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00:03what's up everybody welcome back to another edition of straight out of fleshing it's your
00:07guys dexter henry tyler ward aka my guy wardy yes he's still my guy uh even though i try to
00:13put
00:13other people on him at times but i'm not going to do that today what do you have hot dex
00:17love it
00:18hey i'm just making sure you know it's all love brother that's all i appreciate that uh how you
00:23doing today man i'm doing well dex uh nba season has officially started i know that you were doing
00:28a great job covering banner night last night uh unfortunate nicks lost but nonetheless excited
00:33to see the nba season around and you know excited as the new york mets get closer to their offseason
00:38really beginning here what playoffs now getting oh so close to reaching its end for baseball so
00:43we got a lot to get into today as we're continuing our position player discussion going from talking
00:49about you know in our past episode first base and what the mets may do there to now talking about
00:54second base so dex without further ado let's get right into this one yeah man second base
01:01we talked about first base and how rough it was we're not gonna lie to the people like we never
01:06do
01:07uh second base not so good and i'm i'm not even gonna see i could have done this i just
01:12thought
01:12about it i was gonna put this on wardy i'm not going to do it marcus simian nobody's boy okay
01:19we're
01:19not we're not saying this about marcus simian right now i always like to start this and look at how
01:24the
01:24the mets got here because the mets you know in the trade for marcus simian getting here you thought
01:29you're getting a guy who provides some stability at second base provide some veteran leadership in
01:34the clubhouse you thought you'd get all that however when you look at marcus simian's numbers
01:40and i was talking to wardy about this before we started recording and you just look back at the
01:44final numbers you're like yikes the mets right side of the infield rough times you know we talked
01:50about first base and where they were in f4 met second base f4 minus 0.7 guys you guess what
02:00that
02:00is wardy worst in the majors worst wow color more shock decks you calling me you mean to tell me
02:09that
02:09an area that david sterns and the mets addressed thinking in confidence that oh we're gonna really
02:15be upgrading you know maybe where we were lacking a year prior no it's worse whether it's first base
02:21defense or now second base defense i'm laughing because it just that's the only way to kind of
02:26cope with it to stop from crying that's that's that's the only way just just just yeah that's all i
02:32got for
02:32you it's rough the you know is ops 620 it's not going to get it done hit 215 at the
02:39plate last year
02:40right outs above average which is another just to get back to another area with the what the
02:46mets tried to show up minus nine folks oh god minus nine here's the don't forget he's still
02:54just under 50 million dollars that's what i was getting to my friend yeah that is the big number
02:59right yeah you've talked about i can give you all that stuff and wardy just hit what matters
03:04owed 46 million dollars over the next two seasons okay this is where the mets are this is the reality
03:14of it just gave you all the numbers i could say what went wrong here but is all of this
03:20just
03:20marcus simian is a guy who was a star a clubhouse leader and the skills have just declined the cliff
03:27in life has come real fast for marcus simian and the mets is that where you just look at where
03:33the
03:33mets are second base wise wardy yeah it's as simple as that listen marcus simian is not getting
03:39any younger he's entering his age 36 season or so um none of this is shocking to see the continued
03:44decline in his offensive output because we've seen that the previous two years or so during his time
03:50with the texas raiders you know ever since they won the world series in 2023 he was pretty much on
03:55a
03:55downward spiral with the bat and it's one thing to lose the bat as you get older as a veteran
03:59infielder
04:00that of course can happen from time to time for many players but it's the defense which is the
04:05more alarming aspect for someone who again was known as a defensive dynamo for years
04:09throughout the peak in his career so again when we look at how we got here with the contract swap
04:14from
04:14memo to simian that being that along with as we've talked about extensively here in our previous
04:20straight out flushing podcast how the mets are destined to go in a different direction than simian
04:24next year whether that means outright dfaing him parting ways eating that salary or figuring out a way to
04:30utilize him off the bench in a more limited role which i'm still not as in favor of as maybe
04:34i was
04:35a couple months ago that we've talked about since uh for the mets here as david stern's put it point
04:40blank uh we're leaving second base open uh given the uncertainty of the marcus simians and the brett
04:46beatys of the world even though baby had a strong second half decks uh when asked let's not forget this
04:51and that same presser from media i'm blanking as to who exactly asked this but it was a good question
04:56a remark rather which is that well you do remember that at this time last year you know a year
05:01ago
05:01we were also yet again raving about brett beatty having a very strong second half and what did that
05:07amount to you know still lack of consistency so david did reiterate by saying that yes you know it's not
05:13a guarantee there is a level of risk there with buying into it uh but he's still encouraged nonetheless
05:19and baity's output so going back to you here um what are your thoughts on baity uh his role with
05:26the new york mets at the second base position and ultimately what are you looking for the new york
05:31mets to do here as they look to fine-tune some things in their infield so as far as baity
05:36goes
05:37warty i look at this for second base no differently than last week when we talked about first base right
05:42i think we're looking at baity as a guy who's best suited for this team
05:46as a utility infielder a jack of all trades you can move in multiple positions i don't think he
05:51has shown that he can be the answer for sure in any position now it's not about defense for him
05:56in
05:56second base for me it's about the bat the bat hasn't shown up consistently and i'm not going to
06:00get excited about two recent you know in the last two seasons nice closes you need to see the more
06:07consistency from bet bait brett baity excuse me throughout uh and you haven't seen that what i as far as
06:13what i'd like to see the mets do here in terms of second base i i look at this a
06:19little differently
06:20than i do first base first base i felt like was a need in turn it's a need to just
06:25like second base
06:26but i felt it was a position where the mets need to go and fill this either via trade or
06:31free agency
06:32you can't bring anybody back i sort of feel the same here with second base guys marcus simian
06:39can't be the answer but here's the question david stearns says he's not committing to marcus simian
06:46as the starting second baseman in 2027 the key for me is are we at the point when i say
06:53we i really
06:54mean the mets and david stern are they at the point where the contract and the money owed
06:59becomes less important to them than actually putting the best possible player on the field
07:04and so i think the mets have to put the best possible player on the field and i ideally i
07:10think this is the position where you go with the best possible player on the field with upside is
07:15what i would say i think first base is where you try to fill that gap maybe get a veteran
07:19in here
07:20that can hold it down for a couple years because you don't have guys you know that you feel are
07:24close
07:25to ready at the first base position in the minors second base is a little different and we're going
07:29to get into that so that's where i lean into how they should go now that's me saying that and
07:35me
07:35basically saying that look you can't sit here and worry about the 46 million dollars old it is what it
07:40is you're gonna have to pay the money you probably have to eat some of that money either way it's
07:44not
07:44my money i understand that but if i was the mets i would move on from it i personally would
07:50not want
07:50to see more of marcus simian at second base in a full-time starting role and if you're keeping
07:55him as a backup that is a very very very expensive backup so for me i would move on basically
08:01what
08:01i'm saying i will get to more later but i would move on what about you yeah i mean we've
08:06said
08:06verbatim here that it's time for the mets to move on from marcus simian and it's one of these things
08:11where if they don't do that i think it's more so shame on them because while marcus isn't a horrendous
08:17based runner there aren't many aspects of his game that are overly appealing to even consider having
08:22as a bench player instead of maybe a younger hungrier player that is not as established in
08:28today's game but maybe has been good as a platoon player in recent years in their career knows a role
08:33very well in a platoon setting off the bench that i think would have higher upside again we said this
08:39verbatim but it comes down to would you prefer to have marcus simian at 46 million dollars and eating
08:45that contract entirely in the sense of dfaing him outright and then adding anywhere from five to ten more
08:51million dollars on top of him so instead of him being at 46 million let's say we're looking at
08:5656 million is what is costing you between simian and adding a guy in the phrasian market or someone
09:03that you trade for that's around that type of contract profile that is younger more vibrant maybe
09:08more defensively sound maybe a more polished bat that can fill in the void greater than what simian
09:14could even as a mentor just off the bench do you go down that route or do you go down
09:19the route of
09:20staying with simian continuing to allow that hit to hit your payroll while he's a potential net
09:27negative player off your bench where yes you're limiting his playing time but when he is still
09:33playing he's not performing to the caliber as maybe someone that you could have in that position and i
09:38think anyone with common sense would tell you that they would much rather a player there were a higher
09:42upside even if that means the mets have to invest five to ten plus million dollars more into this
09:47overall situation yeah i i agree i what i think we're saying in short is are you trying to win
09:55or
09:55not right right what what's the goal next year dad right is it just for us to you know be
10:01above 500
10:02or is it to push for a deep playoff run and last of my checks steve cohen has the same
10:08interest as
10:08he has had every year and having a deep playoff run so you need to make change and this is
10:13how you do
10:14yeah and i think you know i i've said this on this show i've said this on other shows i'm
10:19a big
10:20believer when you have a sunk cost and you realize what it is you've already paid for it you already
10:23paid the price it is what it is and again i say that with all due respect understanding that it
10:28is
10:28not my money but i think good organizations understand when to move off things when they're
10:33not working and i think this is a time or that the fit of what you thought something could be
10:40doesn't work for where your team or your organization is right now and that's okay and
10:46you got to move forward now let's now we got to discuss options and i think the big question here
10:51warty is is the answer for the mets at second base already in the organization because you and i have
10:59talked about plenty of prospects here that could come in and help this team may possibly could could
11:06this is the key word here do not know for sure we got jefferson rojas arguably the mets most exciting
11:12prospect in the way he finished the season at triple a um you know we've got him here we've got
11:17emilion petre who we've talked about as well too um and then you also got to add mitch's voice name
11:22in
11:22there just because the athleticism and the speed and some of the power that you've seen but rojas has a
11:27good power ceiling that people think in second base people think is his better position than third
11:32um so it's it's very interesting where he will play and how he projects to play uh it with the
11:38do you think one of these guys is already the answer i guess i guess we could throw brett baby
11:44into that mix too i think we're both like i'm brett baby right now but of the young guys i
11:51mentioned
11:51is the answer already an organization and is that the route the metric up this is a little bit more
11:57difficult of a question to answer only while understanding what the focus for next season is
12:03because if we're focused on putting out the best talent possible then if we're basing it off of that
12:09thought process then it means that you should be adding externally at second base for the most polished
12:14option that you could possibly find and either land in what you're spending or what you're giving up
12:19in assets having said that though if there's one thing that we can learn and the mets can learn and
12:24stearns knows plenty uh from his time in milwaukee to what the brewers and other rays are doing now in
12:30the world series against each other which is an amazing story for two teams that are beyond deserving of
12:34being there quite frankly uh but what do these teams have in common they inject veterans that have been
12:41in their organization for a number of years with a youth movement of high rising top prospects each and
12:47every year that excel and you know play above expectation in many cases because they buy into what the team
12:54mo is what the focus is day in and day out and from having great athleticism to the defense the
13:00base
13:00running to the hitting you know these players are like jack of all trades in the sense that they can
13:04really do a little bit of everything and when you have a team that's built like that that you have
13:09this
13:10steady influx of you know younger talent this is how you get the most athletic clubs imaginable this is
13:16how you get teams with the highest ceiling and that's why we're seeing these teams thrive to the extent that
13:21they are with exceptions of you know their veterans that have been doing a great job as well so for
13:26the mets here when you look at the success that they had from the rotation which was tremendous
13:30from the success of noel mclean season to the upward progression of christian scott zach thornton's
13:37breakout rookie year that not many people had on their bingo card entering the season initially
13:41jonathan showing his value down the stretch for you to carson benjen aj ewing quickly establishing
13:47themselves as two of the more exciting high profile talents in all the national league when evaluating
13:52the outfield if there's anything to buy into for the mets is to actually go more in that direction
13:58have a steady balance of these veterans and your prospects are knocking on the door so yes i think
14:03the mets are perfectly positioned i think that this is going to be a very similar scenario to how the
14:08mets approached course of men last year where there's a unique exception like a kyle tucker who yes he did
14:14not meet expectations for the dodgers this year and i'm glad the mets did not make that signing
14:18in hindsight what is true though is that the mets did sign kyle tucker a year ago that would have
14:23thrown a level of a wrench into potentially how they would have won about their outfield with bench
14:27maybe not drastically but to a degree could have impacted things right so when we look a year later
14:33are there players out there that are justifiable enough for the mets to either consider trading
14:39a mitch foy and or a amelian petrie or even their top prospect in a jefferson rojas for a more
14:46polished
14:46thing to impact them immediately or is the best route for them to give these kids some run i think
14:52you
14:52can make healthy arguments either way and i think that there are some players while not many some in
14:59the trade market that could justify the mets going more down the route of just trying to get the most
15:05established guy out there i do i do find this all really interesting because you're right you can
15:12make arguments on both sides for this for me i lean to the guys i mentioned let them all come
15:19in and
15:20compete that's the way i lean now i'm saying that with the assumption because all the we're going to
15:25try to tie all this stuff together and how we look at these positions assuming that you are going to
15:30go
15:30either the trade route or free agent route to fill first base which i think is going to be the
15:36i won't say easier but maybe the pathways are a little smoother for you to fill via those avenues
15:41than second base right with that being said i guess we should discuss this too
15:49should the mets look outside the organization right we think we think these young guys are shot i'd love to
15:54see them come in and have a competition i'd love to see that in the spring the real when i
15:58say that i mean
15:59a real shot the way carson bench had a legitimate shot to make this team last sprint i would love
16:05to
16:05see that when you look at this free agent market and it's not amazing overall so if you think there's
16:13some like second baseman out there that's going to just move you it i don't know i've looked at the
16:17list maybe somebody moved you worry but you're talking about louisa rise you're talking about jazz
16:25chesom jr if you want to go poach another yankee mets fans i add another former yankee glaber torres
16:33to that mix when you consider what i think you have to consider is with what the mets have in
16:41their
16:41farm system and granted they are all unproven just to be clear they're all unproven at the major league
16:45level do you think there's anybody on this market that david stern should make a significant or short
16:52term financial commitment to or do you think david stern should be spending the money elsewhere
16:58when you look at the free agent market any second baseman if you have the mets you would make
17:02i would i don't think it'll be a long term but at least a short term commitment to
17:07yeah listen if the mets are smart about this and part ways with simming outright uh you go about
17:13this one of two ways you either make sure that your young second baseman aren't blocked or you
17:19go a short term move that essentially blocks them one more year which increases maybe the possibility
17:25of these guys being traded or it kind of becomes a thing where as the year progresses you see which
17:30prospect out of that bunch blossoms so well that they force themselves to the major league level even
17:35if that means getting creative with playing time there are a couple guys that are in the free agent
17:39class i think are worthy for the new york mets to absolutely show levels of interest and they will
17:44be in the markets for these players um it would be absolutely asinine if uh david sterns did not look
17:50at every position in this organization and see what's available externally and at minimum you know be
17:55opportunistic as uh we have seen um said many times over the years uh for the mets and other teams
18:02and one man that you did not mention that's in the free agent class that honestly is in my opinion
18:07the best option for the new york mets to arguably consider is entering his age 32 season after a
18:13great year in pittsburgh it's brandon low okay uh 35 home runs 94 runs scored 96 rbis 260 average
18:20331 on base roughly 500 slug 21 percent above league average as a hitter and the most valuable season in
18:26his career fitting in a walk year a unbelievably defensively and offensively sound season to a
18:32roughly five f4 for brandon lao and mind you that's in a pirates lineup that didn't have too
18:38much protection around him with the exception of o'neill cruz and around o'herne you know this is
18:43a brandon who raked against the mets had two bombs against freddie peralta on opening day i was
18:48witnessing you saw or maybe just missed because you were obviously going under for your surgery at the
18:53time and he just continued to kill the mets throughout the course of the year and as a long time
18:58tampa
18:58bay ray he has the playoff experience understands you know that winning culture everywhere that he's
19:03been the pirates is honestly probably part of the you know most losing culture he's been a part of
19:08in recent years but even that helped the pirates to above 500 record this year you know he was a
19:13massive factor behind that if not the top factor with brian reynolds in there so that's a guy i look
19:19at or depending as to what his price is going to be absolutely if you're the new york mets if
19:23you could
19:24try to sway this guy on short-term high av on a couple years kind of like what you did
19:29with boba shit that's how you help supplement the power that you lost from people on to others you
19:34know i'm thinking from a power perspective do the mets want to find that answer at first base
19:40right or maybe do they want to find that first and second they can which is going back to what
19:45you're saying dex it doesn't just stop with brandon low here la low potato potato i know it's one of
19:50them
19:50it could also be added jazz chisholm you don't think jazz chisholm has potential bouncing back
19:55in a mets lineup with soto and lindore and getting back to you know being around at least north of
20:00a
20:0030 home run guy i absolutely see that as a possibility i just think it'll be a bit more
20:06up and down in the jazz experience and what you would be getting in the brandon low experience i like
20:12jazz
20:12more than some people now we know the yankee fan base is very down on jazz particularly after his
20:17postseason well that's okay that's fine that's perfectly fine do i think he can bounce do i think
20:23he can bounce back absolutely i do do i think low is the safer of the two in terms of
20:32a bet for
20:33signing yes but you brought up something that was interesting you said you wouldn't mind the mets
20:37signing him to a contract very similar that they gave to boba shit right with a high av short term
20:44with maybe some some opt-outs that he'll have in there that was because that's where i was going
20:48to go with you when you said that i was like oh well what kind of contract do you think
20:51would be
20:51good for brandon low and would you would he do two years would you do three years if you're doing
20:56that
20:57because he's and are you concerned about his age too just because he's 30 he is 32 he's probably
21:02looking at yeah i don't think i don't think he's gonna i don't think he's necessarily gonna put up
21:06that stat line again next season i could see him being more right i think 25 to 30 home run
21:11category
21:12and maybe you know batting around the same i would say you know maybe a little bit less below
21:16league average like regression is inevitable as guys get older in most cases but he steadily has
21:22hit at least 20 home runs the past four years and in five of the past six years he's had
21:27at least 20
21:28or more and in 2021 his true breakout year in the bigs he had 39 home runs and 99 rbis
21:34and you know
21:34a batter's box half the year in tampa so i just see a steady bat where you're at minimum getting
21:39a guy
21:39that you can expect 20 home runs you know hopefully closer to 30 at least and in that you
21:44know 70 to 80 plus rbi range you know that was basically a very wishful thinking marcus simian
21:51approach that we had ever in this season if there was at all a way of there being a turnaround
21:55a
21:55bounce back uh low is younger uh higher upside in that regard and he's someone that i think would
22:02be slept on in this lineup when you look at all the other weapons that the mets have like if
22:06you see
22:06the production that he had with pittsburgh and tampa just think about how productive he could
22:10be in the heart of this mets lab as a guy that's really bringing in a lot of runners along
22:14with
22:15boba shett mind you along with carson benjamin oh yeah francisco lindor juan soto and aj ewing
22:20they're in that conversation too so you know you quickly realize just how deep this lineup gets with
22:25someone like him um but to your point dex about why you're maybe a bit more bullish on jazz and
22:31others
22:31i agree with you you know jazz chisholm i think the biggest issue with jazz and the mets would be
22:37the fact that jazz is just a very extroverted personality and handling that in this market you
22:42know at times doesn't always work for guys and you know jazz we've seen him kind of have some ups
22:47and
22:47downs all throughout his career from miami to the yankees but overall he's been you know a player that
22:52you can again get around 20 home runs a year out of at second base and that you know 50
22:57to 70 rbi
22:58category but what i love most about jazz chisholm and is why while yes he's very jekyll and hyde and
23:05what you could be getting with the bat at times um the overall player is just so enticing okay this
23:11is jazz in a down year that still was three and a half or the previous two or two years
23:15he was over
23:16uh you know four f4 he's entering his age 29 season so if you're looking at a guy that still
23:21has
23:21higher upside and could steal as many as 40 plus bags for the for the mets next year that's what
23:27i like
23:28so much about jazz that's what i love he's he's that multi-talented type of tool player um that's
23:33how teams win and i think while he fell short with the yanks this year the yanks should continue to
23:39build
23:39in the sense of wanting players that can really kill you in various facets of their game instead
23:44of being so reliant on the long ball that they continue to be um so what's your thoughts on all
23:50that yeah so i part of the reason i jazz is like you said i love the all-around game
23:54i like the base
23:55stealing potential i think the mets could use more players like that listen does he has he sometimes
23:59shown to be a little bit lackadaisical in the field yes does that concern me a little bit yes
24:04the thing i do like and i wonder if this clubhouse could need an injection of it because it's not
24:09just
24:09all back of the baseball card it's also the fact that he plays with passion and i know that's something
24:16you can't always quantify right and see how that impacts the clubhouse but i think he could have
24:23implacked on this clubhouse the way he plays and i just i like players sometimes that are
24:26in his age range coming off a down year with something to prove in this market
24:34you brought up a good point about can he handle this market and there's something to be said well
24:38if you couldn't handle it in the bronx and the pinstripes how's he going to handle it in front
24:41flushing yeah but i i think he might have a little bit of a want to give something back to
24:47the yankee fans
24:48and the people that doubted him i like a player motivated you're probably going to get him cheaper
24:52than you do with brandon lao um he is 29 there's still a little bit more room for him to
24:59go up
24:59brandon low is probably at the end of his prime definitely where jazz is still there and still
25:07could have a couple more good years could you get jazz on a two-year deal that's very team friendly
25:11where he has either a player option um to retest that free agent market that seems like something
25:17that would be appealing to him and i'm sure he wouldn't necessarily want to leave new york
25:20where he's been the last couple of years so i think he would be a good guy to get i
25:26wouldn't
25:26be opposed to the mets signing him on a short-term deal i'd still probably rather go the youth route
25:31um but if you're looking for a guy that you said would block one of these young players and then
25:35you're waiting to see if one of those players in the season of 2027 can then show out and show
25:40that
25:40they forced their way into the conversation to play in the majors i'd be okay with that too
25:46um louisa rise we we know we know how good he is with the bat he's gonna hit for a
25:54higher average
25:54he's gonna get on base not gonna give you much power uh 765 ops this year what would you think
26:01of the mets adding him he you know would is that somebody you'd want or are you just saying hey
26:06give
26:06the job to someone like a million peach ray who's sort of in his profile ish that you you can
26:12say
26:12what what do you think about louisa rise the mets offered him a free agent deal i mean this with
26:18all due respect i want nothing to do with louisa rise never have i knew when you said all due
26:24respect
26:25it was not gonna be anything good yeah no i just there's there's nothing about his game that i think
26:29is something that the mets need to be prioritizing when they already a have profiles similar to him
26:34as we've talked about in the minors um people that are not talking about a million petrie i'm gonna
26:39beat this drum until there's reasons not to either god forbid if he really declines next season or what
26:44have you petrie is literally the best player out of over 700 qualified minor leagues minor leaguers this
26:51year when looking at k to walk ratio okay so when looking at guys who can not only grind out
26:56at bats
26:56but are never striking out look no further than who the mets acquired in the freddie peralta trade who
27:01yeah just won alcs mvp i will talk about that on another episode um so when i look at it
27:07louisa rise
27:07i look at a guy who's not defensively sound at any single position he plays yes he's versatile
27:12that's the problem but versatile and being good defensively are two different things like brett
27:17baby's versatile but is he a good first baseman not really second base he can be third base we know
27:24that's his strong suit outfield no thank you you know again just because you throw these guys
27:29everywhere doesn't mean that they should be there so right um even if a rise is you know very much
27:34a yes
27:34man to you know signing up for whatever position is asked on a daily basis it doesn't change the
27:39fact that i don't think he brings nearly enough to the table and the worst part about a player
27:43profile like luis is as soon as that bat goes if he gets in his head if something happens where
27:48he
27:48can't handle the new york market for example and then what do we come to see a guy who provides
27:53literally no value to you okay it's not like he is an also absolute dynamo with the base running where
27:59you know he's a lot to give you like 30 plus stolen bags here he's not that kind of profile
28:03either
28:03so for all those reasons i'm more than okay with louisa rise not being in a mets uniform i'm very
28:10curious as what his market is even going to be this year gotta remember he only had a one-year
28:15deal with
28:15the giants last year to your point because of the limitations in his game so i truly wonder what the
28:22market even would be for louisa rise uh should we talk about the other former yankee that i mentioned
28:29yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah let's let's let's give let's give a glaber a conversation for a sec because
28:34you know i don't know if this is in hand with you know me referencing how the mets should pull
28:39like a
28:402016 chapman with one of the guys that they trade at the deadline and sense of you know parting ways
28:45with a guy getting them back because i would love to play homes back or someone like that but you
28:49know
28:49glaber torres was that prospect dealt to the yankees in 2016 in that chapman deal and if there's one thing
28:55we know about how david strings has operated thus far while he's definitely going to be operating a
28:59little bit differently the one thing that i want him to stay true on and steady on because it has
29:03led the mets with success thus far you can't doubt it is having players come here that have either
29:09played in new york before or played in other big markets and if the mets want to go with a
29:14short-term
29:14option at second base that is going to give them greater upside than someone like marcus simian and
29:21probably brett beatty still at times but is not going to be good enough where you have to make sure
29:27that they play every single day if they really start to fall apart labor torres is the perfect i think
29:35replacement for a marcus simian if you if the mets want to go a nice one-year deal with a
29:40second-year
29:41option now again the wishful thinking aspect about this is glaber torres is in a top heavy market and
29:48he's one of the better players in the top heavy market so how desperate are teams going to be
29:53how desperate are they going to go when they look at even a guy like louisa rise is a team
29:58going to be
29:58desperate to give him a guarantee to your contract because they know that they need help at that
30:01position or somewhere else right when we look at brandon low as a team going to be crazy enough
30:06or even jazz chisholm like an alley angels or someone else where they're going to be like you
30:11know we're going to give you a five-year contract because we have to because that's the only way to
30:16comfortably land you uh this is the question that i have surrounding when we talk about glaber torres
30:22because he didn't have the most sound season for the tigers by any stretch he only played you know
30:26half the year in 96 games eight home runs 38 rbis 57 runs scored a 260 average of 364 on
30:34base but 363 slug
30:35still good for 9 above league average as a hitter you know around one war but this is a guy
30:41who
30:41between playing second base and if you want him off the bench that's a player who i would feel a
30:46lot
30:46more comfortable with um entering his age 30 season than having marcus stimming and his age 36 37 year
30:53um and again it allows you still have breathing room for rojas for petrie for avoid where you can
31:01will ultimately have those guys maybe best glaber and glaber gets bounced around in different
31:06positions or maybe he really becomes your go-to guy off the bench i think for what it would take
31:11to acquire him i don't see that being completely out of the realm of possibility so with that with
31:17glaber i the reason it's funny you and i are on the same page as this because i think that
31:21he is the
31:22cleanest fit for somebody to come that will understand their role you understand what i'm saying
31:28right and understands new york very well right that's important here right and i think both
31:33those things matter and we think that david stern should value that the understanding new york but
31:38i also think if you're going to give these young guys a fair shot or if it's like what you
31:42alluded
31:42to warty which is hey you know what maybe these young guys aren't ready they need a little bit more
31:47seasoning down in the minors let's see who establishes themselves and separates themselves
31:51from the pack there throughout the season well if you have a glaber torres he's a guy if one of
31:55those
31:55young guys comes up and he's let's say he's struggling or he's just you know it's kind of
31:59hitting about league average right he's meh he's mid nobody's going crazy about him you then can move
32:05him into a role as utility guy and i don't think he's the kind of guy that's going to pout
32:10about it
32:10i don't think it's going to upset the clubhouse i think he will be fine with it and it wouldn't
32:15cost
32:15you that much if this is your sort of he's the signing i look at as it's comfortable it's not
32:22going to
32:23excite the fan base but he's an established everyday second baseman that's not going to mess
32:29it up that in theory right and just based on recent numbers should be better than marcus simian
32:36right now some fans are going to take us saying that and say well dex and warty they should be
32:41trying to massively upgrade but i would question that and say well where's the massive upgrade coming
32:46from you coming for you in the free agent market here right i just don't is it one of the
32:50guys that
32:50we just relayed is it a brand and load you again it could be if we're focusing on like winning
32:55just
32:55next year i'm not i'm not going to say that those guys can't be the recipe for an answer but
33:01like
33:01anything else this is going to be one of these things where we're going to find out um sooner
33:06than later how fall the house turns and how everyone's front office is evaluating the position
33:11i i will be a little surprised if the mets um go all in for someone at second base that
33:17isn't in
33:18house currently but i had no effing clue that the mets would get someone like bo bachette a year
33:26ago so thought process has changed especially when you fall short on landings during guys steve cohen
33:33literally spearheaded bo and said we have to get him after they fell short on tucker that's why i
33:37quickly sped up uh because they were talking with bo going back to like even before winter meetings on the
33:42prospect of him playing a different position than shortstop so um that's why david reaches that to
33:49everyone early you keep those relationships open those those phones open if you will and then if
33:54something you know if if something drops um maybe that you weren't expecting how are you going to be
33:59able to pivot or properly go to plan bc if a didn't necessarily go the way that you were hoping
34:04so
34:05for those reasons i'm not going to count the mets out on virtually anything i just think that
34:09some guys naturally make more sense than others which leads us now dex into my final two here
34:16before we wrap this one up uh we talked for agent targets for the new york mets at second base
34:22but
34:22do you have any idea as to who they may find themselves in the bid for when it comes to
34:26a trade
34:27see it was hard for me looking at trades because for me it's the question that you bring up before
34:32how desperate are other teams going to be right and who doesn't want to give up their prospects and what
34:38would even be the cost of guys the mets um could get on the trade market so it'd be very
34:43interesting
34:44to me see what they could do on the trade market i kind of looked at the free agent route
34:49here um
34:50more heavily than trades who do you have for trades i'm just i'm curious as to what who you had
34:55so let
34:57me start by saying that neither of these players are guys i think like the mets absolutely need but i
35:02do
35:03believe that there's one between the two that's more attractive going in hand for the jazz
35:07chism aspect that we talked about and these are two players that currently profile mainly as short
35:12stops both of which have fluctuated quite a bit though with their defensive value at short one of
35:17which has really fluctuated so much that he is more than likely your best fit at second base than
35:23anywhere else and when you have lindor still here i think that this would be a hobby bias situation if
35:29you will where you just naturally put this player to second to pair along with lindor and one of them
35:34is jeremy pena of the houston astros and the other is cj abrams of the washington nationals
35:39now starting off with pena he's he's he's a fun one in the sense he's coming off of you know
35:45the
35:45best year of his career really from a home run perspective since his rookie year at the age of 24
35:49uh 22 home runs 82 runs scored 56 rbis 12 stolen bags 277 average 325 on base and a 477
35:57slug that's good
35:58for 24 percent above league average as a hitter uh 3.4 this is coming off of
36:05six war as a player really sound both offensively and defensively about a 304
36:11uh with a 363 um based on a 477 slug now my natural biggest with someone like pena is
36:18how would he handle transitioning to a big market like new york but what is one factor with jeremy
36:24pena that i think could be an x factor and in continuing his positive production offensively
36:29it's who the mets currently have as their heading coach and that's the same guy that worked with
36:32pena every single year side by side up until this past season that is troy snicker who's the mets
36:38heading coach who's with pena from 2022 up until the start of this year so there's some internal
36:43connection there obviously troy will have heavy advocacy for someone like pena as head tools and
36:49that familiarity is what could bode the mets well you would think at least on paper and helping him
36:55kind of naturally transition to new york and to be the second baseman now and for the next number of
37:00years for this mets team because in doing so you then would position yourself if you're the mets to get
37:06creative by trading one of if not multiple of the rojas is the petries the voids of the world it
37:12allows
37:12you to uh position yourself greater to do that uh because pena is not someone that you go out of
37:18your
37:18way to trade for unless i believe at least you have a vision where he's going to be your second
37:22baseman for at minimum the next you know two to four years you know he's under club control until 2028
37:28so you'd have him for this season and uh you'd have him for 2027 um and then you know that
37:35would
37:35basically be that at least now that i think about it he would be a rental so knowing he's a
37:39rental that
37:40would go in hand as to essentially what the mets would have to give up in a deal yeah what's
37:43the price
37:44um the it's going to be it's going to be high asking price because many teams are going to be
37:47giving calls for jeremy if they if the if the astros come to you and the astros say i want
37:53rojas and
37:55voight what are you doing if i want if they say i want rojas and voight i'm saying no i
38:01think that's
38:02i think that's too much given the fact that the mets just bolstered the up the up the middle infield
38:07and losing both for just one year pena is not ideal when you don't exactly know how painting is
38:13going to transition to this market um i rojas and rojas and peach rojas and petrie
38:20that's that's still a no i think i think you can give up i think you can give up one
38:24of those three
38:25with rojas being a really tough pill to swallow because that can come back to bite you uh in a
38:30one-year rental i think rojas for pena straight up is more palatable you know for both sides i don't
38:37think they're doing it either i i agree with you um so i think the mets would have to dabble
38:43more
38:44into their extensive pitching depth in the farm and pair that with maybe either a voight or a petrie
38:50if they're looking for someone that could be at second base within the next year or two um what if
38:57they come to you with i'm gonna throw this i think this might be a little high for mets fans
39:01what i'm
39:02rubbing them i like i like doing these cost rojas santucci
39:10rojas and santucci would just be way too much way too much in in a deal for pena given it's
39:17one year
39:17um one because santucci is one of the most uh polished prospects the mets currently have
39:23when looking at starters two rojas looks like someone who again could be impactful as soon as
39:29this season positively and there's a role where rojas could be putting on putting up a line like
39:34what penny is doing this year and just more so on trying to buy in as to what penny has
39:39done at this
39:40point as a more established option than the uncertainty that comes with the player who hasn't
39:45even touched the big league level yet you know so i see what you're saying but i i still would
39:50say
39:50rojas and santucci would be it's too much steep from the mets point of view i'm just trying to think
39:55that what the the astros will want a top level pro prospect excuse me like rojas i wonder what the
40:01next level of the prospect they'd want is right is it a is it a pitching arm that is close
40:07to major
40:07league ready is it another position player that is maybe a couple of years away from major it's like
40:13what's the cost if because santucci seems closer to helping a major league team and rojas is knocking
40:21on the door too it is a high price but you're getting a proven commodity and pain and pain is
40:26a player i like i want to be clear i like that it to me it's just about what's the
40:29cost it's an avenue
40:31i would definitely look at it's what's the cost and like you said it could be a rental situation
40:36if you knew for sure he would resign with the mets past 2027 maybe that makes things a little bit
40:42different but yeah for me it'd be what's the cost who's your before we get out of here and then
40:47i want
40:48us to wrap on what we think they should do but who's the other trade candidate you had i do
40:54like
40:54pain you that's a good one that's good oh wardy i can't hear you your mic went out we lost
41:02you
41:03we're getting wardy back here we'll get his mic back uh but yes pain here could be a fantastic
41:09possibility for the mets here uh warrior giving me his other trade candidate um that we will hear
41:16uh in a second but yes could be a fantastic possibility for the mets still don't have you
41:21wardy here just making sure it's not on my end as well check check um there you go you're back
41:26with
41:26us wardy's wardy's back with us we have him uh back again yes all good now back to the yeah
41:32we're
41:32all good we are fine uh back to the the trade the other trade candidates that are possible for the
41:38mets so you had another name for us yeah cj abrams and this is a fun one in the sense
41:45cj's been in a flurry of trade conversations the past you know year and a half now for the
41:50nationals really since they had front office change the coaching staff change and cj one has a good
41:55amount of value but two he's just a fascinating player in the sense that he's entering his age
41:5926 season coming off of his best season yet with the bats listen to this 33 home runs 93 runs
42:06scored
42:06106 rbis 34 stolen bags 261 average 336 on base 497 slug that's good for 27 above league average
42:14and a roughly four war year the best season of cj's career okay lots of upside with cj abrams okay
42:21this is a guy who is essentially a lot to give you 20 home runs north of 70 to 100
42:26rbis a season
42:27depending as to exactly how he's progressed if he's trending upward the way that we saw this past
42:32year with the power because he has clear power he added a bit more pounds that we saw we're seeing
42:37that power stroke really come through now um it looks like that there could be an even higher ceiling
42:41though we saw this past season with him in a deep lineup so one would he be able to handle
42:45new york
42:45i'd like to think that he would be um the electricity that he brings with the base running would be
42:50so
42:50beautiful to pair with the carson benches and the aj ewings of the world and here's the thing about
42:57cj okay he's a free agent in 2029 so you got a couple years of control which is going to
43:02increase his
43:02value uh the nationals are going to look for canes ransom but listen this is a guy that cannot
43:07play shortstop okay he's no bueno not good at all if he was he'd be such a more valuable player
43:15the
43:15last couple years because he's been pretty solid with the bat all things considered but cj is a
43:20second base profile through and through he's boba shet at shortstop just not a guy that you want
43:26there and he had 14 games of second base this year so he already has a level of familiarity at
43:30the
43:30position and he would just go right into that position and seamlessly come in this is guy that if
43:35you're the new york mets yes you trade some of your top infield prospects for yes you do a trade
43:41or you will face some of these guys for years to come and your division but that's okay because cj
43:46abrams is someone who could be your second baseman for the next five plus years uh with the not only
43:51the age he's at but the talent he's in he's now just starting to enter what is hopefully going to
43:56be a long prime for him um unbelievably athletic player i just think that he would be a lightning rod
44:02along with lindor and obviously with everyone else that the mets have from soto and rekindling that
44:09relationship with juan as well you know they didn't really get a chance to be with each other
44:13along here um actually as a matter of fact it's funny i'm saying rekindling relationship because
44:18they do they do have a rapport but it goes in hand with cj being traded as part of the
44:24juan soto deal
44:25because he was the top pick for the padres along with uh mr james wood who's fantastic obviously
44:31and i believe robert hassel the second or the third that was also part of that deal
44:35uh but cj and james have been awesome uh nationals look like that they may move on from cj as
44:40soon as
44:41this offseason um why not do it in the division let's let's get crazy here let's make something
44:46happen with the nationals for all the reasons you mentioned the price for this is going to be high
44:50it's going to be high and for all the reasons you mentioned if it was me personally i'd do it
44:55if they could ask for rojas voight and santucci which i don't even think is a unreasonable deal
45:04for the nationals to ask for right i do that deal in a heart in a heartbeat if you're going
45:10to tell me
45:11that cj abrams is going to play second base for you next year and you have him under control
45:15passes year 26 season for another another three years to take some of 29 before he'll hit free
45:22agency yeah i'm doing that because if he produces as a met here and he's played in the nle so
45:28he's
45:28played against the phillies played against the braves he understands the toughness i understand dc
45:31is not new york i get all that but this guy's speed the athleticism the range will be better for
45:38him in
45:39terms of him moving and going to left and right at second base then the ground he'll have to cover
45:43it
45:43short i'm doing it he's a dynamic he's a dynamic that he had what over 150 hits this year um
45:51he's
45:52and this is in a nationals lineup that was yeah he will be good to me in new york i
45:59think he'll be
45:59fine in new york i think he'll be great under the leadership of lindor and soto i think this is
46:04a
46:04trade that would be a good fit it will be pricey but this is the kind of trade where i'm
46:11giving up
46:13proven get excuse me trying to get somebody who's proven and giving up prospects prospects
46:18are just prospects i understand that some of you guys are gonna tell me oh you don't know what
46:21jefferson rojas is gonna be you have no idea what a million petre is gonna be as much as we
46:24like him
46:25here on the show because of his low strikeout rate we have no idea what jonathan santucci is gonna be
46:28we have no idea i know what cj amos is gonna be i know what he's done in the league
46:33do i know if he
46:34can fully handle new york no so it's a risk there's always risk but this is the kind of risk
46:40risk that would say to me hey mr stearns i see what you're doing i see the proactivity i see
46:48that
46:48you're willing to go for it i see that you're also thinking long term in this if they if you
46:53were
46:53telling me you're going to go get a guy go get me a young guy in his prime with team
46:58control and
46:58upside cj abrams ticks all those boxes for me he also provides good athleticism good running on the
47:05base paths he checks a lot of boxes i would like is he going to be the greatest defensive second
47:11baseman of all time no but he will be solid enough not a gas going to play short and i
47:17think he'll be
47:17fine and i like someone too that again if you had to put that short because lindor goes down you
47:23can
47:24you know and not that you necessarily want him there but it just there's flexibility with a talent like
47:29him because of just how uber athletic he is and that's why you know voight is a very enticing player
47:34that i'm not opposed to the mets giving runway with if they decide to stay in-house would you
47:39if they ask for voight and rojas and a pitcher i'm not even gonna say santucci maybe santucci i got
47:44i
47:44think the price for this is gonna be high are you doing that deal yeah if it's rojas voight and
47:50a
47:50pitcher if if you can get away from santucci and maybe you know somehow get them to settle on you
47:57know
47:57either a jack winniger or you know even like it's a bill um hurtado who broke out um for the
48:03new
48:03york mets this year a southpaw um he looked very good especially going up to high a um if you
48:08can
48:08do someone more in that conversation i i mean yes um it'll be fascinating to see the kind of offers
48:15that
48:15will be thrown for cj abrams should he be made available the way that this has been a common
48:20theme that we've seen talked about um i'm excited to see how this offseason is going to play out for
48:25the mets and the more that we evaluate this position again we say to ourselves what's the best route
48:30is there a short-term option that's just better than simeon possibly is it again a younger guy like
48:36cj that warrants making that kind of big move because this is a guy that could be a cornerstone
48:40piece to your puzzle with soto mind you because juan's only like what two years older than him
48:45it's kind of crazy when you think about that and that trade how they would be together on a different
48:49team than the teams that they were traded for a couple years ago mind you it's bananas um but the
48:54thought of just having a talent like him when you look at the windows right the nationals are working to
49:00get to of course being a playoff team but they're not there yet right and they're still going to be
49:05a couple years away with the way that they're currently building especially they want to
49:08treat someone like cj so by maximizing his value even in division if there's a little bit of attacks
49:13that would benefit both sides the nationals will position themselves better for where they want to
49:17be within the next couple years and the mets will position themselves greater for right now for
49:21where they're where they want to be for 2027 and beyond so again is this something that's going to
49:27happen not necessarily it's hard to swing these things in the division but if i've learned anything
49:33is that after seeing hazel salzardo traded from miami to you know obviously the phillies i would like
49:40to think that anything is possible here in the nl east but amen that's that's what i got for you
49:45on
49:45the front of second base no i like that anything sometimes you got to expect the unexpected and
49:50there may be some unexpected for the new york mets um this offseason so we will see what the
49:54mets can do a lot of options out there you got free agency you got trades i like the two
49:58names
49:58that warty brought up here you could also stay in house which i am a fan of warty is a
50:03fan of two
50:03we will see but you know what i'd like to see some proactivity some creativity some flexibility
50:10you know of thought and how the mets might approach this let us know what you think the
50:15mets should do here in terms of improving second base uh do you want marcus simian back maybe
50:20somebody out there wants marcus simian back let us know if that is a player likes he returned should
50:25the mets stay internal should they go external in trying to improve the second base position in
50:302027 that's going to do it for this edition of straight out of fleshing that is my guy tyler ward
50:36i'm dexter ham we will be back with more next week where we talk about another position stay tuned for
50:41that
50:41peace