- 7 hours ago
A debate on India First, anchored by Gaurav Sawant, examined allegations of foreign-funded student protests aiming to destabilise India's economic growth. Congress spokesperson Mohan Kumar Mangalam firmly rejected claims of foreign interference, stating that 'dissent does not mean sedition' and cautioned against leveling unverified accusations without hard investigative evidence from agencies like the ED or NIA. He defended citizens' rights to peacefully demonstrate against electoral irregularities and state crackdowns. BJP national spokesperson Sanju Verma countered by presenting India's macroeconomic metrics, including projected 7% GDP growth, while accusing opposition narratives of weaponising foreign-backed agendas. She emphasised that under Article 19, the right to protest is subject to reasonable restrictions regarding public order, morality, and security personnel safety. The anchor concluded by reiterating that while democracy guarantees every citizen a voice, protests must remain peaceful and institutional disagreements belong within courts of law rather than street clashes.
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00:00Mohan Kumar Mangalam, how would you respond to these accusations
00:03that these are foreign-funded protests to destabilize India's growth story?
00:08IMF is projecting that we'll be growing at 7%,
00:11world's fastest-growing large economy,
00:14and the Congress is being accused of trying to spread anarchy, sir.
00:20First, I'll be very happy if the IMF's growth projections come true.
00:24As far as national interest and national security is concerned,
00:27there isn't any BJP or Congress. We're all united on this.
00:30I just think accusations like this are very, very serious.
00:35We should not make them in any flippant manner.
00:38We made that mistake during the farmers' protests,
00:40or rather I would say the government did,
00:42when they accused a 21-year-old climate activist
00:47and tried to file a charge sheet on her under UAPA.
00:50The court dismissed it, threw it out of hand.
00:52It went all the way when the court actually commented saying
00:55that dissent does not mean sedition.
00:58So we have to be very careful when we use these terms.
01:01There have been cases, I'll also say,
01:04where the Intelligence Bureau, the ED, the NIA
01:08have filed successfully cases against individuals or organizations
01:12and have traced the Hawala money, the bank transactions, etc.,
01:16to establish, without a doubt, how an organization is getting funded.
01:21I think until we are able to see that,
01:24we should not make flippant remarks
01:26and say that, oh, something is foreign funded.
01:29As far as the Fox News...
01:30As far as the Fox News investigative...
01:32Just one second.
01:33Just one second.
01:34I'll finish.
01:35I'll finish really quickly.
01:36As far as the Fox News investigative report is concerned,
01:39Neville Roy Singham has actually been under investigation
01:42by the NIA since 2023.
01:44You will remember there was this news click issue
01:47when his name first came up.
01:49And I'm wondering that if he has been under investigation,
01:52how is it that despite the ED, the Intelligence Bureau,
01:55everybody being on his case,
01:57he's still able to orchestrate something like what we're talking about,
02:00like these student educations.
02:01And I want to understand what we're talking about in terms of...
02:05Dissent is not sedition.
02:08On what basis are senior BJP leaders
02:11making such a statement of an alleged foreign hand of foreign funding?
02:16Very serious charges to level, ma'am.
02:18But is it backed by evidence that can be produced in a court of law?
02:23Okay.
02:24So, Gaurav, now let me spit out some hard facts
02:26because data is the biggest ammunition I have.
02:29Last quarter, India saw a GDP growth of 7.8%.
02:33And today the IMF says India will grow in FY27 at 7%.
02:38Last week, the World Bank raised India's GDP growth forecast
02:41from 6.6% to 7.1%.
02:44For the first time in 35 years,
02:47the Japanese credit rating agency
02:49raised India's long-term outlook
02:52from BBB plus to A minus.
02:54For the first time in 35 years,
02:56we hit the A category.
02:58Last year, Standard & Poor's, the global rating giant,
03:02raised India's local and foreign currency ratings
03:05for the first time from stable to positive.
03:08So the limited point is
03:09that the world is recognizing India's mettle.
03:12And let me tell you,
03:14B, Standard & Poor's, World Bank, Moody's,
03:16ADB, OECD, IMF,
03:18they've all said three things.
03:20A, the reforms juggernaut under the Modi government
03:23has worked wonders.
03:25They've spoken about the insolvency and bankruptcy code.
03:28They've spoken about banking and peers
03:29coming from 12% to 2%.
03:32They've spoken about the fact
03:34that when the world was reeling
03:36under the COVID crisis,
03:38India managed to buck the trend
03:40despite a global black swan event
03:43and is the only economy
03:44which has been growing on the 7% plus trajectory
03:49repeatedly year after year
03:51for the last three years.
03:52And I want to end by saying one thing, Gaurav,
03:54that the manufacturing data came out a few weeks back.
03:58Our manufacturing growth is 9%.
04:01Our consumer durables growth is 11%.
04:04Our capital goods growth is 16.9%.
04:07Our IIP growth is 8%.
04:09So, Sanju Barpa speaks with data.
04:12But by final point,
04:13On the economy,
04:14but the aspect that Mohan Kumar Mangalam raised, ma'am,
04:17was evidence of saying there's foreign funding
04:20or there may be foreign funding in these protests.
04:23Where is the evidence for that, ma'am?
04:25Very quickly.
04:26Gaurav, let's get one thing very clear.
04:28Here, CAA is anti-minorities.
04:32Rafal,
04:35SBI and LIC will go bankrupt
04:37because they have been lending disproportionately to Adani.
04:41These were the three things
04:42that were initially peddled by OCCRP,
04:46which is funded by Souros.
04:48After OCCRP came out with these stories,
04:52malicious lies,
04:53Rahul Gandhi picked it up and said,
04:55Arre,
04:55SBI bankrupt
04:56honne waala hai.
04:57Arre,
04:57Rafal mein bhoat bhoatala hua hai.
05:00Arre,
05:00Pegas se software se merer phone ko tap kiya jara ha hai.
05:03OCCRP
05:04is the biggest example
05:06of how
05:07Rahul Gandhi
05:08recognizes what a foreign outfit says.
05:11OCCRP says
05:12we are a non-profit entity.
05:14They have been saying repeatedly
05:16democracy khatre mein hai in India
05:17under Modi.
05:18What does Rahul Gandhi say?
05:20Oh,
05:20Narendra Modi
05:21under sambhidan
05:22and lokantratou khatre mein hai.
05:23Where do you think
05:24Mohan Kumar Manglami
05:25you want to quickly respond?
05:27Where is the response to this?
05:29I mean,
05:30listen,
05:30and the point,
05:31if I take you to this US report
05:33that talks of
05:34whether it's unrest in France
05:36or the trouble in India
05:38or unrest in India,
05:39it's part of,
05:40as this report points out,
05:42a network activity
05:44of a red-green ecosystem,
05:47French students' actions
05:49and demonstrations in India.
05:51Unrest in France visible already.
05:53Is India the next target?
05:55With some saying
05:55street will decide
05:56there's a systematic effort
05:58to tarnish the image
05:59of the election commission
06:00or the CJI
06:01and,
06:02you know,
06:03this repeated facing off
06:04with the police, sir.
06:07Kaurav,
06:08if there's anyone
06:09who's demeaning India's stature
06:10on the global stage,
06:11it is the home minister
06:12and the manner
06:13in which he's using the police
06:15to brutally crack down
06:16on citizens
06:17who are peacefully protesting.
06:19Number one.
06:20Number two,
06:21I will not insult
06:23the collective
06:24emotional
06:26and perseverance
06:27of students
06:29who came out
06:29to protest
06:30by saying
06:31that they were actually paid
06:32or there was some sort of
06:33logistical support
06:34given to them
06:35which is how they got
06:36to the protest.
06:37I mean,
06:38you shut down Delhi
06:39almost entirely,
06:40you shut down Delhi
06:41almost entirely
06:42on Saturday and Sunday,
06:45no metro,
06:46no bus,
06:46barricades everywhere
06:47and students
06:47still managed
06:48to make it.
06:49And why are we only
06:50talking about it now?
06:51Why don't you go ahead
06:52and say that even
06:52the paper leaks
06:54protest that was managed
06:55by students
06:55or that was
06:56mostly led by students
06:57from the front
06:58is also something
06:59that was
07:00foreign sponsored.
07:01There's nothing much
07:02to what Sanju said.
07:03Sanju spent like
07:0410-15 minutes
07:05talking almost
07:06about the economy
07:07of our country
07:08and there are many things
07:09I can debate on that
07:10but this isn't a debate
07:11on the economy.
07:12This is a debate
07:12on whether we have
07:13substantial evidence
07:15of foreign funding.
07:17No, hear me out.
07:18Hear me out Sanju Verma.
07:19The BJP has been in power
07:21for 12 years
07:22and counting.
07:24Strong Prime Minister,
07:25strong Home Minister,
07:26strong NSA,
07:28strong intelligence network.
07:29Now,
07:30how can a red-green ecosystem
07:33operate in India?
07:34What's the government
07:35doing about this?
07:37You know, Gaurav,
07:38I want to just respond
07:39to first what
07:40the Congress spokesperson said.
07:42I think,
07:44thank God for Narendra Modi,
07:46Article 370,
07:47I did not think
07:47in my lifetime
07:48that would be abrogated.
07:50Today,
07:50Valmi Ki community
07:51has the right to vote,
07:53has the right to stand
07:54for elections
07:54in Jammu Kashmir.
07:56They were treated
07:56like third-class citizens.
07:58Thank God for CAA,
08:00thank God for Narendra Modi.
08:01Thank God that
08:02instant triple talaq
08:03was revoked.
08:04Out of 57 Muslim nations,
08:0672% had revoked
08:08instant triple talaq.
08:09But the Congress
08:10endured that
08:11because they're
08:12driven to appeasement politics.
08:14So I don't think
08:14the BJP needs lessons
08:16in political propriety
08:17or constitutional morality
08:19from a debilitated
08:20Congress,
08:21Dharbari ecosystem.
08:22But my final point,
08:23I always get the question
08:25I ask ma'am.
08:25Effectively,
08:26she's calling me
08:26Dharbari.
08:27I can strike back
08:28in any which way
08:28but I'm not going to.
08:29Please tell her
08:30to mind her language.
08:31Please tell her
08:31to watch her words.
08:33Absolutely.
08:33Request to both,
08:34request to both my guests.
08:36Request to both my guests.
08:38Please,
08:38let's keep this civil.
08:40But respond to the point
08:41on how can a red-green ecosystem
08:44continue to operate
08:45in India.
08:45Go on, ma'am.
08:48Gaurav,
08:48my limited point is this.
08:50Where I agree with Mohan,
08:52despite the fact
08:53that we've had
08:53a very cantankerous debate today,
08:55is that yes,
08:57right to peaceful protest
08:58is the fundamental right
09:00of every citizen
09:01irrespective of political ideology
09:03under Article 19
09:04of the Constitution.
09:06But Gaurav,
09:07that is what
09:07I'm trying to focus on.
09:09The same Article 19
09:10which gives Saurabh Das
09:12the right to protest,
09:13Ashutosh Ranka
09:14the right to protest,
09:15Abhijit Dipya
09:16the right to protest,
09:17Rahul Gandhi
09:18the right to protest,
09:19Priyanka Vanda
09:20the right to protest.
09:21That same Article 19
09:22also says
09:23that the right to protest
09:25is subject
09:26to reasonable restrictions
09:28pertaining to public order,
09:30morality and health.
09:32No fundamental right
09:33is absolute.
09:35No fundamental right
09:36functions in a vacuum.
09:38And do not...
09:39Mohan Kumar Mangalam,
09:42take the specific example.
09:44When we are talking
09:45about institutions
09:46in our country,
09:47if there are issues,
09:48let's say,
09:49with the Chief Election Commissioner,
09:51how can that be addressed?
09:53Through courts of law?
09:55That's the only way.
09:56You may protest
09:57on the streets,
09:57but, you know,
09:59look,
10:00he was in the CEC in 2014
10:02as the BJP points out
10:04when the BJP won in 2014
10:06or in 2019
10:07when the BJP came back
10:08with bigger numbers
10:09or in 2024
10:11where he may have been
10:12in Nirvachan Southern,
10:14but the BJP's numbers
10:15dropped to 240.
10:16Now,
10:17the BJP claims
10:18Congress is creating
10:19ill will
10:20towards democracy
10:22in India
10:23by making all these charges.
10:26Even though
10:26under the same
10:27Nirvachan Southern,
10:28the Congress
10:29has won multiple states
10:30whether it's
10:31Kerala or Karnataka,
10:32Himachal Pradesh
10:33or Telangana
10:34or with coalition partners
10:35in Jharkhand
10:36in Tamil Nadu,
10:36sir.
10:39I've said this before,
10:41but I think it deems
10:42worth repeating.
10:44Most developed countries
10:45which are more economically
10:46developed than us
10:47got the universal
10:49adult franchise
10:50or one man,
10:51one vote,
10:52every right to vote
10:53almost a century
10:53after they were formed.
10:55We actually had it
10:56at birth.
10:57It is something unique
10:58about our country.
10:59And I think
11:00the whole,
11:01the manner in which
11:02the SIF process
11:03has been conducted,
11:04the questions that have been
11:05raised every step of the way,
11:06whether those are about
11:07centralizing the voter list
11:08and not allowing access
11:09to EROs,
11:10whether they are about
11:11mass solutions
11:12that go unanswered.
11:13It will be decided
11:13by courts of law.
11:14One second,
11:15one second,
11:16Gaurav.
11:17Gaurav,
11:18the court itself
11:18cannot impeach
11:19the chief election commissioner.
11:22That is the job
11:23of parliament.
11:23Neither can the street.
11:24But when parliament,
11:25the way parliament itself
11:27is being formed
11:29is questionable
11:30because the fundamental
11:32cornerstone
11:32of our democracy
11:33being the voter list
11:34is being tampered with,
11:36then what option
11:37are you leaving citizens with
11:38but to peacefully protest?
11:40And I want to make
11:41this very clear again.
11:43Peacefully protest
11:44against what they see
11:46and the corrupt
11:47conflict system.
11:49There is absolutely
11:50nothing wrong with that.
11:51It is peaceful.
11:51That is the claim
11:52of one side
11:52versus the claim
11:53of another side.
11:54Sanju Verma wants to respond.
11:56Gaurav,
11:57are journalists
11:57engaging in hand-to-hand combat?
11:59Why are they being
11:59dragged away
12:00forcibly by the police?
12:02On what basis?
12:03When is it that journalists
12:05are actually dragged away?
12:06Think about it.
12:07It's when the police
12:07don't want to see
12:09what they're going to do.
12:11Okay.
12:11Sanju Verma, respond.
12:13Yes.
12:14Gaurav,
12:15you know,
12:15I have always said
12:16that if our youngsters
12:17are being demonized,
12:18then the law of the land
12:20should ensure
12:21that they are properly
12:22shielded, protected
12:24and they are not
12:25dehumanized.
12:26But I also said,
12:28our men and women
12:29in Khakhi,
12:30the ACP of Punjabi
12:32Bagh,
12:32Jay Prakash,
12:33was brutally attacked
12:35by goons
12:36at Jantar Mantar 1.0.
12:38ACP Vivek Bhagat
12:40was dehumanized.
12:41A fake AI video
12:43was circulated
12:44saying he had
12:44molested a young woman.
12:46Okay.
12:47Commissioner of Police
12:48Anil Shukla
12:49was brutally attacked.
12:50I want to ask you
12:51one thing.
12:52Somebody who's
12:5320 years old,
12:5322 years old
12:54has the right
12:55to protest, yes.
12:57But a man in Khakhi
12:58who's 37 years old
12:59or 23 years old,
13:01can't he have
13:01any fundamental right?
13:05It has to be peaceful.
13:07It has to be democratic.
13:09I've run out of time
13:10on this part of the show.
13:11But Sanju Verma
13:12and Mohan Kumar Mangalam,
13:13as always,
13:14many thanks for joining me.
13:15And this is the strength
13:16of the Indian democracy.
13:18Everyone has a voice.
13:20Everyone has a right
13:21to be heard.
13:22But it has to be peaceful.
13:24And any issues
13:25can only be addressed
13:27through courts of law
13:29when two sides
13:30don't agree.
13:31It has to be peaceful.
13:34Streets do not decide
13:35except through their vote.
13:37And that's the story
13:38we'll be tracking very closely.
13:40That is all I have for you
13:41on India First this evening.
13:42Many thanks for watching.