- 19 minutes ago
A panel discussion examines the government's decision to denotify Jantar Mantar as a designated protest site in New Delhi. Panellists debate whether moving demonstrators to alternative venues such as Ramlila Maidan or Burari represents an attempt to suppress dissent or a necessary administrative measure to safeguard public order and minimise severe traffic disruption for daily commuters. The conversation highlights historical precedents, including the earlier shift away from the Boat Club, the constitutional protections surrounding peaceful assembly, and global examples of public protest spaces in major democracies. Key participants argue that protest venues must remain accessible and visible to those in power, noting that moving assemblies away from central corridors weakens citizens' ability to demand accountability. 'The idea of protest in a country like India will remain,' notes a participant during the debate, emphasising that while violence is unacceptable, legitimate demonstrations must not be driven far away.
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00:00Jantar Mantar as a protest site denotified. Is this crushing dissent or an act to restore law and order, public
00:08order?
00:09We're going to throw it open and an all-woman panel, which we're very happy, has been broken by one
00:14man, Rajdeep Sardisai.
00:16So let's begin with you, Rajdeep.
00:17Where is my friend Gaurav Sawant? I mean, I'm feeling completely lost.
00:21I thought Democratic Newsroom, you know, was a big boss-like situation, Gaurav Sawant versus Rajdeep Sardisai.
00:27I mean, what, you know, where's the, where's the debate?
00:31Achcha, so what is your point of view?
00:33You're asking me Jantar Mantar denotified, right?
00:36Is it?
00:36Is it?
00:37Crushing dissent?
00:38Crushing dissent or upholding law and order? It's not the first time it has happened.
00:42Boat club used to once be a protest site.
00:44Look, it was denotified.
00:45Look, ever since I've been in Delhi, since the early 90s, Jantar Mantar was the notified protest site.
00:52And my own feeling is that it was in some ways ideally located because in a subcontinental size country, people
01:03come from all over with protests.
01:05You don't, you know, you're only seeing this Kokrut Janata party and what's happening at the moment.
01:09Over the years, I've seen individuals coming from different parts of the country, farmers who've been suffering drought.
01:15They'll come there in small groups.
01:16Sometimes it's close to parliament.
01:18It gives them a sense that they have access to power.
01:21It almost seems as if parliament is a gated community.
01:24You know, all the gated communities you live in, you don't want people to enter your gates.
01:29Who are these people, citizens of India who are going to come and challenge us?
01:34So where are you pushing them?
01:3523 kilometers away to Burari, to the CBD grounds where I saw part of it is a garbage dump,
01:41to Ramlila ground where only three days are available between now and the end of the year.
01:45Otherwise, it's booked.
01:47Boss, you know, my problem is you can change the geography of the protests.
01:51The idea of protests in a country like India will remain.
01:55This is the country, my dear, of Mahatma Gandhi and Satyagraha.
01:59This is the country where we value the right to protest.
02:02We are not China.
02:03Where you can, you know, tell the people, aray, yaha mat ao, yeh VVIP area hai.
02:08As it is, every area is designated as VVIP in this country.
02:11Please denotify some of the VVIP areas, Preeti Chaudhary.
02:14This Lattian Delhi ko denotify karo.
02:17Pahle woh karo.
02:18Jantar Mantar is for the people, of the people, by the people.
02:21I wish, I wish I had it, you know, in my capacity.
02:25No, no, so I am troubled.
02:26I am troubled.
02:27I believe, yes, protests should be peaceful.
02:31I agree entirely.
02:32You cannot, no one has the right to take law into their own hands.
02:35No one has the right to commit an act of violence in the name of protests.
02:39Unacceptable.
02:40But using that to drive people away, 23 kilometers away.
02:44Rajdi, the argument is, and I am going to bring in Pooja and then we will go across the panel
02:48here.
02:49The argument is from a lot of people that A, Jantar Mantar is a small space.
02:53Number two, you know, exit and the entry can be really cumbersome.
02:59We saw that during the protests where you yourself had to jump over God knows, you know, how many barricades
03:04to get there.
03:05It's difficult is what they say.
03:06Let's say Ramlila Maidan.
03:08Ramlila Maidan is booked out.
03:09Ramlila Maidan is one and a half kilometers from central Delhi.
03:12This was also the place where Anna Andolan happened.
03:15The Ramlila Maidan.
03:15But it is booked out.
03:17Yeah, but it's booked out by private players.
03:20But if you have notified it now as a protest site, then you can cancel all the other bookings and
03:27say this is now a protest site.
03:29Please do it.
03:30Do you think that's okay?
03:31Please, look.
03:31Or are you struck that it has to be Jantar Mantar?
03:34No, I never said that.
03:35You never said that.
03:35I never said that.
03:36I said if you are able to open up Ramlila Maidan, it is an option, no doubt about it.
03:40But are you willing to open it up fully or are you going to give it for some private celebrations
03:45and only allow protests to be the exception?
03:48You can't have it at private celebrations anymore because now it is a notified protest site.
03:53How can you have private events?
03:55As of now, till the end of December, it's booked up.
03:57That's all I know.
03:58Pooja, what's your take?
03:59You've been here since the 90s, you said.
04:01Modi government has also been here for over 10 years.
04:04Why has the decision been taken now, in the third term?
04:08Look at the confrontation that happened this time and let's not give a free run to the protesters.
04:12There was massive stone pelting and brutality done on both sides.
04:16And that is why perhaps, and not just that, look at what Central Delhi became.
04:20I had people calling me up, messaging.
04:22They were fed up.
04:23They wanted to know what kind of protest is happening.
04:25I would know.
04:26Both sides will have to be careful.
04:28They were not.
04:29And therefore, perhaps a decision was taken that because of this protest at Jantar Mantar,
04:33whole Central Delhi, which intersects the national capital and other cities also, was suffering.
04:38You cannot, it's happened like it happened in the found protest.
04:40Allow me to ask you a counter.
04:42Then that is the reason why protests happen.
04:44Protests are meant to inconvenience you.
04:46Protests are meant to occupy public space.
04:48Why should a general public suffer?
04:50No, meant to be seen.
04:50No, meant to be seen, but why should general public people who are simple people,
04:55The core of protest has been to occupy public space.
04:59The core of protest is to occupy public space.
05:03You cannot become an agitator.
05:04What is the fault of the general public who are paying taxes,
05:07want to just return home safely, are struck in that mess and are also getting injured.
05:12So you put clear rules and restrictions.
05:14Second point.
05:15You put clear rules and restrictions.
05:17And majority of the videos, majority of the videos, the violence was not from the protesters.
05:22The police personnel were almost lynched.
05:24In the last weekend, I have seen the weekend videos.
05:27Please show me how many videos are there of the police being covered and how many of the protests.
05:31But they cannot have how many were killed.
05:33And second point.
05:35Remember, Arvind Kejriwal had that long, and Anna Hazare had a long India against protest at Ramlila Maidan.
05:41And they were allowed to.
05:42Here also they were given an option.
05:44The CJP denied according to our information.
05:47They wanted Jantar Mantar.
05:48Why couldn't you go to a Ramlila Maidan, have a bigger protest, continue for days, media would be there.
05:54No inconvenience to general public.
05:54Ramlila Maidan is booked out.
05:56That was the reason given.
05:58And can I just jump in here?
05:59Protest in India is not dependent on permission of the government per se.
06:05Yes, the government can...
06:07Police?
06:07Police?
06:07Police?
06:08No, no, no.
06:08Puja, can I just...
06:09Not the government.
06:10Police, Puja, can I please...
06:12A citizen of India has the right to protest, whether at a notified site, a non-notified site,
06:18or whether they want to sit outside my house and shout for their rights.
06:23That is a citizen of India's rights.
06:26Where does the police's regulation come in?
06:28That there should not be violation of law and order.
06:31People should not be unduly influenced.
06:34Unduly impacted.
06:35Impacted.
06:36And please remember, whether it was the CAA protest of 2019-20,
06:40or it was the earlier farmer protest, or it was even earlier the Anna Arndolan,
06:48whatever else have you.
06:50Law clearly says people have the right to protest.
06:54The reason why we brought in restrictions and regulations is because citizens of India
06:59said ki hame problem ho ra hai.
07:00Therefore, court said, you know what, have some sort of reasonable restriction.
07:04But reasonable restriction cannot deny the right to protest to the citizen of India.
07:09And let me just, if I can get 10 more seconds.
07:12Please go ahead.
07:12Giving somebody, telling somebody, Ramrila Maidan chale jau, is a cop-out.
07:17Because that is the kind, this entry into that space is not as easy as Jantar Mantar 1.
07:25You can, it's a larger ground.
07:27You can stand there and shout for, at the top of your lungs,
07:30the people, the citizens of India, the corridors of power will not hear you.
07:34They heard Anna.
07:35They heard Anna.
07:36Of course they hear.
07:37They heard Anna because it's your numbers that showed up.
07:39They heard Anna from there.
07:40And Anna started at Jantar Mantar.
07:42I want to listen to you also.
07:43Anna started out at Jantar Mantar.
07:45I'm the moderator.
07:46I remember being at Jantar Mantar.
07:48Okay, Anisha, one second.
07:50Allow me to, allow me to bring in Sonal.
07:53Sonal has done a very informative piece yesterday
07:55or where she's compared protests across the world and Sonal in her show and how it's meant
08:02to be in a place where the government can see it, look at it and be impacted by it.
08:08Correct, Sonal?
08:09Yeah.
08:09So, I think everybody's point of view is right and it's becoming about CJP.
08:13It's not.
08:13Let's be very clear.
08:14It is, the government is not doing anybody a favor but allowing you to protest.
08:19It is, the constitution gives you the right to protest.
08:22Delhi police does not give you the right to protest.
08:24Protest by its very definition means a testimony of being able to speak about it,
08:30being able to be present there.
08:32And protest is not the one that just should be heard, should be seen.
08:36In democracy, in other parts of the world, because Rajdeep has not seen that clip, I shall tell it.
08:45Now, I'm moderating, that's why.
08:46I've taken over.
08:47Let's start with US.
08:49Okay, White House.
08:50Right opposite White House, there is a square where people protest.
08:54Right opposite, you know, in London and primarily in the Parliament square, people protest.
08:59In Paris, there is a Republic where people protest.
09:02In Tel Aviv, for God's sake, there is a democracy square.
09:06In Moscow, there is a Boltyana square.
09:09In India, what do you have?
09:11You have Burari.
09:12No, but the size of India.
09:13No, but you can't compare.
09:15One minute.
09:16One minute.
09:16You have Burari.
09:17You can't compare India with the size.
09:19Look at the size of Delhi.
09:22Can you compare it with the...
09:24Sir, I'll tell you.
09:26In the heart of Delhi, what do you do?
09:27I want to finish.
09:28I want to finish.
09:29No, please, let her finish.
09:30I want to finish.
09:31All of us at some point in our career have been to Jantar Mantar.
09:34Yes.
09:34You are absolutely right, Rajdeep.
09:35When you say it is not about...
09:37I don't think it matters to Kokoro Chanta Party.
09:40They have hashtag.
09:41They have lawyers.
09:41They have social media by their side.
09:43They will do a protest wherever they want.
09:45Now, they are doing to CP.
09:46Now, they are going to CP for...
09:48I don't know what intervention.
09:50Delhi police has decided that CP is a better side than Jantar Mantar.
09:52Please tell me how that really works.
09:53Delhi police hasn't decided it.
09:54They have decided it.
09:55No, they have...
09:56They went to high court.
09:57They went to high court.
09:59And then they got permission.
10:00Now, how is CP better than Jantar Mantar?
10:02Tell me that.
10:02But I want to tell you, if you have been to Jantar Mantar, you will realize who that place is
10:07for.
10:08It is for people who are crowdfunding for a medical examination.
10:11It is for farmers who do not have hashtags.
10:14It is for somebody asking for pension.
10:15And hoping that a reporter will take your bite.
10:19There are party offices.
10:22Somebody will listen.
10:24Jantar Mantar is a social media of people who do not have hashtags.
10:28Very good point.
10:28And you don't.
10:29One minute.
10:29And you cannot deny that.
10:32I must hear, Jessie.
10:33No, no.
10:33One minute.
10:34No, no.
10:34One minute.
10:34There is a Gen Z person here with these protests.
10:37Part of the problem, Jessica, is you are silent here.
10:39But Gen Z is very noisy on the street.
10:41And it almost seems as if the governments are afraid of what Gen Z will do next.
10:46How do you see it?
10:47Do you believe that there should be these designated protest sites?
10:50Do you believe as Preeti seemed to suggest that, you know...
10:53No, I was playing the devil's advocate.
10:54I was the moderator.
10:55Now you have taken over.
10:56Okay.
10:57Then I will get your viewpoint.
10:58But what do you think?
10:59Do you think that the right to protest should be unfettered?
11:02Or do you think that the clear restriction should be there?
11:04You mentioned about my generation.
11:06And I think my generation also for the longest time has known only Jantar Mantar as a protest site.
11:11But with now having that being denotified, I also think that Jantar Mantar has somewhat become a sentiment.
11:18In the sense that no matter wherever you want to protest, that is a name that gets echoed.
11:24So now, again, bringing in a Gen Z perspective, online you can see people now making games where they are
11:30saying Jantar Mantar Chalo,
11:31which is an online game.
11:32And you have to basically, you know, play it on your keyboard.
11:35And Neha Bora is like passing all these hurdles to reach Jantar Mantar.
11:38So now it's been gamified also.
11:40So Jantar Mantar is no longer, I would say, just restricted in that physical space.
11:45It's also a sentiment which is now echoed by this generation.
11:49Do you agree with that?
11:50Do you believe that's the way it should be seen?
11:52Because there was a boat, you know, there was no Jantar Mantar in the 1980s.
11:55There was boat club.
11:56There was boat club.
11:56Right?
11:57So I mean, you know, that was before your generation.
11:59I think the space doesn't really matter as much.
12:00So who knows, 10 years later, Ram Leela will become what Jantar Mantar was today.
12:04Do you believe Jantar Mantar is a sentiment?
12:07It is a sentiment, definitely.
12:08Do you believe therefore reclaiming Jantar Mantar is more than just about, it's become symbolic, it's an idea?
12:14It could be symbolic, but I, again, I don't think it is just limited to that physical space.
12:19Now, I think now the protests have reached a point where anybody could sit anywhere and do a protest.
12:24We are having these protests where they're marching from INA.
12:26So it's no longer just about Jantar Mantar.
12:29That has become something which has been denotified.
12:31So it's becoming part of the conversation.
12:33So it's becoming part of the conversation.