- 5 hours ago
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:03what's up everybody welcome back to another edition of straight out of fleshing it's your
00:06boy dexter henry alongside my guy tyler ward aka wardy wardy how's it going my friend dex i'm doing
00:16well i'm getting excited it looks like the offseason may start by time we have our next
00:20episode we'll see if the brewers are going to sweep the rays or if they're going to be fighting
00:24back there in tampa but one thing i do know dex is that as we do get to the offseason
00:29it looks like that there's going to be a lot happening in a very short period of time
00:33with the pending lockout so as we continue our discussion by getting into the new york mets and
00:40what they should do this offseason today's episode i think is going to be one of the more fascinating
00:44ones when we talk about individual positions for the club yeah so for those of you maybe came late
00:50to this the last couple of weeks wardy and i we've been doing this series that we're doing where we
00:54are looking at all the positions on the mets and what should the mets do are they good at that
01:01position do they need to upgrade uh do they need to bring up some young players what should the mets
01:06do with this position in 2027 so the first week we talked about first base last week we talked about
01:13second base and maybe you would think that we go in order and talk about third base but no we're
01:17not
01:17going to do that we're talking about what i think is maybe one of the most interesting positions to
01:22talk about that is the position of catcher what do the mets do at the catching position here's my
01:32thing wardy here's where we'll start let's just look at the catch position where they are right now
01:36you got francisco alvarez highly touted young catcher coming up came on with the burst with the spark
01:44hasn't really lived up to expectations been some health issues with that too if we're just going to be
01:48honest about it let's and you got luis torrents who's arguably the best backup catcher in baseball
01:57how would you grade the mets catching position right now and two-part question one what's your
02:03grade for the mets catch position coming off of 2026 and two should this position be off-season
02:09priority the way we talked about first base maybe and second possibly second base
02:15um is this a position they should change in how they use their how they use their catchers or having
02:21two catchers isn't enough the way the mets have right now how do you look at the mets position
02:24how do you grade it and how do you think they should handle this uh going forward it's a little
02:30tough to
02:31grade the catching position just because you have to of course factor in both defense and offense
02:36right and not that you don't do that with other positions in the infield because of course you do
02:41but with catcher it's a bit of a different animal because you know the importance of obviously game
02:45calling even though i know that's fluctuated over the years now with you know pitchers being able
02:49to call their pitchers more you know especially with dugouts calling them etc but you know between
02:53having a cannon of an arm trying to throw out guys of course trying to still second and or third
02:58base to proper blocking ability to you know even elite frame jobs that are going to have ums guessing
03:05um those things are important and when i look at the mets defensive value this past year and over
03:11the past couple years uh louise torrens has really carried the weight in that regard and while alvarez
03:17has had his shortcomings no doubt uh the mets are still positioned as an overall catching tandem as one
03:22of the better ones in baseball you know we look at the importance and the value of catching in today's
03:27game
03:27and it definitely shouldn't be lost that you know especially now more than ever it feels like
03:32finding catching is such a rarity unless you really are one of these teams that is just
03:37you're in and you're out very good with your development in set position there are two teams
03:41in particular i think of of course you have what you could even go three with the dodgers but
03:46i especially think of the milwaukee brewers and i think of the atlanta braves kind of funny considering
03:52the fact that the braves traded william contraris to the brewers and the brewers really got the best
03:58out of him including his great playoff heroics but the point i'm trying to make here though
04:02is that for the mets between alvarez youngster and torrens the veteran the mets are in currently
04:08speaking a solid position at the catching spot in comparison to many other teams even contending
04:13teams in major league baseball right now now would i like to see them have better overall outcome
04:21out of these positions uh specifically from alvarez with positive output absolutely and we're going to
04:27talk more about that in a second but is this as dire of a position for the new york mets
04:32to address
04:33on paper not as dire as some of the other positions i feel like we've already spoken about
04:38and this offseason breakdown i'd agree with you on that i think if i was grading the position because
04:45when you look at them and when i say them i mean torrens and alvarez as a combination of the
04:51production
04:51that you saw at catcher and i'll get more into that a little bit later you know it's not terrible
04:59um would you like a little bit more offensive production particularly power overall from both
05:04guys sure i'd like and i'll get to this with alvarez i'd like to see him strike out less that
05:11would also
05:11be nice i think a lot of mets fans would like that too but the mets could be doing worse
05:16i do think the
05:17mets are saved by the fact they have one of the best backup catchers in baseball i think that helps
05:23and i don't say colors but impacts how we view this overall when we look at the catching position
05:29if i had to give the mets catchers a grade i don't think it's it's great i'd probably be somewhere
05:34between a b minus and a c plus is where i think that's a very fair grade yeah i think
05:39that's fair
05:39you know i'm probably leaning more to c plus i think where you might be encouraged is the upside
05:46of francisco alvarez that we're still kind of waiting on but right we'll get we'll get to that
05:52a little bit more do i think the mets are in a bad spot with the catching position no i'm
05:57with you on
05:57this i think they're fine you can always want to upgrade you can think you want it to be better
06:01i get
06:02all that when you look at the numbers we'll definitely dive into that some more here in a second
06:06but i think there could be a conversation about how they use their catchers right is it a straight
06:15platoon are you playing francisco alvarez five days a week and terence is playing two is it four to
06:21three how are you using them what do you do if alvarez struggles will you then lean more on terence
06:27i think it'll be very interesting to see how andy green uses them next season having two good
06:33catchers you know i might say you don't really have one that's established himself solidly and that's a
06:38fair point but because you have such a good backup in terence it does afford you some ability to relax
06:46a little bit warty is what i will say right now you c plus is the c plus grade is
06:51not going to
06:52excite anybody i understand that it is not going to excite anybody with the c plus grade but you
06:56could do worse you just i think what especially with alvarez if he's hitting higher up in the order
07:01if you got him batting fifth you know you'd like to see a little bit more power you'd like to
07:06see
07:06him put the ball in play a little bit more so we'll see with that being said when you look
07:13at
07:13francisco alvarez today today after this 2026 season do you still believe in his offensive upside
07:19like what makes you still possibly believe in his offensive upside and what would you need to see
07:24change with alvarez before you get to the point where you say okay i trust him as the mets long
07:30-term
07:30catcher yeah you know it's a shame when we think about how alvarez first broke out on the scene as
07:36a
07:3621 year old and having us all buy into the incredible stock because let's not forget he
07:41was one of the most coveted if not the most coveted um if a signing the mets had made to
07:46that point
07:46because at the time he was their largest signing um out of the ifa from met as well at the
07:51age of 16
07:52and to have the immediate impact of 25 home runs as a 21 year old as a catcher you know
07:57it's hard for mets fans not to think about oh my god is this is this our next piazza or
08:02you know
08:02someone that could at least you know be a stronghold of a long-term catcher in this organization
08:07and you know seeing the fluctuation with the offense injuries aside i mean alvarez struck out
08:13at 30 this year i mean he just looked like a guy who simply didn't care in the second half
08:17quite
08:18frankly um there were some stretches where he was able to pick things up but he he just does not
08:22have
08:23the discipline whatsoever that to this day bothers me royally because i think about how he was sent down
08:31into the minor leagues in 2025 not because of injury but because of lack of consistency
08:35gets the call back up and he looks like a new man and his approach was far more polished he
08:42was
08:42hitting the ball everywhere while yes the power was starting to come back he was just a far more
08:47polished hitter down the stretch and the mets still falling short to make playoffs that season
08:52and it was it's just a shame to see that alvarez who looked like he was having a solid approach
08:57to
08:57begin the year again just not be that guy the mets need him to be do i have optimism that
09:03alvarez can
09:03still be a 25 home run plus um home run hitter again the major league level absolutely he's only
09:09entering his age 25 season you'd be crazy to write him off when there are so many catchers that don't
09:14even make their major league debut until right around the age that alvarez is currently at for context
09:18so i will always reference that until basically i can't anymore um and i will say this though uh the
09:26things that alvarez needs to do differently because like again like jpr and cbo who is you
09:31know at the major league level for the mets um cat uh for the mets catchers i really thought he
09:35was
09:35going to have a greater impact than what he did for alvey this year from what we at least saw
09:39on paper
09:39um as well as with the eye test alvarez's offensive approach was atrocious i know jp wasn't this big
09:45stud of a catcher during his time in the major leagues per se but i was hoping that that playing
09:50experience would kind of bode alvey better than what we saw this year in results point here though is
09:55what can alvarez do to get better well there needs to be this stopping of the constant tinkering in
10:02his offensive approach the lack of confidence he's had since a guy who hit 25 home runs at the age
10:07of
10:0821 is insane and when i say lack of confidence i say it in the sense of lack and confidence
10:13in
10:13entrusting himself and how to get the best out of his obviously um you know out of himself with his
10:19offense especially in times of needing to adjust i mean yes alvarez obviously was swinging for the
10:24fences a lot as a 21 year old but if you look at the gradual project uh progression throughout the
10:30next number of years he sat right around the same k percentage and then had far away his worst year
10:35this year so it's one of these things where what about the mets hitting approach with him change so
10:41much yet again and two can the mets just get him to a steady flow of being that guy who
10:48has a bit more
10:48of a short compact swing a very powerful swing but one with more discipline can absolutely do wonders
10:54as a lethal power bat in his lineup because if they can't do that then it begs the question well
11:01what are you getting defensively now alvarez right because defensively he was a dynamo's rookie year
11:06and he's looked like a shell that since then okay whether it's obviously having the one leg up one
11:11leg down and allowing some pass balls to obviously cost him and the mets whether it's botching throws
11:18at second and third in ways that terence simply doesn't do okay i get louise trends is five years
11:23older but he does laps around him from a defensive standpoint and that's why we saw terence be
11:28nominated as a gold glove award winner um as a catching nominee this year in major league baseball
11:33okay so when we look at alvarez who has a cannon of an arm he has a bill that would
11:39make you think
11:40that he could do more of what you saw from his rookie 21 year old season but he hasn't he
11:45hasn't
11:45been able to do that and he needs to get that mental confidence back up and his offensive approach
11:49trust his gut in ways that you know appears that he has in recent years and defensively we need to
11:54get that game up okay because if the defense continues to be a lackluster and he profiles better as a
12:00dh
12:00sure there can be some games decks where you have alvi at dh and terence catcher it worked for the
12:05mets for a stretch of time that we saw this past year in the second half we saw it for
12:08a number of
12:09games they're like okay you know alvarez was kind of swinging a hot bat terence was doing his thing
12:13offensively defensively let's cook here but you know that's probably aren't going to view alvarez
12:18as like a main dh option for them next season at least at the time i was talking right now
12:22so my big thing is is is there a world where the new york mets say themselves you know what
12:29we
12:29extended at least trends for a reason he knows what it takes to play in new york he can understand
12:33the
12:33ups and flows of the pressure we love his clutch ability with runners the square musician
12:36we know he's a dynamo defensively but alvarez cat's still out the bag a little bit and it might
12:42be a situation with him where change of scenery and maximizing level trade value knowing the cup
12:47control he has for a number of years still and he's only entering his age 25 season could be feasible
12:52if the mets are focusing on this kind of more when now window i think this falls in the category
12:57as we
12:58discussed second base decks let me know if you feel the same or different do the mets need to part
13:03ways with francisco alvarez no they do not i don't think heavy arguments against it but is there an
13:09argument in parting ways with him and upgrading that position even if that means you're doing a
13:14bit of an overspendisher on a catcher that's available in the free agent market depends on
13:19who exactly that individual is there's a couple that come to mind um but i definitely want to know
13:24how you feel about i guess the mets goal and focus here because this is a team that's been balancing
13:29the young players with the veteran players but what what's the end goal for 2027 and how does
13:35that factor into the plans for alvy that's a big question now you get again you gave yourself some
13:40cover when you signed louis to rents to that extension right you gave yourself some cover
13:44with smart move by david i do think it's a smart move that should be um lauded a little bit
13:49more
13:49because it gives you the flexibility to move in some of the ways you talked about for me you referenced
13:57francisco alvarez going down i believe that was in august i mean it was late july early august
14:01of uh 2025 and going down to syracuse and working on some things and i believe it was will salmon
14:09i
14:09don't want to be wrong they wrote a good article in the athletic about that and his time down there
14:13and
14:13sort of how he found himself and you know working on some things with the with the coaches and
14:18wardy you're right when he came back up the plate discipline looked completely different
14:23his approach at the plate looked completely different and because of that i and i believe
14:29you were too we're like hey this is gonna be our guy that's gonna break out in 2026 and that
14:36did not
14:36that did not happen when you look at the strikeout rate right which i believe is just under 35 percent
14:41i think it's 34.8 percent his strikeout rate that he had here that's not what you want to see
14:48obviously this is not what you want from your your catcher here yes i understand that this is a guy
14:54who has a lot of power or projected to be what we saw with him coming up and hitting those
14:5725 home runs
14:58back in 2021 but this has got to be better when you look at his numbers overall you look at
15:03the
15:03you know 233 averages to play to a 3 311 on base percentage 399 just under 400 slugging and a
15:10710 ops
15:11yes you know with the you have 16 homers last year uh alvarez had last year right you're like
15:18that's fine and i always like to look at things as yes there's going to be some level of disappointment
15:22because that's not what we were sold with alvarez now you mentioned could he be the next mike piazza
15:29and i always thought that was lofty expectations to put him there but you thought this was a guy that
15:33could hit for a decent average would be able to have projected as pretty good defensively because of his
15:40arm right and so when you hear that a guy's going to hit for you at the plate going to
15:44provide you
15:45power between 25 30 home runs a year can also have a decent arm throughout runners but you haven't
15:49seen that and you use the best word that i think when i look at alvarez right now it's i
15:54the talent's
15:55there for me the talent is there for me and i still believe that the talent's there because we saw
15:59him
16:00go down in 25 work on his game and come back up and granted he was battling some injuries that
16:05year too early on in the season but come back up and look like a different player however when you
16:10don't see it put together that's where i got to start worrying about confidence when i see you
16:14starting chasing pitches that are way out of the zone because it looks like you're pressing i think
16:20about confidence how does he get that swagger back how does he get the confidence back because when he
16:24came up in 21 he looked like a player that belonged he looked confident and fine and maybe he was
16:30playing
16:30freer and you could say yes dexter was pressure from when he came up to the big leagues sure but
16:35he just
16:35looked freer he looked lighter you're not seeing that with francisco alvarez anymore here's where
16:40i am because of the deal to torrens and i'm gonna get to torrens in a second you gave torrens
16:46his
16:46extension i personally would be willing to give alvi a good half of this year show me what you got
16:53this is a let's just be real about it this is a make it or break it year for francisco
17:00alvarez
17:00because after this season you can't talk about uh you know i still believe in the potential if we're
17:07sitting here at this time next year still using the potential word here what do we do there's
17:12yeah i agree you can't you can't do that at some point i'm with you and yet he's still shown
17:20enough
17:20that you can still believe that he could turn us around he's not even 26 years old but at some
17:24point
17:24it's going to be like all right you've had we've seen your body of work we've seen these movies
17:28before something either it's changing or it's not either you get it or you don't i thought last
17:34year was a big year for francisco alvarez so people are going to hear me say dex you said this
17:37last
17:37year yeah you're right i did and you know what i'm willing to give him one more year i also
17:43would
17:44like to see if he can stay healthy but if not i think you got to move on from him
17:48i think you got
17:49to then look at maybe luis torrens holding down to see if you can upgrade now you mentioned upgrading
17:53in the free agent to class this year i want to get to that in one second but before we
17:59do that
17:59before we do that because i think that's very interesting can we talk about luis torrens because
18:05if you think and i think he's arguably the best backup catcher in the sport
18:11if let's say i'm gonna give you a situation wardy let's say alvarez struggles i'm assuming baseball
18:19starts on time april and may let's say he struggles or if you're andy green are you going
18:27into the season saying hey if alvarez doesn't have it i'm willing to give a larger share of the
18:32catching duties to luis torrens are you or like how do you view torrens you look at him as a
18:38backup
18:38is he equal partner to alvarez right now or should we come to a point we're saying hey he's the
18:43primary
18:43catcher let's go because our colleague john hayman told us last year before the trade deadline that he
18:49would trade francisco alvarez and make luis torrens the primary catcher and believes the mets can win
18:54with him going forward i'm not quite there yet but where are you on luis torrens is he a backup
19:02is he
19:02equal with alvarez or would you make him the primary catcher where are you with him i think torrens is
19:08a
19:081a 1b with alvarez where it's kind of like you know 60 40 you know in that range or you
19:14know you want
19:15to go you know 55 and then the other percent is going to be trends or vice versa you know
19:21the
19:21mets under any green you can tell they're going to ride the high hand a little bit and that's i
19:25think
19:25what they should do um not you want to ride it until you drill it into the ground and it's
19:30you know
19:30beat but you do obviously want to take advantage of guys that are hot and not pull the carlos mendoza
19:36card where it's like oh yeah you know how you just had like the best game of your career last
19:39night we're
19:40going to give you the off day because you know sorry bud you don't have a 700 ops against lefties
19:44like the mets can't be doing that and andy green strikes me as one who will be doing that less
19:49um than what we've seen prior and i think when you look at uh torrens and his value uh it'll
19:56be very
19:56indicative as to how he performs if he plays very well when called upon and alvarez doesn't it's going
20:02to be hard to justify alvarez being the priority between the two now what can happen is and what
20:10will likely happen is in a normal 162 should the mets start the season with both these catchers
20:14one of them is going to go down with injury at some point okay do i wish it no quite
20:18the opposite
20:19but these things are nearly inevitable whether it is torrens having a tweak or if it's someone like
20:25alvarez having a tweak which you know if member service is correct that very much can be a possibility
20:31if not a probability to happen just with the way that he he plays the game um so the mets
20:37are going to
20:37need torrents no doubt and he had a great year for the mets um his best year uh from a
20:42hitting
20:42perspective with the mets too actually um with you know eight percent below league average a hitter
20:47alvarez was better at you know one percent below league average funny enough but torrens is a more
20:52valuable player because of his superb defense at a total of 2.1 war so it's like for the mets
20:58they
20:58don't have you know a dynamo of a hitter and torrens or alvarez they both provide similar value
21:04currently and that's not what you want when you look at alvarez alvarez should be the guy that
21:09clearly sticks out year in and year out offensively but you know besides the home runs there's nothing
21:13that sticks out about his offense approach right now uh that torrens doesn't do at least from this
21:18past year you know in similar regard you know torrens had right around the same slug as alvarez this
21:24past year and that's not what you're looking for in the sense of alvy alvy should be in the 500
21:29plus
21:29slug category not just scratching 400 um but torrens what i love about him and why i think he's
21:36so valuable not only with his defense it's his clutch ability okay uh torrens also does laps
21:42around alvarez from you know at at times not all the time but at times i feel like we've seen
21:46the past couple years and really being clutch with some big hits with two outs runners and scoring
21:51position down the first baseline down the third baseline always going opposite field a little bloop
21:56maybe a little off a home run every now and then like he's just one of these guys i think
22:00gets
22:00slept on so much in the lineup so then when it is time for him to get up to the
22:04plate get some
22:05pitches that you absolutely cannot miss and takes full advantage of it um torrens is just a nice steady
22:12veteran of a catcher arguably the best move that david stern's ever made as president because he
22:16acquired him for a hundred thousand dollars from the yankees for cash consideration so pretty good in
22:20hindsight um but forgot about how cheap it was exactly like it's nuts like they got him
22:26uh especially because alvarez went down if i'm not mistaken that year with injury uh that might
22:31have been the year that i think that was the year he got hurt rounding first base i believe so
22:38in
22:38la yes on the road trip and then like he tore the tendons in his thumb or something um oh
22:44god that still
22:45bothers me anyways um torrens was clutch he was with the mets then that we saw in the london series
22:50i think you know um against the phillies had some really big tags that we saw a nice hit as
22:55well
22:55um but point here though is that can the mets run it back with his catching tandem next season
23:00yes but if the priority is winning there is always an argument upgrading the position when you have
23:08two right around league average hitters as your catchers do you want to take a risk
23:16risk and see if the reward outweighs said risk in a world if they decided to part ways with alvarez
23:23maximize his current value not as good as it might be a year from now if he has a health
23:27right here
23:28but shoulda coulda woulda the mets have another year of alvarez where he's injury prone
23:33doesn't hit well strikes out at over 30 percent again you know it's this is the gamble that you take
23:40and they know him better than anyone else so if the mets were to move on from alvarez i think
23:45that
23:45would be unbelievably telling that either they believe that he is not going to be the catcher
23:49for their future and that they might be able to see him blossom elsewhere kind of like william
23:54contreras of the brewers other organizations can absolutely get the best out of players like
23:58up until yesterday freddie peralta leaving the mets for the raise right so these things can happen but
24:03i do believe that the mets are truly focused and lockstead on really trying to have the best team
24:09possible next year there's always room to upgrade each position always room it'll be interesting and
24:17i think that brings us to where we will go as we come towards the end of this but should
24:21the mets look
24:22outside the organization to upgrade a catcher because like you said look these are right around league
24:27average hitters that they have the catchers torrens giving you more value defensively of course as we
24:32have seen but here's the thing i always say people are like well i'm sure there'll be fans here to
24:36say
24:36mets got to upgrade a catcher okay if they decide to do that
24:43who is at the top of your list and whether that's trades whether that's free agency there's a couple
24:49free agents i think we could look at it here too um and what would the player you bring in
24:56need to
24:57provide to justify deciding whether it's with money or players that will take to acquire
25:04the player the player if it's via trade like what who who i'm i would probably
25:11well i'll save this for a second i won't i won't give away what i'm gonna say on this
25:16so i think it's fair i think it's fair to explore this though this is what i'll say where the
25:20mets are
25:20with this you got to explore this because if you really to your point if you're serious about
25:24winning in 2027 you got to take a look at this and good organizations are always taking looks and
25:30ways to upgrade so who are you looking at i got some i got some names here too free agents
25:36and
25:36trades that we could there's one for agent that sticks out better than the rest yes he's someone
25:42that was highly coveted at the traded line yep the team that had him said that we're gonna hold on
25:47to
25:47him yankees fans in particular were not happy about it they were very angry and that was right
25:53and that of course and that is going to be another ryan this time and ryan jeffers yes and jeffers
25:59the
25:59big thing about him is you know you look at his status 14 home runs 56 rbis 256 average 353
26:06on base
26:06461 slug batted roughly 30 percent above league average as a hitter and a 2.6 war you know not
26:12a
26:12defensive dynamo like terrens but a plus defensive and offensive player to the point that you know he was
26:18you know pushing north of three war on the most valuable season he had his career what's the problem
26:22with ryan jeffers i'm so glad you asked x it's health it's availability and that's that's a problem
26:28right you know so is jeffers enough to justify parting ways with alvarez could be in the shorter
26:36term depending on what the mets could maximize in a deal for alvarez separately and what you'd have to
26:42sign jeffers for because he's entering his age 30 season hasn't played more than 122 games in his
26:47entire career has been basically floating around 100 to 120 games each of the past four seasons
26:53as a major league baseball five uh is someone though that at his peak so far we've seen him
27:00hit in 122 games 21 home runs 64 rbis 226 average and you know six percent above league average at
27:06the
27:06time as a hitter so from a hit tool and power perspective it's not like you're getting a guy
27:11that's much of an upgrade over alvarez there's some redundancy there even though that he was on pace
27:16in a normal 162 to you know have you know well over 20 home runs this past season but what
27:22i love
27:22so much about jeffers if the mets were going to go down a route of actually prioritizing guys that'll
27:27be more polished hitters in their lineup and their plate discipline i mean jeffers strikes out at over
27:3410 percent less than alvarez there's a number that's the number that's that's the number that's
27:40and that's what's changed about him over the past three years he went from he was initially a guy
27:44throughout his first like four years of his career averaging you know anywhere from 26 to 37 percent
27:52and strikeout percent it's terrible numbers to them the past three years no higher than 20 percent
27:57okay so that's what i look at he's getting better each and every year we're seeing with his overall
28:02head approach for the most part back-to-back years of at least 14 percent above league average as a
28:07hitter and yes is there a risk between availability and him handling the big market in ways we don't
28:12know absolutely and this could be something that could backfire on the mets but the point here
28:17though is that if you're buying into what is your most polished recent product and making the best
28:24team possible for next season he helps in that regard and oh yeah who's someone who knows him
28:29better than literally any other exec outside of the twins organization it's derrick falby who's working
28:34directly in hand now with david stern so just something to throw out there from a phrasian perspective
28:39but jeffers will be looking for a bag he's undoubtedly the best catcher in the market uh i don't know
28:44how
28:44his market is going to shape up but he's he's going to be looking for a pretty penny i think
28:49what's going
28:49to come down to with him it's whether the mets are looking at him or anybody else how much do
28:54you trust
28:55his lack of availability and somebody might say well hey francisco alvarez hasn't been that available
28:59so you might be going from him to jeffers and a guy's not available but that you hit the number
29:04on the
29:05head the number that jumped out to me was oh man numbers are kind of similar here ops was higher
29:11obviously for jeffers this year over a 14 ops but the strikeout rate being lower and anybody who knows
29:20me and knows my baseball tendencies and what i like is i want less strikeouts more balls put in play
29:27more chances to make the defense work i love that i love that kind of baseball even if it means
29:32a little
29:32less power which is something you could get with a ryan jefferson how he profiles now he is 34 years
29:37older than alvarez right so what you're what you're really asking yourself this year because both guys
29:45have not been healthy so what you're asking yourself here is am i willing to pay without having to give
29:52up any assets and move off of alvarez for a guy that is where i want alvarez to be right
29:58now with the lower
29:59strikeout rate what's the cost for you to do that are you willing to do that and what's his mark
30:03going to be like
30:03that i don't know maybe david sterns would be willing to do that depending on what he thinks he can
30:08get
30:08in return for alvarez and the other thing is if you're going to try to trade alvarez and sign someone
30:12like a jeffers warty what you're saying to yourself then too is i necessarily don't believe
30:18that alvarez will get to where jeffers is right now where he's made the improvements despite the injury
30:24history and cut down on his strikeout rate that's the big thing you're saying so you're saying you
30:28know that and to your point you're selling i won't say high on alvarez but at the point where you
30:35can
30:35probably get the most value could right now for alvarez if you don't believe he's going to be that
30:39guy that is going to cut down on his strikeouts and be able to put balls in play and also
30:44get better
30:44defensively which we mentioned too right not that jeffers is this model he's not torrens but he is a plus
30:51defender in terms of what he can do behind the plate i would say if that's the belief
30:57and you do believe there's a trade out there for alvarez i would move on if that's again that is
31:02key
31:02if you believe that alvarez can't get to what jeffers is doing now if you tell me there's a
31:08world in which i don't know what the percentage we'd sign up for if alvarez gets his strikeout rate
31:13down into the mid-20s this year we see that kind of 10 percentage point drop i think a lot
31:18of fans
31:18would sign for that in a heartbeat oh for sure you'd be jumping for joy if i told you that
31:23could
31:24happen right now then i would say well and and alvarez would be reasonably healthy i would say
31:28hold on to him it really comes down to that do you believe in the work and that's going to
31:33happen
31:33can i throw another name at you that's a free agent before you throw me another name let me just
31:39throw out these stats briefly here just to further justify why you can expect ryan jeffers to get a good
31:45payday because even in the smaller sample given how top heavy the market is when you look at the
31:49you know the numbers of like high leverage for example he batted over a thousand with the ops this
31:55past season right when you look at two outs and runners the scoring position just under 900 ops
31:59late and close just under a thousand uh you also look at runners the scoring position in general
32:04996 ops you look at men on base in general 856 uh with two outs 857 uh this is a
32:12guy who was steadily
32:13clutched when called upon his respective samples um for the twin past season and a lot of that has
32:20to do with that strikeout rate his eye at the plate is more disciplined than it ever has been in
32:27his
32:27career so while he's entering his age 30 season or so you know he's he's very much in the peak
32:33crime
32:33of his career right now versus where he was five years ago yeah it's going to be very interesting to
32:38see and some of the numbers you bring up in terms of clutch ability right like what matters in terms
32:42of
32:42being clutch is you know what maybe not striking out as much maybe just putting the ball in play
32:47all those things help in terms of actually being clutch um another free agent i do not think that
32:54to be clear i'm just throwing this name out here i do not believe that this person will have the
32:58market that jeffers has he's clearly the number one free agent in terms of catchers on the market but
33:03the reds have a catcher coming out tyler stevenson uh who will be a free agent is here too
33:10didn't hit as high for average on base percentage is lower than jeffers so is the ops as well too
33:17all lower numbers did it 15 homers what do you think about tyler stevenson i don't think he's
33:25gonna have the market that jeffers has but
33:30solid guy is is he really an upgrade if you're gonna go to free agent route over francisco alvarez
33:36he's not because this is a ryan i'm not ryan jeffers this is a tower stevenson that's striking
33:42out at yes you know anywhere from 27 to 34 percentage the past two years while playing in a band
33:48box half
33:48the season like literally he he has a gimme of juicing his offensive numbers and he's not juicing
33:53him the way that he could as he did earlier in his career no steroids yeah so yeah i mean
33:58let me
33:58put it this way if he if if he has a 99 wrc plus the same as alvarez this past
34:03year uh and doesn't
34:05bring just immense defensive value like there's not what are you what are you doing what's the move
34:10for exactly like jeffers isn't jeffers you could argue as is that he's not enough of a needle mover
34:18but we just but you've seen you've seen improvement in the key area yes there's a difference in seeing
34:24a guy that's you know becoming his peak form right now versus someone who we already know who he is
34:30he's established and he's not someone that we can anticipate at least on paper to be something greater
34:36than what he has been and has he been able to stay healthy for 130 games three of the past
34:41four years
34:42yes you can give that to stevenson availability is the best thing on his side that's what i will give
34:47him he's had roughly 500 player appearances three in the past four years right alvarez can't sniff
34:52that you know even if he tried uh the most he's had in his season was almost this year funny
34:57enough
34:57he had 420 this year but he had 423 in the 2023 season in his rookie year um so yes
35:04availability you
35:05can argue but that's really where we stand when it comes to tyler stevenson you know there's one
35:12individual that came to my mind in the trade market uh i wonder if i wonder if he's on your
35:16list
35:17that was on mine but i don't know how realistic it would be and i also i'm gonna throw this
35:22out
35:22there before you say the name yeah you could look at his numbers and say because of where he plays
35:28uh it could be a little bit of juice are we thinking about the same person who you got i
35:32don't think we
35:32are so i'd like you to start with yours yeah i don't know how again don't know if this would
35:38be
35:38realistic i think it would cost the mets a lot but hunter goodman from the colorado rockies um
35:44obviously the 41 home 41 dingers this year but you know i didn't look at the splits home road but
35:50obviously playing in colorado you always have to consider that um he has been available the last
35:56couple of years um well over 500 played appearances had 500 540 at bats in 2025 518 in 2026
36:03um the slugging percentage has been fantastic the ops uh also great 839 ops so i mean it's great 41
36:14homers 88 ribbies but what the rockies are going to want a lot for him and why would they move
36:22off
36:23from him right now a guy who's in their age 27 season they're trying to turn things around
36:28you'd have to give up a lot for this guy to get him you would have to give up a
36:32lot and the mets
36:33would probably look at goodman and maybe say themselves well this is another kid who's striking
36:38out around 30 of the time is he hitting a lot more home runs yes so that's kind of more
36:43so
36:43warranty but he also plays in colorado strikeout position but he plays in colorado and he hasn't
36:48been anything beyond roughly 20 higher than league average which was a year ago this past year he was
36:53only 12 and he was one war down because he dropped in both the offensive and defensive value this past
36:58season while having almost the same sample size as your prior you had 10 more home runs this past
37:03year but how much of that is inflated by playing in cores let's actually just take a look at this
37:07i'm curious and let me make clear yeah home and roads home and road splits for you know guys you
37:13know that say play in band boxes yes you want to put a level of an asterisk but in many
37:18cases it's not
37:19overly drastic where it's like that's how they they will transition because you have to realize
37:24for many for many players in baseball no matter where they're playing they will have a bias and
37:30a comfortability in many cases playing at home you know it doesn't always happen no matter where it is
37:35right exactly that's the point it's like you should have a comfortability playing at your home ballpark
37:40because it's the same ballpark where you know every single dimension for 80 games versus traveling all
37:45over the country and playing in all these different spots where you might only play in a stadium for
37:49once or twice a year that you're not familiar with whatsoever so these things are just you know can
37:55get disregarded when we talk about like home and road but it should be acknowledged because it's
38:00something that i i in the past wouldn't acknowledge as much as i should too but if we look at
38:04okay
38:05on on the road this year he was he was a better hitter than he was at home so i
38:10mean that definitely
38:11helps um you know killed the narrative he had 25 home runs and an 882 ops on the road this
38:17year
38:17and only 16 home runs with a 791 ops at home so you know we can't use this cores excuse
38:23we really
38:23can't more than half his homers came on the road and then the second half he still had right around
38:28800 ops it's not like he fell off a cliff batting wise because you know we saw jeffers dealing with
38:34ailment this year and the first half he was great and then the final comes a couple months of the
38:38year
38:38he was not good at all uh with someone like goodman younger club control until 23 you're
38:44gonna have to give to get you know yep would there would there at all be a world where the
38:48mets could somehow some way trade francisco alvarez the cores he juices those numbers in ways that he
38:54wouldn't have done with the new york mets they work with him but we just trade alvarez and something
39:00else you know like like alvarez and some other pieces um and basically a catching swap um i don't see
39:07i don't see that do that yeah i think i think this is just more kind of wishful thinking that
39:12is anything else the mets would have to blow them away and i don't think the mets are in a
39:15position
39:16where they feel desperate enough to do that for what goodman's asking price is going to be now
39:21there is one player that i have that here yours yeah what's funny about mine is
39:28he's under club control till 2031 he's a guy that shouldn't come cheap but he's currently on a team
39:35that's in the world series and it's an interesting thought as to given how this organization has
39:42operated before will they be willing to do so again to really maximize value of a young player
39:48regardless of what they trade at the deadline and that's going to be liam hicks for the tampa bay
39:53rays um hicks was traded from miami to tampa this year because miami and tampa always trade with each
39:58other um 18 home runs 66 runs scored 82 rbis his true first breakout year at the major league level
40:05as a rookie basically he's awesome um well almost almost a rookie because he played last year for
40:09miami but he wasn't nearly as good 284 average 367 on base 434 slug good for 23 percent of public
40:16average to hitter at three war season in his first true breakout year as a 27 year old so already
40:22a
40:22couple years older obviously than alvarez and around the same age as goodman um is he going to cost you
40:28as much as hunter goodman no he should not this is again his first true breakout year um but 554
40:34played appearances 142 games why is that notable decks because that's more than alvarez has ever
40:39provided in a single season for the new york mats yes for the right and this is and this is
40:43him
40:43just starting his career mind you so he's hicks has been a journeyman he was in the texas rangers farm
40:49for a while then detroit now obviously getting some success with miami as a league average hitter last
40:55year now obviously a public average this year would you would you be buying into too much on a guy
41:00who's
41:01been playing in some hitter friendly parks that's always a risk or or do you or i know this is
41:06all
41:06new to him do you think it's enough of a sample size for you to look at him and say
41:09yeah i believe i
41:11believe in this he's under control to when he's got he's he's under control 2031 but dex there's just
41:18something so attractive about him so attractive about him that if the mets were like we really want
41:24to focus on plate discipline this is our guy and he doesn't he doesn't strike out like that he doesn't
41:30not only does he not strike out like that dex he does laps around ryan jeffers okay he struck out
41:35on 9.9 percent this past you know i love that that's awesome that's fantastic right and you know
41:4114.4 percent in his rookie year rookie year 14 for the worst strikeout percentage dex he's ever
41:48had in his career was the only time he cracked over 20 and that was in high a in 2022
41:54okay which
41:56is understandable coming into coming into professional baseball but the point is is that
41:59throughout his entire professional career he has been a high contact high on base machine and now
42:06that's starting to get to the major league level so the mets don't need you know this amazing
42:13power at the catching position i want stability there and i want long-term stability as is the
42:18case with every position naturally so there's one guy out there that you know the rays got and i
42:25thought was a great deal for them but one that they could still flip him for and maximize the return
42:31and get creative yes with new ownership they're going to be wanting to spend more but how far are they
42:35going to be willing to spend i don't know to be determined with tampa here this is one i would
42:40i would
42:40keep an eye on if tampa gets crazy at all just because they are the tampa's the same team that
42:45traded brandon low had the best season of his career arguably and they go all the way to the
42:51world they would probably use his bat in the lineup right now but that's a discussion they'd love that
42:56they'd love that against they will love that power but the point is is that tampa's like this unique
43:01team where like year in and year out even if they are able to spend more they they have more
43:05of a
43:06willingness to trade some of their top talents they even have years of control because they just
43:10see a deal that's just better for them organizationally because they're just so confident
43:14in their player development so confident you know they acquired liam hicks because they needed catching
43:19to help this season but it's not to say that they can't develop things in-house for next year yeah
43:24and
43:24they might have the guy they're developing in-house and want to flip him he fits the profile the kind
43:29of
43:29catch i'd like for the mets i know people would look at this and say oh like you know it's
43:33not sexy
43:34power numbers just to 18 homers this year i'm fine with that if you're going to get the way he
43:38hit
43:38this year with his ops being over eight with the you know with the homers at 18 with the average
43:45of 284
43:46if you're going to do that and strike out um below 10 of the time yeah sign me up for
43:55that now what i
43:55would love to know what the cost would be and i don't know if tampa's going to do this after
44:00a world
44:00series appearance year it looks like they are probably going to lose this world series to the
44:05brewers but i don't know what they would do but i see your thinking and what you're trying to do
44:09the reason i like that we've had this conversation that we even had hunter goodman in here
44:13and we also had ryan jeffers and we had liam hicks in here is just showing you how teams are
44:19going
44:19to look at this and the different kinds of profiles of catchers what the opportunity cost could be
44:23what the actual cost could be to trade or sign one of these catchers it's very interesting
44:27i like liam hicks i like i like where you're thinking will tampa trade him i i'm with you i
44:33don't think you can just say no because we've seen them flip guys before good players and as they
44:39always try to extend and be like oh we have another guy coming up you make a good point on
44:42that it'll
44:43be very interesting to see what they do that's a good name some good names here in terms of who
44:47the
44:47mets could look at i guess the last thing for me is if you're david stearns your boy what's your
44:54decision here warty are you keeping the current arrangement are you going to give louise torrens
44:59a larger role or are you going to move one of these catchers i don't think it'll be torrens
45:04probably more likely alvarez and bring somebody else in what are you doing here if you're david
45:08stearns before the 2027 season if there is an opportunity that presents itself where david can
45:16make a liam hicks type of move happen where yes even for what you're going to have to give up
45:22in
45:22the farm there's such a high confidence level that he's going to be a proper fit of the mold of
45:25what
45:25we're building i'm not opposed to that but what do i anticipate to happen and what do i expect to
45:30happen what your mets fans expect to happen is that francisco alvarez and least friends will be the
45:34mets catching tandem to be in the 2027 season uh but i believe as is the case with stearns's job
45:42it also holds true with alvarez i think that this is in certain aspects a make or break year now
45:48before you say how could that be for alvarez entering his age 25 season i am someone who's
45:53been so such a heavy advocate of alvy throughout the years and him because of his age and because
45:58of that optimism that comes with the uncertainty of him as he gets older that you know even for me
46:03it's kind of rearing its head where you know he's been a league average header and he's been a below
46:08league average defender okay yep and the mets get another dose of that next year ailment as well
46:16enlightened me as to why the mets shouldn't at least start to be proactive in upgrading that
46:22position should there be a proper opportunity there because last time i checked if you're going
46:26to have the payroll if the mets have and claim to have the aspirations that you have that means you
46:32want to be trying to put out the best product at each position and league average at your catching
46:36spot isn't necessarily doing that so i think that when we look at stearns's job i really think that
46:43this this is make a break for him in 2027 and i think the same applies with alvarez having a
46:48future
46:48in new york and if he can still be viewed as that long-term option i i think it goes
46:53without saying but
46:54we're going to find out one way or another if he's not traded somehow some way in a john hayman
46:59fashion which john would love that we talked with him a couple months ago on um this is going to
47:05all in all be a fascinating offseason for the mets but catcher is not nearly as a concern for them
47:11on paper as it is in other spots i would argue yeah i don't think so i don't think so
47:15either i
47:16think for me if it was me i'd probably run things back to where where they are unless
47:22you give me a good liam hicks ish type deal that comes out there if there's a good deal where
47:27there's
47:27a player that upgrades to the needs that you want out of that position which is low strikeout rate
47:33putting balls in play the potential and the ability to be clutch because this team is trying to win
47:39in 2027 then you go do that if you believe francisco alvarez can make the improvements
47:45and fulfill the potential that we've seen in him then you allow him to play but if you don't see
47:52that potential coming or it doesn't come early in the season i think the i think the leash can't be
47:59long i think it's got to be short and i think you got to move so it's it's almost saying
48:03yes i know
48:04this sounds harsh i don't even know if you you have time if you're david stearns and company and
48:09the mets i'm putting steve cohen on this too to wait the entire 2027 season you need results from
48:14francisco alvarez he's not the only player and you need it now it's it's a big year for him it's
48:21you're
48:21right it's a big year for stearns wardy we've talked about this time and time again i think the
48:27mets have to look at all the opportunities here um and don't be deterred by comfortability is what
48:34i will say i do think alvarez deserves a chance to run it back but sometimes deserve has nothing to
48:40do
48:40with it and the opportunity is here to win and if you really are serious about winning then you have
48:45to put the best product on the field um i'm all for me personally if i'm david stearns to answer
48:51my
48:51own question i would give alvarez this chance to lose the job terrens is there in support but if it
48:58doesn't work out you got to have a plan b and be willing to pivot quickly and upgrade that if
49:03that
49:03starts the next season so we'll see i'm also with you on this wardy i i think this is a
49:08fascinating
49:08position i think it's an important position for mets fans to watch i don't think it's dire that they
49:13need to upgrade this the way i feel about first base and definitely second base right right i don't think
49:19it's dire they can play with this one but they can't play with it too long is what i'm saying
49:27you can't you can't play with you can't get too comfortable with it if the upgrade is there to be
49:32made go do it go do it and don't and don't overthink it either know what the things you want
49:39we talk
49:40we have a marker that we want and that we'd like to see the strikeouts come down that's right
49:45now if you believe alvarez can do that if you believe he's he's showing you the work
49:50rock with him until he shows you that you can't rock with him that's that's pretty much where i am
49:56all right let us know in the comments what you think what should the mets do here at the catch
50:00position are they fine do they need to upgrade who would you upgrade that's the thing i'm going to
50:04say if you're going to say the mets need to upgrade you need to do what wardy and i did
50:07give us
50:07some names who you think they should upgrade don't just say they should do it show us some names
50:12what do you think they should do that is going to do it for this edition of straight out of
50:16that is the great tyler ward aka wardy i'm dexter henry we'll catch you next week we'll talk about
50:20another position where the mets either are good or they're not we'll see you then peace