- 7 hours ago
Jeremy White is joined by Sports Anchor and Reporter for Channel 4 WIVB Carl Jones to discuss the issues with the Bills defense. Carl starts by explaining what he thinks the biggest issues in the secondary are, and he highlights the apparent confusion on the backend as a huge problem. Carl also explains why the Raiders game was the best performance by the secondary, and he emphasizes they played much more press man coverage, which plays into the strengths of their cornerbacks more.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Carl's back. All right, we got Carl Jones. Carl, you there?
00:02Yeah, I'm good now. How we doing? I'm all bad about that.
00:04That's all right. We're good, Carl.
00:05I was just saying, like, with the defense, we've seen some splash players.
00:08We've seen some positive developments individually,
00:11but the whole is not really coming together right now.
00:15So I wanted to, you know, dig into it with you.
00:17So when you watch this defense play and you watch this secondary
00:20and you're taking a look at the film, what are the problems?
00:23Where do they stem from?
00:26I mean, it's going to sound simple.
00:27The biggest thing with me is just the lack of communication.
00:30It doesn't seem like they're on one accord enough.
00:34Whether it's, you know, that first third down into the game
00:38against the Vegas Raiders where it's IGB and Max Harrison
00:41just not playing the same man coverage rep like they should have.
00:44And that's something that you hope gets fixed with more time on task.
00:48Whether it's Jalen Kilgore at the end of the game,
00:51knowing his assignment, just not getting enough depth.
00:53And I get it.
00:55NFL receivers are a little bit faster than they are in the SEC.
00:57Even if the SEC is this big, bad college conference, right?
01:01And then you can see the same thing going down to the second level
01:03with the linebackers and maybe just being a tick too slow
01:05trying to figure that stuff out.
01:07So that's the biggest difference for me is just that you're a tick too slow
01:12or just not executing the same assignment as everyone around you.
01:16And then to be quite frank with you,
01:18I also think that players just aren't winning one-on-one enough.
01:21And I think that's the more concerning part
01:24because there's no scheme in the world that there's no coach
01:27that's going to be like, hey, I'm going to help you out here.
01:29Like, hey, at some point you've got to go out there and win on your own.
01:31When you say they're not winning one-on-ones enough,
01:33if we're staying in the secondary, is that specifically just man coverage?
01:36And is that why you think the Bills are playing maybe more zone
01:39than we were sold they would?
01:41Yeah.
01:41I think Vegas is probably not the best example
01:45because I thought they did actually a really good job in one-on-one.
01:48I mean, Christian Benford was outstanding.
01:50I think IGB had probably his most productive game of the year.
01:54But, I mean, leading up to that game, yes,
01:56I don't think that they were winning enough one-on-ones.
01:58And that goes back to the linebackers and safeties too,
02:01not just the cornerbacks and man coverage.
02:02I think everyone across the board weren't winning enough one-on-one matchups.
02:06So, is the fix, you mentioned time on task,
02:10is that going to get the job done?
02:11Or do you feel like Tredavious White is an important piece here
02:15and maybe another safety, if there's a market for a safety at the deadline,
02:19do you feel like the personnel will need the upgrade in addition to the time on task?
02:25Yeah, I tweeted earlier this week that I don't think just the bye week will be enough.
02:29I do think they need to make structural changes.
02:31And I think that comes from two perspectives.
02:33One, you mentioned upgrade from somewhere else,
02:37whether it is a Shaq Thompson, a Tredavious White,
02:41a safety that's not in the building,
02:42or maybe, you know, Jalen Kilgore getting up to speed,
02:45maybe a Jordan Hancock getting up to speed.
02:47I do think that you need to see someone else out there just
02:49because there are certain plays, once again,
02:51that I don't think schematics are going to change.
02:53And then another thing that I think could help,
02:56and Jim Leonard kind of peeled back the curtain a little bit
02:58on what he's been thinking with this,
03:00the word simple.
03:01How often, Jeremy, are we seeing when an offense of player goes in motion
03:06or a shift happens and everyone on the defense does the palms up thing?
03:09Where it's like, hey, hey, what's going on?
03:11What's the call?
03:11What's the check?
03:12And I feel like at the moment there's just information overload
03:16where there's just a lot going on.
03:18And one way to help out is just to simple it down a little bit.
03:21Something like, hey, we don't need a check for every single motion
03:26or shift that the offense does, one way to help out your defensive guys
03:31is just saying, you know what, set it and forget it.
03:33We're going to play what we play.
03:34And then as time goes on, maybe we bring that stuff back.
03:38Channel 4's Carl Jones.
03:39Carl, you know, you mentioned Jim Leonard.
03:41He kind of clued us in that this might be a process, right?
03:46He said that the vision might not come to full picture until year two,
03:52which I think is a totally reasonable thing when you're installing a defense.
03:55You jump on a team.
03:56You don't have every single person that you might want for that defense.
04:00But do you think it's maybe he's caught by surprise by how bad it is this early?
04:05Oh, yeah.
04:05I mean, there's no way that you make the change with the idea,
04:09yeah, we're going to be bottom three bad.
04:11Like, we're going to be bottom five bad.
04:15And I think a big tell for the fact that Jim Leonard maybe this is a little bit
04:21more of a difficult task than he would have assumed,
04:25they've lived in two different worlds in terms of how they play in a secondary.
04:29There's been certain games where they've been exclusively zone coverage,
04:33where you see the Rams game Monday night for the first three quarters.
04:36They're just basically off coverage and keeping everything in front of them.
04:39Jim Leonard kind of alluded to that.
04:41Joe Brady did as well, where, hey,
04:42we didn't want to get beat over the top.
04:44But then in that fourth quarter in overtime, they were a lot more aggressive.
04:47So, like, somewhere within that game, he said, you know what?
04:50I want to give our guys more trust.
04:51And then Vegas, I know the Vegas receivers aren't great,
04:54so it's hard to really say is this a game plan-specific thing
04:57or is this how they want to go going forward?
04:59But they were in their grill, snap in and snap out.
05:02So even he, I still is trying to figure out how to tinker
05:05and know his personnel best because there hasn't been really any consistency
05:09in how he's calling things over there.
05:11With safety, Cole Bishop, I thought, had a really strong game against the Raiders,
05:16maybe his best of the season.
05:17Seeing him kind of be that difference maker again has been a welcome sight
05:21because it feels like in the secondary there's been a lot of stuff that's really lost.
05:24With C.J. Gardner-Johnson out for a week for suspension, will they miss him?
05:30Are you on the side of they should cut bait and just do something else there?
05:34I don't think he's been playing particularly well to this point,
05:37whether it's missed tackles, maybe not executing the call in the huddle.
05:42Once again, not in the huddle, but there's times where you can use context clues
05:46and be like, hmm, I don't know if 22 posts to be over there.
05:50I do think that they could just use some steadying, a calmer heartbeat.
05:56And that's probably something that we know that DeMar Hamlin can provide.
06:01Obviously, he has his limitations and stuff that holds him back.
06:04But one thing, as you know about DeMar Hamlin, he's going to know his assignment.
06:07He's going to know what's called on the whiteboard.
06:09And from that perspective, that can have a trickle-down effect to everyone else
06:13because we have enough evidence to suggest with Cole Bishop
06:16that he is someone that is at his best when he's comfortable,
06:19when he's not thinking too much.
06:21And, I mean, it's not as easy to say that once C.J. Gardner-Johnson left the lineup,
06:26Cole Bishop played well because Cole had two pass breakups
06:29when C.J. was out there.
06:30But I think that it is fair to say that if three is next to him going forward
06:36for a couple weeks, I'm not saying the entire season.
06:38I don't think anyone should suggest that.
06:40But you would see improved play, not just with 24, but other players around them.
06:45Carl Jones on the Bills here.
06:46All right, Carl, to the front and what's happening on the defensive line.
06:50To me, this is kind of the funny thing about watching the Bills this year.
06:53We've wanted for years to have game-wreckers up front, and they finally have at least one,
06:59maybe two, in Deion Walker and Greg Rousseau.
07:03And that has happened, and yet the back end has fallen apart.
07:07Like, I feel like if you had had this Deion Walker and this Greg Rousseau,
07:10Rousseau's job's a little bit different.
07:12A part of previous Bills' defenses, I might have a really good defense.
07:15So, how do they get better results while still harnessing what has happened up front?
07:21Because Walker's emergence and Rousseau's season have been, obviously, great developments.
07:28If they had 96 and this version of 15 last year, they get past Denver.
07:33They get past Denver, and then, obviously, we saw the version of Drake May in the postseason.
07:38We know where that story ends for the Buffalo Bills.
07:41I do think that you have to lean into, if you're the Buffalo Bills,
07:45to the strengths of your guys on the back end.
07:47You have a rookie out there in IGB who is still green in some areas,
07:51but one thing that he's done from day one, even at his days at Ohio State,
07:56is press man bumper run coverage.
07:57So, I think that you lean into that.
07:59You saw it against the Vegas Raiders.
08:00You saw a little bit of it against the Rams as well,
08:03where he wasn't fearful of Pukul Nakua or Devontae Adams running past him.
08:07So, you lean into that.
08:08Christian Benford can obviously do it as well.
08:11I think that when you have those corners on the outside who are doing a little bit more bump and
08:15run,
08:15it causes the quarterback to hiccup a little bit longer, one more half of a beat,
08:19and now that allows a 96.
08:21And Ed Oliver, if and when he returns to the lineup.
08:24Greg Russo, obviously, was doing fantastic things.
08:27I think we have enough evidence, or at least Jim Leonard has enough evidence,
08:30to know the personnel.
08:31You know, I think the tinkering period, the filling out period of who does what well,
08:36it's not over, but you have enough of a sample size to be like,
08:38okay, let's lean into this and let's see what happens going forward.
08:42Carl Jones on the Bills.
08:43So, it's the bye week.
08:44Five and one.
08:46Is it sustainable like this?
08:48That's been the big question, right?
08:49Like, is this way that they've been winning, in your opinion, sustainable?
08:53Because it does ask a lot of the offense, which has been great,
08:56and it asks a lot of your quarterback, who has mostly been great.
09:01Do you feel like it's sustainable enough to go where?
09:04Is there a cap to it for you?
09:07In the regular season, I mean, you'll find enough weeks where enough fluky stuff happens
09:14to where, yes, I think you can have some lopsided units and get far.
09:19I just don't think it's sustainable for the postseason.
09:21And I've said this ad nauseum, Jeremy, and I'll say it again to anyone who's listening.
09:26The Bills are bottom five right now defensively.
09:29If they can get to just like 21st, I would feel so much better.
09:33You don't need to be the Seahawks from last year or the Eagles
09:36or even this iteration of the Chiefs where they've been top 10
09:39ever since they got rid of Tyreek Hill.
09:41You remember those early Chiefs teams?
09:43Those defenses were always 18th, 19th, 21.
09:46How about the Brady-Gronk teams with Edelman?
09:50I know they had the defense that shut out the Rams in the Super Bowl,
09:53but that team that lost to the Eagles in the Super Bowl, that defense was bad.
09:57How about the team that lost to – I mean, that beat the Falcons, that defense was bad.
10:01If they can just get to an acceptable level where it's just regular bad
10:06or even just below average, I think that it would be the most complete team of football,
10:11even if it's not as – even as like two top 10 units.
10:15All right, Carl.
10:16You going to go to the Syracuse game this weekend?
10:18Syracuse in town on Saturday?
10:20I'm not going to be able to make it.
10:22I've got my eyes on the 7th.
10:25I think it's Clemson.
10:27I think I've got my eyes on the Clemson game.
10:28All right, very good.
10:29I'll represent at Key Bank Center for the Orange.
10:32Thanks as always.
10:32We'll talk soon.
10:33Thanks, Carl.
10:35Thank you for having me.
10:36Carl Jones on our Western Hotline of Channel 4.
10:38On the Bills defense, is it sustainable?
10:41That's everybody's question, right?
10:42Josh Allen, the favorite probably for MVP.
10:44He and Brock Purdy.
10:47Yesterday, Joe Calley asked the question, like, are the Niners far and away the best team?
10:52That was like the first part of the question, which I don't know.
10:56I don't know who the best team is.
10:58It's still early, right?
11:00The Chiefs look great, but maybe not great.
11:04They are undefeated, and they have wins over some bad teams.
11:07The Bills look pretty good.
11:09They have wins over teams I think are going to be good, even though the Rams are 2-4.
11:13I think that's a tough team to beat.
11:15They beat, you know, they beat the Lions.
11:18They beat the Texans.
11:19I know the Texans have kind of bounced back lately, and they have a bad record to look at,
11:23but I think the Texans are a tough team.
11:24So, you know, I just don't think the Bills' schedule looks weak.
11:30I think they've got some good wins.
11:31They've stacked some good wins.
11:32And their next one will be Baltimore, which we'll see if it's going to be Lamar Jackson
11:36or if it's going to be a backup quarterback in there.
11:38But I think the Bills look about the same as most years with some things on the defense
11:44kind of, like, mixed around.
11:45They are weaker here and stronger here and weaker there and stronger there.
11:49And all I've really wanted from them is to get a game record, to get, you know,
11:53the defense that they had with one more game record added to it.
11:58And I think they do have the game record in Deion Walker, potentially.
12:04Watch this film each and every week.
12:05Watch him on the game.
12:06He dominates.
12:07There's a lot to love.
12:08The problem is they found that and they lost the back end.
12:12So if they can get things, you know, together, maybe we'll see this defense round into form.
12:17And, you know, off we go.
12:19Baltimore's up next.
12:20Tonight, the Patriots and the Bears.
12:23And whichever team wins this game, it's a good win.
12:26Like, it's a good Thursday night matchup.
12:29Cross conference, good teams, Super Bowl contenders.
12:35Bears, who has a better claim as a Super Bowl contender right now?
12:38The Bears or the Patriots?
12:40I'm not totally sure.
12:42The Bears, of course, played a couple weeks without Caleb Williams.
12:46But going into the season, their coach is bullish.
12:49He wants to set the scoring record, right?
12:51And they've not put flawless performances up.
12:54They lost to Minnesota 9-3.
12:56The Bears did.
12:58And they lost to Green Bay.
12:59They got hammered in that game.
13:02So, in case Keenum played.
13:04I don't know.
13:05I don't know what to think of the Bears yet.
13:06We're going to find out a lot about the Bears between now and the Bills game.
13:10And their schedule, tonight it's New England.
13:13Beating New England at home would, to me, be a good win.
13:16And it would also be a good win for New England.
13:17After tonight, New England.
13:19The Bears go to Seattle.
13:21Then they'll play Tampa, New Orleans.
13:23Detroit, Jacksonville, Miami.
13:25Buffalo, Green Bay.
13:26Detroit again, Minnesota.
13:27So, that's a tough schedule.
13:30Coming out of the NFC North is tough.
13:31You've got to win your games that are not in that division if you want to compete for it.
13:35And that's tonight against New England.
13:37803-0550, the phone number.
13:39We've also talked a lot about the Sabres.
13:40If you want to join us on that, the Sabres lost to the Flyers last night.
13:453-1.
13:47And it was a deflating one.
13:49It was a deflating one.
13:50The goalie conversation is, I do agree, like, we got into it with Paul this morning.
13:55I absolutely do agree.
13:56And, Owen, you've been on this too.
13:57Like, that the spotlight and the conversation around Lukanen, it would, let's say this,
14:04it would be the same to me if Lukanen had been hurt and Lyon was in for all these games,
14:10we'd be saying, where's Hellebuck?
14:12I really do believe that.
14:14Oh, yeah.
14:14I think that's right.
14:15Like, it's not specific to the player.
14:17It's the results they're getting in the net.
14:19Right.
14:19And maybe we'd be saying, well, Lukanen's coming back and he's signed to a longer contract.
14:24Maybe that's the only thing that's different is that the guy that's waiting in the wings
14:28isn't on a one-year deal.
14:30But last year, they were equally good.
14:32Yeah.
14:33And if the guy, whoever it is, was playing right now, was doing this, I think you'd have
14:37a lot of, why don't they go out and make a move?
14:39I would, the second part of this is like, if Lukanen had been in Lyon's spot, I just,
14:46there'd be a little bit of, well, let's see when he gets here.
14:49But I just don't sense a lot of trust there before all this happened anyway.
14:53Well, I think that's, part of that is because Lyon has been around for forever and has never
15:00been a guy that can play 50 games.
15:02Where Lukanen, like, you've seen him play a lot and it's been pretty good.
15:07And so you can kind of hope that Lukanen can do the number one thing.
15:12I don't think anyone really believes that Lyon can be a number one goalie for a season
15:16in the NHL.
15:17He can do, he can be very effective in a platoon or in a, you know, a backup role, but
15:23he's, he's proven to not be a starter year over year in the NHL.
15:28And so that I think is different.
15:30I think the Lukanen, like, I think you're right.
15:33If this was swapped and it was Lyon, we'd still be getting the calls about Hellebuck.
15:37I don't think that the vitriol would be the same that it is with Lukanen because I think
15:42Lukanen has done this to Sabres fans for years now.
15:48Yeah.
15:48It has been, that game last night, I've said this three times this year already, that game
15:53last night happens all the time with him where he's like, he's not that bad, but then there's
15:57a goal that goes in that's awful at a horrible time and it breaks the game.
16:02And like, that is a habit that you see year after year after year, like we've seen with
16:10Lukanen that will wear you down and I think that's where everybody's at.
16:14And that's why I said, you know, two games into the year, like, I think he's done here.
16:18I don't think he can do anything.
16:19Everybody knows there are plenty of instances in life where the person that you're yelling
16:23at, the person you're mad at, the person you're in a heated moment with, it's not
16:27their fault.
16:27You know, the person at the, at the counter at a rental car company, you might, might've
16:31been something else that bothered you earlier.
16:33Sorry, I'm not mad at you here, but my frustration's coming out on this part and for Lukanen, he's
16:38just standing in the spot where all the frustration for any Sabres fan would be just focused on.
16:43Right.
16:44If this rumor had bubbled up this week about Hellebuck, I don't think it would sound like
16:48this.
16:48It's been June.
16:49Yes.
16:50It's been since mid June, early June.
16:52And it's just been like this, you know, anything ever happened with this?
16:58Yeah.
16:58Yeah.
16:58I, I, so I tend to agree with like, when we got into that with Paul, that Lukanen is
17:02getting a raw deal.
17:03I agree with that.
17:04I totally do.
17:05But that doesn't mean that he should continue being their goaltender.
17:07Right.
17:07Yep.
17:08Like both things can be true that he is being treated unfairly by the fan base.
17:12I think that's absolutely right.
17:13He is not as bad as everybody says he is, but that doesn't mean he's not bad.
17:19Like there is room there for both things to be right.
17:22Yeah.
17:23And I think that's where we're at is that he is costing them games and he is hurting
17:27them actively almost every time he gets in the net, but people act like he is like
17:32taking a torch to Rasmus Dahlin at center ice.
17:35Right.
17:35Like that's not quite what's happening here.
17:37But it's, you know, it's not good.
17:40It's a very, it's a terrible situation.
17:44It's terrible.
17:45Yeah.
17:45It's not.
17:46It's.
17:47It's making me think that like, should they have seen that coming and like found, even
17:53if it wasn't Hellebuck, something to do with him that wasn't going to put him and them in
17:58this position?
17:59Does it, does it not make me feel a little irresponsible to not have like squashed it?
18:03Yeah.
18:03To not have let it gotten to this point.
18:06I mean, you could do that.
18:07And would people believe you again?
18:08You could, they could just say that and still behind the scenes if it leaks out.
18:13I mean, Jarmo flat out said when he talked to us on Tuesday, he hates these things being
18:16reported.
18:17Of course.
18:17He hates hearing about them.
18:19But you're not going to stop it.
18:20Right.
18:21It's going to happen.
18:22It's the way the whole thing works.
18:24Yeah.
18:26And what, so you have to, you have to act with that in mind.
18:30You can't pretend it doesn't exist.
18:33It does.
18:34And he knows that.
18:35And he, he knows why you asked the question you asked him that day.
18:38That's why he's talked like that.
18:40Yeah.
18:40So like, that is, that is his way of addressing it.
18:44And I'm just wondering if maybe they needed to address it by just not allowing it to happen
18:48like this.
18:49It, it, it, it really just, it feels really ugly and it's getting to a point where I'm
18:54out where it feels unnecessary.
18:56Like move, find something to do.
18:59803-0550.
19:00The phone number.
19:02Football tonight.
19:03Baseball tomorrow.
19:05Yep.
19:05Baseball tomorrow.
19:07That Joe had the story about the timeless ticket and going through all the twists and
19:13turns of that.
19:14I did, I did think about something because I read that the Brewers, again, someone's joking
19:20like they're cursed now.
19:20Now, this, this timeless ticket debacle that the Brewers have picked up is bad karma.
19:28So in 2015, the team offered a $1,000 ticket that could be exchanged for any future game,
19:34right?
19:34That's the, the baseline of it.
19:37Purchasers could redeem that ticket for the best available seat locations subject to ticket
19:42availability at the time of redemption.
19:47So you got a timeless ticket whenever there's seats available.
19:50If there's, if there's seats available, you can do that.
19:53And a guy, you, you know how this always goes.
19:56Someone's going to go to the news and says, this is what's happening.
19:58Hey, it's going to be the best available seats.
20:00You're getting the priority just behind season ticket holders.
20:02Anything the season ticket holders don't have, you'll have dibs at it for the world series.
20:07That's the story they sold, which by the way, maybe people around here are a little sensitive
20:12to, Hey, you know, I was sold on this particular idea and maybe it's not what it exactly was.
20:20Obstructed seats.
20:21Anyway, that these ticket holders are saying we were sold that this idea, I can exchange
20:26it.
20:27And instead they're given like 400 level or standing room only.
20:29Anyway, blah, blah, blah.
20:30To me, I like to think about what would we be doing in this scenario?
20:34What would we be saying?
20:36It might be that Brewers fans are mad at the people with the timeless tickets because
20:40stop bringing negative juju.
20:43We're about to start the world series.
20:45This is supposed to be a celebration.
20:46Yeah.
20:47Which to me was similar to when the obstructed seat thing happened at the stadium.
20:50People that didn't have the obstructed seats were annoyed at the existence of them.
20:54Stop complaining.
20:54This place is beautiful.
20:55Right.
20:56So I wonder if in Milwaukee, it's a lot of telling the timeless ticket people to like, shut
21:00it.
21:01I don't care.
21:02That'd be, that would feel lame to me.
21:04I know.
21:04Cause those people, but you're ruining my party.
21:07I'm in the world series for the first time since 1982.
21:09Right.
21:09But I spent a thousand dollars a decade ago because I thought maybe one day I'll get this
21:14and it's here.
21:16I finally made it.
21:17My, my long-term bet paid off.
21:19I hit.
21:20Now I get to go to the world series and sit, you know, on the first baseline on the third
21:25row.
21:26And it's going to be incredible.
21:27And I get to see my team go play in the world series.
21:30And now you don't.
21:31Yeah.
21:32Like that's, that's really tough.
21:35I think that if, if you're a fan of the brewers that doesn't sympathize with those people,
21:39you're probably, I mean, I get it.
21:42You're in the world series.
21:43You don't want any bad juju, but I just been worried about the timeless ticket.
21:47I would maybe if you lose, if you lose, it's the timeless ticket curse.
21:50I would maybe blame the team for making the decision they made, not the people complaining
21:53about it.
21:54We'll get some calls in.
21:54We've got shots of audio to get to as well.
21:56Brought to you by outlet liquor.
21:58When you need to stock up, it's the place to buy a case.
22:00What's your outlet?
22:01Joe Kelly, uh, collect some sound.
22:03We'll react to it.
22:03It's all coming up here on WGR.