00:00Joining me this evening is Ms. Sushmita Dev, BJP Rajya Sabha MP.
00:04Ms. Dev, thank you for joining me.
00:07My first question, Ms. Dev, we'll get to the detention of Imran Khan,
00:10but my first question stems from,
00:13for a party that takes immense pride in Harghar Tiranga,
00:16is the government going to clamp down on the CJP's call
00:21of Leherao Tiranga at Cannot Place tomorrow?
00:28Ms. Dev, you see, Prime Minister Modi's program,
00:32which he gives to the party for Harghar Tiranga,
00:35you know, it's quite significant and it has a huge impact on the ground.
00:40But when it comes to the 16th October thing,
00:43I think for your viewers, the record has to be set straight
00:48that no one was arrested for showing the Tiranga.
00:51They were arrested because they violated a government order
00:56which was made pursuant to a Supreme Court judgment
01:00that that area, Chantar Mantar or whatever,
01:03could not be used, you know, for protest.
01:06So it's a complete misrepresentation of facts
01:10to say that two protesters were arrested
01:13because they had the Tiranga in their hand.
01:15I think we need to set that record straight first.
01:19Ms. Dev, the fact is, the Kokro Janata Party members said
01:23that they were not going there to protest,
01:25they were just unfurling the Tiranga and then they were arrested.
01:28But the question is not just so much about Jantar Mantar,
01:30it's about the government clamping down from, you know,
01:34a clamp down to a crack down of sorts.
01:36And we saw that on the 10th of October.
01:38You say the government is not trying to clamp down on dissent,
01:41but how do you explain, you know, scores of trains,
01:4557 the last time on the 10th of October,
01:48coming in from various parts of the country
01:49to the national capital cancelled.
01:51Over 45 metro stations shut down.
01:54Over 33,000 police personnel,
01:57including the Border Security Force,
02:00manning the borders of Delhi with other states.
02:02All of this, somewhere down the line,
02:04Ms. Dev smacks off,
02:06at least converting Delhi into a police state.
02:11There was a protest in Maharashtra.
02:14It was peaceful.
02:15No one did anything.
02:16And the protesters came out to say that,
02:19oh, we thank the Maharashtra police.
02:21So what happens on the spot,
02:24why they are arresting people
02:25or why they feel the need to clamp down on people,
02:28you will have to, it's a question of fact.
02:31So one side will say it's unjustified.
02:34We were not doing anything.
02:35But I'm sure the Delhi police must have had reasons.
02:38So, for instance, what happened in July
02:41is now a subject matter of investigation.
02:44So to put out just one narrative,
02:47to say, look, no one's being allowed to protest.
02:49Today, you know, the India Alliance
02:51walked right up to the Supreme Court.
02:55They walked with thousands of people
02:57as per their own narrative.
02:59That's also a reality.
03:00You can't undermine what happened then.
03:03No one's praising the Delhi police for that.
03:05No one's praising the Home Ministry for that.
03:08So you can't have it, you know, your way all the time.
03:13Ms. Deeb, you speak of Maharashtra, and you're right.
03:16Then, despite no permission being granted to the CJP,
03:19they were allowed to protest in Mumbai.
03:21But what happened on October 10th was completely different.
03:24And let's go back to what happened on October 10th in Mumbai.
03:26An actor, Imran Khan, comes out to protest.
03:30Then, he's now duly served a notice,
03:32because he's a U.S. citizen, he is an OCI card holder.
03:35He's now served a notice that he will have to leave the country
03:39by the 28th of October.
03:41If this is not a chilling effect,
03:43and clubbed with the other measures taken by the government,
03:47then what is man?
03:51Preeti, you can pick specific cases and keep asking me.
03:55I'm not an investigating agency,
03:57and neither am I privy to the facts
03:59on the basis of which the police is taking these actions.
04:02But I think it's time that we ask ourselves a simple question,
04:07that yes, in a democracy, protest has to be allowed.
04:10You cannot say no to that.
04:12It's everybody's democratic right.
04:14But I was that day in Parliament in July.
04:17And believe me, if the police had not acted,
04:20doesn't matter whether it was reasonable force or no,
04:23that the investigating agency will decide,
04:25the investigations will reveal.
04:26But as a nation, we have to decide that,
04:29are we going to allow protesters to enter our parliaments
04:33to create unrest in the capital?
04:35There has to be a line somewhere.
04:37So to put out that narrative repeatedly,
04:40to keep hammering, saying,
04:42why are you all cracking down on protesters?
04:44Why are you all cracking down on protesters?
04:46Now, I can ask a question that when they first started
04:49their protest in July in Jantar Mantar,
04:51they were allowed to sit for several days without permission.
04:54That's also a reality.
04:56Delhi police didn't stop them,
04:58didn't give them permission, yet they came.
05:00They were on a fast.
05:02You know, Wang Chuk was there.
05:03There was no police action till things went out of hand.
05:06So, you know, you can't always keep portraying
05:10one side of the story.
05:13There are also instances where they have been shown indulgence
05:16because it's a democracy.
05:18But it's a very fine line when a democratic right
05:21is exercised in a way where it causes unrest.
05:24How would it have looked if 500 or 5,000 people
05:28barged into the parliament?
05:30Then I'm sure the same people who are asking
05:32for Amit Shah's designation then would be saying,
05:35now, Mr. Amit Shah, Home Minister, you resigned.
05:37How could you let this happen?
05:39So that you have to balance things.
05:41It can't be one-sided in the name of democracy.
05:45Ma'am, you speak of one instance,
05:46but the issue where Imran Khan is concerned,
05:48he is clearly not using any force on the police.
05:51He was dragged where he was peacefully protesting
05:54at August Karanthi Maidan in Mumbai.
05:59And today he's been served a notice
06:00which says you have to leave the country.
06:02So, you know, one has to ask on why that has happened.
06:07But I want to ask you one question
06:08because this is something that your party
06:10in the last couple of days has bolstered on,
06:12something that the Home Minister of the country
06:13also spoke of, where you believe.
06:16And there are people today who are also talking about
06:18Imran Khan, U.S. citizen, foreign hand, foreign funding.
06:22Do you also believe in the foreign funding theory
06:24that the government is attributing to the protest?
06:29Yes, we believe that.
06:31We believe that.
06:32We believe in one thing.
06:34Today, Preeti, you can criticize the government of the day.
06:37You can criticize the policies of the Prime Minister of India.
06:40But I take it, Amrish, to the fact that the leader of opposition
06:44on the pretext of doing a talk in some university,
06:47which is a backdoor holiday for him,
06:49goes there to trash the government.
06:51I have gone as an opposition MP to the United Nations.
06:55But when we go in front of the United Nations Secretary-General,
06:58we speak in one voice.
07:00We highlight what India has done.
07:03Today, can you give me any government in the world
07:06whose policies you can't criticize?
07:09Of course you can.
07:10No one is perfect.
07:11But there's a certain decanum.
07:13It's never happened in the past.
07:15I mean, if you want to encourage politics like this,
07:18politics of the opposition like this,
07:20then somewhere you'll have to agree
07:21that the nation's image stands to lose.
07:25I mean, look at the international media,
07:27what they're covering.
07:28International media is not talking about the by-elections
07:31where neither Mamata Baniji goes to campaign,
07:34nor Rahul Gandhi goes to campaign,
07:35nor Priyanka Gandhi goes to campaign.
07:37They don't have any booth committees.
07:39They don't have any organization on the ground.
07:41They have no narrative for the people.
07:43But what the international media is covering is
07:45that, look, the students are protesting in India.
07:48So, there are two sides to that story.
07:51So, if you believe,
07:52if you believe that people of India are with you,
07:55if you believe that people of India will vote for you,
07:58then come fight us in the booth.
08:01Ms. Dev, thank you for taking the time out and joining me.
Comments