- 44 minutes ago
In a debate on India Today, BJP National Spokesperson Sanju Varma defended the law enforcement actions and restrictions imposed across the national capital amid demonstrations by the Cockroach Janata Party and opposition groups. Addressing anchor Shreya, Varma argued that while Article 19 guarantees the right to assemble and protest, no fundamental right is absolute and remains subject to reasonable restrictions regarding public order. She referenced legal precedent to state that unauthorised agitations become unlawful, alleging that previous demonstrations featured provocative slogans targeting the government and state institutions. Cockroach Janata Party coordinator Shresth Singh Khaira countered the allegations, accusing authorities of high-handedness and suppressing peaceful protesters carrying copies of the Constitution. Meanwhile, Congress spokesperson Nishant Anand condemned police action against citizens and challenged the ruling regime over democratic rights. The discussion examined the constitutional balance between regulating public order and enabling broad shutdowns.
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00:00Joining me this evening, Sanju Verma, BJP National Spokesperson, Shresth Singh Khera, North Zone Coordinator of the Cockroach Janata Party,
00:09and we will also be joined by a Congress spokesperson in a short while.
00:14But to begin the evening with the two of you, thank you for joining us on India Today.
00:19My first question to you, Ms. Verma, my first question is that where do we draw the line here?
00:26That's the biggest question today because we've seen two days of heavy shutdown in the national capital,
00:33heavy barricading, security amped up to not by manifolds, not just double, but by manifolds at this given point.
00:41So where is the line between constitutional regulation and a complete shutdown that we are drawing here?
00:52Shriya, thank you for having me over.
00:53So let me dive straight into the topic of the debate.
00:58First and foremost, everyone keeps harping about Article 19, which gives the right to protest.
01:04Yes, the very article which gives Cockroach Janata Party or the opposition the right to protest also says that no
01:10fundamental right is absolute.
01:12Every fundamental right is subject to reasonable restrictions pertaining to public order, morality and health.
01:18Point number one, point number two, under Article 245, 246, 254, Entry 1, Entry 2, Entry 4, List 1, 7th
01:29Schedule of the Constitution.
01:30It lays down the division of power between the executive, the legislature and the judiciary and clearly says unequivocally that
01:40maintaining law and order is the prerogative and preserve of the central government of the day, the Modi government in
01:48this case.
01:48And my final point is this, we saw what transpired on the 20th of July, it started off as a
01:56peaceful protest, but then it was hijacked by professional andolan GVs.
02:01You tell me Shriya, during a peaceful protest, which is what the Cockroachers call the July 20th Jantar Mantar protest,
02:11slogans like these were raised.
02:13Modi ki tervi par samosay bantenge, Narendra Modi hai hai, Amit Shah hai hai, Sansad Bhavan ko aag laga do,
02:20Samvidhan ko aag laga do, Umar Khalid zinda baad, Sharchil Imam zinda baad.
02:27I will come to you Shresth, I'll come to you Shresth. Yes, yes, Miss Verma, yes, finish your point.
02:32These slogans are out in the public domain, this is not hearsay, this is not a story that I'm concocting
02:39for India today's show.
02:40It is available in the public domain. And tell me one thing, you can have a disagreement, of course, there
02:46are many people who criticize the Modi government.
02:48I don't see everyone or any one of them, by and large, being thrown behind prison bars or being detained
02:56preventively.
02:57But 48 hours back, Joymala Bagchi, the senior most Supreme Court judge, clearly said, I'm quoting him,
03:06If the right to protest is not allowed by way of lawful permission from the authorities, in this case, the
03:16Delhi police,
03:17then the so-called protest becomes unlawful in nature.
03:22This is Joymala Bagchi 48 hours back.
03:24So what was the Modi government supposed to do?
03:27You allow Saurav Das, allow Ashutosh Ranka, allow Abhijit Dipke to do what they did on the 20th of July.
03:35You call the CEC a criminal.
03:37You call Narendra Modi a criminal.
03:40You say Amit Shah is a third power.
03:42You don't have an iota of respect for Gyanish Kumar who holds a constitutional position.
03:47And my final point,
03:49Saurav Das keeps saying,
03:57Do not challenge the might of the Indian state.
04:01And Abhijit Dipke, do not challenge the might of the Indian state.
04:05You are not above the law of the land.
04:07Ms. Barma, let me take your response.
04:09Let me now take your response to Shrest.
04:12And at the same time, viewers, we are also being joined by Nishant Anand, the Congress spokesperson.
04:17Nishant, I'll come to you.
04:18But the question today, this evening, that we are discussing here is with regards to a constitutional line that we
04:25draw between regulating a protest and enabling a complete shutdown of the national capital at this given point.
04:31So yes, Shrest, you had a point to make there with regards to what Ms. Barma has said.
04:36Please go ahead.
04:38Ms. Barma mentioned about morality of protest.
04:41Let me ask Ms. Barma, Amish Shah and whole Home Ministry, is this a morality?
04:49Let me ask Delhi police, is this a morality to drag a female protester in this manner, in this world's
04:58largest democracy?
04:59Is this a morality which BJP have?
05:02Is this a morality of RSS?
05:03Tell me one thing.
05:05Ms. Barma made very serious allegations for slogans in Jantar Mantar.
05:11I was present there.
05:13Mr. Ashutosh, clear Ashutosh Ranka, Sorav Das and whole CJP's leaders clearly mentioned, clearly announced from the stage that there
05:21will be only four slogans in the protest of Jantar Mantar.
05:25One was Bharat Mata Ki Jai, second was Inkalap Jindabad, third was Jai Bheem and fourth was Dharmendra Pradhan Isti
05:33Fado.
05:33They made these announcements multiple times.
05:36Whenever someone speaks something wrong or something which is unlawful, Sorav Das, Ashutosh, they straight away go there and stop
05:46them.
05:46So, what type of allegations you are making?
05:49And we can't take guarantee of everyone.
05:52Maybe RSS goons or some paid personals of BJP might enter there and try to, yeah, goons, yeah, because I
06:02will show pictures.
06:03One more thing, you said about permissions.
06:08Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, the constitution of India, already gave us permission.
06:13If Amit Shah or Mr. Modi will try to kill the democracy, then we have to raise our voice.
06:18We left with no alternative, no option.
06:20See this.
06:21But, but, but.
06:22Just, just, let me complete.
06:24Ms. Sanju, I haven't interrupted you.
06:25Ms. Sanju, I haven't interrupted you.
06:27No, Srinj, this is me.
06:28This is me, Sriya.
06:29This is me, Sriya.
06:30This side.
06:30And I have, I have one question to ask you here.
06:33Srinj, why not follow what the government had, or rather the police had requested you to,
06:38what the, what the law had requested you to do, which is a 10 day prior notice, at least,
06:43and a, perhaps a bigger grounds, because we'd seen the protests in July and the number of
06:48people that it had garnered.
06:50Jantan Manta doesn't hold that kind of capacity.
06:52So why, why not shift the protest in the first place to a different place where people could
06:57actually come in and voice what they had to?
07:01Srinj, Shriya, if, if Delhi police really wants to let protest happen and just want
07:07to maintain law and order, if they can prepare for massive people and deploy thousands of
07:12forces, they are very capable of maintaining law and order.
07:16It's nothing, tough task for them.
07:18They have enough forces in this country.
07:20If they can use their force to just suppress the voice, they can do it constructively to
07:25let the protest happen as well.
07:26And one more thing, why they denied permission, there is some doubt in their honesty as well.
07:33They let RSS Lathi March happen in the country.
07:37In every street of this country, they do Lathi March.
07:40When the, when the CJP's activists or CJP's volunteers hold constitution on Delhi's street,
07:48Delhi police have issues with them.
07:49And why, and one more thing, she made an allegation for unlawful activities and Ashutosh Ran ka jala
07:56raha hai hai hai desh ko and all these type of allegations were already made by all BJP's
08:00spokespersons.
08:01I want to clarify, joe hap loog kate ho ho ki yeh arajakt loog hain.
08:05They are, they are disrupting the city.
08:08Tell me one thing, tell me one thing, just last point.
08:11CJP ka koon sa karekarta apne haath mein hathiar leker aya hai.
08:15Sab yeh samvidhan leker aya hai hai.
08:16Sab mahatma gandhi ki tasweeer leker aya hai.
08:18Aapke loog, RSS ke loog, is desh meh laathiaan leker marge karte hain har saal.
08:22Jishe aap path sanchalan kahte hain.
08:24Okay.
08:25Or yeh kors koon sa hi hai, mujhe yeh samjha hai.
08:26Shesh, you've made your point.
08:28Shesh, you've made your point.
08:29And I'll come back to you.
08:30I'll come back to both of you, Ms. Burma.
08:32I'll have to let Nishant get a word here.
08:34And I'll come back to you, Ms. Burma, and I'll let you respond to what Shaisht has said.
08:38Nishant, your opening remarks on whether this is more than regulating just a protest,
08:44because there's a shutdown.
08:45But at the same time, I'll have to say this, Nishant, that Congress, we've seen for the past
08:48two, three days, over the last week, they had come out to,
08:52you know, lead their own protests at the India bloc parties.
08:55But yesterday, there was a glaring absence of the Congress members from the ground.
08:59While there were other political leaders who were there, and they got detained as well.
09:02But the Congress was nowhere on the ground yesterday.
09:06Hi, good evening.
09:07See, I'll start by saying that Delhi police has turned the entire city into a torture chamber,
09:12where innocent citizens exercising their fundamental rights are being chased, detained, and thrashed.
09:18And all these groups, aligned with the ruling regime, are given a free hand to assault.
09:23We have seen RSS, people who are beating children, media reporters, yesterday.
09:28Under full police protection, they have not been caught.
09:31They have not been detained.
09:32There is no F.I.R. for them.
09:34Modi, Shah are criminal-minded dictators who have decided to go to any lengths,
09:39any lengths to save their regime from collapsing.
09:42Let me say it again.
09:43They know their vote-chori is out in the open, and the public has completely turned against them.
09:48They should know very well that the youth of India are not cowards like them.
09:53No amount of brutality will deter will to resist Siriji.
09:57And the Congress Party has said it clearly, and Rahul Gandhi Ji has stated again today,
10:02we, the people of India, will succeed.
10:04Our Satyagraya will win.
10:06Now, remember one thing you were asking me about yesterday.
10:08Rahul Ji's program was scheduled in Chennai.
10:10From last 29 days back, it was reported.
10:14And on the 12th, we will march towards the Supreme Court.
10:17See, Congress has given a challenge.
10:19Congress challenged the BJP.
10:20Hear me out, Ms. Sanju.
10:22Set aside the two 2024 Lok Sabha and all state elections held after 2024.
10:28Regardless of whether Congress won or lost.
10:30And get the re-elections done on ballot papers.
10:33Stop hiding behind EVMs.
10:35Stop hiding behind both Tony and Janish Kumar.
10:38Okay, let me let Ms. Barma respond to this.
10:41Yes, Ms. Barma, please continue.
10:44So, first and foremost, let me tell the Congress spokesperson,
10:47shame on you for sitting on national television
10:49and calling the duly elected Prime Minister Narendra Modi
10:52a criminal-minded person.
10:54Shame on Prime Minister Modi, shame on Amit Shah for beating the children.
10:58Shame on you guys beating the media reporters.
11:01Shame on you, Lati charge on girls.
11:0312 girls are in ICU today.
11:06Do you have the answer?
11:07We will refrain from the name calling here.
11:10We will refrain from the name calling.
11:11Let Ms. Barma make her point.
11:13Yes, Ms. Barma, please proceed to your point here.
11:15Yes.
11:16Yes.
11:16I need my time.
11:17I did not interject.
11:18Yes, yes, sure.
11:19Nishant, Nishant, let her respond to what you have said.
11:22Yes.
11:24Shriya, I need my time.
11:26And now, let me tell you, Nishant,
11:28you are Bhattameez Behaya Badzuban.
11:31Your leader Rahul Gandhi was like this,
11:34on the back of a female police constable with both his hands,
11:38touching a female police constable inappropriately.
11:43That makes Rahul Gandhi a molester.
11:46Priya Ka Vatra shoved her elbow
11:48right into the breast and stomach of a female police constable.
11:52And this is the same Priyanka Vatra
11:54who went to Hathras saying,
11:58But the same Priyanka Vatra does not have the decency
12:03to behave in public life.
12:05She physically assaulted female police constables.
12:09Rahul Gandhi physically assaulted female police constables.
12:13Congress has lost the political and moral propriety
12:17to lecture on the Indian political landscape.
12:20But my final point, Shriya, is this.
12:22Ms. Burma,
12:23I want to say,
12:25because CJP, you have two people here
12:27from the other side of the aisle.
12:29To the CJP and to Ashutosh Ranka,
12:32who said,
12:33Hey, cockroach toh nuclear war bhi survived kar leke hai,
12:37yeh toh chothi fel raja hai.
12:39Toh Ashutosh Ranka,
12:41please tell me,
12:42that 50 ward elections in Punjab
12:45were cancelled by the Supreme Court.
12:46Talk about vote, Chauri.
12:49We'll come to that.
12:51Okay, now we are completely,
12:52we are very short on time.
12:54So I will come to each of you for a closing remark
12:56and a quick one at that.
12:57You've all made your points
12:58and we've heard all of you.
13:00Ms. Burma,
13:00I will come to you first
13:01and a very short closing comment on the fact
13:04that the Supreme Court themselves
13:05have come out to say
13:07that what the shutdown that Delhi witnessed yesterday
13:10was a bit of an overreach.
13:12The fact that trains were cancelled,
13:14the fact that there was internet shutdown
13:16for four kilometer radius out there.
13:18So even the Supreme Court has questioned
13:20why such high-handness on the Delhi police.
13:23Your response to that, please.
13:25Shriya, the Supreme Court cancelled election
13:28in 50 wards in Punjab.
13:30Ashutosh Ranka's papa,
13:32Saurav Das's papa,
13:34Abhijit Dipke's papa,
13:36Kejriwal, who runs Punjab,
13:37has been,
13:39his bluff has been called out by the Supreme Court.
13:41Why are Saurav Das, Ranka and Dipke
13:43not talking about the election
13:45and Vokshori in Punjab?
13:47Right, right, right.
13:50Ma'am, we are completely out of time.
13:52Let me take that to Shresh.
13:53One response from you on
13:56why is it that the CJP spokesperson
13:58came out to say today
13:59that, you know,
14:01that Abhijit was not allowed
14:03to speak to his family
14:04when they actually were.
14:06The Delhi police actually came out
14:07with that video
14:08that he was allowed to speak to the family
14:09but he refused to
14:10at that given point.
14:11These are very big allegations
14:13that will rile people up further.
14:15So why are we resorting to
14:17narrative building tactics like that?
14:19It's not a narrative building tactic.
14:21Do you believe in honesty of Delhi police?
14:23We saw the video.
14:24Do you really believe?
14:25We saw the video.
14:28Sorry,
14:30you just told about the video of Abhijit Dipke?
14:32Yes,
14:33with the police
14:33when he was informed
14:34about his grandmother passing away.
14:37I haven't seen that video till now
14:39because I was busy in debate.
14:41So if I will see that video
14:42then only I will be able to answer that.
14:43But I want to answer
14:44Ms. Verma's comment
14:46what she made on CJP
14:47and Ashutosh Ranka.
14:49What the skill,
14:50this is the greatest skill of BJP.
14:53They go in what a boundary
14:57if they do something wrong
14:58and people...
15:03Right,
15:03Shresth,
15:04we've lost you there.
15:05But yes,
15:05viewers,
15:06we're completely out of time here.
15:08It's a heated up debate
15:09and there are several questions mounting.
15:10Nishant,
15:11Sanju,
15:11Verma
15:12and Shresth Singh Khera,
15:14thank you for joining us on India Today.
15:15But yes,
15:16viewers,
15:16this is dharna,
15:17detentions and drama
15:19that Delhi has been witnessing
15:20for the past two days.
15:21And that's the conversation
15:22we took up with each of those folks.
15:24First of all,
15:25on that note,
15:25we're wrapping up
15:26this segment right here
15:27on India Today.
15:28Thank you for tuning in.