:28That's like, that's maybe going on underneath the surface, come to find out he was having

06:32like marital problems and problems with his kids and a couple of different things like

06:35that, that, that like he was bringing into this scenario, into this situation, because

06:39we're humans.

06:40We tend to do that.

06:41Our brain goes wherever we actually take it.

06:44And so sometimes we have past experiences or situations that we're in and we accidentally

06:49carry it over into other places.

06:50Right.

06:50Cause we can't, I know everybody's like separate this from this separate work from personal.

06:54It's like, well, it's kind of impossible because it, yeah, yeah.

06:58It's, it's just the way that your brain works.

07:00Your brain travels everywhere that you go.

07:02Right.

07:02And in that scenario, just getting curious, asking some questions, finding out what was

07:07really going on, like help me to be able to connect with him.

07:10And then afterwards be able to say, well, and also like, we got to pay attention, pay attention

07:14to this behavior because what you said or what you did is not necessarily the best situation

07:18for this, but I know that you're going through this, this scenario and being there to support

07:22them through it was like a big deal.

07:24And it's kind of like one of those things where you don't just assume what is, why the

07:28person reacted that way.

07:28You actually got to find out, and we'll probably talk about this a little bit today, but the

07:31stories or perspectives are telling themselves and, and what, how that's actually driving

07:35their behavior.

07:36How did that particular incident work itself out?

07:38What happened next?

07:39So, so, well, first off, that person asked to be my partner long-term because like, like

07:43in that scenario, when, when, when I think about like the, my, my ultimate goal, my ultimate

07:49goal is I really want to be able to like connect with somebody to be able to see how we

07:53can

07:54lead each other together.

07:55Right.

07:55It's like a team atmosphere, especially when you're in a car for 12 hours with somebody

07:59else who's sitting on the other side.

08:00You don't know who it is sometimes before you actually get in there.

08:02Like the goal isn't to necessarily like solve this one problem.

08:05The goal is to create a relationship where we feel safe enough to have conversations because

08:09each other's life is going to be on the line in this scenario.

08:11Right.

08:12And so in this scenario, I was like, my ultimate goal wasn't to win a conversation or to tell

08:16him what he's doing wrong.

08:17My ultimate goal is like, I want to feel connected, but also feel safe enough because

08:21both of our like lives could be in each other's hands.

08:24Like in a moment's notice, like something could happen where I'm depending on him or

08:27he's depending on me and being able to connect with him was my ultimate goal, not the trying

08:31to solve this problem.

08:32And so after that, having a conversation, being able to figure this out, like I, it, it helps

08:37me to respond in a way that's better too, because I know what's going on behind the scenes

08:41and I'm not just guessing.

08:42So it helps me to be able to lead him more effectively too.

08:45So, like I said, it, we ended up becoming like partners for more longterm because I

08:50took the time to slow down and have that conversation.

08:52Now, one thing I do want to bring up is, is when you do that for somebody else and they

08:56feel how amazing it is to actually feel like they're safe enough to share that they start

09:00doing that for others.

09:01And so I start seeing it carried over into our radio calls, like responding to different

09:06places.

09:06And instead of assuming what's going on, like getting curious, asking questions, not assuming

09:11like this person did something because they're a bad person.

09:14No, they maybe have had some bad behavior, but there's something behind there that actually

09:17made them decide to do this.

09:19Cause they thought that this is just the right thing for them to do in that moment.

09:22Right.

09:22They convinced themselves to do it.

09:23And so I can see the ripple effect that happens when you start doing that with other

09:27people.

09:27It's like there's a bank account and you were making deposits in that bank account.

09:31100%.

09:32And at some point in time, you, you never know when the roles are going to be reversed and

09:35you're going to need to make some withdrawals, but you got to have the investment in

09:39it first.

09:40100%.

09:40So true.

09:41So what are the biggest mistakes leaders make when trying to correct visible behavior

09:45without really taking it?

09:47What happens when they don't take the time to understand that thinking and they just rush

09:50to it?

09:50Yeah.

09:51Yeah.

09:51So, so I'm sure you've seen that a bunch of times too.

09:54Yes.

09:55100%.

09:55You talked about how to do it right.

09:56I guess what I'm saying is you talked about how to do it right.

09:58What have you seen when people do it wrong?

10:00Yeah.

10:01Disconnection, disconnection.

10:02So, so, so it's kind of like the, the whole parent, like do what I said because I said so.

10:07Right.

10:07And, and like, sometimes people will do that when you're in front of them, but you actually

10:11like, they aren't bought into actually doing this when you're not there.

10:14So the inconsistency, but also why they're doing it, their energy behind doing it is

10:19very, very poor.

10:20So, so when we don't slow down, right?

10:23When we don't slow down, we actually can't speed up later.

10:24It just actually messes up the whole entire process.

10:27I mean, even, even going back to like the whole idea of like the hiring assessment,

10:31like what's coming up for me is like, a lot of times people feel like, oh, I've got

10:34to slow down.

10:35I've got to do these assessments.

10:36I've got to like, and in reality, what you're doing is you're helping to solve a problem.

10:39So you never have that problem again, but if you're just jumping in and telling people

10:42what to do and taking the actions, like you're solving a temporary problem right now, they're

10:46going to do it.

10:47But in the longterm, you're going to create a whole lot of disconnection, a whole lot

10:50of, you know, we, we, uh, we call it like the, the workplace of the culture is very negative

10:54and very toxic.

10:55Like if you're in that kind of place and like, people are just doing it when you're there,

10:59but not doing when, when you're not.

11:00So the end goal is as isn't actually solved.

11:02And there's a whole lot of disconnection.

11:04In your book, you describe being stuck in your own head, overthinking and being extremely critical

11:08of yourself.

11:09How'd that show up in your leadership?

11:10Even when people around you couldn't see what was happening internally?

11:14Yeah.

11:14So, so whenever I, I find that I'm stuck in my head, I tend to overthink things and I'm

11:19my, I have a lack of confidence.

11:21I don't actually ask people for feedback and people can feel it when I'm uncertain about

11:26like, whether it's what to do or the fact that we're going to be able to, to solve this

11:29problem, they can feel it.

11:31I'm sure like, uh, if you've got kids and you know, your kids come up to you and go, Hey,

11:35Hey dad, what's wrong?

11:36And you're like, nothing, nothing's wrong.

11:37No, they can feel it.

11:39It's one of those things where it's kind of like, you feel like you're doing a good job

11:41of hiding it, but people can see it.

11:43They can feel it.

11:44And, and that actually translates into their confidence in, in terms of like, not only

11:48the actions you're asking them to take, but even the why behind it.

11:51Right?

11:51So when we get into this whole process of overthinking for me, I feel like my confidence

11:55wanes.

11:56I can't communicate as effectively as, as I want to.

11:59And that, that actually affects more people than just me.

12:02So high performers often believe that overthinking is part of being prepared.

12:05How do you know when careful thinking is crossed the line and it's actually hurting your judgment

12:10or slowing you down?

12:11That's a great question.

12:12So, so my thing is reflection is reflecting on how you showed up in that scenario to see

12:17if you showed up, like we said, is the best version of you.

12:19There's, there's this dichotomy, right?

12:21It's like the, the pendulum can swing both ways.

12:23Number one is you could be totally unprepared and wing it.

12:26Right.

12:26And I know people who tell themselves stories of like, Hey, I'm the best when I wing it.

12:29Right.

12:29And, and a lot of times when you get into those scenarios, you can tell the person's

12:33winging it.

12:33They're trying to figure it out on, on their own.

12:35And it's not their best work, but then you have the opposite, which are the people who

12:39are like the over-preparers, which sometimes can be me.

12:41And I'm spending so much time and energy.

12:43And what I don't realize is I'm over-preparing so much that the actual real me is not there.

12:47It's like scripted or worked out or AI-ified.

12:51Right.

12:51And it's like, it's not actually the real me who is able to communicate and able to connect.

12:55So I find like that sweet spot in the middle for me is like the best place, but how I

12:59figure it out as I reflect, did I do too much?

13:01Did I do not enough?

13:03I mean, I will probably do that after this podcast.

13:05I'm like, did I give Mason too much?

13:07Did I give him too little?

13:09This is, but this is like what I do all the time.

13:12I take some time to reflect because so much of what we learned, not only does it like come

13:17from like the situations that we go through, but the times when we don't do it so well is

13:20as long as we can reflect, we call this failure gold.

13:22You can go back and you can pull out all those things.

13:25What did I do?

13:25Well, what are some things that I'm proud of?

13:27And also if I were to do this all over again, have another interview, what would I do differently?

13:31You can learn from all of these different scenarios, but you don't want to live there.

13:34You don't want to live in the past.

13:35You just want to pull the nuggets and the wisdom and then live right now.

13:38Right.

13:38Cause this is the only time to do that.

13:39So that's kind of like what I do is I like to reflect.

13:42I like to have my clients reflect too, because you learn so much when you're doing that and

13:46you can make corrections from there.

13:47So I guess kind of along a similar vein, what should a CEO do when they know that they need

13:52to make a decision or they have a difficult conversation or they need to have a difficult

13:55conversation, but maybe they're reflecting a little too much.

13:57They keep replaying every possible outcome in their head.

14:00Yeah.

14:00That's a great question.

14:02So, so what I would do in that scenario is I would ask them, what do they actually want

14:05in this situation?

14:06So what is their main result?

14:08What do they want out of it?

14:09Right.

14:09I would even maybe go a step further and go, why is that result so important and meaningful

14:13to you, to your team?

14:14Kind of impact is that going to make?

14:15And so the reason why is because a lot of times when we are focused on asking ourselves questions,

14:19we're asking ourselves questions that are based off of the past or what's broken, wrong

14:23or missing.

14:23Those are not good questions.

14:25When we ask ourselves, what's wrong with me?

14:27Why isn't this working?

14:28Why isn't it?

14:28Why isn't this person showing up this way?

14:30We're just literally living in the past and you can't go back and change the past.

14:34All you can do is figure out what you're going to do differently in the future.

14:37And so if you start focusing more on what do I actually want in this scenario?

14:41What is like the main goal of this?

14:43Why is that main goal so important and meaningful to me?

14:45What would it look like if I were to take a step forward in that direction?

14:48Like these are what we call generative.

14:51It's not necessarily positive, but it's generated.

14:53It's going to generate a brand new idea, help you get into some creative ways that you maybe

14:57would have never thought about.

14:59And so that's what I would do is I would help you to focus on the best of what you

15:03want,

15:03not what's broken, wrong or missing.

15:05I love what you just said.

15:06And for those people who are watching or listening, I'm a huge fan of Tony Robbins.

15:10I get to talk about this almost every episode because there's something that relates and you're

15:13dead on.

15:14He talks about questions are the key and asking questions.

15:16He goes, your brain will give you back the answers that you asked.

15:20Hey, why is this screwed up?

15:21Why is this so bad?

15:22Your brain will tell you.

15:23But if you adjust it and you can get the habit of saying, what's good about this problem?

15:28Or what's not perfect yet?

15:30Or how does this work to my advantage?

15:33Or how is this useful?

15:34Your brain will give you the answer about, hey, here's how this is useful.

15:37Or here's how this is helpful.

15:38Or here's the one thing.

15:40So what's not perfect yet implies that perfect is close.

15:44What little adjustment do I need to make here or there?

15:46And it really directs the focus of your thinking and your brain power towards positive outcomes

15:50as opposed to the opposite of that.

15:53So I love what you're saying and why.

15:56And very, very congruent with what Robbins taught and has served me well.

16:01I look back over my entire career and the times where obstacles came up, those obstacles

16:06became opportunities.

16:07And what do they say, necessity is the mother of invention if you're in a position where

16:10you say, hey, how can I use this?

16:12Or how can I use that?

16:13Or what's good about this problem?

16:16Yeah, it's a great way.

16:17Your book is about learning to coach yourself instead of letting your own thinking work against

16:21you.

16:22Can you give us a real example from your life where changing the way you interpret a situation

16:27changed what you ultimately did?

16:28Yeah.

16:29So I'm actually going to go back to the police example because when you were asking this question,

16:33this kind of popped up for me.

16:34So we have a process that we teach, it's called the growth model.

16:37And what it is, it's kind of like a way of being able to see how our thinking kind of

16:41steers our behavior.

16:42And in this very specific scenario, my partner and I were driving, we had been on duty for

16:46about 12 hours.

16:47Okay.

16:48And one of the most difficult calls that you don't want to go to if you're a parent

16:51is a child abuse call.

16:52You don't like going to those because you see some of the worst things ever.

16:55And as a parent, you don't want to experience that.

16:58But after working for 12 hours and you get a child abuse call, it very easily can get

17:03into like, why isn't somebody else picking this up?

17:05Why can't somebody?

17:06And I remember that my brain started to go down that path.

17:09And so if we're focused on that whole idea of like what's broken, wrong or missing, like

17:13I want to go home, I'm exhausted, my kids.

17:15And then this type of radio call, I don't want to see this.

17:17It creates an entire experience for you.

17:19You start to feel a certain way in your body.

17:21When you feel that way, I was trying to do things to avoid it, to figure out who else can

17:25take

17:25this on. And actually it was just kind of like a circular way of, of not just only beating

17:30myself up about this scenario, but not looking for the good in it.

17:33And I remember in this specific one, like I had just started to learn about how to lead

17:36myself and how to coach myself.

17:37I started to ask myself a question of like, you know what?

17:39There's a kid out there.

17:40And what if this kid like really needs our help?

17:43What if the fact that me and my partner, we are going to make us the best, we are the

17:47best

17:47people to respond to this because we are fully all in with doing whatever we can to help

17:51this kid who may right now feel like they're in a helpless situation and they need

17:55this level of support.

17:56And I remember just feeling a little bit different inside of my body.

17:59I was like, you know what?

18:00We're going to go over there and we're going to do the best job we can.

18:03And we are going to be like, we are the, we are the two best people to be able to

18:07approach

18:07this situation.

18:08And I remember going there and I remember, unfortunately we had to take two kids from

18:12the, from their parents.

18:13One of them ended up having a broken arm because they didn't do something right.

18:16And then they ended up breaking their arm.

18:18But I remember taking them and taking them back to the station.

18:20We got like some McDonald's on the way back and they were like the happiest thing

18:23ever, which, which, you know, having a broken arm, you necessarily shouldn't be happy.

18:27But I remember at the end of the day when, you know, I think we had to spend like eight

18:30extra hours there.

18:31It was like a 20 hour day, just feeling the pride of like, we did what we were supposed

18:36to do.

18:36I don't know what would have happened if another set of officers had gone there.

18:39Maybe they wouldn't have like come in at the right time.

18:41Maybe they would have, you know, this situation wouldn't have worked out the way it did, but

18:45it did because we showed up the way that we wanted to.

18:48And we were able to help support this, this little girl as best as we possibly could.

18:52And so that situation just in and of itself just taught me about like, okay, we're presented

18:57with things that happen outside of us.

18:59Like, and some of them are not amazing.

19:01Sometimes it's a flat tire on the way to work.

19:02Sometimes it's like somebody does something and it's just kind of like, I don't know,

19:06screws up your whole entire system, but it's already happened.

19:09There's not much that we can do if we're going to sit here and dwell on it.

19:12Instead, just like you're talking about, like related to Tony Robbins is like, how can we

19:15think about this a slightly different way?

19:17Not necessarily a positive.

19:18I'm not going to be like, I can't wait to work eight extra hours today.

19:21That's not necessarily my drive, but I'm like, you know what?

19:23I'm here.

19:24And I decided to work this career because I wanted to make an impact in people's lives.

19:29And when does that happen?

19:30It happens right now.

19:31And the energy that I had like transfer, transformed me in the moment to get me to show up and

19:36to

19:37take that action that I took.

19:38So those are, and what's crazy is like those scenarios, they're presented to us all the time.

19:41Work, business, family.

19:43I love what you're talking about and I'm glad you wrote a book on it because just from

19:49someone listening, I've seen a pattern here, pattern right up, right.

19:52You have trained yourself to literally talk to yourself when there's no one else that can

19:57talk to you.

19:58And you can just go on autopilot and coast through and, and, and go with the flow and wind

20:02up wherever the river takes you.

20:03But that's not, but that's a choice that you're, you are choosing your path as opposed to just

20:08going with the flow.

20:09So, and when you're, we just talked about earlier, when there's stress, when there's

20:13pressure, how your choice is to coach yourself to say, this is one of those moments where

20:18I need to be calm and portray peace and clarity of thought, even if you don't feel like it,

20:24but you've trained yourself when I'm in this situation, here's what I coach myself to say,

20:27Hey, when bad things happen, here's what I've trained myself to coach myself to say when

20:32this happens, that happens, or the other thing happens.

20:35And, and sounds to me like at a certain point in time, there's, you, you cover all the bases

20:40about all the stuff that can go South and you've prepared yourself ahead of time to know how to

20:44handle it so that you don't freak out.

20:46And so that the people on the other end of your interaction are better off because of it.

20:52Yeah.

20:52I love this.

20:54So I know you teach a chain of reality, perspective, emotion, response, and results.

20:59Take us through a real leadership situation from your LAPD career using that framework.

21:03Yeah.

21:03So let me just take you through that, even the scenario that we had right now.

21:06So the reality are, is things that happen outside of us.

21:09We can't control the things that happen outside of us.

21:11We can influence them, but we can't control them.

21:12So in that situation, the reality was we received a radio call.

21:15It was 12 hours after we had been on shift and it was for a child abuse investigation.

21:19Now the reality, I like to think about this.

21:21It's a neutral incident.

21:23Okay.

21:23It's not positive or negative until our brain gets ahold of it.

21:26Our brain determines what that thing outside of us actually means.

21:29So our brain can go down the path of like, oh, I'm just so tired.

21:32Why am I doing this?

21:33Why am I being drug into this?

21:34Like, why is this happening to me?

21:35Why isn't anybody else?

21:36And that goes down one, I'm pointing this direction because it goes down one path that

21:40leads us down to this place of like, whether it's beating ourselves up, getting more frustrated,

21:44getting angry, getting resentful, creating like that, as opposed to the other path that

21:49we can choose, which the same scenario can happen.

21:52We get a child abuse call, it's 12 hours into our shift and we're going to respond over

21:56there.

21:56And the story or perspective that I tell myself is, like you said, this is the moment

22:00that really matters.

22:01This is what I signed up for is to help people, not just when it's convenient, but especially

22:06when it's inconvenient, because that's who I am.

22:08And I'm going to figure this out.

22:09And when you step into that, now you create an entirely different experience.

22:12So this whole idea of the growth model, it applies to everything.

22:16So if you have, I don't know, somebody who makes a mistake at work, you can look at the

22:20reality of like, okay, somebody did this incorrectly.

22:23Which path can you go down?

22:24You can go down the path of like, oh, why do they always do this?

22:27Why aren't they trained?

22:28I've talked to them so many times, all this kind of, but like that doesn't help the situation

22:32just makes you more angry and frustrated.

22:33And you tend to take it out on other people instead of like, you know what?

22:37I've been going through this scenario multiple times.

22:39What is it about how I'm showing up?

22:40This influencing this person to not go down the right path.

22:44Maybe where's like a shortfall that I have actually made in terms of like the teaching

22:48or training, or maybe even the selecting of the right person for this.

22:51Maybe I'm giving this to the wrong person who was never supposed to be that never, never

22:55supposed to be in that role.

22:56Right.

22:57I mean, I kind of tell you how many times that I've worked with probationary officers where

23:00you find out when the stuff hits the fan, who's like not made and cut out for this job

23:05because they're like either, either they're in the car and they're like, I'm sorry, sir.

23:08Like I froze.

23:09But like, it's in those scenarios where you're like, okay, like which path do I want to go

23:13down?

23:13Do I want to choose one that's like more of a destructive path or do I want to choose

23:17one where it's like, Hey, what are we going to do from here?

23:19How, what good is out of this situation?

23:21Right.

23:21How am I going to make, how am I going to overcome this?

23:23And so that I never have to deal with it ever again.

23:25Right.

23:25And so that's like some examples of, of different situations.

23:29And when you look at the things that are happening on the outside, what the reality is that like

23:33wherever your brain goes, when that thing happens, when that person says that thing,

23:37that's where you have what you talked about before you actually have a choice.

23:40Most humans don't think they have a choice.

23:42They're like, my kid said this.

23:44So then I naturally go down this path.

23:45Business happened here.

23:47My brain naturally goes down this path.

23:48Like the, the power is when you, you realize that you actually have a choice.

23:52You can stop, you can take a breath and you can choose on purpose where to focus your

23:56attention on the world.

23:57You don't know what things mean.

24:00Yeah.

24:00Robin talks about, he goes, when it comes to making decisions, people make decisions for one

24:03of two reasons, either to avoid pain or to gain pleasure.

24:07And if you're at a point in a situation where like, oh, I don't want to do this because

24:10it's going to mean pain or I want, I'm going to do this because it means pleasure.

24:13It's just a matter of you have the 100% power to, to interpret what's going on around you

24:17in terms of, and you're saying, Hey, this is what I signed up for.

24:20I signed up to help people.

24:22I signed up to show up a hundred percent.

24:23I'm getting to do what I do best and love to do most.

24:27And you were able to associate more pleasure with this being part of your identity, who you

24:32are and helping people than the pain of, Hey, it's, I've been 12 hours into my

24:36shift and this sucks.

24:37Exactly.

24:38Exactly.

24:38So I didn't mean to interrupt you though.

24:39You're talking, you're, you're, you're teaching reality, perspective, emotion, response, and

24:43results.

24:44Yeah.

24:45So, so in that scenario, when you, when you have the reality and you have that perspective,

24:50maybe the perspective is, I don't want to have to do this.

24:52It makes you feel a way in your body.

24:54Sometimes we, we will tie that into a one word emotion.

24:57Maybe the emotion is angry or frustrated or exhausted.

25:01When you are angry, frustrated, or exhausted, you take the actions in alignment with that

25:05feeling.

25:06So if you're exhausted and you, you, you're going to take actions of somebody who feels

25:11exhausted, which is typically not showing up as your best self.

25:13And when you take those actions, you actually kind of like, we call it a loop where you keep

25:18spinning around in circles and circles and circles.

25:20Sometimes people call this overthinking, but it's like, you, you feel like you're stuck and

25:23you're trapped, right?

25:24You're like, this outside thing happened to me and I can't change it.

25:28And you keep spinning it as opposed to the, the spinning that we talk about, which is like

25:33the positive upward spiral, which is like, this is what I meant to do.

25:36I'm going to go out there and I'm going to, I'm going to show them not just their easy

25:39times during the hard times.

25:40And that makes you feel empowered.

25:42When you feel empowered, you take the actions of somebody who feels empowered.

25:45You show up to that call, you give them the best version of you.

25:47And what do you actually like create?

25:49What are your results is you really are that person that signed up to actually help people.

25:53And now you remember this.

25:55The next time a situation comes up, you go, no, I remember this.

25:58This is when that opportunity steps in, where I get to step in as the best version of me

26:01and I get to show them what I'm really all about.

26:04And that's where that, that positive cycle starts to spin too.

26:07And you really start to show up as the best version of you.

26:09But like you said, because it's joy.

26:10I see that in sports all the time.

26:11You see the quarterback, hey, they're on their own five yard line.

26:15They got to march 95 yards to score a touchdown to, to win the game.

26:19And they got one minute left.

26:20And that guy walks in and says, we got them right where we want them.

26:23Exactly.

26:24We're going to go down there.

26:24We're going to score.

26:25And we're not going to leave any time left on the clock.

26:27Watch this.

26:28And then they go do their thing.

26:29Or Michael Jordan knows, hey, we got one shot left.

26:32Once I hit this thing, we win.

26:33Give me the ball.

26:35Yep.

26:35I was built for this.

26:36Yes.

26:37Perspective.

26:38Big time, big time.

26:39You said something really, really important there.

26:40And I want to make sure people grab onto that.

26:42During the time of the biggest pressure, you know, Michael Jordan said, give me the ball.

26:46So in these moments where you're actually faced with pressure, and it doesn't matter if you're

26:51an LAPD or parenting or whatever, I want you to stop a second and say, give me the ball.

26:56This is what I do.

26:58And I want you to think about how you're going to show up in that scenario.

27:01It's going to be 180 compared to like allowing your brain to control the direction of where

27:05you go.

27:05That's the CEO that walks into the meeting and things are going south and everyone's

27:12all panicking and freaking out.

27:13And that guy's like, I was built for this.

27:15This is going to be an epic turnaround.

27:17They're going to write stories about what we're getting ready to do.

27:21Let's go.

27:22And all of a sudden you watch the temperament of the room shift like that.

27:27And the focus and the brain power that you need the most is there.

27:32I mean, that's like the time when you need the most and some people that can't do that

27:37get the worst out of their team when they could get the best simply by shifting that

27:42energy in the room.

27:44Yep.

27:44Indeed.

27:45Indeed, indeed.

27:45I said, by the way, that's another story to tell yourself or another perspective is like

27:48when I step into the room, I immediately change the energy for good.

27:52Like, just think about that.

27:53Like when I step in the room, I change the energy.

27:56And when you do that, you really do change the energy because it's like one of those things

28:00where, like you said, as the leader, you can step in and you can create that energy, which

28:04has the ripple effect to everybody else, right?

28:06And if you're one of the guys on that football team and the quarterback steps in and says,

28:10we're going to go march this thing down and win it.

28:12Like, you know, I actually am going to tell a story that I've never told on air, but one

28:17of my buddies was, this was Brett Hall when he played for the St. Louis Blues.

28:21I guess there was a game in LA and I think it was, I think it might, might've been Mike

28:26Keenan was the coach and he was notoriously hardcore and he kept telling Brett to come

28:31off the ice.

28:31It was, it was tied up and there was only a couple of minutes left and he kept telling

28:34Hull to come off the ice and Hull wouldn't come off the ice.

28:36He wouldn't come off.

28:37He just didn't listen to his coach.

28:39And he went out and he scored the goal and they went home.

28:42And of course, coach was chewing on him.

28:44Like he goes, coach, this is LA.

28:46I got plans tonight.

28:47I don't have time to be waiting, waiting around for overtime.

28:49I'm just kidding.

28:50I got to go win this thing.

28:51And he did.

28:53But that's his mentality.

28:54He's like, you're not taking me off.

28:55And I'm not saying don't be coachable or try to be a, I'm just saying that Brett

28:59Hull, one of the best hockey players ever.

29:01He's like, no, I got places to be.

29:04I got things to do.

29:05I'm not, I got to go win this.

29:07And his mentality was, give me the, give me the puck.

29:09Yes.

29:10Yes.

29:10And look what he did with it.

29:12He had time to make his, his, his plans after the game without having to have anybody

29:17waiting.

29:17There you go.

29:19Coach is in LA.

29:19I got stuff to do.

29:22But anyway, so back to reality perspective, emotion responses.

29:26So I guess this is the emotion part, correct?

29:28Yeah.

29:29The emotion part.

29:29Like when you feel empowered versus angry, you notice that you're going to take different

29:33actions, right?

29:34So this is when people say that like your belief is what drives your behavior.

29:37It has a lot to do with the perspective of the stories that you're telling yourself.

29:40It creates that emotion and that emotion will get you to take certain actions.

29:43And when you look at the actions you're taking, they're usually in alignment with that story

29:46that you told yourself.

29:47That's why that we call them a spiral.

29:49It's either a positive spiral or the negative downward spiral.

29:52So then response.

29:53Yeah.

29:53The response is how you act in that moment.

29:55So when you feel empowered, you're going to be taking different actions in that scenario

29:59than if you feel angry, right?

30:01I mean, it's just a perfect example, like your kids.

30:03Yeah.

30:03So, so whenever you're, if you have your kids and, and, and they, maybe they do something

30:07where they're running around the store, right?

30:09And you're like trying to like, you're seeing that they're running all around the store.

30:11You're looking at all the parents are looking at you.

30:13You could have the perspective of like, they're not listening to me.

30:16If I was, I was doing this when I was younger, I would have gotten backhanded and it's going

30:20to create an emotion that's going to be maybe anger and how you respond to that moment is

30:23not going to be cool, calm, collected of like, Hey guys, can you come over here?

30:26It's going to be like, get over here, stand right here.

30:28And what happens is, is, is we start to take in those, those responses are those actions

30:33that are in alignment with how we feel in that moment.

30:35And so, but the opposite is true too.

30:37If we're like, we're curious, we're like, you know what?

30:38Like when I was five years old, I probably like, I can understand how a five-year-old would

30:42be distracted.

30:43What is the way that I can actually get them to focus on something so that they do, they do

30:46stand

30:46over here, but I get their attention on something else.

30:48Now you're a little bit more curious and you're going to be taking the actions of somebody

30:51who's curious.

30:51So when you think about like, when people are like, I just want to get myself to do something,

30:55it's not as simple as just telling yourself to do it.

30:57It's thinking through like, okay, what's the perspective or story that I can tell myself

31:01that will get me to feel in a certain way.

31:03And when I feel that way, it'll get me to take that action just by default.

31:06And that, when you look at all of the responses that you actually take, that's what your results

31:10are.

31:10That's what the end is in that scenario.

31:12So I know we've talked about some things that sound great.

31:14And we've mentioned a couple of times that it's much easier said than done, but give

31:19me an example of maybe how you separate what actually happened from the story your brain

31:23immediately creates about what happened, especially when the character's high.

31:26Yeah.

31:27So I, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to share this in terms of like in the beginning

31:30phases of this, you need to find somebody who can spot these things for you because

31:34the way that your brain works is it connects the reality, the things that happen outside

31:38of you with the way that you think about it.

31:40And it makes it feel like it's so real.

31:42So, so back when I was on LAPD, I was about a hundred pounds overweight at one point.

31:47And what I didn't realize is like when I was working, when I had all of these things that

31:51I was doing, I was telling myself a story that I just don't have time.

31:53That was my story.

31:54It's like, I don't have time to exercise.

31:56I don't have time to eat healthy.

31:57I don't have time to prepare my food.

31:59And so if you had asked me, well, what's the reality and what's actually like your perspective

32:03that you're focused on?

32:04I was like, no, the, the it's, I just don't have time.

32:07Like, look at my schedule.

32:08Let me show you my schedule.

32:09And I would show you like all the court qualified, like overtime and doing all that kind of stuff.

32:13And so in that moment, I needed somebody to go, huh?

32:16So here is actually the reality.

32:18The reality is the alarm went off at five o'clock in the morning and you were a little tired,

32:21but the perspective that you were telling yourself is that I don't have enough time.

32:25And so when you can separate those things, then you can see, oh, that part is my thinking.

32:29And this other part is like that outside situation that really, I don't have necessarily control

32:34over.

32:34So in the beginning stages, it's important to have somebody to spot it.

32:37I mean, even for you, for example, because you have like all of this experience in terms

32:41of like hiring and, and, and see work with CEOs and stuff like that.

32:45When you get to see that situation and the CEO comes and goes, Mason, this is what I'm

32:50dealing with.

32:50I have this, this, and this, and this, because you know how to think on a different level,

32:54because obviously you've been through this yourself.

32:56You've experienced it.

32:57You can separate it.

32:58You can go, well, here's the scenario, but I can see, here's the way that you're approaching

33:03it.

33:03Here's your level of thinking.

33:04And unless we actually work on this level of thinking, this scenario is never going

33:08to go away.

33:09And so when you talk about the thing, cause it's, I think it's not just thinking, but

33:12it's feeling like, yeah.

33:13And I know that you're going to be able to relate to this.

33:15I underestimated, man, I learned a lot from army or from being in the army and the training

33:21they gave us.

33:21But I can remember being in field exercises where we were hungry, we were physically exhausted

33:26and we were sleep deprived, all of us.

33:29And I can remember being put in leadership responsibility, given leadership responsibility

33:33and being evaluated.

33:34So there was extra pressure of how we respond to that.

33:37And our instructors created stress and threw in wrenches in the machine so that nothing would

33:41go smoothly just to see how we would react.

33:44And to teach us that we did have control over how we responded to the situations that were

33:50evolving.

33:51And I can remember being with a squad of guys who I liked and trusted, but when you're

33:57sleep deprived, you're exhausted and you're tired, you think these guys are screwing me.

34:00They're not doing what they're supposed to do.

34:03And you started, and in my mind, I know that they're exhausted and they're doing the best

34:08they can and their best isn't great right now, but it's the best they've got.

34:11In my mind, I know that, but I feel like these guys are screwing me.

34:16They're screwing our squad.

34:17They're messing everything up.

34:18And you feel anger and you feel mad.

34:22And it's a real thing.

34:24I know you felt that.

34:25Yes.

34:26But when you've been through the training and you've gotten through it enough times, you

34:29can, if you're talking about coaching yourself, which I know is your specialty, why I'm interested

34:33in having you on, this matters.

34:35It's knowing, recognizing that, hey, I am in this situation and things are not as they

34:39feel.

34:41They are not what they feel.

34:43I've got these filters that are messing with my interpretation of reality of what's going

34:47on.

34:47I need to focus on, as you said earlier, what is the outcome?

34:50What am I trying to accomplish?

34:51And what's the important thing?

34:53And what's the best way for me to handle it?

34:54And just acknowledging that what I feel isn't what's going to guide me.

34:57It's what I know that is.

34:59And that's where that intellectual coaching.

35:02That's why I love this topic.

35:03And I'm glad you wrote a book on this.

35:05Because for people that haven't been there, that might get the chance to be, this will

35:10be invaluable when it happens.

35:12And I'm betting that people haven't been in this situation.

35:15When it happens, they'll be glad that they listened and paid attention and said, wow,

35:19this is what they were talking about.

35:21And I'm going to choose to handle this differently.

35:24I know how I feel, but I'm going to self-coach myself through how to handle this the right

35:28way.

35:29And guess what?

35:30I changed my vocabulary with the guys around me.

35:33It's like, guys, I know that we're all tired.

35:35We're doing our best.

35:36And right now, it doesn't look like our best is good enough.

35:38However, this is our objective.

35:40What are the best ways to accomplish this quickly?

35:44And how do we get that accomplished?

35:45Next thing you know, they're engaged.

35:46We're doing our best and we're moving on.

35:48But it was just, for me, the conversation of being able to acknowledge that we're doing

35:53our best.

35:54We're going to make it better.

35:55What does that look like to you guys?

35:56Here's what I think.

35:57What does it look like to you guys?

35:58What do we do?

35:59Give me your input.

36:00I make a decision.

36:01We go forward.

36:01But going through that, I developed the ability to self-coach and it was not a pleasant way.

36:07I would have much rather just read your book.

36:09But experience is a tough teacher because you don't get the lesson until afterwards.

36:12I'd rather learn vicariously through other folks who have been there, which is why topics

36:15like this and books like yours are of tremendous interest to me.

36:19Thank you for that.

36:19And I just want to call out something like, first off, most people wouldn't have learned

36:23that lesson in those scenarios.

36:24They would have stuck to their original thoughts and feelings like you did.

36:28But think about how often you actually utilize that now, not just on the battlefield, but

36:34also in business and family.

36:37Absolutely.

36:37100%.

36:37You constantly go back to it because it's like, okay, I feel this way, right?

36:41Which means there's a belief that's in there that's like maybe not serving you, right?

36:45And you're like, but I'm choosing this on purpose.

36:47Correct.

36:48That's a powerful leader, Mason.

36:49That's amazing.

36:50Well, I mean, it was funny because I look back when I was even a cadet and I served in

36:56a guard unit while I was in college.

36:58And I, of course, I hung up because when you're a cadet, you're kind of in no man's land.

37:01You're not an officer yet.

37:02You're not enlisted.

37:03So enlisted people don't really like you that much because they know you're going to be

37:06an officer.

37:06The officers don't want anything to do with you yet because you're not an officer yet.

37:09So you're kind of in no man's land.

37:10But I took the time.

37:12I spent time with both, made a conscientious effort.

37:14And I saw, I learned from good leaders what to do and why.

37:18And I learned from bad leaders what not to do and why.

37:21Because I saw how the people reacted and what they said.

37:24And I look back on it and that was one of the best gifts I could have gotten.

37:28I learned way more from Army ROTC than I learned from a lot of my, I'm not going to say

37:32all of them,

37:32but a lot of the classes I took in college because it was so experiential and it was real.

37:38And I can tell you that going back to college after summer, summers in the military, I never

37:43thought of anything stressful in college anymore.

37:45Like people stress now over finals and stuff.

37:47I'm like finals.

37:48What do you mean?

37:48I get to, I get to have a warm meal.

37:51I get to sleep in the bed.

37:52I get to decide when I go to bed.

37:53I get to decide when I get up.

37:55Shoot.

37:55I, I got it made.

37:56And I'm not perspective change.

37:58I'm not, I'm not sleeping in a puddle with the rain or marching through.

38:02You, yeah, it's a different, I'm not hungry.

38:04I'm not tired.

38:05You know, I've got warm food in my stomach.

38:07I'm dry, clean.

38:08I got it made very different perspective.

38:10Yep.

38:11Yep.

38:11I love it.

38:12I love it.

38:12So what is a leadership conversation that you handled earlier in your career that you

38:17would handle very differently today?

38:18And what did you misunderstand at the time?

38:22So I, I want to share like a quick situation that actually happened.

38:26I'm actually glad that I handled it this way.

38:28I don't know how, sometimes you just handle situations from pure luck and then you can go

38:31back and you can look at it and go, wow, how did I handle that?

38:34But we had a situation where in LAPD, they changed our pursuit, pursuit policy.

38:39So it was a really big deal.

38:40So before we could, we could pursue people who were like trying to drive away from us

38:45or leave us based off of infractions.

38:47And infractions are usually like minor citations and things like that.

38:50But what we found is, is working on the street, that's where we'd find a lot of guns, narcotics,

38:54a lot of things that people were doing that were bad.

38:56And they were like committing like a little traffic violation.

38:59They were trying to flee from us and we would catch them and we would arrest them.

39:02But I remember like when the, uh, the city decided that that wasn't going to be something

39:06that we did anymore.

39:06They said, you cannot pursue somebody for a infraction.

39:09And I remember at the time I was like a new Sergeant and the, the, the police officers did

39:15not love this because when your goal, especially when you're younger, you're like, I'm going

39:19to go after the bad guys.

39:20I want to put people in jail who are doing bad things to good people.

39:25You're kind of fueled by that.

39:26And I remember everybody saying like, they're just trying to hold us back.

39:29They're just trying to take this from us.

39:31They're just trying to like make it so that we can't do our job.

39:34Like all of these kinds of like stories and perspectives that we tell.

39:36And I remember thinking that time, and it was a little bit different than what I normally

39:39thought because I was normally in the camp with them, but being a Sergeant now, I'm like,

39:42I can't show up that way anymore.

39:44Right.

39:44So I started to think about like, okay, there has to be a reason why they made this decision.

39:49I don't want to assume what the decision is.

39:51What if I did a little bit of research and found out exactly why they decided to change

39:55this.

39:55And so I spent a little bit of time before roll call, actually looking at things.

39:58And I found that the reason why they did this is because a lot of police officers were

40:01getting hurt.

40:02And it was only for like somebody who didn't have a driver's license.

40:05Like they were going through pursuits.

40:06They were hurting themselves, but also hurting other citizens.

40:09Cause they thought this person was like maybe a hardcore criminal.

40:11And it was just because they were a kid.

40:13They didn't have a driver's license.

40:14Right.

40:15And so when I looked at some of the details, I'm like, okay, there are some times when

40:18we do arrest some really bad criminals this way, but there's a whole lot of times that

40:22we are putting ourselves in harm way and the citizens in hard, hard way.

40:25And like, we got to figure this out.

40:27And is it worth it?

40:28Because like, if somebody is in a car and they get away and maybe they're a bad person,

40:31they're going to be caught at some point.

40:33They're going to be caught at some point, whether it's right now or not.

40:35Do we want to put ourselves in them in danger?

40:37And so I remember having a conversation with them.

40:39I went into roll call.

40:40I'm like, Hey guys, I know this is not like a popular opinion.

40:42And I know that this might be like how you're feeling.

40:45Cause that's how I felt when I first started to think about it too.

40:47And I did a little bit of research and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, but

40:51I just want to share this detail with you.

40:52And so I started to go through some of the details in terms of like why they had decided

40:56to do this.

40:56And I'm like, you know, to be honest, I don't really know why they decided to do this.

41:00I just know when I looked at the information, this is what I found.

41:03And I do want, I need you guys to be safe.

41:05We need you guys to go home to your family every single day.

41:07We want to like have the bad guys in jail, but at the same time, I want to make sure

41:11that you get to go home and spend the rest of your life with your family.

41:13So if they are telling us that based off of the numbers, this is the case.

41:17And I'm like, that's what I have to do is I, my job here is to make sure you get

41:20home

41:20safe.

41:21And, and the way that my roll call responded was way different than the other roll calls

41:25responded because the supervisors that I heard went in there and were like, I know

41:29you guys aren't going to like this, but this is the rule.

41:31You have to follow it.

41:33This is don't ask questions.

41:34Just go out and do it.

41:35And there was some pushback to be honest.

41:37I'm sure there was.

41:38Yeah.

41:38But it, but it's like, it's being able to like, to slow down and say, okay, like, let's

41:43actually figure out what the actual reason is behind this.

41:45Not me to guess.

41:46And then I'm just going to communicate it.

41:48I'm not going to communicate it in a way of like, Hey, they're doing this all for our

41:50good.

41:51Cause I don't really know that.

41:52But what I do know is this is what the number said.

41:54This is what I found out about it.

41:55And I just want to share it with you guys.

41:56You guys get to make the decision, but my goal is to be able to, to get you to go

41:59home safely

42:00every night and whatever I need to do.

42:01There was a guy that I interviewed a month or two ago named Vance Morris.

42:05He's actually on the cover of workforce alchemy magazine this month.

42:08And he worked at Disney.

42:10And one of the things he said, which is applicable here, he said for, to increase engagement,

42:14he said, I would tell people what to do, tell them how to do it and why that's it.

42:18That was a Disney way, what to do, how to do it and why you got, he goes in, if

42:22you can

42:22take the time to give them the why, because you'll increase engagement dramatically.

42:26And that's exactly what you're talking about.

42:27You took the time to give these people the why, because you did the extra work to find out

42:31what was going on behind the decision.

42:33Once they understood that, like this makes total sense to me.

42:36So one last question I want to ask you, you mentioned in your book, something about earning

42:41the right to be a leader of leaders.

42:42What does that mean to you?

42:43And can you point to an experience that shaped that belief?

42:46Yeah.

42:46So there was a lot of, of situations where somebody would tell you like actions for you

42:52to take, whether things to do out in the field or ways to show up, but they would

42:56not follow their own advice.

42:58I see this with a lot of parents too.

42:59I see this even with CEOs where they're like telling people what to do, but they're not

43:02willing to get on the ground floor and do the things they're asking of others.

43:06And so one of the things that I really learned was in order for me to earn the right to

43:11give

43:11people direction and ask them what to do or tell them what to do, I had to be willing

43:14to do it myself.

43:15And so I have to be out there modeling the behavior for them.

43:18So if I'm asking my kids to do something, if I'm asking my team to do something, if I'm

43:21asking my, one of my clients to do something, I have to be willing to do it myself because

43:25then I'm like, I'm doing it myself.

43:27So I'm willing to tell you about it.

43:29If I'm not doing it myself, I'll have to check back in with you in a couple of weeks

43:32because I need to do it first before I'm going to be willing to actually get you to

43:35do that.

43:36So that's what I mean is when you, when you get really good at being able to coach and

43:39lead yourself, that's where you earn the right to lead and coach other people.

43:42But you first have to start by mastering yourself.

43:44Love it.

43:45So if people want to know more about you, your book, the work that you do, what's the

43:49best way for them to connect?

43:50Yeah.

43:50So me and my wife, we do a podcast.

43:52It's called modern leadership coaching, where we talk a lot about these different aspects of being

43:55able to lead yourself effectively, not just when things are going well, but like we said,

44:00when things are not going well.

44:01So that's probably the best place for us to connect.

44:04We also have like a quick five part, like podcast series about how to get started with

44:08leading yourself more effectively.

44:09If you go to modern leadership.us forward slash lead, it's like a free opt-in.

44:14You'll get some podcasts from us, but it really helps you to navigate work, business,

44:18career.

44:18If you have it or any difficult situation that comes up, it gives you a little bit more

44:22clarity on, on how to control some of the things that are going on in your mind.

44:25Are you active on LinkedIn?

44:27I am active on LinkedIn, on Facebook, Instagram, pretty much everywhere, YouTube, but usually

44:31our podcast is the biggest way.

44:32And your book is on Amazon, correct?

44:34It is Mastering Your Life Through Self-Coaching.

44:36Awesome.

44:36Mark, thanks so much for joining us.

44:38It's been an absolute privilege.

44:39Thank you, Mason.

44:40You asked the best questions and really the best follow-up questions.

44:43You're an amazing coach and leader.

44:44I appreciate you.

Stop Overthinking! How to Lead Under Pressure | Marc Hildebrand

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